15 Years Later: What Comes After Awakening? | Ananta Kranti & Alan Steinfeld

Ananta Kranti and Alan Steinfeld revisit awakening 15 years later, exploring living the truth beyond initial realization.

Key Takeaways

Awakening is the end of the egoic self but the beginning of living that truth in everyday life.
True self-awareness requires ongoing practice and presence beyond initial recognition.
Life’s dramas and triggers are waves to be witnessed, not identities to be taken on.
Direct inquiry into 'Who am I?' reveals the unchanging essence beneath all experience.
Love and authenticity are central to embodying awakening in a world of separation.

What the video covers

The video revisits a 15-year-old interview with Ananta Kranti about her awakening experience while imprisoned in Japan.
Ananta shares how awakening is not an end but a beginning of living truthfully amid life’s challenges and collective separation.
The discussion includes direct inquiry into 'Who am I?' inspired by Ramana Maharshi’s teachings.
They explore the ongoing process of remembering one’s true self despite egoic patterns and life dramas.
The conversation highlights the importance of presence, silence, and dropping into deeper awareness.
Alan and Ananta discuss how awakening impacts daily living and the nervous system’s retraining.
They emphasize the distinction between surface-level reactions and deeper witnessing awareness.
The video includes guided meditation and invitations to recognize the ever-present true self beneath stories.
The dialogue reflects on love, authenticity, and the essence of godliness within all beings.
They address common struggles with forgetting awakening and the continual choice to live in truth.

Chapters

What was Ananta Kranti’s awakening experience?

Ananta Kranti experienced awakening during a three-year imprisonment in Japan, where despite physical and mental suffering, she found a deep presence and freedom within.

How does the video describe the process after awakening?

The video explains that awakening is not the end but the beginning of living truthfully, involving ongoing practice to embody presence amid life’s challenges and egoic patterns.

What role does self-inquiry play in this discussion?

Self-inquiry, particularly the question 'Who am I?', is presented as a direct method to recognize the unchanging true self beneath all stories and experiences.

Full Transcript — Download SRT & Markdown

Speaker A

[music] In a [music and singing] cell of silence, three years deep, where the body is [music] broken and the mind can't sleep. Working the factory, [music] pushed to the edge, resisting the moment on [music] a razor's edge. Every day counting a

Speaker A

victim of time wanting to die in a concrete mind. The consciousness going wild [music] seeking escape while physical [singing] exhaustion could not keep pace.

Speaker A

The last time I [music] saw Anata was, um, 15 years ago in London. We did an interview that kind of went viral because there was a moment in that interview where I just really dropped into a presence

Speaker A

based on our dialogue, and so we thought we'd see what happens 15 years later [laughter], right? And, um, because that goes around the world because she had this awakening. Tell them the story or it doesn't matter? Well, um, if you don't mind,

Speaker A

yes, please. First of all, what I'd really like to do is to invite you all in to your depth.

Speaker A

If that's okay with you. Got that? I know. I love that.

Speaker A

[sighs] [clears throat] So, yeah, I invite you to close your eyes just for a few minutes. So, we're just going to just allow the weight of your body to fall into the seat.

Speaker A

Really being willing to drop everything you don't need right now, and whatever may have been working through you before this moment to allow all of that to fall away.

Speaker A

Remember who you are. And sinking deeper into that, that which you are beneath all the stories, all the events. That in you which is always free.

Speaker A

That which never comes and never goes. Regardless of life circumstance, situations, stories, happenings, deeper than all of that, remember who the [ __ ] you are.

Speaker A

Nothing can take that. And it's time to step into it. [sighs] And whenever you feel ready, [sighs] you're welcome to allow these magnificent eyelids to open to a world of color, shape, and visuals. And before you look out,

Speaker A

take a moment to [clears throat and cough] see what is looking. What is it in you that is looking?

Speaker A

Welcome. Whenever you feel ready. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you all for coming. So, we had a conversation 15 years ago. We had no idea where it was going. And Alan started out by asking me my story.

Speaker A

Mhm. Which my story is a good story. You know, I woke up in a jail and, um, Alan was so amazing in getting me to demonstrate what that actually meant or means. And what that is, when she says she woke up in the jail,

Speaker A

she was in this Japanese jail for like a minor marijuana charge or something like that.

Speaker A

LSD. LSD. And they caught her and they put her in jail for three years, and she was tortured. And this was what was so amazing in the interview, talking about how she was, you know, you're tortured. You're in the—when you're going to get out and your mind just tortures you. And she was, she couldn't lean back. And one day she said she leaned back and she just started to fall deep, deep, deep, and that's what really got me. And she

Speaker A

had this bliss feeling even in this awful place. And, and, and, and you said when you were released soon after that you were, um, what do you say, disappointed because everyone out in that outer world was still in jail? She found freedom in this.

Speaker A

That's what I remember. That was what was so moving about that and that awakening, that moment, that being stayed with you. So, we went into the investigation of who am I, yes, which many of you may have heard Ramana Maharshi's who am I question. So, we went into the direct inquiry of that, that brings about the recognition of what one always is, right? So it's never something that in past times in the teachings we may have believed that we are trying to get there, and through an instant direct inquiry it's revealed. And we went into that and there was a transmission. I felt that moment even now in that meditation I'm feeling the bumps in the ego that

Speaker A

person did that to me and my stomach is a little restless, but I—that's—you get me to the place of I'm just watching all those things. They're like just little bumps, but it's not disturbing whatever it is

Speaker A

that we are. What is it not disturbing? Those are just—I can feel those things on the surface like little discomfort physically, a little emotional upset here, but I sort of make that happen.

Speaker A

You know, they're there. And then here I am in a way separate, but I'm noticing that's not me. I notice how I can make that into a story, but that's not whatever is underneath here.

Speaker A

And what is that exactly? What is that? [laughter] Now I know your question. What is that?

Speaker A

It's that thing we all are. I mean, I think if you have to, if you've reached that place you know what it is, and if you haven't reached that place maybe you don't. I don't know. How would you?

Speaker A

So the, so this was 15 years ago and obviously, you know, that recognition for me was nearly 30 years ago or something like that, but ago when we met was 15 years. Oh, you had that 30 in the—Oh, I didn't

Speaker A

know how. Oh, yeah. No, I was released in 1997. Oh, so it's 29 years and it stayed with you. [laughter] I am that.

Speaker A

But that what were [clears throat] we going to say? So, um, yeah, it's, you know, many of you may already recognize that that recognition is the beginning. It's not the end.

Speaker A

And until a certain point we are waiting for that recognition with the belief that it's going to be the end.

Speaker A

And then after that everything is going to be easy because whatever you've believed, but actually that is the end of believing there is a me in here, like a me entity to be found in here. The belief in the story

Speaker A

of me is over. That is the end of that. But it is the beginning.

Speaker A

It's the absolute beginning of how do you live this? How do you now live this into your body, life with all its conditions and all its patterning and all its what it's accumulated in the memory body? How do

Speaker A

you now live that in truth in a world that is, um, the whole collective belief is in separation?

Speaker A

So yeah. So how did you live that for 29 years? [laughter] How did you—are you doing? How are you living it?

Speaker A

I mean because I forget, you know, oh yeah, I'm that again. But it's [laughter] like I forget because I get caught up in the dramas. So how often? Probably once a minute. No, [laughter] no, no. I, I, I do, I just get caught up.

Speaker A

It's like, oh, [laughter] yeah, that's the ego. It's like, you know, and how much, um, of that has your life?

Speaker A

Well, whatever that, I mean, is the life below all that when I remember. But that is the forgetting and getting involved in the world and this person wants that.

Speaker A

So that's a good question. So what you're saying is that you spin on the surface, right? And that is precisely why I asked everyone to get quiet and come because otherwise everyone's spinning on the surface and it will just, you know, it's just all

Speaker A

going in different directions and to meet directly in the truth of, you know, because it's no good speaking about it. That's not my business to talk about it. It's direct and immediate.

Speaker A

Let's meet as that. Right? So, how can I meet a room full of—where's the meeting point in that?

Speaker A

So, that is why it is essential to just stop and drop and meet, you know, so that what is speaking is also hearing and there is no separation in that. So, how much of your life is that? Most of

Speaker A

it. Do you get caught up in not that? No, you don't. No. Okay. Just checking. [laughter] No. Okay.

Speaker A

No. Okay. No. I mean that the play of life is playing. It's all coming and going and playing. There is never a moment when it's not seen for what it is. A play well seen for what it is. It's like it's

Speaker A

like the, what we can call ego or the patterning or the triggers on the memory body can be touched and it can trigger a kind of a pattern of reaction, right?

Speaker A

But there's no becoming that, that it takes over, you know. So, it's more that it's met and directly experienced as a wave of sensation and then a deeper looking into what the [ __ ] is true here

Speaker A

and what in that moment becomes a choice. What am I going to be true to?

Speaker A

You k

Speaker A

But there's no becoming that that it takes over, you know. So, it's more that it's met and directly experienced as a as a wave of sensation and then a deeper looking into what the [ __ ] is true here

Speaker A

and what in that moment becomes a choice. What am I going to be true to?

Speaker A

You know, right? And as soon as anyone is aware, there is a choice. Mhm. So, I just had a reaction recently um from someone who [clears throat] um and it's an ego thing. I wanted to do this presentation

Speaker A

and this person didn't want me to do it. It was in London happening in New York.

Speaker A

So, I got insulted because he didn't see who I was. And that's Is that very recently?

Speaker A

Yeah, very recently. All right. So, and how did you feel? Well, I feel like when we drop into the place below that, that's just like a little like, you know, stomach ache or but if I let the story go,

Speaker A

then I could get really bothered by it. So, if you if you let the story if I let the story go in my mind and talk and that how could he how could he not recognize [laughter] who I am and

Speaker A

know it's like that. But that is it's like it's it's touching a wound. Yes.

Speaker A

Right. Yes. Yes. That we can call we can call a core wound. Yeah. That every human Yeah.

Speaker A

um experiences in the moment of like when we're 3 or 4 years old and we take on an identity, right?

Speaker A

And we're receiving the environment and forming an identification with me, my name, and that.

Speaker A

Exactly. And the interpretation of the environment is now meaning something about me. Mhm. Yeah.

Speaker A

And that is telling me whether how good I am, how bad I am, how how much I'm worth.

Speaker A

Exactly. Whether I'm lovable, whether I'm It's telling all all that all that came up. Yes.

Speaker A

And that is then then the the reaction to that as the three or fouryear-old is starting the pattern in the nervous system. How how we respond to that as a child to deal with those feelings is now creating a pattern in the nervous system

Speaker A

that is then repeated and repeated and repeated every time it's touched. Right. Right. And it's still happening.

Speaker A

Right. So beautiful. So beautiful. So beautiful. He goes right to it and just offers it up to me.

Speaker A

And that's you know what I'm talking about. It's just so beautiful because everyone knows what you're talking about. I mean not that particular story but everybody knows that. Is there anybody here who doesn't know [laughter] what that feels like?

Speaker A

Right. Right. Okay. Right. And it's because of that that we um the integration process of of the direct recognition of who am I really truly deeply? I am aware D.

Speaker A

Right? So the integration of that into our persona into our lived personal experience and the updating of all that patterning can only happen when when we start meeting that differently.

Speaker A

Right? So that gets touched. I just that gets touched and so I ask you how did it how did it feel? It doesn't feel good. It feels like, you know, a wound.

Speaker A

Does it uh like it does it kind of um something in the interpretation in the young mind? Does it kind of go into like worthiness?

Speaker A

Yes. It goes into worthiness, good enough, you know. Exactly. Maybe this person doesn't like me or it goes into all that stuff, right? And it doesn't come up much because I get a lot of nice things from people [laughter]

Speaker A

which which then if you are then they tell you you're worth it. Yes. And then the other side of the coin I know. And that's even Yes. It doesn't matter how worth it they tell me. I still have that little piece.

Speaker A

Right. But the very taking anything outside of you to tell you how worthy you are is [clears throat] a two-sided coin, right, that disconnects you from your own knowing of, you know, because I guess but one feels better than the

Speaker A

other, you know. [laughter] He's so honest. I love it. Yeah. But yes, it's Let's go with the Yeah, go ahead.

Speaker A

Let's go with this. Right. So, let's go with this. Let's So, [laughter] so where does it feel in your body?

Speaker A

I feel like here. Sort of here. This middle part here. Right. Right. Physically wound like a wound. Right.

Speaker A

When was the first time you ever Oh, that's good. First like little psychoanalysis. [laughter] I think I can go back to I think it happened. Not to do too like you know psychological but when my I was like two

Speaker A

and a half years old when my brother was born younger brother I'm the oldest and I got all this love from my mother and suddenly this is my story I didn't wasn't getting second yeah I wasn't getting the same love so I

Speaker A

was the oldest and my brother's one and then suddenly right my love that I was getting wasn't you became second yes or yeah right so in the child mind Yes.

Speaker A

That that created some kind of belief. Yeah. Rejection. I'm not good enough. Yeah. So even though it's natural, of course you have a baby brother. Yeah.

Speaker A

Right. So that that formed to the belief in the psychological level of that little one.

Speaker A

Yes. Did a right. [laughter] A little one. Can just imagine he walks in here now. This little one. A a he wants to be loved like he used to be loved. Yeah.

Speaker A

A can we have a little compassion for you? I do. Yeah. Thank you. So yeah. [laughter] So he just doesn't know who he is, right?

Speaker A

Well, he knows that he's not getting the love he got, right? But he does he doesn't he doesn't understand his his essence. He doesn't understand. Right. So now that pain and that that trigger and that touching of rejection,

Speaker A

how many times have you experienced that in this life? That's that's like a career, you know?

Speaker A

[laughter] No, I mean I've had some good moments and then [laughter] they're back to the womb sometime. I mean, I make it that way.

Speaker A

How often has it played out? How often? Yeah. I don't know. A lot. You know, we all have those moments, right?

Speaker A

So, you know it well. Yes, I think I do know that. Well, yes. But I also had a lot of love, too. So, but it doesn't Yes.

Speaker A

You know, patting someone's different than stabbing. So beautiful. It's like you're talking from the inside of everybody's child story, right?

Speaker A

So, so what does he need? What he needs? love to know it's always there, always can have it, always want, always loved.

Speaker A

What What did he need in that moment? In that moment, he needed to know that he was still loved. Okay. And right, okay, I guess worthy. Worthy worthy.

Speaker A

Well, well, whatever story I made up, he needed to to feel the presence of love.

Speaker A

Yes. Right. Yes. Right. Yes. Right. You needed to feel the presence of love cuz I was al Yeah. I felt alone. Yes.

Speaker A

Yes. Right. I would say that's true. Yes. So Mhm. Can you to that to that feeling in your body?

Speaker A

Can you bring all of your presence to the feeling in the body? Like a like a like a like bringing your presence into being willing to to experience that that love, that pain, the pain.

Speaker A

Yeah. To experience what it feels like like you're you're coming in as present to experience what that Well, I feel it because it's current now, right? Yeah. Good.

Speaker A

Yeah. Good. Perfect. Yeah. So, you go bring your presence right into it and just being willing to experience right like fully being here for it.

Speaker A

Mhm. Fully being here for it. Mhm. Directly without wanting to turn away. Right. Without moving off to a story about it or talking yourself out of it.

Speaker A

Right. But to directly meet feel it with no story. You're saying yeah to meet it right to meet it in the way you love to be met to directly and intimately.

Speaker A

Yeah. Can we have eye contact while you do that? Sure. Yes. Thank you. Yeah. Let's media it together. Let's mediate it. Let it be here.

Speaker A

I'm feeling it in my body. Let it fully welcome. Thank you. Fully welcome. All that he needs is your presence, [sighs] your loving presence, [snorts] without any resistance, without want any wanting it to go away.

Speaker A

You can close the eyes if you want. No, no, I don't mind. [sighs] All the way. Welcome.

Speaker A

Welcome. All the way. Welcome. Like a wave that's moving through your system because it's it's not here all the time.

Speaker A

So feel the sensation as it moves through my system. It's a rising up through your system.

Speaker A

It's a movement of experience. Mhm. It doesn't actually move. It kind of stays a little stuck.

Speaker A

Okay. Let's stay with it then. Okay. Let's stay with it. Giving it all the presence.

Speaker A

Mhm. It has waited so long to be presented. How is it to meet it right now?

Speaker A

Feels a little lighter. Feels a little Yeah. and stay with it. Stay with it.

Speaker A

Yeah. Stay with it. Yeah. Stay with it. Yeah. I mean, like it's welcome to stay forever.

Speaker A

Well, it has been that way. But I think it I I can keep recreating if I if I you see that you if you keep if you move away from the feeling, the energy goes to the story.

Speaker A

Yes. And I create you create the pain. But that movement away to the story is to move away from feeling.

Speaker A

Yeah. It's a such a good story. I'm attached to it, you know. [laughter] It's such a um familiar story.

Speaker A

But the the the reason it's so familiar is because you've the create the creation of the mechanism of the automatic reaction to go to the story keeps it unmet.

Speaker A

So it comes again and again. The story itself is doesn't meet it because I'm talking. I'm not The story can't meet it. The story can't meet it. This the story is a movement away from feeling.

Speaker A

Feeling it is is your presence to just stop. Take your sword and cut the movement because this is like a neuropathway that automatically goes in towards the story as as the avoidance of feeling, right?

Speaker A

But you are teaching it, you are training your brain to move differently and your nervous system when you go cut the story. I'm here. I'm here for you. I'm here for you. I feel I feel those parts like you know the story

Speaker A

it's been there so long and cutting the story it's like I'm losing my identity in such right that form of identity but that's an old story that see so you see what it costs to give up that story cut it and remain

Speaker A

present and that's a very it's a subtle thing that you're naming because that is such Such a beautiful thing that you're naming. It's the unwillingness to die in that moment.

Speaker A

To die for the story. To to die for truth. To let the story die. Yeah. To let the self, the ego.

Speaker A

Yes. It's ego death. It is my ego. It's ego death. My ego wants to tell every Yeah. wants to say wants to survive but also want to say look at me. I'm important. Whatever. All those stories.

Speaker A

But but just looking just being with that it's just But if we go deeper Yeah.

Speaker A

If we go deeper into the true meeting. Mhm. Right. So you you as presence.

Speaker A

Mhm. Right. Coming into the meeting. What does your presence need? I have to get the part. Mia's presence.

Speaker A

Me presence. Take a moment. Help me with that. [clears throat] Mia's presence means just just here. Yeah. So bring your presence to the sensation in your body.

Speaker A

Mhm. Can you do that? The awareness. Yeah. So what is it that comes towards the sensation? What is it?

Speaker A

Sensation is just my sense of feeling in the moment of Are you are you present?

Speaker A

I'm feeling with that sensation. Yes. Yeah. My mind I can feel my mind be so busy saying, "Oh, what about that?" But if I'm just with the sensation, I can.

Speaker A

Yeah. Can you stay? Can you keep eye contact? I do have to keep a detaching.

Speaker A

That's why I bring you to eye contact. So you can't go anywhere. No. Good. Good. Good. Good.

Speaker A

You go everywhere. You just come here. You won't I get that. Right. That's why I don't.

Speaker A

So it's not cuz I want you to look at me. No. You're lovely. [laughter] But but I don't even feel the sensation if I'm present. I have to just the pattern is recreating. But I'm not saying I have

Speaker A

to, but that's been the So right now, yes, right now, stay present here. Mhm.

Speaker A

And tell the story of how you feel when that trigger gets touched. But stay here.

Speaker A

Okay. Don't go. Okay. [laughter] Right. I can't even get to it. I know the story is now more obviously the story.

Speaker A

So you can't even get to it. No, because I But the habit as soon as we look away and you look down go out the fear and you go and you're back in the car and you're back there,

Speaker A

the thing kicks in again. Why do they say that? Why do they not want me to do that thing? Right.

Speaker A

Yes. Yes. Because it's still unmet, right? So how do you mean it or let it go? That's the invitation.

Speaker A

Oh, that's the invitation. Um, can we are they in or out or what? We have a new person.

Speaker A

Oh, okay. Is that okay? Okay. But you're going to have to come in and drop straight into presence.

Speaker A

Don't. Yeah. So, okay. Yes. Right here. Mhm. Right. Mhm. [clears throat] Yeah. No, I'm I'm back here with just here.

Speaker A

Just just let's let's go around again. Okay. Okay. Right. Right. What happens to you when someone tells you they don't want you as a presenter?

Speaker A

Look in my eyes. Oh. What happens? What happens inside your system when someone tells you they don't want you as a presenter?

Speaker A

Oh, I'm sorry. Okay. You see, I have to look up and tune into the um um but if you say it that way, nothing happens. I mean, okay.

Speaker A

What does your what does your mind make that mean about you? The habit of your mind was it making well I have to get away from the presence to to connect with the mind beautifully. Now that is just really

Speaker A

beautiful pointer. It's just making it very clear that if he's present like and and the and the momentum, the pull to go towards the story and drive that thing to have that that victim to have that the victim thing

Speaker A

the the momentum to go there which has played so many so many so many times is so strong and it's the the what you named as the ego identity wants to survive even if If it's as a victim,

Speaker A

yeah, or even as if it's as not good enough, it wants to survive. And you are naming that if you're present and you're here to meet it, it's difficult to find it.

Speaker A

You have to Right. Exactly. Yeah. It doesn't mean anything cuz I'm making it up. I mean, I'm seeing that, right?

Speaker A

But I'm so used to making up so comfortable to make up. And you you're beautifully telling the truth for so many right so what I am inviting is that the moment that you when it gets touched because it will get touched

Speaker A

again and again it will get touched when it gets touched can you as soon as you remember stop and decide decide to meet it decide to meet this movement that moves through your heart and your gut. Decide to meet

Speaker A

it without moving away into the story. Just meet it. But the story is what will be the disturbance. So without No, the pain is unmet and this is you asked me how do I been living this for 30 years.

Speaker A

Right. Right. So let me say this that when this first opened and I first got into relationship because it's in relationship where all those uh deep buttons are getting pushed mostly right so I was in relationship with a a man who was also in this clear

Speaker A

recognition right and as soon as the the patterning that is not yet updated started to get touched and pushed and triggered. I was with this question, how the [ __ ] do I bring what I deeply know as who I

Speaker A

am Mhm. into this walking talking form of right rejection dynamic or whatever it is. How does this work? This was my living inquiry and there was no teacher at that time. It's 30 years ago. There was no teacher I could go to and ask that

Speaker A

question. Right. So that became my living inquiry. Mhm. And it became very very obvious cuz it was start playing between us, right? The pushpull, the rejection dynamic, the all the games we start playing to avoid getting hurt, to start to manipulate, to

Speaker A

protect, to defend, to all those things started playing. And it was a living inquiry because what mattered to me, what mattered and matters to me more than [ __ ] anything in this life is true freedom, right? So in that moment, I took it on

Speaker A

and he took it on. We both took it on to actually stay for what was being hit.

Speaker A

Mhm. to stay and to for that energy that that plays all those games to be willing to die for the love of truth.

Speaker A

And in the beginning it wasn't easy, right? But it's easier than living the lie.

Speaker A

So the lie being the story, the lie of separation. Yeah. The lie of separation because there really truly is no other. But let's let's stay with this for the moment, right?

Speaker A

So, we are the attraction point to every to everything, right? We are the attraction point. So, we're going to attract the one that's going to push the button that is going to offer us the invitation to yet again choose freedom or not.

Speaker A

[clears throat] Yeah. Because what we ultimately deeply want, and I believe that's what you ultimately deeply want, is freedom. Mhm.

Speaker A

Right. So you attract yourself to those dynamics that's going to push that button here, there, and everywhere. So that the invitation comes once again.

Speaker A

Are you willing to meet this in truth? Yeah. This is your doorway to freedom. So you keep attracting it again and again for that opportunity.

Speaker A

So that became the way I started walking, right? And of course it in the beginning it was so it was like really going through death every time you know and that became a new way of the default the new neuropathways the

Speaker A

new so until that became natural. Yeah. Right. So your question was how what became natural the the to if I get a trigger which of course I can get a trigger. I'm human.

Speaker A

Mhm. Right. Yeah. So if if there's a trigger coming, it's natural to sit with it, meet it, meet it directly, and allow truth to reveal itself. And when you say allow truth, directly experience, you feel it. When you say you allow

Speaker A

truth, you feel it. And you feel the truth is the story you're making up about it. Is that what you're saying?

Speaker A

No. Tell me, [laughter] tell me what truth is for you then. You feel it, the trigger.

Speaker A

Okay. So, you you got triggered. Let's bring it alive because it's alive, right? So, you got triggered.

Speaker A

There's a hit to your heart and your gut. That sets off in your nervous system the story of I'm not good enough or then well that's that may not be the surface story, but that's at the root.

Speaker A

Yes. Right. Yes. So now when you see that and you see that this is an old thing and it's not actually nothing out there actually means anything about me, right? Cuz it's not Yeah, I'm making that up.

Speaker A

Nothing outside of you can ever mean anything about you actually, right? So when you see that this is an old hit to the system and you choose like the first thing I would want to do is get get my space

Speaker A

to sit and feel if it was in the gut or if it was in the heart to to just be there with that as it moves through. And so let's talk about you cuz I'm in a different place now, you know.

Speaker A

So as it hits your system and you the moment you see this is an old thing Mhm. Yeah.

Speaker A

you decide to take the opportunity to free yourself. I free myself by knowing I'm making up the story. Is that what you're saying?

Speaker A

No. Tell me. Well, yes. But tell me what you mean. You know that instantly. You know that let myself know that I I do know that if I don't indulge. Yes. Okay. But what So the moment you you take the space

Speaker A

to sit with the feeling without moving away to sit with the discomfort meet it. Yeah.

Speaker A

It's a true meeting in the way that you and I meet right now. There's a meeting.

Speaker A

Yes. Right. So in the same way you're going to meet that sensation like that is the wound of that little boy. You're going to meet it in the same way that we meet right now.

Speaker A

Yeah. Present and directly. You're gonna meet that feeling and stay with it. Stay stay for as long as and you with a welcoming that this can stay forever.

Speaker A

Welcome home. Welcome home. This little this little wounding mechanism is like the nervous system of the little boy.

Speaker A

Welcome home in your heart that you open for it. So it's welcome to come home in you.

Speaker A

Okay. And as it's moving through you and it's in a welcomeness not to get rid of it, right?

Speaker A

truth will start revealing itself then revealing to you where it comes from, what it really is, right?

Speaker A

And stop feeding anything about that particular story and it would start revealing itself to you.

Speaker A

Yeah. Let the discomfort reveal let whatever that is because in that is in that energy Yeah.

Speaker A

is is the story of the its root. Yeah. So it would just reveal itself to you.

Speaker A

And you as presence, you as the awareness of all the movements are the space.

Speaker A

The space. The space. The same space that is in between these bodies right now. The same space we spoke of 15 years ago.

Speaker A

Yeah. Right. This space that is holding the space right now. You are the space of your experience.

Speaker A

Okay. I'm not sure when you're saying the space. So the the trigger is there. I'm feeling it. Um not doing anything about it because I'm just letting it be.

Speaker A

Is it in your body right now? I don't feel it so much right now.

Speaker A

Okay. But yeah. And the space is what exactly? When you say the space, the space is well, let's have a look.

Speaker A

Let's Yes. [laughter] And yeah, the space right now that appears between you and I in these bo these bodies. The space that is here for all these these beings to sit in.

Speaker A

We are sitting in a space. This this room has a space. The bodies come in, the bodies go. The the space remains that space right now.

Speaker A

Is it in or out of your body? Can you check? Check before you answer.

Speaker A

The space that we're in right now, is it in my body? The space which is here right now between these bodies.

Speaker A

Mhm. Is it dead or alive? Keep eye contact with me. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Is it dead or alive?

Speaker A

It's alive. It's alive. Okay. Let's look into it. What is it made of? It's made of What is it made of? Look into it.

Speaker A

Yeah, it is made of um uh some kind of not energy. That's not the right word. It's made of u it's made of us maybe. I would say that something.

Speaker A

So, as you look into it more and more, this this space right here, this space, you say it's alive.

Speaker A

Mhm. [sighs] Is it also inside your body? Can you check? I think there's something that's not letting that inside the body.

Speaker A

And here from where are you looking to see that? Where am I? I don't know. I guess I'm looking from the body to see that. So there's a separation between the body.

Speaker A

Are you aware right now? I think I am. [laughter] Whatever I'm aware of. Yeah. Okay.

Speaker A

You are you aware? I'm aware to whatever level I'm aware to. So yes. Yes.

Speaker A

You're aware that you sit here on this chair? Yes. Meeting an ant. You're aware that there are a room full of friends. You're aware. So you are aware without any kind of doing.

Speaker A

Yes. You're not doing anything to be aware. No, I'm just here with some friends. Yes.

Speaker A

Right. And so this in you which is aware is not a doing. It just is.

Speaker A

Yes. Yeah. Yes. Can you locate that? Can you find where that is? No. Where are you aware from? Where is that starting point?

Speaker A

Maybe here but everywhere. I mean it's it's it's not it doesn't have a starting point anywhere in the way.

Speaker A

Right. Is it in also in your body? Yes. That's in the body. Yeah. Yes.

Speaker A

And does it end where your body ends? No. It doesn't end where the body ends.

Speaker A

Is it also here in the space between us? Yes. It is. Yeah. Yes. Yes. So where we going with this?

Speaker A

[laughter] I get it. It's aware. So you are the space of your experience. Mhm. Yes.

Speaker A

Yes. I guess I've and I'm all these beautiful people too. [laughter] Right. So you are aware.

Speaker A

Yeah. Always. Always you are aware without any doing. You are always always aware. You can't get rid of it. Try try not to be aware right now.

Speaker A

Well, I can go into a story and then separate from it all, but I don't do that.

Speaker A

Will you be aware of not aware in the way I'm aware now of the space?

Speaker A

But anyway, so yes, you are aware. I'm aware. You're not doing anything for that, right?

Speaker A

You say there's no starting point for that, right? You say it's in the body and it's also around.

Speaker A

That's what it feels like. Yes. Right. Yes. Can you get rid of that? No. How come?

Speaker A

How come? I mean, I could shut off from that and close in. Try your best. I want I don't want to. It feels so good to be [laughter] But I not I just also want a little aside. I don't want it to be all about

Speaker A

me. It'd be also nice if you wanted to dialogue with other people. But we could but we could finish.

Speaker A

[laughter] Not But we could finish. No, I'm not trying to escape this. Well, no, no, no. I I I want to complete this because it's it's a big one. But I also don't want to take up all the air in the

Speaker A

room. [laughter] What? You're not important enough? Yeah. No, I am. But I also have friends and I want them to um [laughter] we we'll get to that.

Speaker A

Okay, we'll get to that. We'll get to that. Okay, then we'll get to that.

Speaker A

Sure. Right. Great. All right. But I get what you're saying about awareness. What do you get?

Speaker A

I get that it's always here. I'm always here in awareness in the Right. So when I say to you that you meet your experience, you become the space in which your experience is met. So awareness is meeting experience.

Speaker A

So if there's a bump in the experience like something just not comfortable. Yeah. That we want to we just have to sit with that because that's part of the awareness, isn't it? [laughter] So talking.

Speaker A

Okay. Yes. All right. All right, I'll give you a little break. No, no, no. [laughter] I want to get that part because you're going to But you're going to get it. You're going to get it.

Speaker A

All right. Right. Right. So, what do you see so far? Is there anyone who who would like to Yeah, I want you.

Speaker A

Um either confirm what you're seeing or question or welcome. But please, one at a time.

Speaker A

Just one. Yeah. Because there's only one, right? The moment it starts going 1 2 3.

Speaker A

You Margarita's been paying I I appreciate you. Oh, well, you know, I have a question. I what what what I was drawn to about the description is I wanted to hear more about your story. Um, [laughter] you know, like which I and I very much get

Speaker A

the value of this for sure. And it's like stuff I go through all the time, right? the others in the room. And I guess what I would love to hear is more about what happened for you in that

Speaker A

prison. How did we did a whole hour interview on that 15 years ago, but basically she found that space that she's trying to get me to.

Speaker A

Exactly. I just want her to describe I just wanted to Well, I I I I I'm happy to, but we did a whole interview on that. So it's I feel like it kind of basically she was in prison. She was

Speaker A

tortured. She laid back and had this beautiful light moment where let's just say a shift in consciousness.

Speaker A

Whoever went in didn't come out. Um there's a whole there's a whole hour interview and I'm I'm happy to if there's space at the end to talk about that, but I'd really really like to offer the opportunity to take it into

Speaker A

the living of it if that's I I don't know. Maybe I'm wrong but I get a sense that people are more ready for I mean how many of you one second I asked this question how many of you already have the recognition

Speaker A

that I'm talking about 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 now we halfway she's like this [laughter] um you know we could not have when we spoke 15 years ago it was rare yeah Right. And that was my what began

Speaker A

as my art if you like was to bring people into that direct recognition in immediately in the moment directly but then to live that in daily life not as an experience of the moment but to actually shift and live from that is

Speaker A

something that you know I've been doing retreats for 26 years in with the integration of this all of this and more and more people now are more in a readiness for taking it on and living into it. So

Speaker A

because we're meeting like 15 years later, I just feel like we could go further than the recognition and the story.

Speaker A

Yeah. Yeah. I really feel like where you've come to with that idea of space is where people are right now.

Speaker A

became valid. But I think people are identifying this idea of pain as something that is harmful, right?

Speaker A

That it's that I don't want to I don't want to be there. But pain is just a response that something needs to be changed.

Speaker A

It's not bad or good. Yeah. It's in the reaction, the fear of what pain will feel like, but it's more so to the reaction of that and not sitting with it.

Speaker A

You know myself I'm a musician and I spent you're in music music music right spent 25 years trying to find the space between the notes which is more important than actually the notes this is zen idea but this is in Buddhism this

Speaker A

is core philosophy but to to be in that presence and to transduce that presence and people to feel that presence of the music you need to be be able to also be in that it can't be separate absolutely you you might want to have

Speaker A

conversation with Mike about that later. That's exactly what he does. And it's so it's so important and and when I feel like I'm in that space myself and and I know it's and we've been talking about this a lot, this idea of this the

Speaker A

pain body, if you want to call it that. Yeah. But it's so much more than that. It's about identity and it's about Yeah.

Speaker A

And it's those little things that sit Yeah. small little things, but we make this story.

Speaker A

Yeah. But it's so simple and it isn't it so like Alan is just demonstrating he's he's just showing a perfect demonstration of what goes on in our it's like he's animating that mechanism for everybody. Do you know what I mean? And

Speaker A

that's that's that's what you did 15 years ago as well. You know, you kind of I almost I almost feel like he's just playing it. No, but I know I'm getting reminded, let's just say.

Speaker A

No, but I almost feel like, you know, you're deeper than you let because I know that space even better than you know, you know, the space of creating drama.

Speaker A

Yeah. Please. Yeah. But so you get to this idea then what is self, right?

Speaker A

But then you also have to identify what not is self and you have to be in.

Speaker A

Sorry, could you say that slower? So we have we we identify what is self, what is awareness, true awareness, ground state of being, we call it that which we are.

Speaker A

But it's in the acknowledgement of not self and self in between self and not self is where the ground state exists.

Speaker A

You're going to lose me. You're going to lose me. And the notself self is he losing you as a no. as we come in or what this is about this idea that the space in between.

Speaker A

Could you could you say that again slower? Are you saying I say it back in these words and you tell me if I'm getting what you mean? You mean in the recognition of what one truly actually is as life itself?

Speaker A

Do you mean that? No. What do you mean? I see it the idea you you either to be Huh.

Speaker A

to be Yeah. or to become. You're always becoming something. Always being. But you you have to be in between being and becoming because otherwise how can you then identify with the ground state of being?

Speaker A

Could you come closer cuz I can see your eyes. I've got that light in my eyes come come to to to get you because the words are not making you we're always being and becoming always life is always being

Speaker A

life itself is always being and becoming life is always evolving right and from from my point of view life is what we are right so in the recognition of what I I am is the first thing we can ever say about

Speaker A

that's right what we are in the recognition of I am I amness is always being and becoming is that what you mean exactly right yeah okay so what's the next bit [laughter] well [snorts] then you be in between in

Speaker A

between being and becoming do you mean that you are Always both, right? Okay. But neither at the same time, right? Yeah.

Speaker A

Otherwise, you identify with something [clears throat] to be. Shakespeare said this to be or not to be. But that's not the question, right?

Speaker A

The question is is not to be or not to be, but be in between in between being and becoming. Because everything's always in this unfolding state of being, of awareness in everything. We've got so many people that are unfolding

Speaker A

awareness. Yes. But now I have a butt. Yes. Right. This is relevant when we come to the mind.

Speaker A

But it for as a mind's understanding, right? But when we meet directly as that, it's what we are is always always this and it's always always always evolving, right? And it's it's it's for me there's no in between.

Speaker A

Do you know what I mean? It just is. It just is. But I I don't really want to get into a discussion about you know I'd rather to if there are any qu if there's any question in that I'd rather like

Speaker A

work to bring about the direct seeing of that so that it just blows the mind over and over again you know just you're saying just to drop into that space.

Speaker A

Yeah. Well it's not this is more about being in presence. So you're you're you're describing that process, but this space is about being in it.

Speaker A

It is, you know, it's an endless it's an endless revelation of what already is.

Speaker A

So yeah, I mean although it's like it appears like we're all in different levels of understanding, we're all in different it's always always the same expression of life itself, right?

Speaker A

So yeah, I don't know if there there wasn't a question in that. Right. There was a question there somewhere.

Speaker A

[laughter] But if you find it let me know. But I would say drop the concepts being and becoming and yes, you're just here.

Speaker A

Well done, Alan. Okay. Thanks, coach. I knew I knew if I go over there, you're you're just like I knew it. I knew it. I knew it.

Speaker A

Well, it's obvious, right? [laughter] Exactly. Um, sorry, Sitica, you had your hand up. Just a question. Um when you were saying about meeting what's what's there and feeling it meeting you the experience of of the trigger of the trigger. Yeah.

Speaker A

Yeah. Yeah. Then I noticed that I have this sort of overlay of like okay well what do I meet it with and and do I um and this whole thing of that you know we are we are all love and that that love

Speaker A

permeates everything and I have to meet this experience no no it kind of thing that no okay good thank you because that's that's that can be a question for millions right so thank you the representative ative of that um way of

Speaker A

thinking. Right? So, you can only truly meet in the way that I'm talking about when you when you recognize who you really are.

Speaker A

You can only truly meet the experience. It's a true meeting of what is already free in you. the true meeting of of you as presence meeting experience. So when you start saying okay now I've got it's another part of

Speaker A

the mind another part of the small self who's trying to talk itself into how I'm going to meet this so that I can get rid of it. [laughter] You know, it's a kind of a business deal within the

Speaker A

within the mechanism of the same self, right? And this can only be met by direct experience. What is here to directly experience this moment?

Speaker A

Mhm. This moment right now. Your ass is on the seat. [clears throat] Your ass is on the seat. Yes. Can you feel it?

Speaker A

Can you get a feel of your ass on the seat? Right. Can you please all just feet go to your ass? Go to where your ass is.

Speaker A

Right. That's directly alive. You can't get any information from any other moment than directly right now. Your ass is on this seat. It is alive and it's direct. And nobody can tell you what that feels like. You have to go to your

Speaker A

own ass. Right. So, can you describe to me what it feels like? Your ass on this seat.

Speaker A

right now. This is This is yours. [laughter] Describe it. Is it hard? Is it soft?

Speaker A

It um it it feels a little bit achy now. I feel like I've Right. But you're starting to interpret.

Speaker A

Is it just direct? Direct. Is it directly before about it directly? Is it hard? Is it soft?

Speaker A

Yeah. Temperature hot. Right. So now you're in contact. Right. That's direct experience. So when you directly experience a feeling without interpreting what is needed, you go there and you directly experience without starting to describe.

Speaker A

You directly experience what is it in you that's directly experiencing your ass on the seat right now. What is that?

Speaker A

My sense of self, my awareness of self. Say again. My sense of self, my awareness of self is experiencing this.

Speaker A

So you say awareness of self. Can you leave the self out and just d experience that directly?

Speaker A

Yeah, that's what I'm talking about directly. M there's no need of a self in between, right? Do you need a self to go to where your ass is?

Speaker A

Yeah. Then I then I was saying but but only I can feel my ass and nobody else can feel my ass.

Speaker A

Yeah. But it's your ass. That's why, right? We don't want to [clears throat] Well, I can't speak for everyone, but even if you lost your memory Yeah.

Speaker A

and you couldn't tell me anything about your name, where you come from, anything about your life.

Speaker A

Could you still tell me how your ass is? [laughter] So, you don't need a sense of self to experience your ass on the seat.

Speaker A

Yeah. Mhm. Right. It's direct. Direct and immediate. So, if you get a trigger that hurts your heart, can you directly experience that?

Speaker A

without anything in between and then it's met without interpretation without going back and forward on what this means about me what it doesn't will it come back will blah blah blah it's direct and immediate in that direct eating that sensation that has waited

Speaker A

the whole lifelong just to be met just to be presented. It couldn't be presented in that little child that was going through some kind of difficulty and the parents were whatever busy couldn't present it.

Speaker A

Nobody told that child how to experience that feeling. So it developed a way of coping how to meet that feeling.

Speaker A

[clears throat] The coping mechanism is taking over everything in every relating in every story in every uh all it's waiting for is to be presented.

Speaker A

Yeah. I [clears throat] was just looking at my friend Neil there my good friend.

Speaker A

And I feel that he is love and and the personalities on all on top of the pure love that he is the pure giving that he wants to have in this world give the world and all the other stuff the personalities on top of

Speaker A

that love but I feel the love that of the being okay I have a question okay what is it what is it don't answer the question don't Answer the question. Go there. Go there directly. Go there.

Speaker A

What is it in you that knows that love? When you look at your friend, what is it? Go there.

Speaker A

Mhm. Go there. Yeah. What is that? It's my love that I'm feeling from that being who's does all these things because of of from the love and then the ego makes a story about why he does these things.

Speaker A

So but deeper than that you recognize love recognizes love. Love knows love right? Truth knows truth.

Speaker A

When you hear truth, there's a ringing bell in your system that just is truth.

Speaker A

Truth itself knows itself by itself. Right. Yeah. That's why we recognize each other, right?

Speaker A

[laughter] And that's why we're still in the recognition of what we have been since then. [laughter] So we we need to choose the truth over the lie, right? Will you choose the truth over the lie?

Speaker A

So just to linearly grasp grasp my head around what's being shared here, right? So you're saying that there is um a direct experience like you're you're as chair, right? And then when we when we grow up, we create all these different

Speaker A

types of tools in order to process exactly what's happening. And we create all these filters in order to feel that direct experience.

Speaker A

Could you go slower? Sorry. We get we we create all these filters in order to to translate what it feels like to have, for example, a direct experience like our ass on a chair rather than having the fact that if we

Speaker A

just drop into it, it's there no matter what. So are you saying what we need to do is come up with or release something so we don't have a filter around a direct experience.

Speaker A

Okay. Thank you. That that was fast but I think I got it right. So the only reason that I talk with SIDA about the direct experience and going to the ass is because of the question.

Speaker A

Without the question, I will not I there's no there's no reason. Without there being a question, there's no reason. Yeah. So, it's like for myself, I don't if I if I get a trigger or something, I don't go okay direct

Speaker A

experience or or talk myself into some process. It's just immediately because it's natural, you know. But that has to be had to be relearned in the system because of the habitual way to that's learned in the nervous system as it develops to protect

Speaker A

and defend and and not have to feel what it couldn't feel at 12 years old. the first heartbreak of the life 12, 13, the biggest rejection, you know, and then imagining like I my first heartbreak was 13 years old with the rejection of the

Speaker A

one I thought I was definitely going to marry for the rest of their life. And when when he did that, I did what I thought was normal, copied my parents, and went for a bottle of vodka. M so then that became what you do with

Speaker A

pain right so then we have those habits that we developed out of the belief of how to deal with pain through what we've seen and what we've been fed right so that had to be unlearned like the mechanism of escaping

Speaker A

feeling had to be oh no I don't do that you know it had to be directly met and in the beginning that took effort to just stay and stay and stay but a beautiful effort because it's the surrender.

Speaker A

It's the absolute surrender of the if we can call it ego self to fight and resist experience and try to make it different or like the surrendering of that and the falling into the pain. Actually, that's how I woke up in jail was falling into

Speaker A

the pain. I fell into it and through it and everything opened into the vastness where there was nobody ever in jail.

Speaker A

There was nobody in pain. So, I had to fall through it to open into where there is no one in pain. It was all gone. Right? So that's that's the doorway is to let go into the pain. It's the doorway.

Speaker A

Surrendering or is that Huh? Would you consider that surrendering? Well, yeah. I mean, it's it's a surrender if there's a fight.

Speaker A

If there's no resisting, yeah, there's no surrender. You get what I mean? Like now I don't experience it as a surrender, but who knows? Maybe I could. Yeah, if there was something really really challenging, I might say to myself, just

Speaker A

[ __ ] give it up and just for and immediately that's freedom. Yeah. And I care more about freedom than anything.

Speaker A

It's feeling it. That's just, you know, the feeling is the first doorway. And then once you've let go into it, the feeling's gone.

Speaker A

Yeah. Let me ask another question. Yes. So let's talk about heart and love, right? So first experience of love, fall in love with someone at age 13, nothing telling you how to love. It's just like, "Oh my god, this is it."

Speaker A

Heartbreaks. Now you have all these different parameters you start putting in to your life, but how you process love.

Speaker A

I absolutely remember at 13, I can actually remember the moment where I stood at the top of stairs. So, and I actually made the decision I will never let anyone in to that innocence again.

Speaker A

I [ __ ] remember that, you know? So, the question is cuz we um you've said meet it many times.

Speaker A

Yeah. But um how do you meet it? Uh do you do you have something real to work with?

Speaker A

Like let's say okay I also so I had a heartbreak, right? So well I divorced from my ex-wife 5 years ago. M and even though it wasn't so much of a heartbreak because it was a the gradual shifting from it, it was kind of this

Speaker A

codependency that I broke away from. Right. And having to reach Would you would you be willing to come over here so I could see your eyes?

Speaker A

Yeah. You want to sit? No. Here. Yeah. Um here you don't you can you can have a chair chair if you want. I just want to meet you.

Speaker A

Yeah. Yeah. Hi. Hello. Hi. It's my good friend Neil. And I I invite everyone to be here with yourself in the form of Neil, right? Cuz there really is truly no other.

Speaker A

And that's these are not just words. So that's the way I get to meet you as no other. Right. So you say that continue with what you were saying.

Speaker A

So before I I got with my ex-wife, I was 29 before we got together. I really didn't date too much before that. So, it was my first like this is everything.

Speaker A

I'm in love, you know, this is my life. And then when we separated, I started having this one thing that I created as a coping mechanism is your relationship means being trapped cuz I felt like I was trapped.

Speaker A

I know that one. So now I've had opportunities to be in some deep relationships and I have that avoidant thing as soon as it gets deeper because I feel like I'm going to be trapped in and but I know relationships should be

Speaker A

liberating. You should be free within it. Yes. So I know that one very well. Yeah. Anybody else knows that one?

Speaker A

Raise the hand. Raise the hand. You're not alone in that. Right. Yes. So the beautiful thing is that you are aware of it. All right, this is the first beautiful thing because if you're not aware of it, you

Speaker A

got no chance. You're only just going to put up the the thing now. You are aware of it, right? So do you believe do you believe it?

Speaker A

Do I believe what? That it's a trap. Trap. I I don't know because I didn't think I did until I got close enough with someone. Then all of a sudden I felt it, right?

Speaker A

And then I was like, "Wow, this is interesting." And I guess it's because I feel like this would not be liberating. But I knew that that relationship with that person would have been a free one, liberating one. So I knew it was 100% me that was

Speaker A

projecting. Relationships are being trapped. Okay. Did you leave the relationship? Which one? The one the trap. Yeah.

Speaker A

The we we dated three four times and then we decided we had a conversation if we're going to take it further and then I said no.

Speaker A

You escaped. Yeah. Right. Yeah. You glad you escaped? Actually, I don't know. Yes and no. You [laughter] know, I don't think I'm ready for anything yet, but at the same time, like so perhaps.

Speaker A

Mhm. Perhaps that was just there for you to become more aware of that mechanism. Right?

Speaker A

So now you are more aware of that and you're seeing it that it's becoming your own trap.

Speaker A

Right. You're becoming trapped by the trap. Right. Right. So [snorts] what do you love more than anything?

Speaker A

So much though. Now what do you love? What's your ultimate love in this life? What do you a thing? It could be anything.

Speaker A

Like what's your highest value? Highest value cuz if it's a love like do I love like an item or a thing or doing something or for example my highest value is freedom, love truth.

Speaker A

Um I would say integrity. Integrity. Yeah. Right. So this is your highest value, right?

Speaker A

Yeah. So if you make the deal with yourself that no matter what, you are going to be honest, honest, honest, honest, honest every step of the way about everything with everyone.

Speaker A

Can you make that commitment to yourself? It's the first commitment is to yourself. Yeah. Can you make that commitment?

Speaker A

Yes. So the moment you really truly make that commitment, you move to another frequency, another vibration in yourself where you are committing. You're marrying the embodiment. You're you're you're committing to the embodiment of honesty, truth, and authenticity.

Speaker A

All right? Let this be your first love affair. Right? Now your ultimate love affair you are in. Right? And then if and when an attraction point comes, you enter into it with this first commitment.

Speaker A

Regardless of what telling the truth and being authentic and open and honest results it will bring, you are committed to that as your first love. All right.

Speaker A

That is going to attract a match that whatever she he whatever has to go through in that process will be perfect.

Speaker A

All right. And so the moment that you the thing starts playing, you put your cards on the table and you start to share. you know, I'm starting to sense I'm wanting to pull away and hide. I'm wanting to escape.

Speaker A

I'm want to this. I'm wanting to that. You're putting it on the table and you've already started to change the pattern by owning up and putting it out in the open and it's all getting more vulnerable.

Speaker A

Right? That makes sense. So like this step by step by step you start to embody who you really truly are.

Speaker A

This will change everything. You know I I wouldn't be able to play those games anymore.

Speaker A

Hence I'm alone. [laughter] You know [snorts] I can't play any kind of games. Mhm.

Speaker A

So the more that we embody the truth of of what we recognize and what we live, it it has to move through our whole world of relating.

Speaker A

Yeah. And you will get to meet the pain that you haven't met. And that's a gift.

Speaker A

That's so true because I did make a decision to start being honest. And that's what that last conversation was was me not falling into relationships because every relationship was not dictated by me if I wanted to be in it.

Speaker A

I just said okay, you know, and for the first time I had to really like took a lot out of me. We had like three calls before I could even say I want to be in a relationship.

Speaker A

But then afterwards I felt so much better because I was like so honest where where I was.

Speaker A

You freed yourself in the past. You would avoid it. Micro things that I share about myself and then that's what ends up balling into a snowball 10 years later that results in us not being able to be exactly who recognizes this.

Speaker A

Yeah. How many of you are 100% totally authentic in your relating world? Wonderful. [laughter] What are you doing?

Speaker A

Most of the time. Wonderful. How many of you would love to be? Mhm. Yes.

Speaker A

Oh. Oh. Yeah. That's that's freeing when you can really truly be with yourself as one. It's the it's it's the best.

Speaker A

Yeah. Yeah. And then the the relationship becomes the vehicle in which emptying out happens.

Speaker A

emptying out of all of the the stuff you don't that's weighing you down that's keeping you trapped. That's the trap actually.

Speaker A

Yeah, that's the trap, you know. So when when we enter relationship and it doesn't need to be a love affair, romance, it can be any relationship in any friendship. Yeah.

Speaker A

If we enter that with this is a vehicle to empty out, we're already it's already we already got everything.

Speaker A

We're already in love. Yeah. Yeah. It's true. And I don't want to get into relationship. You know how a lot of times people put their best foot forward and then sometimes you might just like show the best version of yourself

Speaker A

beforehand. Hang on, hang on, hang on. And I have a question before you go any further.

Speaker A

Yeah, tell me. What are you afraid of? What I'm afraid of? Yeah. Apart from the trap in regards with relationships.

Speaker A

Yeah. From what you're afraid of in that world of relationship. We're not just talking about like a romantic partner. We're talking any what you're afraid of.

Speaker A

Um Oh, it's definitely being seen. It's definitely being um judged, not being loved. Yeah. seeing seeing you know what would they see at childhood you know I was told a lot that I was not not a good kid and now

Speaker A

I'm basically taken into a lot of relationships with friends and family right and u relationships whereas I think they're going to see the ugly side of me even though if I logically look at it there's not really that

Speaker A

so it's a sense of self that is afraid to for the warts to be seen for the what?

Speaker A

Warts. Warts. Yeah. Yeah. Exactly. You know the warts, right? [ __ ] what a freedom to just be yourself. [laughter] What a And have someone love you.

Speaker A

Be yourself. Just be yourself because what you are is an expression of and I use the word God without making something out there in the sky. But godliness is the essence of every all living beings. That's what we are.

Speaker A

That's what we what we're an expression of. Right. Right. And that's not to convince anyone. I'm not telling you how it is.

Speaker A

You know that in the depth of what you are. You know that you are you are a direct connection with the mind and of God. The mind and the creation.

Speaker A

Whatever created you, you must be of that. Mhm. Whatever created this magnificent form couldn't create something other than itself.

Speaker A

It's one thing knowing that, it's another thing implementing it. It's another thing being that in life.

Speaker A

And this is the invitation of what we're calling awakening, embodying, and living. Right? This is the invitation. And nothing less will do.

Speaker A

As long as we are not uh making that the commitment of our life, like as long as we're not living into that, there'll always be something missing. Apparently, apparently there's nothing missing in what you actually are.

Speaker A

There's nothing missing until you can really really truly just be yourself. There's nothing missing. Yeah. But for as long as you cannot and you held back waiting for the outside to tell you you're okay or you're worthy or you're not or you're

Speaker A

this or that you're that, there'll always be a sense of something missing, you know.

Speaker A

And it's my experience through working with thousands of people directly and intimately that when we truly truly meet and we take an honest direct clear look, not because I tell you so, but because we look together and you see for yourself, there is nothing

Speaker A

missing in the truth of what you are. But don't believe me. No. But you know beyond all that stuff that you do you know the puress that you are.

Speaker A

Can you feel that more now than ever? Yeah. It's definitely a journey of salon but definitely more than last year.

Speaker A

[laughter] Right. But even more I think the essence is there. I mean I feel it. a sense that it's not [bell] not more than it's it's just I feel it just is in you and you and maybe you're getting to recognize it when you

Speaker A

say more than ever but it just is there. Thank you Neil. Yeah. Thank you.

Speaker A

Thank you. Yeah. Thank you. Yeah. Yes. Um Henrietta Henrietta. Yes. What what's your name?

Speaker A

Ananta. Ananta. Well, thank you so much for everything you shared. You're very welcome. Um, this meeting directly, I 100% agree with you that that's the key. That is the key because otherwise you're lying, right?

Speaker A

Even if it's small and it doesn't have a huge amount of weight, it's still uncomfortable and it feels off. And I think all of our as you say essence soul knows that. So I just wanted to share that because I've been practicing this

Speaker A

exact thing which is not easy especially in the trigger moments. Yeah. So whether it's work so colleagues, family, somebody that you love, you know, in a romantic way um whatever it is, whatever relationship because life every day has

Speaker A

a million scenarios. Yeah. So you're talking about meeting each one. Well, you know, in the beginning it may be experience that you have to meet each one in the beginning, but once it becomes the new default, there's no movement away.

Speaker A

You're just with it. You're just directly experiencing life. So, could I share a technique that I've done just I don't know if it's because one of the things with maybe you should come closer because I don't know if your voice is being picked

Speaker A

up by the mics. We have we have people on YouTube with with us. Okay.

Speaker A

So, because like many just know that you're in front of the camera and it's on YouTube. I want you to know that for your own privacy.

Speaker A

Well, this will be put later on but it will be on YouTube. Isn't it live now? I couldn't get not live. We're going to broadcast it later.

Speaker A

Yeah, but it's Oh, you couldn't get it live? I sent out links to everyone to join on. I Well, it will come online.

Speaker A

Otherwise, I I would have opened Zoom. Yeah, lots of people. I'm so sorry. Okay. I didn't Was there a live Zoom here? I think it's too late. It's too late now.

Speaker A

No, there was no live internet. That would have been good. I believed it was.

Speaker A

Yeah. Just cuz then we're people. Yeah. Yeah. So, um, because I'm a very sensitive and emotional and quite dramatic person that tells stories sort of for a living, whether it's theater, writing, and and I'm a lover of story and word

Speaker A

and you know, we we speak, we listen, that's how we relate as humans. So, I've been practicing this thing because I identified that all my pain I didn't I couldn't name it. I actually didn't know what it was often.

Speaker A

So, I've been practicing practicing this thing of naming it without attaching a story to it. So, that when you were talking about to to Allan his trigger point and and you got to the you know what were you feeling? So, I've been

Speaker A

practicing that of just going like abandonment, fear, whatever it is sort of and but that's really I just wanted to say that that's really helped me be in that direct truth that you're talking about meeting it.

Speaker A

So, no story. So, but I'm so used to like a lot of us I'm sure telling the story but you don't really know what you're feeling what it is.

Speaker A

Right. But that's that's what I was um pointing to when I when I said the core wound. Yeah, you know the core wound is always going to be unworthiness, abandonment, uh fear.

Speaker A

Um fear is fear is not actually the core wound. Fear is a the next layer up right usually something like yeah it's it's like if we the the threeyear-old the three four year old before you know the identity is really

Speaker A

set in when it's when it's developing the cognition of I am I am whatever the name is and the world is I'm a world by myself the environment the cognition is now making what's in the environment um all mean something

Speaker A

about me because the whole world revolves around me me right it's all about me the as soon as that child has gone from being all of wonder like just being the [snorts] identity is being formed into it's mine everything's about me

Speaker A

right so now everything that's happening in the environment means something about me so if mommy daddy's too busy or you you know they're depending on many factors but the cognition will then take on one of those they worked it out

Speaker A

that they're like 12 basic core wounds that you can find every single human that comes down to so it's helpful to know which one you know cuz I was just when you were talking so what's your deepest what do you experience again and again

Speaker A

rejection and what does that mean about you when you're rejected? What does it mean about me? Yeah.

Speaker A

Um, what do you make that mean about you if you're rejected? That I should be alone.

Speaker A

Um, that wouldn't be a core wound. So, or that I am alone. There's something deeper than that.

Speaker A

Oh, that no one How do you feel about yourself when you're rejected? You're unwanted.

Speaker A

Yes, you're unwanted. So, you're not good enough. Yeah. Right. Right. And how does that feel?

Speaker A

Sad. Can you go there right now? How that feels? Yeah. Yeah. Can you just go there and just be here for it? Can you just be here for it? Just directly be here for it.

Speaker A

All it ever has ever ever needed is to be presented. But that's what I'm saying. I need to name it.

Speaker A

Mhm. Otherwise, I Mhm. I'm not sure what it is. Well, that's okay. You've named it.

Speaker A

Yeah. Yeah. So if one to do that in sort of life you know on a daily basis it's helpful to to then move through whatever you find your way do your way you do you right but she's getting you to do it now

Speaker A

if you want to do it now you can do it you know just meet this moment just meet this moment as it is just meeting it will reveal everything to you in the true meeting always when we come into a true

Speaker A

meeting all gets revealed and so that's the feeling of freedom that you well speaking about what I'm speaking no what I'm speaking about is that's the doorway because the moment you are no longer into in resistance to experience

Speaker A

you you disappear as a separate as a separate entity to what is being experienced so then there is only experience Right. So when letting go in this in in my system, I didn't go, "Oh, I'm going to meet it so that I can be free." There

Speaker A

was none of that. There was none of that. Brain. No, no, no, no, no. I just fell into the pain and was because I had had a lot of um I had a lot of experience of um prior to that I'd done a lot of body

Speaker A

work. I was going to ask you about prior prior to that I was in Osho uh field you know I was in total surrender to truth I'd already taken on a master I'd already taken on a you'd already had a very strong

Speaker A

spiritual Oh yeah [clears throat] before that oh yeah but I hadn't I was still identified I yes I'd had satis But I had disappeared.

Speaker A

Ego was still who I thought I was. Even though I was witnessing it or even though I was knowing myself as the witnessing presence of it all, I was still there. I was greatly suffering in prison. Greatly suffering to a point

Speaker A

that I wanted to die. And that's the whole point you know is that when we many of you may have touched those feelings of not suicidal but it was the only time I ever experienced it was in jail that I

Speaker A

didn't want to live anymore. Right? I was in solitary confinement for a long time and I was taken to a factory.

Speaker A

So now you're getting it. I I was taken to a factory on a daily basis to work on machines and I had no idea when I would get out of there. So I was just in a hell realm.

Speaker A

Did you speak to yourself? Did you speak out loud? You can't speak out loud only in your under covers. [laughter] That wasn't allowed.

Speaker A

No, absolutely not. You cannot meet the eyes of another. So you really suffering suffering?

Speaker A

Yes. But I was taken to a factory. No, no contact. But I was taken to a factory with 50 others to work on machines.

Speaker A

So I was in a space with 50 others, everyone in silence. Right. And no eye contact.

Speaker A

No eye contact only to pass the work or do you felt like dying because it is well there's a lot there was a lot more to it. You know I was within silence a lot happens.

Speaker A

Yeah. There's a lot going on in silence. Actually there's another language to be heard in silence.

Speaker A

And in that language was where um brutality was happening between prisons doing life and all that kind of stuff, you know. So the cruelty and the violence that was happening in that silence couldn't be seen but it could be felt.

Speaker A

So in that I was in immense suffering and I didn't know when I get out of it.

Speaker A

You don't have a date. You didn't. No. So, it was a long period of that and then through exhaustion. It came through sheer exhaustion. I was completely and utterly exhausted to fight to resist my experience.

Speaker A

So, one night it's beautiful. We're back to No, no, it's beautiful. We went This is what we went through in our 15 years.

Speaker A

I got something when you did say it to me. if you I mean so all right so I'm in my cell and it's like we're doing a loop but I'm in my cell and I [ __ ] had enough of trying

Speaker A

to change my experience right I was just done I was exhausted and you're not allowed to lean against the wall you got to stay on your knees to a certain time in the evening before you can lay down

Speaker A

in the bed so when that time came. Normally I would just read a page or two of Osho. I had Osho books, right?

Speaker A

Normally I would just read a page or two and be drinking it and going deeply there. But this night I nothing. I just laid back on the bed.

Speaker A

And when I laid back, letting go just the exhaustion, the body hit the thing and letting go, my consciousness just started dropping and dropping and dropping into excruciating pain. It was excruciating.

Speaker A

Every bit of my muscles, my body was hurting from working. So I was there in this excruciating without resisting breathing into it and I drop deeper and then breathing into it and drop deeper but I didn't have any idea I'll keep doing

Speaker A

this and then I'll be free. It just was happening. So I was very used to cranial circle.

Speaker A

Maybe some of you know cranial circle. So I knew that unwinding and I knew that dropping to stillness. So this dropping happening and I was breathing into the thing. The pain was opening dropping deeper and then I was watching the body stop

Speaker A

unwinding unwinding. I was following it and a moment came where it all opened and this can happen in any moment that I work with you. It can happen in any [ __ ] moment that the opening happens beyond the body. Like the the

Speaker A

body was no more. I it was it was like I I interpreted in my mind the next day that I'd dropped I'd entered a doorway cuz it felt like I'd dropped into a vastness that opened and opened and

Speaker A

opened and opened and opened and opened and opened and opened and opened and opened into pure pure pure pure pure light and just kept on opening and now I was [ __ ] in freedom and the only thought was what's Yes.

Speaker A

And I kept going in freedom, freedom, freedom, freedom. I was no more. There was no more prison. There was no more me in prison. There was no more anything.

Speaker A

And it start turning into bliss. And that kept going and going and going. And I stayed all night like that. And the next morning when I got up, normally the incessant mind looking at the calendar trying to work out when I might

Speaker A

[ __ ] get out of here. There was no interest in that. I just looked through the bars on the I didn't see the bars. I saw the sun coming up over the mountain. I saw the trees and I

Speaker A

saw freedom. And I was just here. And the mind had stopped running here, there, and everywhere. When they came to unlock me, to march me into the thing, I just found it all so amusing inside. There was a smile.

Speaker A

It was just all like, "Oh, I'm a prisoner in a thing." Like, "Oh, I'm in a gray uniform. I'm marching." And you get counted eight times a day. And so now they're like each knee s sheet and you're all the

Speaker A

heads turn like that like go in a row each sound sheet all the heads and I was just like laughing like what what what a joke all this you know like all this like what are they doing and so

Speaker A

I started to I found something inside that they couldn't take totally right and that transcended That was smiling.

Speaker A

And that was a smile that couldn't be taken. And it was the only thing that couldn't be taken cuz everything else was taken.

Speaker A

And you still have that now. That [laughter] I am that. You are that. Yes.

Speaker A

It's gone. It stayed with you. It I am that. Okay. Where can it go?

Speaker A

Where can it go? But you had that moment where you realize you're that and you've always Yeah.

Speaker A

Right. Where can it go? I don't know. I haven't gotten that yet. No one can steal that. No one can steal that cannot be taken. Nothing can be t that cannot be taken. [clears throat] Right? So there is a part of you when

Speaker A

I'm working with people I always like I I started working with people about 3 4 years after I was out and at that time not many people were ready for direct recognition and direct awakening right it was all people were on a path and

Speaker A

blah blah blah blah blah. So I started to do this thing, this direct inquiry that would bring people into direct seeing. And um the questions that just started coming through me were like, you know, I ask you, is there any part of you that is not

Speaker A

hurt? When that trigger goes off and all of that rejection about they don't want you as a presenter, is there any part of you that doesn't care anyway?

Speaker A

Yeah, of course. Where is where is that part? It's deeper than the part that is to serve.

Speaker A

Can you go there right now? Yeah, I've been I've been actually traveling there [laughter] when you were talking.

Speaker A

Right. So, right now, can you keep eye contact with me for a moment cuz I really want to take this back to you.

Speaker A

Yeah. So, so can you go there right now? that in you that doesn't care anyway if you're a presenter or not. Right. Right.

Speaker A

So attached to my stay with me. Stay with me. [laughter] Stay. Okay. Stay. Right.

Speaker A

Is that good enough? That part is which part good enough? [laughter] Is there any part in you that doesn't need to be good enough or not good enough?

Speaker A

Yeah. When I can Where is it? Find it. It's right here everywhere. Find it. What is it made of?

Speaker A

Me being Go there and talk from it. What is it made of? Forever existence.

Speaker A

I don't know what it's how far away is love from that. I is love, but I'm not calling it love.

Speaker A

I could see it in in Neil or these people. But does it need anything? No, it doesn't need anything.

Speaker A

Does it need to be a presenter? No, it doesn't need anything. Does it need validation?

Speaker A

No. No. I mean, I I I keep getting this interception in there and that um so this is what is to meet the wound. M so from direct knowing there's there's an aspect of you that there's even no

Speaker A

question of being good enough or not good enough because how could God or whatever we want to call consciousness or source or whatever we want to name it. It's free of any name you name it anyway. It doesn't give a [ __ ] what you name it.

Speaker A

It's already free of all names. It's nameless. Right? So, how could that ever not be enough?

Speaker A

Yeah. Right. Right. I I So, where is that in you? I can see it in Neil.

Speaker A

Only Neil. You're the lucky one. [laughter] You're the lucky one. I I can feel it in me. If I only in Neil.

Speaker A

Well, I I I I see that reflection there. I see it in you for sure.

Speaker A

Thank you. Ah yeah that's right but my I ah I have to let go of it you know I have to completely let go of it but there is an a a a sense of me that wants to remind you

Speaker A

no no of your own knowing you you you are reminding me of your own knowing because you already know.

Speaker A

Yes I I know what you mean. I do already know. You do already know.

Speaker A

Yes. Yeah I do. And I I I I It's just a habit of thought.

Speaker A

Yeah. Yeah. And And it's a play, right? It's a play. It's a drama. You do already know.

Speaker A

Yeah. You do already know. Yeah. Thank you. Yeah. Is it too boring? I think that's what you said to me 15 years ago. You said you said, "Yeah, it's nice, but I like I like the play too much. I like the

Speaker A

No, no, it's I It's not boring, but it it it's it's like being an alcoholic. You want to drink that to disconnect from the addiction.

Speaker A

It's an addiction to ego self story. Addiction to suffering. No, it's not suffering. Can I ask a question related to this, please?

Speaker A

All right. So, if these things are coming up for people, including what Alan's sharing right now.

Speaker A

Oh, you're talking to me. I can't see because the eyes are the light is well done by the way getting those lights up.

Speaker A

Yeah. This is coming up for Alan. Oh, sorry. Henrietta, was that done? Okay. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

Speaker A

So, ultimately like what could you could you start the question again? I miss I'm going to start with different words at the beginning. So, ultimately I feel like what does what do I want? I want to be happy, right? I want to live

Speaker A

a good life. And so when we have these things come up and sometimes we might be like, you know, we're not seen. Um we feel unworthy and then they come and go where it might take a few days.

Speaker A

But is your default setting still that you're good and you're happy with yourself in your life?

Speaker A

Isn't that like the deeper meaning of it, the deeper root? So does it even matter if we have to confront this specificity? I would say it's not even that you're deep, you're good and all that. That's also on the top of

Speaker A

everything that you are. There's something forget deep and good and all. It's what you're saying to me is that the essence of you is all that without having to remind yourself of it. The reason why I asked that is because from

Speaker A

my experience of you Yeah. is that you are a pretty um happy content person that that makes people feel good and and moves through the world feeling good himself.

Speaker A

I feel most of the time I feel pretty good even when these things come up.

Speaker A

Maybe is that something that we can like you can go back to or an individual can go back to? Is that Wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait. What do you mean go back to like to as the as to as the foundation

Speaker A

that that this is who I really am. I'm a person that walks in the world with love and Yes.

Speaker A

Yeah. But you know if the bump comes up for me that's in the way of me going back to there.

Speaker A

There is no there is no problem. I don't have a problem with triggers. Triggers are welcome. They're just part of experiencing humanness.

Speaker A

Right. So if humanness is happening, triggers are happening. So what? What does that mean about me? It mean [ __ ] all. I just experience it and tell the truth in the middle of it. Thank you very much. So what already gone?

Speaker A

Right. You're not letting him. There's no carrying. Doesn't say anything about you. These triggers.

Speaker A

How I mean it what it would could say about me is is only in like how I'm how I meet it. If I meet it in truth, what the [ __ ] does it mean?

Speaker A

It doesn't mean make it mean it's um mean it in truth. So what is the truth you [clears throat] with that I am love?

Speaker A

Who I am who I am a direct meeting. By the way, in case any of you interested, I made a three-part training series called Meet the Trigger. And that that link is in the description of all my videos. You

Speaker A

can get that if you want to. You I went really really really into all this. Um, but it's triggers are not a problem. And they they are also going to be the result of say you're tired and you're

Speaker A

stressed and you didn't get enough sleep and you've done something in your diet and you're not feeling well. You're more easily triggered, right? You're more easily, especially if you've been drinking alcohol and then the next day you got a bit of a hangover. Just an

Speaker A

example, right? You're more easily triggered. So the nervous system is what is triggered. If you identify with that identification, that is your suffering. But you do not need to identify with identification.

Speaker A

Yeah. Your identity is being touched. Your identity is being touched. You do not need to identify with that.

Speaker A

Well, that was the beautiful part of the conversation we had those years ago. When you got out of prison, you saw on the outside everybody was in prison in their mind. They were they were more in prison running all over the place looking for

Speaker A

something. But and you and and more than the people in prison they were in prison because they were doing it for themselves.

Speaker A

I think what I said and was what I first saw was that the the the guards in the prison were actually the prisoners.

Speaker A

You know that's how I started seeing it. It shift round. I was looking at them when they were screaming screaming at me. I was looking at a prisoner, you know, and I had the audacity to tell one of

Speaker A

them [laughter] what happened? Well, it was just me and her in that moment, nobody else around. So, she looked through the hatch to tell me cuz I was leaning against something or something like that. And I said, "You,

Speaker A

me, bye-bye." [laughter] Cuz it's all Japanese, right? So, it has to be sign language. I said you I go bye-bye bye. I was very close to getting out.

Speaker A

But then when you got outside and saw the people in the streets. Yeah. They're running everywhere. Well, where are they going? They're all running everywhere trying to sort something out, figure something out.

Speaker A

Like where are they? What's going on here? Like take me back somehow. [laughter] take me back in my you know now now for the first time in three years activations in the nervous system started happening like triggers the

Speaker A

first time in 3 years but the first time in a long time once I got cuz I there's no relationship in prison at all absolutely none if you are not relating all your roles disappear right if if there is no male there is no

Speaker A

female If there is no brother, there's no sister. Example, if there is no parent, there is no daughter. If there all those roles that we play in relationship were gone cuz there's no one to relate with. So there's only being aware now

Speaker A

only that all the time. All the time all the time. So now when coming out and landing in England, suddenly there's a father. I need to be a daughter.

Speaker A

[sighs and gasps] The daughter's coming back into I watched it come back into form who she is in relation to a father.

Speaker A

Then when you know it took a few months before I could even look in the eyes of a man and becoming a female. Oh, look how she plays. M you know I watched the whole thing reform itself and come on board and I could see I'm

Speaker A

not that. So therefore there was identification all arising and identification in reaction to things but I am not identified with that.

Speaker A

Right? So he's all still there but I'm not getting idently that's that's not me. That's all mechanisms all built uh but now how do I stop playing out those pushpull manipulations I have to step in and tell the truth in those moments

Speaker A

for that to decondition. Well that's what the triggers are. It's a it's a mechanism. It's not real. It's a mechanism that I'm and it's the nervous system and it's a mechanism.

Speaker A

It's a mental and it's a neuropathway to the brain. It's also just um it's it's it's a habit.

Speaker A

Thank you. Thanks, Neil. I mean, yeah, I can see it's a mechanism, whatever you want to call it.

Speaker A

Right. Right. Right. Yeah. So, but it it's a gift actually that whatever your experience in London Mhm.

Speaker A

It's a gift that you got rejection or whatever it was. It's a gift because it it's an opportunity to how are you going to move through that? Will you move through it in the same way that you move through it the last hund times

Speaker A

or will you meet it differently? And how would that how would that be differently? By just seeing it as a we are sitting here walking right through that. You know that's there's no mistake that 2 days later we're sitting

Speaker A

here having this conversation and you willingly put it on the table. Well, I thought what is really up for me, you know, so that's, you know, yeah, that's honesty. That's authenticity.

Speaker A

That sounds like too ego minor, you know, like, you know, no, how valuable is that what, you know, they know what I'm talking about, right, with with Richard and all that. Yeah.

Speaker A

Yeah. Yeah. Anyway, it's not Oh, you mean they know the drama. Yeah. Right. But no, uh, yeah. I know. I'm glad because I want to, you know, if you want check what's up for you. So you check your body. You check how's your

Speaker A

body feel? What's what's what keeps coming up in the mind that's coming. So you can take that to bed with you.

Speaker A

Okay. Right. And in your quiet moments when those things start moving in your thing, you can explore. Let it be an exploration. It's not once and done.

Speaker A

Yeah. It's an exploration of how do you meet yourself? Well, I'm feeling really good now. I feel like it's like very distant.

Speaker A

I can call it back, but it's No, I'm not suggesting. No, I know you're not, but I'm just saying I'm not suggesting that.

Speaker A

But right now, everything's pretty good. [laughter] I'm with good friends and people on this like kind of journey we've all been on together.

Speaker A

Are these all your friends? Like, do you know them from before? this beautiful woman and these and Henrietta and Margarit and everyone's my friend really [laughter] except except the guy in London who Right. [laughter] Yeah, that bastard.

Speaker A

Yes, exactly. [laughter] No, but yeah, like Neil's right. Most people I like and I'm happy and then you know there's bumps, right? We all get bumps a little bit.

Speaker A

It's such a beautiful freedom when when we meet those moments of of you know where that sort of situation where we're not invited into something that we would like to be valued in and and that that kind of rejection. It it's such a a

Speaker A

beautiful opportunity to just see where we are and see what's left there to to resolve what like the 2-year-old might Yeah. It doesn't mean anything about you.

Speaker A

Even if it really really hurts, it doesn't mean anything about who you are. Right. Unless you want it, unless you make it mean it.

Speaker A

When you recognize who am I? Who am I directly? Mhm. Do not make what you think, what you feel, what you experience mean anything about who you are.

Speaker A

That's what freedom is, right? Cuz anything we make, it's a lie. Anything you think, it's a lie.

Speaker A

Anything you experience, [snorts] what did I say? What you think, what you feel, what you experience. anything you feel, even if you feel oh so sad and rejected, don't make that mean something about you, right? Cuz I'm making that I'm I'm I'm,

Speaker A

you know, wounding myself over and over. Yeah. Because then we add a layer and say, "Well, I shouldn't be feeling that.

Speaker A

I should be more awakened and more free and more evolved. I shouldn't be feeling that." And then that adds [snorts] a layer of super ego on top of it.

Speaker A

Or just that I'm not good enough. I'm my my own story about it. Is it true?

Speaker A

Right. Are you good enough? Are you good enough? I in this moment I'm pretty good.

Speaker A

Are you good enough? I I don't know. Good enough for what? I mean yes.

Speaker A

Exactly. Oh, yeah. Right. Right. Right. Right. Right. So, yeah, we can always make up story, but we don't have to. You're saying, I mean, of course, you're not saying that, [laughter] but it's just a story. It's just the meaning we impose and it's

Speaker A

meaningless because but it it it doesn't become meaningless until it's met otherwise it's it's given great meaning is it tells who we are you know yeah actually so how soon after you had that experience how how much longer were you in prison

Speaker A

after that about nine months wow And was it just more bearable the entire time?

Speaker A

Absolutely. Wow. I was I was quite disappointed when I was told I was getting out. [laughter] Really? You were disappointed?

Speaker A

I was like, "What?" No. Cuz you were having such a good time, right? Well, I wasn't having such a good time.

Speaker A

Not at all. But I had hidden something in my pocket that I was shocked because when I when they told me cuz they don't tell you. It's just you know that on a Monday morning when the phone rings

Speaker A

they point to a couple of foreigners and they go you you you take off your head thing take the thing and those foreigners never come back so you know that's how what happened you don't know what happens after that moment

Speaker A

and I knew it would be one Monday morning and what happened was I um I didn't sleep for a couple of years I could not sleep in there And um so I in the night I used to just astral travel.

Speaker A

That was what was happening. I didn't try to that's what was happening. I'd go everywhere.

Speaker A

And um at a certain point someone told me you can get a sleeping pill from the from the they call them sensei means teacher.

Speaker A

It's the guard. So I thought, "Oh." So I asked, "Can I get a sleeping pill?" And they came to give it to me, but they want to watch you drink it.

Speaker A

So they give it to me and they give me the cup of water. And I I put it in my mouth and I went, "But I only swallowed it to there." And then when I walked away, I coughed it back up, broke it

Speaker A

into pieces, and just only took a little bit. Oh, right. So I took a little bit and I could sleep a bit. was I noticed that in the morning I was feeling like not so sharp, not so I was so aware and so

Speaker A

before the sleeping pill. Yeah. Yeah. And it was making me feel like that. So I used to get them once a week, cough it up, break it in pieces and on a Sunday afternoon take like a bit. So I'd have a nice

Speaker A

Sunday afternoon, [laughter] you know. And so I would hide the rest because they search your cell all the time and they pat you down and everything. So I would hide the rest folded up in a tissue in my top pocket

Speaker A

which you used to go to the toilet. It was folded in there. And when they said take off your thing, take the thing. I was no cuz I knew they were going to take everything and go through it all. You

Speaker A

know, so in that moment, I made a deal with God. [laughter] And what was the deal?

Speaker A

I made a deal, you know, cuz they they took they took me and put me in a holding cell. They go in a holding cell for 15 days where they check absolutely everything.

Speaker A

Mhm. And um I made a deal when I was being taken that just let me get away with this that they don't find it.

Speaker A

Right. And I will never touch drugs again. Oh wow. And they did. And you got through it in the Well, it wasn't just in that one. It was also in tissues in my cell, right?

Speaker A

So I had to get them. I had to be able to get them. And um when they brought everything into the checking room, the I saw them piled on the desk and then I just stand there like that and I went sensei toilet

Speaker A

and I just grabbed the things and cuz I always wanted to go to the toilet, right?

Speaker A

And I took them and straight down the toilet and Wow. And that was that.

Speaker A

I've never told that story. Good movie. I've never told that story. Now it was on [ __ ] YouTube.

Speaker A

[laughter] Well, now it's all out. They don't listen, but it's 30 years ago. Is there any I'm getting what you're Is there anything else anyone wants to say?

Speaker A

Anything you want to say? Anything left? How do How do you feel about I'm just curious.

Speaker A

I feel really amazing just being here just everything. It's It's hitting places in you.

Speaker A

Yeah. Yeah. I'm just thinking cuz you haven't been to these kind of things before right?

Speaker A

U 20 years. Amazing. But that's great. That's great. Yeah. It's very practical in a way. [laughter] It is.

Speaker A

It's the first time I've heard that. What do you think, Jessica? What do I think about this evening?

Speaker A

Oh, I like being in the presence with everybody, right? She's not thinking. She's very present. Do you think moments were bits and pieces cuz there's been some other things that have been stories and experiences that have been coming up

Speaker A

and you know moving recently cuz um we've [snorts] been all around a lot of very present people um the last confus as well. So when you're with a lot of other people who are already very involved it's a different space to when you're

Speaker A

more in that role of service. Exactly. Whether it be Yeah. We all most people in this room probably deal with lives of service at some level even in an everyday job. So we still are serving and assisting people and you can do it consciously

Speaker A

unconsciously. But when you're with really conscious people in that space it's a it's a different exchange there in in the air.

Speaker A

Yeah. In the air itself, right? There's an intensity in the space itself. The space is alive. The space is not dead. And this is always always here.

Speaker A

But how often is it noticed? It's overlooked because we are so busy in D. It's overlooked.

Speaker A

It's always always always here. Right. Right. And that Yeah. That is no different than what you actually are.

Speaker A

No. It's a gift when we get to be in that with other people when we actually get to That's what satsang is.

Speaker A

Yeah. You know, that is what satang is. Community. Yeah. Amazing. And it's really lovely to see. I always love seeing people unfolding that process as well. Um it's a real gift to be in that transformation with you.

Speaker A

It does affect you as well. Absolutely. This is exactly what I I hold retreats and this is exactly what like I hold meetings and retreats that are always always in the true meeting. This just gets more and more and more and more obvious

Speaker A

as undoing is happening in each one, you know. Yeah. How do you feel? Yeah. Yes. You miss I feel really good. I feel as good as you look. [laughter] No. Did you get anything from that? From what you've heard?

Speaker A

Um, no. I did. And it was just really helpful because I was sitting and listening and reflecting on just my process and right how I navigate I have so many questions but it's way too many but um no it's very interesting

Speaker A

actually you have a question though it's way too many but it made me feel if you if you have one you're very welcome just one just one I just wanted to say I really appreciated the fact that I felt um like

Speaker A

selfawareness how important is it I'll ask one I'll ask one because I was thinking what's your name by the Shireen Invisalign so my speech is corrupted. So it's okay.

Speaker A

Um how so we're experiencing life we're going through and we're just you know meeting it but what about goal attainment and you know the whole creation.

Speaker A

Yes. Wonderful. I was thinking a lot about question. Wonderful. Yes. Um uh do you do you want to finish the end of that sentence?

Speaker A

No, I think yeah you understand why right? Yeah absolutely because we are the creator. We are the creators. We are we are an expression of the creator and we are creative beings. Our being is we are the point

Speaker A

we are always creating our reality. We are always creating our experience of reality. Right? So through our thoughts and our feelings, our beliefs and the energy we give to all of that that creates a vibration, right? And that vibration is

Speaker A

a frequency and that is your point of attraction. So like a magnet that is what you're attending to, what you're believing into, what you're thinking, what you're feeling is a vibration, an energy, like a magnet that draws more of

Speaker A

the same to it. Right? So conscious creation, if you're consciously you you said goals, if you're conscious of your goal, right? what you really really want in this life. And you become the frequency of that thing, whatever that thing's vibration is, that goal you

Speaker A

want, like you become the vibration of that, like that goal you want. When you reach that goal, what will it feel like?

Speaker A

What will you be thinking when you're Yeah. So, sorry. Yeah. So as we're saying this cuz I was what I was thinking was well then how do you if we are not associating as much with in my mind I was thinking meaning making if

Speaker A

we're not let letting things mean things then how do you we then identify with what we want to create if we're just meeting it slowly so much sound no you don't sound silly at all how does that question you don't sound silly at Sure.

Speaker A

Okay. How do you feel about coming closer? I don't mind. Come. You don't sound silly at all. Hello.

Speaker A

Hi. Hi. Right. So, could you say that to me slowly so I can go with you in it?

Speaker A

Okay. So, so what I was thinking as you was talking as was about meaning making.

Speaker A

Yes. And how we identify because it was the idea of just meeting experiences just like Oh, right. Yes. not um identifying with anything just being free.

Speaker A

Yes. But then I thought well how do we construct our reality? How do we then drive towards what we do what we don't have the identity process or um make meaning of right not in amplification of beautiful question beautiful question

Speaker A

right it's a beautiful question it's great you know so there's a difference in what I'm saying what I'm saying in the context of don't identify with the false sense of self the ego self. Don't get identified with the identification of a false sense of

Speaker A

self that is built up of patterning and conditions and ego self. The self that is uh for example in this case not good enough, broken um like don't make the world outside of you mean you're good enough or not good enough for the ego

Speaker A

self. But once you see that you are pure awareness as godliness, life itself, consciousness, you can choose any identity without becoming identified with the identification. You can choose any identity you want to step into. For example, you in your what is your goal?

Speaker A

What goal do you have? What do you want to do? What do you really want in this life?

Speaker A

I'm focused on peace. Peace, right? Okay. Peace. Beautiful. Beautiful. Beautiful. So peace, right? What does peace feel like?

Speaker A

That feels freeing. Feels freeing. Right. Right. So who you will be when you live from a state of peace, right? You think in a certain way. You feel in a certain way. You look at things in a certain way. Right?

Speaker A

stepping into that energy and that vibration be shaping an identity out of that without becoming identified with identification right now that's the mind can't get that the mind that's not for the mind it's not for the mind but you can get it

Speaker A

you can get it you can only hear it without the thinking process because it's beyond the thinking process. It's it's in what you actually already are because the state of being of who you are in peace because peace is

Speaker A

truly your nature, right? That's your true nature. So when you're in aligned to your true nature, you think certain thoughts, you feel a certain way. Can you start choosing those thoughts and those states of being consciously? Can you start choosing

Speaker A

that? Yes. Yes. And that becomes what you identify with without becoming identified with identification.

Speaker A

Right? That's the bit that's mind-blowing without becoming egoically involved. Yeah. Right. Yeah. But then these these uh goals are really good when they're not ego-driven.

Speaker A

Because the thing is as you're saying this, when you have that architecture of peace, you want less. Like things don't mean the same. Well, less is more, you know, because from a state of peace, you know, the more if you if you had more

Speaker A

available like in whatever it doesn't need to be material, it can whatever you've got more of, you can share whatever it is, even if it's material, right? So beings who are coming from a state of true peace and true freedom and

Speaker A

true love if they are also successful materially they do good things in the world right they serve and they help so it's not necessarily ego-driven or against you get what I mean so if you have a calling for true

Speaker A

service which is not ego driven but it's like to to do to do good in the world to impact the world in a good beautiful way. It doesn't need to be ambitious from the ego point but it can be

Speaker A

an expression of who you are you know. Yeah. Something to do anyway. [snorts] If I had, you know, in the process of this life story, um, at a certain point way back when, I turned away from the material world,

Speaker A

right? After spending years with a billionaire boyfriend and flying around in private jets and all that stuff. That was many years before jail, right? Or any of those things or spiritual search.

Speaker A

It was before before in my 20s. So at a certain point I took the cognition that money doesn't buy you happiness and it's not the thing to go after. [ __ ] that. Go for freedom. Go for peace. Then I

Speaker A

rejected the material world and I went for true freedom and became rich in this area. Yet where I look from now, ah money is not the enemy. The material world is not the enemy. It is part of this freedom. It is is whatever I make

Speaker A

it mean. So I'm talking more about desire. Yeah. All desire is the life force.

Speaker A

Yeah. But if you like everything like that, you feel a sense of peace that you don't really feel you need.

Speaker A

Did you then desire to That's beautiful. But you you you came here. It may not be desired driven, but something moved you.

Speaker A

Yeah. So you're called towards something. There's a desire that's not ego-driven. Yeah. You eat food. You enjoy you enjoy to eat food.

Speaker A

Yeah. So desire is also life force. It just depends where it's coming from, you know.

Speaker A

I'm reuniting with desire big time. [laughter] Yeah. Good for you. I am. Yeah. Wow.

Speaker A

Yeah. Because if I don't desire anything, nothing happens. Do you know what I mean? If I put my attention in it and go, "Oh, [ __ ] hell. Actually, I want a beautiful [ __ ] home on the

Speaker A

beach somewhere. [laughter] I don't want a little room in some little corner in a dusty little thing cuz I'm spiritual.

Speaker A

I want a [ __ ] lovely house on the beach. By the way, God, let's do it." Okay.

Speaker A

You know, Neil's going to get one for [laughter] Yeah. Well, exactly. We're in this world to have a good time.

Speaker A

Yeah. Yeah. And not to torture ourselves. Yeah. Exactly. Why not abundance? Abundance is our nature, right? This is abundance.

Speaker A

It's our nature. Look at the abundance of that. How rich it is. You know, we don't get points for being broke or being spiritual. We don't our spiritual levels don't go up because we like know we don't money is like a you

Speaker A

know it's like let's include abundance is the richness of the source of what we are right just look around you there's trees and flowers and birds and there's everything you know this is our nature it's time for inclusion

Speaker A

yeah no thank you this has been very are you going to be doing more groups in class well I had all these dates set up for a weekend intensive and there was no bookings, right? It was the first time for the

Speaker A

last three years I've been here and it's always been full and I did nothing to make it happen.

Speaker A

Right. And this time it was just a different set of dynamics and it didn't happen, you know.

Speaker A

And how long are you going to be in Glastonbury for? Only another um I don't know what the date is. I've lost my mind.

Speaker A

Probably another week or something. Well, come to our portal to a sentence. This is Neil's the producer of this.

Speaker A

Everyone will be there. Yeah. Where where is that happening? Is it just across the street? The town hall.

Speaker A

Oh, great. This weekend, Friday, Saturday, Sunday. Great. Yeah. Here comes my my class. Yes. What are you speaking about? I'll come to your class. I can't wait.

Speaker A

I'm actually speaking about I'm speaking about meaning and the UFO phenomena, the meaning we give it. So, it's all about meaning.

Speaker A

Meaning. Meaning. The meaning we give it. Yeah. Whatever meaning we give it or the meaning we let other people give us.

Speaker A

That's the big part. What meaning is the government giving you about this? What mean? We are the ones with the power to give meaning to anything.

Speaker A

Exactly. And if we let other people give us meaning, they want us to be in fear.

Speaker A

It's whatever. [ __ ] that. We can recalibrate our meaning to it's like something amazing, exciting. It's just a world changing event.

Speaker A

Yeah. We were just in a crop circle the other day and we said and we said why doesn't everyone want to know about this and what would your mother say? What would your mother say if you asked it?

Speaker A

She just sort of looks away. It's like what what for? Yeah. Like people Yeah. Just it's something exciting happening here and this is part of it. What you're helping people realize this is the excitement.

Speaker A

This wouldn't be happening without you. It wouldn't be happening without any of us. No. [laughter] But there's something exciting happening in the moment of of being. And I think not to get into my lecture, but that's what these phenomena wants us to meet

Speaker A

them most of it on that level of being because it's it's beyond dogma. No one knows what's really going on. And so we just have to be so present to meet these beings on an equal playing field, whatever it is,

Speaker A

instead of a story about it. Right. Yeah. Right. So that's part of it, isn't it, Margaret?

Speaker A

Well, thank you every So yeah. So yeah, thank you so much. Can we um close the eyes again? So we just return back to silence.

Speaker A

Yeah. [sighs] [sighs] Thank you. Thank you. Thank you for the gift of your presence.

Speaker A

Thank you, Arm Shanti. Thank you everybody. Let there be peace. I'm feeling really good.

Speaker A

[laughter] I am. And thank you all. If you want to make a [music] donation, there's a donation But I fell through the pain to the core of the heart. Till there was [music] no body, no prison, nothing [singing]

Speaker A

apart. Everything opened in [music] a blaze of light. A freedom not bound in the day or the [singing] night.

Speaker A

And awareness widened to [music] something deeper inside. And I found a place where I know could [music] longer hide.

Speaker A

The guards were watching as we watched them to a mirror of seeing everything [singing] we do. [music] But rolls fell away. No woman, no name, just the intensity of watching a silent game.

Speaker A

When you no longer relate, [music] the mass starts to fall until there is nothing left to the me there at all.

Speaker A

Only a presence, a witness [music] so clear. The one who remains when identity [singing] disappears. [music] Falling in love with the beloved [music] beyond.

Speaker A

Where the seeker dissolves [singing] and the truth is found.

Topics:awakeningspiritualityconsciousnesspresenceegomeditationself-inquiryAlan SteinfeldAnanta Krantinonduality

Get More with the SozAI App

Transcribe recordings, audio files, and YouTube videos — with AI summaries, speaker detection, and unlimited transcriptions.

App Store Google Play

Or transcribe another YouTube video here →

Free tools: TXT to SRT · SRT Validator · Merge SRT · Subtitle to Text · All tools