Can Common Food Goals Find Common Ground? GMO Answers and Ben & Jerry's SXSW Panel

Panel discussion on food transparency, GMO labeling, and sustainable agriculture featuring experts from GMO Answers and Ben & Jerry's at SXSW.

Ask about this video. Answers come from its transcript only — with the timestamp, so you can check them.

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Key Takeaways

Food transparency is increasingly demanded by consumers and is essential for trust.
Common goals exist across different farming and food production sectors despite differing views on GMOs.
Sustainable agricultural practices can be enhanced by responsible use of biotechnology.
Clear and honest communication about food sourcing and production methods benefits all stakeholders.
Voluntary GMO labeling and innovative transparency tools have potential but face challenges in adoption and consumer engagement.

What the video covers

The panel discusses the importance of food transparency and consumer interest in food sourcing, especially in places like Austin.
Kathy Enright and Chris Miller represent different perspectives but share common goals around sustainable and transparent food production.
Transparency is defined as open, honest communication about food production methods, including genetically modified organisms (GMOs).
The discussion highlights the complexity of GMO labeling laws and consumer perceptions around genetically engineered ingredients.
Ben & Jerry's emphasizes pride in sourcing ingredients from small family farms and fair trade certified suppliers.
The panel explores how sustainable farming practices, including no-till agriculture enabled by GMO seeds, benefit the environment and farmers.
There is debate about the effectiveness and consumer use of tools like QR codes for food transparency.
Voluntary GMO labeling exists but is not widely adopted by companies using GMO ingredients.
The conversation touches on the organic movement's history and the balance between economies of scale and ecological practices.
The panel stresses the need for ongoing dialogue among farmers, companies, consumers, and policymakers to address food system challenges.

Chapters

What is the main focus of the panel discussion?

The panel focuses on food transparency, the role of GMO labeling, and how different sectors can find common ground to promote sustainable and responsible food production.

How does Ben & Jerry's approach food transparency?

Ben & Jerry's emphasizes pride in sourcing ingredients from small family farms and fair trade certified suppliers, openly communicating about their ingredient origins and social mission.

What are some challenges discussed regarding GMO labeling?

Challenges include the complexity of labeling laws, mixed consumer opinions, low adoption of voluntary labeling by companies, and the effectiveness of tools like QR codes to convey information.

Full Transcript — Download SRT & Markdown

Speaker A

All right, thank you for coming, and I am very glad to be in Austin. Really, is there a better place to have a discussion about food transparency? My husband and I were lucky enough to spend a month here last winter, and to our chagrin, we did not do it this winter because we're on Cape Cod, and this would have been a whole lot more fun. But one of the things that we noticed is that in Austin, people seem to care about where their food comes from. It's the birthplace of Whole Foods. We've got Central Market, but there are also all of these restaurants that are talking about where they source their food, sourcing them carefully. And there are other places where this has started to become part of the culture. Look at the Portlands, both Oregon and Maine, Portsmouth, New Hampshire. We're seeing more and more people care about this.

Speaker A

I have a theory that it's correlated with tattoos, but so we could solve this problem either by running out and getting tattoos or by talking about it, and that's what we're going to do here today. I'm going to introduce Kathy and Chris, but before I do that, I want just to get a little bit of a sense of who's here. How many are Austin locals? Anybody? A few. Do we have any food professionals? Grow it, write about it, cook it? Nice. Any actual farmers? Farmers?

Speaker A

I'm going to have to hold down the fort on the farmer. I farm oysters, and I'm always glad to see people who grow food participating in these discussions. And as we continue to have them, I think it's an important thing to look for. But I think what we're here to talk about is transparency. But we all think about transparency in the context of genetically modified foods, and I just heard that in Texas there's a bill that just got floated yesterday to label genetically modified foods.

Speaker A

And I don't want to oversimplify it. Most people aren't either all for them or all against them, but if we divided people into roughly for them, roughly against them, or undecided, how many of you are roughly for them? How many people are roughly against them? And how many people are undecided? So we actually have some of all, and we're going to come back to that at the end. There are a number of issues I want to get through, and then once we do that, I want to open it up. So if you've got questions, we hopefully have answers, and we certainly want to talk about those things. But first, let me tell you who we're talking to here.

Speaker A

Kathy Enright is a scientist first. She has a PhD in biochemistry, and after school, it was all agriculture all the time. She was with the federal government, worked as an agricultural trade and environment negotiator, and then from there, she worked in the produce industry. She has worked with organic farmers and conventional, and now she is, since 2011, executive director of the Council for Biotechnology Information and executive vice president for food and agriculture at the Biotechnology Industry Organization. She's also served on President Obama's agriculture policy committee in 2008 and again in 2012. Please welcome Kathy Enright.

Speaker A

Chris Miller has a job I think we can all envy. He works for Ben & Jerry's, and not just working for an ice cream maker. He is the social mission activism manager at Ben & Jerry's, and I don't think any other company has that particular title on its roster. He is responsible for development and execution of the company's issue advocacy campaigns, which I think if you follow Ben & Jerry's, you know that those are all rooted in the company's progressive values and tradition.

Speaker A

Before Ben & Jerry's, he led sustainability work at Seventh Generation. You're probably all familiar with the household products company. And in the nonprofit world, he directed Greenpeace USA's national climate campaign and served on the staff of Congressman Bernie Sanders. Please welcome Chris Miller.

Speaker A

Let's leave aside genetically modified food just for a moment, and let's talk about transparency because we have two people here who represent different sides of the food spectrum, but common ground, I think, is going to be the essential first step to a constructive discussion. So the first question, Kathy, I'm going to start with you. What is transparency, and why is it important?

Speaker A

Thanks. Good morning, everybody. Thanks for coming. My thinking is that transparency is more important than ever now. I should say, because while I've worked for, as Tom said, organic industry and the conventional egg industry, and now I work for companies who develop seeds, including GMO seeds, which are used in conventional farming, we are seemingly pitted against one another, right? And we have common objectives. I've never met a farmer, quite frankly, I don't know about a company who's invested in farming that isn't committed to the production of abundant, safe, nutritious food in the most ecologically balanced way possible while providing for economic viability for the farmers.

Speaker A

So no matter where you are, what side of the farming production spectrum you are, that's a common goal. But you wouldn't know it if you looked in the digital space. So I think that it's time for us to have an open, honest conversation, transparency, which means not talking to each other all the time, talking, you know, across the field. One might say that's why we're really excited that Chris is here today because we're going to need every tool in the toolbox to meet our objectives with the challenges we're facing today. We've got a burgeoning world population, and we've got impacts of climate change.

Speaker A

So if we're going to produce that abundant, safe, nutritionally balanced food, if we're going to take care of the environment and still provide for our farmers, we need to be talking with people about how our food is grown so that there is more understanding and knowledge, more participation in the conversation so we can keep those tools in the toolboxes. We can have our policymakers understand better where we're coming from, and I'm really looking forward to the conversation today. So balancing the interests of consumers, the need to feed a large population, and farmers using every responsible tool in the toolbox.

Speaker A

Absolutely. Chris, you know, I think transparency is incredibly important. I think at Ben & Jerry's, we've been really proud of the ingredients that we use to make our products. And I think increasingly, to your point, whether it's Austin or even Vermont or many places, this sort of trend towards transparency, consumers want to know where their food comes from, how it was grown. In many cases, they want to know the farmer that produced it.

Speaker A

And I think it's a fad that's not going away. And so I really do believe companies should be proud of the ingredients they use. We spend a lot of time talking about what we put in a pint. We source our dairy from small family farms about 20 miles north of our corporate headquarters and have done since the beginning of the company. We source fair trade certified sugar, cocoa, bananas. We're really proud to talk about the producers that produce those ingredients. We buy brownies from a bakery in Yonkers that has an open hiring policy called the Gryon Bakery.

Speaker A

So I think companies ought to be really proud to stand up and tell you what they're putting in their stuff, and I think it's a problem for companies or when they are not willing to do that. And so you're operating under the principle that some producers are better than others?

Speaker A

I think sure. I mean, I think whether you're looking at labor practices or you're looking at environmental sustainability, yeah, I mean, some people do it better than others. And so Kathy, to your point that no farmer that you've ever met isn't concerned about ecological practices and produ—

Speaker A

which I think if you follow Ben and& Jerry's you know that those are all rooted in the company's Progressive values and tradition um before Ben and Jerry's he led sustainability work at Seventh Generation you're probably all familiar with the the household products

Speaker A

company um and in the nonprofit world he directed Green Peace USA's National Climate campaign and served on the staff of Congressman Bernie Sanders please welcome Chris [Applause] Miller let's leave aside genetically modified food just for a moment and

Speaker A

let's talk about transparency because we have two people here who represent different sides of the food Spectrum um but Common Ground I think is going to be the essential first step to a constructive discussion so the first question Kathy I'm going to start with

Speaker A

you what is transparency and why is it important thanks to good morning everybody thanks for coming my my thinking is that uh transparency is more important ever now uh more than more than ever now I should say because while I've worked for uh as

Speaker A

tomorrow said organic industry and the conventional egg industry and now I work for companies who develop seeds including GMO seeds which are used uh in conventional farming we are seemingly uh pitted against one another right and we have common objectives I've never met

Speaker A

a farmer quite frankly I don't know about a company who's invested in farming that isn't uh committed to the production of abundant safe nutritious food in the most ecologically balanced way possible while providing for economic viability for the farmers so no matter where you

Speaker A

are what side what's side of the farming production Spectrum you are that's a common goal but you wouldn't know it if you looked in the digital space so I think that uh it's time for us to have an open honest conversation

Speaker A

transparency which means um not talking to each other all the time talking you know across across the field one might say that's why we're really excited that Chris is here today because we're going to need every tool in the toolbox uh to to meet our

Speaker A

objectives uh with the challenges we're facing today we've got a burgeoning world population uh and we've got impacts of climate change so if we're going to produce that abundance safe nutrition uh nutritionally balanced food if we're going to take care of the environment

Speaker A

and still provide for our Farmers we need to be talking with people about how our food is grown so that there is more understanding and knowledge more participation in the conversation so we can get we can keep those tools in the

Speaker A

tool boxes we can have our policy makers understand better where we're coming from and I'm really looking forward to the conversation today so balancing the interests of consumers the need to feed a large population and Farmers using every responsible tool in the toolbox

Speaker A

absolutely Chris you know I think transparency is is incredibly important I think uh you know at Ben and& Jerry's we've we've been uh really proud of the ingredients that we use to make our products we uh you know and I think increasingly to

Speaker A

your point whether it's Austin or even Vermont or you know many places uh this sort of trend towards transparency consumers want to know you know where their food comes from how it was grown in many cases they want to know the

Speaker A

farmer that produced it uh and I think it's a fad that's not going away uh and and and so you know I really do believe companies should be proud of the ingredients they use we you know we spend a lot of time talking about what

Speaker A

we put in a pint you know we Source our our our Dairy from small Family Farms about 20 miles north of our corporate headquarters and have done since the beginning of the company we we Source fair trade certified uh you know sugar

Speaker A

cocoa bananas we're really proud to talk about the producers that produce that uh those ingredients we we buy brownies from a a bakery and Yonkers that has an open hiring policy that uh called the gryon bakery so you know I think I think

Speaker A

companies ought to be really proud to stand up and tell you what they're putting in their stuff and I think it's it's a problem for companies or or you know when when they are not willing to do that and so you're operating under

Speaker A

the principle that some producers are better than others I think sure I mean I think you know whether you're looking at Labor practices or you're looking at environmental sustainability yeah I mean some people do it better than others and

Speaker A

so Kathy to your point that no farmer that you've ever met um isn't concerned about ecological practices and producing things responsibly if every farmer is producing responsibly why do we need transparency well I think it's um if if

Speaker A

that message were clear we'd be a little further along in our conversation about transparency uh than we are today uh you'll see things um written about conventional Farmers for example dousing crops or pesticides being sprayed with abandon that's just not true no farmer

Speaker A

does that at the very at the very at the very least that's costly to Farmers and why would would we do that right it's like filling your gas tank as as much as you need and then letting the gasoline

Speaker A

run out we wouldn't waste money Farmers won't waste money they care about their bottom line they care about the environment but I think um the conversation tomorrow has become um good versus evil Bad versus instead of different different benefits perhaps

Speaker A

different vulnerabilities whether you're an organic farmer or conventional farmer you provide benefits but you also have vulnerabilities sure and I think that that knowledge helps remove some of the rhetoric in this conversation and I think different is good diversity is

Speaker A

good but but please know that I think at the end of the day we're all moving in the same direction it just looks differently say from one of my companies versus Chris's company Ben and Jerry's okay I'm going to push back just a

Speaker A

little bit on that because I think we can all agree that a a public discourse where people are lobbing grenades over the trenches and calling each other names is not very constructive but if we're not going to have it that way I

Speaker A

think we have to offer an alternative vision of what this discourse has to be and I guess you know there is there is a perception in this country and I agree that sometimes it is stated in a way

Speaker A

that is wildly overdone but there is a perception that industrialized farming has done damage to the environment and I think that there's data to back that up in some instances and so transparency isn't useful unless we go forward with

Speaker A

this idea that some farming is better than others which practices would you have consumers look at if they don't look at genetic modification what practices would you like to see consumers be able to make choices about I think that if we uh I think

Speaker A

that's I think I love your question because it's practices that consumers can make choices about right do do we know in America what practices organic farmers use for example organic farmers just like conventional Farmers apply fertilizer they apply pesticides they use water

Speaker A

they use energy fossil fuel electricity all of us are have a footprint it doesn't matter whether you're small or large or you're conventional agriculture uh you're conventional organic just having that information out some it gives folks maybe a a wider view of what farming is

Speaker A

and then as I talked about there are benefits and there are vulnerabilities right in conventional agriculture yield has been a huge benefit in organic uh agriculture in my mind the the adoption of practices that um maintain healthier soils for example

Speaker A

um has been a benefit so you're looking for a more granular way to look at this Beyond just labels organic and conventional something that looks more specifically Chris you mentioned a few things that are on your transparency list what else well let me just say I

Speaker A

think I think there are sort of two issues here that are kind of on the table right first there is this issue of of transparency in food and and whether consumers have a right to know what's in the products that they're buying GMOs

Speaker A

how things are grown country of origin all of these things and then there's a conversation around genetically engineered ingredients right are they good bad sustainable not sustainable there's a debate there but but to be clear these while these things are sort

Speaker A

of connected uh they are also separate there we don't have have to believe that GMOs are unhealthy to require a label right to to require disclosure in fact in in the US we don't label dangerous things we don't sell them uh

Speaker A

specifically food anyway uh cigarettes aside uh so so I think there are these two different pieces I look I think transparency is coming technology mobile technology apps that allow Shoppers to know everything about a product uh at the point of purchase uh

Speaker A

companies are either going to embrace this sort of sense of transparency whether it's around GMO sweeteners you know manufacturing process uh Etc or they will be sort of dragged into it that's a very good point and I want to

Speaker A

get to that a little bit later but first I do want to talk about some of the basics of genetically modified foods because I think we can all agree that whether it's warranted consider whether it's not GMOs have become the Touchstone

Speaker A

of this debate about industrialized Agriculture and as such I think we have to address them specifically and one of the things that I think is frustrating to people who see benefits in genetically modified foods is that if you look at the people who are studying

Speaker A

how people think about these things you find that most people don't really care and when you ask the question would you like to have genetically modified foods labeled 93% of the people say yes but if you ask people what are genetically

Speaker A

modified foods do you think you're eating genetically modified foods and Bill hman who's a social scientist at Ruckers did a an in-depth study and when you ask people what would you like to see on a label only 7% say genetically

Speaker A

modified foods and a a social scientist of the first rank Jimmy Kimmel did uh those anybody seen those videos where he goes out and he says okay what's a genetically modified food and nobody can answer but they all have this idea that

Speaker A

it's bad for them and so we have this situation where people don't really understand what genetic modification is but they've gotten this idea that it's bad for them is that a good foundation for transparency look this I I believe that

Speaker A

that the way in which consumers think about this is driven primarily by the industry that's opposed transparency that the reason people are concerned about it is because they have this sense that there are a bunch of corporations that don't want to tell

Speaker A

them that these things are in the food they're eating I think it's a problem that has largely been caused by the perception that these companies are spending you know more than a hundred million in four states opposing transparency and so I think that makes

Speaker A

consumers say well what are they trying to why don't they want to I'm sure you want to respond to that I will thank you and that I I would say that explaining that um uh seeming disconnect is is a

Speaker A

challenge for us uh my company's support a right to know I agree with Chris the provision of information is inevitable right in the United States uh perhaps in developed countries at least in the near term because we're in the 21st century if consumers have

Speaker A

question questions about how their food is grown they deserve answers so then the question is from Chris is so why are you fighting uh GMO labeling because we believe that the GMO labels that have been proposed are skull

Speaker A

and crossbones they're not really meant to inform because of course as Tomar said most people don't even know what a GMO is sounds dangerous genetically modified organism but to slap that in prominent letters look at the you know

Speaker A

the the language of the bills um on the front of packages right or in bins conveys to Consumers something about our technology that we know is not true okay let's ask that question directly then and the question is if GMOs were labeled

Speaker A

what would you expect consumers to do Kathy and then Chris if they're labeled the way the labeling bills are written across the country they're all the same written by the same folks if they're labeled in that way our understanding is

Speaker A

that it will scare people from purchasing them and so will the food companies take that chance they won't what they'll do is deselect them not use them go to nonm it'll still be conventional but go to nonm that is everything that we oppose

Speaker A

about moving agriculture to constant Improvement we don't want to go back to a time when genetic genetically engineered seeds G GMO seeds now in the common vernacular weren't available and we were using more toxic pesticides and using them more often that's that's a

Speaker A

direction we don't want to move so it's a princip expectation is that consumers would uh be inclined to reject these things to the extent that we would roll back genetically modified foods in the food supply Chris is that also your

Speaker A

expectation you know I'm not sure how consumers will would react to labeled food my instinct is to think it wouldn't you know have a profound impact on you know your average Shopper uh you know 82% of households buy organic people

Speaker A

sort of dabble in conventional they dabble in organic but but let me be clear this is this this really isn't a warning label it's not skull and crossbones it's on the back of pack not front of pack It's relatively small

Speaker A

letters that would be a a similar font size to the ingredient listing on the pack and and food companies like ours have to disclose a whole bunch of things whether sweeteners or natural or artificial not because artificial sweeteners are unhealthy but because

Speaker A

they're different right we we have to label farm-raised salmon in this country not because it's unhealthy or less nutritious than wild salmon but because it helps consumers make decisions we have to label concentrated orange juice in this country not because it's unsafe

Speaker A

or it's a warning label but because it's different and it provides consumers with the information they want so you know I think I think this is not a warning label I think you know and the truth is you know Kathy and I were talking about

Speaker A

this earlier if you look at an ingredient deck of you know a snack chip I won't use a brand but you know the ingredient deck there are things on there that none of us can pronounce or have any idea what it is and people eat

Speaker A

lots of nacho cheese snack chips so Kathy how about that and one of the problems in parsing this issue is that people who oppose labeling tend to predict that it's going to be catastrophic and people who support labeling tend to predict that nothing's

Speaker A

going to happen and one of the tropes out there is that there's a hidden agenda among labelers because they do want to get uh uh genetic modif ation out of the food supply um but it's sort of hard to address that directly when

Speaker A

nobody says that that's true although you know some people have why are you so convinced that consumers will reject it um when it's easy to know that something like 80% of the foods in our food supply in the process the the center of the

Speaker A

aisle have genetically modified ingredients and there don't seem to have been any rejection of it so far well I don't think they know right I mean that's that's the issue um again we're not my companies are not food

Speaker A

companies at the end of the day just as as um food Manu just as Ben and Jerry's is choosing food manufacturers are going to choose what to how to Source you know they're going to choose a um a system

Speaker A

that they want to support and they're going to put on their label uh what they want to put on on their label I can tell you that as I I uh talk about this issue around the country gmol labeling can be

Speaker A

top of mind right but then folks will say but we also want to know about pesticides what kind of pesticide we want to know about the carbon footprint we know want to know about the food miles we want to know about

Speaker A

sustainability goals of the farmers and processors and compan so are we going to so so rather than pick one issue it happens to be my issue rather than pick one issue GMO why are we not sitting down working together to provide that

Speaker A

information that as I said I think it's deserved and I think it's inevitable but it has to be in a way that um makes sense for food manufacturers let's talk about that and for consumers because it's important and so the issue here is

Speaker A

that there are a bazillion things that people want to know about farmers and people want to be able to vote with their feet for practices they support and that way there is pressure on Farmers to do things that people want to

Speaker A

eat and want to see out growing in the world how many of you guys know about my GMO yeast the one that produces the omega-3 fats one one guy he reads my column he's the only one great um

Speaker A

the GMO omega-3 fats longchain omega-3 fats are critical for human development and they're found almost exclusively in Marine sources in fish and in algae um there's Trace Amounts in grass-fed beef and milk but very very small and we have

Speaker A

two choices to feed people this essential fat for neurodevelopment one of them is to get forage fish to feed to other fish and to make uh capsules for this these omega-3 F and the other way is to farm algae which is very expensive

Speaker A

and timec consuming because you have to farm a lot of algae to get a little bit of omega-3 fats now scientists at dupan have taken an algae Gene and theyve put it in a yeast that naturally produces an

Speaker A

oil so that yeast produces EPA which is one of the longchain omega-3 fats they do it in a lab it produces a lot of EPA the EPA is chemically indistinguishable from the stuff that comes from the algae so here we have the solution to a

Speaker A

pressing problem that could uh that could help save our Fisheries now the question is when genetic modification is a I'll get to the question I will I promise that that genetic modification is this technique that can do all these

Speaker A

crazy things can you imagine Chris a GMO that you can support this is not about supporting G GMO is a technology it's inherently neither good nor bad so can I so but let me be clear 99% of all genetically engineered crop

Speaker A

area in the world is pesticide and herbicide resistant corn soy and cotton so could that save the world heck yes could there be a GMO technology that solves the problem of of growing crops in drought regions or feeds the world or does something

Speaker A

wonderful absolutely but but let's be let's have a conversation about what what GMOs are today that's a great great point and I'm going to get back to that but Kathy I was similar question for you Chris's point about herbicide

Speaker A

resistance and BT crops is well taken Roundup resistant soy is hard to love we know that round up ready soy is is hard to love and consumers have rebelled against it across the Spectrum can you imagine a genetically modified crop that

Speaker A

you don't support not at the moment not one that's in the development but I but I I have to take exception but but tomorrow I think that um what folks don't understand about herbicide tolerance is that it is

Speaker A

enabling farmers who adopt Roundup Ready seed or or glyphosate uh tolerant seed it allows the farmer adopters to to move to more sustainable agricultural practices they're going to no till or low till agriculture what does that mean to Consumers what that means is top soil

Speaker A

is being conserved again what does that mean that means that farm runoff is reduced and we we can AR about but let me just but so so I think that I just I'll get to the vulnerability part right

Speaker A

I talked about benefits and vulnerabilities so we've got that sustainability we've got Farmers spending less time on their tractors to apply herbicides that's a reduction in CO2 emissions into the air right you can the data is there so the vulnerability right

Speaker A

the vulnerability is so not surprisingly now we have the development of weeds resistant to glyphosate because we ran to that so we have but I think we have to look at I I would I would argue that with each of these practices

Speaker A

Technologies methods you don't throw the baby the good baby out with the bath water you embrace the benefits but then you work drawing from knowledge you know that that that many farming systems have sure to work on those vulnerabilities

Speaker A

but can you imagine that because not all genetically modified organisms are the same and we should be evaluating them on a case-by casee basis and that's one of the objections to the label if it says genetically modified Clues on it you

Speaker A

don't know if it's my yeast and it's my yeast or or if it's something else that you don't support so right here's the next question if these are so different and if there are some that you can support and if if Kathy you believe that

Speaker A

there are different benefits and different vulnerabilities for each one don't we want to give consumers not just the fact that this is genetically modified but how it's genetically modified ex that's you you made my point you prefer to give consum all the

Speaker A

information Absolut the more information the better this this is you know I I I think I didn't write the language in the bills but there there is some there has been some discussion around do you just label back of pack may contain

Speaker A

genetically engineered ingredients or do you actually in the ingredient deck specify which ingredient has been genetically modified how about how about we take a leap from a agriculture secretary Tom bilac's book and he has suggested and he's not the first person

Speaker A

to suggest that perhaps rather than putting it on the label on the box that we have QR codes and you can put your phone on the on the on the QR code you can find out whether it's genetically

Speaker A

modified you can find out how it's genetically modified and because there's a bazillion other things Farm worker wages pesticide application maybe you want to know the date something was picked um we would have the capability to put all of those things in that one

Speaker A

place because it doesn't have to fit on the box and it might get around the question of scaring people who may not know what genetically modified foods are because it's the people who care who are going to bother Kathy could that work

Speaker A

for you so I think that that is a choice right yes I think that certainly is what um many uh food companies in America are now thinking about uh doing right how do we do this in a way that provides um

Speaker A

that provides honest open information but you also wouldn't want to make that be the only way I mean Ben and Jerry's has every right to instead of putting that information out there somewhere in the digital space to put it on their

Speaker A

label I mean it I think the the provision of the information is necessary and I think companies will determine how best to do it I agree with Chris that um in the United States increasingly Americans are asking questions about how their food is grown

Speaker A

Smart Companies are going to answer those questions how do you feel about QR Cod I mean come on we're at South by Southwest interactive does anyone use QR codes really I something like two or three% of consumers use them the truth is there

Speaker A

are already a number of apps that do exactly what you've suggested I think that this turns on do we believe that consumers have a right to know if we believe they do then you then it has to be mandatory labeling or do we believe

Speaker A

that companies have a right to decide what you want to know and if that's true then we can have a voluntary QR code kind of system what if it's not a voluntary QR system what if it's a mandatory QR system look shoppers make

Speaker A

decisions at the point of purchase they read the labels you know a lot of people won't care about GMOs I I you know I don't care about the vitamin B content of my breakfast cereal but there are some people that do there's some people

Speaker A

that care about fat and there are some people that care about sodium you know Shoppers look for different things but they they look at the label as the place to get information I mean it seems it seems unlikely that we're going to be

Speaker A

working our way through the supermarket scan QR codes on everything we buy yeah we're having this vociferous discussion about a right to know but you're arguing that the right to know isn't so burning that somebody will put their phone up to

Speaker A

a QR code I think some people do that with good guide or other apps I think certain products people are very concerned about you know I worked at Seventh Generation I I don't like to buy sort of conventional cleaning products

Speaker A

but uh you know I use Head and Shoulder shampoo you know I mean I don't use a natural shampoo I you know so some things people care about some people you know oh wait it's not a Unilever product so okay well then let's step

Speaker A

back again we started by talking about transparency we got pretty deep into GMOs Kathy what would you like to see on labels if not GMOs if you want the industry to strike a blow for trust among consumers where would you start

Speaker A

I'd start with this conversation I'd start with bringing together proponents and um folks of labeling and those that oppose and figure out a way that works for everyone I don't know how this labeling issue on GMOs is going to turn out right it could

Speaker A

be Vol at the end it could be voluntary it could be on the package it could be an app it could be mandatory it could be on the package it could be on the app but will have done a

Speaker A

disservice to American consumers if they see a GMO label and they have no idea what it means if we're talking about the trait that a GMO food may have that's a different conversation if we're talking about a way to provide the

Speaker A

information that doesn't scare consumers this is about a technology we support and believe in right but remember I've worked for organic farmers I've worked for conventional the non-GMO um uh Farmers let's get the information out there and again I'm not going to to

Speaker A

guess how it's going to come out on the voluntary mandatory it'll be solved in some way but the information has to be meaningful and it has to be honest or you know what we're just going to have this same conversation in 10 years you

Speaker A

told me this was GMO but you didn't tell me that the or the organic um um counterpart right was using heavy metals you didn't tell me that I don't think there's a winner for any of us if we

Speaker A

don't have the accurate information out there so you would support a trait based system so it's not genetically modified food organ I'd support a GMO system with the trait that'd be fantastic on the label it depends if it's mandatory or

Speaker A

voluntary just to be clear we have voluntary GMO labeling now any company that uses genetically engineered ingredients can put on the package that they're using genetically engineered ingredients do you know how many companies that use GMO ingredients put

Speaker A

that on pack in the current voluntary system zero uh you know I mean this is a really interesting sort of I represent the kind of food side and Kathy represents the biotech technology the the you know the the technology

Speaker A

companies that create these things and it's interesting because for food companies they're sort of caught in the middle right because on the one hand you've got kind of consumers over here saying we want to know what it is and I

Speaker A

get that not everyone really understands what it is you've got food companies that are are using genetically engineered ingredients but there's no functional benefit to the company right you know we transitioned out of GMO ingredients uh we finished the

Speaker A

transition uh at the end of last year before that you know we would use uh a little bit of soy lesan in a fudge chip and you know 90 some odd percent of soy is genetically engineered so certainly

Speaker A

that soy leathan came from genetically engineered soy but we didn't Speck it we didn't say to the to the cocoa manufacturer please give us a so a cocoa chip with GE soy Lessa than so there's no functional benefit to the company

Speaker A

it's not more nutritious it's not cheaper yet this this change has happened right over the last 20 some odd years we went from no G GE crops to 90 some odd percent of everything and so these so you're seeing companies like

Speaker A

Hershey's and Cheerios right making these announcements leaders like whole foods that are pushing towards labeling I mean it it it is interesting that these Brands and companies find themselves sort of the focus of consumer ir and there's really no functional

Speaker A

benefit to them but I I would argue with that because I believe that many of the companies um who are transitioning from GM to non-gm it's their choice I mean they they want uh as big a piece of the

Speaker A

pie as they can get right so they're going to meet the needs of a certain uh set of their consumers I'm all for that that's called competition it's in the marketplace and here we are right in the United States but the fact is is one of

Speaker A

the biggest questions they struggle with in the um in the boardroom or in the you know the the SE Suite office when we move to a non-gm source having used solely a GM Source what is that going to

Speaker A

do to our sustainability goals that is a question that they're struggling with because they are they this is I don't even think consumers realize this there is a a culture of there's this sustainability race within food manufacturers right I don't even

Speaker A

know that it's that obvious to Consumers when you're Buy buing a product off the shelf but if you look at the large food manufacturers they're all um committed to moving in the direction of more and more s more and more

Speaker A

sustainability and to some that means reduced environmental footprint for example so that is a big question they have to ask themselves and and I'm not there for the answer uh to that question but it does impact their sustainability

Speaker A

goals the one ones that they have said and are working toward reduced inputs smaller footprint so Chris how about the idea that genetically modified crops play an important role in sustainability in this country and by pushing to get them out of the supply

Speaker A

chain um we could have some consequences that are unsustainable I guess I don't want to kind of debate the science around sustainability here what I can tell you is that we believe at Ben and& Jerry's that smallscale family farming small

Speaker A

holder cooperatives is a better more sustainable form of Agriculture than big you know Agra business I so that's how we Source that's you know our strategy we support smallscale family Dairy Farmers we support smallscale cooperatives in the global South that

Speaker A

grow ingredients we buy cherries from a a Cooperative in Oregon we believe that it is a better more sustainable way to farm I've written about a lot of these issues in ways that require me to go so deep that people will not talk to me at

Speaker A

parties anymore and I know the feeling the the answer when you start looking at these issues Big versus small conventional versus organic grass-fed versus conventional um the answer never is one side is right and one side is wrong it

Speaker A

is always that there are some practices from one side and some practices from the other side that that could make a best practices list so in saying that small is better um and you didn't mention organic specifically I don't think but that

Speaker A

organic is better we're a conventional company right we're we're not organic I know um by by defining better in this way are you throwing the baby out with the bath water as Kathy said because there are some practices that large

Speaker A

Farmers engage in you do get economies of scale for mechanization that helps produce food more efficiently at large scale perhaps we do 70% of the world's food is grown by small holder Farmers so this idea that that sort of big Agra business

Speaker A

is feeding the world I don't think is accurate and the truth is you know 90% of the Corn that's grown in the US well 45% of the Corn that's grown in the US GE corn is for biofuels 45% goes to

Speaker A

animal feed a little bit gets exported and the rest gets turned into high fructose corn syrup so suggesting that you know are farms important to the American economy yes to the Midwest yes but are those Farms sort of feeding the

Speaker A

you know feeding the world but wait so this idea that there are good things and bad things about every kind of of Agriculture um and you you default to the bad things how about the good things how about

Speaker A

and you know the 70% from small farms is not true in the United States it's true in other parts of the world globally that's a global and that's a global thing we can talk about that but it's a

Speaker A

different issue yeah yeah and in the United States that's not true at all and how about the economies of scale how about the idea that judicious use of herbicide resistance can can increase noil and reduce erosion how about the

Speaker A

idea that BT corn reduces the spraying of pesticides which it absolutely factual does how about those pluses I again technology is inherently neither good nor bad I I'm not here to suggest that that you know that's true again I don't want to debate the

Speaker A

science on this but there are a lot of folks who would and and there is a fair bit of data that shows that the most sustainable way to farm is crop rotation cover cropping uh it is not big sort of

Speaker A

monocropping uh you know leaving Fields bare for you know half the year that that what you're finding is that that you know that impacts yield so yes might there be some good things absolutely and okay I'll take that as a as a grudging

Speaker A

acknowledgement of pluses and and and I'm sure Kathy you can you can well I just think we have to remember thanks to Mar and Chris is that you know 98% of farms in um uh Farm operations in America are run by Family Farmers right

Speaker A

big and small just like any other industry business that we have we have small businesses and we have large businesses in this country that didn't start with GMOs that's been our history for about 80 years right it was it's

Speaker A

interesting that that the organic movement you it was kind of an epiphany if you will right as as we moved in this direction of of economies of scale efficiencies the use of synthetic pesticides Etc and then 40 50 years ago

Speaker A

some folks thought you know what I have a different idea um I I think that we need to help folks in the United States understand how their food is grown give them the information accurately honestly and then let them decide for themselves

Speaker A

and if that means at the end of the day that we move towards a a farming system that Chris is describing we've done so but you know what my companies will do that also right my big companies they are they

Speaker A

provide they produce seeds now they produce organic conventional and GMO seeds right they're going to listen to what their farmers are asking them for right that will happen the marketplace will take care of that but I think again

Speaker A

we we will have been lost this um opportunity to talk with Americans about how our food is grown what do you want to see right what don't you want to see good and bad across the world Chris is absolutely right 95% of the world's

Speaker A

farmers are small are small shareholders right but in the United States we have abundant food clearly we have abundant food and in the Midwest Farms tend to be larger than say they might be along the coast so let's just

Speaker A

say that tomorrow we flip a switch and those Midwest Farms conventional and you know plus or minus GM if they're using GM um and we said that's it we're done with uh weeds weed killers herbicides we're done we're not in this country

Speaker A

we're not laying herbicide down anymore right because organic farm doesn't use weed killers right it's all uh mechanical or by hand 70 million Americans are now going to have to pull weeds in the midwest sure and but again

Speaker A

St contrast is is it's easy to to to talk about but the reality is always more nuanced than that more nuanced and I guess that's why we're having this discussion we've got about 15 minutes left and I do want to to open it up I've

Speaker A

got more questions I can do this till the cows come home but I'm hoping that some of you are interested in this topic and have some questions yeah in the back well I really Chris Chris right and and what concerns you what exactly

Speaker A

is your question oh don't now totally relax so the idea that a consistent crop feeds our livestock stream consistently and that's a benefit all the way through the food chain right and you're right I think that that's really important and I'm G to just step

Speaker A

in here and and follow up on one of your points and one of the issues one of the arguments about GMOs and perhaps you've seen it is this argument about yield where some people say GMOs have increased yield and some people say no

Speaker A

they haven't and everybody has a different set of data but my understanding and i' again I've spent some time with this is that um that it is consistency that that counts so the the farmer has a better shot at a

Speaker A

consistent yield year after year and as a farmer I can certainly appreciate that as an advantage so how about that this idea that a consistent yield helps feed a food chain consistently with fewer ups and downs again I'm not a scientist and I'm I'm

Speaker A

not a journalist I'm an ice cream guide but but I I mean there was a story in the New York Times gosh now I sound like the climate people who say I'm not a scientist but I know you sound like a republican oh my

Speaker A

goodness uh but no but but there was there was a brilliant story in the New York Times a a week or so ago about a a a a rancher in the midwest that's doing you know that's doing crop rotation

Speaker A

cover cropping talking about how that's protected how his yields in drought years were significantly higher than the farmers around him who were so so it's not clear to me that that that's actually the case that this you know GE

Speaker A

monocropping is is doing all these things so I mean there's a there's to your point there's there's data on both sides but I think you know 4 45% after this 45% of corn grown is grown for animal feed I mean

Speaker A

almost half of the corn grown is used to feed animals but but may I but but it's important that you all know that and on the monocropping monocropping has nothing to do with genetic modification it has to do with history in this

Speaker A

country it has to do with um the economics for the farmer and it has to do with you know ensuring a uh a a viable uh consistent crop so you hear about corn and beans being rotated but we have monocropping in wine growing

Speaker A

regions we have monocropping in the specific Northwest with wheat neither of those are GMO we have monocropping in the north central part of the country in Pacific Northwest on barley those aren't GMO that we're we're adding GMO into a

Speaker A

conversation that really you know as if GMO is to blame it's not to blame okay but wait a second I'm going to push back on that Kathy for a second because I think let's go back anybody read Dan

Speaker A

Charles excellent book Lords of the Harvest about the sort of the Inception of of of biotechnology and there was a deliberate decision to focus on crops that cover the most acreage which is corn and soy because that's how you recoup your money

Speaker A

if if you know there's only a few Acres of green beans you don't spend millions of dollars improving green beans because you can't get your money back and so the first biotech really was a doubling down on Industrial agriculture because that's

Speaker A

that's what drives the profits and so to say that these things don't play any role in I didn't say there I'm I'm saying that farmers make decisions for many reasons but including economics right so wheat doesn't have GM

Speaker A

right it was really rejected by the wheat Farmers about 10 or 12 years ago and guess what happened wheat Farmers moved out of wheat where they weren't making any money into corn and beans where they could make money so I guess

Speaker A

you could one might want to blame GM but it was economics that that that truly drove no and that's and again each one of these points is when we could spend 20 minutes on if I could just talk about

Speaker A

the animal feed again I think it's important I mean now is we have this opportunity during this this free forall good versus evil Big versus small this is bad you know this is this is um beneficial to actually talk straight to

Speaker A

Americans right so yes we feed our crop our livestock GM corn and soybean but you know what they also do that in Europe but do you think the Europeans talk about that out loud Europe is a non is a um one of many

Speaker A

countries right that requires labeling of GM on products in the supermarket but what has happened over the last 20 years is that farmers in Europe haven't been able to keep up with the productivity for feed because most of our grain goes

Speaker A

for feed or energy in the United States they haven't been able to keep up but food made from animals fed with GM feed don't need to be labeled in Europe so where does Europe get its 75% of its

Speaker A

animal feed from the US Brazil and Argentina that's all biotech that's what I'm talking about let's just put the information out there and then I just think we'll have better policies we'll have better informed leaders and we'll stop hopefully this um he said he said

Speaker A

she said that's exactly on agriculture because it's not black or white it's never black or white I you want to move to another question this gentleman here that's exactly the question I have I've seen this you know this is an awesome

Speaker A

panel you're doing a wonderful job of moderating isn't she she really there's always a butt when somebody says that sure honestly it's always to it's always he said she said you know I've sat in this this past year because I work in

Speaker A

this industry several times as I know other people have but and it's always like my side my side the truth is conventional farmers use some things that'll kill you the other truth is organic farmers use things on their

Speaker A

crops that'll also kill you that's right how can we get accurate information not the spin of information but you know accurate information here's what goes on strawberries organic here's what goes on strawberries conventional people would be shocked if they knew the truth of

Speaker A

that that's you know so tell me how can we not have he said she said and get information out to people so they could make decisions because the problem is they can't make decisions because it's always skewed one way or another read

Speaker A

toor's column read my column even Chris says read my column but I'm going to just jump in here because this is a question for journalists and that and there are some fine fine journalists out there Nathaniel Johnson Ed GIS Keith

Speaker A

clure who are doing a really good job trying to parse these things and as somebody who answers that question for a living I can attest to how difficult it is but I'm sure you guys have comments on this

Speaker A

also you know I think there are a set of facts in the world people have looked at this stuff there are things we know about this this particular technology and things we don't know but I think what you do a and the promise of

Speaker A

Technology uh is is you just you're transparent about everything you know the environmental working group has done a fabulous job on products in in the personal care area right so companies have to disclose the ingredients they do they use and then environmental working

Speaker A

group has built an incredible database that look at what are the issues with particular ingredients because if you look at a ingredient deck on shampoo you have no idea what it is they've they've recently released a a similar database

Speaker A

around food so they tell you what are the issues with strawberries what are the likely pesticides and herbicides that are used so I think the answer to the question is put all the information out there and let the people who care

Speaker A

about this tell you about it however I'm I'm G to push back on that also because it's my job to push back um because the environmental working group is one of is my how we have time we time

Speaker A

and there you go oh thank you thank you um so the issue here that you asked is about the he said she said and I would make the argument that the uh the ewg engages in some of that and ewg has a

Speaker A

viewpoint on these things and so that particular list like the dirty dozen list for example that ewg puts out has a point of view Kathy what's your sense on this so I think that as consumers if it sounds um too good to be true or too bad

Speaker A

um just think about that what is the what is the interest of the group that is propo um proposing um a a an advocating for a side you can look among um our companies we' never malign organic or conventional non-GMO farming

Speaker A

we have no problem with what Whole Foods is doing they're marketing to their customers we have no problem with the GMO project verified voluntary label there's a niche for that my goodness they're what a cottage industry they're brilliant to seize on that I have no

Speaker A

problem with with Ben and Jerry's because when I look at Ben and Jerry's when I eat Ben and Jerry's ice cream when I look at their website sitting here with Chris is just I didn't meet him until this morning he's not

Speaker A

advocating against a sector of Agriculture he's advoca for the way he and his business want to move forward but I want to go back specifically to the gentleman's question which is if you're somebody sitting out in the audience trying to make a good

Speaker A

decision about these things how are you supposed to do that so I would well I'm going to pitch our own website go to GMO answers there there are only facts there there's no spin it's just the facts you

Speaker A

can ask any question there are independent experts who will answer the questions that's one source there are there are many sources if if you're at um getting information and somebody is pointing fingers at the other I think you've got to step back one as consumers

Speaker A

I think we have to be smart about that if it's if it is this he said and she said it's never black or white we also need to have conversations like this morning tomorrow right so here here Ben and Jerry's and and my

Speaker A

companies are seemingly on the opposite sides of agriculture but we're not well we've seen some agreement and some disagreement and I do want to make sure that we can get in are there any more questions in the audience gentlemen in

Speaker A

back yes yeah I'm happy sure sure absolutely so uh behind the GMO answers website I wear two hats I think Tamar said that at the beginning um as the Council of Biotech information is supported by the large um agriculture seed developers so

Speaker A

that would be BASF plant science that's Bayer crop science that's Dow agroscience that is Dupont Pioneer the Monsanto company and senta again they make seeds they make all seeds all of Agriculture Kathy is here unabashedly representing the biotechnology industry

Speaker A

there's no there's you know there's no hidden agenda here this is this is what she's doing and can I just make one point as it relates to transparency so that's right they make seeds but these are also chemical companies right so

Speaker A

it's not they're not just making seeds they're making chemicals as well that that work with the seeds and are there other questions in the room before I ask one last gentleman way in the back yes work indry I at you guys have

Speaker A

terms so two quick points I think we didn't make this decision based on marketing we really did believe that and and and we sort of coupled the transition out of non-GMO ingredients with our transition to full fair trade

Speaker A

certification so it was a pro we were going to go through the process of looking at every ingredient anyway and so you know given our commitment to small scale you know family smaller sort of Agriculture it felt like the right

Speaker A

decision clearly the fact that this has become an a trend uh you know helped push us in that direction here's what I'll say around super premium we did not raise the price of a p of ice cream by

Speaker A

transitioning to non GMO ingredients it did not impact the the you you know the cost of ingredients for us in a significant way I I can tell you we didn't take a margin hit by by sort of changing our sourcing but Chris if you

Speaker A

went to non-GMO animal feed would you make that same could you make that same statement around costs around cost I'm again I'm not clear that that is there a cost difference between organic and conventional absolutely but but but

Speaker A

could we return to the system we had 20 years AO go and produce conventional non-GMO corn and would that carry the kind of Premium I I'm not sure it would can I ask the question in the reverse way and then I think we are going to

Speaker A

have to wrap up because we're we're how about instead of conventional non-GMO how about organic GMO because if it's the organic style practices like crop rotation cover cropping no till which herbicide resistance can facilitate what if we had farmers who

Speaker A

were engaging in organic style practices with the benefits to the farmers of uh genetically modified feed how how would that look in your universe so I'm not sure I entirely understand the question I think you know organic strictly precludes the use of positing

Speaker A

uh nonorganic non GMO I'm positing organic GMO so the flip side of the coin right but I mean you know again we're not an organic company we are interested in trying to move towards conventional non GM we're we're you know we're not a part of the

Speaker A

organic industry you know we we think there's an opportunity to to move in that none okay is anyone going to actually kick us out at exactly 10:30 or can we take a few more questions because there was a question over there on the

Speaker A

side that I'd like to take oh okay all right in that case I want to wrap up really quickly and hang out with us because we're not going anywhere um so we've talked about transparency and obviously there is some

Speaker A

common ground I do believe that everybody's working toward a sustainable food system but the Visions are obviously a little bit different of what sustainable means and how we achieve it and to talk about how a conversation can can help this I think it's true but it's

Speaker A

limited so what's The Next Step Beyond talking how can we have you know these parties stop engaging in the he said she said and really work toward transparency Kathy any ideas I honestly think that that's going to um take some leadership in government

Speaker A

and in uh the food industry that is not quite mature yet right I just uh what's how social media and digital other digital spaces are being used that's not going to change right we're going to have to be smarter consumers

Speaker A

we're going to have to have a national dialogue I would say and that's where I think the leadership comes in so that in a broad range in a broad scale folks have a better understanding of how food gets to their table we don't talk about

Speaker A

it right we don't talk about it we talk about vaccination oh when we had a when we had a a crisis right an outbreak of measles we had the CDC we had the president saying get your kids vaccinated I'm hoping we're not going to

Speaker A

have to have a crisis before folks will be willing to stand up and talk about what agriculture and food needs to this country and Chris you know I'd like to see all of us align around the idea of transparency let's just tell people

Speaker A

what's in stuff and then we can have a debate around what people think about a particular application for genetic engineering technology some may love it some may not some may buy it some may not but let's I'd love it if all of us

Speaker A

in in the food industry in in the seed industry could just align around the idea let's tell people what's in the stuff we're selling them and on that Kumbaya note um I'd like to thank Kathy and Chris please join me thank

Speaker A

[Applause] you and we will be staying around I think we're getting kicked out of here but I will be you know around for at least a little bit if you want to stay and talk thank you so much

Topics:food transparencyGMO labelingsustainable agriculturegenetically modified organismsBen & Jerry'sbiotechnologyfood sourcingorganic farmingSXSW panelconsumer trust

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