Islam Vs Qadiyani Religion Face To Face Live Debate

Live debate between Sunni and Ahmadiyya representatives on whether Hazrat Isa (AS) is alive in the heavens with his earthly body.

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Key Takeaways

The debate is a respectful academic exercise focusing on a key theological question within Islam.
Both Sunni and Ahmadiyya perspectives are presented with reliance on primary Islamic texts.
Strict rules ensure decorum, sincerity, and focus on evidence-based arguments.
The question of Hazrat Isa's (AS) status in the heavens remains contested with differing interpretations.
The debate format and source restrictions aim to maintain fairness and clarity.

What the video covers

The debate focuses on the question: Is Hazrat Isa (AS) alive in the heavens with his earthly body according to the Quran and authentic hadiths?
Sheikh Assar Rashid represents Sunni Muslims, while Razul Naman Sahib represents the Ahmadiyya Muslim Jamaat.
The debate strictly uses sources from the Holy Quran, Sahih al-Bukhari, and Sahih Muslim, with scholarly authentication of narrators allowed.
Both parties agreed to maintain respect, avoid abusive language, and adhere to the debate topic without personal attacks.
The format includes introductions, opening statements, rebuttals, and closing statements with strict time limits.
The moderator is a neutral individual from the Ahmadiyya Muslim Jamaat.
The debate emphasizes ikhlas (sincerity) and assuming the best of others in pursuit of truth.
Publication of continuous excerpts is permitted, but mixing non-contiguous sections to misrepresent arguments is prohibited.
The discussion excludes the topic of the descent (Nuzul) of the Messiah, which may be addressed in future debates.
Both sides present arguments based on Quranic verses and hadiths to support their theological positions.

Chapters

What is the main topic of this debate?

The debate centers on whether Hazrat Isa (AS) is alive in the heavens with his earthly body according to the Quran and authentic hadith narrations.

Who are the participants in this debate?

Sheikh Assar Rashid represents Sunni Muslims, and Razul Naman Sahib represents the Ahmadiyya Muslim Jamaat.

What sources are allowed to be cited during the debate?

Only the Holy Quran, Sahih al-Bukhari, Sahih Muslim, and statements made by the opposing party are permitted as sources.

Full Transcript — Download SRT & Markdown

Speaker A

Amen. Wasam. For, and who is better in speech than he who invites men to Allah and does good works and says, "I'm surely of those who submit." And good and evil are not alike. Repel evil with that which is best. And though he between whom and thyself was enmity will become as though he were a warm friend. But none is granted it save those who are steadfast, and none is granted it save those who possess a large share of good.

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best. And though he between whom and thyself was enmity, will become as though he were a warm friend. But none is granted it save those who are steadfast. and none is granted it save those who possess a large share of good

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And if an incitement from Satan incite thee, then seek refuge in Allah. Surely He is all hearing and all knowing. Our beloved master Muhammad, sallallahu alayhi wasallam, said to us, he said, "By Allah, if Allah gives guidance to somebody through you, it is better for you than possessing red camels." Based on this above prophetic principle of inviting others to Allah the Almighty, I welcome all of you and all those who are listening online to this debate, discussion, or dialogue, whatever you would like to call it, with

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for you than possessing red camels. Based on this above prophetic principle of inviting others to Allah the Almighty, I welcome all of you and all those who are listening online to this debate, discussion or dialogue whatever you would like to call it with

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Assalamu alaykum. I must make it clear this is an academic exercise conducted in a spirit of mutual respect, goodwill, and most importantly ikhlas, which is sincerity in the pursuit of truth. It provides an opportunity for both parties to respectfully present

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their evidence, arguments and perspectives in support of their respective positions. I ask that all participants and members whether in here or around the world that are listening listen attentively, maintain decorum and engage with the discussion in a respectful and constructive manner. I

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their evidence, arguments, and perspectives in support of their respective positions. I ask that all participants and members, whether in here or around the world that are listening, listen attentively, maintain decorum, and engage with the discussion in a respectful and constructive manner. I

Speaker A

So the debate topic which is the most important thing which should keep people should keep in mind. The debate topic is is hazatam alive in the heavens with his earthly body according to the holy Quran and the authentic a hadith narrations of

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will now read out the conditions and agreed rules that was signed by Muhammad Ibrahim Sahib from the Ahmadiyya Muslim Jamaat and Assar Rashid Sahib, which is accepted and signed by both parties.

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Clarifications. The debate is not onul which is the descent of the Messiah. Although such a discussion may be held at a future date. The only sources that may be cited during the debate are the holy Quran, the narrations of Sahil al

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So the debate topic, which is the most important thing which people should keep in mind, the debate topic is: Is Hazrat Isa (AS) alive in the heavens with his earthly body according to the Holy Quran and the authentic ahadith narrations of

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course, for the purpose of authenticating narrators or discussing particular narrations, scholars may be cited to to present what they have written regarding those mentioned in the chain of narrations.

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Sahih al-Bukhari and Sahih Muslim? I must repeat it again so that people understand what the topic is. Is Hazrat Isa (AS) alive in the heavens with his earthly body according to the Holy Quran and the authentic narrations of Sahih al-Bukhari and Sahih Muslim?

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other party's religious group. Debaters Sheikh Assar Rashid Sahib shall represent the Sunni Muslims who regard their Imam Ahmed Alisha Rahmedi and Imadah Muajir Maki among the Mujadin Razula Naman Sahib Razul Sahib shall represent the Ahmedia Muslim Jamaat again conduct no abusive language shall

Speaker A

Clarifications: The debate is not on Nuzul, which is the descent of the Messiah, although such a discussion may be held at a future date. The only sources that may be cited during the debate are the Holy Quran, the narrations of Sahih al-Bukhari, the narrations of Sahih Muslim, statements made by the opposing party. For example, if an opponent has made a particular statement, it may be cited and relied upon in response. Arguments should be based on decisive known asala evidence from the Quran and ahadith. Of

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acknowledge that from us sahib the debaters shall conduct themselves at all times in accordance with the principle of which is of course insuming assuming the best of others. Research material can be used from paperbased research material digital research material uh

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course, for the purpose of authenticating narrators or discussing particular narrations, scholars may be cited to present what they have written regarding those mentioned in the chain of narrations.

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other party. Publication of the of of debate content. The publication of contiguous excerpts from the debate shall be permitted.

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Now, as I've said about the topic, both parties agree to adhere to this debate topic and focus on answering it directly. Neither party shall deviate from the topic or engage in attacks upon the character of the leaders of the

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for today is me shall be neutral individual from the Ahmedia Muslim Jamaat as agreed by Sheikh Assar Rashid.

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other party's religious group. Debaters Sheikh Assar Rashid Sahib shall represent the Sunni Muslims who regard their Imam Ahmed Alisha Rahmedi and Imamah Mujaddid Maki among the Mujaddidun. Razul Naman Sahib Razul Sahib shall represent the Ahmadiyya Muslim Jamaat. Again, no abusive language shall

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Basis of the debate in accordance with the methodology of sunnah. The arguments advanced by each party shall be based first and foremost upon the holy Quran.

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be used before, during, or after the debate. And I must acknowledge that there was a thumbnail put up and I contacted Assar Rashid Sahib and it was removed, which was not in line with the conditions. So I must, you know,

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already that that doesn't need to be mentioned but I think for for for listeners it may be beneficial that shehar rashid will bring nine participants ahmed jamaat may bring up to nine participants and in addition to these participants the ahmed musim

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acknowledge that from us. Sahib, the debaters shall conduct themselves at all times in accordance with the principle of ikhlas, of course, assuming the best of others. Research material can be used from paper-based research material, digital research material, with internet access. If you have recording and live streaming, each party shall have the opportunity to record and live stream the debate through its respective channels, which is being done right now. Neither party shall be permitted to use the live stream of the

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The debate shall consist of introduction which will be for seven minutes from each side. Opening statements 25 minutes, rebuttals 10 minutes from each side, then 5 minutes from each side, then the closing statement which is I believe it 10 10 10 minutes, right?

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other party. Publication of the debate content: The publication of contiguous excerpts from the debate shall be permitted.

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introduction, opening statements, rebuttals and closing statements is as I've told you introduction which is 7 minutes includes each debater shall be given 7 minutes to introduce their beliefs for the benefit of the audience as many non-Muslims will be watching and

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Excerpts compiled from multiple non-contiguous sections shall not be permitted, meaning you cannot mix up different sections and make up a video from it misrepresenting what the person is saying. The moderator, which is

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arguments shall be presented on the question of whether Isaat wasam is alive or dead. During this section, each party should clearly state its position and identity and identify the sources upon which it in it it intends to rely upon.

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for today is me, shall be a neutral individual from the Ahmadiyya Muslim Jamaat as agreed by Sheikh Assar Rashid.

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Then for following the introduction the debate shall commence. Again the topic is being repeated. Isat wasam alive in the heavens with his earthly body according to the holy Quran and authentic hadith of the holy prophetam from sahkari and sah Muslim format.

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Inshallah, the moderator shall be impartial, trustworthy, fair, and not display any bias towards either party.

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sequence is assar then rail numan then 10 minutes rebuttal from um then 10 minutes rebuttal from rajula nman then 5 minutes rebuttal from then 5 minute rebuttal from rajula naman then 10-minut closing statement with no new arguments and similarly from Laman 10-minute

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Basis of the debate in accordance with the methodology of Sunnah: The arguments advanced by each party shall be based first and foremost upon the Holy Quran,

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inshallah have a 10 minutes break. 10 to 12 minutes you know to give each speaker some time to have water or use washroom if if needed. Then after that there is a cross- examination of 30 minutes. Each party shall ask five questions.

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then the Sunnah of Muhammad sallallahu alayhi wasallam and his ahadith. For the purpose of this debate, only ahadith contained in Sahih al-Bukhari and Sahih Muslim shall be permitted as evidence, and we had agreed before, I think that's

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Muslim shall continue to apply throughout the cross- examination. The order of questions will begin with sheh then to and then it ends with asking sahib.

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already that doesn't need to be mentioned, but I think for listeners it may be beneficial that Sheikh Rashid will bring nine participants, Ahmadiyya Jamaat may bring up to nine participants, and in addition to these participants, the Ahmadiyya Muslim

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Ahmed Muslim jamat. At the end we will allow um four questions to be asked from each side inshallah. So both uh no back and forth interaction. So the one of the most important thing here is that you're asking a question from both sides.

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Jamaat may bring a small number of personnel for catering and technical support. Now the debate format:

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at the end Ibrahim Sahib shall deliver a vote of thanks to Shikhar and other distinguished guests inshallah. So these were the conditions.

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The debate shall consist of introduction, which will be for seven minutes from each side. Opening statements, 25 minutes, rebuttals, 10 minutes from each side, then 5 minutes from each side, then the closing statement, which is, I believe, 10, 10, 10 minutes, right?

Speaker A

Yes. You have seven minutes start. I would just want to say to Razi to pay attention.

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Yeah. Yes. And then at the end, we'll have questions from the audience. And if both sides agree, Assar, we can also take questions from online if people want to ask certain questions, and we have time, we can also do that. So

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and the likes of Arabi when they mention that all prophets are lawgiving that means that he believed that and the rul are all lawgiving and the finality of the prophets is the prophet sallallahu alaihi wasallam. He just made a

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introduction, opening statements, rebuttals, and closing statements is as I've told you. Introduction, which is 7 minutes, includes each debater shall be given 7 minutes to introduce their beliefs for the benefit of the audience as many non-Muslims will be watching and

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emphasize the new is because the arrival of we do not see it as a violation of if a prophet was alive today who came from prior to the time of the prophet Muhammad sallallahu alaihi wasallam it would not violate

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many Muslims may not be familiar with the positions represented or the significance of the topic. Each party may explain its fundamental beliefs drawing upon the Holy Quran and ahadith as it sees fit. No

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clear is that we believe the raising of body and soul the is proven from and has it is proven decisively in Quran the bodily ascension of body and soul and this was the of the Muslims for over 1300 years. That is our

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arguments shall be presented on the question of whether Isa (AS) is alive or dead. During this section, each party should clearly state its position and identity and identify the sources upon which it intends to rely.

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purpose as agreed the citation will only be from al- Bkari and Muslim. With regard to the issue of mo the our position on that is that the jam held the position that sadam did not taste death at the time of the ascension.

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Each party may also explain its understanding of Nuzul al-Masih, the descent of the Messiah, so that the audience is properly informed.

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our of you is based upon firstly on our is based upon the rejection of the of the ascension of which we say is proven from and our of you is based upon the of it's not actually based on the

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Then following the introduction, the debate shall commence. Again, the topic is being repeated: Is Isa (AS) alive in the heavens with his earthly body according to the Holy Quran and authentic hadith of the Holy Prophet (SAW) from Sahih al-Bukhari and Sahih Muslim format.

Speaker A

ascension of and the descent ofatam. Now our belief is proven that is our that is our dawa. When you do the when you counter my dawa, you would need to counter the and regarding with regard to the mo have made our

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Again, I'll repeat: opening statement after the introduction, of course, 25 minutes each, then the rebuttal of 10 minutes, then 5 minutes of the second rebuttal, then there's a closing statement. Sheikh Assar shall begin as the claimant as the mud and

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the scholars across the board even though for today's debate we are not citing scholars we are only citing al Quran and the hadith so with regard to the ascension of that is proven from ayatanim of Of course I am not presenting this as a

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the sequence is Assar, then Rail Numan, then 10 minutes rebuttal from, then 10 minutes rebuttal from Rajula Numan, then 5 minutes rebuttal from, then 5 minute rebuttal from Rajula Numan, then 10-minute closing statement with no new arguments and similarly from Laman 10-minute

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Now of course the althood of alquran where Allah subhanahu wa ta'ala remember the ascension is mentioned in three principle ayat uh the ayah of the ayah of and the ay ofah with regard to the ayah inah and for their denial and outrageous

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closing statement. So you basically bring in whatever you mentioned and you summarize it for the audience. Questions may be paused during a speaker's allotted time. However, the opposing party shall respond only during its own allotted time. After this you will

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appear so. Even those who argue for this crucifixion are in doubt. They have no knowledge whatsoever. Only making assumptions. They certainly did not kill him. And then Allah subhana wa ta'ala says and rather Allah raised him. We take

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Inshallah have a 10-minute break, 10 to 12 minutes, you know, to give each speaker some time to have water or use the washroom if needed. Then aft

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Every one of the people of the book will definitely believe in him before his death and on the day of judgment Jesus will be a witness against them. Aside from this there are other ayat of course the ayat which will be under

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scrutiny which is the uh the scrutiny of the understanding not the eye itself. that indeed I am raising you meaning is to myself and the the ayah states this that taking you completely and raising you this is also the ayah inah so Ali

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Imran sorry I believe my time has finished you ready Yeah. Stop. I want to first request all of you to pray that inshallah after this debate is guided to the true Islam. Amen.

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Alhamdulillah I belong to the Ahmedia Muslim community and we believe hazat mehmed is the promised messiah and Imam Mahi raised within the ummah of our master hazat Muhammad sallahu alaihi wasallam in complete obedience to him. I want to

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summarize our beliefs in the words of hazat immediat whose hands the faith was perfected and the bounty was completed through which by treading the straight path a person can reach God Almighty. We believe with absolute certainty that the Holy Quran

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is the last of the heavenly books and that not a word or vowel point of its laws and limits and commandments can be added to or subtracted from. No revelation can now be received from God which can have the effect of modifying

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or abregating the commandments of the Holy Quran or of changing any single one of its directions. We honor the we love the Sahabah. Believe in the five pillars of Islam, the six articles of faith. We believe in we're against practices like

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of course Assar promotes that we believe we are and we believe in you also claim you believe in the real difference here is is that you brothers believe the prophet sallallahu alaihi wasallam is but unfortunately you believe that aam

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will come after and believe it or not your teachings contain the belief that through him certain commands would also be abregated. On the other hand, we believe according has died. He will never return and I will inshallah prove this from the Quran

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today and the ofas will remain Tokyama. So we believe in but unfortunately our brothers on the other side they believe a nabi will come. This actually breaks the now if we prove today from Dala that has died and

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he will never return then all of the a hadith of you have to rethink them and if you focus on them you would know that your interpretation contradicts the Quran those hadiths are clear that this messiah would be imum he would be from

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the Muslims who's given the title of now the question is can it be established fromal the is alive with this earthly body in disguise today. This is the question. You have to prove it from the Quran. Now, obviously the judge between

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us is the Quran, right? The Quran, theam of Allah and also the prophet Muhammad.

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We believe in our master. We believe in because he believed it. His Sahabah believed it. We will prove it from Quran and Bkari. Now we when we look at prophecies brothers, hazata was prophesied. Jews rejected him. They still pray for him. They rejected him.

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Why? The Jews understood like Allah says they recognize the prophet sallallahu alaihi wasallam yet they denied him.

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Why? Because they were adamant on taking literal interpretations of the prophecies and they denied the prophets.

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Till today Jews are waiting for hazatam. So today we are sticking to Quran Bkari Sahi Muslim and Asid in your opening you mentioned a few things. Our focus today is the word tawi. We both accept the tawi of hazatam has happened. You have

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to prove the meaning from Quran bkari muslim. Your meaning of tawi you have to prove that will solve everything else in that is the solving of rafa and everything else. Number one keep this in mind. I hope you're taking notes. uh

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moderator uh he's not supposed to be addressing me in terms of what I'm I should be refuting at this point. I've done my dawa. He needs to just present his dawa.

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But you know when you started you said Razi pay attention. Yeah you're paying attention doesn't mean that I won't address him now. I apologize.

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No not addressing me that's not an issue. The issue is that you know he needs to present just your belief. He doesn't need to tell me what I need to prove today except when his rebuttal comes.

Speaker A

That's fine. In our conditions, it says that we should mention our da'wah clearly. Yeah, mention your da'wah. But meaning focusing on tawi is not the main contention for me cuz I've just said that our da is whatever you do is is

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your prerogative. Yes, but the dawa is on and on. Okay. Because I've just said we don't do of you based upon that's momentarily. That's all explained.

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I think we should uh you can continue but I'm appealing to the moderator. Yes.

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Yeah. Continue. Okay. So, in his opening he said many things. So, unfortunately he had to cut me off. It's quite early to start that.

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But anyhow, we believe in the Quran. Bkari Muslim and you have to prove hayatam is alive in disguise with this earthly body. Now, I'm quite disappointed at the intro because you mentioned three ayat and none are dala. In fact, we have your

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videos for example with us moderator. I wasn't presenting those the leans as a proof.

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Remember we agreed in the condition that I just present and Razi knows this very well. So now he's refuting. So he's not supposed to be refuting at this point.

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I'm appealing to the moderator here. Can you just state in your position these ayat are not?

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Okay, I'll explain cuz that's your position, right? You can state that. Yeah. So don't say you can state that. You can state the same position in a different way.

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Yeah. So three ayat of the Quran and we will prove it inshallah he isala is not he has to prove today that is alive in the skies with his earthly body otherwise if the Quran bkari Muslim do not prove your akid of then

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unfortunately that is not a ki belief of the Quran now I want to mention one important thing is that our has to be from not and the prophet sallallahu alaihi wasallam stated present my narrations upon the if I

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prove today that has died and will not return because someone said that on not on I'm not here proving died I will prove from he died and won't return inshallah from Dalala not my own you will see my interlocutor will not give

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the taps ofah sallallahu alaihi wasallam today there's nothing in Bkari nothing in Muslim nothing in the Quran that he has today I'm saying it from the start because he's already mentioned his ayat in the very beginning so he's made many

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mistakes in his intro but out of respect for him I won't call him out on that maybe in the Q&A I'll call him out at the end I just request everyone this is not based on respect. It's based on the

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conditions. I'm sticking to the conditions. But if he keeps violating the conditions, this is not what he's saying is I what you mean. What he's saying is whatever your position is in this particular session. You don't address him. State

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that position. Yeah. But if he in his interest saying we do your for this is I have to meaning that's the claim which I'm going to explain in my last claim that I'm going to establish.

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Okay. Why we do their why we do of the bis obviously we give them rights to live as Muslims right they're Muslim by name but they believe in things like in his poetry for example he says abdah so this is for us why we say you people

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are not upon true Islam not only this has violated many other teachings of Islam that's why we do fear not only this in the book it mentions the reasons is because he failed the first time.

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This is why we disagree with the side and we will see today who sticks to Bkari Muslim and like the moderator said no mi today. Let's see who has Quran and hadith on their side in time's over.

Speaker A

Just for clarification by I never said he wrote it. Yeah. So you can't describe the post guys. Can we please stick to the conditions?

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Next is 25 minutes. Can I just ask one thing moderator? I think yes it's the moderator who gets to from now on I won't interact with him. If he you two can discuss and I can discuss directly with you.

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Okay. In yes very clearly if I violate the conditions we've agreed to you can appeal to the moderator.

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The problem is we're differing for me. You see one second. One second. You know what it is? One second. You know the purpose of the introduction was simply to present your beliefs. You went towards why we do your when you went to that position in

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terms of the rejection of entails in this issue. The whole purpose of having the debate is because we make of the Jamaat. This is one of the beliefs that we make the on. I didn't mention that uh we're going to establish

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something else. I've just made it very clear this is one of the issues we make.

Speaker A

Agreed. But the introduction was just to mention your beliefs in in in terms of which you did. But when you when you said why we do your he also has the right to say why he does your No, I didn't object to that. Yes. What?

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Because at the end you mentioned as a point of I I didn't object to that. I'm I objected to rebuttals because in rebuttals in terms of proofs is for the next segment.

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But you see I didn't quote a single ayah for because it's clear in the okay guys we have to move forward just to clarity in the conditions it's clear that we can give citation to Quran and hadith that's clear in the condition.

Speaker A

Okay. Inshallah we move forward now cuz from now onwards is the is the opening statement of uh Rashid for 25 minutes.

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I'll put the time up now. Are you ready? Once you place the time up.

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Yeah. There you go. Startman. Just to make very clear, we do not believe when will return he will do of the Sharia. That is from the authority of now I will very quickly tell you some that we go by that you must not violate

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and if you do you must validate that violation. Number one, do not quote general ayat when the issue is the issue is to the issue of this is like someone quoting which is with regard to and then they

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apply that and all women and they exclude certain women like a pregnant woman for instance in this case for instance if you quote that the mushri would worship people who are dead and who are not living. That's a general ayah. There are exceptions

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that were found in the time of the prophet sallallahu alaihi wasallam. If you do this, you fall into which is a very clear fallacy. Number two, you mentional with you can never prove is it's a homonym and many meanings fall

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under that. For instance, I'll prove that from directly from Allah subhana wa ta'ala says that Allah does what? the action of the time of death and Allah subhana t says and that soul which doesn't die in its sleep that means the word is in it's a

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harmony likewise Allah subhana wa ta'ala says he is the one who does to you by night this shows that the word is utilized in other meanings this is of course proven But it was not a part of our conditions

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that you didn't want books of language to be quoted. So is you cannot prove from something which is you would have to prove it to beal. Why? Why do I say this? Becauseala the is one inala theul is one. And I would challenge you to

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even give the definition of I am giving you the definition the when the malul is one. So here then additionally there is another that is this here is and it carries out as you would have studied in your

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madrasa is when it limits theat to that particular thing where example of that which can be found in books of language which I will not give citation to because that's part of the condition that when Allah subhana wa ta'ala says

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that do they say he has madness the is not for it's for and likewise when Allah subhanahu wa ta'ala says they say Allah subhana wa tala has taken a child subh transcendent is he this bal negates everything so in the

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eye you said it's notal It is very because that ayah when Allah subhana wa ta'ala says this is because of the the is you must demonstrate it is not from and from Bkari and Muslim because you've limited it to those sources. Fourthly, the word

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this verb it comes in the meaning to transpire. It doesn't come in the meaning of death except if there's a for that for instance when Allah subhanahu wa ta'ala says the ways of the first people has transpired this is all found in the

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Arabic language. So when the ayat this ayah would mean that the messengers prior to him transpired they went and similarly it's also mentioned for where Allah subhana t says that this was revealed in the lifetime of the prophet sallallahu alaihi

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wasallam. So the question to you is does it have or if it's it would mean what the grouping of prophets it can exclude many of them if it's it would include all theatam if you go by then the prophet sallallahu

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alaihi wasallam is excluded and according to you also mah is also excluded because he would fall underul now with regard to the statement of Abuakadiki that you claim that in that is found in Bkari that you claim that proves it

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doesn't actually prove because refuting those who said the prophet sallallahu alaihi wasallam cannot taste death and he gave citation to was mentioning if the prophet sallallahu alaihi wasallam passes away or is killed killed then he was informing those Sahabah that

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it is possible that the prophet sallallahu alaihi wasallam can die. He was not referring to all the previous prophets have passed away. So this is number four that I have mentioned with regard to then number five I will mention to you

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is with regard to that I am claiming to you the original is what again I won't give citation to any books I am saying this and a second point to that ancillary to that also is that you cannot Make

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for instance in Muslim the hadith mentions that is will descend in what do you take understand to mean if you're going to make that wheel of everything it's in fact it's going to fall under the becomes something else for you and

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then becomes something else for you every single hadith you will misinterpret because you have no rules in terms of you would have to address that also now with regard to the word we take the Word here meaning we take it that Allah

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subhana wa ta'ala raised examples of where Allah subhana wa ta'ala says with regard to this now you may you have a which is that the if it's Allah subhana wa ta'ala and the one then it entails that the station is

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raised but I will tell you this that when it comes And when it comes to solid bodies, then that thing is raised like in the verse that he raised his two parents on the and for instance when he raised up the foundations of the

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B meaning and where Allah subhana wa tala ascribes to himself we raised the mountain above you. It was literally raised above or for instance where Allah subhanahu wa ta'ala says Allah subhana wa ta'ala raises the heavens without any support. All of this

Speaker A

inahkari for instance then I was raised to what all of this is. So and the rough is all the the the means that the of was and was raised bodily and soul. Similarly, you mentioned the hadith sometimes the one

Speaker A

and when we'll recite the ayah inah where says to Allah subhana wa tala that when you took me this is the meaning we take for when you took me completely says I will say the way the pious servant

Speaker A

meaning Alaihi wasallam said, I will tell you the answer to that that is of the why you you may smile at that but you know and the the here is applying to the of and the of the prophet sallallahu alaihi

Speaker A

wasallam. It's not in reference to death as you may uh presume. With regard to the Abbas which is found in the Bkari in the format form are those hadith which are found chainless. These type of chains these type of narrations do not fall

Speaker A

under the they do not fall under the that whatever is found in Bkari and Muslim chainous reports which are do not fall under that. They fall under scrutiny. But even if you find a chain for that as you may claim is in or

Speaker A

whatever there is that you will find in you will also find in that he never met Abdahbin Abbas. You will also find in the original of you will find in that also that he never met Sad Abdah Abbas.

Speaker A

people pres that he when they do authentication of the chain they say when he narrates from bin jub and when he narrates from mujah the students of abdahbas it's authentic but even if you prove that there is a a connection of

Speaker A

that particular chain even in that case scenario there is and that you find in but even if we accept that what did I just say that abdahbas his full position you will never give citation to what was his full position

Speaker A

with regard to what was his position to with regard to the raising of course that is not a part of the discussion today because it's beyond the sources of Bkari and Muslim and this is why the debate was in fact limited Bkari

Speaker A

and Muslim because we know in Bkari Muslim there's only 21 hadith over 28 Sahabah narrate the descent of Aliatam nowatam being life when Allah subhana wa ta'ala says that he will talk to people in in his junior age and in his middle age if he

Speaker A

had lived to 120 as Mira Sahib claimed and others claimed and he died in Kashmir Allah subhana wa ta'ala would have mentioned that he lived till ripe old age and he talked to people in his ripe old age which is not mentioned at

Speaker A

all exa similarly when Allah subhanana wa ta'ala says You know very clearly that when Allah subhana t says there is no one from the people of the book except they shall believe in isam prior to his death saying the goes back to you know very

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well that there is the narration of where he gives this to this ayatan now if you do based upon shashi that doesn't work is not Even a book of and the when they do they do it on those

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opinions of Abu that are based on this is not based on this is clearly based upon that that he took from which is but I want to mention to you that here is at the beginning of and the

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is at the end. This refers to a future event. This shall occur in the future.

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uh pay attention to this with regard to this point is because we do not want to go around in circles if any point is not covered. And then likewise an ayatan which I mentioned also already we know that this ayatan refers to the

Speaker A

fact that is a knowledge of the which uh that the we as Muslims have understood this for over 1300 years referring to and what the sign of end of times now Allah subhanahu wa ta'ala when referring to he says

Speaker A

Allah will teach meaning the Quran because when is mentioned in the Quran with it refers to and the only other grouping that is mentioned for in the form is the Ibraim which is the the messenger of Allah sallallahu alaihi wasallam. And Allah

Speaker A

subhana wa ta'ala informs us that he shall instruct injil these four things learned the and he preached the Torah and when he and now he learns because al Quran was sunnah was not revealed in his lifetime. This alludes

Speaker A

to the fact that he is being taught al Quran was sunnah. So when he comes back onto earth he will instruct the people in al Quran or sunnah. He will not abregate any law because the authority given to him is the authority of

Speaker A

Sallallahu Alaihi Wasallam. How can you claim another person can have a man from Punjab can have authority from Sallallahu Alaihi Wasallam and then you deny it with regard to Saatam.

Speaker A

This is audatam. It's also for arrival as well, but I'm not using it in that context.

Speaker A

Here I'm telling you grammatically learn what does it come for? It comes for future. What does it's in the accusative state? It refers to the future.

Speaker A

You will have to show me that this is for something else. In the future will not be pleased except to be this is in reference to when he comes back to the when he comes back he will show them

Speaker A

that indeed he was of Allah subhana wa ta'ala and of course when he's described as from being from that means that has an angelic nature he's a human being but he has an angelic nature because he was born without the intervention of a

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father. That is our belief. I do not know with regard to your belief but our belief is that snam was born without the intervention of a father. That angelic nature of is described in Quran as and then when Allah subhanahu wa ta'ala

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says to Allah subhanahu wa ta'ala addresses and he says I rest restrained bani is from you that means bani is could not torture isam It means that Bani is did not place him on a cross. It means Ban is did not beat

Speaker A

Isaam. It means he there is no such thing as him being placed on a cross surviving the crucifixion. You may not define it as a crucifixion but it's a disgrace that he was beaten. And we know that the Romans in that time they

Speaker A

stripped people naked and placed them them on the crosses. The Quran is very clearly saying I stopped and restrained Bani is from you. That means that he did not survive a crucifixion and then went to thousands of mile to my ancestral home of Kashmir

Speaker A

that us Kashmiris do not even know that snamam was buried there for hundreds for nearly 2,000 years. We never knew this.

Speaker A

Then Allah subhanahu wa ta'ala says What am I taking from this? If you pay attention because I would want a a good response regarding this because if the response is not given then I will take it that you are unable to answer this

Speaker A

that both of these are and as we know in Arabic grammar is and they both have they fall into the state and when you have a and a both imperfect when you have this and it's upon the other the second one invalidates the

Speaker A

first one. So when Allah subhanana wa ta'ala says they plotted and planned meaning the ben is and Allah subhanahu wa ta'ala he had his divine plan this means the mak of the yahood the mak of the Jews they were unable to harm

Speaker A

totally why because Allah subhanahu wa ta'ala has told us very clearly rather Allah subhanahu wa ta'ala raised him with regard to the You may say that does this mean Allah subhana wa ta'ala has a special location in the in the heavens? Is he physically

Speaker A

contained in the heavens? I will say to you and both of this you will never find this in the Quran except twice unless you can correct me except twice in reference to it means the presence of Allah in the

Speaker A

heavens in the way the angels are close to Allah subhana wa tala. Why do I say this? Because when is used for something else, it means the heavens. Like to him ascend the good words and good actions they ascend to him meaning a

Speaker A

location in the heavens. Similarly when Allah subhana wa ta'ala says that have you taken security with regard to the one who is in the heavens here does not mean that Allah subhana wa ta'ala is located within the heavens

Speaker A

physically and materially. Now, just to cover one final point, pause that one minute, please.

Speaker A

Can we have the fan switched off because of the the fan? It's that one on the table, I think.

Speaker A

Yes, you can resume the time. Okay. When Allah subhanahu wa ta'ala says you are saying the isal the isi you will have to demonstrate that the mul is I have demonstrated that it is but at the same time you would have to

Speaker A

negate if meant station that the station of isam is raised only then it would mean all martyrs their stations What's so special about the is a physical ascension of similarly the the here or the would prove a physical ascension of

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as I mentioned to you is a and as we know very well a minority of scholars even if they took a divergent view all of them agreed that sa is alive in the heavens. And this was the belief of all the Muslims until

Speaker A

Sayyad stated otherwise. Syd was actually the first one to state that means to kill you that Allah will kill Isaam. Meaning that would mean meaning taking his life. That would mean that the Romans were attempting to kill him

Speaker A

but Allah subhana wa ta'ala killed him and but then later on what your jamaat says is that lived for 120 years that would contradict when Allah subhana wa ta'ala says is not mentioned old age is not mentioned Kashmir is not mentioned in

Speaker A

the Quran Kashmir is not found literally in Quran it's not even alluded to in Quran otherwise we would boast of that as Kashmir being. So just to recap everything I've said to you, do not quote when the issue is like

Speaker A

because there is there is no general statement except it will have similarly is in meaning that's proven from thirdly the is it negates everything that's after and it establishes the opposite after it and also is carried out which in means that

Speaker A

theatal limited to to the opposite to what is negated and with regard to that it means to transpire and cannot be used as a because it was in reference to and then otherwise wouldn't contradict it other Sahabah wouldn't contradict it

Speaker A

likewise what is your rule for why do why how do you interpret the mish which is in Muslim where is Damascus and where is Punjab and then We take a rough literally and I gave examples from al Quran where the is literal and I gave

Speaker A

one example from Bkari and similarly the ofd is a that for the not for the and similarly is of and the moderator should not be reacting really in that sense it can be interpreted as you tell me. So similarly

Speaker A

his position on which you cannot site because it's not in Bkari and Muslim and then what I mentioned regarding and in the even if it's established it doesn't we don't do of you based on that alone we do it on other factors and then what

Speaker A

I mentioned with regard to and what I mentioned with regard to that he's one of the signs of the end of times means knowledge of the hour. uh we know about the other even though they are mash I'm not citing it as a proof in

Speaker A

this case and what I mentioned you have to show is not Quran and I'm saying it's alquran is taught alquran by Allah subhana wa ta'ala this proves he's a follower of the prophet sallallahu alaihi wasallam he is not the one who abolishes jiza he has

Speaker A

been given that authority by Allah and his and then similarly what I mentioned regarding that Isa will not be pleased with except to be is for the future is for the future and what contradicts the jamaat's belief also you wanted this isal it contradicts

Speaker A

your beliefs I restrain Bani is from you. They didn't beat him. Your belief will contradictal of the Quran. They were not even able to touch because he was raised. And finally, what I mentioned with regard to this also the hadith which I mentioned

Speaker A

21 hadith you are saying none of them mention the life ofatam. They very clearly mention the life ofatam.

Speaker A

If our jamaat uh attendees and the people who are watching this live stream, they all go on to the hadith not only of Bkari and through the hadith of Muslim, they will very clearly find that the malul of those hadith is not someone

Speaker A

from Punjab it's someone from the land of B is from Palestine who is and I mentioned to you the as well the with regard to the the Miam the you have to show it's someone else.

Speaker A

Time. Okay. Yeah. You ready? Yeah. The time stops. Brother, you had two years to prepare for this debate and this is what you'll bring. Really? Not one single dala. Now I will show you what Dalala is and I

Speaker A

will prove that none of your ayat were dal from the Quran from Bkari Muslim.

Speaker A

Did you quote Rasoolah once where he said hazatam went to disguise with his body? Show me Bkari Muslim I have it.

Speaker A

Show me that where the prophet said that he was taken up with his body. Not one hadith brother. This is really shocking for me. Now I will give you brothers Dala surah al- Maida. Allah the Almighty speaks of the conversation between him

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on the day of judgment with Allah will say to that did you say to the people take me and my mother as gods besides Allah in response gives four profound answers he says subhan that I could never say that which I had

Speaker A

no right to say. Then he affirms the knowledge of Allah. If I said it, you would have surely known it. Then he reminds the people that he preached I only told them worship Allah my lord and your lord alone. Now the fourth

Speaker A

answer is crucial. He says that I was a witness over them as long as I remained among them. But when you took my soul and caused me to die, you alone were the watch over them. Now this ayah is through two ways. Focused.

Speaker A

Firstly, this ayah makes it that the Christian nation went astray after the tawi of hazatam not while he was alive.

Speaker A

They went astray after Allah took his soul and he died and obviously today the Christians are astray. Secondly, we know that there are two time periods mentioned and while he was with the people while he was not there's no third time period. So

Speaker A

this shows how did he separate from the um this is clear and then Allah the in the same ayah you're quoting he makes it clear now he will only be not before that now the meaning of I agree with you

Speaker A

the word is taken completely we have no issue with that you pre-prepared your rebuttal I wasn't going to quote half the things you said you should have Let me went first. Allah the Almighty explains what is when he does it. When

Speaker A

Allah does Allah, By the way, you read the ayah wrong. Okay, this ayah is clear that Allah takes the soul twice. Death and those who are not dead drink. There's only two times Allah takes the soul. Death or

Speaker A

sleep. You need to prove from Quran Bkari and Muslim that the wafi has a third meaning. What is he taken for?

Speaker A

It's the soul. Now, who understood the Quran the best? It's our master Haz Muhammad sallallahu alaihi wasallam.

Speaker A

Allah states the prophet sallallahu alaihi wasallam will teach us what this ayah means in Bkari. The prophet sallallahu alaihi wasallam saw some of his sabah going to the hellfire and he said it was said to him you do not know what they did after you.

Speaker A

Then the prophet sallallahu alaihi wasallam quotes like you affirmed. He quotes and uses the same verse for himself that while I was with my people they were upon after my death they went astray. The prophet sallallahu alaihi wasallam is using

Speaker A

and giving the same of that both of our nations went astray after we died. This is the first point. Then if you look at the Quran is This ayah is the is only the taking of the soul according to the Quran Bkari

Speaker A

and Muslim there's no third meaning you are the claimment in this debate proof the wafi means the body is taken and you can make a point then but so far you haven't done that now in this ayah Allah

Speaker A

makes it clear that first the tawi happened then Allah raised so what was taken in tawi it's the so and when you translate the ay you first made a mistake you said oh I will raise you then you got confused and you said no

Speaker A

take you and raise you. So this is a big mistake which shows that your translation is wrong. Not only this, what was the allegation of the Jews? The Jewish allegation was that we killed we crucified him. Therefore his soul didn't

Speaker A

ascend. They said he was in a cursed. Allah responded you did not kill nor did you crucify him. We agree with you. Anyone who says died on the cross, he is a disbeliever.

Speaker A

We have nothing to do with them. However, Allah himself explains that this is of what was taken in the soul was taken in rafa. It's the soul which gained nearness to Allah.

Speaker A

This was the allegation of the yahood that his soul didn't ascend. Their wasn't about the so you are mistaken on that as well. Furthermore, Allah says and of course Allah has no location. All in respond to everything you said

Speaker A

inshallah. Allah the Almighty says for example or when Ibraim said did he mean he will physically go up? Of course not. Soallah Allah is free of m and zan he is free of location. So illallah is always going to be taken in

Speaker A

the spiritual sense. You mentioned whenever is used for it means bodily ascension. This is the biggest mistake you made today in this debate. Allah says regarding are you saying if you remained humble Allah would raise his up now you

Speaker A

mentioned books without hinting to them today you accepted that the prophet sallallahu alaihi wasallam just went up to the skies because used for him as well and I will use that if you you know go outside because you're hinting to books as well then in

Speaker A

Muslim the prophet sallallahu alaihi wasallam says It's the just some does it mean the raf is the body going up. Every ayah you quoted of it's not even Allah causing human beings. This is our claim. You provided zero ayat for that nor any

Speaker A

hadith where Allah is causing of the human being. Now I'm shocked as that you tried to raise allegation on I'm honestly astonished in Bkari when according to your here I had I prepared an entire booklet for you of your

Speaker A

including you misqued him this is disappointing I don't expect this from an academic You mention it but you didn't dare to mention that he explained the in three of his books that I found for you three of his books where he explains that yes

Speaker A

people say they didn't meet but because he took it from authentic people in between it is authentic and I have here body for you he even says he quotes the and then he says so I request he can give this I put the

Speaker A

mark read it you shouldn't have quoted him for that this is unjust because you misqued him and you didn't give the full view not only other as well three books from I gave you itself you quoted everyone heard us say

Speaker A

look how dishonest this is from it's from Abbas says this is a weak chain he says it's not so don't ever quote that again please I know I've read that book. Alhamdulillah. So that doesn't prove your point. Now how

Speaker A

is used in the Quran whenever Allah causes tawi? It's the taking of the s at death. The only time Allah used it for metaphorical death.

Speaker A

Sleep is when night or sleep is mentioned. Today he is forced to accept and is either death sleep if he wants to be on just because there's no karina there. So he can't take the sleep meaning. Not only this

Speaker A

our mother she said when the prophet sallallahu alaihi wasallam passed away. So what we have shown now is taking in full when Allah does ti of a human being he takes the soul the body remains on the ground. Number one. Number two,

Speaker A

Christians went astray. After the tawi hazat died, then they went astray. Two periods mentioned madum to him while he was with them and when Allah was the witness. No third period. Now on kyama he will be a shahid.

Speaker A

You can't you can't can't interrupt. Just pause it. Pause it cuz you distracted me.

Speaker A

I'm not distracting. You know uh do you have any other references for I have many books for you. Send them send them. Send them.

Speaker A

Let me uh let me give you all three. No no no. One second. You can't interject because that's giving you time. That's giving you time in his time to look. You should be concentrating on his arguments in your time. In your

Speaker A

time, you can you can have a look and answer. Can you please continue? I'll continue. So, what I summarized, please give me some extra seconds as well. The prophet sallallahu alaihi wasallam used while quoting for death.

Speaker A

You didn't show me the prophet sallallahu alaihi wasallam's goal. I'm making him the hak. And this is Bkari.

Speaker A

And Im Bkari put Abbas's gold. was jamm which means it's authentic to Imam Bkari challenge this I challenge you to challenge this fat has more references here as well then not only this I showed imari accepts and death what was taken

Speaker A

in that is what will have int granted him exaltation because the allegation of the Jews was that he was in a curse not only this Allah the almighty says you gave a strange teaching from your book right there that this means even

Speaker A

passed away before all messages passed away. This is astonishing my brother. Then you made another mistake. You said doesn't mean death here. Allah himself explains how happens with the Allah didn't say.

Speaker A

So this shows for the message is only through death or being killed. And with so he was not killed. The Sahabah Abu Bakr what was he proving when Omaru said don't say when Abu Bakr kissed our blessed master's forehead and said

Speaker A

then he read when he saw saying these things he said then what did he use to prove the prophet sallallahu alaihi wasallam passed What was the here? That the prophet sallallahu alaihi wasallam has passed away. How? Because all messages before my passway. You said

Speaker A

is this is or not? I have your audio here where you said is included. Do you want me to play that audio? Please don't force me to do that. Now let's get to the responses of Rashid. Rashid, not a

Speaker A

single dala you brought and I will respond to them all. Now firstly you said that the wii look I accept I need to interject.

Speaker A

This is unfair. No it's not. When I tell you stop you once you know the recording is referring to is a private phone call and he recorded without my permission. You recorded me without my permission. That's that's so

Speaker A

you need to retract that now cuz we already we already I don't record you.

Speaker A

drinking. I'm recording. You tell me moderator for him to site a private phone without moderator. I'm asking you.

Speaker A

I'm asking you moderator. I'm not important here. The only people who've done that with me is the Shia.

Speaker A

Why would you record a private? One second. One second. Can we be silent? This is the third time or the second time where you I know, but I'm saying you need to be neutral. Yeah.

Speaker A

You signed the conditions. I'm being neutral. You could have stated that in your time.

Speaker A

No, because that's You read You read You read You One sec. One second. Sorry. You read the IR wrong. He looked at me. I I didn't even stop there cuz you've signed the conditions.

Speaker A

Yes. Cuz anyone can make a mistake. Yet you read the wrong. But what I'm saying is let him finish and then in your turn you can say whatever you want. So that would call into question all your credibility

Speaker A

because you know we've had Skype calls. We've had Skype calls. Had you haven't been recording. There's integrity of the Jamaat falls into question. No it does.

Speaker A

I don't do that. It does. Your Jamaat full integrity falls. One second. One second. Our Skype calls and we've been recording that.

Speaker A

Can I get two minutes to explain why I recorded that call? Their team sent copyright strikes on my channel.

Speaker A

Okay. If and we resolved that we resolved that we didn't finish last. We're going off topic now. This is retracted.

Speaker A

Yes. We've retracted from this is not the reason no need to use this point.

Speaker A

Yes. As he mentioned, thank you. Okay. I won't share your actual belief. I apologize.

Speaker A

Thank you. Please continue. Okay. So, I won't play that. But he accepts it. Includes all messages as far.

Speaker A

No, he's just retracted and he's saying I include it. I don't He changed his view.

Speaker A

It's a conversation. He has a context. Okay. I won't say he has a total different context. That's fine.

Speaker A

Can we not interject from now onwards please? Even if he's wrong in your turn, please identify the issues. Zakah.

Speaker A

Okay. So is for allul before all of them before him. If you remove even one of Allah falls into question. The argument there is that has to die. Why?

Speaker A

All messengers before him have passed away. No sahhabi said anything there. Now let's look at the ayat that Assar Rashid quoted. Unfortunately, he brought nothing and moderator he broke the rule four or five times by mentioning Damascus. That's about Nuzul. This is

Speaker A

dishonesty. We weren't allowed to mention a hadith of Nuzuli. So now let me respond to him. Every ayah he quoted about Rafa. It's not Allah causing on a human being. Allah does of a human being always inat otherwise he has to prove

Speaker A

that third meaning of ra from the Quran Bkari or Muslim. Not only this, let us look at his weak argumentation today.

Speaker A

Firstly, I accept that there's doesn't change the meaning of the word. If I say I ate like you ate, eating means eating. We may have a different way of eating. We may eat different foods. Or for example, I'll give you an

Speaker A

example. Sal means does not change the meaning of the word. How does this show's followers went to through innovations and other things followers went to through worshiping but is what the Quran says and what the prophet sallallahu alaihi wasallam says which is death only

Speaker A

the taking of the soul and imari put and he put it right after right after so that answers your point not only this you said there's that's been answered by and I iman Alith Khan he says when Haj found out about

Speaker A

the missing chain how he said I had no doubt after that and I don't even need that chain because sallallahu alaihi wasallam said the same thing on the same page of alkari you mentioned this is not inahkari it says means do

Speaker A

you know this the meaning of is he reached that what this ayah meant is is that would preach the message as a child defend his mother haz and also in older age which he did this does not say

Speaker A

that he went up to disguise with his body alive this is not who are unassi it's the who are attacking him Allah gave the prophecy that those Jews raising allegations against you don't worry because your son Allah will protect him he will defend

Speaker A

you in the mahad And in the this shows it's not the way you're thinking. They went up to the skies then he's over 2,000 years. That's not anyways. So this eye is not otherwise you're saying Allahash lie to

Speaker A

he comforted her that this son of yours will speak to these people in the only way you can escape this one is on before Kyama. All the Yehood of that time are also alive in disguise. They will come

Speaker A

back. Then will speak to them. This is not Dala. In fact, your own differ on it. So I don't know why you thought this is now you mentioned this is not private. This is from your lecture. I have your video here. You say

Speaker A

this is not decisive. Why are you quoting it then? Here we have the audio and this was something you know. So the verses are from and surah of course something additional to be mentioned regarding listen carefully which is found

Speaker A

in number 43 of the Quran where Allah subhanahu wa ta'ala says regarding regarding that he is one of the signs of the hour.

Speaker A

Now this verse I'm not saying this verse is decisive. You yourself said it's not.

Speaker A

How can you quote this in a debate where you had to bringal as for I accept is also are you going to deny that the prophet sallallahu alaihi wasallam is mis will you deny that today it's in Bkari the prophet sallallahu

Speaker A

alaihi wasall is also so that doesn't mean he's alive is alive in the skies bodily not only this with the prophet sall Sallallahu alaihi wasallam we know that the splitting of the moon is also a sign of the hour. So this is not you accept your

Speaker A

people accept that is also and can refer to the Quran as well. It can refer to the prophet sallallahu alaihi wasallam. So this is not someone being doesn't mean he's alive in the skies with his earthly body. The prophet

Speaker A

sallallahu alaihi wasallam is the biggest. This is our belief. Your ayah is in you accepted it yourself. Then you quoted This is not you translate it as all as we're doing this debate brother are dying without accepting is all are included it doesn't say

Speaker A

number one number two your translation of although you're saying it includes all of the Quran is clear will be disbelieving in so your meaning for that is also not only this can refer to the prophet sallallahu alaihi wasallam as well what

Speaker A

does this ayah really mean if you read the context of the yahood were asking the prophet sallallahu alaihi wasallam's questions they were doubting Islam so Allah said there's no one from them meaning The true except they will believe in

Speaker A

he is going back to the it's not going to isam's death you have accepted I have that video as well if you demand it where you say as well you said it yourself so this isn't not only this if you look at it

Speaker A

this way can refer to the prophetam it can even refer to Allah so this is not and the same ayah says he will not before that. So this actually proves is died and Quran is saying there's no contradiction. Quran says

Speaker A

Allah will keep disbelievers on earth. So you saying all of them will accept has no way. I have Sahib Bkari here the narration you gave of Abu Hura he just read the ayah after we also read the ayah that's about we accept that ayah

Speaker A

means in the time of there were barakat and the true accepted Islam in the same way in the time of the true will accept Islam that's what it means school is here he doesn't do any how are you doing

Speaker A

for him you're not abu so don't use him forlalahal on this not only this other ayat contradict as well disbelievers will remain. This also isn't dala. Then you mention some other verses. I'll quickly address them because they're not at all. One

Speaker A

ayah you mentioned is that Allah will teach him. But you mentioned this is also a mistake. I know you're reading today, but you should have focused on the Quran instead. There are many examples where is not for example the change of inah

Speaker A

is that now in the end time someone will face the of course not isn't only this is false according to the Arabic language you mentioned we accept you mentioned I accept who told you the opposite of not being cured

Speaker A

and crusen means body ascended to disguise the opposite is Allah causing isam natural For example, Nabi was not killed nor crucified. Was he raised bodily into disguise? Of course not. So him not being killed nor crucified. We accept he died a natural

Speaker A

death Allah took the soul. Then the happened martyrs they're all high above. They have the greatest. But with Allah promised him you will speak in old age. So if he died or was killed by them obviously then that prophecy would fail. So he wouldn't

Speaker A

have ra because then it would mean he's not true. So Allah promised him and he reached Kala and he spread the message of and that's how that ayah was fulfilled. Allah promise the were the accusing him it's not

Speaker A

he said that as a child so he got Quran before then of course not here does not mean Quran in a hadith did the prophet sallallahu alaihi wasallam say this did the sahaba say this no sahhabi said this so this is your own

Speaker A

shab which has no way and the Quran for Allah Allah says they got did they all get the Quran and hadith before the prophet sallallahu alaihi wasallam not you mentioned that's not every will be abd of Allah till forever they all will

Speaker A

be the are alive in their one second one second guys we're getting some noise here please continue right then not only this there's two time periods mentioned in Madum has to happen in that has to happen. All that has to happen in

Speaker A

his time. His happened, his death happened. Then his nation went astray. So our topic today, you have to address the I know you want to go. I accept. But what is taken in that is what will be raised. You attach you have a book in

Speaker A

front of you. Do you know what it says about in the hadith there? The book which is in front of you. You should check that.

Speaker A

He's not allowed to site that site. But you were saying in that I haven't made reference saying don't mention the moderator moderator I'm going to take up a point.

Speaker A

I've not mentioned any of the works on Mizas. So he's been mentioned Misha's works. So that goes against our conditions. That's another violation.

Speaker A

He's mentioned the name but you I haven't even referenced you mentioned Kashmir. You mentioned being put on the cross. This is your belief. You also said you also said you're looking moderator. You're looking biased here. The rule is you can't you

Speaker A

no you are because Kashmir is not said give me why I'm saying he's clearly mentioned that I'm not making any reference to or anything you mentioned for Abbas show me that from Bkari I didn't claim it's Bkari Muslim

Speaker A

so why you no it's not a name of book it's a name of a book you mention is the name of a book you mentioned mention iscept position and is a concept that's not mentioning don't mention the book name

Speaker A

but you can mention mention you can mention concept Why are you referencing? Why do you have to say it in you? You going to mention this?

Speaker A

2 minutes left. You can mention because nothing you guys aren't allowed to talk. You're supposed to be moderator. Listen, I'm addressing the moderator because the task was I was under the impression that a Jamaat moderator will be neutral

Speaker A

that I'm I'm notifying the moderator that he can't be quoting outside sources. Yeah. Instead, you're challenging me on that.

Speaker A

But that's a condition we signed on. Yeah. So you don't mention the books but you can mention the book but you yourself concept you can mention in this book it's mentioned abbas's full view I didn't mention a book

Speaker A

yeah so I didn't mention any book I said mentioning school completely even that wasn't allowed according to the conditions meaning the position of a sahhabi but no no that's not his position says that son of this is in don't say sahabi's

Speaker A

position can we finish let me finish my please don't please mention don't mention a book name I thought if he's allowed to mention from a week.

Speaker A

It's not a book. It's not a book. So isn't a book. I didn't mention exactly.

Speaker A

So what are you listening to? It's not a title of a book. Not a book I've heard of saying is you you can mention Okay. I won't mention a book again just just okay not to mention what has been said.

Speaker A

You know I want to say one thing. It's very easy if one of you are sitting here to accuse.

Speaker A

Exactly. I've not spoken once. All I've all I'm doing is timekeeping. And I have to make this clear for people. All I'm doing is timekeeping and you've interjected interjected four or five times. He did not even do it once. That's fine because

Speaker A

he's violating. I haven't violated you. But as soon as the time ends, you can mention it. No problem. You violated and I'm going to interject.

Speaker A

Does he don't mention mentioned book? But moderator before you start my time. He's violated. He mentioned Damascus hadith how many times? That's it's a hadith. It's in it's it's part of our condition.

Speaker A

moderator where I said 21 hadith are mentioning isam and I tell you why I mentioned that hadith why I mentioned that hadith is because is it proves isam is alive so it's to do with of Damascus is about though the fact that the fact

Speaker A

he comes down proves no it doesn't a dead person comes down or a living can we can we stop this for now please I think I should get I think we have a cross-examination session later inshallah that Graciously

Speaker A

give me an extra minute for how much time you come. No, because of your violations.

Speaker A

Okay. Okay, that's fine. No issue. I don't need it. Continue. Okay. In surah ala verse 110, Allah recalls the favors upon no mentioned as well. He mentioned the word to the prophet sallallahu alaihi wasallam.

Speaker A

He was protected by Allah as well. When the prophet sallallahu alaihi wasallam is attacked in his feet are drenched in blood, Rashid has no issue. But is cannot even be touched. Prophets were killed with them. You don't mind. It's

Speaker A

fine. But when is face persecution like you have an issue when you misquote the ayah this is unjust as well and uses the word kafa for sahab as well and the prophet sallallahu alaihi wasallam they first persecution so don't

Speaker A

ever bring that argument again now we notice brought no you mentioned I accept Allah's plan what was it it was that Jews wanted to kill Allah promised him I will cause you to die so Allah the almighty fulfilled that promise gave him

Speaker A

a natural death. What was raised is what is taken in tawi which is the soul. I've rebutted every single ayah you mentioned. You mentioned that you know good words and actions go to disguise.

Speaker A

Last time I checked good words and actions aren't human beings. If I'm wrong, correct me. Number one, Bkari mentions ayah with this ayah to show that it's the go to went up. This is in Bkari as well.

Speaker A

Not only this, I end with one important point. He mentioned Tali. I accept no issue. But the opposite of not being killed in the crusad isn't the body going up to disguise. It's natural death as Allah says.

Speaker A

You mentioned Kashmir is now in the Quran. A nabi can pass away anywhere. My da'wah today in fact your daw is alive in disguise with his earthly body. You couldn't prove it from I just had to prove that you were wrong. And I refuted

Speaker A

all of your ayat in my opening. Okay. Not only this this al also refutes here concept. Allah says we I granted hazatam refuge on a high elevated land. If you say this is jah you have to accept is

Speaker A

alive in the skies and is also alive in disguise. So this is Kashmir and you should be happy and ni passed away on the land you're from. You shouldn't be opposing it. You should take it as a blessing. So nothing I gave you.

Speaker A

You tried saying changes the wording of imari didn't let you do that. He put right there.

Speaker A

Now I give a sahib three references in fact four where maybe even five and then imi as well that this is the most authentic chain of did you know this imi says this is the the best and imbal

Speaker A

in his okay you know you threw the time will start yeah let me fix the timing cuz now it's 10 minutes this is for you sir yeah exactly one Sorry.

Speaker A

The breaks after this 10 minutes, then 5 minutes rebuttal and then 10 minute closing, then there's a break.

Speaker A

Inshallah. Yeah. Well, you're really done with this. So, there's still time. Are you ready?

Speaker A

Yeah. The time starts. Man, very disappointing. So many red herrings that I'm going to catch up with your red herrings. But first read this just what you just presented to me. Read it. What does he say? Read it out in

Speaker A

your you can take my time. Read it out and tell me where I am wrong about challenging you to read that in our time. Similarly, read this. This doesn't prove your point about Ali in your point is not proven. I've read this passage.

Speaker A

He's not talking about the sun that you mentioned. He's talking I want you to read it. In fact, if you can read that.

Speaker A

Do you want to do it in your turn or do you want to do his turn?

Speaker A

No. In my time. I want you to read it in my time. Read out the text from the Arabic.

Speaker A

Yeah. No, that one. The one I gave you. Yes. I'm going to read this. But I gave that one. No, that one. I want you to read that. Yes. This. Read it out.

Speaker A

So this the same son of mut. Yes. Read the text. Yes. Okay. Ali Ali is authentic.

Speaker A

He did not mean that's what I said to you. Thank you that when you presented that I just wanted you to read it. You I'll tell you what the rest says. Let me finish. He took it from authentic.

Speaker A

I explained that to you. Exactly. You did not make You made it look like Ali.

Speaker A

You made it look like Alib said that in my life. Look at this. Look at this. He say yes.

Speaker A

This is the part that you doesn't mean because inhexamination. Thank you very much. Yes. So in in the in the he doesn't mention any and I mentioned to you in what does he write in what does similarly you'll find other in his I

Speaker A

mentioned also you threw so many red herrings here for instance you said the nation of the prophet sallallahu alaihi wasallam became misguided after he passed away that's the you wording you used the nation of the prophet sallallahu alaihi wasallam did not

Speaker A

become misguided it was a selective group of people and the I said to you for the was done between the but you said in his question the the question to you is the following ifatam at that time is saying that they became

Speaker A

misguided after you took me up if he was taken up at 120 and as I'm sure you very well know Paul died in around 60 they became misguided before that that takes away 60 years and you said kahalan

Speaker A

includes old age there's no such way that you can include old age all the way up to 120 and the point mentioned with regard to kafaban is I restrain ban is from you means isam was not beaten was not struck was not

Speaker A

placed on a cross there's no such thing he didn't survive any attempt for crucifism crucifixion you mentioned for instance This is for the future. It is I'm saying I'm saying and in the lifetime of the prophet sallallahu alaihi wasallam we shall give

Speaker A

you a and it occurred. It doesn't mean I didn't say a long extended period of time. It nevertheless means a future that has not occurred. It will occur before the death of Isaam. Whatever remaining Jews remain on earth they will

Speaker A

become Muslims. Whatever ones remain prior to his death that will occur. That hasn't occurred. So ex also you mention for instance the is the is telling us the ayat will raise him. It's telling you the what will raise him.

Speaker A

is Allah will raise those who have been given and he and who believe amongst you and who are given Allah will raise them in but in the you said we accept you accept and you you know you admitted

Speaker A

by saying is that goes against you in so because when Allahhala says I take you completely and raise you to myself. You said we dispute was the body and soul only. No, you've accepted. I've already won the debate. You've accepted

Speaker A

means it means Allah subhana wa tala took him completely and you agreed that the means taking and the you agreed on the as for the other ayat you were saying you c you played my recording and I said this is

Speaker A

not that's fine I'm not saying every ayah I'm not saying no no I'm saying that the I said what further supports the argument is these ayat And the of Abuah is even though it's in that particular narration is the ofd Abbas actually

Speaker A

supports that. Now you said why do I mention the misht I even bought a world map for me for you here to demonstrate to you in case you you know I'm sure you studied uh geography in Madrasa you know

Speaker A

I even bought the pointer look here is hind India here is India here is Kashmir here's Kashmir that's where we come from here is Damascus east of Damascus uh kadyan is here in Punjab does not prove that is when he comes

Speaker A

he's alive in heavens when he comes down he'll be living why did I quote sah Muslim because it proves a living man will come down a living man it proves the ofatam so even the point about the of I said to

Speaker A

you you cannot run with that because even those who accepted that they said momentarily Isam will die and then he will ascend.

Speaker A

He ascended and he is alive in the heavens. So many of my other points were not. Now you mentioned Bkari Bkari's school is the same as mine. How do I prove this to you? The Tarajim of Sahil Bkari proved that he had our belief. The

Speaker A

Imm Bkari wrote those not like Alim Muslim. It proves that he had our belief that Issa will descend in the end of times. Meaning he's alive in the heavens. He did not have your belief. He had our belief. Similarly, Alim Bkari in

Speaker A

other books which I'm not going to cite. I can't cite them. It's against the conditions because they have to limit to Bkari Muslim because the the belief when you look at the contiguous picture and the whole context their full belief is

Speaker A

actually shown what Alam alkari actually believed in his other books which I will not mention here. Then you say you answered all my questions. They weren't actually answered. If we go back to the questions the point of mentioning

Speaker A

was that isam was not actually beaten placed on the cross that was the purpose of mentioning that you mentioned the point of I said to when these two are together it's only Quran or sunnah you said Allah taught

Speaker A

him when comes alone it can refer to any revelation but when is together as for ibraim the answer to you I said it in my turn I said it's the prophet sallallahu alaihi wasallam because He's from the of

Speaker A

Ibraimisam. That was the answer to you in the previous section that if you remember additionally you said the other points do not actually prove anything like you've made into for some reason and then I've already answered that and is future. It can be it doesn't mean

Speaker A

that if it's far away or nearby whenas was informed that we will change your it did change but it was for the future and similarly this the of that when you check that you will know that the what belief they held then additionally

Speaker A

the rough you did not answer the rough I already answered you on the rough points you pointed that can mean uh to some somewhere physical and not to Allah subhanahu wa ta'ala in the sense in the heavens when

Speaker A

those ayat that you recited when Ibraim he does hijra to Allah he's doing hijra to the land of sham which is clear from the context of the ayat here however in the ayah of the context is totally different and

Speaker A

this is why I mentioned to you at the beginning that when and uh is to Allah subhanahu wa ta'ala it's in the context because referred to as from those who are then you mentioned also uh the position I

Speaker A

didn't mention a reference for that but I said you will run away from that and the part which we will do in the scrutiny part then you mention you agreed with me I've already won the debate you've agreed It's taking everything

Speaker A

completely. That's what I've said. You've agreed with me. It's harmony. We're in agreement. Taking someone completely. Isaam was taken completely and he was raised. So that's finished.

Speaker A

And yes, I may have mispronounced the part where you said where Allah subhana wa ta'ala says is it's just a slip of the tongue. And similarly here the proves my point.

Speaker A

If you want to finish you can dear. Yes. Just a point on the the proves my point even further. You said because what it means everything before is negated in your theory. there would be a such a long gap between Isaam

Speaker A

dying and the the attempt of the Yahood disproves that it happened straight away and means they didn't touch him at all. He was raised straight away. I hope you uh picked up that point.

Speaker A

Okay. Yeah. Water, please. That's okay. What is it? You ready? One sec. Yeah. Ready.

Speaker A

Start. Alhamdulillah. I don't think you came to listen today. You had pre-prepared rebuttals. I never said the wii when Allah is the and he does it on a human being. It means to take in full. I said we're willing to

Speaker A

accept this is when Allah is defiled and human being is what does the mean throughout the Quran it's taking. What does Allah take?

Speaker A

Because Allah says you're saying means the body and soul was taken. You have to prove this third meaning of tawafi from the Quran. Bkari or Muslim. My two meanings are intact.

Speaker A

Death or sleep metaphorical death. Allah takes the soul body remains on the ground. You didn't touch it. Did you show me the prophet sallallahu alaihi wasallam said hazatam was taken with his jim into disguise? No. Did you show me

Speaker A

from the Quran your third tawi or from sallahu alaihi wasallam? No. Open challenge to all you brothers. Show me the third tawi from any sahhabi of the prophet sallallahu alaihi wasallam. That here doesn't mean death. It means taking

Speaker A

the body up to disguise. It can be weak. The hadith can be weak. Even what you're quoting about he says it means death and that's weak.

Speaker A

According to because never met it's one of the worst chains even in he quotes.

Speaker A

Oh, please do not mention. But for I'm allowed. I'm allowed for he's allowed to for No, no, he's right.

Speaker A

For we agreed that I'm only quoting it fories. Can you add 20 seconds? It's fine. It's fine. Continue.

Speaker A

Yeah. So even authenticates puts in he quotes the same things I brought today. Here are 25 times tawi is used in the Quran. You can give this to Rashid.

Speaker A

I already have that. He's taking the sole body remains on the ground. Your third meaning of you have to prove. So no, I didn't accept your third meaning of your other meaning.

Speaker A

I accept took the soul. There's no third. I gave you the prophet sallallahu alaihi wasallam. I answered your point about you didn't dare address it. There's a certain book that's near you right now. I won't mention the name.

Speaker A

It says it means death as well. Okay. Not only this Muslim narration is you weren't allowed to mention it. You violated the rule over three four times in your opening. Not only this, you said those who said muma means death, they

Speaker A

says they said monetarily he died. Then Allah raised him. I challenge you. Show me that view from Abasu. You lied against him. You said those who said it means death said this. I challenge you.

Speaker A

Show me from any book. He said this that meant monetarily death. Then Allah raised him with his body to disguise.

Speaker A

It's in no book. Okay? So don't ever misn please. Not only this, the prophet sallallahu alaihi wasallam also had nuzul. Nuzul doesn't mean the prophet sallallahu alaihi wasallam bodily came from the skies. If hazat is death is proven from then cannot mean

Speaker A

the same is that Quran says has died and won't return. I mentioned that is nation went to after he died. The prophet sallallahu alaihi wasallam some of his people went to the prophet used the quoting for death.

Speaker A

Even if you reject Abbas's son today, you mentioned we were discussed in the back and forth. So I won't mention it again. It's authentic according to you misqued cuz says the name again.

Speaker A

Sorry because he quoted it. So So don't mention the name but you can mention but brother.

Speaker A

No, he's allowed to quote me for he's allowed to quote because it's right. I'm not intervening cuz he's allowed I'm going to need extra. You can have that.

Speaker A

I'm just being extra careful now. Only when I will raise it to you when there's a violation. them allowed. So clarifies and the I gave you he mentions the same maybe you read the wrong line.

Speaker A

He says after mention okay you can read this again I think you read the wrong line maybe you're thinking of the not only this ban is only said you mentioned the 120 you mentioned the 120 age you mentioned the

Speaker A

120 age of Paul my brother Paul was disowned the ayah says is nation went astray after that if one person goes astray who's not even from ban that doesn't mean the Quran is wrong. You hear denying the Quran over a historical

Speaker A

figure Paul who was disowned. The ayat is wherever is Alam was there was no shik and this is proven isn't with Paul they didn't even meet the ayat is the shik began after he died after which said his death you haven't answered that

Speaker A

you mention is still because when Allah told the then he waited a bit so of course except if I say I'm giving you a paper this is also because when you get it it'll be a latter turn so there's

Speaker A

always a little bit of time but you mentioned that This is improvement by for example says this is and everyone from all time were guided when Allah mentioned it. Not only this is with the ayat but the is still

Speaker A

it's not bodily ascension and there are certain books where the sahabah said for the prophet sallallahu alaihi wasallam today you have to accept that the prophet sallallahu alaihi wasallam went alive with his earthly body into disguise because is mentioned for him as

Speaker A

well and you made a rule that when it's mentioned like this it means bodily the ascension. Not only this, Allah used the word for many that they did against the of Allah. Does it mean none of them were touched? What kind of

Speaker A

is this? Allah the Almighty clearly mentions this in the Quran mentioned the eye as well where he uses the word for the other ally had against him but the prophet they did against him as well. Allah protected hazatam caused him

Speaker A

to die a natural death. Him facing persecution does not change the fact that he was a true prophet and Allah protected him and made him fulfill his mission. Now you mentioned the ayah of I think you forgot the rest of the ayah

Speaker A

is alone. It's you made a mistake. You should correct yourself. The alab and al-hikma is not the Quran here. I challenge you any ayah you quoted. Did the prophet sallallahu alaihi wasallam mention it that way? I told you I imari

Speaker A

mentions means I never said you're always said is till his death he spoke the truth as but in that ayah the context is defending his mother. So he defended his mother as a child and then when this is

Speaker A

it's the same Allah gave is knowledge of writing and wisdom and he gave him is mentioned before this means according to you as a child is had Quran and sun already not only this bkari do you know the mujah what does kaha

Speaker A

mean according to Bkari Im Bkari said it means did have not reached that even according to you he did because 33 years of age one thing is for certain alhamdulillah by Allah's grace accepted in his turn alhamdulillah one eye you can never

Speaker A

quote again other ayat my dear brother what is taken in it's the soul so the raf is of the soul because what was the allegation of the Jews they were saying is died and a cursed them his soul

Speaker A

didn't ascend to Allah. Allah refutes them that no he was near to me. You said he's not.

Speaker A

He's the closest to Allah. That doesn't mean he's alive bodily with this earthly body. Otherwise, all after their death, they're given the other bodies and they're in the skies living with Allah.

Speaker A

No issue. They're all alive. Ambiia are alive in their grace praying. So every ayah you quoted as far answered it. You haven't answered anything I presented. I asked you. Solve the everything is solved. You are misquing me by saying I

Speaker A

saidwi means taking the body and soul up. I didn't say that. I said or we take you in full. I accept every ayah.

Speaker A

What is taken? When Allah says your translators I won't mention the name sayalia we took. Yes took in full but what is taken? It's the soul cuz Allah is only of the soul. There's no third meaning. I thought you would bring some.

Speaker A

I didn't think I have to be honest. I knew you wouldn't. Quran Bkari Muslim.

Speaker A

Show me that third meaning of tawi or you've lost the debate. Tawwi is the taking of the soul. Rafa is of what the what was taken in tawi. Soul is taken and then in raf it's the soul granted

Speaker A

nearness. That's why is there Allah has no today you were quoting for a second I thought you went wahabi on me but then you clarified that it doesn't mean Allah has a so alhamdulillah let me just re um edit the time you are

Speaker A

you done I have one more minute right because cutting off you said you'll give me a minute when I was speaking okay yeah so the last thing I want to mention is I asked seven questions as far you didn't

Speaker A

answer anything yet so I Hope in your last five minutes you try just attempt it okay try it's a good exercise for us to exchange our thoughts maybe I'll learn something from you number one the Quran is explicit

Speaker A

is two types taking the soul only at death or sleep no third number one number two the prophet sallallahu alaihi wasallam explained as death the Quran is clear the Christian nation went to afteram and he never had a third time period.

Speaker A

Where is that third time period in the Quran? And Allah says now he's only not only this you said it doesn't mean death Allah did the all messages pass through death are being killed for so he's included in death is there any

Speaker A

hadith where the prophet sallallahu alaihi wasallam said went to the skies with this earthly body show me bkari Muslim I will join your side today time one second let me add the 5 minutes from now Are you ready?

Speaker A

Yes, Rosie. I would advise you rather than using laptops and AI, you should use actual knowledge. I'll tell you why.

Speaker A

Leave the laptop and AI and listen to me. You know the third meaning of is the ayah of because the in the the other ayah is the third meaning because what it does you admitted and then the additional detail comes in

Speaker A

that I am taking you completely meaning Isa oh Isa I'm taking you completely and not only taking you completely I am raising you to myself then you said you know the bal you didn't answer many things I said to you the bal what the

Speaker A

bal comes for this what that they didn't touch isam but according to you he they did it contradicts the Quran I restrained on is totally from touching you from harming you according to your belief is what then placed on a cross

Speaker A

beaten and then happens when he reaches 120 years old. He reaches the land of Kashmir and he's 120 years old and then Allah saves him by taking his soul. That contradicts theal of the Quran. That is theal proof

Speaker A

that you are ignoring all everything else you presented is red herrings like Albraim and you said it's a plural. Yes, it is.

Speaker A

The prophet sallallahu alaihi wasallam is Sahabah. Where did the Arabs alim ever have a mul except in the time of Abu Sik and was given to them and the mul and then you said you threw another red herring.

Speaker A

You said do you believe is Alisam knew the Quran before the prophet sallallahu alaihi wasallam when I very clearly said in my turn that that can never be he learned the Quran and the sunnah now he's he's learned it now in the heavens

Speaker A

and when he comes down in the end of times he will rule by alquran was sunnah then there were other red herrings like regarding ali also says regarding him he makes mistakes and this fatal quote that you've presented is nothing. This is the

Speaker A

deception. Even your dossas that I printed out, you have so much deception in your dossas because you highlight one part. You do not give the full quotation in your presentations. Whenever you're presenting things in the past debates, you are not giving complete quotes. Your

Speaker A

your followers are not knowing that you're misquing. This is the misquote. You this is your book. You've misqued this. Why Haj is talking about a total different narration? He's not talk here.

Speaker A

Read it. This is why I challenged you. Look, he mentions what is this discussion about it's in it's totally different what he's to what we were discussing the it's not about the sun.

Speaker A

No, you know what he says? Look, this is why says this is why you're lying. Look, he says, what is he saying? Is he saying and you accept Ali has narrations from Abdullahb Abbas? Is it? The answer is no. Because

Speaker A

he makes mistakes. You have to prove that he met the Rawi from Abdullahb Abbas. It's specific case. He's referring to this narration that this is a sahi. And you missed out another thing also. He mentions another hadith before

Speaker A

that backs this hadith. This is the deception razi that you are doing to the Ahmedi Jamaat that you you are fooling them with these type of quotes. Most of them will not read these quotes but you are deceiving them. the students of

Speaker A

knowledge here will be able to back what I am saying that you are not giving the full quotes and even regarding he says he also says in he never met abdah abbas you never presented that it's case and

Speaker A

the point you mentioned regarding in yes in he mentions that accepted if bkari says them I know this it's in other books But in the case scenario of Ali that you mention you are hiding facts that he makes mistakes he never met Abdah Abbas

Speaker A

and even this cult that you cited from fat you will never you may read it because you may be you know willing to read it but in this this quote is nothing to do with the hadith that we are referring to it's a

Speaker A

total different hadith he saying to say yes this one is established that he he establishes that met Abdah Abbas there were many other time can I get the book back yes thank you there you go please let me know when you're ready

Speaker A

yeah just give me one Just give me one sec. All right. Yeah. Ready? Firstly, no one has AI. I have my notes out that I made. Okay. So, I don't know.

Speaker A

I think you're hallucinating a bit. Maybe focus on what I'm saying. Mut I showed you from Imam Bkari it means taking in for death. What is taking in death? The soul. So I im bkari when he did jim is it a authentic according to

Speaker A

him or no. If I imari put sa jim it's a authentic according to Im bkari. I gave you the meaning of did you dare contest it? No. Not only this you lied against me. People are watching the debate.

Speaker A

Never did I say here he's mentioning I told you he's mentioning the he says to show he accepts that and here I have many books of as well where he explains that after I found out about this I knew

Speaker A

this chain is here read the chain is he's not talking about solitary reports and furthermore in he mentions the hadith and puts and he doesn't attack it one bit. So you were mistaken on that. I never said that. I'm quoting

Speaker A

I was showing you he accepted this son and imm said this is the greatest son of Abbas the greatest the most authentic said it's the best chain. All the scans are in there. You can check them. Now the the

Speaker A

alikmah is given to Ali Ibraim. It doesn't mention the Sahabah there. And it's mazi my brother. He already gave it to them. It's mazi for ali. Don't do of the Quran to keep alive. Don't misquote the Quran brother. This isn't what we

Speaker A

expect from you. Not only this. You called me a liar. this that you're attributing things to me I've never said in my entire life. I never said I've never said that. I told you he took it from authentic narratives. Haj says

Speaker A

it's the most authentic change. Immuti says it's the most authentic and says it's the most authentic. My mukama for you was clear. I showed you ni believed it means death. You didn't dare address it after I corrected you on your

Speaker A

mistake about kama. I corrected you about you didn't address that you were wrong there as well many other miscots you lied against that but he says it was monetarily death challenge bring me z mu you can't bring it so that was also a

Speaker A

misc on your side now I asked the brothers to focus there are many more ayat of the Quran which prove is died I just gave three so far for example mentions his time when he had birth the day he dies and when he's the same life

Speaker A

cycles born death and then raised on if you believe was borally raised to disguise that would have been the day there was the most salam on him no mention in the Quran anywhere then also I mentioned clearly from the Quran

Speaker A

you asked me is it when I corrected you the whole debate. You didn't dare go back there. Why? When I proved it is your last turn is your conclusion. The debate's done. You were too slow. Right?

Speaker A

So the Quran I give you that the began after if I say I took all my money from you when Allah is you or mention I won't mention the book names. Quran is clear.

Speaker A

All the ayat I refute it. Who are these those who are attacking? He had to defend his mother in their life except all them went alive to this you mention is as well I'm not mentioning the book.

Speaker A

Your lead was not because Quran says kufar will remain tokyama. You're saying they will accept Islam all of them right is not part of the the I know it's not I know it's not so what I'm saying is the Quran is will remain I

Speaker A

gave you two ayat you didn't touch them okay so is against the Quran all of these ayat have to be fulfilled in there's only two time periods this was my mean you didn't touch it my brother you should have tried this is a

Speaker A

dialogue but you pre-prepared rebuttals all your you were quoting it's not even in my whole document I didn't bring that ayat you were quoting ayat I wasn't even going to bring today this is not a debate this is a monologue

Speaker A

then I wanted a debate where you address my point and in the Q&A we will see what you say about time time so now we've uh completed um all of the rounds except from the 10-minute closing and make sure there are no new arguments

Speaker A

Please and no um interruptions the closure closing statement. Closing statement. Yes. Summary or whatever is mentioned.

Speaker A

Just give me one second. Okay. So he I can't address him. He can't address me. Right. Just what we mentioned in the debate already. No new dial.

Speaker A

No new process. No new. That's what this thing says. Are you ready? Is it 10 minutes? Yeah.

Speaker A

10 minutes. Yes. Start. Yes. Just to conclude this why I mentioned is to remove any citation of verses. So you went to K's verse the specific verse and then you mentioned now in your conclusion with regard to and

Speaker A

you said that why did I not mention that why I did not mention that and counter that is because when you said it is I had already won that point cuz anyone who knows what is I do not know if in

Speaker A

your mudrasa you study it means all you cannot make any exception. So by you accepting that you exceeded my point when recordings of this debate will come out people will make that point.

Speaker A

You cannot make exceptions. Once you make exceptions whether it's after the time of the prophet sallallahu alaihi wasallam or before then it's not it becomes so I've taken that point.

Speaker A

Secondly, my main I'm the mud. I'm the claimment. I presented the You're not presenting the you're presenting as you know inad you know the famous book.

Speaker A

Yes. I introduced it to the west. This proves that it proves when I said you didn't answer my point. It happened 120 years later grammatically that makes no sense.

Speaker A

It goes against grammar. It goes against you're going against the very foundations of grammar. And this is the hallmark of the jamaat that they do of the Quran against the entire ummah. The shia are with us the salaf are with us

Speaker A

the alul hadith are with us. The diabis are with us every group is with us because that we follow the grammar. Even the the mortazi even he's with us. All of them are with us. They're not with you. This was a new that you brought

Speaker A

along. So the main was this goes with me. I mentioned it's a third type of like this is a type of that was a type of I said to you in the entire Quran and this is only found for

Speaker A

this is done for him. And then also additional to that when I mention this in what type of in is it comes form that all the will believe in Jesus the Jews especially they have not believed in him till today but they will believe

Speaker A

in him prior to his death you said do you know what that means then and you know mentions this in that would mean what that prior to their death at their deathbed. Do you believe this? I'm sure the Jamaat doesn't believe that at the

Speaker A

time at time of death every Jew believes in Isaam. In fact, they deny him until their dying days. So, this sign this particular sign has has not no argument. I mentioned Did you mention this point in the debate? I must I missed it then. I'm I'm

Speaker A

I mentioned that ayah as a doesn't matter about the is a response to can I have another minute to that as well.

Speaker A

I've stopped your time. Yeah. As soon as Okay. So and again you repeated yourself with regard to every that you're mentioning is with the dalala. It's with the karina. Even the that you mentioned it's with the karina of death the and

Speaker A

the in the is the context of the ayah itself that and you admitted it's that is what is applying to then you go back to you did not repeat finish the entire ayatan believed at the time because because he

Speaker A

was overwhelmed with the He's thought that it's perhaps impossible that the prophet sallallahu alaihi wasallam passed away. So reminds him and you're saying that's aal to say means death in the previous it doesn't.

Speaker A

Why doesn't it? because I already answered you by saying it's not it's because according to you then then should also be a part of uh here which again I'm not allowed to quote other books but nevertheless then why didn't he comment on the statement

Speaker A

of abdahbin Abbas that mum that means mum Because knew Ibn Abbas's full position. People who read fat know that Hajar held the view of Isam, the of Isam. You think Hajalani didn't know that Abdullahb Abbas holds a holds a

Speaker A

view that goes against me? So he held the same view and that's why he doesn't give a commentary to that at that particular point. You also miss the fact that says about and he in that quote you're saying I am

Speaker A

saying that you are deceiving because that narration is a total different narration. It's it's the same chain.

Speaker A

Listen it's the same chain and is authenticated that particular chain. He's not authentic the chain that for the Abbas that's not the case. This is what they doing throughout the books because it counts as a shahid. You know it

Speaker A

counts as a shahid because the narration that is mentioning that's a sh for it and this is a common trait of yours.

Speaker A

I've been watching your print outs that the way you recorded without permission in the same way you're deceiving people by printing out printouts and placing yellow lines on just a sentence taking it totally out of context. Then you

Speaker A

mentioned with regard to that I already covered I covered again by saying I covered that. I answered that. How is Muhammad sallallahu alaihi wasallam and we're going around in circles.

Speaker A

You didn't answer. I did. When will this happen? your main that you mentioned with regard to surah you say that Paul misguided only a small amount of people what you think isam went all the way to Kashmir stayed there

Speaker A

for well well over 70 80 years while Paul is going around and challenging James the disciple of Isaam the Christians claim he's the brother of Isaam and he deviates all the bani is Paul and Isa Alisam stays peacefully in

Speaker A

the snowy mountains of Kashmir that doesn't make any sense It goes against the Quran. As for what you mention and it's helm just means forbearance means forbearance. So what if he said is forbearance? I'm saying to you that if

Speaker A

Isaam talked he would defend his mother because the Jews carried on saying slanderous things about Miamisam even to the to the point that they carried on past the year 100 when according to you Isaam was alive in the

Speaker A

in Kashmir. He he would have defended his mother then as well but according to your reasoning he didn't. Then you also missed out the point with regard to why are you not taking this as contradicts your entire belief. We

Speaker A

believe is Alisam was not harmed in the least in that way because crucifixion entails disgrace. Yesam were killed. That is true. We're not denying that. But the Romans when they would disgrace the person who is crucified by taking his pants down and

Speaker A

displaying that to the entire world. We believe this will never happen to a ni of Allah subhana wa ta'ala that is disgraced in such a way. So means that Allah subhanahu wa ta'ala you didn't answer it and you said I said to

Speaker A

you said oh some it doesn't mean completely I said to no I'm not verbate him I'm saying the maf of what you were saying is that they could have harmed him somehow but I'm saying it contradicts grammar because

Speaker A

is is what in like revise you And what happens? It negates it completely. That contradicts your entire belief system. It brings down all the foundations that you've brought up. So I will remind you that come together. They come together. They

Speaker A

are and do not have true. They do not have. It doesn't mean it has to be. It can be true or false. Yes, they do not need to be one does of the other and that is the that is the

Speaker A

that what happens one tells us that is taken completely body and soul and tells us that he was raised otherwise remember and one more point you did not counter my point about I've said to you never the the jamaat

Speaker A

can never give their rules for I said to you you don't counter that I said to you this is why I mentioned you go after meaning you go onto interpretation based upon your own teachings it's not based upon anything

Speaker A

from what is known from the language of the Arabs instead you selectively like you did with the ayat Quran you selected each one has a like all the ayat you read about they all have a to another meaning all the ayat you read on they

Speaker A

all have a karina to the meaning of death or the meaning of sleep I gave you a third meaning which you asked for I provided that and that of course includes the entire debate none of these points I believe you can counter

Speaker A

just one So just the conclusion. Yeah. Left from your side. You ready? Yeah. Now, you mentioned your main in your conclusion that you gave me the third meaning of that's your da'wah. in your conclusion you're making your dawa your

Speaker A

is where we're disputing what does mean Allah took the soul of as Allah says I showed you means he believes it you didn't touch it you attached the but you didn't touch the imari is the taking of death the is of what is

Speaker A

taken if in mutaw it's the soul that is taken then obviously the rafa is of the soul and this was the allegation of the Jews which I explained to you that his soul didn't ascend Allah refuted them that I gave him a natural death then I

Speaker A

raised him I gave him spiritual exaltation you mentioned that every time is mentioned there's a wrong I mentioned Malik used these words for the prophet sallallahu alaihi wasallam I quoted this twice you didn't touch because it breaks your so-called

Speaker A

shattered because it's the taking of the soul. The prophet sallallahu alaihi wasallam used and is death. He explained it. I gave you the prophet sallallahu alaihi wasallam. I give you Quran. You gave me your own understanding from this third

Speaker A

thing is this is your da'wah. It's like a Christian comes to you brothers. A means three gods. You say give me he repeats the ayah that's your dawa my brother you have to bringal is brought from outside and none of your

Speaker A

ayah was you mentioned kaf I give you that it's used for the prophet sallallahu alaihi wasallam and sahabah when isam is persecuted you have an issue but when kufur the prophet sallallahu alaihi wasallam's feet were full of blood or when people do camel

Speaker A

intestines you smile you have no issue but with isam you have an issue prophets are killed no issue but is can't be touched even if I accept he wasn't touched touched. If a nabi isn't touched, is he bodily alive in disguise?

Speaker A

Our topic today wasn't is touched or not. It was is he alive with this in the You didn't prove that today my brother.

Speaker A

You brought no dala. You mentioned that hazmar was overwhelmed. Of course, he was overwhelmed. Hazat Abu Bakr proved to him that like all the mess before passed away, Nabi has also passed away.

Speaker A

You said this proves you're forgetting the word. I answered this in the debate. You didn't touch my point. People are watching. They will catch on to this deception. Not only this, you lied about again in when he mentioned

Speaker A

you said it means forbbearance. This is wrong. It doesn't mean forbearance there because quotes that and then he quotes other grammarians who dispute it. So it doesn't mean forbearance. It means age of strength.

Speaker A

Age of strength. I'll show you that. It's in my laptop. I'll show you that before um we started the Q&A. Yeah. I'll show you that reference where then refuted him that this isn't proven from so he wasn't being forbearance. So he's

Speaker A

talking about age is age. All of a sudden Allah isn't speaking of age. Do you think Imam Bkari's level was that low? He's doing jazam his belief was meaning age of strength and maturity. It's in Bkari.

Speaker A

Again, stopping me even in my confusion or it's or I'll check. It's two different meanings.

Speaker A

Let me show you right now. That's why you you're confusing me because I was responding to let me show you right now. You said and I responded to that. Now you're saying I can correct myself. No issue. And I can

Speaker A

give it to you right now. I have I brought that um it's in Bkari actually.

Speaker A

So it's haleem. Haleem is different to hul. What does haleem mean for you? You tell me you're in age of strength.

Speaker A

Yes. Age of strength and maturity. Strength and maturity. Yes, it does. It means forbearance.

Speaker A

No, it means strength and maturity. It means forbearance is age. So is age as well is forbearance.

Speaker A

No. Then why is he refueling it to other said it's not supported? I have a look at fat.

Speaker A

So look, show me from your AI. Um I don't have AI, brother. You're mocking. You came.

Speaker A

Sorry. Sorry. I meant your laptop, right? So I know it hurts, brother, when you have no answers. Here.

Speaker A

It doesn't hurt. It hurts that you're misquing it. It hurts a lot. You keep misquing.

Speaker A

You have to. Do you want to do you want to finish your turn? Okay, I'll finish my turn.

Speaker A

Cuz it's like the sixth or seventh interruption. Let's name finish and then he'll give it to you. So um then with he said he didn't touch again lying mentions in he mentions the son of then he answers why imari

Speaker A

he says some say maybe was the person was mistaken he thought both of others say the fat is explained by so knew of the chain you lied again you haven't been reading I don't know what you've been doing lately not only this other

Speaker A

points you mentioned you know I came with simple argument is death Allah says it's the taking of the soul body remains on the ground you had to bring the third you didn't do it in the conclusion you brought it with

Speaker A

your dava your dawa cannot be a I give you the example of the Christians if someone says and you say where does mean three he will say this ayah you've lost the debate according to your every ayah you

Speaker A

presented alhamdulillah I answered it you mentioned 120 years. Why wasn't Alam defending his mother in Kashmir brother?

Speaker A

By then she already passed away and the people the Jews were raising allegations on why you cutting me off. You mentioned in your conclusion why' you mention it then? So you mentioned things I don't answer.

Speaker A

This is imper don't mention it then you're going to get the answers. You're going to have back and forth. So you can do that in that you mentioned Paul misguiding people.

Speaker A

James defended Paul couldn't misguide anyone. He was disowned. Quran says wherever was there was no you didn't answer that his death happened I answered you didn't dare go back there to that point so everything I mentioned you didn't address anything I answered

Speaker A

all of your points alhamdulillah I answered it that the Jews attacking you alhamdulillah yourself said of course he defended his mother his whole life so is speaking in the age of maturity and he defended his mother in childhood and old age like we see in

Speaker A

surah Mariam No issue there at all. Then you mention I answer that. You're not listening.

Speaker A

Every nabi will do that. What is it? It's showing the even on I am the servant of Allah. It's talking about that that will always be a servant of Allah. You didn't address that. I explained that to you with ayat of the

Speaker A

Quran. You didn't go back to you said you know has to mean everyone will accept Islam in the end times. I give you two ayat of the Quran that will remain. You didn't even try. I give you two

Speaker A

kufar will remain. You mentioned Damascus 7 70,000 Jews with they didn't accept Islam either. So clearly your ayat is inabi right that also supports that it's about he goes back to the not the same ayah says he will only be a witness on camera. Did

Speaker A

you address that? No. I told you the ayah mentions two time periods and did you address it? No. I showed you that Haj refuted you and said that is the strongest chain and defends him.

Speaker A

Immuti said this is the best chin sha say it's the best chain. You denied it.

Speaker A

But did you answer that imari put it jazam? Did you even attempt? No. So he believed it and he was a part of our may Allah bless Im Bkari for making this so clear for everyone. As for the 120 of

Speaker A

these, we have authentic narrations to that. So you're indirectly attacking the heaven. It's attacking the Okay, I take that back. I take that. You said we deny. That's an insult as well, right? Is it not?

Speaker A

Well, you do deny. So you also attack. I don't say you attack. So denying isn't attacking.

Speaker A

No, but this is where the I take it back. I take it back. Okay. So that is proven from the prophet Islam with authentic narrations. I won't quote the book today because we're not allowed to go outside of Bkari and Muslim. Not

Speaker A

only this, no sahabi used to mean taking the body and soul up challenge. Bring me bro, bring me z. Bring me modu where nabi sallallahu alaihi wasallam said I can't because I'm asking you show me. Show me a from

Speaker A

where he is in the sun. There's no in it can be modu that is went up to the skies with his earthly body. You can't show me. There's nothing. So the Quran is died. The wii was our argument. You

Speaker A

didn't address it. You kept saying I said this, I said that. I've said nothing. You're attributing to me. Then you realize you made a mistake. You said I don't mean verbatim. This isn't how a debate works. I said like

Speaker A

I take all your money when Allah is finani is only the taking of the soul according to Quran. Bkari Muslim and the body remains on the ground on says Allah when you cause me to die this is the of my

Speaker A

master Muhammad sallallahu alaihi wasallam may Allah bless him who made it so clear for the believers he said is death to support it it means death I end with a quote of hazm he says remember very well you allowed to quote people like that

Speaker A

because it's out of the conditions I could quote I won't quote him. Sorry. Yeah.

Speaker A

So I end I end with one thing that Assar Rasheed no one will descend from heaven.

Speaker A

You await your future proies will wait. The Quran Bkari Muslim are clear died. Allah makes it clear two time periods.

Speaker A

He will only be a witness on K. Now he is not coming back. You couldn't provide a single dala. You said we're not discussing coming off again. We're not discussing coming back. Discussing raising. So there's not.

Speaker A

You're saying you're going to wait for we're not discussing. Okay. Okay. There's not You can quote the but I can't say even a hint to but you can quote any hadith you want is this fair to you continue please continue we don't want

Speaker A

30 seconds please so no one is coming okay the Quran is clear is died he is not returning there's noal you had you said you said means they didn't even touch him no this isn't what means this means the Jews plan they wanted to kill

Speaker A

Allah had a greater plan what is Allah's plan I will cause you to die a natural death you will reach your full age and fulfill your message. He was saying the tribes had spread out to Kashmir. I quoted an ayah for Kashmir. You can

Speaker A

laugh. I quoted an ayah. Did you touch it? No. I gave you ayah for Kashmir. You didn't even go there because you weren't able to. I end with Allahhammed Aliham.

Speaker A

This completes the initial debate except two sessions now which are left which is a 30-minut cross- examination which will be after a 10 to 12 minute break where people can have water do other stuff have discussion among your um you know

Speaker A

among yourselves and then after that we'll have um another session which is questions from the moderator there'll be four questions so we can start from each side one question from each side and also salah assur we read Do you need to do your salah here?

Speaker A

Uh we can delay our service. Uh we got time sufficient time. You got sufficient time for us. Okay. So we're going to go on a break now.

Speaker A

Inshallah we will turn after 10 to 12 minutes. 1 minute 58. Starting at 58.

Speaker A

Welcome back to debate, discussion, dialogue, whatever you want to call it. Alhamdulillah. By the grace of Allah, we've had a very fruitful discussion so far and uh of course it will be left for the public and the people that are

Speaker A

watching to make their own conclusions. Now we're going into a cross-examination part and I must emphasize that a cross-examination is not something that we we avoided or we would like to avoid in in a in a in a in a previous

Speaker A

discussion. There were four particular topics that were being discussed and of course the type of people that we were having a discussion with as well and it went over eight hours that was the reason but inshallah today this cross-

Speaker A

examination is happening at this moment in time. I will read out the conditions of this uh cross- examination. This will be for 30 minutes. Each party shall ask five questions. Questions shall alternate between the two parties. Each response shall be limited to 3 minutes.

Speaker A

No interruptions shall be permitted. So please at least for this session um let's make it cordial and respectful that we don't interrupt each other. The original rules regarding the use of the holy Quran and sah al bkari and sah

Speaker A

muslim shall continue to apply throughout the cross- examination and the order the order of question starts with uh rashi.

Speaker A

So I have the first question. Yes. So Razis my question to you is regarding how do you define if the mul is more than one because in the case of the question is this in the case of you

Speaker A

said there are only two which was death and sleep but that's not true because in Quran we have another there's a third dala yes there's a third dalala So this is three now.

Speaker A

So the being one it has to beal and this is action of Allah because the reward is given by Allah subhanahu wa ta'ala and my point was that the being with refers to complete taking and raising. So how

Speaker A

do you define when the is more than one when the definition ofal is for it to be one?

Speaker A

Yes. Before I start said can you tell me the verse inah bakar you'll find this. Check in your search engine.

Speaker A

Yeah. And it's not This is also useful. I know. I know. I'm just getting the exact verse. Just give me one second.

Speaker A

You're not this searching on the engine anymore. 281. It's okay. It doesn't then you can you can you can stop.

Speaker A

Do you want my laptop? I can give it to you for the No, meaning you're taking so much time to search. You should know the Okay, no worries. No worries. Okay, I'm ready to answer.

Speaker A

Ready? Start. Yeah. Look, a da was that the wii is the taking of the so at death. If you want it to mean sleep, you have to give karina of or so the is only one which is when Allah does, he takes the soul. Now

Speaker A

I I want to cry right now. Assari, you quoted surah bak verse 2281. My brother, you did. This isn't this is this is a different verb form. I agree with you on this. This wasn't even my da. Now I don't know. Were you

Speaker A

listening to me while I was speaking? Were you Don't cut me off the other.

Speaker A

Don't cut me off. phones. You can't restart now. Please, my time should restart. With respect, we've had a very good discussion.

Speaker A

Looks this is not our argument when Allah causes Allah in you said I have the 25 verses. You don't have them. Give this to him please. That's not that's not here.

Speaker A

We agree with you is always Allah taking in full the sole body remains on the ground. So you did of the Quran you should correct yourself. This is not our challenge is show us some bkari Muslim or the Quran where

Speaker A

Allah is defiled in it means other than taking the soul or death anywhere in Bkari anywhere in Muslim anywhere in the Quran we didn't talk about this this you can find 18 times in the Quran my brother I can help

Speaker A

you you can have my laptop we can read those ayat so brother the da'wah was Allah is Insan is root word is in it always means death or the taking of the soul. And what you did in your

Speaker A

entire debate is at the end in the last seconds when you knew you had nothing.

Speaker A

What you did is you tried to make your dawa your and this is called where you make your claim your mass.

Speaker A

You cannot do this. You cannot make your da your I gave the example of the Christians and you took a step further my brother. You quoted 18 times in the Quran it's used this way. We don't disagree on this. I was

Speaker A

quoting babal. This means two things. Number one either you didn't study this topic well or number two you weren't listening to me. There's no other option here or someone from the crowd or someone messaged you this ayah and they

Speaker A

misguided you. There's no other option brother. This isn't Show me. It means only taking Muslim is here. Show me today. You can Your time's up now. Is your Is your time to ask the question? Uh are you ready?

Speaker A

Just one second. Yeah, I'm ready. Please ask your question. So my question is related to what you said. Is there anywhere in Quran where Allah is in Allah does okay and it's not taking the so it's taking the body into disguise has the prophet

Speaker A

sallallahu alaihi wasallam given this or has any sahhabi saidwi here means the body and ru is taken up to disguise if you have this third meaning of not your mis of present that from the Quran and do not make your dawa your

Speaker A

is the dawa you had to prove tawi means this is like an example I give for example I'm with a brother I tell him the food in the oven became gold he checks the food in the oven it's burned

Speaker A

he comes to me you said it became gold yes by gold I meant burned it's never been used like that to prove it you have to give a delete.

Speaker A

Okay, I'm glad you asked this question so I can counter what you said in the previous question with regard to it's not only inclusive because the word is from the and depending on the that's utilized some of the distinctions in as you studied inf

Speaker A

you know that if it goes under it comes in the meaning of if it goes under it means it changes the meaning slightly but the is you admitted and you're smiling because you know what I'm saying is true taking of something

Speaker A

completely and then I also asked you what is the if it's not one then it's not you don't even answer that question you don't you avoided that question the let's say for argument sake I agree with you two medulina

Speaker A

And all these this you gave this was taken this is not your research. This is the Jamaat has been saying this for 125 years because we know what the origin of this is. If you check it's the is always

Speaker A

there for what it means. There is at the time of the death and the is there also the is always there telling us what means but when it comes to there's no mention of death in the ayatan there's no mention of sleep so

Speaker A

the scholars started to differ some of them said death the the some of them said momentarily death some of them said momentarily sleep but all of them agreed isam was taken up but the majority said means to take completely and the

Speaker A

proves that is taken up completely so you've actually agreed with me again because you know and doesn't matter what the original meaning even if I say it still comes in the meaning of complete because it's It still has that's why is known as

Speaker A

loyalty because you're loyalty to the whole person. In the dictionaries it mentions if I say I gave you this money completely. So means took you completely and then supports this also. So the is you made it the debate is finished. It's

Speaker A

done over. The debate is done. Isaam was raised and actually proves that point. The surah Ali ayah is not proof for you and neither is any other ayat that you have mentioned.

Speaker A

Okay. Okay. Ass you you're asking the next question. Yes. So you can So we have five questions in total. Yes.

Speaker A

Yes. Two being asked. So ones you've asked, once you've asked. Yes. And in total we're going to have 10 questions.

Speaker A

Yeah. So five questions. Okay. Yeah. My question to you now is regarding the balia which you said is and I'm sure you've read you've read all these books you're you're for the jamaat. So here the bal is my question is from the

Speaker A

time according to you when isam was placed on the cross beaten on the cross denigrated by the Christian Romans on the cross and then taken down and then revived himself didn't die revived himself and went to Kashmir how can and

Speaker A

then he lived 120 years and you didn't understand my point about Paul it was while Paul is causing mischief where the one person follows him or two is Alisam doesn't intervene doesn't stop Paul's mischief and then even though he's sent

Speaker A

to Ban is from Bal all the way to Isaam when he goes to Kashmir and dies in Kashmir how can you contradict the bal of the grammar number one and within that is what's your proof for this from Quran

Speaker A

Bkari and Muslim oh Sorry. Are you ready? Yeah. Yeah. Start please. Yeah. So, we accept, no issue with that. What we explained to you in the debate as well, you weren't listening, is if someone isn't killed or crucified, the

Speaker A

after which is the taking of the soul at death. So, the raw is of what was taken in the soul. As for your time lapse, Allah explains the time lapse already that they want to kill you and I won't

Speaker A

mention the they say this means I will give you full. So despite them knowing thatal is mentioned they agree that the meaning is I will give you your full age. So despite it being for Allah 120 years isn't a time lapse which exceeds here it

Speaker A

means I will cause you a natural death in the this is what means you are indirectly attacking your own means so they agreed the full age being given is not against secondly the is being addressed to the coal of the yahood

Speaker A

time. That's the context. This is their first goal. Then that what they said we killed him, we crucified him. Their claim was he died on the cross. He was put to death on the cross.

Speaker A

His soul didn't ascend. He is an a cursed. Allah responded that no, he wasn't an a cursed. I gave him that nearness to me. So it's responding to that. And Rafa answers the illegitimate birth allegation as well. How does a

Speaker A

physical body ascending to the skies answer the allegation of an illegitimate birth? It doesn't. Their allegation was that his soul didn't ascend. Allah responded, I will give you your full age cause you to die. I will take your soul. You tried

Speaker A

correcting yourself. You said yes, I know it's not brother. Our discussion was on. You quoted another Bob and you messed up again. You messed up again.

Speaker A

You said means to take in full. No, it means to give in full. You messed up again. As Rasheed said that ayah you quoted isn't I will take a from you. I will give a soil is coming to give. So

Speaker A

Allah gave some what? Full age. If you want to make and do of Quran, what did Allah give him? His full age. So you did of the Quran. Then to defend yourself, you said no means to take in full. No, it means

Speaker A

to give in full. So these are two mistakes you made already. And I corrected you. I answered I explained the time lapse according to your own in front of you I will give you full age so there's no

Speaker A

time lapse issue there it's about the call of the yahood and when they said that tomafa already happened ni facing persecution you believe am were killed nabi faced persecution this doesn't mean anything if wasn't even touched doesn't mean he's

Speaker A

alive in disguise with this earthly body time up now razi your question to Yeah.

Speaker A

So my second question to Rashid is that the Quran is clear that is has two time periods and while he was with them while he was not his is what separated him from the um okay two time periods. Then Allah says

Speaker A

this comes for when Zaman is mentioned then the fail is mentioned then this means that now he will be a witness on Kyama just like all will be the prophet sallallahu alaihi wasallam will be the greatest witness on kyama. So the Quran

Speaker A

is clear he had two time periods what differentiate him took him from his um isawi which according to the Quran is it taking at death or sleep when night or sleep is mentioned sallallahu alaihi wasallam interpret death. So my question

Speaker A

clear question to you is is there a third time period mentioned of Isaam in the Quran anywhere?

Speaker A

In response to your question, the ayah that you mentioned in surah and the conversation of with Allah subhana wa ta'ala is specific to the period when he left Bani is and ascended and that particular group of Bani is to the

Speaker A

Alam were misguided is mentioning when he says him that as long as he remained amongst them he's referring to that particular period of time. That is a conversation relating to that time. And why it's important to mention this is because when certain

Speaker A

translators you mentioned they say your full age will be given to you as you quoted they are saying that yes your full age will be given to you means when you come down in the end of times this is the part of the that you do

Speaker A

you're giving the interpret translation of that part you're not telling everyone that they translated that as we are mut we are giving your uh lifespan to you means until you descend in the end of times and your entire lifespan will be

Speaker A

given to you. It doesn't mean we give you death. They're not saying that at all. So they are actually acknowledging that. And with regard to and I didn't say the with regard to that I said to you the m the ma ma means the root words

Speaker A

the j you know the j the is the same when you change the verab the essence is the same and the the impart different meanings. So if I say if I say if I say and if I say

Speaker A

they carry the same root meaning so the conversation on is regarding the period of time when isam was raised but according to you that contradicts your belief why because according to you he was in Kashmir so he should say he

Speaker A

should say to Allah subhana wa tala ya Allah you kept me alive in Kashmir 80 years and while I was in Kashmir they they got misguided did and they and the question Allah subhana wa ta'ala should ask is why didn't you go away from

Speaker A

Kashmir and go back to Palestine and guide them this contradicts the the ayah contradicts your belief because then in that period of time what was he doing in Kashmir what what was and you you I was shocked you said

Speaker A

is in reference to Kashmir it's shocking that you would even say that where's that in Quran Bkari and Muslim there's no such thing in In fact, even hind the word hind only appears in one or two hadith of the of in the even Kashmir

Speaker A

doesn't appear. So on according to you isam was sitting in Kashmir while all the Christians were misguided and then say oh Allah you took me away you gave me death but I didn't go back.

Speaker A

Time thank you s your question now. I think this is the fifth question. Yeah. So it's my question then.

Speaker A

Your question. Yes. It was Raz. So Shar started. This is my third question. Yeah.

Speaker A

Then Assra asked. Then Razi asked. This was your question before. This is my third question.

Speaker A

This is the question you're answering was over his right. Yeah. Yes. Yeah. This is your third question.

Speaker A

This is my third question. In totality is the fifth question. Yeah. Yes. Okay. Razi when you say was in reference to you said it's limited now by this goes against the definition of and if you limit it you you're talking

Speaker A

there's it doesn't make any sense. So can you explain to me through grammar cuz uh Mulvi Nurudin Haki memorized Ali Malik. He he knew Alfi Malik. So your Jamaat studied grammar. So you explain to me how if is there as the how that remains

Speaker A

as how can it remain? Please explain that. Okay. You ready? Yeah. First you you said that that time is only about Isaam till his you added a new now hazam wasn't worshiped till 400 years later so it can't be for that time

Speaker A

not only this the Kashmir point you mentioned maim includes Kashmir too there was no shik there wherever is went there was no shik the ayat was the shik started after he died his nation went to after he died his disciples didn't go so

Speaker A

obviously it happened much later as for your question right now accepted that means I will give you full age but this means after this destroys your argument on bal you were saying such a long time lapse of 120 years you just refuted your

Speaker A

entire muk of bal because you accepted yeah they say it means when he comes back that's 2,000 plus years that's not a long time but 120 is a long time for you so you refuted your bal argument yourself alhamdulillah as for your

Speaker A

question right now about my brother Muhammad sallallahu alaihi wasallam is only a messenger. This was revealed battle of Allah is consoling the believers that do not worry even ifallam passes away the dean of Allah will remain what is the for that because

Speaker A

before have passed away. How did they pass away? There's a famous muas of yours. I won't name him because I can't name him. Under this ayah, you ascribe yourself to him.

Speaker A

Under this ayah, he said it's like when Musa Alam said, "Worship me and then is said worship me." When they died, then people went against their claim. So they agree that includes all of them. In fact, your biggest

Speaker A

scholars, they also include Isaam and Arul. And I ask you the question is included inul in the isam included or is he excluded then you have to tell us who else is alive same is it all messenger messengers there or

Speaker A

no Allah further explains they used to eat food they're not eating anymore and he puts him and in the same category and Allah says he never gave the messages bodies that didn't eat food. So the ayatala in the of the

Speaker A

sahaba is clear. In fact in that jar bin mah used to say what is when the people of bahin became apostates he said for he said his name that what is your view about isam and musam. Then he said

Speaker A

like he included. So did Abu Bakr when he said if one is alive doesn't hold your question now to say this is my third question or fourth yes it's the sixth question so it's yours one to the third question my third

Speaker A

my third question okay look my question is simple I won't take long okay it's again about the same topic okay My simple question to you is do you today hold the belief believing Allah is watching everything who was

Speaker A

is he inul here or do you exclude him from in this ayah is that your question that's my question I'm glad you asked this question because it relates to the previous uh what you mentioned because your greatest scholar

Speaker A

because you cited our scholars said even Musa Ala Alisam's alive in the heavens and that's found in his works but I'm not citing it the way you cited so what I would want to mention with regard to that I can give you two answers

Speaker A

Razab you never even answered whether it's how lulra remains you evaded that Razab are you I'm writing I'm writing this is why I think you're using AI because you're typing away this is not AI brother it's Microsoft the thing is that look

Speaker A

includes is immersive of every prophet, every messenger. I'm saying to you it's lu jins. So lu jins means the it's a grouping the group of prophets. There could be exceptions and yes I believe there are exceptions. Yes. But if

Speaker A

someone even says if someone says for argument sake and this is what your undercover recording was that if someone says it's and includes every messenger we believe that there have been people who've been their soul was taken and

Speaker A

they were brought back to life like and this is where you're caught out very bad because when Allah subhana wa ta'ala says regarding that Allah gave him death the word isal is suddenly with you make it and when

Speaker A

Allah says I gave death to is not named but we know it's who's referred to that ayah in when it says Allah gave him death for 100 years you're going to go and say it's maj and this is where the question you avoided a

Speaker A

question that what is your rule for you haven't given a rule for so when you asked me with regard to I'm saying to even if you say we can answer and even if you say we can answer and say

Speaker A

you do not mention the full that is what he was referring to that will pass away and you mentioned one one coal which we're not going to analyze that because you're not supposed to be presenting that that's not from Bkari

Speaker A

and Muslim the co you presented of was it jar that is not so he's violated the condition I didn't mention the book you mentioned him citation but by the way you said could you bring weak narrations of Abdahb Abbas I can present them but I'm

Speaker A

not going to do that but here you evade Allah subhanaa tala said Allah gave death to for 100 years and then revived him. You deny that because it will go against your entire theory of death regarding.

Speaker A

Thank you. Your fourth question. So my fourth question is regarding uh that what is your rule for?

Speaker A

What is your rule? What rule do you does your Jamaat follow that suddenly you can make you can inter everything because we know that someone in your Jamaat said that the train is the donkey of the Jal for instance. what rule is utilized

Speaker A

sometimes you take meaning like you take you say it's death but in reality it's a homonym but when it comes to clear wording in the Quran Allah gave him death you go on to meaning so this is why I said there's no in

Speaker A

names I gave you that rule in the beginning I want to know you from a clear-cut rule that we can apply by what is your rule when you go on because what we read in in is different to what you come out with.

Speaker A

Yeah. So we ready? Yeah. Firstly, Rasheed lied against the promised mess saying he believed Mus Alam is alive. I have Nurak in front of me. He was speaking of Alia.

Speaker A

I didn't quote him. You but you didn't quote him. I can then go on to now he's he's going breaking the conditions because you you just mentioned a point but I didn't mention the name you made can you claim

Speaker A

I didn't mention your I didn't mention your prophet mention one sec you you made a claim he can't address it he can address the claim he can address the claim without naming because I did he didn't name the am that and I didn't

Speaker A

name I didn't name the promise reset my that will make an issue for you yeah yeah I'm sticking to the rules okay no M okay he attacked a certain person that he believed Musa Alam is alive he lied

Speaker A

because the person in his book says that no all messages before the prophet sallallahu alaihi wasallam and have died and Musam has also died that spiritual life which allah get in the authentic narration so we accept that so

Speaker A

you misqued the promised messam not only this you mentioned if Alam is alive in the skies bodily He was given life. How does that mean is alive? It doesn't in any way whatsoever.

Speaker A

So we have dala from the Quran that and none of the dead return. Okay, this is the first point. Now as for your question about I have many points on that. Look, when the prophet sallallahu alaihi wasallam said

Speaker A

when the prophet sallallahu alaihi wasallam said the same hadith says you are on record saying you will take maj because the cannot be taken because Quran isalam died and will never return all those hadith you have to doaw and the prophet

Speaker A

sallallahu alaihi wasallam himself said imum so he explained Why it cannot be taken as the inul are clear even in the Quran for example are like the of the past is used for not for the same people I can't say if I say

Speaker A

for example is a line and I'm using it for it doesn't mean you're an actual line there has to be resemblance so are like the ones of the past because Quran is didn't borally go up you have to do. Now

Speaker A

you mentioned a dangerous point. You said that names cannot be taken in maj like this.

Speaker A

Not majara. You said you said difference. Yes, I know there's a difference in there's no of I know very well. And there's various types.

Speaker A

I know. I know there is Abu Syan Bkari Abi. The Arabs were well known for using names for as well.

Speaker A

in the Quran there's no there my brother so you were mistaken on this again near his deathkari no there my brother no it's so can be used if with for human beings with names as well and not only this it there's

Speaker A

many examples from your books where they say There's many ashar like that. So they're using name for it's throughout your literature. I gave you bkari. I gave you the prophet sallallahu alaihi wasallam.

Speaker A

I gave you. So names are used for as well. Your fourth question now please.

Speaker A

Yes. Um yeah going smoothly. Alhamdulillah. Fourth question is um just let me get the page out. Yes, Assar said, "My fourth question, brother, you just need a few seconds to answer. It's really simple. My question to you is when Bkari

Speaker A

put in Sah Bkari according to him to Im Bukari, is that narration authentic? and the Abi Talha chain according to Imuti right who wrote Alan does he say anywhere in Alith Khan does he ever say this I'm giving you a hint here said

Speaker A

does he say that this is the most authentic why is it mansub because there's a whole you want me to read the whole paragraph for you so he says um Uh so it's I apologize and then he quotes all the ayat where

Speaker A

the chain. So is it the most authentic chain according to Alan from Immad and Sha and is it jam which means it's authentic according to my beloved Imkari this is my thank you very much for uh the question

Speaker A

what I want to say with regard to the Mus Alisam quote from your uh past figure here's the quote I'm not going to cite it I have it I have said you have it but you misquote I've I've

Speaker A

given the full quote here I Don't misquote like you with regard to your question. I'm glad you asked this question. There's even on this issue amongst the ims and for instance the book is of can you mention that wasn't my question

Speaker A

sorry I'm asking a question sorry just for my can can can you mention the names in this you can mention but that wasn't my question I asked are according to these people no I'm going to mention this okay it's

Speaker A

to do with I'm he Yes. So of they actually have regarding the of the of the are you listening?

Speaker A

Yes. Yes. Yeah. They actually have on this. It's not a one opinion states otherwise in you might find another narration in a different position of and you might find a different position. So that's with regard to I said to you read out the quote in

Speaker A

of you can check it on your search engine. He says the entry 4,754 uh he says regarding him he lived in heal he did not directly narrate from he didn't see him he's from the seventh sixth grouping in

Speaker A

he says truthful but what does he say he makes mistakes That's what he says in there's other quotes. This is from as well.

Speaker A

He says immed the immul he says he has writes and likewise there are others who are quoting as saying he didn't even hear the from him and likewise says He's actually he's not what? He's not praiseworthy. This is

Speaker A

what he states. I have the quotes here. I've read these all. You've read them, but you never quoted them. You you did your cover up. Did you ask me question? This Roani Kazin uh sorry, the reference I gave you

Speaker A

regarding Mus Alam. You I gave you the quote. He says Mus Alam was in the heavens alive.

Speaker A

Do you want him to address it? No. No. I'm saying the way but here Ali what I've mentioned to you that's here and I also answered regarding the the Bkari is not agreed upon is not agreed upon that when he says

Speaker A

I answered it. Subhan Allah. He said that's what he said. So last questions now your question.

Speaker A

It's my question. Yes. Yes. Okay. So with regard to uh of course the questions have to be on the subject.

Speaker A

Yes. Mazi bkari. Yeah. Example of a sahabi being raised to the heavens. Yes. I think it's to fail mentioning he was killed and his body was taken to the heavens. This is an example of where it has been done in the past

Speaker A

relating to you. The question is of the prophet ascending to the heavens. We believed this. This is the question. So pay attention please. The B is and the is and body and soul. Allah subhana wa ta'ala made his beloved

Speaker A

sallallahu alaihi wasallam travel up to the heavens be by body and soul and brought him back down showing his greatness. He sallallahu alaihi wasallam this happened in the past. So these are two examples. This shows that this happens and there can be other examples.

Speaker A

So my question to you is how do you understand because it relates to yeah just and the raising of the sahabi.

Speaker A

Okay that that was your fifth question. Yes. Final question. You ready? Just one second.

Speaker A

Okay. Yeah. Start your time. So firstly Asar Rashid you said you read it in context. This is page 69. on page 70 h someone says someone Greek who passed away now is he allowed to quote at some sources I

Speaker A

didn't want him to read no I don't quote okay let's stop it let's stop it the point is it's it's a bit difficult because when you raise an allegation on a particular book but he don't want him to address it

Speaker A

no you can address it without reading it from the just address it tell us yeah I won't read it I'm sorry I'm sorry my question can you just answer the question just answer without pass that back as well I want to see the

Speaker A

okay they should have g you the next page restart my time. So on the next page he explains that all messengers before hazat is also on the very next page you said you read the context this is talking about allyah

Speaker A

being alive and there's more proof for Mus Alam's life than other so if is bodily alive then Mus Alam is also alive it's talking about life my brother you misqued the brother deceived you didn't give you the next page this is unjust

Speaker A

just he put you through this. I apologize on his behalf. Now the next thing about your question which you mentioned you mentioned brother why did you misquote the hadith you said what's after that his body came back down except for isam his body went

Speaker A

up and right away came back down it's a bkari the prophet sallallahu alaihi wasallam never said it nor did any other when that person said it he's the one who killed so we take it to mean and all are alive.

Speaker A

So all go through this. But you didn't say the next point that when his body one person is singing and then it fell down. Don't cut me off. Don't cut me off. Don't cut me off. The body came

Speaker A

right back down except that for his body went a bit up and came right back down.

Speaker A

He passed away. He passed away like all. So Rufi sama is mentioned for you couldn't show me Rufi sama. Okay, you mentioned mirage, my brother. Today our topic wasn't mirage.

Speaker A

You're using another da'wah for your original. But I'll explain our view to you. We believe the mirage happened 100% happened with the prophet sallallahu alaihi wasallam. But we prove from Bkari and the Quran that it wasn't this earthly body rather he was given a

Speaker A

spiritual body through which he went through the mirage and this is proven through Sahel Bkari. For example, in Bkari there's actually contradictions regarding the mirage. But the prophet sallallahu alaihi wasallam says I was in a state of wakefulness. I was given a

Speaker A

golden basin of wisdom. Is wisdom justif. Then it ends by saying he was sleeping state of wakefulness and sleep and Allah you know granted him.

Speaker A

What does Mirage prove? Hazam died because the prophet sallallahu alaihi wasallam in Mirage he saw the ambia and your agree he met and is with yaham was it yaham's body their life cycle is the same according to the Quran mirage ps is right if

Speaker A

someone tells us there's a fire in the school we will believe him shahada that he saw the souls of but you're not willing to accept that so the mirage wasn't bodily and Quran calls it a roya in surah

Speaker A

Allah according to the Quran is just a dream and he can mean in a vision as well because there time's over. Last question from you. Um my last question.

Speaker A

Yes, your last question to say please ask. Okay. So said my last question for you today inshallah is a simple question which is that you mentioned I've read all of those quotes you mentioned okay before you say them I

Speaker A

know what you're mentioning just let me finish it's my question now I'm not interrupting I just can have that volume the one you never read you can have this my question to you is simple look look let's not have a dick the one

Speaker A

he hasn't never He doesn't even have to give it to you. Wait, what did he say? Give me the volume. The one I never read. Never read.

Speaker A

Okay. You want that volume? The volume you don't accept. At least I accept what I read. You don't even accept what you're read. The Quran you read, you're not accepting that today.

Speaker A

Let's get Let's stick to the question. So my question is simple. You keep mentioning incorrectly that he said that he would make mistakes. My question to you is simple, brother. Please answer carefully. This is my simple question to you is did he say

Speaker A

has he said this that when I found out the I did not have any issue and did imi mention this and give the narrations of Bkari with Jazam. Okay, pass that simple question. I'm not asking you about just answer this question. Did he

Speaker A

say this or no? Okay, with regard to this uh particular question that you've asked, you know these you said you said with regard to that sahabi that's you reject aith in Bkari you rejected a full sun hadith in Bkari.

Speaker A

you rejected it and you said and you go onto a chainless hadith a hadith that has no chain of narration and you make a whole argument based on that. How can you do that? Secondly, the I said it's

Speaker A

for and the body and soul. You never answered that. It's a it's a grammatical point but and the body and soul for the you said is contradicting in Bkari. We believe maj multiple times but only once with body and soul. The all the other

Speaker A

hadiths are the the dreams and the the dreams that you mentioned. So that's a simple response with regard to this this quote that you've presented. I didn't lie about I said I read to you from where he said he quotes I said to you

Speaker A

it's now this quote that you are presenting he is saying that with regard to certain chains he finds a was not regarding the of Abbas on the and even if it is even if it is I said to you that you will never present the

Speaker A

entire school of Ibn Abbas like Hajalani knew Alani knew the entire school. He in fact imari had our belief. Whyab of Bkari they all have our belief. Bkari wrote those unlike in the of im Muslim imari in his

Speaker A

he mentions the coming back of that is the belief of imari. It's the belief of abdahbas.

Speaker A

So you have no grounds to keep quoting this and even then the the from the Quran which I've proven in and all of that has been proven this quote regarding sometimes he can prove the of doesn't negate anything of what I've

Speaker A

mentioned today and of course uh a comprehensive answer could be given in a longer time But I will say to you on this that do not just go on this uh onear you rejected one whole chain narration of Bkari when it suits you you

Speaker A

reject Bkari with chains of narration and when it doesn't suit you you try proving what you know the Abbas he said is only four five words in Bkari you rejected everything else you went by five words in Bkari and you made an

Speaker A

entire argument regarding that this is a a a a methodology that you have is that nonconsistent methodology that you were unable to even define.

Speaker A

Time is up. Thank you so much. The last question, right? No, it's done now. You had the last question.

Speaker A

It's finished. So now is the time for the audience that sat here. Uh do you need the reference? Do you need something from that?

Speaker A

Um no no it's fine. Okay. So now the questions will come from the audience that is here in the hall and if we have time maybe from YouTube inshallah we'll start from the brothers uh who are our guest today

Speaker A

whatever question you have so one question from your side one from this side there'll be a total of four questions so you mentioned sorry thank you so for is and this has come up a number of times in the debate that

Speaker A

central to the belief of your is that as your her belief passed away in Kashmir after having left the cross after being crucified.

Speaker A

One thing you mentioned when you mentioned the ayah of the Quran that it gives is towards Kashmir actually said the Quran gives so a bit more than just ishara that the Quran testifies to this and then gave a great

Speaker A

deal of detail thatatam again as per your belief was crucified came close to the point of death came off the cross attended to his wounds went with his mother via Iran Afghanistan settled in Kashmir and then says elsewhere in the that his resting

Speaker A

place is. So the first part of my question is where is this explicitly mentioned in the primary sources of al Islam in that degree of detail. The second part of the question and on on the same vein and on

Speaker A

the same theme is that Mira Sahib did believe for a period of time in his life that was raised to the heavens that he would return. In one instance he says about a 12-year period this is in you'll already

Speaker A

know but sorry is this one question yeah it's part of the same question so that for 12 years mahib said that he remained and to the fact that he had been appointed the ms and he says that he continued to subscribe to the of the

Speaker A

of the second coming of said however later I believe later at least you can correct me if if I'm wrong. In Islam, he says that he was given.

Speaker A

So rather than simply saying that he was and he learned this later, he says in fact I knew for this entire period I was. So in conclusion, primary sources, where is that detailed account of Isa and his mother Alimam as per your belief

Speaker A

going to Kashmir? Secondly, when you have something that's changed so drastically in the belief of one individual that snaatam as per the creed of Islam was raised and would return, how could that have been abregated as an objective fact of

Speaker A

history that this wasn't the case? Thirdly, did Mira Sahib know in the first 12-year period that I cited that he was the Messiah but continue to subscribe to the belief in the second coming of Isaatam or is the second instance correct that

Speaker A

he was in fact that I just hid it from the people? Understood. I think you quite long question. So is there just three minutes for that?

Speaker A

I'll give you an extra I'll give you four minutes. Quite a long seven questions in there.

Speaker A

We can answer. Yeah. Okay. So firstly brother you mentioned that the prophet sallall alaihi wasallam says gawwahi is in the Quran theatin ayah we've never claimed that Quran mentions the name Kashmir many ambia passed away Allah doesn't mention where

Speaker A

they passed away in the Quran so this we never claim that we will show you Kashmir in the Quran with the word so we accept it's no issue with that what's he passed away you kept saying we believe he was crucified we don't

Speaker A

the word in The Quran is always used. You can check in your own time to be put to death on cross. We negate that wasn't it was attempted crucifixion but Allah protected him. Yeah. So he was he was

Speaker A

protected. Right. So that's one thing. Then you um mention that originally believed is alive in the skies. My brother the Quran is clear about the prophets of Allah. They speak when Allah opens it up to them. For example Allah told the prophet

Speaker A

sallallahu alaihi wasallam Allah said he is Allah said Allah told the prophet sallallahu alaihi wasallam long before that he is the greatest he has sent for all mankind but he would say when people say do not say I'm greater than mammall till

Speaker A

Allah told him you are then he announced and they explained that this these statements were before he knew of soam I brought for you where he mentions about he on the same p says Allah has said I am a part of this prophecy only

Speaker A

that part is the other part is like nabi sallallahu alaihi wasallam bkari when abdahbul passed away ni started praying Allah said even if you pray 70 times we won't forgive him then nbi sallallahu alaihi wasallam said I will pray more

Speaker A

than that then he corrected himself and stopped praying so hazat You the full meaning he took Allah was telling him he would do that look Allah is calling me this means I'm like because then he said when Allah revealed it like rain I

Speaker A

checked is this based on Qurani Muslim when he noticed that he announced it before that he only announced what Allah explained to him like Allah says in the Quran that after the ilm is presented then if you go against it then you are

Speaker A

aim otherwise I'm free of this for example the prophet sallallahu alaihi wasallam originally denied a zabi you're well aware of this then when Allah told him then he announced that yes there is a so he was told we've made you he would doaw

Speaker A

and this shows his humility like when was told he is the messenger of Allah he the signs who were clear that he's the greatest he would still say when Allah made it explicit to the prophet died then he announced it before

Speaker A

that he would doaw when he realized Quran hadithal he died he announced it no one was able to respond to him after that thank you so much for that I think I think it depends on the question I'm not

Speaker A

going to restrict I was saying to you I think within four five five minutes because the purpose is that the question is clarified and people understand the answer So the next question is from from the Muslim Jamaat Zishan.

Speaker A

Um my question is about um as you know and as we in our debates we've presented our petition is that according to the death of Jesus according to is proven through um verses in a which are which means

Speaker A

clear and conclusive evidence and in your presentation today as far As far as I heard and if you correct me if I'm wrong, there was no hadith or verse which is proving that Jesus is alive in the heaven today. Um and instead the

Speaker A

verses which were presented were could be understood to be which were open to multiple interpretations to prove that other verses wereal.

Speaker A

So my question is simple. Can you present to the viewers the the common viewers the people who are watching all over the world one single explicit Quranic verse or hadith which proves that satanisam is alive in the heavens

Speaker A

today and the follow-up question is if which is part of this question is if such an explicit text exists then on what basis or if no such explicit text exists and on what basis can a belief such as belief in the life of Jesus be

Speaker A

made considered fundamental? on the basis of while there are verses which are which are being interpreted contrary to the I hope my question is clear. Okay, just to answer your question firstly, you said that the death of Isaamala

Speaker A

ayat and hadith were presented with the ayat thei is notala that's I made that very clear because the when you sayala it means what it refers to is one thing the word is notala similarly the is notala because it's

Speaker A

chainless in bkari it's one narration when there are multiple narrations this is why the debate was limited to Bkari and Muslim because there are numerous narrations 28 Sahabah narrate regarding Isaam.

Speaker A

So to come to your point what verse is the the ayat Quran that I recited regarding we are saying that isal and I perhaps the grammatical points past people when I said that point didn't get answered what that

Speaker A

meant is the bal here you know the word bal it negates everything that comes before it and then Allah subhana t says he wasn't killed rather he was raised And I was saying that the raising isala the the raising isala the fact he wasn't

Speaker A

killed wasala the fact that he was taken completely isala how because mutaf means to take completely and it's with to raise you and even mas believed this before look you people respect as a prophet of Allah but prior to what

Speaker A

was That hadith actually has a context. It was contextual to when the prophet sallallahu alaihi wasallam saw unasam doing hajj in and he said do not give me superiority of ununas regarding that that particular thing or similarly he

Speaker A

said do not give me superiority to mus alisam because on day of judgment mus alisam will stand up near the arsh and stand up there's a context to those hadith otherwise we know sallallahu alaihi wasallam is the greatest likewise

Speaker A

there is no nusk abrogation in information. Allah doesn't abregate information. If Allah subhana wa ta'ala tells us this will happen, it doesn't change. Abrogation occurs in rulings. I say to you don't do this, do this. There can be abrogation. But I can't tell you

Speaker A

false beliefs and then afterwards change that false belief. There is no nusk in belief. So masai believed what we believe before. He he according to you he was alim great alim. He wrote in Arabic. Did he not notice that this

Speaker A

isala? Did he? Of as an alim he would know this isala. Therefore that your claim that he believed this before actually supports us. As an he knew this isal that this is dalal in the Quran.

Speaker A

Therefore I believe because if it was he would have rejected it and he would have adopted sir Seyad's belief because sir Seyad was the first one who came out with the belief that it means death and Issa won't return. He actually came out

Speaker A

with that in the early 1800s in his commentary. So to sum up the answer the is theala proof that we are presenting.

Speaker A

Thank you for that. Second question from So my question for is from my understanding from your entire presentation your main evidence is mutaw your main evidence is just because Isaam has tasted death even if you take your interpretation of it

Speaker A

how does that prove that he is he is currently dead or how does that prove why can't it be that he is currently alive in the sky that's a false dichotomy fallacy either m or the third option which hass believed and others

Speaker A

believed that Isaam tasted death for a very short period of time and then he was resurrected and this is not something foreign to our faith Allahh mentioned this asked this question I don't think I don't believe he responded

Speaker A

regarding for a this is the word is used that Allah subhanahu wa ta'ala he gave him death for 100 years and then he resurrected him so this is not something foreign to our faith so how do you get past this

Speaker A

false dichotomy fallacy of you saying just because there is m we've proven mud there has to be there cannot be this is a fallacy I would like you to address this fallacy Yeah.

Speaker A

Okay. Brother Jaf firstly said just for you to know we accept the abar. We accept and all of those ab. So we accept.

Speaker A

As for you said that it's the taking of soul and then the rafise of the soul. Now the thing brother what you just asked me right now is a really good question.

Speaker A

said that you know your main evidence is my main evidence was that on Isaam says the shik of the Christians started after he died and there's only two time periods and there's no third time period so he didn't get life again and he won't

Speaker A

return because Quran restricts it to two time periods then Allah says now he's only a witness on not only this Allah says in the Quran regarding life cycle life cycle there's only three cycles born then die then resurrected on like all believers

Speaker A

in his life cycle Allah mentions in surahim the same life cycle asatam word for word so if you want to believe he was given death then taken up alive except the same for yaham now you're saying why can't we believe this brother

Speaker A

we can believe anything but is it in the Quran and a hadith no That's why I don't believe it. If the Quran in a hadith said is alive in disguise with his body, I have no issue.

Speaker A

We're not modernists. I should from the Quran and of that's the wolf faith and he means death and there's no third period of mentioned anywhere in the Quran. This is why we can't accept it because it's against the

Speaker A

Quran. Quran says he died and he never came back because Allah says and this is that now only you were the witness and I have video with me he saysam negates being a witness over this ponder over this brother I have the video here

Speaker A

he says negates being a witness over this if came back today how can he negate being a witness over the shik will he lie in the court of Allah Of course not. So the Quran not only shows he died it mentions he won't return. As

Speaker A

foram brother if you sayam is alive I can give you 10 ayat right now which prove that once you die you will never return. There are many verses in the Quran. Allah says you have two births and two deaths before you're

Speaker A

actually born. That and then obviously when you So you're dead before you then you're given life then you die then you're raised on there's no other type of life according to the 15y I can send you them after so because Quran is that once you

Speaker A

die you will never return that eye of is you have to interpret it based on this but with isam you can't do anything because Allah didn't let you his life cycle was mentioned birth death then on kyama you will be raised. So with him

Speaker A

you cannot even go to save you. Not only this mentioned that there's no nusk in I agree with you there's no nusk in he never said that Allah told me hazatam is alive in this but he said a dangerous

Speaker A

thing right now he said if Allah tells us something through about and then he changes this false belief how can he be a ni this what he's hinting to sallam denied first then he affirmed it does it mean he was wrongay

Speaker A

No, he wasn't wrong because Allah corrected him. And they can be right or wrong and Allah corrects them. There's many examples.

Speaker A

The prophet sallallahu alaihi wasallam thought he's doing hij but it was actually Medina where he had to do hijin misinterpret or the prophet sallallahu alaihi wasallam thought he would do that do the journey that year but he didn't but the dream

Speaker A

was true. The interpretation had a mistake and I also told you Abdullahbin when he was praying for the wasool our master suham but Allah corrected him and explains that the right goal is that when he said why are you praying for him

Speaker A

Allah stopped younger said that was so that here is still praying but Allah is trying to say never pray then Allah corrected soam The only thing from Allah in Brain is that Isaam he is the second he fulfills

Speaker A

the prophecy of Isaam through one way. So brother do not use Alam's example says dead don't return and with Isaam Allah left no choice for you. His life cycle is mentioned.

Speaker A

Okay. So the next question is from the right side please. Um the topic of uh today's discussion is the physical ascension of Zatisa Alisam.

Speaker A

Uh my question is very simple. It's very straightforward. Um is there any hadith from Sah Muslim from Sahib Bkari?

Speaker A

Because these are the two books that we are using today. Is there any hadith that explicitly states that Hazat Isaam was physically bodily you know raised to the heavens? It's a straightforward question. I I do not want to extend it.

Speaker A

I think it's it's quite understood. So uh just uh to cover some of the things you mentioned with regard to the prophet sallallahu alaihi wasallam not pray praying for Abdullahbin Obe is hum it's not it's a Sharia ruling.

Speaker A

Additionally, what you mentioned regarding punishment of the grave, I believe that firstly the prophet sallallahu alaihi wasallam wasn't informed of certain details when what I'm saying to you is that the wahi cannot contradict in a that's what that's something very

Speaker A

important to note with regard to your question. uh the 21 hadith only in Bkari and Muslim because we know all sahi hadith are not in Bkari and Muslim alone Bkari compiled only 7,000 hadith without repetition there there are only 3,000

Speaker A

hadith not all sah hadith in Bkari and Muslim alone there are multiple other sahi hadith when you put them all together we have the full picture of 28 sahaba with regard to your question the there are authentic hadith that prove

Speaker A

the life of Isaam in the heavens Razi said that the prophet sallallahu alaihi wasallam met Isaam in the heavens with Yaham. Does that mean now is alive with his body? The answer is no. Because Snam was born without the means of a father

Speaker A

and he's known as for this reason because he has a spirit nature. When his ascension happens, he ascends into the heavens because of his spirit nature. He has more of a spirit nature and he lives there. And this is what I said

Speaker A

from and remember everything I'm presenting is not necessarily when I said I'm saying to you that that is closeness to the angels. So Razi himself admitted is Alisam was seen in the heavens but he was saying that's the

Speaker A

soul. We saying no that's the body. Why? Because in Muslim it mentions Isaam will descend and descend descent doesn't happen of a dead person.

Speaker A

at the white minouret of Damascus. The white minouret of Damascus was not constructed in 1907 or 1908 or 1914.

Speaker A

The white minouret of Damascus was constructed hundreds of years ago to the point that says the white minouret exists here in Damascus. It's still there. I've seen it in Babum. It's a white actual white minouret. It's still there 700 years

Speaker A

after Iban Kafir. It wasn't constructed by the Jamaat in Kadan because that's not the Mishk. And you said about the names of towns. What kind of confusion will that lead to? If the mishk is kadan or the mishk is something

Speaker A

else this will lead to a great confusion. The mishk is the mishk. In the mishk there is a white minetus hadith mentions isam will descend at the white minet and that's a event yet to happen that's the hadith of bin which

Speaker A

mentions so when comes it's a real person we take that in the meaning when he arrives is will kill and then razi mentioned with regard to metaphors and he said regarding Alisam that we have to interpret it. Well, the fact is the

Speaker A

first ayat he mentioned general regarding everyone but the specific ayat of Alisam's if you go back to the beginning of this debate I said do not quote in place of you have to quote specific cases is a specific case and the word is

Speaker A

the questioner didn't say that Alam is alive now we believe did die afterwards but an event occurred with Bani Israel also a number of Ban Israel were killed by Allah their lives were taken they were revived Alisam was killed by Allah he was

Speaker A

revived so what happens in all those hadith in Bkari and Muslim there's more hadith in Muslim as I mentioned at the beginning there's only about six hadith in Bkari in in Sah Muslim there's more the Jamaat interpret all of them so

Speaker A

nawas hadith everything's metaphorical Why? Because they have to take that metaphor and apply it to and this is where we disagree because it's not metaphor. Now you are misinterpreting to it's means when you take something away from it total meaning that is if you say that

Speaker A

means as well if you say the the minet is in everything's metaphor and there is no rule and regulation with regard to metaphors. They can never give they can never give a real rule and regulation for metaphor because what's actually

Speaker A

happening Quran and Hadith is being reinterpreted by a new wahi or what they claim is a new wahi. Okay. Thank you. No from the left side please. So, so I want to ask a question about you said about him that in the had the

Speaker A

the Quran I recited the Quran I didn't believe in the masid is that right you said that no I never said that in my life okay but my question is anyway that he says in his and his um

Speaker A

he says that he made mistakes from the get-go, from the onset. And also that make many mistakes in many matters that he made mistake being a simple being from being a simple and also that he had weak. How can you say about that

Speaker A

about Sahabi? So answer that question please. Okay. So first thing is that So the Quran is giving the example of isam as a human being. Today you're trying to prove he's like an angelic person. This is improved from Quran and

Speaker A

a hadith. So I thought I was debating from the Quran. As for the hadith of Damascus it's east of Damascus. And you can takeaw in these things because died and you yourself doaw of all the signs.

Speaker A

You're on record saying we have to doawi because narration is a vision. If you read like it's I saw in a dream that is on a white min.

Speaker A

So it was a vision shown to and it will have because it's a vision. Now brother as for your question about Abu Hurah um I don't know what year you are in for your madrasa but your hanafi books are

Speaker A

full of this that he was weak in the ayat and I'm not quoting us shashi I'm quoting many of your for example abakati he explains this that abuer you he was well known for adala and hifs but in it

Speaker A

he was weak so this I have seven quotes for you Maybe they didn't show you these books in madasa but the hana are clear that abuer even as once said if I was on an island I wish I had

Speaker A

says also and for it says that this actually refers to the not only this I have the reference here it mentions and says of it's not So I didn't say Abu Hurah what you attributed to me. I said in Bkari

Speaker A

there's no there's no mention there that he went to line to disguise because Abu was there at the when it was recited.

Speaker A

So he believed in wafi after. Now as for nuzul because as rashid said keeps mentioning nuzul I will give you brothers why the cannot mean the same because he mentioned nuzul doesn't happen of a dead person. What he fails

Speaker A

to recognize is the prophet sallallah's birth is recognized as well. So have agreed even and other they have written that can also means we created for you. So the same show that he is the same show that he is from the um

Speaker A

because Quran is that died he is not coming back. I showed the prophet's own you didn't show the whole debate not even once not even once the Quran is clear died he will never return the prophet sallallahu alaihi wasallam is

Speaker A

clear on this if you reject said the same thing with full not only this of this like of the past they're not the same people the word makes it clear but remains not Not only this, look at the

Speaker A

signs of the wherever his breath goes, people will die. Clearly, there's maj's job is to teach the book and wisdom, not that his breath kills disbelievers. So, this meant with dial they would perish.

Speaker A

You have to doaw there. You cannot use that interpretation which contradicts my master suham. Not only this Quran is clear brother Nabi sallallahu alaihi wasallam said the before me were sent to nations. I am sent to all of mankind is only

Speaker A

not only this if you look at this that in bkari look is in front of me I'm describing him brown complexion mashallah wellb built you know that's complexion's complexion if tomorrow I tell you I have a friend his name is

Speaker A

Rasheed he's short but he's black skin and he has long hair you'll know this isn't hassar rasheed the prophet sallallahu alaihi wasallam saw is in the night of Mirage. He described him as reddish complexion, curly hair and abras. On the same book of Sah Al Bkari,

Speaker A

same page the prophet sallallahu alaihi wasallam said saw the latter day messiah and he said his skin color was Adam. He was brownkinned.

Speaker A

mean this means he was brownkinned and asked in that who is this man then it was said this shows the latter day messiah is someone else and Im Razi mentions you can give the name of that thing resemblance so that is also proven and I

Speaker A

gave you times up times uh can we go to the right side please is this the Fourth question.

Speaker A

That's the fourth question. Third question. Third question. Third. Third question. My question is that the holy Quran repeatedly uses the concept of for spiritual elevation, rank, honor uh and also nearness of Allah Almighty.

Speaker A

It is also used by some to mean spiritual elevation like for instance um um inulhikim or in the tapas.

Speaker A

Now what evidence from the holy Quran do you have that regarding Isaam exclusively means bodily ascension and not a spiritual one has the term not been used for any other prophet thank you very much for your question just very quickly on the Abuer of the

Speaker A

parti mentioned he was regarding ziad when he clashed with other sahab they criticized him but they didn't call him basa basata is to say someone's a simpleton. Secondly, you said I didn't present any proof from the prophet sallallahu alaihi wasallam. That's

Speaker A

incorrect. In the beginning, I mentioned the Bkari hadith of Abuer from the prophet sallallahu alaihi wasallam. So that is from the prophet sallallahu alaihi wasallam. Abuer didn't give that.

Speaker A

He did not give that. He didn't give it with opinion. Thirdly, you mentioned the hadith of bin and interpretation and that we in that hadith and you say it's a vision. The thing is the thing is that if that you mention

Speaker A

to say the firstly the dreams of so even if he accept that it doesn't entail as you go because that what you do is actual because in that case like for instance you mentioned the description of Isaam being brown in one hadith red in the

Speaker A

other hadith it's actually both because a person Yes, because you didn't quote the full hadith. It mentions he he was as if he came out of the bath, meaning the redness of complexion. You can have someone brown with redness, a tinge of

Speaker A

red. So there's many things with regard to the maj with regard to your question and yes is used for various people like we raised your remembrance. Remembrance is something abstract. It's not a physical object. All the ayat that re

Speaker A

relate to like I mentioned Allah raises those who have believed amongst you then those who were given knowledge by rankings but when Allah subhana wa ta'ala says to someone I raised you in the context that it comes with bal and this is why the

Speaker A

grammar is important because the ayatan This bell makes all the difference that Allah raised him to himself. Meaning the raise was a physical raising because the bal is negating a physical killing. The physical killing was negated. This is

Speaker A

what the bal does. This is why he hasn't answered with regard to the balia which I mentioned. Now the the the jamaat people they may not understand.

Speaker A

Some of them may not understand such techn technicalities but that is the reality. So what they resort to the Jamaat uh preachers like Razi is giving when it suits them everything becomes interpreted when it suits them. When it

Speaker A

doesn't when it contradicts they take the literal meaning. You mentioned for instance I take that literally what does that mean that Isaam will be ruler and he will have the cross destroyed because Christianity will be finished. Isa Alisam will have the swine killed

Speaker A

because it will not be consumed by the people. The it's quite literal. But with your uh the Messiah that you believe in, none of that has happened. The the people are still eating swines. The swine market is quite big. The the

Speaker A

crosses are everywhere. In fact, in this place we're having the debate, there's a massive cross outside. You couldn't even get rid of that cross. There's a massive cross outside. So, how is the cross finished? Christianity is thriving. The

Speaker A

pope is thriving. The Eastern Orthodox have taken Russia back. They are thriving. Your Messiah has appeared.

Speaker A

Christianity is thriving more than ever. Putin is a living proof of that. So the even if we go with the interpretation, it doesn't apply to Midas Sahib as well cuz Christianity is still thriving.

Speaker A

People are still eating pork. the wherever the disbelief hasn't finished wherever Masad's breath reached uh in Kadan or wherever the disbelief in him didn't finish there were people who rejected him from his own family so maj is something that is so integral to

Speaker A

the entire debate that when do you go to interpretation there are rules and regulations with regard to that that are mentioned in books like why I mentioned this booktasi These books are unfortunately not taught by the Jamaat anymore. Ninhim studied them

Speaker A

but the Jamaat doesn't study them any longer. And this is why the they are confused on the issue of Alakaz and in the case of people like Razi. They totally distort the texts to in keep the people in the Jamaat that these texts

Speaker A

are applying to Mira and they do not apply to Isa Miam. Why would Allah subhanana wa ta'ala confuse?

Speaker A

Why would sallu alaihi wasallam confuse everyone by referring to Miz as Isa bin Miam ascribe him to Alisam as a spiritual son or whatever that would not happen because something explicit could have been mentioned. Do you really think

Speaker A

when you said Alm Bkari was on your Alam Bkari was waiting for Isa Mariam to come from Punjab in Kadan Kadan in Punjab was he did he do you think Alan Bkari really believed Isaam died in Kashmir and was

Speaker A

buried in Kashmir and you said people of Kashmir didn't do shik they had shik before now they do last question from the left side please so this is the last question of the whole session then it's going to be one

Speaker A

more Okay, I answered first. Last two questions. So, we asked first. Yes. Yes. Uh it's regarding the the hadith in Muslim regarding uh the prophet sallallahu alaihi wasallam is saying that is will descend on the white manet near

Speaker A

Damascus. I can read the entire hadith if you want but nowhere does it sayu or anything. This is we're sticking to Muslim if you want to bring it up. It is hadith number I have it don't you have it? Yeah.

Speaker A

Nowhere do they say a dream. But the prophet sallallahu alaihi wasallam you know he's very precise in his speech 100% and and you've said that when it comes for correct me if I'm wrong you mentioned it means and

Speaker A

previously I'm sure you mentioned it means as well. So how would you translate this hadith?

Speaker A

Islam is born in the uh white minret. Is that your translation or is he created there? And what is the belief of the Jamaat regarding this white minret?

Speaker A

Because we know in his he said I can give this to you if you want to. I have it. He says I have been saying this many time and I believe this that there can be more than a thousand.

Speaker A

It is possible that a mass can enter in the mi can descend one of the thousand mass can descend in Damascus. So does he believe in this hadith literally and if he did later in his life we know that he

Speaker A

ordered for the white min to be constructed and there was not enough funding for the white min to be constructed and about 32 years after he passed away the Jamaat had to release this advertisement that we've got it

Speaker A

dated here as well there's another advertisement that whoever pays 100 rupees will put their name on the white minat but this was after Mab has already passed away so how would you translate the hadith and how would you answer this

Speaker A

dichotomy In midas's belief, initially he believes a messiah can descend in Damascus. Later he's saying build the build the min of Damascus in brother firstly in the past he used to say you do doaw I have your videos I can

Speaker A

show you them. The prophet sallallahu alaihi wasallam beautifully said through me disbelief will disappear.

Speaker A

Till today the crosses you saw here. The prophet sallallahu alaihi wasallam was actually sent and he did erase this belief. In the same way he says it was open to mess showing to prove is false. Allah says in the

Speaker A

Quran is mentioned have all the deans ended Christians Jews according to Quran will always remain so cannot mean there will be no crosses left and the image you've given of Islam today that when Islam dominates you will break crosses I am

Speaker A

free of this this was not the teaching don't don't cut me off restart my time it's fine don't cut me off This is against the freedom of religion. Okay. Quran says they will always remain. I gave you two

Speaker A

ayat. You didn't open your mouth on those ayat. You could have tried answering. You didn't. As for the other point you mentioned that you know that I mentioned that. So yeah brother you asked about I never said in Muslim the words are

Speaker A

there. If you were listening Shamin mentions the same from Nawasi saw a dream. This is the I can give it to you afterwards. As knows of this raw as for the two different complexions of you said that you know someone can be

Speaker A

brown and red my dear brother in the brown the prophet sallallahu alaihi wasallam said he didn't recognize him. It wasn't the same always when he saw him in Mirage reddish skin every for the one to come in Bkari Muslim is brownish skin in

Speaker A

Mirage he was with Yaham you said he's so he's alive in disguise my brother this maybe Christianity it's not Islam Allah gives his example with Adam you're giving his example with a non-human being this isn't Islam my brother not

Speaker A

only this you mentioned that did Imam Bkari mention Punjab my dear brother prophecies are for the future IM Bukari didn't claim he accepted and affirmed just like we do. When the prophecy is fulfilled then you know what happened

Speaker A

like the Jews till today they're waiting for isam they still haven't recognized him and you are following their footsteps by continuously waiting for although Quran and Bkari Muslim say is that now ask for your question brother regarding the Damascus question I'm

Speaker A

sorry I came to it late but there's so much being said first point is brother I showed you the mention right number one number two I didn't say that anal the word I said When Allah does the prophet sallallahu alaihi wasallam

Speaker A

had as well. Was it him bodily coming from the skies? No. He was born on earth. It means he has the help of Allah. This is what from Allah means we accept hazm had nuzul because nuzul a guest a traveler in Arabic is called

Speaker A

nazil. So the promised mess fulfilled this east of Damascus. He didn't finish the hadith.

Speaker A

He brought the map open it. is direct east of Damascus. So that hadith was fulfilled this way. As for I I'll explain just let me finish. As for the 10,000 messiah when the prophet wasallam claimed to be the promis in the

Speaker A

start he did and said I am no one many like me and me can come but then he clarified that these prophecies of mass it's only me no one else. Not only this my brother regarding these signs of mi

Speaker A

theaw is doing contradict the Quran for example the nabi will come his breath wherever it reaches it will kill disbelievers's job isn't to his breath is killing disbelievers he has to give and do with not with the sword not imam because

Speaker A

Allah says Allah said to that if we will everyone would believe. Will you force people to convert? So you actually believe when isam comes except Islam or this I am free of this.

Speaker A

This contradicts and other ayat your akid of contradicts the entire Quran. Every sign that you take literally just yesterday my brother in your videos you were saying is in literal so in front of the other you're taking maj today you change your

Speaker A

alhamdulillah thank you so now the last question I have to be honest I we don't have much time because of um the board booking of this hall as well so this is the last question unfortunately we can't take

Speaker A

questions from the audience online because of the time that we have and we have to clear the hole and many other things so can we ask the last question from the audience from the right side and then inshallah we'll we'll end the

Speaker A

debate. My question is to you can't hear. Can you not hear it? Can you hear it now?

Speaker A

My question is that is a matter upon which there is a consensus or is this aim a scholarly disagreement and if you feel that it is an then we would like to know that when and how was this established

Speaker A

thank you for your question just very quickly on some of the points you mentioned I do not say that we will break the cross or there's no tolerance in the in the dean of Allah I'm saying in the end of times Jesus will be

Speaker A

fighting the Jal and his forces and in that context he will kill the people who will be against him but you mentioned earlier 70,000 Jews how will prior to the death of Isaam so those 70,000 Jews will disbelieve in him

Speaker A

doesn't contradict the ayah because it will be prior to him passing away like Alim Bkari mentions that Isaam will be buried where in al- Medra also narrates that narration. Other hadith scholars took that position that Sn is Alisam will be buried next to the

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prophet sallallahu alaihi wasallam. This is why for,400 years the Muslim rulers of that place left a fourth grave. It's still there. The the usher sultans who ruled that region they left a fourth grave for snamam to be buried there. And

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you have to think that if it meant he will be born at a white minouret. When Miraab was born, there was no white minoret. So we'll do that of that. We'll carry on with that wheel until it fits perfectly. Meaning there's

Speaker A

no proper rule and regulation to this. With regard to your question I mentioned at the beginning of our dawa that there's the rough ascension of Isaam.

Speaker A

There's the descent of Isaatam. There was only a minor dispute that did is Alisam die momentarily. A small group of people held that belief but all of them believed that Snam was raised to the heavens and he will

Speaker A

come back in the end of time. There is and all of this and rejecting this as a total is kufur. This is one of the main contentions with the Jamaat and Mas had to prove this to validate himself being

Speaker A

the messiah. This is why Razi is saying the hadith that says he was brown. Isa Islam was brown. He's trying to say that Masab was brown also and therefore that suits his description. We would disagree with that totally. That is sad is Alisam

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being described and this is what many and this is my call out to the people of the Jamaat. All the people of the Jamaat who are listening is that there are many sects that claim this. The Bahai sect

Speaker A

will claim something similar. The Barbie sect will claim something similar. There are many Mai claimments. Juan was a Mai claimment. There's not only MA. There are hundreds and hundreds of Mai claimments. And there are even some Jesus claimments. You have them today

Speaker A

around the world. We are saying that none of these are true. All of them are false. They all misinterpret Quran. They all misinterpret Sunnah. And we would want to call the people of the Jamaat back to the broader Islam all to amongst

Speaker A

Islam and this includes everyone. Everyone who we deem as Muslim you come back to those things which are essential beliefs for all Muslims. This is how we interpret the hadith of the sect. 72 sects will go hell. One won't. What do

Speaker A

we say? That's the Muslim Ummah who accept the necessities. We don't divide the Muslim um up. Yes, we have sectarian differences. We address one sect and another. If individuals do kufur, we do tap of the individuals. But we don't do

Speaker A

general takir of masses of groups of Muslims. Like we I don't declare the Wahhabis Kufar. I don't declare the Shia Kufar. I don't declare the Obandi Kufar.

Speaker A

I will declare specific people in them Kufar, specific cases as Kufar. But as a group, we say they're a part of the um as long as they accept the necessities of the dean. My call to the Jamaat here

Speaker A

in the UK to Masahib to all his followers is you come back to Islam you come back to the mainstream come back to what im Abujah wrote in his come back to that adopt one of the four schools and then you will be our

Speaker A

brothers we will eat your we will intermingle and everything else will apply but until that is not done you cannot reject the mainstream you uh the main beliefs those things which are known in necessity in Islam and no one

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from the Jamaat should be killed wrongly. I would say that openly. I'm against persecution. Uh the no one the children the women the men who are innocent if in those cases persecution of killing people in the jamaat we do

Speaker A

not want your blood. That's a false dichotomy. Razi came down to see me. No one went after his blood. Rahil was there. Ibrahim Sab was there. No one is after your blood. We want to bring you back to the mainstream body of Muslims.

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We ask Allah subhanana wa ta'ala enable us to do this. And that is the outcome of this debate.

Speaker A

And the debate finishes here. Yes. I will come to Ibrahim in a bit. away from all of the debate, I want to give both of you two minutes each just very very quickly to to have your final comments about nothing to do with this

Speaker A

but generally with regards to whether these debates should continue and other such aspects that you think that can help us go forward. Yeah.

Speaker A

So firstly I want to thank brother Assar and all you brothers who came here today. You took out time to attend this debate today and end of the day arguments will always be presented. We should all pray to Allah that he unites

Speaker A

us upon the huck, the path of Bkari, the path of firstly the Quran, the Sahabah, the prophet sallallahu alaihi wasallam first, then his sahaba and Allah unites us upon that truth. And of course today there were a few ups and downs and if

Speaker A

there's anything from my end where Rashid said was offended, I wholeheartedly apologize for that. May Allah forgive me for any shortcomings from my end. Apart from that, inshallah, I think it's a great step for future discussions with Shehikh Hassar Rashid

Speaker A

and his students here that we continue this dialogue so the truth can be spread and inshallah knowledge can be spread and um we pray and I call also the BVI brothers to the true Islam as well and that they pray to Allah. Today I just

Speaker A

have one request for all the bis watching or anyone who is not an Ahmedi Muslim. Just take your Quran and read the end of surah al maida with the tap of my master hazat Muhammad sallallahu alaihi wasallam. Just do that much from

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this discussion and I think inshallah many of you will be guided back to al-Islam the Islam the true teachings of hazat Muhammad sallallahu alaihi wasallam our master and his sahaba may Allah be pleased with them all and obviously rabb as a

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moderator he did great as well as a neutral moderator and we thank him and for every Ahmedi Muslim and non Ahmedi Muslim watching We pray for you that this debate brings about good for you and helps you and enables you to

Speaker A

recognize the immediat lover of my master hazat Muhammad sallallahu alaihi wasallam. I know people are nodding but read his books you will agree with him. That's fine.

Speaker A

Okay, that's a lot of things to take. You come here. I want to make very clear clear that we belong to which is and are one segment of that those who you refer to as BL who like who will

Speaker A

refer to themselves as BV they are a part of. So when we call people back to the way of it's inclusive of the followers of the four Mabs from Morocco the country of origin of Ibraim all the way to

Speaker A

Indonesia and Malaysia these are mainly with the exception of Iran that generally speaking we deem the Shia also Muslims unless they reject something with the like or something of that nature. So we would want to invite your Jamaat back to the mainstream back to uh

Speaker A

accepting the mainstream beliefs and we we do not believe that Mizas's uh teachings unified people. It actually separated people more. We would want you to come back to the mainstream teachings and back back to the correct teachings which is the teachings of

Speaker A

with regard to andul what you mentioned remember that was also the belief of the majority of the scholars like even in his and Maki you said after him I'm sure you believe he didn't do but he does imuti did his books on it all these

Speaker A

asharis they all did and of course we we believe in with the prophet sallallahu alaihi wasallam I imani wrote a beautiful book which shows that he was the real and I immedul and if you read their books you will

Speaker A

find out what in of the prophet sallallahu alaihi wasallam was and that is what we invite you to Inshallah we will close up now.

Speaker A

Did you enjoy the debate? I was expecting you would say we should continue these. You just anyhow I think last lastly we end with the final remarks from Ibrahim bless here please.

Speaker A

Take this seat I put it on. Oh this is better. You sure? Yeah. Okay.

Speaker A

What do you think? Is it working? This is better. Is it Is it working? Yeah. Okay. Yeah.

Speaker A

Before we conclude, let me read something out. Before we conclude this evening's proceedings, I am extremely grateful. I I would like to express my sincere gratitude to Sheh Ass Rashid Sahib for participating in today's debate. We insist we sincerely appreciate the time,

Speaker A

effort, and preparation you devoted to this important dialogue today. Despite our differences, our brothers are sitting here as well. We respect your commitment, of course, to defending what you believe to be the truth. It's only through respectful dialogue,

Speaker A

sincere discussion and the exchange of evidence that understanding can flourish. I also I would also like to express my heartfelt gratitude to respected Razi for his tremendous effort as well. He in invested in preparing for this debate and for

Speaker A

presenting the position of the Ahmedya Muslim Jama with dignity both of you with sincerity again both of you and with full respect. May Allah the Almighty reward both of you abundantly for your effort and accept your sincere desire to serve Islam.

Speaker A

My sincere thanks as well to our respected moderator Rahil Sahib for conducting this debate with fairness and impartiality.

Speaker A

I also want to thank our distinguished guests, Jazaka for being here, our technical team, the catering team and all those who work tiredlessly tirelessly behind the scenes and everyone who joined joined us here today as well as the many viewers who have

Speaker A

been watching online across the world. Dear viewers, you undoubtedly believe in Allah the Almighty, whether Musa Jamaat or the rest, Allah the Almighty, the praiseworthy, and you believe in his beloved messenger.

Speaker A

Today you have heard both sides. Both sides, Razi and Shehar Sah, both of you presented your evidence. We pray that everyone, whether sitting here or online, approaches this matter with honesty, humility, and a genuine genuine desire to recognize the truth wherever

Speaker A

it may lead. Most importantly, of course, to pray. We firmly believe that all the proofs and this now I tell about our jama through which Allah established the the truthfulness of the best of his creation the greatest of his messengerat

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Muhammad al- Mustafa the have likewise been fulfilled in the person who we believe to be the immedi and the promised messiah Ahmed we Therefore, humbly invite every sincere seeker to study his books, the science and the life of Hadat Ahmed.

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Salam with an open heart and above all to turn to Allah the Almighty in sincere prayer for guidance. Finally, there means nothing for us except to pray to Allah the Almighty. I want again to say to Sheikh Assahib,

Speaker A

I am very happy the way how you conducted yourself with dignity and I think met.

Topics:Islamic debateHazrat IsaJesus in IslamSunni IslamAhmadiyya Muslim JamaatQuranHadithSahih al-BukhariSahih MuslimIslamic theology

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