Speaker A
I apologize in advance because in settings like that, which are quasi-therapeutic, I tend to be a little bit more aggressive than I would be in a normal interaction. So if I'm impolite, I apologize.
An insightful conversation with Jacob, diagnosed with NPD, exploring identity, emotional struggles, and misconceptions about narcissistic personality disorder.
Key Takeaways
- NPD is often misunderstood and stigmatized, leading to frustration for those diagnosed.
- Living with NPD involves a complex interplay of identity, emotional regulation, and social interaction.
- Emotional callousness can serve as a protective mechanism against hurt and dependency.
- Family dysfunction and past trauma heavily influence the development of narcissistic traits.
- Despite challenges, individuals with NPD seek connection but struggle with trust and vulnerability.
Summary
- Jacob shares his personal experience living with narcissistic personality disorder (NPD) and the frustration with public misconceptions.
- He discusses how NPD became a core part of his identity, both a blessing and a curse.
- Jacob explains the pride he once took in emotional callousness as a defense mechanism.
- He reflects on family dynamics and how unreliability shaped his distrust and emotional independence.
- The conversation highlights the complexity of emotions in NPD, including loneliness and the desire for control.
- Jacob admits to exploitative behaviors but differentiates himself from others in his family.
- The interview touches on the social adaptability and unique aspects of living with NPD.
- Jacob expresses the challenge of balancing vulnerability with maintaining a protective self-image.
- The discussion reveals the internal conflict between needing others and protecting oneself from harm.
- The video aims to educate and humanize the experience of NPD beyond common stereotypes.
Chapters
- 00:00Introduction and Setting Expectations
- 01:53NPD as Part of Identity
- 03:35Emotional Impact and Callousness
- 05:30Pride in Emotional Independence
- 07:30Family Influence and Distrust
- 10:30Protective Mechanisms and Exploitative Behaviors
- 13:05Balancing Vulnerability and Control
- 14:30Reflections on Loneliness and Social Adaptability
- 17:29Closing Thoughts and Gratitude
Full Transcript — Download SRT & Markdown
Speaker A
You don't have to. That's okay. That's fine. And I don't think we're doing real therapy here. I mean, I think we're just basically kind of getting to know each other, having a weird conversation.
Speaker A
We're just trying to have a weird conversation. So, thank you for agreeing to participate in this interview, but maybe you could tell me a little bit more about yourself and what got you interested in volunteering for this.
Speaker A
Uh, okay. So, my name is Jacob. I was born in a small rust belt city in the Midwest. Around the age of 21, I was officially diagnosed with narcissistic personality disorder. Uh, and there came a point in my life where
Speaker A
I was kind of frustrated by the misinformation regarding the pathology, and I was just kind of wanting attention and stuff. So I started some social media platforms in order to educate people better on the realities
Speaker A
of living with the disorder that wasn't just painting it to be, you know, evil malevolent monsters.
Speaker A
Mhm. So you're really on a mission more. Yeah. It feels like a crusade sometimes.
Speaker A
Say more about that. Uh, I get very frustrated with a lot of people just because I am offering information from my own personal experience and from empirical studies, and people are so caught up in these preconceived notions
Speaker A
of narcissism that they will just dismiss the very accurate information I give just out of principle of like, "Oh, well, I knew a narcissist, therefore everything you're saying is wrong." So it's a very tiring experience most of
Speaker A
the time. And then there's also the added thing of like, you know, my pathology feels like one of the only real things about me but one of the only things I know is like a thing,
Speaker A
and so that can become part of my identity, and sometimes I find myself trying to lean into that in order to maintain a sense of like, "Oh, this is who I am."
Speaker A
So it's like a blessing and a curse. This is something that you know about yourself, but it's also something you're trying to keep in check more or less. I mean, obviously there's a lot of cons when it comes to like
Speaker A
loneliness and emotional dysregulation, self-esteem fluctuations, but like there are pros when it comes to it. It does make me feel unique. It makes me feel like there's something about me that I know that it is me.
Speaker A
Um, it gives me more of a social adaptability sometimes. Well, at least at first.
Speaker A
Um, so yeah, there's a lot of pros and cons to it, I would say.
Speaker A
Can you say more about the unique part? What's unique about that? I mean, it's not a particularly common affliction.
Speaker A
So, it's like, and like, I mean, you go on the internet and stuff and you see all these articles that describe me as like a monster and stuff like that. And I'm like, this is a rare thing that intrinsically, due to public perception, has a lot of power, and that is enjoyable sometimes. What do you enjoy about it?
Speaker A
I don't know. It's just that I like, because I guess I like feeling powerful, in control, like people can't affect me.
Speaker A
I suppose like the callousness I used to always take so much pride in, like the callousness that I had. Um, that was probably defensive in itself as well. Like when I was younger, I'd be like, "Oh, well, you know, I don't
Speaker A
need attachments. I don't need people. That's for, you know, pathetic people." Um, you know, I thought that not grieving was like, you know, made me better than people. I wasn't as affected by a lot of
Speaker A
emotionality. Ironically, I am affected strongly by emotionality. I mean, anger is an emotion, right?
Speaker A
Um, but yeah, you said something about taking pride in being callous, and I'm curious, how did it become this way that you started taking pride in that?
Speaker A
So, one of my earliest, it was strange because one of my earliest memories, not earliest memories, but like earliest memory of me having any sort of thing that might be related to how I ended up
Speaker A
developing was being at a funeral. I'm thinking like everybody else was either faking or being dramatic when it came to them expressing their grief.
Speaker A
Mhm. Um, or they thought that they were doing it because they had to or something. Um, and you know, eventually I was like, "Hm, maybe it's actually me that's a little off here." And I think I didn't
Speaker A
really know how to grapple with that. And for a long time, how I did was just like, "Well, okay, then it's pathetic to grieve. It's pathetic to need love. It's pathetic to need anybody." Um, I was like, "I'm above people
Speaker A
because I don't need these things that so many people seem to." I was always disgusted with my parents because of how they, after the divorce, it seemed like they were so, so, like it was so necessary for them to get into
Speaker A
a new relationship just to exist. And I found that dependency just disgusting. And even to this day, I see people who are in relationships that are obviously, like, how do I put it? They are dependent on each other. They are
Speaker A
like I never see one of them without the other. And I'm like, how do you lose yourself in a relationship like that?
Speaker A
How are you such, like, not a person that you need somebody else in order to prop you up like that?
Speaker A
And I know that's irrational to a certain degree, but I think yeah, the freedom from the limitations of emotion was something that made me that I took a lot of pride in.
Speaker A
So you felt that you were able to make yourself independent of needing other people or being dependent on other people. Why? What was attractive about this for you at that time?
Speaker A
Other people just, I mean, well, because other people are unreliable. I mean, everybody at the end of the day, or at least who was unreliable at that time?
Speaker A
I mean everyone. And hell, and perhaps, I mean, and it's probably confirmation bias, but it always felt like people had been unreliable.
Speaker A
I mean, like, you know, my mom left my dad for a woman. My dad started dating like a heroin junkie. My sister is nuts even, which says a lot. She was diagnosed with ASPD and BPD. So she was a handful to say the least.
Speaker A
It's like everybody in that family was always out, well, family was always out to, like, it was always just like this, whoever could exploit the other person first. You couldn't depend on people. Depending on people is what got you hurt. It's what got your sister stealing from you.
Speaker A
So if you get close to people, they will hurt you. Sounds about right. I mean, or at least you're giving yourself the opportunity to be hurt, and it's like, I don't know why put yourself in a
Speaker A
position like that. So if you don't want to get hurt, you may as well just think that you're disgusted and above people, I would say. So I mean, at least I'm not stupid enough to put myself in positions
Speaker A
where I could get hurt. So you are protecting yourself in that way. Sure. Yeah.
Speaker A
But also you're not becoming like them. I guess it means you're not trying to hurt them back.
Speaker A
So in some ways you become better than they are. Yeah, I would say so. I mean, it's what it's always felt like at least. I mean, and I know I could be, well, that's the thing. I knew I could be exploitative at
Speaker A
times, but it's like in what ways? Never like I would never steal or anything, but like I know that I, you know, I know they use people for self-esteem regulation. Or like, I don't know, there were times that like I
Speaker A
had a friend, like I would have friends, and there were a few times I ended up sleeping with my friends' partners and stuff like that.
Speaker A
Things I'm not especially proud of. I would do things like that, and I'd be like, why did I...
Speaker A
had a friend like I would have friends and like there's a few times I ended up sleeping with like my friends uh partners and stuff like that.
Speaker A
Things I'm not especially proud of. I would do things like that and I'd be like why did I do that? That was like so stupid. Mhm.
Speaker A
Um like I didn't know why I did it, but it's like it wasn't I still couldn't believe that I couldn't see the pros and the cons to the extent I still allowed myself to do it.
Speaker A
So you felt like you lost control over something that you should have been more rational about.
Speaker A
Yeah. Yeah, that's a Yeah, I would say so. Cuz it because it was weird cuz like even in the moment like I knew it I knew it was a wrong choice in the moment but I still it still felt like I had to do
Speaker A
it. There was something very compelling about it. Yes. Yes. Do you know what was compelling about that in those specific cases? I think it's because I thought about that a little bit. Um because it's like I think it's
Speaker A
like a step above getting being able to find affirmation from um a hookup or something right?
Speaker A
I go sleep with a beautiful woman. I am therefore I am like they find me attractive enough to be, you know, to be worth sleeping with and stuff like that to conquest. It's it makes you feel good. I think I think
Speaker A
that's true for everybody. Um, and then but if they're with a partner too, that means that not only was I worth sleeping with, that means I'm better than their partner and I'm worth cheating on their partner with.
Speaker A
So you need some of those things for yourself. There's something you need from that experience.
Speaker A
Yes. Yes. So when you were growing up, it was very important for you to protect yourself.
Speaker A
Um, and that meant not needing anything from other people. But then you ended up feeling that you do need something from other people.
Speaker A
Isn't that the terrible aspect of this? Well, it's a curious aspect of this. How do you what do you make out of this?
Speaker A
The only way I'm able to I think the only way I was able to nowadays it's more complicated but back then at least the only way I was able to kind of like rationalize it is that I wasn't it felt
Speaker A
better to be using them rather than to be uh dependent on them. So if you're using them it sort of protects you.
Speaker A
Yeah. Cuz it's like if I'm exploiting them that's they don't really have much of a say do they?
Speaker A
So you're protected. If you can't trust anybody, then you may as well just exploit them.
Speaker A
I mean, like, it's easy to hurt people when you don't think anybody could possibly care about you.
Speaker A
So then what does it mean in terms of your relationship with your parents and not wanting to be like them?
Speaker A
How do you mean? Well, you said that you wanted to be not reliant on them and different from them maybe in some way.
Speaker A
Mhm. Last thing I ever want to be like is like my parents. Yeah. But in some ways, you also started exploiting people on different occasions.
Speaker A
Yeah, true. I mean, I feel like I probably honestly, if I'm being honest, I feel like I am more exploitive than my parents. Um, what's that like to see that parallel?
Speaker A
It's not something I enjoy, but it's not the it's not the um it's not the worst thing about my parents in my opinion to uh be worse than them at. There's some other things I if I felt like I was
Speaker A
worse than them, then it would be a lot more intolerable. So, there is a whole list and there's a hierarchy of things you could decide you don't want to be like this, but maybe it's okay to be like that.
Speaker A
Yes. Okay. because you present it like it's really under your control. And is that is that really under your control? Your decision to be like them in some ways or not to be like them in other ways?
Speaker A
It always felt like it was. It was okay. I mean, it's like I always had this thing like growing up is that like people would say they didn't like things about themselves. I would think why don't you just change it?
Speaker A
Mhm. I never really understood how people couldn't just, you know, be somebody else. So, you had to work a lot to become different from your parents and decide how you want to be and who you want to be.
Speaker A
Oh gosh. Yes. I mean, it's been I've been working on that since I've been like 13 at least. And I guess I never really thought about it in terms of like distinguishing myself from my parents because I just I don't know. I
Speaker A
just felt disgusted with myself when I was 13. Um, and I decided I was going to be like, you know, I was going to start like being less emotional, being less pathetic, being less um, like awkward.
Speaker A
Um, I would start working out and cut my hair. Uh, just change myself to be something that's like, you know, uh, desirable.
Speaker A
Mhm. And I guess now looking back on it, it's like a lot of those things that I strive to be like is a direct junk position to my parents, I suppose.
Speaker A
never thought about it like that. One of my one of my traits I take the most pride in is like being charming and charismatic and appealing in that way.
Speaker A
And my dad is one of the most awkward people you could ever meet in your life.
Speaker A
Um I pride myself on independence and um callousness and my mother is one of a very emotional woman I would say. And uh I just never really thought my parents like had any sort of impact on that development, I guess, in
Speaker A
terms of like how I decided to obviously I'm like this cuz of my parents, but how I decided to like reshape myself, so to speak?
Speaker A
What's occurring to you about this? I mean, what's what are you realizing about this? that's that I stereotypically and kind of pathetically have more of a um complex what my parents and I thought I did.
Speaker A
What's that like to think like this? I hate that they were able to affect me uh even then.
Speaker A
I can imagine because you struggled so much to become as different and as independent from them as you could and this thought may be quite embarrassing.
Speaker A
Yeah. And instead became a mirror of them I suppose. But I'm also hearing you using a very particular language about yourself. And are you noticing how um critical you are of yourself?
Speaker A
I I wasn't noticing in that moment, but I know I have that tendency. Yeah.
Speaker A
Well, I mean sometime I mean sometimes you have to be critical with yourself though. You have to kind of uh uh you have to you have to know when to I don't want to say punish yourself but like discipline yourself.
Speaker A
So it feels very justified and uh to talk like this about yourself. Oh gosh. Yes.
Speaker A
Yeah. How did it become that way? How did you learn to talk to yourself in such a critical way? Well, because I was always I mean for a long time it was like I was you know I was pathetic. I was like you
Speaker A
know I was like very I was awkward and emotional and disgusting and so like it kind of became second nature to start berating myself for those flaws so I could change change myself to start like being a person that like was worth
Speaker A
something. So being critical of yourself is a way to change yourself. Yes. That's the motivation for change.
Speaker A
When you said that you're disgusting, what do you mean by that? I was like I was just like a greasy [ __ ] kid and I was fat and um just dirty. I don't know. Like and some of I don't know. Maybe some of that
Speaker A
is just like me like um fabricating memories and stuff. I just I just look back on it and I just disgusting is the only word that can come to mind. Well, that's how you feel about that image of yourself.
Speaker A
Yeah, that sounds like a very strong word, but I also hear that that's how you felt about your parents. There was something disgusting about them and um needing to connect with them felt disgusting.
Speaker A
My god. Yeah. Yeah. There's a I don't think there's a more apt word for it at least.
Speaker A
But it also must be a very powerful experience. You feel disgusting and you feel that they're disgusting.
Speaker A
Well, I feel I was disgusting. Um, yeah, I guess so. I am my father's son, I suppose.
Speaker A
I don't know what you mean by that. Um, I was similar to him, I guess, unfortunately.
Speaker A
And that's what uh In what ways were you were you similar to him? I guess I I guess just I was also disgusting.
Speaker A
Um, so your father was disgusting and and pathetic. Empathetic. And you felt that you're very much alike.
Speaker A
I guess at that point I was. Yeah. Can you say in what ways? Man, it's just like both we were both just so socially inept and to a degree of just like ridiculousness.
Speaker A
Um I did love to uh like he's a librarian. I had an affinity for books and I still do.
Speaker A
Mhm. Um he I was I was so [ __ ] desperate for his approval. Oh my god, I don't like thinking about that.
Speaker A
It's weird to think about how like much I uh valued that bastard's opinion. It's hard for you to see that you need something from people, but it's also maybe hard for you to see that you needed something from your father since
Speaker A
you felt that he was disgusting. What came first, needing his approval or feeling that he was disgusting?
Speaker A
Probably the former. the I mean like looking at it rationally I imagine that viewing as disgusting was a uh defense around not getting my needs met by him.
Speaker A
So he rejected you. Yeah. He thought I was a monster ever since like cuz I ended up telling him that like you know I didn't like feel anything when people died and [ __ ] and he called me like a sociopath and I
Speaker A
would end up like murdering people and [ __ ] It sounds very upsetting that your father thought that you were a monster.
Speaker A
Yeah. Well, I mean, when you're like someone as pathetic as him, it's like I think any that he sees monsters everywhere probably.
Speaker A
It's like he was I mean, it's funny. He he was callous towards me and my sister, but like he was emotional about [ __ ] everything else.
Speaker A
He still is. How do you feel about this? That he thought that you were a monster?
Speaker A
I feel like I didn't let him down. I mean, he I mean, it's just there's not much to feel about it. It's just like, you know, it's something that happened.
Speaker A
So, maybe it's hard to feel or maybe you don't want to feel very much about this right now.
Speaker A
Probably. It's maybe too upsetting because feeling something would mean that it's that you need something from him or that he matters and he doesn't.
Speaker A
But back then he did matter to you. Yeah. Back then, back when I didn't know any better.
Speaker A
So, it's almost like you decided at some point to do things differently and to change yourself and become a different person. And you had to use a lot of self-criticism to motivate yourself to become that different person.
Speaker A
Yes. So today you could be one way but back then you were different way.
Speaker A
Yes. But also I hear that back then there was a lot of um disappointment in those relationships. You did not feel u that you're getting the approval from your father that you needed and he judged you. And uh
Speaker A
was there anybody that cared about you when you were growing up? I'm not sure there's anybody even cares about me now.
Speaker A
The idea of uh yeah, I don't know. I can't think of anybody. That's really lonely, I suppose.
Speaker A
Yeah. Yeah. Uh yeah basically you looked sad for a second when you maybe just pensive rather than sad.
Speaker A
It's a strong word. Yeah. What was on your mind in that moment? Now just thinking about like the other things that like happened like back then and stuff like that just and like especially when it had to do with like my sister and the
Speaker A
stuff. Do you want to share? I mean, it's just I was just like thinking of it because like you you said the judging part and I just like kind of went through a few things in my head like about like how my
Speaker A
uh me and my uh mother were like I mean uh just like the yeah the the incessant using of humiliation as a form of discipline and like being able to and like the uh and like be having our me and my
Speaker A
sister's behavior graded like in public and stuff like that and like you know then like physical violence came to mind and stuff. Um you mean physical violence within the family?
Speaker A
Yeah. Yeah. It was scary. It doesn't really feel like it was scary nowadays. Every time I say something about your emotions, you kind of laugh it off.
Speaker A
Maybe that feels like too much that I mention feelings and perhaps it doesn't. It feels too vulnerable to think about them. And if you're growing up in a family where violence and humiliation are the major currency, I think it's hard to talk about feelings.
Speaker A
I mean, feelings are, you know, feelings are a way to be exploited. So, it's not safe.
Speaker A
It's not safe. It feels like if somebody It's funny. I assume every anytime somebody's vulnerable with me, I assume that they're trying to uh guilt trip me into something or to uh manipulate me in some way.
Speaker A
So, it must be tricky talking about those experiences right now. There's a lot of uh gymnastics that go around trying to avoid anything sensitive.
Speaker A
Can you say more? What makes you want to avoid them right now or what are those gymnastics mean?
Speaker A
I don't know. It's just uh humiliating to talk about. Yeah. Like the idea that like you know people can see anybody can see me like uh as emotional and subservient to that is kind of uh intolerable.
Speaker A
So showing something emotional would be um would go against that image that you have about yourself and you wouldn't want to make it public.
Speaker A
Yeah. Right. I mean like Yeah. I mean who would want to be seen like that?
Speaker A
There is something very scary for you about this. What's scary about it? I don't know if fear is the right thing, but I don't know. It's just not um I guess I don't see the point in it.
Speaker A
It may seem pointless if you like the only thing that's that comes to mind about other people that they want to exploit you and take advantage of you.
Speaker A
But if they want maybe to comfort you and understand you, it may be different experience.
Speaker A
I've had I've had moments where I have been very emotional and it's people find my when I get emotional to be overwhelming and so I try very hard not to do that.
Speaker A
And you know people always say that like they want to know the real you and that like oh like I love you no matter what and they're [ __ ] liars.
Speaker A
Why is that? because they're just as disgusted with me as I would be with them, if not more so.
Speaker A
No, that's not right. They get afraid of me. So, you have to put a lot of effort into keeping your emotions under control cuz otherwise it's a vicious cycle. You don't want people to feel disgusted with you. And they ended up feeling disgusted
Speaker A
with you. Yep. Every time. So, it's better not to um allow put myself in a position where like I'm going to be rejected again.
Speaker A
So, you've keep things under control, you keep things in check, you stay safe, you stay away from emotions that really um it's like a it's like a minefield.
Speaker A
Yeah, I suppose. But it's like I don't know when you have the mind fuel if you have all the where all the minds are memorized, it doesn't it becomes pretty second nature to be able to navigate it.
Speaker A
So it's under control. Yeah. On the most part at least. Yeah. So you're sharing a lot about yourself today and you're sharing very painful experiences about um what was it like growing up and also how much work you
Speaker A
put into becoming a different person. M and also what went into that it also sounds like a lot of that is based on running away from feeling vulnerable and not wanting to be humiliated or disgusted with yourself or others but
Speaker A
ultimately you feel like even today there is a possibility of being humiliated. I mean there's always a possibility of that.
Speaker A
Yeah. So, you have to be, you know, it is a um it's 247 job to make sure that you that doesn't happen.
Speaker A
It sounds like you're really working very very hard to protect yourself from that type of um and I've been damn good at it.
Speaker A
That's why you call them gymnastics. So, how do you protect yourself from what? from being humiliated, from getting emotional, from being vulnerable. I mean, a lot of it has to do with um you know, impression management. I can
Speaker A
present myself in a way that I find acceptable. Mhm. And um so that prevents the possibility of being humiliated. The vulnerability I I've learned what I can say in order to um things are obsessively vulnerable, but I am emotionally detached from. so
Speaker A
that if people need to feel close to me for whatever reason, I can kind of uh offer something like that.
Speaker A
Yeah. In order to like meet their expectations, um it's not hard to kind of uh be able to manage things like that. Like people are kind of um I don't want to use the word predictable because that seems
Speaker A
demeaning, but yeah, effectively that that is what it feels like. I know what to say to get um to present myself in a certain way and um I know what they expect and everyone's happy.
Speaker A
It's like a vending machine. Oh gosh. Yes. Uh yeah. Like I I always described it as like a uh as a math equation growing up. It's like I'm not exactly sure what the hell goes on in it, but like I know what exactly
Speaker A
to type in and when I'm going to get out. then it feels like everybody else just goes up and just hits random keys.
Speaker A
So, it's about how do you get out of people what you want to get out of them.
Speaker A
Yeah. More or less. Yeah. Or just uh and not and it doesn't necessarily have to be all exploitative. Yeah. Especially nowadays. It's just But I mean like unless I don't know if it would count as exploitative to manipulate people's
Speaker A
opinion of you and like how they view you, but yeah, just to get the reactions that I desire and stuff like that. So what do you want to get from people?
Speaker A
What are those things that are important for you? I mean opinion may be one of them. What else?
Speaker A
What else is important? Um being like wellconed. Mhm. Being uh yeah like um entertainment.
Speaker A
Uh they're making them admire me and uh have a high opinion of me or just to like me. Uh those are the main things honestly.
Speaker A
So, you do need something from other people. Well, we are social creatures. There's going to be a degree of like Yeah.
Speaker A
needing people, needing to be around people. It's mostly about what other people can give you and what you can get out of people. I don't necessarily know if there's something about relating to other people that doesn't feel like this
Speaker A
hard work that you're describing. Well, how does how does one uh how does one like me relate to people?
Speaker A
That's interesting what you just said. What do you mean? I'm like barely a person.
Speaker A
I'm certainly not a real one. You're not a real person. Doesn't feel like it most of the time.
Speaker A
What's not real about you? Um like just who I am as a person isn't real. It's, you know, a facade. Um, it's just whatever. It's what I have like decided that I'm going to be and then I can modify that to fit certain people
Speaker A
better if I desire it and stuff like that. Um. Mhm. The only person I've ever like related to it um have been people with sim with similar afflictions and they So in those cases you are different.
Speaker A
What's different about you then? Well, in those cases like they get it. See it it earnestly it feels like they just see the world the right way like the way that like the way that I know that it is
Speaker A
but it feels like everybody else has been lying about my entire life. So they really understand your experiences. So those individuals really really get it but other people you kind of have to present in a certain way and
Speaker A
accommodate how they are. I mean imagine if I had a friend that I had met like let's say we knew each other like a month or so and I told him half of what I've explained to you during this time.
Speaker A
Yeah. Do you think he'd react? Do you think a person would react positively in any way?
Speaker A
It's a very good question. What do you imagine? I don't think so. Have you ever tried?
Speaker A
Yeah. And the best case scenario is that they just kind of ignore it. Worst case scenario is they start to view everything you do through that lens. Or they and they feel like you're always being manipulative and exploitative even when you're not.
Speaker A
or they feel weird about the fact that I can't connect to them the same way that they want to connect to me or feel like they are connected to me or or they just feel weird about like the fact that I or that you know I don't
Speaker A
have a [ __ ] personality. People don't like that and so like I'm not really left with many options other than to kind of keep up like the uh just keep up the performance. I there's a lot of PR
Speaker A
more or less. Yeah. But do you feel lonely constantly? What's that like? What is loneliness like? Yeah.
Speaker A
Not pleasant. Uh but it's something that like I came to kind of I mean I've always felt lonely.
Speaker A
Mhm. Um, I like as long as I remember it's funny because I remember like when I was uh in high school like I I told like a friend of mine back then who at the time was a rather like relatively speaking a close
Speaker A
friend and like I told him that like I was I don't remember how it came out but I said that I was like constantly lonely. I probably made like a joke about it and he was like well wait what
Speaker A
do you mean? And at first I was kind of confused cuz I was like I was like oh wait not everybody feels like that.
Speaker A
Noted. Um, and then I explain and then he was like, "You have more friends than anybody I know. How are you lonely?" And I'm like, "I am always lonely. I don't know what else to say." Um, it's just kind of a fact of life and
Speaker A
something that I have largely accepted because I don't think that's ever going to completely go away. Mhm. You said that it's uncomfortable and but I also wonder if it there is a part of you that feels safer when it's lonely because
Speaker A
that's when you have control and you don't have to worry about being exploited or hurt.
Speaker A
Never thought about that aspect of it. I guess it probably is sort of subconscious act. Um I don't know this. I'm asking because it just occurred to me that it could be.
Speaker A
So, I don't know if I mean I Go ahead. I never uh I guess I never really considered that. I guess I never considered what it would be like to not be lonely.
Speaker A
I see. Cuz I mean I know cuz I know like I when I feel too vulnerable with people, I tend to lash out unfortunately. Um like then it's never like on it's never like oh I was vulnerable. I want to hurt you
Speaker A
now. No, it's just like I get I know I get disregulated, uncomfortable. Um but I guess yeah, I don't know.
Speaker A
That's something I have to think about more because I had never thought about it from that perspective.
Speaker A
Interesting. So, it's a constant uphill battle. You're trying to become somebody different. You try to work on yourself.
Speaker A
You try to present something that is more adaptable and adapt to a person in front of you. But and deep inside you feel very different like a monster typically. Yeah.
Speaker A
And sometimes it also has this kind of a sense of power and control and things feeling special, but also many times it makes you feel very lonely and different.
Speaker A
Yes. Very much so. So, how does your crusade and mission that we started to talk about first uh fit into this picture?
Speaker A
I guess to some in some weird way I actually do want to be understood.
Speaker A
You do. What's important for you about that? I guess I don't want to be lonely anymore or whatever.
Speaker A
That's a big deal. Yeah. How is that working? I've met some people who made me feel less lonely, but it's I don't know how uh I don't know how far I'm going to get with that.
Speaker A
I probably felt the least alone off of people I met off the internet than I have anybody in ever met in my personal life, which is very unfortunate and also feels weird and pathetic, but uh it's just not many um it is unfortunate,
Speaker A
but it sounds like maybe there's a part of you that wants to have that in your real life, not just of the internet.
Speaker A
Yeah, I would love to. Yeah, I would. It just feels so um out of reach.
Speaker A
It's hard to feel hopeful about it. Yeah. Yeah. I fear that's like the that people hundreds or thousands of miles away is going to be the closest I ever get to uh ever having somebody that will like, you
Speaker A
know, truly understand me and stuff. Mhm. they will understand you from a distance. Yeah. Which sucks. And I always think like, you know, what if after being exposed to me for a long enough period of time, if like let's say that they were in real
Speaker A
life, if they got exposed to me for a long enough period of time, would they end up hating me? Will they end up being sick of me?
Speaker A
Those are big fears to have. Yeah. But they're substantiated. I also think that when you have that distance, you have more control over what people can see and what they know about you and they get closer to you.
Speaker A
Maybe it feels less in control. Yes. I can't. That's the issue with like most my relationships is that the more time that they spend with me, the more chances there are for them for me to mess up and for
Speaker A
them to see that like I'm not in control, that I'm not as confident as I seem, that I'm actually emotionally disregulated, that I'm actually horribly insecure, that I'm actually um that I'm actually like not as kind as I
Speaker A
want myself to seem. M a lot of qualities that you don't like about yourself and that you think that will get you rejected that will get me rejected.
Speaker A
You have a lot of certainty about that. But it also sounds very black and white like the external picture could be kind of good enough and acceptable and impressive.
Speaker A
However, the internal picture is getting you rejected, but it's very black and white. It's not like you could be all of those qualities together. It's kind of really either or more or less.
Speaker A
Well, then it's really scary if it's either or because it feels like when people really see what's underneath all the layers, then um then you get rejected.
Speaker A
Yeah. Because I mean and that's I mean because the more of that that they see, the more that they uh get sick of me.
Speaker A
You really have a lot of certainty about how how other people think. I mean, you see patterns after a while.
Speaker A
But what makes it certain? That I don't have any uh I don't have much conflicting evidence with it cuz you feel like you know about literally everybody. That's that's a big statement. You know, people aren't very different from each
Speaker A
other. I used to maintain like a lot of friendships for like mainly for self-esteem regulation like let's be real.
Speaker A
Um I mean there were some that I did value right in my own way okay but largely self-esteem regulation um every [ __ ] one of them eventually um got sick of my [ __ ] Eventually I spent too much time around
Speaker A
each one of them. And that's what always keeps happening is that the more time somebody spends around me, eventually they'll see that I'm incredibly unstable, um, incredibly, I guess, you know, probably um, dependent in a certain way.
Speaker A
Mhm. They realize that, um, I'm not that I'm that I'm weak and can't be relied on.
Speaker A
And so then there's no so then at that point it's like you know why would when they don't when people don't think that they need you then they have a tendency to leave.
Speaker A
So you feel like you're not reliable. I'm not I'm very aware of it. Yeah.
Speaker A
Maybe at a distance I am but I'm not a very sturdy um I'm not a very sturdy rock for somebody to lean on. But also maybe it's hard for you to rely on yourself from that perspective.
Speaker A
It is there's a lot of times I don't know that like if I'm going to snap snap or not.
Speaker A
Yeah. I wonder about this difficulty to trust yourself because uh when you have that experience of things being very black and white internally. Um it's hard to be in control over this because it's either this or that and you can go from
Speaker A
one to another without kind of something in between. Yeah. nothing. There's nothing in the gray zone. And but it's also like other people see you in a in a very black and white way. That's also what stands out
Speaker A
to me. It feels like it at the very least. Yes. And you have no control over that. The only control you have is to leave.
Speaker A
I like to think I have more control. I have control over it. But I would hope you have more control than that. I'm just reflecting the way it appears to me. So yeah. Yeah. That's think distance is the
Speaker A
only way to uh maintain the uh image of being strong and being likable. And things get a lot more dicey if somebody's around.
Speaker A
It feels like it's like there's the fake me and then the real terrible me.
Speaker A
Yeah. And I guess obstensively those both are real parts of me that you know people can have.
Speaker A
Yeah. Opinions like that about but I don't know that's weird. It's weird to think about this, but maybe this is something to think about.
Speaker A
This realization that it's not either fake or real, but there this is all part of you.
Speaker A
Yes. Yes. And it's true. Yeah. And that there is a part of you that wants to stay kind of safe and soul. There's a part of you that wants to be connected. And how incredibly scary it is to make yourself vulnerable.
Speaker A
It's true. Yeah, it is something to reflect on. Huh. Oh well. I do think we have to stop for today, but thank you so much for sharing so much about yourself today.
Speaker A
I appreciate you like coming in and doing this. This was interesting. Thank you so much.
Speaker A
Give me some things to think about. I'm glad to hear that. I am.
Topics:Narcissistic Personality DisorderNPD diagnosismental healthpersonality disordersemotional regulationidentitytherapypsychologyBorderlinerNotesDr. Igor Weinberg
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