E886 | Soul Ties—What They Are & How to Break Them — Transcript

I want to talk about the reality of soul ties, inappropriate bonding that takes place very, very easily in a broken world, and how to break them, how to truly get other people's stuff truly off of you and get them back into their place and you in your place. And so to get there, because that idea of you're driving down the road, "Mom, I can't believe it. I was just thinking about you." Well, guess what, folks? She was just thinking about you. Something was going on in the unseen realm where the two of you were truly connecting, and we need to unpack that a little bit because most of the time that's actually not good.

Okay, we're back, and welcome back to the Wild at Heart podcast, John and Allen, in the second part of a conversation that we started last week. So, you don't have to have heard last week's, but this will make a lot more sense if you do. So, you might go back if you missed that episode and listen to that one first.

Yeah. But don't listen to it on 2x. Please don't do that. What? There are some shows or audiobooks or something that's appropriate to do on because you're kind of blowing through, but you don't want to do that with like spiritual, contemplative, soul care podcasts. Right. Yeah, not 2x. And then this week we're going to jump into part two on that, which I think is going to be really intriguing.

Have you ever had—Everybody's had this—the experience where you're driving down the road and you're thinking about your mom or you're thinking about your friend Danny, and 7 seconds later the phone rings, and it's mom. Or it's Danny. Everybody's had this. And people literally say, "Whoa, I can't believe that. I was just thinking about you." Yes.

Well, guess what, folks? There's a reason that that happens. There's a spiritual thing that's going on there that we're going to describe this week because most of that is actually not really healthy.

Now, that's not a good entrance into the pause, but it's maybe going to give us reason to pause.

So, set that down for a moment. We'll explain ourselves in a minute. Last week we gave a challenge.

Yeah, the challenge was for 7 days, and if you didn't hear it last week, maybe you can do this this week, but it was to release everyone and everything, to give everything and everyone to God for 7 days. And by using the pause app. Yeah. And if you did that, we can't talk one-on-one with you, but I am curious, how did it go?

Because we have experienced immense freedom and lightness when we do that. So, I hope you have too if you did that challenge. And if you didn't, there's still time, and we'll talk more about it soon.

Yeah, but let's go ahead and practice it right now. Right. So, we build the pause and benevolent attachment into the front end of every episode for a reason, and it's because the world is mad, and it's trying to keep you spun up and worn out, and there's a way out. You can actually eject from that through this very simple practice. This is why we do it every week.

I need it right now. I need it. I need to do this even though this is deeply ingrained in my being now, I need it today. So, let's pause.

And again, as we enter into the pause, tune in. Tune into your body. Are you tense?

Are you gripping the steering wheel hard? Are you working harder on the treadmill than you need to be right now? Just tune into your body right now.

And as you're doing that, tune into your soul. How are you? What is your condition?

What have you been thinking about? And where have your emotions been? What's been the dominant emotion so far today for you?

Because these are on-ramps to the practice. Oh, okay, yes. I need to give my attention to you, Lord.

My dominant emotion is I've just been mad. Oh, I need to give that to you.

So, this is where we enter into the pause now. Jesus, I give everyone and everything to you.

And take your time and be as specific as you can. We do this in order to come back to you, God. We do this to come back to ourselves and just get out of the madness, but to find you, to find you, God.

So, would you fill me with presence, surround me with your presence, take these things that I've handed over to you, and now meet me here in this week's podcast.

In your beautiful name, Jesus. Amen. Okay. One of my confessions as we're doing the pause every week is I have to give the podcast to him. And the pressure, right, at sitting in front of a microphone and some cameras, yes, naturally produces, right? I mean, we could just sit down with our friends, right, and it was coffee or tacos, I wouldn't feel this, but there is a little bit of pressure that's associated with it. So, I'm trying to let that go so that I can dial in also to what God's saying and what he wants to do this week.

You know what I was thinking about from last week's message? When we were here in the studio, it was that God, like, he gives us such an example in Jesus of how to release everyone and everything.

And I mean, we see that if you just look at the stories throughout the gospels, you don't really hear Jesus complaining in the next story about the last story, right? That woman at the well, well, I'm just still having a hard time with that or whatever it might be, right? Even the Pharisees and, you know, the religious leaders of the time, like, he didn't—it wasn't like he couldn't sleep at night because of that, right? Or he was holding on to offense or a grudge. And man, even when we see him in the garden before his crucifixion, like he's just—he's releasing. He's saying, I don't want this to happen. Like, if it can be avoided, please, please, but not my will, but yours be done. And I was just thinking, that's really the best example we have of a release.

I'm releasing this even though I don't want it to happen, but I release it, right?

That's so good, Alan, because what we were describing last week is Jesus had a rich emotional life.

Mhm. It's not like he was just kind of surfing through everything, taking it all, you know, flippantly.

Right. He had heartache. Yes. He grieved so much over the execution of his cousin, John the Baptist, that he had to leave and go away by himself. You know, he got so exasperated with the disciples at times. Really, really frustrated with the religious people, downright angry. So, you see this rich emotional life. He's a real man. He's a real person.

And what we were describing last week is you also see the lightheartedness. You see he's playful, he's funny.

And people liked being around him. And that's the acid test.

Yes. Right?

Yes. Is a person essentially joyful? Well, do people like being around them?

Because if you're—That's good.

If you're a downer, yeah.

Okay. So, how would you summarize last week?

We were talking about the practice of releasing. That it's essential for us to give the burdens that we have, the worries, the anxiety, the fear, everyone and everything, those we love and those we're angry with, all to God.

Yeah. On a regular daily basis, many times a day.

Yeah. And that by doing that we're not being passive and avoiding a situation or stepping away from something, but we're actually growing internally the way God wants us to be. We're aligning with him. And so that to me was the big takeaway, you know, was just what do we mean by releasing or giving everyone and everything, and then how do we do it?

Yeah. Yeah, that's so good because then you're better situated to know what to do.

Yes. Or if you're supposed to do anything at all.

Yes. Yeah, okay. So towards the end of last week's podcast, we were talking about offloading and other people's stuff, and then realizing that, well, you know, you were talking about why do I release something, but then, you know, 2 hours later, 10 minutes later, 2 weeks later, I find myself I'm having to do it again.

Why is that? And—

And people liked being around him. And that's that's That's the acid test. Yes. Right?

Yes. Is a person essentially joyful? Well, do people like being around them? Mhm. Because if you're That's good.

If you're a downer, yeah um Okay. So, how would you How would you summarize last week?

We were talking about the practice of releasing. Mhm. That it's essential for us to give the burdens that we have, um the worries, the anxiety, the fear, everyone and everything, those we love and those we're angry with, um all to

God Yeah. on a regular daily basis, many times a day. yeah. Yeah, and that by doing that we're not being passive and avoiding a situation or stepping away from something, but we're actually growing internally the way God wants us to be. We're

aligning with him. And so that that to me was the big takeaway, you know, was just what do we mean by releasing or giving everyone and everything, and then how do we do it?

Yeah. Yeah, that's so good because then you're better situated to know what to do.

Yes. Or if you're supposed to do anything at all. Yes. Yeah, okay. So towards the end of last week's podcast, we were talking about offloading uh and other people's stuff, and then realizing that well, you know, you were

talking about why do I release something, but then, you know, 2 hours later 10 minutes later, 2 weeks later, I find myself I'm having to do it again.

Why is that? And and part of that is the house under renovation, right? That we're just not as whole and wholehearted yet as we'd like to be.

Right. So there's more internal uh work that needs to be done. Which is beautiful.

Um but also getting part of it is has to do with the nature we were talking about what it means to be a human being is you are designed for union with God. You are designed for attachment.

Um and also with others. But in a broken world that can get really messed up, and they can project their stuff at you, right? So I want to unpack a little of this and give another practice this week.

Okay. Oh, that is just going to be so so helpful. So put my cards on the table. I want to talk about the reality of soul ties, inappropriate bonding that takes place very, very easily in a broken world, and

how to break them. How How to truly get other people's stuff truly off of you and get them back into their place and you in your place.

Um And so to get there, cuz that that idea of you're driving down the road, "Mom, I can't believe it. I was just thinking about you." Well, guess what, folks?

She was just thinking about you. Something was going on in the unseen realm where the two of you were truly connecting, okay?

And um we need we need to unpack that a little bit because most of the time that's actually not good. In the therapeutic world, there's just been such beautiful breakthrough in, you know, in the last 30 years in what's

called attachment theory. Mhm. Um the fundamental need of human beings to attach. And they were discovering this in a lot of different uh real-life situations, and it was, you know, kind of the famous Romanian um orphanages, where after the

Iron Curtain came down and more human aid, just relief, you know, medical care and food and such, could get into some of these uh Eastern Bloc countries, they were coming into orphanages and finding they were so overrun with um abandoned

children and infants, babies. Um And they just didn't have the staffing for it. That um the babies would receive food, nourishment, uh faithfully. They would be cared for, diapers changed, but then when they would just be put back

in solitude in the crib. Um and they would die. And there was no illness.

It was simply the lack of human care. It was the lack of touch, holding, eye-to-eye.

Okay. Okay. And then, you know, abandonment issues. Um so, one of the famous guys on this was a guy named Bowlby who did some of the early research on attachment theory. And And they were finding that children who

were separated from their mothers, especially initially, um in all day they were placed into care, seemed to suffer more um and suffer longer in life than those that had a healthy attachment with their mother, uh particularly in the childhood

in the infant and childhood years. Okay. So, they began looking at this more and more and going, "Wow, human beings are really made to bond.

We're made for this." And you can see, like, on the cruel side, why would we have chosen solitary confinement Mhm.

as a form of punishment? Yes. You want to really break somebody down? Yes. Okay. And prison camps, they used this terribly, right? As psychological warfare to just tear someone down.

Well, how How beautiful the design that Like, we're discovering something because human beings are made to bond.

Yes. We're made for attachment. And I'm going to put a little um advice out here, if I can. One of the things that's happening now that they're discovering is um because of the cell phone, um nursing mothers, so what's normally

taking place with nursing or or just feeding mothers, nursing or bottle, is you're very proximate, you're very intimate. So, it's skin-on-skin, it's touch. They can feel the rhythm of your body, they can feel your emotions, all that. And it's eye-to-eye, okay? So,

there's this um eye-to-eye contact. And this is how attachment is formed for an infant.

But the problem is now they're discovering the attachment's not forming because mom's are on their phone.

And they're doing this. So, the feeding's going on, but their attention is turned away.

Mhm. And literally the face that turns away is the lack of attachment. Woah. Right?

Yes. So, that's a little bit of a Please don't do that. Please, please, please give give your tender ones your attention.

And it's it's just beautiful that uh the psalmist cries out, "Please do not turn your face from me." Mhm.

Do not turn your face. Right? Yes. Because there is this attachment that we're designed for with God.

Uh-huh. And we talked about that last week that union and communion you can get to it, the vine and branch relationship, through using benevolent attachment, right? Which saying that was one of them.

Yes. essential purposes to get out of the madness of the world. So, the point being humans are created by God in a good and Eden-like environment for healthy attachment.

But in a broken world, what happens is all kinds of unhealthy attachment. And you know, people use the phrase like toxic relationships, codependent.

Right. Right? Even when they try to make it sound good uh like a song, you complete me.

Yes. You know, lyrics like that, right? yes. Where it's like I'm not complete unless I am totally tethered Oh.

to this other Yeah. whoever. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Oh, absolutely. Yeah. Um and so what can take place then because human beings uh are we're now broken uh people living in a very broken world is that that God-given capacity for bonding and

attachment can take place in a myriad of ways that are not healthy. It's not It's not holy. It's not loving.

People bond through traumatic relationships, through violence. Uh um This is Yeah, this is one of the worst statistics of all.

The majority of adults who are rescued from sexual trafficking uh return Mhm. of their own volition.

No. Now, there's There's a variety of reasons behind that. Part Some of Some of it actually is economic. It is because this is literally how they're sending the money back home and they're literally, you know, supporting children, family, that kind of thing.

Um often times, it's deeply demonic. There are demonic strongholds that are taken place there through that kind of trauma, and therefore their captors keep them. But, there is a thing that is trauma bonding that um through totally unhealthy relationships

something so visceral, in including um abusive homes, I'm not talking sexual, I'm talking just violent or psychological abuse, um creates an unhealthy bond.

And people, you know, women and men will stay in marriages they should not stay in that are damaging, violent, abusive um because some sort of deep [sighs] tie Yes.

has taken place there Yes. because of the God-given design. Yes. You are meant to bond, but bonding can take place in unhealthy ways.

Which is also one of the reasons you should never have sex before you're married.

Yep. Uh Uh, whether that's in a relationship or whether that's with a prostitute or anything, right? Like Yeah. Oh, yeah, Paul talks about um, uniting yourself.

He warns against should you unite light with darkness? That um, sexual ties are are a very real kind of soul tie, very real kind of human bonding.

Uh and yeah, we weren't even planning on getting into this, but since we're raising these categories, I need to start giving some counsel.

Um, uh, let me tell you what to do about that in a minute. Um, the point that we're making is God designed us for the vine and branch relationship. We were talking about that last week.

Right. And the beauty of using I give everyone and everything to you is to get out of the madness of the world and all the drama Right.

and just kind of literally like collect yourself Yes. and give yourself back to God.

[laughter] It's a way of just Woo, I'm back. Yes. Sorry, I've been gone for a while.

I'm here again. And you come into a restored um, experiential union. I don't think you can ever be fully taken away from God. I believe you're safe in him, but an experiential enjoyment of his love Yes.

peace or counsel or whatever you need. Yes. Okay? Um, but because we have this God-given faculty, um, people will try and create ties with you and you with them through a whole variety of other means. Obviously, controlling parents do this.

Mhm. Parents that aren't able to release their children, particularly their adult children. I I was counseling a young man a number of years ago and he was talking about I'm listening to this like Oh, it sounds like too close of a

relationship with his mom for an adult young man. He was just it it was just something in the vibe of the relationship and I'm like, well wait a second.

You say you talked to her a lot. Like how often do you talk to your mom? And he goes, oh every day.

Like, wait, what? She calls you every day? He's like, yes, is that wrong? Like well um for a independent young adult male living in another city trying to get his life started and particularly trying to establish his own healthy new

relationships. Yes. Yeah. That doesn't feel like she's actually released you. Feels like she's trying to hang on to some kind of intimacy there.

Yes. Yeah. Right? Right. And we see that with um you know, also relationships where if you're in a dating relationship where the other person is calling like every 30 minutes or an hour even though there's nothing new to say

or Constant texting. Constant texting, right? That's not a healthy relationship. they're looking to attach in an unhealthy way.

Cuz it's like that's too much. That's that's a grasping. That's a reaching. That's a whoa, whoa, whoa, you're you're asking me to fill your cup in a way that I'm just not designed to fill your cup.

Yes. Okay. That kind of thing. So, controlling parents would be an example. Um anxious uh uh anxious relationships where they're constantly looking for reassurance. Hi, how are you? Just checking in. Hey, did you see my you know, and I know I know

friends who have had to separate out of relationships like that because the person was literally texting like 50 times a day. And it's like, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, just what is going on here? There's an anxiousness for

attachment. Yes. And reassurance there. These kinds of behaviors and postures. So, it's both an internal thing and it's a behavior, create soul ties.

Sexual relationships create them. As you said, but all kinds of other things create them as well. Unhealthy relationships, controlling parents. Um, but also obsession.

And this is that thing of um, somebody says something you just can't get out of your head and either cuz you're mad or because that was so unfair and it's unjust or and you are And so when you start having a

conversation with someone who is not in the room. [laughter] Warning, warning, warning, warning, time out. You um, you are beginning to create in the unseen realm, you are projecting into an unhealthy attachment with them and something of a soul tie.

Okay? And um, soul ties are very, very telling. Uh, because you will pick up whatever their stuff is. Okay, so my my dear wife and she's told the story publicly, so I have permission to tell it. Her mother

is with Jesus now and uh, we love you Jane. Uh, Jane was a very, very overwhelmed woman. She lost her husband.

She had a number of years uh, in our adult years and in our young marriage Jane was a widow.

And Jane was very overwhelmed having to deal with unhealed trauma of her own. And Stace would get on her um, weekly, which is fine, phone call with her mom. That's that's great. You want to check in, of course. And she would

get off the phone call and she would be overwhelmed. I mean, like existentially, experientially, bodily overwhelmed.

She'd be like, "Oh my gosh, I just And she would kind of move into this state of being that I'm like Whoa, whoa, whoa, babe.

Yes. Honey, I I don't think this is you. Mhm. And she's like, what? And I'm like, well, hun, like you weren't overwhelmed before you got on the phone.

Mhm. You had a great day. The There was no overwhelm in the room, but now after talking to your mom who is overwhelmed, you are overwhelmed.

Yes. And she was beginning to go, oh, wait a second. You mean this isn't just me?

This isn't my own actual experience of life? Mhm. And I'm like, well, why don't we try this? Why don't we try breaking the soul tie?

The unhealthy attachment with your mom that just took place in that phone call because she's projecting herself and you get enmeshed and don't know how to keep that healthy. Why don't we do this?

And so uh gang, Galatians 6:14, I'm going to read this and then talk about the application of it. We can unpack some more of this. Galatians 6:14, Paul says this.

May I never boast except in the cross of our Lord Jesus Christ through which the world has been crucified to me and I to the world.

Mhm. You're like, whoa, that's a really powerful statement. I wonder what that means. May I never boast except in the cross of our Lord Jesus through which I'm crucified to the world and the world is crucified to me. So, if you do a

little Bible study and you look up what does he mean by the world? What's Paul talking about there? So, the Greek is the word cosmos.

Okay. Which sounds fairly all-encompassing. Right. [laughter] Yes. What comes to mind when you think of the cosmos Allen?

Everything. Yeah. Yes. I mean Sort of like all creation, right? Oh, yeah, beginning to end.

Yeah, but then listen to how particular it gets. Like yes, it starts there. But then it goes into the inhabitants of the earth.

The human family. Is caught up in the use of this world. Here's the next one, the ungodly multitude.

The mass of mankind alienated from God and hostile to the cause of Christ. So that's part of what is caught up in the cosmos. At least the Greek meaning of the word, right? And then the last one here is world affairs.

Right? The whole circle of earthly pleasures advancement activities the aggregate of things earthly. You go, "Whoa, it would be really good to be crucified to all that." Okay, so the cross of Jesus Christ it changes all human relationships.

And we could go way down a rabbit hole on this, but it's because you have been literally purchased with the blood of Christ for God. This is what they the big worship song goes up in Revelation.

That then you see him for you have purchased from every tribe and tongue and language of people for yourself.

You have been ransomed from the kingdom of darkness. That's Paul in Colossians 1. Transferred to the kingdom of God. So so many powerful things take place when you receive your salvation in Christ. The cross changes so many of

your relationships. Changes priorities, it changes affections, but this actually is a real thing in the unseen realm.

So let's come back to sexual relations. So as I early in my career as a therapist, I was counseling a lot of college students and you're going to run into a lot of sexual misconduct.

But the problem was then they couldn't get out of it. Like the girls would say, "Oh, I know it's a totally unhealthy relationship, but every time he calls I I just can't say no." Oh, we've got a tie There's an

attachment here. Yes. Right? Right. As a father of a daughter, you're hyper-vigilant over this.

Totally. Yeah, absolutely. Yeah. Um and so what we would have to do before anything healthy could take place, sort it out, is he even the right guy for you? Go, "No, no, no, first we need to break this unhealthy bond

that was created not just through your emotional, but through your physical intimacy. And here's what we would do.

It's very simple, folks, is I bring the cross of Jesus Christ Yes. between me and my boyfriend. And I break the unhealthy bonds.

As Paul says, the cross does. It breaks those bonds for me. I bring the cross of Christ between me and my boyfriend, and if it was sexual, you say, "Lord, I'm so sorry. I repent of my my sexual sin.

I break the sexual ties and bonds through the cross of our Lord Jesus Christ." And then here's the interesting thing, and I send all of his stuff back to him.

It's big. Right? Yeah. All that he wants to project onto me, the possessiveness, the further sensuality, the Yeah, all that. Uh-uh.

Uh-uh. I send that all back cuz I am crucified now through the cross of Christ.

Boom. Normally, it's instantaneous. That That people will feel a literal physical and spiritual shift. They'll go, "Oh my gosh, he's gone." Like, "Whoa." But more importantly, they will suddenly feel the ability to make a good decision and go, "What am I

thinking? How did I get tied into this knucklehead? I don't want to marry this guy. I'm out." Yes.

So, they're able to come into like a clear-headedness. And this is, as we were talking about, you know, releasing last week and this week, this is a step further. So, in other words, I just want to us to be

clear like Yes. It's in that situation, you wouldn't just want to say, "Well, I give him to God or I release him to God." Lord. I I give I release him to you.

Yeah. Uh-uh, you've already got a bond that's there. Yes. You got to break that unhealthy tie. And And part of this came up because you asked the question last week "Well what do I do with those situations where

I I mean, I tried. I released him 10 minutes ago, but I'm already thinking about him again. I mean, me they're so upset or I'm anxious." So, you can have anxious soul tie attachments when you're obsessing over someone going,

"Ooh, how are they? How are they doing? Are they okay with what I said? Ooh, maybe I shouldn't have said that." And you're you start creating Yes.

in the unseen realm, you're creating a kind of bond with them through your anxiousness.

And And we've named, you know, dating relationships. We've named uh a mom or a parent, right? But, this could be something with your pastor, yep, right? Where you're constantly thinking about what he's saying or what's going on. It

could be your boss. It could be, you know, any number of people. So, it doesn't have to just be very close relationships, right? It's who you're obsessing over.

Yeah. This is going to be so helpful for people, but it does take a little more unpacking.

So, um you remember the uh cartoon um Peanuts with Charlie Brown and Snoopy Linus and Lucy, yeah.

And was a character named Pig Pen. Yes. Yeah, poor little guy. [laughter] And he always had kind of this dust cloud around him.

Yes. Okay. I want you to I want you to imagine cute little figure that's got this dust cloud around them, everybody, if you haven't seen that. Uh well, the thing is, if you get into that gravitational field, you step into that, you're going

to start choking on that. Mhm. Okay? Everybody has a gravitational field around them. And it is partly their stuff, and it's partly their warfare.

Okay. And it's partly what the kingdom of darkness is trying to do to them, okay?

But you can step into people's gravitational kind of field, and you'll you'll feel it.

I discovered this as a young therapist, where I would I would be between clients, and I'd be getting that moment of clarity, take a few notes, release that session, get a cup of coffee, kind of settle myself, get ready for the next

one. When all of a sudden, like I was suddenly just feel anxious. I'd be like, "Whoa, I'm so anxious about this next session, doubts about it, and that sort of thing." And then the client would walk in and go,

"Oh, that's right. Your thing is anxiety." Mhm. I was picking that up before you even got in the building.

Wow. Whoa. And the other thing that really alerted me to this was, cuz it was very distressing at first, was the sexual stuff. Is that I'd be in that moment of clarity, I might walk out of my office,

you know, walk around the building once, and suddenly I just be feeling all this sexual arousal temptation thoughts something right?

Yes. Kind of out of the blue. Uh-huh. And at first I'd be like, "You are kidding me, John. Like, get your stuff together, buddy. Crucify the flesh. What are you doing?" And then the guy would walk in for his

session, and I'd go, "Oh, you're the one with the pornography addiction. That me, that was you. That was your stuff. Okay?

Yeah. Spiritual warfare loves soul ties because it will jump through them. Mhm. Okay? And like Stacy with her mom, dear Jane was overwhelmed through much of her life.

Stacy's not. Stacy gets on the phone and gets this unhealthy tie going through the call and now all of Jane's stuff has jumped on Stacy.

Yes. So, this is another wonderful reason to practice Galatians 6:14. It's you're not being unkind. You're not being unloving.

Yes. In fact, if you want to be kind and loving, you need a clear head Yes.

and a clear like being towards this person that you care for. Therefore, please like I bring the cross of Christ between me and my mom. This is what we would do.

Yes. And I send mom back. Mom, you need to go back. And all of her warfare I send to the throne of Christ over her life.

Mhm. Okay? I send it back to you, Jesus, to be her savior and to get their warfare off of you.

Yes. Oh my gosh. Well, and also when you're praying for somebody, right? So, a friend, a neighbor, at a at a you know, church event or whatever, you need to after that time of, you know, I'm you're praying off

something that's on them or for breakthrough, but they're they're struggling with something, there's a demonic stronghold, anything like that, it's a great practice to then Thank you.

before you leave the room, just walk let them walk away and you go to your place, walk away and then just say, "Okay, God, I bring the cross of Christ Yes.

between me and this person and may nothing but the bond of love be between us.

Yes. But and that releasing of that, but but through the you don't want anything to cross over, right? Or you don't want to pray something off them that then jumps on you.

jumps on you. Yeah, 100%. That's so good. Yeah, this isn't just for therapists Yes.

or pastors or people in helping professions. No, no, no. This this is because we have this beautiful design to bond.

Attachment is really really important for human develop- and and health. There are healthy bonds.

Mhm. Right? Uh the marriage bond is very That's intended to be a very healthy bond. I'm not talking about violence and abuse. I'm just saying within that, scripture says that's a lovely picture of Christ The two become one.

Yep. Two become one. So, there's healthy bonding. There's healthy friendships. Jonathan and David are modeled as having some really unique bond between them, but it was it was healthy.

Uh-huh. And so, because of the broken world, yeah, I just guarantee you, people are going to project their stuff at you.

You're going to grasp and try and arrange stuff at that. You're going to obsess over them, the people you can't forgive.

Well, you're probably going to want to break soul ties. And this was all around, why can't I give everyone and everything to you?

Yes. Right? We were starting with that question. Right. Right. Why Why does my mom keep coming up? Why can't Why does that former boss of mine who fired me so unfairly keep It's like, well, you're still mulling it over.

Yes. And you've You may benefit from bringing the cross between you. Now, I do want to ask this. What if you're in your car and you're thinking of someone who you've had a great relationship, a friendship in Christ in.

And it's healthy. And you're thinking, "Wow, I haven't talked to, you know, whoever, you know, Bob in you know, 6 months. I wonder how he's doing.

And then Bob calls or, you know, that moment? Well, in that moment or, you know, an hour later, you get a text. Well, I guess I'm asking, are there examples where that's not actually a soul tie, but it's it's a spirit's

nudge? Oh, yes. Yes, of course. that's a positive thing, cuz I don't want people thinking anytime I think of somebody.

[laughter] Yeah, cuz we don't want you to get all obsessed over this, folks. It's just a really helpful tool in a world of broken attachments, right?

It's just a helpful, okay? Um but yes, of course, cuz a spirit will do that. The spirit will prompt you.

Uh-huh. You want to give Danny a call, right? Yes. And you call Danny, and Danny's in a place of need, and he's like, "Oh my gosh, I can't I can't pay my rent this month. I can't believe you just called

me. What made you even think of it?" And you're like, "You know what? I'm not sure." But it was God Yes.

that made you think Not a soul tie. Yeah, it's not a soul tie. Yeah. Sure, of course. And [snorts] Okay, the Holy Spirit will give you insight into people.

He He will do that. Right? You'll be sitting with someone, and you'll just have a sense. You go, "Gosh, they don't seem well.

I wonder if I should ask them how they're doing." You know, you kind of check in, maybe.

Uh-huh. Check in with Jesus. You want me to ask that? Like, he'll give you intuitions.

He'll give you it They're Holy Spirit-given discernment. Sure, absolutely. Not a soul tie. If you find it difficult later to stop thinking about them, you probably ought to bring the cross of Christ between the two of you. Cuz it's

a healthy thing, cuz the lovely thing about bringing the cross, first off, it's not you're not being mean.

The cross is the most holy thing in the universe. And the cross does not prevent the love of Christ from coming between right. And in the end, that's all we want.

Yes. Exactly. That's all we want. And so I can hear one of the questions that would come up right now. So what about spouses who are in that unique marriage bond, but they're with a spouse who is behaving poorly or

you know, Yep, I would I would I would bring the cross of Christ between you and your spouse. If you if you know that they have a deep pornography addiction, yep, you don't want all that jumping on you,

you know, just that goo. The gross. Yep, so it's like, no Lord, I do keep your cross. I keep your blood between me and my spouse. Only you, Jesus. Only you between us. You can do that.

It's very healthy. It's very appropriate thing to do. In those situations where you're aware of oh wow, they are opening the doors to darkness in ways that I don't want to I don't want any part of that or they're

obsessing and can't forgive the church or can't you know, and you're like, I'm good. I forgive. Uh-uh, I'm not going to let that in.

No, I I keep the cross of Christ against all that. Uh-uh, like that that's your thing.

But I I'm not going to participate in that. And also this works for something that happened maybe 20 years ago.

Cuz I know in our men's gatherings and events you will have a prayer on healing, right? And some of that is the man, you know, maybe 50 and it may be something that happened when he was 18 or 20. So

this doesn't have to be in the immediate moment. You can go back and have healing.

Oh yeah. Yes, for a couple of reasons. One because soul ties will last Um, until you or that person dies, uh, if you don't break them. So, you can you might Oh gosh, this is an amazing story. Okay, I'm going to have to cloak

this story out of respect, but this is so beautiful. I have to tell this.

Okay. So, we were in a conference, uh, in the in the American Southwest. We were we were down in one of the Southwest states. It was one of our more intimate retreats.

And there there was, um, there it was a couple's thing that was going on. It was a couple's event.

And the woman came up to me during one of the breaks and confessed that she actually had never really, uh, felt much for her current husband.

They had been married for 40 years. 40 years. And she's like, I I just don't know what to do with this. Cuz we were talking about the healing of the heart and the healing of childhood wounds and that

kind of stuff we talk about. And she's like, I don't know what to do with this, but I just need to tell you, I I I'm faithful. You know, I've never had an affair, but I still don't feel anything

towards him. Uh, and like, well, let's invite Christ into this. You know, and this was right before a session. So, what do you say, you know? I'm like, let's invite Jesus in and ask him for some clarity.

Uh, well, next morning, she walks in before the opening session and she says, you're not going to believe what happened last night. I, as I was going to bed, I suddenly remembered, um, a relationship that I had in

college. And it was it was with, uh, it was with a man, uh, from another country that I completely fell in love with. And it was sort of one of those stories of I gave my heart to him. I gave my body to him. We were

really passionate. Um, and and then he just left. Um, and that's actually the only person I've ever really loved.

And I'm like, "Whoa. Whoa. Well, whatever else we need to do, Yes. whatever work needs to be done now, I can tell you, you know, two things we can do right now is you And this is this is,

you know, 30 years ago or whatever. I'm like, "We have to break the sexual bond that was formed there with the cross of Christ. And we need to break the emotional, the soul tie that was also formed there. Let's just bring the cross

of Christ." A very simple prayer. I bring the cross of Christ between me and uh and I I break the ties and I break the bonds that were formed.

She literally felt it in her body, felt some sort of shift going on. [snorts] And by the end of the conference, she came up to me and she says, "You're not going to believe this, but um my husband asked me if we could spend

a few more days here just the two of us, and I'm excited about it." [clears throat] Love it.

Oh my god. Breakthrough. Yes. this incre- I mean, 40 years. What? Yes. And here it was based on a soul tie and an unhealthy sexual tie as well.

It's like, "Whoa. Holy smokes." Just one last thing I wanted to offer is if somebody has a soul tie with you, but you don't have a soul tie with them, Exactly.

and they're never going to break it or don't know what it even means or you can still break that, right?

ding, ding. Ding, thank you so much. So, if you know that someone is bitter towards you, if you know that someone is obsessing about you, if you're getting those, you know, 25 texts a day from the friend that you're like, "Whoa. Whoa. Whoa.

That's just a little too much." Yes. It's a healthy thing to say, "No, I forbid the formation." Cuz they're projecting. They want one.

Yes. Right. They want a soul tie. Uh by the way, I've had a number of mothers of adult children confess to me, "I don't want to break the soul tie because it lets me feel what they're feeling, and I like that connection."

Okay. I'm like, [clears throat] "Row, row, oh, oh, maybe on their behalf?" [laughter] Right.

So, if you are aware that you have a controlling parent, if you are aware that someone's obsessing against you, projecting, uh unforgiveness, rage towards you, it's just a healthy thing to um bring the cross of Christ between you

and forbid the formation of any unhealthy tie. Good. Okay? Can I bring up one more category?

Of course. Okay. Not a soul tie, um but it is part of this releasing and letting go of everyone and everything.

Yeah, yeah, yeah. I encountered, uh a real struggle just in in my father This is about my dad. He passed away almost 20 years ago. So, this is not a current thing in terms of when he passed away but

he was a very good man in terms of, you know, he would tell me, "I'd love being a dad." He would show up at events. Um He He loved me deeply, but he couldn't communicate. Um he couldn't have

engaging conversations on any level that was deeper than the weather, the sports team, Yeah.

current events. Um and I tried. Not, "Allen, how is your heart this evening?" There's not even a heart category.

Yeah. For himself or for for me. Yeah. And as long as he was alive and I started getting into this message, which was, you know, I was in my uh late 20s, 30s, but I kept trying and trying and

not expecting a ton, but just you know, I'd send him a card where I just told him how much I cared for him and and his influence on me and I wouldn't hear anything and I wouldn't hear anything.

And when I called him and said, "Hey, did you get that card?" He'd be like, "Yeah. Oh, yeah.

So, hey, um I was thinking, you know, when you're mowing your yard next week" da da da da da da, right?

Yeah. And and I always held out this hope until he passed away that it would break. Something would happen. We would have those conversations. It would get there.

Yeah. I even gave him a copy of Wild at Heart and he said, "Well, you know, I'm really I'm not that much of a book reader." And I said, "Well, hey, it's on audio." And gave him the book on audio and he tried

to listen, uh he told me and he goes, "I just I don't get this. Like, I just don't" He was a believer. He's like, "I I don't understand what this is meaning." So, nothing was working. Well, he passes away and I'm talking to Kelly

about it, processing and I said, "I just you know, it's hard not to be frustrated or or just to like, I just I'm having a hard time releasing this.

Yeah. The the lack of what did not happen." And she said, "Well, babe, he's doing the best he can. He did the best he could." And that phrase is what I wanted to go into for just a second is

because I know I'm not alone in that you know, when something happens against you or maybe doesn't happen for you with a from a person you love Yeah.

um a parent, a spouse, whoever and that the response back is, "Well, they did the best they could." I struggled with that because I don't first of all, I don't know if that's true. Like, I was thinking "Well, my dad could have gone to

counseling. Like, he didn't probably get that from his dad but he could have broken that. He could have done more soul care. He could have pursued it. He could have asked me, 'Hey, I'm noticing you feel like Yeah.

I'm not engaging enough. Let me tell you why. Yeah. Anything, right? But it never happened.

So, you have been a counselor, you are a counselor, you're a sage, spiritual father.

What Help me process that and in in terms of whether, you know, my dad's not alive, so I can't change the relationship with him but But you were talking about the difficulty of releasing.

Yeah, the tension of releasing that. Okay. So, first off, let's name it. For you are hurt and mad.

You're not just frustrated, okay? You're hurt and angry. Okay? And you should be. So, remember last week I was talking about the thing that gets me so mad is the changing of the narrative.

And somebody steps into a story where there was catastrophic parental failure and says, "Oh, well, they did the best they could." I want to throw a chair through a window and go, "BS, man. BS.

You are changing the narrative." What happened was that Alan's dad did not choose to engage.

Now, his dad generational line. Okay, okay. That's all very real. I understand that. But you never want to take away human agency because you strip people of dignity, right? And say, "Well, I guess my dad was just incapable of it." You go, "BS,

man. First off, it delegitimizes your hurt and disappointment." It just did, right? When she said, you're like, "Well, dang, cuz I'm just left holding that, right?" You go, "No, no, no, no, no. That's real.

That's real. And and that is something to be forgiven. It is a failure that needs to be forgiven versus an inadequacy that needs to just be excused.

So, it's a different kind of release. Forgiveness. Yes. For a real failure, which you can only forgive someone genuinely once you name what you're forgiving.

Mhm. Right? Yes. Or just this vague, "Well, Lord, I guess, you know, I'm bless my dad." You go, "No, no, no, no, no, no, that won't heal this internal loss." You go, "Lord, this is real.

I am so hurt. I forgive his failure of me." Mhm. Versus, "Well, Kelly's right, you know, he said Nah-uh, that doesn't work.

And I know Kelly's good heart in that way right? she's absolutely She was trying. She was Yeah.

Yeah, she's going to listen to the podcast. Kelly, you're wonderful. I understand what you were trying to do.

You're trying to help, and it I get it. Yeah. But, the healing has to be and there's some truth to that. I'm going to Yes, Kelly, you're right.

There's some There's some truth to that. That you you know, people in chemical addictions, I mean, you know, that um that messes with your brain. It messes with you It changes your personality.

Mhm. And so, you know, when you're talking about growing up in alcoholic homes and that sort of thing or spouse with a deep deep addiction who who just failed profoundly to attach to the kids, for example, you go,

"Yes, we can have mercy. Uh-huh. We can have mercy towards your dad and go 'Dang he probably didn't get it, either.'" He probably did better than his dad.

Yeah. But, Yeah, you can feel empathy towards him, but so that's true. That's the Kelly's part of like, come on, hon. Like, yep.

That's true. And you don't want to minimize the real failure. Also. Okay. So, gang, all of this started with the invitation uh that Jesus says, I I actually have a very light yoke.

Uh my burden is light and my yoke is easy. My yoke is easy, my burden is light.

Um that to hook up to me, to attach to me, to come alongside and be one with me, you're actually going to discover lightheartedness.

You're going to discover there's a lot of things in this world you can just let it you can let it go.

Let it go. Let it go. This is a conversation that goes on in our house a lot. Just let it go.

[laughter] Let it go. You I- I- And that's actually healthy. That's maturity. That's not irresponsibility, okay? And then Peter invites us to cast all of our cares upon God on a regular basis as a way of just offloading. I just got to get I just

have to give this to you, Lord. And then what you were pointing out, Alan, last week was when you do that, you're you're actually in a better place to then know if you even should say something.

Yes. Do you call them back or not? Do you call them tonight or do you wait?

Yes. Maybe you wait a couple days to answer that email that's got you so fried.

Well, if you can get a little bit of distance Yeah. and offload this to Christ, you're just going to discover the most lovely thing, which is this easy easy and light. Um And then we got into, yeah, but there's

some really sticky situations where that's hard. And often times that's because there's a soul tie there. And that's why we we went off down into or there was a romantic relationship or there was a sexual bond or some There's someone I'm

having a really hard time. Yes. It could be that there's a soul tie there or it could be that the genuine harm has not been named.

Mhm. Mhm. And and you're you know, people are just saying, "Oh, just let it go." And you're like, "No, no, no, there is like genuine harm that my soul needs healing in." Oh, okay. Well, let's name the harm. Let's

get Christ there. Right. And now what you're doing instead of, "Lord, I just release, you know, my boss to you." Now what you're doing is going, "I forgive that." "That was wrong." That's huge.

"I forgive that." And then you will find yourself much easier to let them go. And then as the days and months go on, you're like, "You know what? I'm not even thinking about him anymore. I just I I'm not mulling over that anymore."

You're like, "Awesome." Yes. And for people who are saying, "Right, right, but what about this or you don't know my situation here." I think what we'd want to invite and we tried to cover some of them the things, but what

we would say is just start with the Pause app or go back into it because a lot of the times you don't need the control of having to know how it will all play out Yeah.

or or but I don't think this situation applies. Just start with it. Yes. And I found amazing healing when I just enter into it with childlike wonder and hopefulness right?

Yeah. So just start there. Give it a week. If you didn't do it last week or if you did, give it another week. Stay in this.

Yeah, and and uh once in a while we give a shout out to the daily prayer because in the daily prayer we bring the cross of Christ between us and everyone.

It's just a healthy practice. And this is why we do it. Yes. So that only the love of God can can pass between us and others, right?

Yeah. So good. Thank you for bringing this up Sure. and suggesting this. Well, thank you. It's This helps me immensely.

Yes, just it was so good. Hope you enjoyed it, gang. We'll see you next week.

Hey friends, this is Alan. Thanks for being part of this week's podcast. And before you rush off into what's next, we invite you to spend some time reflecting with God on what you've heard and on where he's leading.