Former CEO of Ben & Jerry's, Jostein Solheim (part 1)

Welcome. My name is Nick Craig. This is the Leading from Purpose podcast. Today, my special guest is someone who I've known for, at this point, probably almost 10 years. He lost, I'd sold on when I met Osteen. He was CEO of Ben & Jerry's, and he stayed there for, I was it probably eight plus years. These days, he is now running Unilever's four billion-dollar food and refreshment business in the United States, which is basically everything in the food store they provide, which is a wide range of products. So he's in the middle of this incredible challenge of how do we keep the grocery stores full. What we're gonna talk about today are two things. First of all, we're going to talk with you, Austin, around his purpose and how it has impacted him over time. But the second part is we're gonna really talk about the shift that he's experienced on what did he need to do, how does he need to lead, how it needs to be versus do as a leader in the coronavirus challenge we currently are experiencing. What is that big shift? And he's got some wonderful insights that I'm looking forward to us talking about. Alstyne, thanks for being here.

was CEO of Ben & Jerry's and he stayed there for I was it probably eight plus years these days he is now running Unilever's for billion-dollar food and refreshment business in the United States which is basically everything in

Thank you, Nick. Good to see you again, virtually.

to talk with you Austin around his purpose and how it has impacted him over time but the second part is we're gonna really talk about the shift that he's experienced on what did he need to do how does he need to leave how it needs

Exactly. And so you're saying, why don't you tell us what your purpose is and why that's your purpose, and let's talk about a little bit about the journey you've been on around purpose last ten years.

You Nick good to see you again virtually exactly and so you're saying why don't you tell us what your purpose is and why why that's your purpose and let's talk about a little bit about the the journey you've been on around purpose last ten

Great. Yeah, no, so my purpose is quite apt for this moment, and I think we've retraced it in a few different ways, and it's gotten sharper over the years. But it's sort of three parts of my purpose. First, it is about helping people thrive. I'm a big team believer. I believe in people driving the outcomes, helping people thrive through ambiguity and paradoxes. Welcome to my world. This is real. House enough. You probably have at least enough. Now there's enough. And then the third part is, you know, what really motivates me, which is when it really matters for the world. So all three were important. You know, helping people thrive is delivering through others. Ambiguity and paradoxes was a lot of the conversations we went through. I thought I was normal and that my perception of risk and danger was normal, and then I discovered that I was a little bit off the spectrum on that, and I'm actually a lot more comfortable than most people apparently are.

it is about helping people thrive I'm a big team believer I believe in people driving the outcomes helping people thrive through ambiguity and paradoxes welcome to my world this is real house enough you probably have at least enough

You are?

and paradoxes was a lot of the conversations we went through I thought I was normal and that my perception of risk and danger was normal and then I discovered that I was a little bit off the spectrum on that and I'm actually a

Yes. But I'm also motivated by things that matter, things that have real impact, things that impact society. And when it doesn't, I can get demotivated and, you know, slightly destructive. So that's how my purpose works.

that's a that's how that my purpose works okay so when I first met you you were trying to make a decision as to whether you're going to stay at Ben & Jerry's or take some type of a promotion

Okay, so when I first met you, you were trying to make a decision as to whether you're going to stay at Ben & Jerry's or take some type of a promotion or something. So would you be willing to share with us sort of what the impact of purpose has had on you, especially in those early days and when we started working together?

when purpose is in the room it's right there with you and you can't ignore it and you know I came here and from sort of that family and and personal situation it could have been good to potentially also move on but you know my

Yeah, it's, I mean, I think you said it to me once, you know, when purpose is in the room, it's right there with you, and you can't ignore it. And, you know, I came here from sort of that family and personal situation. It could have been good to potentially also move on, but, you know, my wife was super committed to Ben & Jerry's, and actually the reason I came here in the first place, 'cause she said, that's not a job that is you. And it's true. After two years, we got to that milestone where, you know, we have to decide if you stay or do we go. And it had become very clear to me that this was not a job; it was a calling. And the impact that I could have on society through that role and living in this intersection between business, a global business, and social and economic justice just provided so many paradoxes and so much energy. And then, of course, being a business that is so people first, it really was impossible to find another job at that time that could match that in any formal way. So we decided we'll stay, and we ended up staying for eight years.

decide of you stay do we go and it had become very clear to me that this was not a job it was a calling and the impact that I could have on society through that role and living in this

Wow. And so what am I right away? My favorite stories you've told me, which I loved, these guys do here as well. So when you've decided to stay, which I think surprises a lot of people because that promotion was probably what most people expected anybody to take, and he decided not to take it. There was a test, and I think Steve, your head of marketing, came in with a test of some idea he had. And so would you share with us that journey because I think the interesting thing is that everybody sees, I think sometimes people see purpose as this poly-antic thing, which is you get it and everything turns out and it surfaces. It looks like that's what happened, but my experience of it, and I think what you've experienced, is there are places where you really get there, you really get tested.

job at that time that could match that in any formal way so we decided we'll stay and we ended up staying for four eight eight years Wow and so what am i right away my favorite stories you've told me which I loved

Yes.

think Steve your head of marketing or came in with a test of some idea he had and so would you share us that journey because I think the interesting thing is that everybody sees I think sometimes people see purpose as this poly antic

Hmm. Yeah, I know. I mean, you know, this Ben & Jerry's is still in Vermont. The office is a couple of miles from where the original scoop shop was. It's a closed, small community in a very tight community. So when you come as an outsider, if you make change to turn around, you know, it takes a while before you're accepted and seen as being fully committed. One of the unlocks that I had for getting this organization to thrive and to excel was to remove this idea that the owner unity would stop them from pursuing their ambitions. So you leave her but Ben and Jerry's at some point.

yes hmm yeah I know I mean you know this Ben & Jerry's is still in Vermont the office is couple of miles from where the original scoot shop was it's a closed is a small community in a very

Yeah, because I don't know if everybody knows that. So you never, he is like this big billion-dollar thing like P&G. They fight over everything. So Ben and Jerry's is this little guy who basically told a man to screw it, reign. And then all of a sudden, the man buys it. And it's a fascinating, this was one of the acquisition deals that had the most documentation in the history of Unilever because it was a very complex deal because it became in some ways a forerunner to the B Corp movement.

and to excel was to remove this idea that the owner unity would stop them from pursuing their ambitions so you leave her but Ben and Jerry's at some point yeah because I don't know if everybody knows that so you never he is

Okay.

fascinating this was one of the acquisition deals that a had the most documentation in the history of Unilever because it was a very complex deal because it became in some ways a forerunner to the beat court moon okay

So to instill and keep the authenticity of Ben and Jerry's and its rebellious nature, Unilever agreed to have an independent board of directors that self-selects, and it has primary responsibility for the social mission and the integrity of the brand. And this board can stop any action by the CEO that they deem goes against. Well, so Unilever really sees that a lot of control over the core of Ben and Jerry's to a board. We sort of then became this multi-stakeholder model that we now know as benefit corporations in the B Corp movement. So Unilever acquired Ben & Jerry's in 2000, and I came there pretty much ten years after that. Was their can reinvigorate that way the original intent of the agreement with the brief of re-radicalizing Ben and Jerry's. So that was the purpose. Now it makes complete sense, right? Now it makes sense. At the time, it was like, okay, are you sure you really want this? But, you know, if you do, we can do it. But it wasn't totally clear why.

board can stop any action by the CEO that they deem goes against well so Unilever really see that a lot of control over the core of Ben and Jerry's two aboard we sort of then became his multi-stakeholder model that we now know

I love that. Coming back to your question, the point was to get this organization to thrive. They needed to know that I had their back and nobody was gonna stop them from taking the actions that were their damages because there's an easy story to tell yourself that, oh, I have this really good idea, but somebody outside somewhere will stop me from doing it, so I'm not gonna pursue it. So I was convinced, and I was right, that there were a lot of really great ideas hiding in the team.

of re radicalizing Ben and Jerry's so that was the purpose now it makes complete sense right now it makes sense at the time it was like okay are you sure you really want this but you know if you do we can do it but it wasn't

Yeah, and I just had Camden because I didn't think anybody remembered. So in the sun that summer was the summer of Occupy Wall Street, and then injuries was the only corporation that supported Occupy Wall Street, the anti-corporate movement against the one-percenters. It was an amazing summer for me early on in my leadership role there, discovering this crazy paradox of being a business supporting an anti-business movement. All that we came out of it, you know, that period into the fall and sort of the heat of the Occupy Wall Street movement sort of started to fade a bit, and we were coming into deciding on where we gonna know on justice seasonals. And this is when these little being for the season of Christmas, Christmas holiday period, holiday period put.

damages because there's an easy story to tell yourself that oh I have this really good idea but somebody outside somewhere will stop me from doing it so I'm not gonna pursue it so I was convinced and I was right that there was a lot of really

great ideas hiding in the team yeah and I just had Camden because I didn't think anybody remember so in the Sun that summer was the summer of Occupy Wall Street and then injuries was the only corporation that supported Occupy

Wall Street the anti corporate movement against the one-percenters it was an amazing summer for me early on in my my leadership role there discovering this crazy paradox of being a business supporting an anti-business movement that all that we came out of it

you know that that period into the fall and sort of the heat of the Occupy Wall Street movement sort of started to fade a bit and we were coming into deciding on where we gonna know on justice seasonals

and this is when these little being for the season of Christmas Christmas holiday period holiday period put in a special edition so in comes my CMO has been at the company for 30 years that means chief marketing officer right

chief marketing officer and two of his learned teammates and they proceeded to pitch a new flavor called Schweddy Balls now at this stage I have lived in America for four years right so I not used to people talking about sweaty

balls is that way yeah and I did not have the cultural context on this idea well I don't think anybody has the cultural context for those two words so you can imagine now it you know this is a food product there is just nothing

appealing about those two words at first and you go like okay remember you our mission is that there's nowhere to stop a good idea so they then proceeded to act out the skit from Saturday Night Live with Alec Baldwin and in the NPR

presenters and Alec Baldwin is mister shreddy who's a baker etc they got a YouTube video up and they showed it to me and they said why this was really really funny it was a skit that was done around the holidays

it's a Christmas holiday thing right so yes so everybody was dressed up okay so he so Alec Baldwin in this skin and this has become a bit of a Saturday night classic so we played and we played and

it's the whole NPR interview where you you know yo yo you're on the radio he is a baker he makes these chocolate balls and he's got this big tray of glistening chocolate balls and his whole conversation is around these mister

shreddies balls and it is very funny obviously a humor is really hard to judge it's really really hard to judge specially when it's sitting in a frozen section in the grocery store but these guys were so convinced that this would

be just the right sign of bad taste and it would make people reengagement Ben and Jerry's at a level house you know one president so we went ahead and some people at Union even including their then person who is in my

job now thought it was a really bad idea but uh I had new authority and I used my authority to launch the product all of the major retailers in America did listed the birthday customer team's focus was hilariously funny so we

launched it and you can imagine every news station in America know this straight up and down and today Ben and Jerry's unveiled a new flavor called shreddy balls and then you see like a little twit she smiled as it trying to

say told her at that time and then was Alec Baldwin ever do what he I think was very keen to mature its this flavor perfectly so this thing that made it huge of course a couple of other retailers decided to divest it it

created a search for this product and me for this product people also took you know myriads of pictures of other offensive products at Walmart and sent it to the leadership team at warmer so it was a fascinating explosion of

attention to this product and our sales went up by six seven percent total total company because people searching for a sec we had waiting lists so your sales across all of your products went up because of this weapon it just draws so

much attention but then the brilliance of the whole execution once we then didn't say anything we didn't do anything because it's a funny joke but it's only funny once and you can't let it go for too long and we just pulled

quietly back and and this legend was born but I think that's a perfect example of you stepping in to your purpose and living it where it would have been easy to just say no and so my sense is there's been multiple

opportunities for you to say no over the years and then you said yes I know that you guys have been involved in social movements whether it's black lives matter or same-sex marriage or a number of things you guys have been involved in

so I was kind of surprised when I got working with you guys how much that's a key part of your ethos and that's a lot stepping in this well by being you know supporting black lives matter from Vermont which is a state that's 96

percent white and stepping into that that was probably the hardest journey of a two year learning journey for how we could play a role in that movement there was also probably one of the things they created the biggest backlash against the

company you know from just people that were very engaged and angry so it was I was a fascinating when I was a two-year journey we also stepped into the climate justice movement and we campaign you know for a binding climate agreement in

Paris across the world and again people saw that as a paradox but you're scream company you use Miller you have cows your carbon footprint and again not deter us from being the official ice cream of the United Nations

save us world and all but make a Chris cream inside the blue zone which is where the actual negotiation was taking place and that and reminding politicians around the world that our fans were holding them accountable for coming up

with a deal to save the world so these are all wonderful examples of you stepping into the leading from your purpose in this context of leading what I want to do now let's take a moment and shift [Music]