Speaker A
Matthew 23. What? Yeah, that's the first name, yeah. Okay, of the Gospel of Matthew chapter 23?
Exploring the origins and authorship of the Hebrew New Testament from Cochin, India, with Mascha van Dort, a behavioral scientist.
Key Takeaways
- The Hebrew New Testament from Cochin is a rare and historically significant manuscript.
- Leopold van Dort, a Jewish convert, played a major role in translating the New Testament into Hebrew.
- Behavioral science can provide unique insights into historical religious texts and their authorship.
- Jewish surnames and identity evolved under social and political pressures, impacting historical records.
- Interfaith relations and personal histories influence religious texts and their transmission.
Summary
- The video discusses the Hebrew New Testament manuscript from Cochin, India, brought to Cambridge University by Buchanan.
- Mascha van Dort, a behavioral scientist with a background in applied physics, investigates the authorship and history of this Hebrew New Testament.
- Her research was recommended by Prof. Meir Bar Ilan and published in the prestigious Revue des Études Juives.
- Leopold Immanuel Jacob van Dort, a Jewish convert to Christianity from the Netherlands, is identified as a key translator of the Hebrew New Testament.
- Mascha shares her personal connection to the van Dort surname and her motivation to research the historical figure.
- The video explores the cultural and historical context of Jewish surnames, conversions, and the translation work in the 18th century.
- Discussion includes the relationship between Christianity and Judaism in historical and familial contexts.
- Mascha found extensive archival material and new sources about Leopold van Dort and his work.
- The video highlights the significance of this Hebrew New Testament for Jewish studies and religious history.
- Plans for Mascha’s upcoming book and open access to her article are mentioned.
Chapters
- 00:00Introduction and Context of Hebrew New Testament
- 01:13Significance of the Revue des Études Juives Journal
- 02:08Discovery of the Hebrew New Testament Manuscript
- 03:06Mascha van Dort’s Background and Motivation
- 03:57Surname Origins and Personal Connection
- 05:10Initial Interest and Research Beginnings
- 06:04Research Developments and New Sources
- 07:29Leopold van Dort’s Biography and Historical Context
- 12:00Jewish Naming Conventions and Conversion History
- 13:57Family Relations and Cultural Insights
Full Transcript — Download SRT & Markdown
Speaker A
Yeah. Alright, I need to see that book. So, you study behavioral science and why people do things.
Speaker A
Yeah. Do you think he did it for the money, or because he found the classes so convincing that Christianity was true?
Speaker A
Christianity and Judaism… he thought it was two neighbors. And they were friendly conversations, and it's probably how he was brought up in a family, with having one Christian child that had been brought up Jewish in a Jewish family. Shalom, and welcome to Hebrew Voices. I'm here
Speaker A
today with Mascha van Dort. She has a Master’s of Applied Physics from the Technical University of Delft. She's worked as a researcher for the last 25 years in behavioral sciences, and Prof. Meir Bar Ilan of Bar Ilan University recommended her research on the authorship of
Speaker A
the Cochin Hebrew Gospels. He recommended that to me when I interviewed him. And she has a really important article that's come out. And you could agree with it or disagree with it, but it's in one of the top journals in the world on Jewish studies… and I'm sure I'm mispronouncing it;
Speaker A
the Revue des Études Juives. It's interesting; in Jewish sources they refer to this, in Hebrew, as the French Journal. And then the Jewish Quarterly Review, they refer to it as the English Journal. In the 19th century, there were two major journals in Jewish study… and then there
Speaker A
was the German journal, ZWJ (Zeitschrift für die Wissenschaft des Judentums). So, this is a major thing that goes back, this journal, over 150 years. And for her to have an article in that journal is really a historic thing. So, this is something, guys,
Speaker A
you have to pay attention to even if you disagree with it. I'm showing it here on the screen. Her article is called Commissioner, Purpose, Translators, Copyists and Age of the Hebrew New Testament of Cochin, that's in India, and The Quran of the Library of Congress. And I
Speaker A
heard about this, and I'm like, “Okay, this is absolutely fascinating. We have to have this on the program. This is a Hebrew Voices story.” So, we have this full, complete New Testament, in Hebrew, that was brought to Cambridge University by this Buchanan fellow. I've
Speaker A
been to Cambridge. I've held this in my hands. And now we have a woman who's discovered, according to her article in REJ, Revue des Études Juives, explaining where it comes from.
Speaker A
Before we get into it, you're in applied physics and behavioral sciences. How did you get into studying a Hebrew New Testament from India? Well, yeah, okay. So, my name is Mascha van Dort, and I have the same last name as one of the translators of the Hebrew New Testament. And
Speaker A
actually, what motivates me in my research is that I am really curious about what motivates people.
Speaker A
And I do that for innovations, and there's the relation to applied physics, what I'm doing today.
Speaker A
But I'm also really curious about what drives people through time, and also through cultures.
Speaker A
So, it was sort of a personal interest that I followed, but it's just in line with what I do.
Speaker A
So, is he your ancestor, this van Dort who translated the Gospels of the New Testament?
Speaker A
No, he's not.
Speaker A
He's not? Okay. Is it a coincidence?
Speaker A
No, it's not a coincidence. We share the same last name. So, what happened in the Netherlands, a lot of people have a surname starting with van, which means from, and then you have a city name. So, you could be named van Delft, and then you came from Delft, the city. And I'm from Dort,
Speaker A
which refers to the city of Dordrecht. So, like the painter, we say in English, van Gogh, but I think you say van Gogh.
Speaker A
So, he was from a town called Gogh?
Speaker A
Yeah, probably. Although Gogh is a city in Germany and not in Holland. But yeah, probably.
Speaker A
Okay. So, his ancestors probably came from there.
Speaker A
So, as a behavioral scientist, why did he cut off his ear? You don't have to answer that, it's fine.
Speaker A
Yeah, well, that's a long story.
Speaker A
Let's save that for a different discussion.
Speaker A
Alright. So, van Dort… Leopold Immanuel Jacob van Dort, according to your hypothesis here, translated the New Testament, or parts of it, into Hebrew, and he happens to have the same name as you. But you had told me that somebody contacted you to find out if he was your relative. Is that what got you interested?
Speaker A
Well, no. Actually, my father… he retired. And a lot of retired, retirees, or however you call it, they do ancestry research.
Speaker A
Oh, okay.
Speaker A
And so basically, in the Netherlands, there are four to five families that have the surname van Dort, and I'm from one of them. And so, what I did is, I was in innovation management, technical. I made a nice, beautiful website for him, before 2000, let’s say. And what
Speaker A
happened is that I got a phone call around 2000, actually, from Prof. Bar Ilan, and he asked me, do I know more about Leopold Immanuel Jacob van Dort? And back in that time, I didn't know. But I searched in Bing and well, something came up. So yeah, a couple of years ago there was a book
Speaker A
coming out about him, and it sparked my interest again. And it was actually just before COVID.
Speaker A
And I started going into it, and I contacted Prof. Meir Bar Ilan again, and also another professor from Copenhagen, that is… and so it got rolling again. I found 300 pages of information, and really a lot of new sources.
Speaker A
You also have a book coming out.
Speaker A
Yeah, I have.
Speaker A
Alright, wonderful. So, we're going to put up a link to that when it comes out, but right now we will have a link to the article.
Speaker A
Yeah.
Speaker A
Okay. And you told me that they're going to make the article open access at some point, but right now it looks like you have to pay for it. But hopefully soon it'll be open access and everyone can read it.
Speaker A
All right, so tell us about this. So, you looked into this Leopold… he has a long name. Leopold Immanuel Jacob van Dort. I'll just call him Leopold, Leopold van Dort. And you found out he wasn't your relative, but he has an interesting story. So, who is he? And
Speaker A
how did he come to translate the New Testament, or parts of the New Testament, into Hebrew?
Speaker A
Yeah. He was the grandson of the first Jewish person who came to Dordrecht. That's a city in Holland, and his grandfather came from Poland. And there were just about six records of van Dort when I started out. We knew that he was Jewish, but that he had converted. So, it was really
Speaker A
a puzzle to find out how he linked...
Speaker A
He converted to Christianity you mean?
Speaker A
Yes, he did.
Speaker A
Okay.
Speaker A
And it was really a puzzle to find out where he came from and where he was born, but he was actually born in 1712 in The Hague. And he was a son of a melamed, and...
Speaker A
What? A melamed.
Speaker A
Oh, a melamed, okay. A teacher. Very good, yeah.
Speaker A
Yeah, and so he trained as a chazzan, and first he worked in Dordrecht. So, in his ancestral city, The Hague, which was actually kind of a big place back then… It was the city of our court. So, the Prince of Orange, and also the court, because we had a sort of… I wouldn't say it was a democracy,
Speaker A
but it was more than a prince reigning court… We had like a republic, actually, at that time.
Speaker A
Hmm.
Speaker A
Yeah. By the way, it's interesting, you said his grandfather came from Poland. And obviously van Dort is not a Polish name.
Speaker A
No.
Speaker A
But Jews in Poland didn't have names at the time… they didn't have surnames. They didn't take the family names until they were forced to by the Russian Empire. The reason they gave them surnames… like my name, Gordon, that was something only that came about like in maybe the 1800s. And
Speaker A
that was because they wanted to tax them. And if I said, “I'm Nehemia Ben Reuven…” “Well, there's 12 of those. How do we know which one you are? So, to tax you, we need to give you a family name.”
Speaker A
Yeah. It's interesting. He's called van Dort, but in Poland, he didn't have a surname. He was Solomon Levi.
Speaker A
Oh, okay. So, Levi means he's a Levite, so… that's not really a surname, but it became one later.
Speaker A
Levi is for a son of Judah, really. Levi means he's from the tribe of Levi.
Speaker A
or Benjamin, he turned 25, which is the age of adulthood, and he was entitled to an income by his illegitimate father. So, his brother had a Christian father. Okay, got you. Yeah, and a Christian mother, both. Yeah.
Speaker A
Oh, and a Christian mother… Wait, so how is it his brother? I'm confused. It was a foster brother. Oh, okay, alright, got you. So, Beer is his adopted brother, or foster brother, that grows up with Leopold.
Speaker A
Yeah. And I know it sounds like an incredible fairytale story, but it's actually the truth.
Speaker A
The world's complicated, right? Yeah. Actually, it took me about four years to believe it myself, but yeah. So, he was a son of two nobles, of a count and a duchess, actually. And because of the difference in noble rank, they couldn't marry.
Speaker A
Oh! So, they gave their son to be raised by a Jewish family?
Topics:Hebrew New TestamentCochin Hebrew GospelsLeopold van DortJewish studiesRevue des Études Juivesbehavioral sciencereligious translationChristianity and JudaismNehemia Gordonhistorical manuscripts
