Racial Equity & Inclusion Director at Ben & Jerry’s, Ka… — Transcript

[Music] We're in the midst of a huge transformation where our peers, communities, and workplaces are all really melding into one. Welcome to Reimagining Company Culture. My name is Christina and Giudiano, she, her, and hers, and I am the Senior Partnerships Manager here at All Voices. Today, I am very excited to welcome our next guest onto the interview series, Karen Driscoll. She is the Racial Equity and Inclusion Director at Ben & Jerry's. Karen, thank you so much for being here. If you want to share a little about yourself for our listeners, including your pronouns, and when you were younger, do you remember how you exactly answered the question, "What do you want to be when you grow up?"

Yeah, thanks for having me, Christina. Really excited to be a part of this conversation on company culture. My name is Karen, as you mentioned. My pronouns are she and her. When I was younger, I used to want to be a lawyer until I realized that that meant you had to go to law school as well. And so, when I found that out, I was like, "Oh no, thank you." But I think when I was younger, it was really the concept of justice that captivated me the most and creating the world as it should be. So, I got to do that in other ways, and now at Ben & Jerry's, I get to bring joy and justice to the world through ice cream.

I love that: joy, justice, and ice cream—three things that I love as well. I would love to dig in a little bit deeper to think about how you kind of think your personal journey has really led you up to this point to lead the kind of racial equity inclusion team, and also specifically at Ben & Jerry's.

Yeah, so for me, when I was in college, I actually made the decision that I wanted my career to really align with my personal values. That was after a study abroad trip to East Africa, and it really was transformational for me. So, when I started to look for career opportunities, I wanted to be doing work that felt meaningful for me personally. I started out in the nonprofit space, then moved to philanthropy, and have now been in the for-profit space for the last six years. I've always worked with either organizations or companies that have had a social justice value related to the work. So, when I learned of the racial equity and inclusion role at Ben & Jerry's, I was definitely intrigued. Ben & Jerry's has always been a company that I've loved as a fan, not only for ice cream but also for the social mission work. For me, it was wanting to be a part of a company that could very well just sell ice cream and be very good at that, but I think our three-part mission requires more of us. Our product mission requires that we make a good product. Our economic mission requires us to grow our business. But our social mission also requires us to make the world a better place. That was something I knew I wanted to be a part of, just in terms of doing something that felt meaningful for me personally.

Absolutely, I love that triple mission there as well. I've seen Ben & Jerry's in the news and the company statements around the social justice aspect as well, and something that is really important to the team in terms of being a leader at Ben & Jerry's and talking about racial equity inclusion, making sure folks feel like they belong as well.

How do you think about really measuring company culture in terms of quantitative ways or qualitative ways too? I think culture is one of those things that can be hard to think about how to measure. It's kind of that thing that's invisible, like the air we breathe. We just know that it's around us, but sometimes we can't always see it. So, I think that measurements related to culture give us the opportunity to measure the parts of our culture that we really care about.

When it comes to quantitative measures, I think we can think about that in terms of the who and the what. So, when we're thinking about the who, we can think about demographic information, the composition of our businesses, and the identities that kind of make up all the parts of our business, whether that be visible parts of our identity like our race, ethnicity, and gender, or invisible parts of our identity like sexual orientation, disability, veteran status. So, that's one category in terms of the who. We can also think about the what in terms of what are we doing to compensate folks fairly, what are we doing to reward folks, and making sure those rewards are equitable across the board.

Then, when it comes to qualitative measures, I like to think of that as the how in terms of how are folks actually experiencing our work cultures. Do they feel safe? Do they have that sense of belonging? Is there a sense of trust with leadership and with management? I think those are both kind of quantitative and qualitative ways that we can think about how to measure culture.

Yeah, I think it's definitely a holistic approach and definitely cyclical as well in terms of an employee's experience at the organization. Day one is going to be very different from day 20 to day 90 and five years down the line as well.

When we're talking about the examples that you shared in terms of compensation and asking how people are feeling, whether you're a manager or a leader, it requires everybody to have that ownership mentality around inclusion. It's not responsible or realistic to think Karen is responsible for making sure Ben & Jerry's is an inclusive space. You need everyone's kind of buy-in there as well.

What are the ways in which you partner with other teams and leaders across the company to make internal systems more equitable? If you could provide any examples there.

Yeah, absolutely, and I completely agree with you. I think in order to transform Ben & Jerry's into the place that we want it to be, it does not only take me alone. It is a team effort for sure. I've been in my role for about six months now, and when I first came on board, one of the things that I was really heartened by was the fact that this has been a journey that has been a cross-functional journey since the beginning. We started our racial equity journey back in 2015 and 2016, after seeing a lot of the killings by law enforcement of Black folks and really wanting to use our company voice to do more and make that commitment. We joined onto the Black Lives Matter movement but also started to look internally. With the help of consultants, there was a team of about 60 employees that really volunteered to want to help in our journey and advance our racial equity value. That team started to look at some of the root causes for us as a company to say, "Why as a company are we majority white?" Some of those root causes included not being intentional about how we're including Black, Indigenous, and People of Color in our business, not having the cultural competency. That root cause analysis is really important in helping us get to our three priority areas where we focus our work today.

Those priority areas are representative of, I think, all parts of our business. The first one is looking at our talent and making sure that our talent is as diverse as the U.S. population. Our second area is increasing the number of Black-owned scoop shops in our franchise system. Our third area is increasing the number of Black suppliers and the spend that we do with procurement suppliers. Those three areas, taken together, represent our entire business, and so it's going to take a cross-functional team for us to achieve that goal.

Yeah, it's definitely a holistic approach there and impacting different stakeholders within the organization and people that everybody works with too. I think that is also really impactful. Getting more specific into everybody's responsibility is really inclusion there as well. And I think the amount of people who r

social uh justice aspect as well and something that is really important to the the team in terms of being a leader um at ben and jerry's and talking about racial equity inclusion making sure folks feel like they they belong as well

how do you think about really measuring uh company culture in terms of you know quantitative ways or qualitative ways to i think culture is one of those things that can be hard to think about how to measure it it's kind of that thing

that's invisible like the air we breathe we just know that it's around us but sometimes we can't always see it and so i think that measurements related to culture give us the opportunity to measure the parts of our culture that we really care

about and so when it comes to quantitative measures i think that we can think about that in terms of the who and the what um so when we're thinking about the who we can think about demographic information um the composition of our businesses and

the identities that kind of make up um all the parts of our business whether that be visible parts of our identity like our race and our ethnicity and our gender or invisible parts of our identity like sexual orientation disability

veteran status so that's one category in terms of the who we can also think about the what in terms of you know what are we doing to compensate folks fairly um what are we doing to reward folks and making sure

that those rewards are equitable across the board um and then when it comes to qualitative measure i like to think of that as the how in terms of how are folks actually experiencing our work cultures and do they feel safe

do they have that sense of belonging is there a sense of trust with leadership and with management and so i think those are both kind of quantitative and qualitative ways that we can think about how to measure culture

yeah i think it's definitely a holistic approach and definitely cyclical as well in terms of an employee's experience at the organization day one is going to be very different from day 20 to day 90 and five years uh down the line as well and

when we're talking about the examples that you shared in terms of compensation and asking how people are feeling whether you're a manager or or a leader it requires everybody to have that ownership mentality around inclusion it's not responsible or

realistic to think karen is responsible for making sure ben jerry's is an inclusive space you need everyone's uh kind of buy-in there as well what are the ways in which you partner with other teams and leaders across the company to

make internal systems more equitable if you could provide any uh examples there yeah absolutely and i completely agree with you i think you know in order to transform ben and jerry's into the place that we wanted to be it does not only

take me along it is a team effort for sure and i've been in my role for about six months now and when i first came on board one of the things that i was really heartened by was the fact that

this has been a journey that has been a cross-functional journey since the beginning we started kind of our racial equity journey back in 2015 and 2016 um you know after seeing a lot of the the killings by law enforcement of black folks and

really wanting to use our company voice to do more and make that commitment joined onto the black lives matter movement but also started to look internally and with the help of consultants there was a team of about 60

employees that really volunteered to want to help in our journey and advance our racial equity value and that team started to look at some of the root causes for us as a company to say you know why as a company are we majority

white and some of those root causes just included not being intentional about how we're including black indigenous and people of color in our business um not having the cultural competency and so that root cause analysis is really important in helping us to get to our

three priority areas where we focus our work today and those priority areas are representative of i think all parts of our business so the first one being looking at our talent and making sure that our talent is as diverse as kind of the u.s

population our second area is increasing the number of black owned scoop shops in our franchise system and then our third area is increasing the number of black suppliers and the spend that we do with procurement suppliers and so those three areas i think taken

together are you know i think i said represent our entire business and so it's going to take a cross-functional team for us to achieve that goal yeah it's definitely a holistic approach there and impacting different stakeholders within the organization and

people that everybody works with too i think that is also really impactful getting kym more specific into everybody's responsibility is is really inclusion there as well and i think the amount of people who raise their hands to be part of the initiative is also

really telling of the company culture i want to kind of talk about leaders and how do you empower everyone at the organization to really be equity driven leaders and think about you know how can i make my process more inclusive what

could i be doing um to include more voices and representation there absolutely i i think the simple answer in terms of how to make folks equity driven leaders is to simply require it i think it starts with that commitment

from the top and from leadership to say that this is a business imperative which is something that we have definitely done and then i think after making that commitment it is starting to model what that behavior actually looks like um and

helping folks to prioritize it in their day-to-day work plans and then thirdly actually creating accountability around it to make sure that it is required making sure that it becomes the competency that everyone is expected to fulfill and we at ben and jerry's have launched

an employee engagement program called empowerment which is really built to build our collective learning around racial equity and we have you know made it so that participation in that program is tied to our bonuses and that means that there's a level of

accountability for all of us to really engage in this learning together so that we can meet the goals of our racial equity work i love that the simple answer you just require it you tie it to performance and

compensation and you provide the why in context and it is a long term sustainable approach to equity driven leadership as well i know you mentioned earlier that ben and jerry's has really taken a stand and lead into racial

justice before a lot of organizations have really felt comfortable talking about race in the workplace supported black lives matter early on as well and i read uh kind of ben and jerry's statement around committing to not being silent which is really really great and

i definitely want to pass the mic to you to ask what are some of the kind of other ways that the organization has really consistently shown up and specifically dismantled systemic marginalization well i will say that this is an ever

evolving journey that we by no means have arrived at the perfect place that we want to be and so it's something that we will continue to stay committed to um and we understand that you know i've been injured we are experts in making

ice cream but when it comes to issues related to social justice that we really take the lead from our partners who do this on a day-to-day basis and as i mentioned before that's how we got you know started in our own journey and so

we look to our partners to really provide us with guidance with their expertise with their knowledge and then as we are learning we you know bring our fans along along on the journey with us to share that knowledge to share the ways in which

they can get involved as well if there are any calls to action that will really help to start to make those systemic changes that we want to see and i think that thirdly we use our voice as a business whether that is like

you said making statements that say black lives matter or that say we must dismantle white supremacy um or by making great ice cream with a message like colin kaepernick's flavor change the world or yeah or our latest flavor

changes brewing that really celebrates the safety and liberation of black folks so we bring together what we you know are experts in along with the issues that are important and try to make it so that folks can follow us along

yeah i think making sure that people have an open source of what best practices are and what's what's really working too and to your earlier point as well of just having an external impact on the community with the product it's

not just uh in a silo that's also kind of really great examples too in terms of calls to action and just all of the changes to work over the past couple years especially the last two years do you have any kind of key pillars of a

workplace that really cultivates that psychological safety and ensures people can do their best work what are non-negotiables for that psychological safety when i think about psychological safety i really think about it um if if it exists within a company and an

organization it is feeling like you have the ability to fully show up at work and to really speak up without fearing that there will be negative consequences or retribution and so i think in order to cultivate psychological safety it really means

that we have to be transparent and build that trust with folks and i think that transparency sometimes means also admitting when you know we fall short and when we make mistakes um i think that you know expecting perfection on a journey especially

related to racial equity is not realistic um and perfection is is also a characteristic of white supremacy culture that we're seeking to dismantle and so i think that when there are times when we need to say you know that didn't

land us quite like we wanted to or you know our our impact was not what we intended i think that that transparency really does help to build the sense of trust that lends to psychological safety for folks yeah acknowledging where you are

and also when mistakes are made even with the best intentions it's an important conversation to have and really again having that ownership mentality to there and having a growth mindset that everybody does not know everything um and people can learn and adapt as well

um and i agree that perfection is not it's not the goal and it's not realistic in terms of you know with the best intentions they're always going to be kind of miscommunications or just misaligned uh goals and understandings

from your perspective how can organizations kind of proactively identify uh quote-unquote hidden dangers like toxic managers or those misunderstandings and proactively kind of keep a pulse on what's happening and find find them by empowering employees to really speak up with that

psychological safety i think that it's important to create kind of multiple channels to receive that kind of feedback whether that is folks knowing that they can come to their you know direct manager coming directly to their hr team

or also providing anonymous channels in case those are not options that folks feel completely comfortable with so that that piece of critical feedback can still be shared and that you know we can still understand what how folks are

experiencing the business i know that i've been in jerry's every month we have a global town hall with folks that support our business and in addition to kind of providing you know the monthly business updates we also have space for q a um where folks can

ask questions either anonymously or you know share questions directly and it's really an opportunity to hear what's happening um to be a temperature check um for you know for folks to share what's happening with them and to receive those answers

in real time as well um so i think those multiple channels for communication are super important yeah absolutely and i think that goes to our conversation earlier too that every employee is in a different part of their kind of career with the organization and

in life in general and some people are going to want to ask in all hands some people feel comfortable with their managers some people feel comfortable providing that feedback anonymously and all of that kind of matters as well in

terms of people's experience and how they show up to to work i feel like in in these conversations the question of how are we doing roi and all of these how do we know we're doing a good job comes up and i know that we are

not box checkers in terms of okay we have these four things so that psychologically we have a psychologically safe environment or you know we've accomplished our racial equity goals what is your philosophy around measuring the progress of these

strategies in the private sector with that kind of caveat for me i think that companies should really measure what matters in terms of what they're seeking to achieve and that may look different across businesses as i mentioned for us we have three

really clear goals as it relates to our racial equity work that focus on our talent on our scoop shops and on our suppliers and so we're really looking at metrics that will help us to understand how we're achieving those goals

whether that be again according to demographics in terms of who is represented but also investments right how are we spending our dollars as a business to make sure that we are going to be able to achieve the goals that we are setting

out um to achieve together and so it's really dependent on what your goals are as as a business and recognizing that metrics are also a moment in time and so it's important to continually measure those things year after year to see if in fact the

strategies that we're employing are you know doing what we hope they would do or if it's necessary for us to pivot in other ways because we're not seeing the kind of progress that we'd like to see yeah definitely have to be dynamic

what's working what can we lean into what could be built upon and what really needs to be updated or redesigned as well i think that a lot of folks are also curious especially especially at other organizations that are

predominantly white or predominantly kind of one kind of group as well what does active allyship look like or accomplish ship look like too in specifically supporting black indigenous people of color at an organization and what is it clearly

not um what are your thoughts there i think it's a really important question and i think that it's one that's come to the forefront um kind of in the american landscape over the last couple of years i'm particularly thinking about 2020 and

the murder of george floyd and kind of the racial unrest that that sparked um and for me when i think about allyship and accomplish um ship i think that it really means first speaking up um and making space it is you know speaking up

in the times where black indigenous and people of color may not be in the room but these issues are still very important um or making space in terms of amplifying those experiences um i know just on a personal front you know and

thinking back to 2020 it was prior to my time in joining ben and jerry's but i was in consulting and i i've seen how a lot of companies just struggled in terms of what to do when it came to

showing up for you know people of color after the the murder of george ford and as a black woman in particular you know there were moments where i really didn't have much to say because i was processing kind of my own grief um given

everything that had occurred and seeing you know ben and jerry's say pretty clearly that this is an instance a very clear instance in which we can't be silent and that we must dismantle white supremacy and not mincing words at

all um was something that i know that i needed and i'm sure that a lot of folks needed to hear in that moment and so for me that's exactly what allyship is it is about speaking up in those moments

that matter absolutely inaction is action in itself and being really specific by what you mean in kind of supporting and making really intentional space and of course not relying on people and their emotional labor to kind of make you feel

better and also definitely again not not wanting to to check a box to say we we support you you really people can tell when you're being authentic and and not um in terms of we are in you know march 2022 uh and it is women's

history month this week was international uh women's day and the 2022 campaign theme is breaking the bias we should be thinking and acknowledging our bias 365 days a year uh what is your advice to really individuals and other

organizations to create a world with more gender equity yeah i love the theme of breaking the bias i think that you know bias is something that we all possess it is the way that our brains are hardwired and so it's important to pay attention

to it i think that the advice that i that i would give to folks is not only thinking about the ways in which we may be biased against something but to also recognize that bias is also an affinity for something or preference

for something so it's as much about you know how it can be harmful in term but also about how you may be helping you know certain individuals over others and so i would encourage folks to pay attention to that affinity bias and

think about you know how you either as an individual or how your company may be advantaging men over women and especially i think black women and women of color um and thinking about you know how those affinities really do impact um you

know women in particular and what are the ways in which you know folks can start making change recognizing the ways in which our our helping hand is actually creating more inequality in the workplace absolutely i think that's important in

terms of an awareness piece too it could be you know something that we are gravitating towards because of a similar background and also um kind of preconceived notions that need to be unlearned uh as well karen is there anything that i didn't

ask that you want to share with folks who are listening or maybe underscoring one to two key takeaways that you hope people bring with them after kind of hearing our conversation today yeah i think that first i really just

appreciate the opportunity to be a part of the conversation today i think that the work that we're doing at ben and jerry's we're really excited about but we recognize that we have a long way to go so i hope that folks stay

on the journey with us and stay connected to us as we are seeking to make progress in those three areas that i mentioned and um those will be my takeaways for today i love it i'm excited to continue uh

seeing the journey of an organization really committed to doing the work with a capital w karen thank you so much for being on reimagining company culture and being vulnerable and sharing your journey to this work and everything that

you are doing in the space absolutely thank you for having me i appreciate the invitation absolutely and as a reminder for folks who are listening at all voices we really believe in that employee feedback management as a requirement for organization to succeed

overall have a great rest of your afternoon everyone