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DEBATE William Lane Craig vs Jamal Badawi The Concept Of God In Christianity And Islam

William Lane Craig argues Christianity's conception of God is true, citing Jesus' self-understanding as divine Son and the resurrection; Jamal Badawi responds from an Islamic perspective.

Key Takeaways

  • Craig contends that Jesus' self-understanding as the unique Son of God is supported by historically authentic sayings
  • Craig holds that the resurrection serves as divine vindication of Jesus' claims
  • Badawi argues that the New Testament evidence does not establish Jesus' divinity and that the Trinity developed later
  • The debate centers on the historical reliability of Gospel sayings and on competing theological frameworks
  • Both speakers agree that the conceptions of God in Christianity and Islam are fundamentally different

What the video covers

  • Opening remarks by William Lane Craig framing religious relativism as logically inconsistent given contradictory conceptions of God across religions
  • Craig identifies the Christian and Islamic conceptions of God (Trinity, incarnation, crucifixion) as mutually incompatible
  • Craig's first contention: Jesus regarded himself as God's unique divine Son, not merely a prophet
  • Craig cites the parable of the wicked tenants (Luke 20), Matthew 11:27, and Mark 13:32 as evidence of Jesus' divine self-understanding
  • Craig argues the sayings are historically authentic, with appeals to the Q source and to criteria of embarrassment and early church theology
  • Craig's second contention: the resurrection vindicated Jesus' divine self-understanding, distinguishing it from Jewish resurrection concepts
  • Jamal Badawi's rebuttal disputes the strength of Craig's arguments and questions the authenticity and interpretation of the cited passages
  • Badawi discusses the Trinity's development, citing the Nicene Council and the political context of Constantine
  • Discussion of the Quranic view that Jesus was not crucified and of Jesus as a prophet and servant of God
  • Debate touches on divine attributes such as omniscience, perfect love, and morality, and on the role of good works versus grace

Chapters

  1. 00:00Opening remarks and religious relativism
  2. 00:13Contrasting Christian and Islamic conceptions of God
  3. 03:00Jesus' self-understanding as divine Son
  4. 20:00The resurrection and Jewish context
  5. 26:40Badawi's response and the Trinity's development
  6. 40:00Incarnation, omniscience, and divine attributes
  7. 55:00Works, grace, and the nature of salvation
  8. 66:40Concluding exchanges

Answers

Questions about this video

What is William Lane Craig's main argument in this debate?

Craig argues there are good reasons to think the Christian conception of God is true, primarily because Jesus regarded himself as God's unique divine Son and his resurrection vindicated that self-understanding. He contends that the Islamic conception lacks comparably good reasons.

Which Bible passages does Craig use to support Jesus' divine self-understanding?

Craig cites the parable of the wicked tenants in Luke 20, Matthew 11:27 on the Father and Son's mutual knowledge, and Mark 13:32 on the unknown date of the second coming. He argues these are historically authentic sayings.

How does Jamal Badawi respond to Craig's arguments?

Badawi says Craig's arguments are not convincing and offers rebuttals from an Islamic perspective. He questions the Trinity's origins, pointing to the Council of Nicaea and Constantine's political role, and argues the New Testament does not establish Jesus as God.

Full Transcript — Download SRT & Markdown

00:02
Speaker A
good evening let me begin by thanking the Muslim Student Association and the Evangelical Christian Union for the invitation to participate in tonight's dialogue. I also want to thank especially Dr. Butterwe for his willingness to join in participating in this event this evening. It's been my prayer that God may guide us all in our spiritual journeys, and that tonight's event might be a significant step forward for some of us in our journey toward him.
00:44
Speaker A
participating in this event this evening it's been my prayer that God May guide us all in our spiritual Journeys and the tonight's event might be a significant step forward for some of us in our journey toward him now in our day of religious relativism
01:01
Speaker A
Now, in our day of religious relativism and pluralism, a debate like the one this evening is incredibly politically incorrect. All religions are supposed to be equally true, right? So what's the fuss all about? Well, the answer to that question, it seems to me, is that religious relativism, which is almost unthinkingly accepted by a great many students today, may not be true after all. It seems to me that religious relativism is in fact logically inconsistent and therefore cannot be true. The world's religions conceive of God or gods in so many contradictory ways that they cannot all be true.
01:19
Speaker A
which is almost unthinkingly accepted by a great many students today uh may not be true after all it seems to me that religious relativism is in fact logically inconsistent and therefore cannot be true the world's religions conceive of God or
01:38
Speaker A
In particular, and I'm sure Dr. Butterwe would agree with me here, the concept of God in Islam and Christianity is so different in crucial respects that both religions cannot be right. For example, Christians believe that God is tri-personal, that the second person of the Trinity took to himself a human nature, that Jesus of Nazareth was therefore both man and God, that in his human nature he died to pay the death penalty of sin that you and I deserved, but that God raised him from the dead, thereby showing his sacrificial death to be effective. Muslims deny all these things. We cannot both be right. We could both be wrong. Maybe it's the Buddhists who are right, but we can't both be correct. Thus every one of us, whether Christian, Muslim, Buddhist, Hindu, atheist, agnostic, or what have you, needs to ask himself what reasons we have for thinking our persuasion to be true. Otherwise we run the risk of being self-deluded.
01:56
Speaker A
cannot be right for example Christians believe that God is tri-personal that the second person of the Trinity took to himself a human nature the Jesus of Nazareth was therefore both man and God that in his human nature he died to pay
02:15
Speaker A
Accordingly, I'm going to defend two basic contentions in tonight's dialogue. Number one, there are good reasons to think that the Christian conception of God is true. And second, there are not comparably good reasons to think that the Islamic conception of God is true.
02:32
Speaker A
maybe it's the Buddhists who are right but we can't both be correct thus every one of us whether Christian Muslim Buddhist Hindu atheist agnostic or what have you needs to ask himself what reasons we have for thinking our persuasion to be
02:52
Speaker A
So let's turn to my first basic contention, that there are good reasons to think that the Christian conception of God is true. Now, obviously Christianity, like Islam, comes in a variety of forms, but what I'll be discussing this evening is what the writer C.S. Lewis called "mere Christianity," the common beliefs of all of the broad segments of Christendom, whether Catholic, Orthodox, or Protestant. In particular, I'm going to suggest first that Jesus of Nazareth regarded himself as the unique divine Son of God, and secondly that his divine self-understanding was vindicated by his resurrection from the dead.
03:10
Speaker A
comparably good reasons to think that the Islamic conception of God is true so let's turn to my first basic contention that there are good reasons to think that the Christian conception of God is true now obviously Christianity like Islam
03:28
Speaker A
Let's talk first about whether Jesus of Nazareth regarded himself as God's unique divine Son, or only as a prophet, as Muslims claim. I want to examine several sayings of Jesus which are demonstrably authentic, that is to say, actually uttered by the historical Jesus, and which disclose his divine self-understanding. In fact, today the majority of New Testament scholars believe that among the historically authentic words of Jesus are claims that reveal his divine self-understanding. Jesus' radical self-concept is disclosed, for example, in his parable of the wicked tenants of the vineyard in Luke chapter 20. Even skeptical scholars, like those in the Radical Jesus Seminar, admit the authenticity of this parable.
03:47
Speaker A
that Jesus of Nazareth regarded himself as the unique Divine Son of God and secondly that his Divine self-understanding was Vindicated by his resurrection from the dead let's talk first about whether Jesus of Nazareth regarded himself as God's unique Divine son or only as a prophet
04:12
Speaker A
In this parable, the owner of the vineyard sends servants to the tenants of the vineyard to collect its fruit. The vineyard symbolizes Israel, the tenants are the Jewish religious leaders, the servants are the prophets sent by God, and the owner is God himself. The tenants beat and reject the owner's servants. Finally, the owner says, "I will send my only beloved son. They will listen to my son." But instead the tenants kill the son because he is the heir to the vineyard. Now, what does this parable tell us about Jesus' self-understanding? It tells us that he thought of himself as God's special son, distinct from all the prophets, God's final messenger, and even the heir to Israel. This was no mere Jewish prophet.
04:31
Speaker A
believe that among the historically authentic words of Jesus are claims that reveal his divine self-understanding Jesus radical self-concept is disclosed for example in his parable of the wicked tenants of the vineyard in Luke Chapter 20. even skeptical Scholars like those
04:53
Speaker A
Jesus' self-concept as God's unique Son comes to explicit expression in Matthew 11:27. Jesus said, "All things have been delivered to me by my Father, and no one knows the Son except the Father, and no one knows the Father except the Son, and anyone to whom the Son chooses to reveal him." Again, there's good reason to regard this as an authentic saying of the historical Jesus. It's drawn from an old source shared by Matthew and Luke, which scholars call the Q document. Moreover, it's unlikely that the early church invented this saying, because it says that the Son is unknowable, no one knows the Son except the Father, but for the post-Easter church we can know the Son. So this saying is not the product of later church theology. What does this saying tell us about Jesus' self-concept? It tells us that he thought of himself as the exclusive and absolute Son of God and the only revelation of God the Father to mankind. Now think of it: if Jesus wasn't who he claimed to be, then he was crazier than Jim Jones and David Koresh put together.
05:13
Speaker A
servants are the prophets sent by God and the owner is God himself the tenants beat and reject the owner's servants finally the owner says I will send my only beloved Son they will listen to my son but instead the tenants kill the son
05:36
Speaker A
Finally, I want to consider one more saying, Jesus' saying on the date of his second coming, in Mark 13:32. Jesus said, "But of that day or that hour no one knows, not even the angels in heaven, nor the Son, but only the Father." This is an authentic saying of the historical Jesus, because the later church, which regarded Jesus as divine, would never have invented a saying ascribing ignorance or limited knowledge to Jesus. But here Jesus says he doesn't know the date of his return. What do we learn from this saying? It not only reveals Jesus' self-consciousness of being the unique Son of God, but it also presents us with an ascending scale: from men, to the angels, to the Son, to the Father. On this scale, Jesus transcends every human being and even every angelic being.
05:57
Speaker A
Jewish prophet Jesus self-concept as God's unique son comes to explicit expression in Matthew 11 27 Jesus said all things have been delivered to me by my father and no one knows the son except the father and no one knows the father except the son and
06:19
Speaker A
This is really incredible stuff, and yet this is what the historical Jesus believed, and this is only one facet of Jesus' self-understanding. C.S. Lewis was right when he said that a man who was merely a man and said the sort of things Jesus said would not be a great moral teacher. He would either be a lunatic, on the level of a man who says he is a poached egg, or else he would be the devil of hell. You must make your choice. Either this man was and is the Son of God, or else he is a madman or something worse. You can shut him up for a fool, you can spit at him and kill him as a demon, or you can fall at his feet and call him Lord and God. But let us not come with any patronizing nonsense about his being a great human teacher. He has not left that open to us.
06:36
Speaker A
moreover it's unlikely that the early church invented this saying because it says that the son is unknowable no one knows the son except the father but for the post-easter church we can know the Sun so this saying is not the product of
06:54
Speaker A
Now, as visible demonstrations of his radical claims, Jesus carried out a ministry of miracle-working and exorcisms. He was finally crucified for these claims, on the charge of blasphemy. But God confirmed his claims by raising him from the dead. If Jesus really did rise from the dead, then he must have been who he claimed to be, the unique divine Son of God. Now, most people would think that the resurrection of Jesus is something to which historical investigation is irrelevant. You just either believe this by faith or not. But I spent two years at the University of Munich in Germany as a fellow of the Alexander von Humboldt Foundation, studying the historical basis for the resurrection of Jesus, and I found that the historical grounds for that event are remarkably good. I can only summarize my findings here by saying that there are three major historical facts, established by the consensus of biblical criticism, that support the resurrection of Jesus: the empty tomb, Jesus' appearances after his death, and the very origin of the Christian faith itself. Let me say a brief word about each of these. First, the evidence indicates that Jesus' tomb was found empty by a group of his women followers on t
07:13
Speaker A
Jesus wasn't who he claimed to be then he was crazier than Jim Jones and David koresh put together finally I want to consider one more saying Jesus saying on the date of his second coming in Mark 13 32.
07:30
Speaker A
Jesus said but of that day or that hour no man knows not even the angels in Heaven nor the son but only the father this is an authentic saying of the historical Jesus because the later Church which regarded Jesus as Divine
07:48
Speaker A
would never have invented a sin ascribing ignorance or limited knowledge to Jesus but here Jesus says he doesn't know the date of his return but what we learn from this saying it not only reveals Jesus's self-consciousness of being the one son
08:06
Speaker A
of God but it also presents us with an ascending scale from men to the angels to the son to the father a scale on which Jesus transcends every human being and even every Angelic being this is really incredible stuff and yet this is
08:27
Speaker A
what the historical Jesus believed and this is only one facet of Jesus self-understanding C.S Lewis was right when he said a man who was merely a man and said the sort of things Jesus said would not be a great moral teacher he
08:44
Speaker A
would either be a lunatic on the level of a man who says he is a poached egg or else he would be the devil of hell you must make your choice either this man was and is the Son of God or else a
08:57
Speaker A
Madman or something worse you can shut him up for a fool you can spit at him and kill him as a demon or you can fall at his feet and call him Lord and God but let us not come with any patronizing
09:12
Speaker A
nonsense about his being a great human teacher he has not left that open to us now as visible demonstrations of his radical claims jesus carried out a Ministry of Miracle working and exorcisms he was finally crucified for these claims on the charge of blasphemy
09:32
Speaker A
but God confirmed his claims by raising him from the dead if Jesus really did rise from the dead then he must have been who he claimed to be the unique Divine Son of God now most people would think that the
09:47
Speaker A
resurrection of Jesus is something to which historical investigation is irrelevant you just either believe this by faith or not but I spent two years at the University of Munich in Germany as a fellow of the Alexander Von Humboldt
10:00
Speaker A
Foundation studying the historical basis for the resurrection of Jesus and I found that the historical grounds for that event are remarkably good I can only summarize my findings here by saying that there are three major historical facts that are established by
10:17
Speaker A
the consensus of biblical criticism that support the resurrection of Jesus the empty tomb Jesus appearance is alive after his death and the Very origin of the Christian faith itself let me say a brief word about each of these
10:32
Speaker A
first the evidence indicates that Jesus tomb was found empty by a group of his women followers on the Sunday morning following his crucifixion according to Jacob Kramer an Austrian scholar who has specialized in the study of the Resurrection by far most Scholars hold
10:51
Speaker A
firmly to the reliability of the biblical statements about the empty tomb and he lists 28 prominent scholars in support I can think of at least 16 more that he neglected to mention according to D.H van dalen it is extremely
11:09
Speaker A
difficult to object to the empty tomb on historical grounds those who deny it do so on the basis of theological or philosophical assumptions but those assumptions May simply have to be changed in light of the facts second the evidence indicates that on
11:30
Speaker A
separate occasions different individuals and groups of people saw appearances of Jesus alive after his death in his first letter to the church in Corinth Paul listed some of these appearances he wrote Christ was raised on the third day in accordance with the
11:49
Speaker A
scriptures and he appeared to cephas then to the twelve then he appeared to more than 500 Brethren at one time most of whom are still alive though some have fallen asleep then he appeared to James then to all the apostles last of all as
12:06
Speaker A
to an untimely born he appeared also to me according to the late Norman parent of the University of Chicago the more we investigate the Traditions with regard to the appearances the firmer The Rock begins to appear upon which they are
12:23
Speaker A
based these appearances were bodily and physical and were witnessed not only by Believers but also by unbelievers Skeptics and even enemies third the very origin of the Christian faith implies the reality of the Resurrection all historians agree that Christianity
12:45
Speaker A
sprang into being because the original disciples sincerely believed that God had raised Jesus from the dead and they proclaimed this message everywhere they went but where in the world did they come up with that outlandish belief well if you deny that Jesus really did
13:05
Speaker A
rise from the dead then you've got to explain the origin of the disciples belief in terms of either Christian influences or Jewish influences now obviously it couldn't have been the result of Christian influences for the simple reason that there wasn't any
13:20
Speaker A
Christianity yet but neither can it be explained by Jewish influences because the Jewish concept of Resurrection was radically different from Jesus resurrection as the renowned New Testament scholar joachimiramias puts it nowhere does one find in the literature of ancient Judaism anything comparable
13:41
Speaker A
to the resurrection of Jesus apart from the resurrection of Jesus the origin of the disciples belief remains inexplicable attempts to explain away these three great facts like the disciples stole the body or Jesus wasn't really dead have been universally rejected by
14:02
Speaker A
contemporary scholarship the simple fact is that there just is no plausible naturalistic explanation of these facts and therefore it seems to me the Christian is amply Justified in believing that Jesus rose from the dead and was who he claimed to be
14:21
Speaker A
thus it seems to me that there are good reasons to believe that the Christian conception of God is true now the Muslim conception of God shares many elements of similarity with the Christian conception of God this is only
14:37
Speaker A
to be expected since historically Islam is an offshoot of the judeo-christian tradition it therefore has many elements of Truth nevertheless I do not see any comparably good reasons to think that the Islamic conception of God is wholly true
14:56
Speaker A
now I sincerely hope that in saying this I do not offend anybody I am not trying to put anybody down or attack anyone personally but I'm simply asking the question what good reason is there to think that the Islamic conception of God
15:14
Speaker A
is true as the Quran says produce your proof If you speak truly let me share two reasons why I am persuaded that the Islamic conception of God is Not adequate my misgivings are both philosophical and historical my philosophical difficulty is that
15:36
Speaker A
Islam seems to have a morally inadequate concept of God Muslims and Christians agree that God is the greatest conceivable being by definition if there were anything that you could conceive of greater than God then that would be God
15:53
Speaker A
thus necessarily God is the greatest conceivable being now besides being all-powerful all-knowing all present and so forth the greatest conceivable being must also be all loving for it's obviously better to be loving than unloving and God is a
16:14
Speaker A
morally perfect being therefore God as the morally perfect being must be all loving and this is exactly what the Bible affirms the Bible says God Is Love in This is Love not that we loved God but that he loved us
16:33
Speaker A
and sent his son to be the sacrifice for our sins or again it says God shows his love for us in that while we were yet sinners Christ died for us what a contrast when we read what the
16:50
Speaker A
Quran says about God's attitude towards Sinners according to the Quran God does not love Sinners listen to the following passages God loves not the unbelievers God loves not evil doers God loves not the proud God loves not transgressors
17:10
Speaker A
God loves not the Prodigal God loves not the treacherous God is an enemy to unbelievers over and over again the Quran declares that God does not love the very people that the Bible said God loves so much that he sent his only son to die for
17:31
Speaker A
them now this may seem paradoxical in light of the quran's calling God al-rahman al-rahim the all-merciful Until you realize that according to the Quran what God's mercy really cashes out to is that if you believe and do righteous Deeds then God can be counted
17:54
Speaker A
on to give you what you have earned plus a bonus thus the Quran says work and God will surely see your work every soul shall be paid in full for what it has earned those who believe and do Deeds of
18:10
Speaker A
righteousness and perform the prayer and pay the alms their wage awaits them with the Lord according to the Quran God's love is thus reserved only for those who earn it it says to those who believe and do righteousness God will assign love
18:31
Speaker A
so the Quran assures us of God's love for the God-fearing and the good doers but he has no love for Sinners and unbelievers thus in the Islamic conception God is not all loving his love is partial and has to be merited
18:50
Speaker A
but don't you think that this is an inadequate conception of God a God who says if you measure up to these standards then I will love you as the greatest conceivable being the most perfect being the source of all
19:07
Speaker A
goodness and love God's love must be unconditional and impartial therefore the Islamic conception of God seems to be morally inadequate philosophically therefore I cannot agree to it my second misgiving about Islam is that it has a historically inadequate
19:29
Speaker A
conception of Jesus according to the Quran Jesus was not Divine but merely a human Prophet the Quran says they are unbelievers who say God is the Messiah Mary's son the Messiah son of Mary was only a messenger the Quran goes on to imagine the
19:51
Speaker A
following dialogue between God and Jesus God said Jesus did you say to man take me and my mother as gods Jesus answers no I only said serve God my Lord and your lord this passage evidently embodies the misunderstanding that the Christian
20:10
Speaker A
Trinity is supposedly comprised of God the Father Mary and their offspring Jesus of you which no Christian would affirm the Quran also states that Jesus was not in fact crucified it says Jews say we slew the Messiah Jesus Son of Mary the
20:31
Speaker A
messenger of God yet they did not slay him neither crucified him but only a likeness of that was shown to them later Muslim tradition says that Judas was mistakenly crucified in Jesus place now obviously either the New Testament
20:48
Speaker A
or the Quran hasn't got its facts straight here they can't both be right both claim to be divinely inspired so you can't settle the issue by appealing to that so we must simply ask ourselves the question which is more apt to be
21:03
Speaker A
historically reliable a collection of documents which was written down within the first generation while the eyewitnesses were still alive or a book written 600 years later by a man who had not even any first-hand contact with the New Testament
21:22
Speaker A
why to ask the question is to answer it the primary source document is clearly the documents of the New Testament and in fact legendary stories about Jesus half found their way into the pages of the Quran I'm referring to
21:37
Speaker A
stories about Jesus which are found in the so-called apocryphal gospels these are forgeries which appeared in the second and third centuries after Christ and which the Quran unwittingly repeats as facts for example the Quran mentions the story borrowed from the apocryphal
21:56
Speaker A
infancy Gospel of Thomas of how the boy Jesus made a bird out of clay and then made it come to life the story of Jesus birth is also fancifully embellished in the Quran Jesus comes out of Mary's womb talking
22:13
Speaker A
and expounding Islamic theology here's how the Quran describes Jesus birth when Mary felt the throes of childbirth she lay down by the trunk of a palm tree crying oh wood that I had died but a voice from below cried out to her do not
22:30
Speaker A
despair your lord has provided a brook that runs at your feet and if you shake the trunk of this palm tree it will drop fresh ripe dates in your lap therefore Rejoice eat and drink carrying the child she came to her
22:44
Speaker A
people who said to her marry you have surely committed a monstrous thing your father was not a wicked man nor was your mother unchaste she made a sign to them pointing to the child but they replied how can we speak to a babe in the Cradle
22:59
Speaker A
whereupon he spoke and said I am the servant of Allah he has given me the gospel and ordained me a prophet his Blessing is upon me wherever I go and he has commanded me to be steadfast in prayer and to give alms to the poor as
23:13
Speaker A
long as I live he has exhorted me to honor my mother and to pray has purged me of vanity and wickedness I was blessed on the day I Was Born Blessed shall I be on the day of my death and be
23:24
Speaker A
peace be upon me on the day when I shall be raised to life painfully obvious that this story has been Rewritten in light of Islamic theology equally unreliable from a historical point of view is the quranzalic allegation that Jesus was not in fact
23:42
Speaker A
crucified a fact which even Robert Funk the chairman of the radical Jesus seminar recognizes as and I quote one indisputable fact about Jesus it seems very clear then that the Quran presents us with a historically inadequate and therefore inaccurate
24:01
Speaker A
picture of Jesus for these and other reasons even if I were not a Christian I still could not become a Muslim there's just no good reason to think that the Islamic conception of God is true so in summary we've seen two good
24:21
Speaker A
reasons to think that the Christian conception of God is true first Jesus of Nazareth regarded himself as God's unique Divine son and second his Divine self-understanding was Vindicated by his resurrection from the dead moreover we've seen two good reasons to
24:40
Speaker A
think that the Islamic conception of God is Not wholly true first Islam seems to have a morally inadequate conception of God and secondly Islam has a historically inadequate conception of Jesus it seems to me therefore that when we
24:57
Speaker A
weighed the evidence as dispassionately and objectively as we can the evidence suggests that God has revealed himself decisively to Mankind in the person of Jesus of Nazareth through him we can come to know God's wonderful love and forgiveness
25:20
Speaker A
alhamdulillah all Praises due to Allah the sole Creator cherisher and sister of the universe and may his peace and blessing be upon his last messenger Muhammad and upon all prophets and Messengers before him I greet you all with the greeting of all
25:38
Speaker A
of the prophets in its most complete form assalamu alaikum which means May the peace mercy and blessing of Allah God capital G be with you all and I wish to thank you all organizers and participants especially Dr Craig for your participation this
25:55
Speaker A
evening we are meeting here this evening as members of the one and same Human family I suppose most of us however belong to the abrahimic ethical monotheistic Faith which Embraces Jews Christians and Muslims it is thus very useful for us to
26:15
Speaker A
exchange and share our views on tonight's topics and other ones I'd like to indicate in the very beginning that no time will be spent in trying to prove the existence of Allah I hope that Dr Craig had fun last night try to prove
26:30
Speaker A
that it reminds me with a story of a teacher who walked in the classroom and he said did any of you guys see God they said no any of you touched gods or heard him they said no he said therefore he does
26:45
Speaker A
not exist and a smart student stand and say did any of you guys see the brains of our teacher therefore one of the interesting thank you thank you one of the interesting questions that were posed to Ali the cousin of prophet
27:07
Speaker A
Muhammad peace be upon Him somebody came to him and he said prove to me that God exists his answer was God ever absent so that he exists his existence need any proof I believe Ali here was referring to what
27:23
Speaker A
the Quran always point to as means of knowledge about God through the pure innate nature or fitra as God says that he breathed into every human being some of his spirit reflection in ourselves and our Creation in the environment and the cosmic order
27:41
Speaker A
in which we all live these are all as the Quran called them ayat or science of the existence of Allah not necessarily proof just science very clear so I must say that both Muslims and their Christian Brethren are on the same
27:57
Speaker A
wavelength with respect to that issue what we differ about however as Dr Craig said is what does the word monotheism mean the question related to that would be the nature of Christ and the issue of Trinity I'd like to begin first by
28:14
Speaker A
spending a few minutes by defining What Muslim mean by monotheism because the same claim is also made by Christians for the Muslim there are at least three important conditions for Pure monotheism one is to believe that God is the soul
28:32
Speaker A
creator sustainer of the universe no partner and no co-creator with him secondly excuse me that God Alone is worthy of worship which means none is to be worshiped instead of him alongside with him nor is God to worship through
28:52
Speaker A
any of his creatures no confession no clergy with a specific Authority thirdly that God is Not only one numerically but one also in attributes and person which mean there is only one person there are no persons in Godhead
29:12
Speaker A
for the Muslim any departure from any of these three elements is regarded as so-called shirk which is not only polytheism actually it means in a broad sense to associate others with God in his exclusive Divine attributes the Quran present that as the cardinal sin
29:30
Speaker A
that will never be forgiven It quotes Jesus the Blessed himself as saying that you would be innocent of those who do the same the Quran indicates that this pure monotheistic faith has been the mission and message of all all prophets
29:46
Speaker A
throughout history and they invited all mankind in fact to willingly submit to God follow his guidance and their life which actually is the literal meaning of the term Islam to achieve peace with God within oneself with others Human animals
30:02
Speaker A
plants ecology through submission to God and acceptance of History that's why the Quran say all prophets were Muslims or their true followers were Muslim there are no religions there's only one true religion of God there are religions created by man either exclusively or
30:17
Speaker A
mixing Revelation with their own religious theology the traits or attributes of God as they appear in the Quran are quite clear when the Quran first of all says there is absolutely nothing comparable unto God say he is God the one and only he begets
30:36
Speaker A
not nor was he begotten the Quran is quite clear and there is none comparable unto him but in the meantime we notice that in the Quran besides the attributes that Dr Craig seemed to have emphasized in the Quran
30:50
Speaker A
the attributes of Glory power wisdom Justice creation but I think alongside with that which Dr Craig did not mention ample description in the Quran of the closeness of God to mankind of his forgiving quality of his Holiness of his
31:10
Speaker A
Mercy in fact the Quran called God wadud which is more than saying God is love actually means fulling of compassionate love or loving compassion we do it in fact the Readiness of God to forgive those who turn back to him is itself an
31:28
Speaker A
indication of this loving and caring quality the origin of difference then or the essence of it in my humble View and as Dr Craig also indicated is the notion of God incarnate in the form of the second person that is Jesus peace be upon him
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considering him to be a Divine full man and full God infinite and finite at the same time which to the Muslim is a contradiction of term in the view of the Muslim it is not in nonsense it is actually a deep belief
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that Jesus was one of the five greatest prophets in history and we don't consider that nonsense we consider it very relevant we considered it very honorary because there is no greater blasphemy to be attributed to any Prophet than claiming Divinity contrary
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to the teaching of God that he revealed to all of the prophets now the before I get to some of the arguments that sometimes are presented to prove or to try to show that Jesus indeed was God and that so-called the
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Muslim position is inadequate let me directly first go through some of the points raised by Dr Craig first of all I agree with Dr Craig that Trinity and pure monotheism are not compatible and one has to be right and
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the other is wrong and the Quran is very fair it actually says and addressing those who rejected face it says you or us are either guided or in manifest error so that's the ultimate of fairness in the texture of the Quran
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itself but now let me get to some of the evidence that Dr Craig presented us when we talk he talks about Luke and sending servants and then sending the only son I must say first of all that the word
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servant of God is even more honorific even than Son of God in the Quran for example the term son or the term servant ABD of Allah the servant of Allah has a very higher meaning even than speaking about sun
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because we know from the biblical text that the word Son of God is a term that was used to refer to any good person including any prophets and even non-profits sometimes we're called Son of God but again Dr Craig seemed to have been
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looking very literally about the statements in in the Bible about only and beloved for example we find evidence in the Quran that the term first born is attributed to more than one prophet Abraham Jacob and David if we take it
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literally we say that's self-contradiction Ferris does not necessarily one particular event uh the term even only a sun is used metaphorically in the Bible not in the little sins in Genesis 22 2 for example when it speaks about taking your only
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son Isaac obviously he was not the only son because Ishmael was already there but what is more important when we speak about this this notion of sun that's 86 times in the New Testament Jesus is referred to as Son of God not
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once was he ever referred to as God the son that theology that developed later and this is extremely significant Dr Craig raised also the issue about Matthew 11 27 when Jesus said that God gave me everything well logically
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speaking if someone is receiving and someone is giving the one who's giving is greater and he's the only one God furthermore if we take it literally that God me gave me everything then there is no Trinity because God or the father is
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totally emasculated and he has nothing because he gave everything already so if you want to take it literally it goes both ways Dr Craig raised the question about the knowledge of the hours but that itself actually is admission
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that he is not Divine because one of the attributes of divinity is to know the hour not to be unaware of what's going to happen in the future as far as various statements made by the disciples to express their own religious
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experience ban angels that Jesus is less than the Angels or more than the angel this is really immaterial because all of these including the highest of engines are creatures of God and even if Jesus is greater or lower still God is a category
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by himself John Hicks in his introduction to the myth of God incarnate indicates that this terminology should not be taken literally and he said that in his opinion these are where poetic statements used by the disciples or writers of the gospels to express the
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significance of Jesus to them Dr Craig also mentioned about the Miracles made by Jesus or through Jesus aside from all these details about Resurrection because there are lots of questions about resurrections by the way and crucifixion and it's not that
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unanimous in fact one time I had a full debate on that subject alone but aside from that I'd like to say two basic points first of all the fact that God raised Jesus and there are places in the New
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Testament where it says God raised him not that he raised himself itself shows that there is greater power who's ever living Who Never Dies who raised him from the death and Resurrection is not a big deal and does not make a person really divine
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God raises whoever he wishes in fact as you notice in a little pressure that would be available out it's called Jesus in the Quran in the Bible there is evidence in the Old Testament or Hebrew scripture in the first book of King
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second book of King in the Ezekiel that God raised people from the deaths and sometimes even when the body of a dead person touched the bones of a prophet he came back to life and after all God is
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going to raise us all in the day of judgment and resurrect us does that necessarily mean that we will be promoted to the position of godhead okay the question of rejection of Islam because I couldn't see in any of the
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points quite frankly that Dr Craig presented to defend the concept of Christianity I didn't find anything really that's convincing and I'll come back to some more even on this if I have the time but let me first make rebuttal for what
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he said about rejection of Islam first of all I would definitely reject Dr Craig's statement that Islam is an offshoot of judaic Christian tradition this is based on the false assumption that when two texts or two Revelations are similar then the letter must have
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copied from the earlier but we know all even from synoptic studies in which is very competent and aware that it is also possible to have another explanation that both texts in spite of the time difference might have been based on a third command
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Source this is exactly what Muslims believe that God it is God who revealed the Torah to Moses it is God who revealed the injeel or gospel to Jesus and it is the same God who revealed the Quran to Prophet Muhammad so what is
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wrong with having similarity it does not mean offshoot and Muslim definitely reject this notion of offshoot it's coming from the same Source from which the Judaism and Christianity based its beliefs Dr Craig that she says from the philosophical point of view he says that
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Muslims do not have a morally adequate concept of God because of this notion of love I have already indicated before the notion of love which is already there in the Quran directly in and directly and can be found in dozens and dozens and
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dozens of verses but I think Dr Craig perhaps had a poor exegesis of the Quran I think he doesn't understand the mode of expression in the Quran and that's why he came up with this erroneous conclusion that it is
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morally inadequate when the Quran says that God does not love the cruel the unbelie rejected of faith and all kind of evil Deeds it's actually a metaphor of referring to rejection and not loving evil Deeds and when God speaks about loving the
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Believers loving those who are kind it does not mean that it is an exclusive love for those people it is also a metaphor of loving the good deeds in fact I would consider it morally inadequate for God to say
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I love those who do evil and those who do good equally and as such leaving us with the conclusion that it doesn't really make any difference and that when Adolf Hitler encounters Mother Teresa in some place in Paradise he smiles at her
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and says Mother Teresa after all it didn't make any difference did it but I think [Applause] but I think the the problem that I urge Dr Craig to reconsider really is that he perhaps mixes between two things between a statements made in the Quran
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about loving and hating to refer to the good deeds and evil deeds in order to give us the moral inducement that is morally adequate that is the ultimate of moral adequacy is to make a distinction between Good and Evil but the other
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thing that he seemed to have mixed with it is the notion of God caring and loving human beings in spite of their evil and in that we don't differ for example as Prophet Muhammad peace be upon him said it once he said
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if this world is worth even a wing of a fly God would have not given the unbeliever even a drink of water from it so people disobey God and defy them he still let them breathe let them eat
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provide them with food and all of that give them chance and then after all of that he says that still if you repent and come back to me your sins are blotted and I'll forgive you and receive you there is a very beautiful
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description in hadees of the Prophet peace be upon him that a person who comes to God repentant God will be so happy more happy than a man who lost in the desert and all of a sudden his camel
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left him with all his provision when he got his Camel Back that if you come to me one inch I'll come to you one arm if you come to me walking I'll come to you running literally God coming to you running so I
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think there is a bit mixed between God caring about all including those who are disobedient and if he doesn't care about them why did he send prophets to guide them and to help them and open the door of his Mercy for them
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having said that much and as much time with Allah I even go beyond what Dr Craig said because I did reject and made rebutter for both his presentation against Islam and in defense of his own belief first of all when you refer even to
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statements attributed to Jesus peace be upon Him claiming Divinity we always heard this John 14 I am the way the truth and the life nobody comes unto the father but by me I said amen every Prophet speak not for himself and
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Jesus himself said that in John he speaks for God who sent him and since the way to God is one way then a prophet in his lifetime is the way the truth and the life nobody can reach God except by
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following the way that God revealed to that prophet that he said I and the father are one in John 10.
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but also in John 17 11 he spoke about being one with his disciple in John 14 20 he said I am in you as the father is in me which means then the Oneness with the father is only Oneness in purpose
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not in Divinity or Essence let alone the Greek words I don't have time to elaborate on that there is more evidence to support that as well some say that he said whoever's see in me he has seen God but we know that
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whether if I tell you close your eyes and explain something I say do you see and say I see means I understand that means when anyone who knows me since I reveal and explain what God revealed to me he has seen God and known him in fact
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and both the Hebrew scripture and the New Testament say that nobody ever saw God it is reported also that he said to Thomas when he said my God and my Lord he did not say anything to him and did not rebuke him but again we find
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some biblical scooter who go back and say that there are certain modes of expression in Greek and they provide an alternative translation that you my Godly Lord this is a legitimate translation they suggest my Godly Lord or means that you are Godlike not
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literally that you are my God it is said that according to Mark 14 that he accepted worship from others this is indeed very strange because the word worship sometimes is used to refer to intense love and I am sure that the
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mayor of champagne is addressed in the meeting your worship as well if indeed Jesus claimed to be worshiped and it was understood that he's an object of worship the pages of the New Testament would be full but what we find
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that he himself worshiped God he fell on his face and prayed to God and prayer is petitioned from the infinite from the finite to the infinite some people raised the question about telling the Jews when in John 8 before
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Abraham was I am first the word the word I am itself does not really carry the connotation usually given to it that this is the same term used in Exodus because the Greek term used in both cases is not the same
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number one number two the existence before Abraham can be understood in view of the Bible itself in First Peter chapter 1 verse 20 it speaks of Jesus as one who was destined before the foundation of the Earth in act chapter 2
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verse 23 the same thing speak and uses the exact term for knowledge of God so yes Jesus you and me and everybody else pre-existed in the four knowledge of God to use the Biblical term before even the foundation of the earth some say but why
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did the Jews take stones and try to to Pelt him with it well it is not that he said I am God then obviously if a human being walking on Earth say I am God people will say he's crazy and they would leave him
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alone but I think the possible reason as some theologians suggest is that he healed the man on the Sabbath and since the Sabbath was ordained by God he made himself equal to God by healing the person on the Sabbath that's why he had
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an eloquent response to them that the Sabbath is made for man not man made for the Sabbath and the other thing that seemed to have offended the Jews as well is that they adored Abraham and by putting himself
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ahead of Abraham in fact they were offended and that can be found in John 8 53 which shows clearly that they didn't like the notion of putting himself above in a few minutes that are remaining I'll just even go beyond what Jesus claimed
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because there is no claim really that it's conclusive nowhere does he say I am God or the Lord and this matter should be crystal clear in matter of divinity just like when God spoke to Moses I am God there is no Lord but me you don't
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need any ambiguous statements when it comes to teaching people the basics of the faith but some people who refer to the statements made about Jesus I must say in the first place that this are not binding on us we don't believe that
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those disciples were prophets receiving Revelation from God country to the Christian belief but even if you look at them and of course their statement would be less authentic than his own City and none of his statements really made that
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irrevocable and clear claim the question of the Son of God we talked about the question of of baptism for example that appeared in Matthew 28 we find that this is written in manuscripts beginning from the 4th century when the
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doctrine of Trinity became already official one of the historians of the church some of the historians of the church noticed that you see this the famous historian who died in 314. uh refer to the same quotation in Matthew 28 19 18 times
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without using the so-called trinitarian baptismal formula which indicate of course it came later in his writing after the nicerian council which shows the great political factors that led to Trinity being adopted this is another issue about Constantine and his role in
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this even in the New Testament itself we find numerous cases where the baptismal formula did not include the trinitarian form only in the Name of Christ you find that in act 238 8 16 10 48 and 19 5.
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the question of Jesus being manifest In the Flesh the last point I understand and I'd have time for which is found in first Timothy 3 16. you find again in the revised Standard Version of the Bible that it does not talk about Christ
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but about God actually it says he who was manifest In the Flesh not that God was manifest In the Flesh and one of the things since Dr Craig keep claiming that the Bible is authentic everything is authentic there is no disagreement I beg
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to disagree with you Dr Craig because in the British museum in codex a it was found that one of the Greek manuscripts that originally written ho which means which that they found with analysis that there is a different ink that added the
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word s the letter s means god and that totally changed the meaning and this is only but one example of many of the various editorial work that was done in the the scriptures I don't know if I still have time 30
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seconds in that last 30 seconds I must say with all due respect you Dr Craig and I appreciate your presentation and your faith and your urgent view to present it that you could not present a convincing statement about
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why Trinity is better nor could you make any effective rebuttal that Islam has inadequate uh Concept in fact Islam does have a morally sound and instinctively acceptable and innately Truth concept of the true monotheistic faith assalamualaikum now you'll remember in my first speech I
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said that I was going to defend two contentions in tonight's debate first that there are good reasons to think that the Christian conception of God is true and I had two sub points here first that Jesus of Nazareth claimed to be the
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unique Divine Son of God and I looked at three sayings of Jesus the parable of the vineyard Matthew 11 27 and Mark 13 32 I argued first of all that all of these are authentic sayings of the historical Jesus and it's noteworthy
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that Dr badawi did not disagree with this that these are authentic sayings of Jesus so we can't dismiss them as being later Corruptions these are historically authentic to the historical Jesus and therefore the whole debate hinges on the
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interpretation of these passages do they in fact imply Jesus divine self-understanding in the parable of the vineyard I think that it does because Jesus says that he is the unique Son of God and that he is distinct from all the
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prophets the final messenger sent by God to Israel now Dr badawi replies but servant in the Quran is an even more honorific title but of course that's irrelevant the question is how is the word used in Jesus parable and in the parable it
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designates the prophets who are sent by God to Israel and the son is even higher than the prophets and distinct from them so this clearly shows that Jesus thought of himself as not merely another Jewish Prophet but it's God's unique son Dr
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badawi also said But the New Testament never uses the words God the son right it speaks of the Son of God and the point is that Jesus thought of himself as a unique Son of God that set him
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apart from all other humanity and all other prophets and in fact in John 1 18 it does have a rather remarkable phrase John 1 18 says no man has seen God at any time the only begotten God who is in
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the bosom of the father he has made him known this statement was so outrageous even for Christian copyists that many manuscripts were later changed to read the only begotten son who is in the bosom of the father but know what John
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actually says is the only begotten God Jesus who is in the bosom of the father he has made him known so clearly this parable of the vineyard shows us that Jesus thought of himself as God's unique son in Matthew 11 27 Jesus claims to be
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the only revelation of God the Father to Mankind and all Dr badali could say here was that well if God gave everything to the son then he doesn't have every anything left for himself I personally don't see the point the the point of the
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passage is that Jesus claims to be the only and unique and absolute revelation of God the Father to mankind that belongs to the historical self-understanding of the historical Jesus like it or not what about Mark 13 32 Jesus saying on the date of his
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second coming again Dr badawi didn't deny that this shows Jesus thought of himself as higher than any human being higher than any Angelic being and approximate to the father but he says well as God surely Jesus must know the time of his return
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not when Jesus is speaking in his human nature I believe in a genuine Incarnation and as a human being the full Divine omniscience that Jesus possessed as God was not in his waking consciousness thus you have in the New
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Testament a genuine baby Jesus not the sort of baby Jesus that you have as I read in the Quran story where he comes out giving theological discourses uh similarly Dr badawi says but Jesus himself worshiped God yes in his human
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nature Christians believe Jesus was genuinely a human being and as such submitted to and worshiped god of the father but notice that he doesn't deny the import of these passages that they teach Jesus as Divinity and his unique
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sonship he quotes John hick as saying that these are just poetic Passage as John hick was my doctoral advisor at Birmingham Dr hick is not a new testament scholar he is a theologian who lost his faith in the Divinity of Christ
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and has more or less become what is a modern-day Hindu I would agree that the expression Son of God is metaphorical just as the word father is metaphorical but it is a metaphor for indicating the closeness of Jesus and the Divinity of
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Jesus being of same nature as the father but it doesn't mean that Jesus is the physical offspring of God as the the Quran seemed to reject Dr badawi says but Thomas's uh confession my Lord and my God does not
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mean that he thought of Jesus as God it simply means my Godly Lord that's just a woeful mistranslation of the Greek the Greek is hakoriasmus the god of me and the Lord of me and that is clearly the christological
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climax of The Gospel of John Thomas's confession of the deity of Jesus for which Jesus says blessed are you Thomas because you have believed uh and blessed are those who believe without even seeing so it seems to me that we have very good
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reason for thinking that Jesus did claim to be the unique and divine Son of God let me reinforce this by simply pointing out Jesus claimed to be able to forgive sins his Parable showed that he had a consciousness of forgiving sins and his
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table fellowship with Sinners also showed that he was acting out in a living Parable his forgiveness of their sins rice grunler a new testament scholar says Jesus is constant consciously speaking as the voice of God on matters that belong only to God the
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evidence clearly leads us to affirm that Jesus implicitly claims to do what only God can do to forgive sins the religious authorities correctly understood his claim to Divine authority to forgive Sinners but they interpreted his claims as Blasphemous and sought his
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crucifixion that's why Jesus was crucified as we saw on the charge of blasphemy so I think we have good reasons for saying that a Divine self-understanding belongs to the consciousness of the historical Jesus secondly I argued that the resurrection
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of Jesus vindicates Jesus radical claim and I looked at three facts which are agreed upon by the consensus of New Testament Scholars today the empty tomb the appearances of Jesus and the Very origin of the Christian faith notice
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that Dr butterwi did not deny any of these three facts so that these facts stand firmly established by the consensus of Scholarship today what he tried to do was to soften the impact of those facts by saying well but a
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resurrection doesn't make you divine I agree entirely it doesn't but what it does do is it confirms Jesus's claims to Divinity for which he was crucified it is as it were God's Divine confirmation of those radical claims for which he was
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crucified as wolfhard ponnenberg the German Theologian has said the crucifer the resurrection of Jesus Takes on such important significance because it's not just anybody or someone who was resurrected from the dead but because it is Jesus of Nazareth whose execution was
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instigated for his Blasphemous claims if the god of Israel has raised him from the dead this means that the god of Israel has clearly Vindicated those claims for which Jesus was crucified Dr buddy we says but there are many
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resurrections in the Old Testament not at all those are revivifications the return to the Earthly life those people will die again the resurrection to eternal life and glory is unique in the person of Jesus and thus without parallel so it seems to me that we have
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both good evidence for the resurrection of Jesus plus we see the theological significance of the resurrection of Jesus in its confirmation of Jesus's radical personal claims now what about my second contention that there are good or there are not
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comparably good reasons to think that the Islamic conception of God is wholly true notice that Dr Buddha we didn't give any arguments for the Islamic conception of God he explained what they believe and he said I don't have to
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prove that God exists and I agree with that but he didn't give any positive arguments to show the Islamic conception of God as true now I gave two reasons why I think the Islamic conception of God is Not wholly true first it seems to
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me morally inadequate notice that he agrees with me that God is the perfect being must be all loving so the issue here is is the god of the Quran all loving and he says yes he is because the
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word wadood is affirmed of God that he's full of love uh and compassion but Dr badawi then gives away his case by saying in the next sentence he is willing to forgive those who will turn back to him thus you see God's love is
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conditional it is not towards Sinners and unbelievers it is not an unconditional love in his book The God of Justice writes unqualified Divine love for mankind is an idea completely alien to the Quran nowhere do we find the idea that God
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loves mankind God's love is conditional Jesus says in Luke 6 32 if you love those who love you what credit is that to you even Sinners love those who love them and yet this is the highest level to which the god of the Quran rises in
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his love for human beings he loves those who love him who turn to him in fact Dr badawi in his uh brochure on Building Bridges between Christians in Islam virtually admits this listen to what Dr badui says he says correct belief and
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Good Deeds are prerequisites for God's grace and forgiveness and for Rising above our common shortcomings you see it Grace that requires prerequisites it's not truly Grace we're talking about wages here about earnings and this isn't just my Western interpretation Muhammad
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in his book the Islamic conception of God he is an a Muslim uh explains the attribute of God being all merciful by saying God God rewards our Deeds fully that's what the mercy of God means he rewards our Deeds fully and he says we
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cannot have the least doubt that he will respond to our love by his you see it's conditional it's to those who love him those are the ones he assigns love to so the Quran says things like God loves
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those with Good Will toward others God loves those who incline to him God loves those who are clean of heart God loves those who are ready to fight in his cause God loves those who prove steadfast in Trials well how do you
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measure up does God love you not unless you measure up to those standards now Dr badawi says well look it just means that God doesn't love the unbelievers Deeds and he loves the Deeds of the Believers well I hope that's true
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I really do but that's not what the Quran says and he didn't give any argument or proof for that exegesis the plain statements of the Quran are that God is an enemy to unbelievers he doesn't love them he loves those who
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love him and do good uh Dr badui says in fact then he goes on to say I reject the idea of God's equal love of Sinner and believer well that is exactly my point the most perfect being must love Sinner and
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believer alike that doesn't mean he blinks at sin on the contrary he he must punish sin and that's why Christ had to die but God's love is the greatest conceivable being must be impartial and unconditional Dr buddy we quotes the
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Hadith but all that proves it best is that it contradicts the Quran not that that it's correct and besides even in those quotations he read God's love was still conditional so I'm not convinced that the Islamic conception of God is
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morally adequate remember my second point was that it's also historically inadequate it calls Jesus merely a prophet it incorporates legendary stories it denies the crucifixion it embellishes the birth story with theology he didn't deny any of these points so I think we have good reasons
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for thinking that the Islamic conception of God is Not wholly adequate and therefore not wholly true thank you it appears that Dr Craig has been attributing things to me and putting words in my mouth that I never said
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I never said that the Bible is authentic and the fact that I'm quoting from the Bible means simply that I'm establishing evidence from the scripture that you believe in Dr Craig puts in my mouth that I said that the resurrection of Jesus after the
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three days is correct I never said that and your witnesses to that I think Dr Craig is making his own interpretation of my statement which is totally wrong number two again Dr Craig goes to the notion of son
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of man in fact the more frequent expression that is found in the New Testament that Jesus refers to himself is not the unique Son of God this is an interpretation not the words of Jesus himself it is actually more use of the
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son of man not Son of God like one scholar once put it God has Sons by the tons the question of serving God Jesus himself indicated in more than one occasion that he came to serve God and he teach people to serve God which again
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indicate that servantip is not just a quranic concept but is a Biblical concept to be found in Hebrew scripture and the New Testament alike when Dr Craig refers to the statement that Jesus is the one who knows the
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father because he's in the bosom of the father as biblical scholar also explain bosom of the father is a reference to the emotional or spiritual union which could happen also with other people does not carry any implication of divinity
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whatsoever uh Dr Craig also attribute to me that I acknowledge what is in mark 33 no Dr Craig I never said that Dr Craig mentioned earlier also about the apocryphal thing and he said that the prophet Prophet Muhammad peace be upon
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Him based some of the material like the gospel of infancy but I go back and ask Dr Craig who classified what is apocryphal and what is canonical these were decisions made by human beings sometimes even were subject to change and modification and
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who knows that these books that were regarded as Apocrypha were not really falsified or fabrication but might have carried ingredients of truth that were lost through the process of communication or writing and rewriting the scripture we never found anyone who
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claims that we have the entire words of Jesus in the Aramaic language he spoke with ample evidence that it has came to us exactly as he uttered them Dr Craig criticizes John Hicks and saying that he lost his face I think
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it's easy to label people that we disagree with it is not only Dr Craig Dr hex as you know if you have read Dr hex's book it's not the only writer he's only the editor and there are papers
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contributed by seven or eight and furthermore before I show you this one he said that this is a poor translation that I was referring to earlier on Greek this is not my translation this is based on a book written by a Christian
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Theologian and former clergy who did not lose his face because he speaks very highly of Jesus it's called Jesus Christ is not God I think in a scholarly type of setting we don't just dismiss people and giving them labels oh these are
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liberal Scholars these are lost their face if there is argument let's argue on the merits of the case at question he said that Jesus forgive and that's a quality of God but we have a parallel also in the Quran in fact which means
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that even when Jesus or Muhammad peace be upon Him indicate that someone is Forgiven it does not mean that they are claiming the authority of God to forgive but they receive give the Revelation from God that they are forgiving those
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of you are familiar with the Quran references that people have been forgiven this is not a claim made by the prophet on his authority but information just as Jesus was given information on the question of Resurrection again Dr
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Speaker A
Craig puts word in my mind I didn't say we Muslims believe in this I said even if this case is true even for the sake of discussion it does not attribute Divinity to any person that's uh that's not the case at all in terms to base
67:08
Speaker A
such an important aspect of divinity on but Dr Craig repeated himself again when he came to this moral adequacy and I kept repeating again and I thought explained it enough that there is a distinction between God saying I don't
67:23
Speaker A
love bias and I love virtue and if God doesn't say that in some form or the other whether he says about those who do that or to say it directly that I don't love that act and I love that act then
67:34
Speaker A
there is moral inadequacy of that type of God and again I take issue with the quotation made by Dr Craig from other authorities who apparently also know very little about the Quran that nowhere in the Quran say that God love Humanity what would you
67:49
Speaker A
say Dr Craig and your Source about the verse in 2017 in the Quran known as which says indeed we honor the children of Adam it doesn't say believer or non-believers how about the numerous verses in the Quran that says God breathed into every
68:06
Speaker A
human being something of his spirit I think he were far off and your Authority was as well far off on that with all due respect when you talk about quoting me again in my presence from my little booklet or
68:19
Speaker A
brochure I think what you forgot Dr Murray is that for Muslims Hadith or saying of the Prophet peace be upon him are not contradictory to the Quran they elaborate explain and articulate the meaning of the Quran and to us hadees
68:34
Speaker A
also is another form of Revelation which even if it's it's not the name the exact words of God they are the inspired meaning with the prophet using his own words and if you have read that in my brochure
68:48
Speaker A
Dr Craig I have lots of other material as well that made reference to Prophet Muhammad peace be upon him saying it quite clearly none of you he said will enter Paradise just because of your righteous Deeds they said even your messenger of God he
69:04
Speaker A
said even me had it not been for the mercy and grace of God so this is not a point of contention between Islam and Christianity that ultimately the grace of God is what counts if you live like a
69:17
Speaker A
saint all of your life sacrifice everything it would not be enough to equate the gift of sight that God has given you you don't enter Paradise but you did this is spiritual arrogance we both agree on that but all we're saying
69:30
Speaker A
that that grace of God is there available for anyone but we have to take a step the grace is available and I say I reject you I don't believe in you I do everything again it's your will now give
69:39
Speaker A
me your grace that is not logical so we're saying that Faith translated in Good Deeds shows the good will not that this will enter us into Paradise but would make us deserve the grace of God the other point also that uh
69:55
Speaker A
about the crucifixion I'd like to clarify one thing about it for the Muslim Quran is the word of God even if 99.9 of humanity agrees on one thing and God say something to the Muslim this is the word of God and like I said nobody
70:09
Speaker A
can really give absolutely conclusive proof and when Dr Craig used the term consensus of the scholar about the crucifixion and empty Tom there are also other Scholars who take a different view there are Scholars who analyze the story
70:20
Speaker A
of crucifixion and resurrection of Jesus even in the canonical gospels and they found irreconcilable contradiction did they go Before Sunrise or after Sunrise was it Mary or Mary the Magdalene and the other Mary or Mary and the other women and
70:35
Speaker A
what did they see was it inside was it outside there are lots of issues like this some might say all right we can reconcile some but obviously if you take the dozens of contradiction in the story it might is this question what happened
70:47
Speaker A
to Judas one story said that he fell and his tummy was opened and he died another one he said he go and hanged himself one story that said this was before he he returned the money to the Jews in the
70:59
Speaker A
temple the other one said it was after this or that he used the money to buy a farm or ocean so there are lots of questions the consensus that Dr Craig is talking about is really far from uh unanimous but the
71:12
Speaker A
most important thing really to realize is that while crucifixion and Resurrection which by the way didn't say I recognize I said you recognize I was discussing by your measures in the Bible uh is the heart and I agree for the
71:27
Speaker A
Christian theology is the heart of the teaching of Christianity for Islam it doesn't make any difference whatsoever if Jesus was crucified and resurrected or not if he resurrected God resurrected him and God is superior to him and he's
71:41
Speaker A
the servant of God if he were crucified for the sake of argument it doesn't make any difference theologically in Islam because the death crucifixion or murder of any Prophet does not make him Divine in the time of Jesus Zechariah Prophet
71:55
Speaker A
zakariah was killed also John the Baptist was beheaded it doesn't make a person really Divine because he was martyred for a cause that he espoused in fact this very fact proves the honesty of prophet Muhammad peace be upon him
72:11
Speaker A
and the fact that he did not write the Quran and did not think like politicians because the issue of crucifixion was a very very common belief among Christians why should he come into conflict with them if he were the author of the Quran
72:24
Speaker A
he could have easily told them all right Jesus was killed and resurrected but so what it doesn't make any difference this has nothing to do with the vicarious sacrifice God is not interested in blood so he was martyred in his cause the fact
72:37
Speaker A
that he stands and revealed and recite exactly what revealed to him contrary to the consensus but not all the unanimity of his contemporaries in fact shows that he is simply communicating what God has revealed to him um what else
72:55
Speaker A
I think I covered a whole lot and very quickly all right the other thing that I take issue with Dr Craig when he says Muhammad wrote the Quran this is not just a statement to face to say that the
73:06
Speaker A
prophet did not write the Quran but there is ample evidence in fact rational evidence including scientific evidence which shows that the prophet could have never been the author of the Quran that Dr Craig Rejects and considers to be
73:20
Speaker A
morally inadequate in fact in the Quran we find my new description of early embryonic stages that has raised wonders in one of the world's famous embryologists Dr Keith Moore and said it is impossible because many of the information contained in the
73:39
Speaker A
Quran were only discovered after the discovery of the electronic microscopes there are historical things that were not known that was mentioned were mentioned in the Quran to be discovered only 14 centuries later Dr bouquet mentioned for example about the
73:53
Speaker A
discovery of the body of the Pharaoh of The Exodus that the Bible say nothing about the Quran mentioned using space technology something that was mentioned in the Quran and believed by some of the orientalists to be mythical the city of
74:08
Speaker A
Iran in Eden again only after the space technology was discovered and before that even 1975 only when the city of ibla was discovered in Syria and they found in some of the ancient Semitic tablets that this city actually was dealing or trading
74:30
Speaker A
with another city by the name of Aram that was the first time the name Aram came to be real not mythical using the challenge and other spaceships there was an agreement by some archaeologists and NASA and they send
74:42
Speaker A
waves and finally they pinpoint the place where the city of Iran was dug and behold the exact description that appeared in the Quran the lofty pillars were actually discovered there are things that has been mentioned in the Bible about the
75:00
Speaker A
Pharaohs and the Bible always use the Pharaohs the Quran make a distinction at the time of Joseph it says it was king at the time of Moses pharaoh and there is a great deal of significant historically in view of the invasion of
75:12
Speaker A
the hexus and the change of the titles of the rulers of Egypt at the same time there are a lot more than that and I think we better review our assumption again I must say Dr Craig you tried your
75:22
Speaker A
best I commend you but you haven't proved anything let me summarize briefly those two contentions I said I would defend tonight first are there good reasons to think think the Christian concept of God is true it seems to me that we've
75:36
Speaker A
definitely seen that there are first that Jesus claimed to be the unique Divine Son of God Dr badawi says in his last speech oh you accuse me of saying things I never said what I meant was that he didn't refute the things thereby
75:49
Speaker A
he gave tacit admission in the debate to them and that he didn't dispute them he hasn't disputed the authenticity of any of the sayings of Jesus that I gave and moreover I don't think he's been able to Rob them of their full theological
76:02
Speaker A
significance consider the parable of the vineyard all he's able to say is the word servant is often used in the Bible of human figures fine but that says absolutely nothing about the significance of the parable where Jesus differentiates himself from all the
76:16
Speaker A
prophets by being God's unique and special son Matthew 11 27 he's dropped the point about God or Jesus being the only revelation of God the father he responds to John 1 18 by saying the Divine bosom of the father doesn't mean
76:30
Speaker A
that he's God granted it's the phrase the only begotten God that indicates Jesus Divinity he didn't dispute that Mark 13 32 again he dropped that point instead he turns to my point about Jesus for giving sense by saying well in the
76:46
Speaker A
Quran the property of forgiving sins is ascribed to people but that's irrelevant what's in the Quran the question is in the Jewish context in first century Palestine was this possible for a human being to do no as we've seen that was
76:59
Speaker A
Blasphemous because only God can do it and yet Jesus did so finally about Thomas saying my Lord and my God he says this isn't a bad translation my point here is that the Greek is clear I've got a Greek New Testament here and the words
77:13
Speaker A
are the god of me and the Lord of me and that is a full christological confession to the deity of Christ so we've seen no good reason to dispute my first point that the historical Jesus can see himself to be the Divine Son of God
77:28
Speaker A
second his resurrection vindicates his radical claim notice that in tonight's debate Dr Buddy has not disputed the facts of the empty tomb the resurrection appearances or the origin of the Christian faith all he said now in the last speech is this remarkable statement
77:44
Speaker A
but I could admit these things and it doesn't make any difference of course it makes a difference because then the Quran is wrong because the Quran says Jesus was not crucified much less raised from the dead so if you're going to
77:59
Speaker A
Grant these things then you cannot be a Muslim so it seems to me that this is critical to the debate this evening moreover I argue that the resurrection in the historical context in which it occurred confirms Jesus's radical claims
78:14
Speaker A
for which he was crucified if God raised this man from the dead that is God's Divine imprimatur or Vindication of those allegedly Blasphemous claims for which he was crucified so I think we've got very good reasons for affirming the
78:28
Speaker A
Christian concept of God oh God pardon me what about the reasons for thinking the Islamic conception of God is true I argued that the Islamic conception is morally inadequate because God is not all loving Dr Buddy repeats his
78:43
Speaker A
assertion that these expressions in the Quran mean I love Vice I mean I love virtue and hate Vice but the problem is that's not what it says it says I love not unbeliever Sinners the proud and so forth he says but the Quran says we
78:59
Speaker A
honor the children of Adam we give our spirit to man yes it says that but nowhere does the Quran affirm that God loves unbelievers that God loves Sinners he only loves those who love him his love is conditional and partial he says
79:13
Speaker A
but you don't end up in heaven because of your righteous Deeds perhaps not but they are a prerequisite and therefore if you do not have them God does not love you and that is the bottom line in the
79:25
Speaker A
Quran but that's a morally inadequate conception of God I I submit secondly is the concept of Jesus historically inadequate here Dr buddy we hasn't been able to defend the conception of Jesus in the Quran at all only by saying that
79:38
Speaker A
the story in the infancy Gospel of Thomas maybe should be regarded as inspired after all now that's incredible because that's a forgery from two or three hundred years after the death of Christ moreover it contains horrid stories about the boy Jesus striking his
79:54
Speaker A
Playmates dead because they don't do the things he wants it's Dr butter we seriously going to say that's inspired of God and that's why it can be included in the Quran that's incredible he says there are other Scholars who deny the
80:06
Speaker A
crucifixion of Jesus I am so confident that that it's false I challenge him to name one there is no New Testament scholar who denies the crucifixion of Jesus so I think the Quran clearly has a historically inadequate conception of
80:20
Speaker A
Christ in closing I simply want to say that I myself was not raised in a Christian home but as a teenager I began to read the pages of the New Testament and I found the person of Jesus of Nazareth to
80:32
Speaker A
be arresting and captivating after a six-month search I came to give my life to him personally and I experienced God in a transforming manner I believe that you can find him in the same way if you will search for him search the New
80:47
Speaker A
Testament with all your heart and ask if this really couldn't be the truth I think it can change your life in the same way it changed mine thank you [Applause] [Music] first of all I'd like to correct you Dr
81:02
Speaker A
Craig striking Jesus striking someone to this is not in the Quran give me the reference that there is no reference to that whatsoever in the Quran secondly keep putting the word in my mouth that I recognize Resurrection and crucifixion but let me conclude
81:18
Speaker A
first by saying the Hebrew scripture which is the basis and the foundation of Christian belief does not have any reference whatsoever to the concept of Trinity and the word Trinity appeared nowhere in the scriptures in fact the Old Testament makes it clear
81:36
Speaker A
that it is a blasphemy again is God to associate any with him in his Divine attributes secondly in the New Testament we fail to find any conclusive more clear statement not arguable statement that could be interpreted in more than one way that
81:51
Speaker A
shows that Jesus indeed claimed to be divine if he were divine would have put it in no uncertain terms and not cause confusion even amongst theologians themselves thirdly when you say that he did not give adequate reason why Islamic
82:06
Speaker A
conception is correct I say Dr Greg the onus is on you when somebody is born of a woman and according to the Book of Job chapter 25 Verses 4 and 6 nobody can be perfect or complete who is born of a woman
82:20
Speaker A
and walked was circumcised eight went to the washroom lived and slept like all other human beings then the owners of anyone claiming him to be God must be on the one who make that claim not the other way around you don't tell
82:35
Speaker A
me proof that he's human because definitely he was human it is the evidence otherwise that is not available fourthly the other side of the coin that I think we should conclude with I believe which is very important and they kept that to
82:51
Speaker A
the end we all know that God is Not subordinate to anyone is not inferior to anyone he's the ultimate of power this is accepted by all abrahamic faith yet look at this statements I can do nothing of my own authority I
83:05
Speaker A
seek not my will but the will of him who sent me John 5 30. but I do as the father has commanded me John 14 31 the words that I say to you I do not speak of my own authority John 14 10 including
83:20
Speaker A
informing the person that is Forgiven I do nothing of my own authority but speak thus as the father taught me John 8 28. but now you seek to kill me a man not the unique Son of God a man who has
83:35
Speaker A
told you the truth which I heard from God God doesn't hear from anyone John 8 40. for the father is greater than I John 14 28 but of that day the day of judgment the hour no one knows I think
83:49
Speaker A
that has been acknowledged already knowledge of the Unseen is a prerequisite of God in addition to his statements you are also told that Jews Jesus was circumcised in Luke 2 21. it is difficult to figure out how or why
84:03
Speaker A
God need to be circumcised when circumcision itself is a sign of a covenant between God and the descendants of Abraham we are also told that Jesus was increased in wisdom Luke 252 while God's wisdom is eternal and immutable
84:19
Speaker A
The Story of Temptation contradicts the statement in James 1 13 that God cannot be tempted by evil what is obvious from the Bible both all the New Testament that Jesus was a devout servant of God not his equal
84:33
Speaker A
Jesus prayed to God himself he fell on his face and worshiped God but more surprisingly more surprisingly in The Gospel according to John Jesus saying I am ascending to my father and your father my God God my God and
84:54
Speaker A
your God God does not Ascend to sit on the right hand of himself that he is ascending to his God and that again is a question about Resurrection Muslim do not rule out the possibility that the Quran says Jesus ascended to Heaven
85:08
Speaker A
There is some form of Ascension there is some form of crucifixion the explanation of which might vary and while some of the writers of the New Testament tended to use this allegorical Expressions to express the love of Jesus
85:22
Speaker A
they did not go as far even as the later dogmas did for example in the first Timothy chapter 2 verse 5 we read for there is one God and there is one mediator between God and man the man Jesus Christ I believe
85:38
Speaker A
the evidence is overwhelming that what happened in history was a complete change many people have been asking about a religion about Jesus but they never asked the right question what was the religion of Jesus the religion of Jesus was Islam's submission to God
85:57
Speaker A
the same that was taught by Abraham Noah Adam and concluded by Prophet Muhammad peace be upon him what happened historically really was a change of a religion of Jesus to a religion about Jesus as Muslims we follow the religion
86:12
Speaker A
of Jesus we love him and adore him as a great prophet thank you
Topics:William Lane CraigJamal BadawiChristianityIslamJesusTrinityresurrectionChristian-Muslim debatereligious pluralismQuran

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