Speaker A
Yeah, good afternoon, everybody. I am back with Ananta due to popular demand, and also we said we would record another video. So hello, welcome Ananta. Hello. Thank you. Lovely to be here again.
Ananta Kranti shares her transformative experience of waking up in a Japanese prison and the challenges of reintegration after release.
Key Takeaways
- Long-term isolation can lead to profound personal transformation and loss of social identity.
- Reintegration after incarceration is a complex process involving physical, emotional, and spiritual challenges.
- Healing requires conscious effort, honesty, and support from like-minded communities.
- Spiritual awakening can occur in extreme conditions and may manifest as shifts in perception and emotional states.
- Connection with basic human experiences, such as eating and social roles, is crucial for recovery.
What the video covers
- Ananta Kranti recounts her 3.5 years in a Japanese prison and the profound personal transformation she underwent.
- She describes the loss of social roles and isolation, which contributed to a deep energetic awakening.
- The video explores the shock and difficulty of reintegrating into society after release, including physical and emotional struggles.
- Ananta details the deterioration of her health, including broken teeth due to stress and lack of medical care.
- She shares the intense emotional states experienced during imprisonment, such as silence, solitude, and a tear of truth.
- The transcript highlights the challenges of reconnecting with basic activities like eating and social interaction post-release.
- Ananta discusses the spiritual and psychological shifts that occurred during and after her incarceration.
- The video touches on the importance of honesty and conscious integration in healing and moving forward.
- Ananta mentions ongoing support groups and retreats for people undergoing similar transformations.
- The conversation includes reflections on how to respond to life’s challenges using the mindset developed through her experience.
Chapters
- 00:00Introduction and Welcome
- 04:08Loss of Social Roles and Transformation
- 08:25Emotional and Physical Challenges After Release
- 12:04Spiritual States and Tear of Truth
- 16:04Struggles with Reintegration and Eating
- 21:09Coping Mechanisms and Support Systems
- 24:42Reflections on Healing and Conscious Integration
- 31:02Community, Support, and Moving Forward
Full Transcript — Download SRT & Markdown
Speaker A
So um I thought that we could just pick up from um where we left off with the story. um just as what happened to you when you got out of prison. So for those that didn't watch the previous um video um
Speaker A
So, um, I thought that we could just pick up from, um, where we left off with the story. Um, just what happened to you when you got out of prison. So for those that didn't watch the previous, um, video, um,
Speaker A
society. Wow. You went in three and a half years. You're like a completely different person when you come out. No person exactly that. The one who went in didn't come out. Let's put it that way.
Speaker A
Ananta had a big energetic awakening when she was in, um, a Japanese prison, and, um, yeah, and I'd be interested what happened once you got out, like how you dealt with that, how you integrated that into being in soc in
Speaker A
there's no woman you know so there's no friend so you're no longer in the role of a friend there's There's no there's no brother.
Speaker A
society. Wow. You went in three and a half years. You're like a completely different person when you come out. No person exactly that. The one who went in didn't come out. Let's put it that way.
Speaker A
So I think that that was a big um component to to why this shift easily happened in such a big way because there were no roles as well.
Speaker A
I mean, absolutely didn't come out. So if you are a long time, like not relating and not speaking with anyone, there's no relationship, then every role you play falls away because you are no longer, I mean, I didn't see a man for 3 years, so then
Speaker A
absolutely massive shock, you know, like tremendous fear to because I'd gone from being solitary confined in complete and utter total silence. So I'd kind of opened into the whole space. So the whole space in the cell was was me, right?
Speaker A
there's no woman, you know, so there's no friend, so you're no longer in the role of a friend. There's There's no, there's no brother.
Speaker A
really Anyway, when I got deported, which is a whole story in itself, arriving back in England broken teeth, hair all broken. And why why were your teeth broken? Because they deteriorated. They just you know the stress levels were so
Speaker A
You're not a sister. There's no daughter. There's no all the roles are gone. You're just all the time what you are aware.
Speaker A
was in there at all you know I couldn't eat and I couldn't sleep so but that changed after a while which is a whole another story which I've told many times in different interviews news. So that can be found.
Speaker A
So I think that that was a big, um, component to why this shift easily happened in such a big way because there were no roles as well.
Speaker A
it was the tear of truth. Like from the depth, whatever I was seeing or I mean I was in such a deep placeless place that it was impossible to have a conversation about anything of this world. Cuz you know, my
Speaker A
That's one of the components. However, when I got out, so it was just as big a shock as going in.
Speaker A
Oh, right. For everyone to see to like be walked down. Yeah. Yeah. I was put on the PL. I was And then the cuffs came off when I sat in the thing. But the woman next to me, she got it. She really
Speaker A
Absolutely massive shock, you know, like tremendous fear too, because I'd gone from being solitary confined in complete and utter total silence. So I'd kind of opened into the whole space. So the whole space in the cell was was me, right?
Speaker A
Gatwick and, you know, I've come back to meet the parents, but it's like I was fullon tripping. I was absolutely tripping like the world is everything I see in the world is unreal. You know, when we when we
Speaker A
So getting moved from there, I got moved straight away into a cell with 10 in, uh, in Tokyo. Waited there for a couple of weeks with 10 people all talking at the same time, all in different languages. So this was, you know, it was
Speaker A
even I couldn't speak about it. I was just and I also didn't know what had happened. I didn't know what this shift I couldn't name it. So I just knew that I was somewhere else. And um so I I just
Speaker A
really Anyway, when I got deported, which is a whole story in itself, arriving back in England broken teeth, hair all broken. And why, why were your teeth broken? Because they deteriorated. They just, you know, the stress levels were so
Speaker A
whole eating thing which I have told in in different different interviews which was a big thing because I couldn't I couldn't eat without having my eyes closed and going absolutely to heaven in a state of absolute in a state of immense
Speaker A
high that many things, the immune system, whatever. I mean, I'd lost a, whatever, I needed a cap, I needed this, but, you know, they just didn't see a dentist for a few years, and I didn't eat for many months when I
Speaker A
couldn't I couldn't everyone was like a mad dog like and I just couldn't get into that. So after a few months, I was taking like one teaspoon of food and close my eyes and start chewing and chewing and chewing and chewing and
Speaker A
was in there at all, you know, I couldn't eat and I couldn't sleep. So but that changed after a while, which is a whole another story which I've told many times in different interviews, news. So that can be found.
Speaker A
end of the the the 6 minutes every single meal I was in absolute and then they give the signal stop and you have to give all the plates and you there's this sounds that I will never forget like the silence of the
Speaker A
Um, so I got out and the absolute, I mean, I had my eyes were like this and one eye was constantly dripping a tear, and this tear was the tear of truth, and it was just a constant, constant drip. I couldn't stop it. But
Speaker A
absolute bliss and this was three times a day, right? So it was it was like um being there was a river of greed where the layer of the dimension where there is all greed and hatred and projections which were flying all around the space
Speaker A
it was the tear of truth. Like from the depth, whatever I was seeing or I mean I was in such a deep placeless place that it was impossible to have a conversation about anything of this world. 'Cause you know, my
Speaker A
into a dimension of of absolute gratitude, bliss, heaven. So three times a day there. So I remained in that state and so when I got out I couldn't sit at the dinner table and eat with my was my father and his new partner. I
Speaker A
brother picked me up at Gatwick and goodness. But even being in an airplane must have been very Well, I was in, I was in cuffs when I was put on the plane.
Speaker A
daughter, but at the same time I was like this is unreal, you know, get me back in the cell. Yeah. You're like falling through all the cracks. That's really interesting because I actually happened to me but just in a different
Speaker A
Oh, right. For everyone to see, to like be walked down. Yeah. Yeah. I was put on the PL. I was And then the cuffs came off when I sat in the thing. But the woman next to me, she got it. She really
Speaker A
the only way I could do it was turn around and face the wall with the eyes closed that's so amazing took two years but when we ate together when I came to your house I don't know if you remember this
Speaker A
got it. She She realized what was going on. And yeah, it was, you know, there were all these restrictions and there's a there's a whole story to that, but I don't want to use our time. So coming to
Speaker A
either." And so I was just like, "Oh, yes." Just going on a journey like, "Oh, the connection." Because this is your first your first connection with anything is with the food. And how we connect with that is how we connect with
Speaker A
Gatwick and, you know, I've come back to meet the parents, but it's like I was full-on tripping. I was absolutely tripping like the world is everything I see in the world is unreal. You know, when we, when we
Speaker A
wall. And they were like, "Okay." I could hear them whispering like, "She'll get over it." you know, but for me it was like a an absolute sacrilege to disconnect with the food and go into these nonsensical conversations. So yeah, so sweet. There
Speaker A
think about the statement, the world is an illusion, everything I could see, I could just see right through it. Like none of it had meaning. And I was in a completely different state of being that I couldn't possibly converse with anyone who would
Speaker A
us in the prison. So, yeah, I had ongoing nightmares, always thinking that I'd wake up in the middle of the night feeling like the guards were looking through the window, you know? Yeah. And uh the paranoia, the high alert of being all
Speaker A
even I couldn't speak about it. I was just and I also didn't know what had happened. I didn't know what this shift I couldn't name it. So I just knew that I was somewhere else. And, um, so I I just
Speaker A
So, and I really felt like I can't I can't relate to this world. I was seeing people running all over the place going nowhere. All running in a rush going nowhere. And I thought, what are they what are they doing? like there's
Speaker A
couldn't I couldn't converse. I couldn't relate. I couldn't So I locked myself in the room in my father's house. It took about 4 months where I just went into solitude in that house and I couldn't, um, so there's a whole story around the
Speaker A
And and and paranoia like the police would come for you again or No, not like that. But I was being watched 24/7.
Speaker A
whole eating thing which I have told in, in different, different interviews, which was a big thing because I couldn't I couldn't eat without having my eyes closed and going absolutely to heaven in a state of absolute, in a state of immense
Speaker A
wake up in the middle of the night and I'd have nightmares of of uh like people peering through the windows and stuff.
Speaker A
gratitude. You know, it was the only way that I was able to eat. And, you know, the food would go in my mouth and I spent like, 'cause we had six minutes to eat in the prison and I just
Speaker A
our system. So, I I didn't bleed all the time I was in there. I didn't have periods. and um 2 weeks. No, like you never know when someone's getting out. I didn't have a date to get out, but you see that people
Speaker A
couldn't I couldn't everyone was like a mad dog, like and I just couldn't get into that. So after a few months, I was taking like one teaspoon of food and close my eyes and start chewing and chewing and chewing and chewing and
Speaker A
right? So, and you don't know what happens after that. So, um, the moment that I got called to to to this immigration visit, I started ovulating and two weeks later, I started bleeding, right? My body knew I was
Speaker A
chewing and going with it until it became liquid. But and in that process was the immense gratitude of of where it originated from, where it how it was grown, who carried it, who cooked it until it arrived on the plate. So by the
Speaker A
a man because for 3 years I hadn't felt like a female and now when a male come into the room I had all these like fe you know I had nothing coming up for 3 years like nothing there was nothing to trigger the
Speaker A
end of the, the, the 6 minutes every single meal I was in absolute and then they give the signal stop and you have to give all the plates and you there's this sounds that I will never forget like the silence of the
Speaker A
now aware there was no uh feelings of like shy or uh any of these things. The moment that I started to see men again, I started to experience feelings of shy and all the feelings that come like when a man looks at you, you know, these
Speaker A
lambs and, uh, I would just be like these sounds and they just take all the plates and I would just be like in this state and I'd open my eyes and they'd all be staring at me but I was in a state of
Speaker A
to do with me. And yet here I am experiencing it. So after 4 months there was this this shift in my energetic shift in my whole system where it was just time and I looked up and looked in the eyes of
Speaker A
absolute bliss and this was three times a day, right? So it was it was like, um, being there was a river of greed where the layer of the dimension where there is all greed and hatred and projections which were flying all around the space
Speaker A
a tantric living experience. So when I say that I mean at one with all that is like energetically merged with all that is in this like so the density on a certain level there was the density wasn't there and
Speaker A
because you're in silence. But there's a loud there's it's loud in there because you can hear everyone's thoughts, everyone's feelings, everyone's projections. It's like a river of all that stuff is there. So I was going out the door
Speaker A
shirts school shirts. So this was like absolutely incredibly painful like the nerve was damaged down my arm and there was a lot of physical damage. So these different levels there was damage on the physical and that has a mental emotional
Speaker A
into a dimension of of absolute gratitude, bliss, heaven. So three times a day there. So I remained in that state and so when I got out I couldn't sit at the dinner table and eat with my was my father and his new partner. I
Speaker A
You know that could could you elaborate a little bit more on that as to what exactly you mean because I think a lot of people only know sexuality as ejaculation you know and as bonking.
Speaker A
couldn't sit there and eat with them and talk about what the news on the TV did it was just impossible. is like, uh, uh, uh, uh, so I was trying to pretend to play the game of being someone in a family, a
Speaker A
already making love with itself. It's already making love with itself before the sexual act of these bodies. So it's already creating all the time. It's created all this. It's created all that is all the trees, all the animals, all the birds, all the
Speaker A
daughter, but at the same time I was like this is unreal, you know, get me back in the cell. Yeah. You're like falling through all the cracks. That's really interesting because I actually happened to me but just in a different
Speaker A
The tantra vision. However, it was there before it was called tantra, right? Someone had to call it that. But it was already there. Of course, just as you and I, woman and man, is here. But it was here before it was called that.
Speaker A
way like I found it very difficult this one well there was a few but one of them was sitting at a dinner table and eating with people and still now I don't particularly like going out to two years
Speaker A
sexual meeting and there is a a complete merging and meeting of what we actually are, then the separation is gone. And the energy is just one movement. And as it moves as one movement, it then merges with all
Speaker A
the only way I could do it was turn around and face the wall with the eyes closed that's so amazing took two years but when we ate together when I came to your house I don't know if you remember this
Speaker A
that's it's like a doorway through the doorway of the sexuality between two that lets go into the one opens into the cosmic orgasm. All right? And this is the ultimate love making of existence. Godliness making love with itself I like to say. Right. So, where
Speaker A
we actually ate together and we both sat in silence And like he gave me bread with this amazing sandwich. Do you remember? Oh, vaguely. Yeah. And we sat in silence like and I was like, "Oh, thank God. She doesn't want to talk
Speaker A
Where's my spoon? You just totally trusted me in the like constantly orgasm and then you have to go to before.
Speaker A
either." And so I was just like, "Oh, yes." Just going on a journey like, "Oh, the connection." Because this is your first your first connection with anything is with the food. And how we connect with that is how we connect with
Speaker A
level I was all damaged and there was suffering in the body in the body mind. So I think the point an important point is that this was all here at the same time.
Speaker A
everything, right? Yeah. So yeah, it took two years. I couldn't I I mean I would have to excuse myself, you know, when people kind of invited me to thing. I just say like, you know, I just need to close my eyes and face t
Speaker A
is a really good question. I saw that comment. Um, what did I do with all that? And is there spiritual bypassing? I love that comment. Yeah.
Speaker A
Yeah. Yeah. I wish I had my Oh, yeah. Somebody somebody commented about that, didn't they? Yeah. Yeah. And I love that comment because, you know, I don't think I could ever ever be. Not that I was being accused of that, but I'm very much
Speaker A
a body type, right? So, what did I do? Within 6 months I was back in India, back in Punea.
Speaker A
Well yeah, rocking it, right? But I went I went with all this damage and I went first I went to back to Thailand and met with all my friends who knew me before and now they're I'm meeting them
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again. But the one they knew before wasn't here. And there was no way that I could explain where I was. So I didn't talk about it at all. Anyone.
Speaker A
There was nobody I could talk. It's not like now there's all these non-duality meetings and there's all this satsang.
Speaker A
No, there was nobody I could talk about in this. And did they notice a difference?
Speaker A
Um, sure. Sure. They notice, you know, I mean, I did I did talk about deep things, but I think it was often too deep. I had this one tear dropping, you know, someone would just say something. I remember going I'd go with
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my mom for lunch somewhere and they'll just say something, you know, on the superficial level and I would like penetrate it to its depth and they'll be like Okay.
Speaker A
Like she'll get over it, you know? Yeah. So, I was it was kind of seemed like I had a lot of healing to do because I was saying like really weird stuff, you know. But I needed to speak, but there
Speaker A
was no one to speak with at such a depth. You didn't know any non-duality teachers? You knew? There was no there was none. The only the only the only I the only ones I knew was Osho was my
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master at that time. Right. And we're going back 28 years. I got out in 1997.
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Right. So there was no there was no awakening for the ordinary being at that time. There was no. So I couldn't even recognize that that is what has happened here. Right? Cuz I still had all this uh pain and trauma. So, how could I
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possibly think that that was anything to do with enlightenment, whatever that was, right? But I knew I had to go back to Punea. I knew I had to I had to go.
Speaker A
But I what happened was I came across Gangaji at that time. And as soon as I started listening to her, as soon as I because she was speaking in a very direct, very clear, very direct, as soon as she started speaking, I knew I knew
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this she's speaking. This is it. This is it. This is it. This is it. So that was, you know, and I just became then obsessed with listening to Gangji all day and all night.
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I went to Punea and I went into a 4mon rebalancing training and this training is about a very deep type of body work. I was training in that body work where you you're training to go through every part
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of the body to release trauma. you you go very deeply into every part of the body. It's uh it's got ruling is one component of it and um structural integration and meditation and so you have to go through everything
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in that training. Every part of your own body has to be gone into deeply and opened up and released.
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So I was in that for 4 months and I can tell you that at one point there were about six or seven people standing around while I was on the table and they were working really deep in my body.
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about six of them standing around with pillows while I was punching, spitting, kicking, like absolute cathosis, releasing all this, you know, the deepest of anger.
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All of it, all of it getting released and and you're learning how to work on another. So I was working on others in the same thing and and this was just like you know and I didn't tell anyone
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in the training and halfway through the training you have to stand up on the stage naked like you might get to keep your pants on but otherwise you got to stand on the stage naked and have the whole
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training read your body you know which is about 30 people or something and I stood up on this stage and I just broke down cuz I hadn't said I hadn't said anything but now they were starting to read my
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body and they could see you know like it it was like uh everything was all in the top part of my body. I had shoulders but I had no legs. I had nothing to stand on. My legs were gone because I've been
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working on a machine for years and not allowed to walk anywhere. So no use of the lower body. And um anyway they they started speaking my the reading it and I just broke down and then I told and then there was a whole
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big it all had to come out which was fantastic was fantastic. I had to find my my voice again because my voice was so small and so low like hardly could speak, you know, because I hadn't spoken. So started screaming all of that
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out and so I went through a real and but of course Asha Kyun is very much um it's it's for that and it's also three amazing meditations a day. You've been there right?
Speaker A
Yeah. It's it's phenomenal. Um Osho Asham, I know there's a lot of Yeah. controversy around him, but for me for healing going there, I found it really phenomenal. I mean, it's very it's very different and some people might not
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agree with the tactics like I told someone recently about my experience and they were like that's abusive, but I found it phenomenal. It like really absolutely absolutely all right. I never I never was interested in all the stories. No,
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I'm telling a story now. What it does, I didn't care. I didn't care about all the stories. I knew that what I needed was there.
Speaker A
And it's a very tantric field as well. You know, there's a lot of dance.
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There's a lot of, you know, um, shouting, screaming, cathosis. Who is in? I had to do the who is in again. that group that I mentioned in the first video. And for me this time it was an absolute piece of cake. I was
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laughing all the way through it that people were like having a problem being silent for 5 days. But anyway, um and and it's very spiritual in the sense you know you remember the white robe brotherhood.
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I don't remember the white robe. Uh, so is I mean I won't go into all of that, but incredible, incredible spiritual and um like really you're just in a meeting with God and um slowly slowly it was gradual that I started to
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understand more clearly the shift that had already happened. And um I was working on bodies and I was you know and one of the things about the stories you know I saw a few comments about why the story da da da
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but one of the things I like to say about that is that we are all unique. We are all that which we're pointing to. We're all you know absolute godliness looking through a pair of eyes. We're all that and yet we are
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individuated in a very unique expression and there are not two the same. And it's the very story the journey that we walk through and we process through where we have a unique experience of realization. And as that integrates our
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unique personality, we become a unique expression of this message. And that is why we see so many um messengers or call them teachers, whatever you want to call, but the messengers of of this message with a very different angle,
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with a very different shape, with a very very different flavor. And that is very much to do with where we've come from, how we've grown. And and nothing can repeat that. And that's that's why it's so it's so beautiful because you come to
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understand people in a very unique way by what you've yourself experienced, right? And the same for me.
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I come to understand so many things through through all this challenge and difficulty um that I can immediately look into someone and see where they are and see where they're free right in the midst of where they're totally and
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absolutely suffering and stuck. And you know, it's like it it gives you credentials that you can't get or qualifications that you can't get by going in a training program in a university.
Speaker A
It's the university, right? So, yeah. And then then I'd like to say that um when I started sharing actually you know there was a couple of years I was I was in Puna I was doing all this work with people and amazing to work
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with people in their deep deep stuff and all of that and I just could not anymore support the story of the story of me the me story. I mean, I know I'm telling a story of me here, but there's a very big
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difference. There is a very big difference. I know I don't need to explain that to you. Um, but when I had people on my table, like coming on my bodywork table and they would be going through, say, something that happened to
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them when they were three, some trauma that happened and they'd be reliving some kind of abuse, and it would all come out and I'd be like working with it.
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It became very obvious to me that unless they came to the point of recognition of who they actually are, that would be never ending. There there'd be another another part of the trauma and another part of the trauma and then it
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would just keep going around because it's it's the me story. It all happened to me. And if that identity is not seen through, then there's no way to experience all of that in freedom.
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So in the midst of all of this, I had came across Dolano, which some of you might have heard, who was in Punea, and she was the only like the only one around at that time. She was giving
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satsang satsang intensive and um uh yeah I mean it came my way of course and I went to her and she's just amazing amazing amazing crazy amazing wonderful very unique incredible powerful crazy amazing and um the very first she she she has a
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particular way you can't ask a question for the first nine investigations. And in the first investigation when I walked in there and she does the direct inquiry of who am I? As soon as she started to speak it, I was like bang. It was what
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she calls the drop drops into the ocean. the drop dropped, you know, and it was just absolutely absolutely absolutely confirmed, you know. I dropped into the ocean and I could not could not could not stop the tears crying and crying for
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hours and hours and hours. But this was this is not a a a you know needed for awakening. This was just absolute relief of the confirmation of knowing what I've always known being confirmed and and seeing and seeing and seeing and seeing all the
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moments of the life that this was already known because it is already what we are. And so it is already known. And as it was being confirmed and confirmed, I just was opening and opening and opening into the into the all that is
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into absolute absolute bliss. Absolute absolute. And it's very very tantric. This is tantric. You know, tantra is not all about sex and feathers and dressing up and yoni massage. It's the whole of existence in a love making with itself
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all inclusively. So there's a very um important point I'd like to share about the all-inclusively because I was in a relationship at that time. It was my first relation my it was my first relationship after I got out. Wasn't my first love
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making. It was my first long-term relationship. Um, and uh, I was living with him at the time and he was so angry that I had we were we were both in this Dano thing together and the I'd opened into
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He was so pissed off because he wanted it and he was so angry and so he rejected me. We were living together and he rejected me and he said if I am loved then I don't need you. Yeah. And he just
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pushed me away. And so all the triggers of rejection and all the personality trigger and all the female trigger and everything got triggered in my system while at the same time I was in a total expanded ongoing experiencing of
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absolute to such it and under. The same time there was a touching of a core wound and uh all the feelings of rejection and all those things were all moving through my body and there was the question like you know what am I going to do with
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this? what's the how how do I deal with this? Because there was nobody to answer that question. Delana wasn't interested in that question. She didn't deal with the world at all. She was totally removed from the world. She didn't deal with relating in
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any way. So there I was with this contradiction apparent contradiction, living with this guy who who was, you know, ongoing. There was drama and here I am like, how does this two come together?
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And I did ask her, she couldn't answer that question. She wasn't interested. And so that became my living inquiry. From that moment it became my living inquiry. How does all this come together?
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And from that moment, the integration of all these levels started very consciously because I will say that between the moment I got out of jail and this moment, there were three uh human years. Not that years even exist. There was just only one moment,
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right? But in the world of time, there were three human time years. In that was this confusion. And so from that point on, I was the living inquiry. And from that point on, from that point on, I started I'm I'm circling back here
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because those people on the table that were having these traumatic releases of the little me, from that point on, I started to bring to work with them to bring the recognition of who they actually are. I would sit for 15 minutes before
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we started the body work. I'd sit with one on the table and do a direct inquiry of who am I bring them to the recognition of of so there was no separation between what I am and what whoever it is is there was a direct
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seeing and then I say okay let's start the then I'll start working on the body and as I was working on the body and all this stuff would come through them I'd be throwing their arm around and say
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look see what is not moving something like that so these pointers started to happen and they'd be having these recognition and then it came to a point where they were like can we do more of that more of that can we do more of that
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that inquiry because they were having these like experiences of awakening. They were waking up on the table and they were like, "Can we do more of this like this? Can we do more?" So I started offering sessions of only that like an hour of
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that and then they started telling their friends and then the friends started coming. I mean there's a whole story to that. But um so it was it was there's a whole story that goes with that which I've told many times where I received
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the knowing that I'm made for this. I'm made for this delivery. I'm made for this work.
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All of what I've ever been through is for this. And there's no other point to it other than this.
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I'm here to serve this and through what I've lived through allows me to meet anybody in the depth of pain, in the depth of trauma, in the D and work with it in a way where I absolutely know beyond all doubt
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always that they are free and they can know it right now always and the integration of all that. So, I want to stop here and just let you.
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Yeah. Sorry. Let me see what comes up. I mean, it's such a phenomenal story. I can see um Yeah, I can see how like you were made for this. Like, it's really phenomenal. No doubt. No doubt.
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You know, so when people say to me, "Oh, but I haven't had this big explosion experience, da da da." I say, "You don't need to. It's already done. I already did it. That's why I can easily take someone into
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recognition, you know." And I and I feel it's like that. I feel it's like those who came before us you know like the Ramana the Ramas and the Ananday and Nisaga those who came before us they they did that for us they sat in a cave
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for years and years in silence so we don't have to you know they paved the way and they prepared the ground so that we could more easily receive you know and it it feels feels to me like uh the evolution of that is
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that now you and I ordinary beings are able to transmit this to more and more and more ordinary until it comes main becomes mainstream.
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Yeah. Yeah. Certainly the I mean that's such a beautiful idea the you know they've already done it for us because there is no separation.
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Exactly. Exactly. Yeah. So, it's been done and you know like I bow to that. I bow to all that's been done and somehow moving in this life now you know arriving as an elder which is even a shock you know it's a
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shock really never I never expected to age what's that you know but arriving as an elder and then seeing more and more young ones starting to pop and starting to teach and seeing how it's become so easily available.
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Yeah. And still there are different levels of depth because this as you know when you pop this realization is the beginning and it just deepens and deepens and deepens and deepens and it it's an endless deepening. Right. Yeah. Yeah.
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Vanessa Gadata says which I always really love that um the personal consciousness whatever that is but it means like the manifest consciousness it's role is to infinitely expand.
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Exactly. It's really that on the human world or whatever that is like it's always it's always evolving always growing. Yeah. And that that's beautiful because there's no arrival point. No.
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Yeah. And we used to this the thing is most of I think our work is removing illusions because it's only the illusions that are in the way of what already knows itself.
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Right. And it's the same. Yeah. Go ahead. And in your experience um you find that people often have to do trauma work before or settle down the person before or do you feel like that doesn't matter? It's really just dependent. it's
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karma or whatever you call it as to um I would say that if it's not done before it will need to be done after in most cases it's not a rule because there are no rules in this right but the
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more work we've done before once the recognition is there then it's easy to integrate is much more easy but if there hasn't been any work before and then there's a recognition.
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It's like, oh, now all this stuff is now got to become conscious, you know, all the ways and behaviors and patterning and all of that. And you find that people um so if that happens, they have the pop and then they have to do the
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shadow work afterwards or the trauma work afterwards. Do you find that there is a lot of falling asleep and waking back up again or you find that they're pretty clear throughout that? Um, I I see a I see most of the time is that
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people people go in and out. So, but that's because they basic experience. So they're they're having the experience and then like they wearing the personality identity and then they're seeing and they're wearing the personality and they're seeing and this identification
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kicks back in until they're just seeing right through it. Yeah. So but but in that I often meet with people that they they base it on having the experience of no identity. So of course you know that it's not even about
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experience and it's it all it's all here at the same time. So identification can be triggered in any moment all at the same time that you're totally free.
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Yeah. So, it's it's it's all coming together at this. It's neither neither this nor that. It's neither in nor out.
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Yeah. Um I think I have more questions there, but they're not springing to mind instantly. And what Oh, one comes. What um what is the way that you tend to work with people or is it really dependent on
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who you see? And depends on I mean I can just immediately see the level of understanding you know when someone comes and they start speaking the lang the language always gives it away even if the language is correct.
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Yeah. There's uh even if the words are correct, there's something about the energy in the words that's either alive or just intellectually spoken. So you know when people come it's like I'm taking them in absolutely completely taking them taking them in knowing
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them knowing them because we are one you know so completely taking them in and then penetrating yeah what and how do you find this so from the tradition that we sort of came from the Indian tradition there's a lot
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of focus on having a guru and committing to a guru. Um and I see the importance of that but it really doesn't translate well in the west like um because it's a massive cultural thing in India the idea
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of a guru whereas in the west it doesn't quite translate well um but I see the importance of it in regards to the commitment to it because if you're working with someone then and you're pointing out they're seeking and they're
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suffering they're going to get very reactive with you. Yes. And um and so the under yeah the underlying like commitment I mean that's what India I think really does well. Um but there's lots of problems with the guru when it
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comes over to the west because a lack of understanding of it you know so then it gets into weird dynamics and then gets bad press. Yeah. agree. Um but so how do you how do you deal with that the um the
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reactivity when you point out the stuff but then them carrying on to commit to it. Yeah, good question. I feel that it also has a lot to do with the the the time that we are in now like
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2025 like the era of the guru disciple is over and done. And I and I was speaking that when I first started speaking in in Punea. I I used to hold satsang in Punea in 2004. 2003 2004 I started holding
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satsang in Punea. Many people came. It was full and it was so beautiful because as you say it had that Indian flavor. So it was really the satsang setup. Very very beautiful. And um I I was speaking that then because I was seeing that it
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had become available to anybody and everybody and not just to the guru on the mountain or the guru in the cave. So for the ordinary human being to to be able to recognize right here right now no matter who this is some was something
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new. You know, when I started giving these sessions in year 2000, it was something new to be able to bring someone just immediately into direct seeing.
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And but what was missing in that and still often is is the um the readiness to value what is recognized, the value of that. Right? So I feel that un unless we've come along a real journey the recognition is easy but the
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valuing of that is something else. So how much that is valued is going to determine how willing the ego self is going to bow down to that. Right? So in the in our past times that was the role of the guru disciple
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is that the the guru played the role of of being there as a a symbol of absolute truth and the disciple in recognizing that absolute truth bowed down its ego self in service to something higher. So that that role is very very beautiful
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and I lived through that journey myself. But I feel that it's it's going out.
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It's not of our times anymore. Even if it's still around, it's not working. It's you know, we see a lot of lot of being called out, you know, because these kind of behaviors of no integration and we're seeing a lot of
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that stuff. However, the the message has now kind of come into the west and been made available much more easily.
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However, it's a very fine line. A very fine line because the the separate self getting the experience of direct recognition recognizing I am that. So why should I? I'm the same as the teacher. I'm the same as the you know
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there's nobody else. There's only and I am that there can be and there often is coming along because you know you know as well as I do that even with this what you call the energetic awakening the the
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small self ego personality is always walking by the side always walking along the side waiting for the moment you're not looking to step in and reidentify. Right?
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So when there is like like say for example I have a room full of people and can bring everybody into direct realization.
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Everybody there is with the eyes open recognizing. Yet there are different levels of valuing that or trying to own it and use it in service to the ego self.
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So then they want to it happens the reactivity and they want to compete with you or show some kind of proof that they don't need you which is you know it's a it's a bit like um mommy daddy
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stuff you know because there's a projection of of uh mommy their mommy daddy stuff if it hasn't been worked through and played out and seen through and dropped, they're going to play it out with the teacher, you know, and I see that a lot
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and because of the times we're not just because, but alongside the times that we are in and it being more and more available to to wake up, if there's no maturity There's no, as you call it, the energetic shift. There's no real the
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drops into the ocean and the opening of the being there. There is often still the identifying with the awakened position. And then they've got all the words. They've got the intellectual understanding. They've got all the right words. And now they want to challenge
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you because deep, deep, deep down there's some unworthiness that hasn't been resolved. So now they got to prove that they're worthy. And you are. If they can prove it with you, then they take their power. This is something that
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I see in the arena. One of the components. Yeah. I don't know if that answers what you are. Yeah, totally. Yeah. What I would call it is like the seeking energy like coming back and then they're seeking to be something. So they're
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seeking to be better than you or to have power. And and what's so fascinating is it's so invisible to them like so you know like um they really project I'm the same now as an I've you know like I the same
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realization and because they've because like you see they've had that clear seeing but it's just not been what I would say energetically integrated.
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There's no integration and as you know this needs integrating. You can't just have the experience and that's it.
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What about all the personality like you know all the places where you are got all these like behaviors of manipulation and that that that's why um there's a lot of teachers being called out right like you know where we see
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sexual abuse or we see behaviors that are you know and that's the new fashionable term spiritual bypassing has come about is because of the um uh the tendency to go in the absolute and go into this absolute position of
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there's nobody here. There is nobody here. So, uh there's nobody here to do anything wrong and there's nobody here. You know, that position doesn't integrate on the ground floor of daily life experience. It can be used in a denial.
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And so what we're talking about when we say integration is when all of that gets updated by stepping into it with clear seeing in the way that we operate on the ground floor and with qualities like honesty, absolute honesty. You know, you
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just can't sneak and cheat and lie and all those things. You even if you say, "Well, there's nobody here. I didn't do that." It's not possible because there's no embodiment of this of this purity, you know? It's like everything gets
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cleaned up, doesn't it? It's a cleaning, an absolute cleaning. So the integration I would say is happening for the rest of their life.
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Yeah. Yeah. I I love I love you saying that because that to me is like absolute humility, you know? There's no position of like I'm done. I'm finished. It's like I can endlessly expand. Exactly.
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Endlessly. I mean I don't want to say I mean Yeah. I don't claim to be I don't think anybody is finished arrive have arrived.
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Yeah. Like the on the human level there's always like to remain what was it Papa G said remain vigilant until the last breath right when he was asked do you still need to remain vigilant he said until the last breath.
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You know, there's I don't claim to be, oh, it's all over and done and there's no work. Yeah. I love the way that you're saying this just so for the people that are listening because they're used to listening to me. I say
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in a different language, but I totally resonate and totally feel like it's the same, very similar, but it's just different ways of saying it. Yeah, absolutely. That's what makes us unique.
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And I love the way you express as well. Like it's, you know, it's fascinating.
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Like I watch you and go, "Wow." Like, "Wow." You know? No. Really? Because it's so unique and that's that's the beauty. Yeah. Yeah. It's so unique.
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Yeah. Nice. I think maybe we should come to an end again. Maybe there is more. We talked about doing a live stream together and doing questions, but maybe there's more we do, you know, after we put it out and we see how people
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respond. Yeah. Yeah. What what have you got coming up? Like what what is there people how can people interact and work with you? Well, as you know, I have a retreat coming up, but I don't know whether this will be viewed
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before. That's um Yeah, I think so. I think I'll put it out in a couple of weeks. Yeah. Well, that's happening in um a month from now in Portugal. I'm in the algav right now and I my life is not sorted out you know
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just for anyone listening I don't have all my life sorted out not not at all you know um I'm still looking for a place to settle physical home da da da um and I have an online sa an online
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living awake group membership group an intimate group where we meet regularly every couple of weeks And we have an ongoing intimate exploration and support. And uh yeah, I offer sessions and containers for people who want to really invest in a real intimate indepth
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journey together over months. And I'm also I've been feeling recently like for the right person you know um that I would do individual retreats you know but with the right application have to be a real alignment not for
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anybody um and yeah I I run retreats at least a couple of times a year and uh I think that's really beautiful to do individual ones. I've often thought about that and thought about working with like some form of yoga or
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body work teacher as well. Yeah, I think this could be really really powerful and especially because you are often in such beautiful spacious countries like Portugal. I' I've done it before. I've done amazing individual Yeah. Yeah.
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because people are so I mean one thing that surprises me like I I like a lot of silence on retreats and just in person I like a lot of silence. I noticed that that's really challenging for a lot of
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people you know but before I got into nonity I was practicing Buddhist so I was so used to going on to silent retreats and being in silence. Exactly.
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And so to do these like individual retreats where you really have to face yourself in silence, but you've got somebody that's guiding you and helping you to keep that commitment. Yeah.
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Really beautiful. Yeah. It's very beautiful and and tailored to the to the particular person's level and ability and No, it's very very very beautiful.
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And um yeah some as you were speaking there was something I um yeah the silence you know all my retreats are in silence there's only the whole thing yeah the whole thing the the only talking is um in the sessions which
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are very intense you know which you might get I mean I'm kind of intense um Um, yeah. So, it it's it's they're all in silence and it really really I can't believe, you know, it was like being in
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prison. You're waiting for the girls not to look to whisper and how they how they just want to chat. Yeah. It's just like, you know, my events where they're speaking are more popular. Really? Yes.
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If I put silence on the less popular. Wow. Amazing. Perhaps there should be like a a couple of hours where they can go and I'll consider that. I think it's also because and I partly understand it.
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So I I do do that. I have hours where people can speak for a couple of hours some days. I've never done I'm strict.
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I'm like a prison guard. Yeah. Yeah. I think it I think it's because that um that often people are very isolated.
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So when they go on retreat, they they want to meet other like-minded people, right? You know, they're very isolated.
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You know, they're not like us that, you know, in our 20ies, we're traveling, we're going on retreats, we're meeting so many people in this, you know, especially in India, you know, in Punea, um yeah, in Thailand, so many spiritual
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people. Whereas a lot of people that come on retreats, you know, are living a 9 to-ive job with a family and so they're they're they don't have the opportunity to speak about that. So then to go on retreat and meet
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like-minded people and then be in silence like you're going to get punished. Yeah. Not all of them. There's there's some that aren't like that, but yeah. No. Yeah. No, it's good. It's good point. Yeah. Thank you. I I will
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consider that. Yeah. Yeah. And often like the retreat I've got coming up in next month, it's um it's non-residential, so they get their own Airbnbs around the villa that I've rented. So they can actually meet in the evening and do whatever. I'm not, you
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know, I'm not walking around the Algav like watching them looking through their windows or anything like that.
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But I think it's such a beautiful thing to do a silent retreat. Like if anybody has got time at Easter and wants to do a silent retreat, like go for it with an Nanta. It's just such a beautiful thing
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to do. It blew my mind. Like learning how to be in silence. It was such an important point part in my early 20s. I was so uncomfortable in silence. Wow.
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And not having something to do, you know, to learn how to be silent, not do something. Yeah. Yeah. I love it. I was I was, you know, when I got out of jail, I was like, "Oh, now I got to hear them
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all." Do you know what I mean? I didn't have to listen to them. I could hear it in the silence, the thoughts and stuff, but now I got to actually listen to all those ah and that's secretly why I put it
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inside. So I want to listen to them. Yeah. But of course also I have like I don't know 500 videos on my YouTube channel and and no my not as popular as yours. It's like not many people know about me. I think um yeah
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it's uh I don't know. I I think that um there really is something in how that how this whole thing works.
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You got to be ready. I think that the message that I bring and the the thing that I invite is really it can be quite confronting because it's deep, you know.
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Yeah. Yeah. It's really And like you say, your personality is very intense. Yeah. Yeah. Sometimes sometimes when I struggle boundaries, my boundaries are getting so much better. Like I've really had a breakthrough with that. But sometimes when I struggle with them, I
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think what would a nanta do here? Honestly, like I use like the image like how would ant respond and then and then when you get the imagination of that, do you act on it? I just it helps. It's like what you used
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to Khesi used to do for me as well. You know, Kesi was really fierce. It's like it's like an energetic thing like like imagining how you would respond like no like like just your firmness like but my boundaries are
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getting so much better now. I've really worked on that the last 10 years. Wow.
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Oh that's beautiful. Yeah. You've grown so much because I mean I've I've seen you I've seen your stuff for 10 years easy. Yeah. And that that's the thing.
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It's that what we're talking about. It's like it's this deepening and deepening and deepening and this is endless revelation, you know. It's such a beautiful beautiful thing. And before we started and before we end you before we start before we were on camera, you
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asked me to say something about you wanted to to open up the door of house sexuality.
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Yeah. can be. Do you want to ask about that still or I think I think um we now um Oh, we're Yeah, I think we're over an hour. Oh, are we? I think we're like an hour and 15. So, I think maybe that's
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another Yeah, I would love to talk about nonuality and sexuality. Um yeah, and feminine energy.
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And I would love all of that. There might be another video, another live stream or Okay. We can see what people comment like ask like how they feel, what they would like. Yeah. Would would people like to attend a a live with
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questions or something like that. Yeah. Thank you so much, Lisa. You're so generous in the space you offer.
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I really feel that. I think I've loved it. Yeah. Yeah. I just I loved it. Yeah. And I love having this friendship. Yeah. Me too. Absolutely.
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Really valued. Really cuz you don't I I have found I don't know about you. There's not many I don't have a lot of friends I can relate with on this level.
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totally find that too. That's greatly appreciated. Yeah. And I just felt to say, you know, you said you are looking to settle like just because there's a wide audience and I know there's a big audience in Portugal and
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you are looking to settle in Portugal. So, I just thought to say that, you know, if anyone else has got any contacts or ideas, yeah, they could contact. I I'm also it doesn't have to be Portugal, you know. I I feel like it
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can be I'm I'm feeling that more and more because it there are many reasons because it's so it's so spread out here.
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It's like yeah, it'd be great to have some contacts here that know of something, but I'm also open to wherever. I just really need a landing place now at this point in their life, you know.
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Yeah, thank you. Yeah, thanks and Okay, so I stop recording now. Yeah, and thank you everyone listening. Bye.
Topics:Ananta KrantiJapanese prisonspiritual awakeningprison experiencereintegrationpersonal transformationisolationhealingemotional recoveryconsciousness
