Unilever’s Jostein Solheim: Leading the Way in Diversit… — Transcript

[Music] From We First and Goal 17 Media, welcome to Lead with We. I'm Simon Manering, and today I'm joined by Justine Solheim, Group CEO of Health and Wellbeing at Unilever, where she also led the re-radicalization of the activist ice cream brand Ben & Jerry's.

today we'll talk about how to walk your talk as an activist brand in ways that drive business growth and how to navigate today's challenging cultural landscape in terms of when to stand up and speak up as a brand

Today, we'll talk about how to walk your talk as an activist brand in ways that drive business growth and how to navigate today's challenging cultural landscape in terms of when to stand up and speak up as a brand.

met at a conscious capitalism ceo summit years ago and we've chatted since but how are you feeling about this new year here we are in 2022 we've had this crazy couple of years with covert like how are you feeling you know you've got this new

And how a global enterprise and an activist brand can work together and add value to everyone. So, Justine, welcome to Lead with We.

year ready to go and then we get a new variant and we just gotta hold back a few more months before we can get out there but i i sort of feel that we're starting to work out this the cycle here and that

Thank you, Simon. I'm happy to be here. It's so good to see you. I think we first met at a Conscious Capitalism CEO Summit years ago, and we've chatted since. But how are you feeling about this new year? Here we are in 2022. We've had this crazy couple of years with COVID. How are you feeling? You know, you've got this new role. You're feeling optimistic?

ben and jerry's and now at unilever and i want to start at the beginning because there are those people out there who obviously have heard of ben and jerry's but to them on the face of it it's an

You know, I am. I am a prisoner of my own optimism. But even us die-hard optimists, I gotta say, get a little bit of a hit as you're coming into the year ready to go, and then we get a new variant, and we just gotta hold back a few more months before we can get out there. But I sort of feel that we're starting to work out this cycle here, and that I'm still hopeful that we will be out of this next wave soon.

it was a little bit driven by competition so as as the you know unity rehearsal is the world's biggest ice cream player back then nestle was the other big player nestler signed an agreement with uh haagen-dazs which basically left ben and jerry's uh

Right, it feels like we're slowly having to carry less and less weight as it all becomes a little bit more normalized. And, you know, you've had this storied career at Ben & Jerry's and now at Unilever, and I want to start at the beginning because there are those people out there who obviously have heard of Ben & Jerry's, but to them, on the face of it, it's an unlikely coupling: this global enterprise with so many brands and their sort of iconic activists, Ben & Jerry's. Why did Unilever reach out to Ben & Jerry's in the first place? Can you tell us that?

and and you know after a very long process i came to an agreement yeah i love a very long process i mean you've got personalities you've got company culture you've got the legal component and you're sort of trying to

Well, you know, like all good things, it was a little bit driven by competition. So, as the, you know, Unilever was the world's biggest ice cream player back then, Nestlé was the other big player. Nestlé signed an agreement with Häagen-Dazs, which basically left Ben & Jerry's, you know, as a potential partner in the sort of super-premium ice cream market. So, Unilever approached Ben & Jerry's during a quite a tumultuous period of Ben & Jerry's where they were having some internal disagreements.

of how does it sort of integrate to a systems driven enterprise well interestingly it didn't really integrate that was part of the deal so the deal was really very structured and actually very legal and very formal so what it did was a very fat

Right, and, you know, after a very long process, I came to an agreement.

structurally addressed in the accuracy acquisition agreement and there was a formal process uh you know to follow oh that's interesting so you know a lot of young companies and founders want to protect that secret source when they they face

Yeah, I love a very long process. I mean, you've got personalities, you've got company culture, you've got the legal component, and you're sort of trying to like dock in space these two entities. How would you characterize that process in hindsight? What's it like when a fiercely independent company that had a lot of autonomy in its own right and really kind of steered its own ship, kind of how does it sort of integrate to a systems-driven enterprise?

where this was going to end but you know if you look at it in hindsight having this powerful independent board of directors that is sort of primary responsibility for the social mission and the purpose of the company and then you have unilever that's the

Well, interestingly, it didn't really integrate. That was part of the deal. So, the deal was really very structured and actually very legal and very formal. So, what it did was a very fat contract, but what it really set out was that sort of forerunner to B Corp. So, it set out a governance model which ensured that the independence, the social mission, the core values, the foundation, all these elements were actually very structurally addressed in the acquisition agreement. And there was a formal process, you know, to follow.

successful acquisitions of for a multinational so probably more pain than they thought up front but then more gain as we went along totally get it and how did they find a ceo what you were in 2010 you took over a ceo how do they

Oh, that's interesting. So, you know, a lot of young companies and founders want to protect that secret source when they face an acquisition opportunity and so on. And so that, and Unilever was open to that. And was that the very reason they reached out to Ben & Jerry's? So, they were open to that option?

turnarounds and i'd actually come to the united states for a turnaround in 2007 to to turn around our ice cream business and integrate it and move it around and do all sorts of reshaping of the business and i can still remember the the head of

I don't think that they thought that's where this was going to end. But, you know, if you look at it in hindsight, having this powerful independent board of directors that is sort of primary responsibility for the social mission and the purpose of the company, and then you have Unilever that's the owner and has the legal responsibility and the primary responsibility for the commercial aspects of the business. Actually, if you look at M&A and ROIs and returns, Ben & Jerry's is right up there as one of the most financially successful acquisitions for a multinational. So, probably more pain than they thought up front, but then more gain as we went along.

fathom how high college fees are in america i do now now that know that but no they came to me and said we finally found the right job for you after all these years now you can be a rebel but you can be a

Totally get it. And how did they find a CEO? You were in 2010, you took over as CEO. How do they find someone like you? I mean, that is a unique CEO that they want, right?

ambition was to re-radicalize ben and jerry's which sounds a bit kind of intuitive to us because we already thought that they were pretty radical in the spectrum of brands so you know how did you feel going in and

It was. I had been in Unilever. I was in Unilever when I took this role, and I would say I was one of those that focused a lot on turnarounds. And I'd actually come to the United States for a turnaround in 2007 to turn around our ice cream business and integrate it and move it around and do all sorts of reshaping of the business. And I can still remember the head of that North American business came to me as I was sort of wrapping up that assignment, and I was sort of happily thinking I'd go back to Europe and, you know, get my kids into high school in Europe. Didn't even then really fully fathom how high college fees are in America. I do now, now that I know that. But no, they came to me and said, "We finally found the right job for you after all these years. Now you can be a rebel."

are you gonna fit in you know do i exchange my car what am i gonna do what do i say what shirt do you wear on the first day it says everything you know exactly all of this now

But you can be a rebel with a cause. There you go. So, they were just, yeah, they had the personality, they had the opportunity, and brought it together. How did you feel going in? Because, you know, it's interesting, you've said that you're actually your ambition was to re-radicalize Ben & Jerry's, which sounds a bit kind of intuitive to us because we already thought that they were pretty radical in the spectrum of brands. So, you know, how did you feel going in, and why did you feel the need to re-radicalize the brand?

but but what really struck me after the first week was this was not an intellectual hot house this was not one of precious ideas and ideology this was a doing company a company that is centered around doing of

I gotta say, as you go into something as iconic as Ben & Jerry's, you do come in with a certain amount of humility and a little bit like concern. Are you going to fit in? You know, do I exchange my car? What am I gonna do? What do I say? What shirt do you wear on the first day? It says everything.

because i think the market rewards that employers expect it how did that happen at ben and jerry's was it a function of ben and jerry themselves and they were just so sort of walking their talk boots on the ground themselves how did they or

You know, exactly all of this. Now, to be fair, I sort of went in with who I am and what I am. I tend to wear my heart on my sleeve and be pretty transparent, so you sort of get what you see.

everything in our power to make things right to achieve justice and and and then jerry is the one that makes us all want to work there and and be there so between the two of them they they created this thing but

But what really struck me after the first week was this was not an intellectual hot house. This was not one of precious ideas and ideology. This was a doing company, a company that is centered around doing, of executing, of really making a difference. But it wasn't, it wasn't like an intellectual process. It was a practical process, and I found that extremely liberating.

business why don't you make a business that that invests in the community in which it buys its ingredients why don't you use your business to to to speak up you want to use your voice why do you have to take this model as

That's really interesting because I think a lot of companies would fancy themselves as companies that do because I think the market rewards that, employers expect it. How did that happen at Ben & Jerry's? Was it a function of Ben and Jerry themselves, and they were just so sort of walking their talk, boots on the ground themselves? How did they, or was it organic?

set of thinking and then a relentless commitment to justice and you know what you're saying there is really important for those who don't know you know ben and jerry's characterize itself as a social justice company that happens to make ice cream not the other

I mean, we have to give a lot of credit to Ben. So, if you could say Ben is the permanently dissatisfied with the status quo and having to really ensure that we're doing absolutely everything in our power to make things right, to achieve justice. And then Jerry is the one that makes us all want to work there and be there. So, between the two of them, they created this thing. But, you know, Ben really, you know, he wasn't going to do this. He was actually going to get out of the business. And somebody said, "Well, if you don't like business, if you don't like business people, why don't you make a different business? Why don't you make a business that invests in the community in which it buys its ingredients? Why don't you use your business to speak up? You want to use your voice? Why do you have to take this model as given?"

to make i mean do you look at it through the lens of your social mission first and make the decision on that basis or is it case by case what's it like no so so back in 1988 uh they had a very

high energy board meeting and they were going to try to define the mission of ben and jerry's a three-part mission and um as all good meetings everybody gave a lot of input they all left the room and one person sat down and wrote

it out and that is still the three-part mission statement of ben and jerry's two-day wow and that is a three-part mission plus you know a couple of cheats so you basically got the environmental mission which is the product mission so make the

absolutely best possible product in the most natural way with the least environmental impact that's the product mission only successful companies have an impact only successful companies remain companies so there's an economic mission to return a a fair shareholder

return and to be economically viable and then there is a social mission which is anchored in and around social justice right and then if you take those three pillars the product the social and the economic that was linked together in this model

called linked prosperity and link prosperity really goes right back to the farm and says how can we think about buying our biggest ingredient cream in a way that supports the dairy farmers and think of it as an investment in the

dairy community an investment in the cocoa farmers an investment in the banana co-op versus an extraction of economic value so that was sort of the model of link prosperity and by having that printed up and put in every single root in the

company it means that every single decision in that company could be challenged by any single individual whether we were adhering so every everyone was empowered to do that they had a right to speak up totally and and you know

let me push in on that a little bit because you know so many companies are piled onto the purpose space and there's esg washing and there's so many funds now and so on and you know with the best

of intentions a lot of companies are playing at it or managing the optics of their brands as opposed to doing it for real so in your direct experience of ceo ben jerry's for eight years what is the connective tissue between really leaning

in and leading with the purpose of your company and the profit and the sale of products how does that work i mean you actually lay it out quite nicely in your model as well but the trick is not it's the top down the

bottom up and the fact is that when you are on a bigger mission than just making money and when you're on a mission to truly impact the world when you're taking on the the courses and the issues that really matter to

your people the organizational execution power doubles at least you know our factories were the most efficient factories in the ice cream world lowest waste levels the most committed workforce and that that permeates throughout the company because we cannot afford to

waste any ingredients because we're trying to push that money into the communities that we are here to serve so it really drives a level of engagement and execution in all elements of the business from straight operations finance normal marketing so it doesn't it

permeates your whole ecosystem and your partner system and your customers so in in that sense you know i saw an incredible lift in uh in just performance you know performance purpose in the company impact per person in a couple

and then when you've got this temptation that every company if they're lucky enough has which is hey we've got an opportunity to go into a new market or we can scale here or the big boys in the industry are trying to kind of muscle us

out and you could compromise the integrity of your your social mission to capture that opportunity or play defense what do you tell yourself at a board level at a company level you were never compromised you will never compromise on any one of those

elements you might emphasize a bit more or go lead or sequence differently but you could never do something that compromises so we would never put out a product that maybe supported a course with these perfect ingredients from these farms but

the product didn't taste good like every time you spend four dollars on a pint of ben jerry's it's gotta blow your socks off there's just no compromise same thing on social mission will we be actively be able to promote on every

course or speak up on everything no but would we do something that undermines it absolutely not so so there is a you know there's a keep walking don't don't strive for perfection but don't undermine your values and i'm sure you attract a certain type

of employee people who come to the company because you're so clear-eyed about the role you want to play in the world but that almost creates a rod for your own back because there's got to be a lot of internal demand from your

employee base right and how do you manage that yeah no you listen i mean you got to do a lot of listening you got to run fast if you want to stay ahead you know and it takes all forms and

shapes you know we were hit with a very bad storm some years back and just where i lived it didn't it didn't do a lot of damage but by our factory in waterbury it washed out half the village so when i

showed up for work on monday i'm going where is everyone and they're they're in waterbury they've got equipment together they're all down there working with the community to help people restore their homes after the damage and i was like whoa so i had to

quickly change clothes cancel meetings jump in the car and get there because you got to be on site to lead but it's you know it's it's the bottom-up movement so it is a back and forth i would also

say not everybody in the company has to agree to everything what we gotta agree to is once we once we go we go and we go all in and it's not always easy to go i know that you were very sensitive to the fact

that when the black lives matter movement became such a you know top of mind all around the world that you know you said in the press that you're all concerned that how could a majority white lead company have an authentic voice in this place so

in the space how do you well obviously you you want to lean into that issue but how do you navigate that that issue it took three years it took three years it took one year of unconscious bias training it took a year in that year

with lots of different learning journeys etc the second year we came out of the shell and we we went to the events we marched we talked we went to meet with the different community centers and organizers we still messed up you know

40 of the time but they were benevolent and and nice to us and then in year three i mean one of our big breakthroughs was we actually went to to meet with uh former representative john lewis and we literally walked in and

said you know congressman what can we what can we do we're a 96 percent white company and he said what is it that you're here to say well we want to address systemic and structural racism in america and he looked at us and he gave us four

hours he blew out his whole afternoon and i don't think i've ever been that inspired and energized about an issue but that was in 2012.

so you know it's it it takes time to authentically enter and understand it takes time as a white person with a white identity as a male a lot of a lot of identity challenges here to overcome if you want to be a

humble part of that movement the other area which is so important beyond engaging consumers around movements beyond fostering a culture where people feel they have a voice to bring issues and stay true to your mission is upstream your own supply chain having

your own house in order you know i know that you did a lot of work in and around your suppliers and making sure that you know they were treated well there was no fear of retaliation why was that

important and what did you do in a way you know the the front end of ben and jerry's is fun it's pop culture it's everything is a smile everything is about the opportunity and possibility to change the world the back end of ben and jerry

is extremely granular very metric oriented so in a way we were really targeting that each pint should contain the maximum number of ingredient investments in those communities and you know can we get that to 80 90 that there was a program behind that

ingredient so that that is really that thing now i mean i can give you another example you know between ben and jerry's and my my my current gig is setting up health and and well-being i i led the division of food and

beverages in north america and you know you take a brand like helmans which is you know 100 year old brand people sort of think they know it and and we we sort of said well what are we doing with with helmets what are we

all about what is our role in society and as i took the job i was conscious that i wanted to make sure i went to meet those farmers there are about six hundred thousand acres of soybean farmers in iowa that's gross to soybean oil that

goes into helmets i said i really want to go there before i go to any customer so we we flew out and we met with the farmers that grow our crop and based on those discussions we updated our program in and around cover crop

what we saw was the biggest environmental impact we could have in in the production of soybean was the introduction of cover crops we reduce runoff we increase organic matter in the soil so we reduce the chemical load on the farm

but believe it or not there are 20 30 different soil types on one farm the incline of the field everything matters so we based on those discussion we tweaked our program to say we're going to pay you you know x dollars for the

first year a little bit less the second year a little bit less the third year but we're going to share the full cost and more up front for you to convert to cover cropping started that we partnered with others

we're really aiming to get a million acres cover crop that would have such a gigantic impact if you just even look at the gulf of mexico in the runoff but just the way that the health of that soil and the chemical load then we went

to our own factory and we looked at the waste profile here one of the things that would strike you when you're standing uh in a helmand's factory is hey americans eat a lot of mayonnaise because it's good but it's also a lot of

plastic when you're watching that you're seeing all this it's plastic so we said all right we're going to convert all our plastic to post pcr post consumer use pastic so we'd trigger a real demand for recycled plastic material we move up fully away from

virgin plastic we reduce our carbon footprint by 60 and then we looked also at the waste and the energy used in our own factory and we looked at optimizing that when we looked at that then we turned to

the consumer and we said what are we playing in their home what is the biggest problem that we can help address and it wasn't an easy one this actually is food waste you know 40 42 of uh of food waste happens in the home

you know food waste globally is like the third biggest country when it comes to carbon emission but how do you find a fun and cheeky way to help people save money eat better and and you know reduce that the stuff

that they throw away which by the way saves the money and and that's what then became the sort of the public facing having done the farm having done the plastic having done the reduction we then turned to that and we actually

launched that with a super bowl ad and you know and went all in and and what you'll see is that the net result of this business is just outstanding i mean just the fact that you go all in

and then you go to the consumer to capture the roi of those investments that you've made in those changes i mean there's a through line there through the whole value chain of the business that people fail to kind of pull it all the

way through so that the work they've done upstream they can recoup those costs downstream and then they wonder why these isolated efforts don't work i want to ask you at some point after eight years someone at unilever walked

up to you and had a similar conversation to the first one they had when they said take over ben and jerry's and they wanted you to start this new division what did they say and what was it all

about and why why was it necessary unilever is enormous it's leading as you say why there's two steps here one step was you know when you when you do something like this for eight years uh it it really becomes you

and your purpose your mission is intertwined uh with the company and and you live and breathe it you are it so i actually started about six years in to realize wait a second you know you can't do this forever

this this organism have to keep reinventing itself it needs different impulses and different ways of being so i actually sort of devised a two-year process for how to leave benedict i call it two plus two two years to get out and

two years in therapy to get over it so so that so i was very conscious that i wanted ben and jerry's to to flourish to grow to expand beyond my leadership uh and evolve as an ecosystem so that was

one one component which was which was hard and we did a lot of work and and you know and i sort of i could i could move on um i i actually then went back and did this division because i wanted to take

that model and say can you really deploy this on all brands store where where people sort of said this can't really be done and and and really that's what we what we did and uh and but you know that was back in

the matrix it was back in this order so i really i really love building high impact and and that i sort of feel also after having sold so much mental health uh through ice cream i should i should

really sell mental and physical health so my passion was really around how do we build a high impact human-centered health worker business and and you know we we built that up rather quickly and we acquired all the we acquired a few other businesses

rather quickly and we now you know have you know a sizeable uh portfolio so i then joined in last summer basically to set this up and create this as a it's a collective of powerful companies that are there to

serve their consumers and their communities and when you're you're building that portfolio and building something special do you reverse engineer out of consumer needs and changing expectations and so on or do you start with the purposeful brands that are leading their category

and then build your stable of brands that way or is it both you know which end you lead with it it's so you know the beauty of being a purpose-led company is you kind of attract like-minded people so so all the companies that have joined

our collective and that we've acquired had at their core a mission and a purpose uh that was meaningful now were they living it in all aspects of the business no nobody is everybody's on a journey but you know

each one of them had something very very special and something very very unique and by by putting ourselves together and think about how do we really now keep extending this model in different ways because it's a different industry

um you know that's that's what we're trying to bring to to that to the industry and what's the what's the gap you're trying to fill because obviously there's a brief in terms of the type of companies you're trying to acquire and

it's a very crowded space so did you see a massive opportunity in there that wasn't being met well a couple of things uh you know we believe that that you know you have to move from this idea of i'm sick i need

something to how how do you remain healthy or how do you excel at your health goals so that is really moving from sort of a reactive state to a lifestyle of hell that was the first first point so the

second point is most things that are joyous and fun stick so that may be a little benign varies but if it's if it's something that brings the smile to your face you're probably going to keep doing it if it's

something that self perpetuates uh and gives you positive reinforcement so how do we bring joy to health uh what's the other aspect and then thirdly i think what we saw was that the industry was moving towards us people were looking

away from letters and chemical formulations from a pack to like i'm trying to solve this problem uh you know stress sleep uh you know and and how can we help solve those problems and and and that was sort of part of that journey and

it's sort of it's about how you bring in the thinking of you can say fast-moving consumer goods to health and is there anything else you're taking away from ben and jerry's i mean i think ben and jerry paid you the highest

compliment in the new york times article where they said you helped ben and jerry's rediscover its soul i mean that there could be no higher praise but yet here you are building a family of brands for the first time how do you

invest young companies new companies a collection of companies with that sort of shared heart shall we say well you know the uh the soul of a company is its people uh you know they're saying that culture eats strategy for breakfast every day

uh culture is just another name for its people and and what we are doing in in our setup here is we're very much keeping the people and their mission alive so we're not integrating them into like a common set

of values and missions each one remain on their value and mission they're just getting a little extra oomph from being being supported and helped along the journey but it's their journey i think that's the key it's their journey and that's the soul of each one

of these companies and that's what we believe other people are attracted to yeah because you know this new sort of parent experience can't suffocate what made them so special in the first place you know i have to ask

at the enterprise level as a true sustainability leader for so long you know unilever faces the challenge of always being held accountable to this higher bar it sets for itself and i've read in various places that you know

representatives have said that it's hard to meet your sustainability goals when the industry isn't lifting itself up at the same time there's only so much you can do as an individual enterprise or an individual company inside the enterprise

so if you want to be a leader today what do you think you need to do do you need to really embrace pre-competitive collaboration do you need to work cross-sector do you need to advocate for changes with the industry itself and how

important is that in the mix of all the other things that we've touched on if you really want to be a leader so i think all of the things you you listed are are a firm yes and none of them

none of them are an excuse for you not stepping up and taking accountability and responsibility for your own house i think accountability is a gift it's a gift that that sharpens you and drives you uh forward uh i think perfection

is highly overrated you know it's it's about also recognizing we're not perfect and own it i i have gone to so many uh activists and partners and said look we're not perfect we're trying to do this thing we're sort of like i don't

know 50 60 but we're in nobody cares they don't nobody's expecting perfection so i think that's part of the the sort of the trap here is that oh if we don't do these things across collaboration government policies we can't really do anything won't make a

difference not true you will make a difference holding yourself accountable yes but don't be scared of not being perfect act with intent act with clarity around your mission but don't be scared that you're not 100 there because you're

never going to be 100 there you know that sort of begs a a final question i want to ask joe saying which is you know leadership today could not be more different than how it was five or ten

years ago but even more so because of the last couple of years we have the climate crisis we have you know the blm movement you know we have covert and all its variants how would you characterize purposeful effective

leadership moving forward what do we need to be how do we need to show up how do we need to think many things come to mind but servant leadership uh is i think is one of the aspects of this

you know this that the future of companies and the systems that would create the change in our capitalist setup is all about collaboration and and leaders who who try to lead through content and and telling that is is very posse it is about

servant leadership it is about an incredible amount of listening and taking on board it's about creating the conditions around these incredibly passionate people that you have in your company that can do incredible things so that they can get on and do it but

they can be it and live the mission the purpose and the values of the company they sort of figure out the rest so it is a sense of letting go of some of that old style controls but you get so much back

in terms of because people feel that accountability because they're trying to do something bigger so so i do think leaders have to be humble have to be in service of their organizations communities the impact that they're trying to to

achieve have to be extremely active listener and have to be willing to change when circumstances change and and you know no room for egos you know justin i just i want to thank you for being such a damn fine example

of doing it right with true integrity and it puts everyone else on notice and once you see it and you see the success it can drive you can't unknow it and you've done that you know ben and jerry's you've done it at unilever and

now with the new health and wellness division so thank you for the leadership thanks for sharing the insights today and we look forward to seeing what you're going to do with all these new companies watch this space it's been great fun

simon thank you thanks jesse thanks for joining us for another episode of lead with week and you can find out more information about today's guest josten solheim in the description below and if you enjoyed this episode give it a thumbs up and make sure you

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