Speaker A
The police put a unit car outside so that no one would throw stones or something else through the window.
Interview with Viktor Mokhov, the Skopinsky Maniac, exploring his prison experience, psychology, and aftermath of his crimes.
Key Takeaways
- Sex offenders in Russian prisons face severe social stigma and harsh treatment.
- Mokhov exhibits limited emotional understanding and refuses to express remorse.
- Expert profiling helps contextualize Mokhov’s behavior compared to other serial killers.
- The victims of Mokhov have moved on with their lives, highlighting complex post-crime dynamics.
- The interview sheds light on the difficulties of addressing violent sexual crimes within the justice system.
What the video covers
- Viktor Mokhov, known as the Skopinsky Maniac, was released after 17 years in prison during Putin's presidency.
- The video includes an interview with Mokhov discussing his prison life, treatment of sex offenders, and his lack of emotional reflection.
- An expert profiler compares Mokhov's personality and crimes to other Russian serial killers, highlighting his hedonistic and unemotional traits.
- Mokhov describes the harsh prison hierarchy, where sex offenders are treated as the 'lowest caste' and face social isolation and abuse.
- He denies self-reflection or remorse, claiming all his character traits are good and downplays his crimes as a 'slip-up.'
- The interview touches on Mokhov's relationships with his victims and their current lives, including their marriages and children.
- The video shows scenes from Mokhov's former property, including a bunker-like garage and interactions with family members.
- There is a segment explaining COVID-19 rapid testing procedures, unrelated to the main interview.
- The transcript reveals the psychological and social complexities of dealing with notorious criminals post-release.
- The video provides insights into Russian prison culture, criminal profiling, and the challenges of rehabilitation.
Chapters
- 00:00Police protection and Mokhov's release
- 00:47Prison life and treatment of sex offenders
- 02:35Expert profiling of Mokhov's personality
- 04:37Mokhov’s reflections on prison and crimes
- 06:55Victims’ current lives and family dynamics
- 09:10Exploring Mokhov’s former property and bunker
- 11:41COVID-19 rapid testing demonstration
- 14:48Additional interviews and closing remarks
Full Transcript — Download SRT & Markdown
Speaker A
You never know, someone could break into the house. Here they are, keeping watch, that’s great.
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Since I’ve been back, I drink beer to get my bearings and to forget a little.
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I was sent to prison while Putin was in power, was set free under Putin, and will most likely die while he is still in power.
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In early March, after 17 years in prison, Viktor Mokhov was released. Ksenia, let’s drink to your health.
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Do you like the increased levels of attention you have been getting? Yeah, I love it.
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Everyone was running around, the journalists waited for me when I got out, there were probably around 15 cars.
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Did you attract any attention in prison? Did they know your story? Everyone there knows. The whole country knows.
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Everyone in prison knew, of course. Some people come by now and go: oh, Mokhov.
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I saw you on TV while I was still in school. Many people know about me.
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We have asked Anna Kulik, an independent expert profiler, to comment on our interview with the Skopin Maniac.
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She works with the FSB and the Investigative Committee. The image that we have, to which we are all accustomed, is that a maniac is someone who is bloodthirsty or… With whom it is scary to even be in the same room,
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because they might immediately pounce at you… Well, in this case, Mokhov is not like that.
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He was always used to being a simple man who adapts to the situation and keeps a low profile.
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Compared to other maniacs like Pichushkin, Popkov, or Angarsky, who are aggressive and who used their personal ideology, power, and aggressiveness to commit the most savage, scary crimes, Mokhov seems quite humble and unpretentious, obsessed with sex, a hedonist, but also not very emotional nor intellectual.
Speaker A
As far as I can tell, according to all the stories in the press, people who are sent to prison with that conviction are treated really badly.
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That is, they either get killed or they degrade them. There were a lot of people with me in prison who had raped children and killed them, who had raped women and killed them.
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So, what happened to them? They are treated as the "lowest caste." Some are degraded, others aren't.
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And what do you mean by "treated as the 'lowest caste'?" Well, they offer... Well, they put them in the lowest category.
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They do the dirtiest and hardest work. You go into the dining room and there are separate tables for us, the dishes they use are separate.
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They wash and store everything separately. And this happens from the very first day you get to prison?
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How does that happen? Yes, they will immediately tell you: "Go over to the ‘lowest caste.’" - Does the head office make that decision? - Both the head office and the convicts themselves.
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Those convicted of sex crimes are told to go over to the ‘lowest caste.’ Otherwise, you will be in trouble.
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So the convicts accept that. So they threaten them? Well, they don't threaten, they say that you will have it bad, something vague like that.
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And is it a myth that the people who are serving their sentence for such crimes usually get raped?
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Sometimes they get raped. It happens. What does it depend on? Well, it might depend on the person. I don’t know.
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- That is, no one even tried to approach you? - No. I am elderly, nobody is interested in me.
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And some young prisoners get raped, it happens, it’s degrading. Here you can see that, most likely, of course, he is not telling us the whole story.
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But for him it’s just... Well, for all of them, this is a topic that’s utterly horrible to talk about.
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This is probably the most painful topic... Many of them are even prepared to tell you all about their barbaric acts, speak to psychologists, with all the specialists, reveal their inner motives.
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But this topic, concerning their imprisonment, in the hierarchy of things is always very painful and stressful.
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Moreover, he himself is a... Why did he choose young girls? He explained it to us – so that he feels like an alpha male.
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And what kind of alpha male can be put in the ‘lowest caste’? Have you never asked yourself the question where the craving for violence against women came from?
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No. First of all, there is very little free time in prison for those offenders like myself.
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We spent all day cleaning: scrubbing floors, cleaning rooms, we picked up trash on the whole territory.
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There is little free time. - So you haven’t done any self-reflection? - No. I’ve paid my dues, of course, what should I do now, beat myself up for the rest of my life?
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The girls are doing well now, and that makes me happy. Everything worked out well for them.
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If you could get rid of some of your character traits, which ones would they be?
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Which ones? All my character traits are good. I have no bad traits. Do you consider yourself to be a good person?
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I had a slip-up. It happens to everyone. All the questions about any kind of self-reflection or digging deep, about feelings and emotions, just seem to fall on deaf ears.
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He doesn't understand them. It’s like we’re trying to speak our own language to a native speaker of another language.
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This is not his language. The language of emotions and feelings is not for him, he doesn’t understand it.
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You never know how big the trees will become. When I was convicted, some of the trees were this big, there were just some bushes.
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And now look at them, they’re huge. Both of the girls are married now. I have always been happy for their successes.
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Lena became an English teacher. She studied English in the bunker, I bought her dictionaries, textbooks.
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Katya was a seamstress, a craftswoman. Katya lived there, she did not give birth. And Lena gave birth. And now the situation is reversed.
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Katya gave birth, but Lena did not. She gave birth to my children and hasn’t had any more.
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I don’t know anything. I should probably check in on her. There are only men in prison, they aren’t...
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they don’t interest me. And as soon as you see a woman, your mood lifts straight away.
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Here is the entrance to the garage. I don’t have the key now, it’s closed.
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Be careful here, look. You haven’t been here before? No, I’ve never been here... - You mean at the basement? - Yes.
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- No. - Here’s the entrance. You get the feeling that this is a real bunker.
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Like a bunker from Stalin’s era, right? You can’t see it straight away. Everything looks the same.
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- Grandma, did you know what happened here? - Here’s another! How could I have known?! I would have immediately reported it to the police!
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And whose garage is this? - What do you mean? - Whose is it, who does it belong to?
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Who else? To him, of course, it’s not mine. - So this is some man’s garage? - Yes.
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- And what is his name? - Her son. - Well, son. - Is this your son?
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Who else would it be?! My son. He is the owner. Open up. Yes, pick it up on this side.
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They’re also closed over there. - Should the light be turned on there? - The light is on there, there is light.
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Girls, are you alive in there? - Soon? - Soon, soon. Have some patience. Hello. I am visiting Mikhail Ivanovich.
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Oh sure! Here are the documents. This one confirms I have no criminal record. This is my birth certificate.
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This is my marital status certificate. This document confirms the fact that I didn’t have contact with any foreign intelligence agency.
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My pets and children also had no contact with foreign intelligence. This is a certificate confirming I am not possessed by any demons.
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This one confirms I use foul language only on special occasions and not in public places.
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- That’s not all. - What else? Oh! I forgot! A COVID-19 test! - What a nightmare! - Ksenia Anatolyevna, take this.
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- What is it? - This is the American alternative for a PCR test. A careUS rapid test by Avivir.
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It determines the presence of COVID in five minutes. It’s empty! And this is so that you know what it looks like.
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By the way, it’s only available at "Gemotest." But soon it will be available in
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There is a Gemotest branch around the corner, you can take care of everything in five minutes.
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Thank you! I will be right back! The careUS COVID-19 Antigen test is a fast and accurate alternative for a PCR test.
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To get tested, a swab is taken from the nostril, mixed with reagents and dripped onto the test strip.
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And in five minutes you find out your COVID status. Dmitry Matveevich Plotkin I am a top level investigator at the prosecutor's office for the Ryazan region.
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When I started to work as an investigator, I had this somewhat romantic notion that everything will be interesting – like they show in the movies.
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I came in my ironed trousers, had my white shirt on. And then I get a call: you know, they said, there’s this railway station, next to the bus station, and there’s a public toilet in between them.
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And there’s this cesspit covered with a board. And some kids looked inside, and, out of the shit, excuse my language – there was probably two meters of shit in there, if not more – a human hand was sticking out.
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And I had to dig a human body out of this sludge. And the worst thing was that I had to wash it out on the spot, with the crowd looking on.
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There was nothing left of my white shirt. And that’s when I realized that there will be minimal amounts of romance involved.
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It's going to be hard work and I will have to do it. That’s when I started to put on only dark shirts.
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September 30, 2000. Ryazan. Elena Samokhina (who was 17 at the time) and the 14-year-old Katya Martynova were returning home from the festivities held for celebrating the holiday called Faith, Hope, Love.
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A beige LADA 2015 pulls up with Viktor Mokhov behind the wheel. Sitting next to him was a man who introduced himself as Lyosha.
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The men said to the girls: “Why are you waiting for the bus here? Come on, get in the car and we'll give you a lift." The girls were too relaxed about it.
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They gave them alcohol. We presume that the drinks were spiked, of course. The girls passed out and woke up in an unknown place.
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We drove into the courtyard, then we entered the garage and I said: “Come on, let's do this, have sex." "No, no," she said, "you're old." Well, I went to the other one, to Lena.
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I say: "Len, she doesn't want to." Lena came over: “What, are you, – she says, – out of your mind?
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There’s a dog outside, can you hear it? I’ll unleash the dog on you." Well, that was it, she agreed.
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And then Lena said: “Come on, fuck this one too, the other Lena.” I said: "Ok, let's try." But she wouldn’t do it.
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Well, Lena pounced at her, started to choke her. I climbed onto her and took off her panties.
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Then I heard that Lena was already wheezing. I said: “What are you doing? I need to fuck her, and you’re choking her!" Let’s look back to childhood.
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So the mom… There is a girl here who is refusing... this girl, who is supposed to be an easy girl, but she refused.
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And he did not start demanding anything on his own, or... He went and asked a woman, Elena, his accomplice at that time, to persuade her.
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So he needed the support of a strong woman. Why was Badukina interested in participating in this whole thing?
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Was she a lesbian or something? She was a lesbian, of course. She served her sentence with a woman called Inna, she is a lesbian.
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She's aggressive. They say she used to beat up girls when she was in school.
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In her own way, she probably hates girls. And, by the way, the girls believed up until the last moment… They only found out during the investigation that there wasn’t a Lyosha, but that it was Lena all along.
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It seems to me that this was also a shock for them. Something broke... Now the door won’t open either.
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Wait, the stairs… Nobody get out yet, girls. - Don’t take photos of us, what are you doing?! - Quiet, quiet, quiet!
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Be quiet! - Oh, are you going to film? - Of course. How many of you are here, two?
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Two. And there were two. What is your last name, first name, patronymic. I am Victor Vasilievich Mokhov.
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Where do you work? I work at the Skopinsky Automotive Aggregate Plant, at the seventh workshop, I’m a sharpener.
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On the outside, he was a nice guy. A handy guy. He was the plant’s best sharpener.
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He was a model communist worker. He was a member of the party. He would leave his children do you know on which streets?
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He left one child in Lenin Square, and the other on Karl Marx Street. Take that to mean whatever you want.
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So this 50-year-old man was not satisfied. And so, at the age of 50, he decided make up for lost time.
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I thought they were easy. I offered to have sex, but she refused. - So, she refused. - Yes.
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So why did they even take a ride there – had wine with us and took a ride with us?
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What? So you thought that they had to do the act since they had some wine with you?
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Well, since they got in the car – why did they get in the car then?
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To just have some wine and then go our separate ways? Well, maybe they just wanted to, I don't know, to just get together and not have it turn into something more.
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That can also happen. Well, I took them to be prostitute and that’s why when they refused, it somehow… It didn’t make sense.
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And if a girl is prostitute, then you can basically do anything you want with her?
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Not anything, but you can sleep with her. Especially if she gets in the car voluntarily.
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And drinks wine with us. I left them there and said: “You can live, you will be like sex slaves.
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I won’t kill you." There are some serial criminals who not only rape, but also kill, they have this thing: if a man has done something wrong, in this case, a woman – if she had something to drink, then that’s it, she’s not worthy of life anymore and
Speaker A
you can do whatever you want with her. He has no such ideology. There is no clear gradation with him – I will take these, but not others.
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He feels that he can do something to anyone who cannot fight back. Katya was put in the basement first.
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Then Lena began to ask where Katya was, and they said: "Well let's go, we will take you to Katya." They also brought her to the basement. She entered, and the hatch slammed behind her.
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There’s this metal door first then the safe door, then you get to the first level, and the next hatch opens to the side.
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Then a few meters away, there are stairs leading down to the second level. And then, at the third level there is a hatch opening into this basement.
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They ended up in this basement. At first, I don’t think he went down to see them on the first day or even the second.
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Apparently, he made it clear to them that he has the power over them. Then, of course, he brought them water, something to eat, some eggs.
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By the way, they fried eggs and cooked pasta in a kettle. Some pots appeared later.
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This is how this whole saga began. He raped them periodically. In case they tried to argue, he would immediately say: "I'll cut off your oxygen." I spent several hours there and, in general...
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...I felt... In three hours I felt what the girls could have felt over the course of three years.
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How are our parents, do they know anything? Now, don't worry, girls, everything will be fine now.
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We just want to film the whole thing. Don't you worry, okay? - There is nothing wrong with that. - Yes, we are not worried.
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- We are more worried than you. - Yes... We have already stopped worrying. How long have you been here?
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Since September 30, 2000. - Have you been living here for four years?! - Four years?
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Can you imagine, here? Look what... And there was no way to escape. And when we got here it was just… A nightmare!
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It's hot here, how can you stand it in here? - And in winter, also... - And in winter, yes.
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No, Victor, he took us out from time to time it was sometime around… He started to take us out in 2003, from the fall, from the beginning of the fall.
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And before that they did not go anywhere at all. What's your name? Which one of you is pregnant?
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- Martynova Ekaterina Valerievna. - I'm pregnant. They sentenced him to seventeen years. He has raped more than once.
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He raped me and Lena, so… I was raped about 900 times, so was she.
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I think he should be charged for every instance of rape, in my opinion. And this needs to be changed, some laws need to be changed.
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So he raped us 900 times, and he should be sentenced to 900 years in prison.
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That’s what I think. Can you roughly describe your daily routine? Just one of your typical days.
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Of course, we tried to somehow recreate a normal life in the bunker. So we had breakfast, he would bring us cereal, pasta, canned meat – those things that don’t need to be in a refrigerator.
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There were some seasonal vegetables and Antonovka apples. I still remember the smell I really don't like it.
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I drew, wrote poetry, if I had inspiration. Lena studied English. You delivered Lena's baby.
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You, a little girl. - They gave you a book… - Yes. On how to do it.
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A medical handbook. There was a lot of incomprehensible terminology. And the only thing that I understood is that the umbilical cord needs to be cut because the child needs to be separated from the placenta.
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I did not understand what was the placenta and what is the umbilical cord, but it had to be cut.
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And when she gave birth, then I saw it all in real life. Did you have something like, I don't know, a basin, some water?
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Yes, I prepared a bowl of warm water. There were some... ...we tore up some sheets to swaddle the baby.
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We were prepared. We prepared what we could, yes. And then, when Lena gave birth, I cut the umbilical cord...
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- With what? - With scissors. And I remember that the scissors were blunt, it took me so long to cut it.
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The whole thing was terrible, everything was covered in blood, my hands shook as I was doing all of this.
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I tied it over with a thread because I also read that in the handbook.
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And I started, I took the child in my arms, put it in the basin, I realized that the water was cold, he started crying very hard.
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And I got very scared that he would get sick, he was barely born, and I was putting him in this cold water.
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I immediately swaddled him in a sheet and gave him to Lena. Well it was... Of course, the whole thing felt like delirium.
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And as I’m retelling it now, I see this bunker in my mind. And everything is dimmed, but I still remember it all.
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This is the house where, in the third entrance, Mokhov left his second child, Olezhka.
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Anything is possible, right? Well, it wasn’t normal for children to be left at other people’s doors.
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I was watching TV and heard a crying baby. I stood up and said: “What is going on? They can’t get the child to calm down.” It made me nervous.
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I went to the kitchen, opened the door to the apartment. I had a door here.
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As I was opening the door I saw him lying on the ground. He had a note on him.
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"My neim is Oleg". That’s not how you spell that. “He is 4 (a digit) months...
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mounth"... Basically, the note was full of spelling mistakes. The girls wanted to give away where they were being held using the note.
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They really actually wrote a note saying, "we were kidnapped." And the first child, he kidnapped it, while they were sleeping.
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And they understood straight away that he would kidnap their second child too and leave it somewhere.
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And they made a secret compartment in his diapers beforehand, they put this note inside, and waited.
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And he undressed the baby when he took it out from the suitcase and found this note.
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He threw their note away, and in its place Mokhov himself then wrote… - He wrote it himself. - Yes, he wrote it himself.
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And he made mistakes on purpose. He made it seem as if a stupid, uneducated girl had given birth to the baby.
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And did it not occur to you – you mentioned something once that you even wanted to adopt him.
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Yes, afterwards I... How old were you then, if it’s not a secret? Well, I'm 69 now, 17 years ago I was 52.
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Yes. I called my mom in the morning, and she was asking the usual questions, how I was.
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Yes, everything is fine, – I said, – the only thing is that a child was left on my doorstep.
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She said: "What child?" So I told her the story. She said: "And where did you put him?" I said: “Where? They took him to the maternity ward." She said: "Why didn't you keep it?" I said: “Mom, what do you mean? Keep a baby?"
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Did you not regret not having adopted him? Well, you know, now that I’m remembering it, and I think, probably, if I had known, it would have been, for me… It was a shock anyway, but if I had known the whole story, I don't know…
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Well how... I do not know. It’s unlikely. - The child is not responsible for... - It’s not their fault, but...
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The father's sins especially… But after all these interviews, he is right in front of my eyes, this Mokhov, this child.
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And I don't sleep at night, I think about them and think: “Well, how could this happen? How?" We talked to the investigator who was in charge of this case, and he said that when they found you, you and Lena,
Speaker A
the contrast was immediately visible. It was clear that Lena was broken, but you still had your strong spirit.
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At the same time, you were younger than her, when you were locked in the basement.
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You were 14 years old. Before this happened to me, I was such a coward, I was sort of shy, I remember what I was like, and I was so soft, spineless.
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My mom kept saying that I was weak. And when I got there I still don’t understand what happened.
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But I really wanted to live, seriously. I knew that there is life above ground, and I wondered why mine was being taken away from me, why I had to obey someone.
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And everything changed in me in one moment. And I think that it was actually the bunker that made me who I am when I came out of there.
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Very strong and tough, you could probably say very level-headed. And Lena, she... On the contrary, she always seemed unshakeable to me.
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And when we spoke, after we’d gotten back home, I saw that it had been hard for her, that she doesn't want to remember.
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She doesn't want to see me. But she gave birth to children there, and it somehow left a… ...well, some kind of mark on her.
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Could it be that precisely because she was giving birth to children who were then taken away had such an effect on her?
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Yes, of course. I have children too, and I can’t imagine… If I gave birth to them and then and someone took them away from me?
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For any normal woman, this is a tragedy. Even though these were the children of a rapist.
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They are still your children, first and foremost. And he took them away. She cried a lot, she was worried. She really wanted to get them back.
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She said that if we freed ourselves and if we survived, she would definitely find them and take them back.
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But when we got home I think that her relatives probably insisted, or she spoke to her mom, and she was dissuaded from looking for the children and taking them back.
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And now she lives with the feeling that she has two sons somewhere. They are already adults.
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As far as I understand, when you got there you were still a virgin, right?
Speaker A
Yes. After the rape, you of course weren’t a virgin anymore, but you hadn't started your period.
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Yes. And you didn’t have your period the whole time you were enslaved in the basement.
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When you got out, how soon thereafter did you start getting your period? Two years later, at the age of 19.
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And then, when I wanted to have children, this... Well, I didn't want to have children, but I at least needed to understand if I could have children, as I was already married.
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I was told that I would not be able to have children. I had an ultrasound done, and then, when I was already 25 years old, I discovered that I was pregnant.
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I’d thought that I could not have children. And you will have a memento. We do not need reminders like this.
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Are these your drawings? Yes, I have been drawing. Well, there are pictures and drawings here.
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Sometimes, in order to justify their actions, a person chooses an aphorism to live by.
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A phrase, a sentence, in fact, your whole movie is why it happened. This is what he wrote: “Aging animals (dogs, cats) when communicating (meaning sexual intercourse) with the young, are also getting younger.
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So are people." Meaning, at the age of 50, he decided to become younger. Yes, you are holding Mokhov's unique note.
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And he took this from "Kamasutra". The most interesting thing is that he even marked the positions, which he wanted to try.
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"No good deed goes unpunished." So he basically thinks of himself as a person who has done good?
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By the way, this is what he said: “Why are you pestering me? I fed the girls, I gave them water, I gave them underwear..." By the way, he picked it out from catalogs.
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- Lingerie from catalogs? - Yes, panties. By the way, there was something very interesting, especially for you as a woman.
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He kept track of the expenses. We are all male investigators and we couldn't believe it: “On this exact date of the month they’d have their menstruation, do not give them panties." Why?
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So that the underwear wouldn’t get dirty and he wouldn't need to spend more money.
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I understand that, and then what? Where would it all go? How? Without panties? - They were in dirty underwear? - Well, yes.
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No, let it be their problem. He didn’t want… he bought panties, spent money on the panties.
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And if he gave them the panties, then they would stain and ruin them. So, in order for them not to ruin his property, he wouldn’t give them the panties when they had their female thing going on.
Speaker A
Katya, did you feel that he gave you any special treatment? As far as I understood, he almost never took Lena out for a walk, she did not go out at all, and didn’t wash herself.
Speaker A
Honestly, yes, I felt that maybe I... ...well, I can't say that he liked me, but still, there was some sort of… Well, some kind of special attitude towards me.
Speaker A
And, of course, I thought that I could take advantage of that when the moment presented itself.
Speaker A
Yes, I would go to his house at night, I washed myself in the shower.
Speaker A
Yes, he would take me out. But it didn't happen many times. - So this was the bathtub? - Yes.
Speaker A
And you waited for her here while she would wash herself, or? We bathed together.
Speaker A
- Together? - Of course. You didn’t leave her alone? I washed her back. Perhaps it was this affection he had for me that helped me to be here now, to free myself.
Speaker A
I have no more comments about his love. And, could someone like that even love someone?
Speaker A
I mean, love, it is... You give it to those people who... Well, definitely not to maniacs.
Speaker A
- Is he a maniac? - Yes. Perhaps you've discussed this, what criteria did he use to choose who to have sex with each time, who he would invite?
Speaker A
How did that happen? What was your daily routine and why? Was there any logic to who he would choose?
Speaker A
At first, yes, it was about whose turn it was – me, then Lena, then me, then Lena, and that went on day after day.
Speaker A
- But sometimes... - Every day? Yes, every day. Because he's a maniac, I believe he’s a real maniac, and also because he just had a lot of sexual energy and stamina.
Speaker A
At 50, not every man can have sex three times a week, and he could have sex several times a day when he had time on the weekends.
Speaker A
And he was just insatiable, I don’t know. So, over the course of these three years, seven months and a few days, he came down every day and had sex with one of you?
Speaker A
If he came down, it would also sometimes happen that he didn’t come for the next two or three days.
Speaker A
This happened at the very beginning, too. We could have run out of water, and he still wouldn’t come.
Speaker A
And we had nothing to eat. But, yes, when he came, he always came for...
Speaker A
To rape us. There was never a situation where he would come, just bring something and leave.
Speaker A
He had a very difficult life in terms of communication with women. He had difficulties with it.
Speaker A
And then all of a sudden there were these two young girls. And he was simply a king and a god to us.
Speaker A
If he wanted, he would come, if not, he wouldn’t come, if he wanted, he would bring food; if not, he wouldn’t.
Speaker A
Of course he liked it. I read the first book by Katya Martynova. She wrote that she was almost on her knees, begging for me to buy her some paint.
Speaker A
That is, of course, not true, why would she twist everything like that? She just asked: "Buy me some paint, I want to draw." I went and bought her some.
Speaker A
I brought the paint, but it wasn’t the right one. "Oh, Katya, I will buy it the next day, I’ll leave work and buy some.” I ran around all the shops, I bought the paint she needed.
Speaker A
And I kept buying sketchbooks, brushes, paint. There was no situation where she begged me. She said she wanted it and I would buy it.
Speaker A
I kind of fell in love with Katya, she was such a cute girl. She was very polite, a jack of all trades.
Speaker A
And I kind of got into a dependency. I was afraid to let them go, and now...
Speaker A
I also ended up in this bad position. I could not kill them, but was also afraid to let them go.
Speaker A
Well, I ended up a hostage myself. They suffered, and I suffered, too. What is love, in your understanding?
Speaker A
Love is an instinct. How did you realize a year later that you, as you say, fell in love?
Speaker A
Well, I somehow felt more fond of her than Lena. I don't know. She's such a polite girl very kind, polite.
Speaker A
And how did you express this love? Maybe you wanted to let her go, or did you want to do something good?
Speaker A
I bought her chocolates, that kind of thing. I took her to the house, we often went for walks.
Speaker A
And you do not notice in this a small parallel to how some parents raise their children?
Speaker A
You behave well, you get good grades – we’ll give you a chocolate bar, you're a good boy.
Speaker A
You helped clean up today – well done, go watch TV. And he didn't just get it from nowhere, this is a certain pattern of behavior – we all have our roots in childhood.
Speaker A
He took this model of what love is from somewhere and applied it. And to some extent, he’s not talking about the relationship between men and women.
Speaker A
The average man courts a woman not only with chocolates, right? If you asked them.
Speaker A
It’s like he’s talking about children here. That’s how me and the girls, whether it was a birthday – theirs or mine, or all the holidays – International Women’s Day, New Year, we celebrated all of them together.
Speaker A
They gave me a list of things to buy... - Did you celebrate there, in the bunker? - Yes, yes, there.
Speaker A
Well, I went to their's once, and after that we were separate, I stayed here, they were there.
Speaker A
But do you understand that they did all this against their will, or was the illusion that you have a family important to you, that you have holidays together?
Speaker A
Yes. But the holidays were also pleasant for them. They cooked, tried to make it nice.
Speaker A
But did you know that they were doing that, because they had no other choice?
Speaker A
There was no choice, of course, but it was pleasant for them to celebrate their birthdays, New Year’s, International Women’s Day.
Speaker A
Would you like that to have been a normal relationship? Or did you like the fact that it was a relationship in which she was afraid, a subordinate, where she lives locked up?
Speaker A
No, I liked her as a girl, I liked her. I didn't care that she didn't like me. The main thing was that I liked her.
Speaker A
And, to me... I understood that she wouldn't love me, that we wouldn’t have anything more.
Speaker A
Well, it was enough that I loved her. Did it ever happen that a woman returned your affection willingly?
Speaker A
I liked girls who are beautiful but desperate, smart beautiful. They didn't like me. But other girls, who weren’t especially beautiful, they stuck to me like glue.
Speaker A
But I didn't like them. I have this… We went for a picnic once, there were two girls, and another guy was with me.
Speaker A
I began to court one of them, she was a beautiful girl. He says: “Victor, stay in your lane.
Speaker A
This one isn't as good-looking, pursue her. Why are you pursuing this one?" And I didn't listen to him.
Speaker A
I have always chosen the very best ones. This desire, plus this really pronounced eroticism he has, which has most likely been present since childhood, it took him on a different path where ge thought, why would I need reciprocity,
Speaker A
if they don't love me anyway? But I want it. So what can I do?
Speaker A
Take her by force. "The main thing is that I like her." A very consumerist state of mind.
Speaker A
And for him, he talks about alpha males afterwards, for him, a male is with a beautiful young woman, but there is no reverse connection.
Speaker A
He hasn’t been taught that. This wasn’t passed on to him in childhood. And nature hasn’t been kind to him.
Speaker A
I’ve always treated women well, but I don’t know, for some reason they did not like me.
Speaker A
I didn't try to be with women who are defiant or desperate. But I have always been calm.
Speaker A
Maybe that's why they didn't like me? He had a very strict mother as a child and a father who wasn’t a breeze either.
Speaker A
And probably when he hit puberty, he started to lust for girls, but, as he grew up in a strict household under a strict regime, he was afraid of women.
Speaker A
Hello mom. You didn't live long enough to see me when I got out. After the trial, we were allowed to see each other for five minutes and that was it.
Speaker A
We were surrounded by six cops, so we couldn’t really talk. "Vitya, what have you done, what have you done!" And that was all.
Speaker A
Five minutes, what can you say in that time? You can’t say anything. She was sitting there, sobbing.
Speaker A
Have you ever talked to her, your mom, about sex education? Well, my mother kept saying to me: “Why don’t you get married, you’re getting older, why are you not getting married yet." I said: “I can't find someone suitable."
Speaker A
When an adult man who is able-bodied still lives with his mom, it's always a little strange, wouldn’t you agree?
Speaker A
- Well, it could be. - Didn't it seem strange to you? Well, I had to. So what?
Speaker A
I couldn't find a soulmate. Did your mother tell you about her life? Did her father beat her?
Speaker A
He often got drunk, he worked as a chauffeur. He would come home drunk and we would leave the house, so as not to get in his way.
Speaker A
We spent the night at the neighbors’. He would often make a scene, too. Can you tell us about your first sexual experience?
Speaker A
The one I married, Galya, she was the first one. You’re saying it happened after you were married?
Speaker A
Yes. After the wedding? After the wedding, of course... No, there was actually one time before the wedding.
Speaker A
Wait, the first time you had sex was at the age of 29? Yes. - At 29 years old?! - Why, did you have sex before that?
Speaker A
Well, a little bit, yes. In her book, Katya also writes about the fact that that despite your rich sexual fantasies, in that sense, you are still very much… She wrote that the rape always happened in the missionary position.
Speaker A
Always in the missionary position, I'm not a pervert. I'm going to the toilet now excuse me, please.
Speaker A
Yes, of course. Are you kidding me about the perversions? You told me that you tried to fuck them in the ass.
Speaker A
- No, no. - You told me that yourself. I tried it a couple of times – I didn't like it. And now you’re saying you never tried it.
Speaker A
Who are you trying to fuck with? I wanted to suggest to her to suck me off, but she fucking refused.
Speaker A
Fuck, the weather is so awesome, huh?! Yes, spring is coming soon. - The weather outside is wonderful. - We are discussing your sexual exploits.
Speaker A
It’s like your live in an illusion that three times a night is normal. He even took it as a compliment, he was embarrassed.
Speaker A
This is probably one of his strongest emotional reactions, because a woman, an attractive woman, praised his masculinity.
Speaker A
Because, in his understanding, masculinity are these sexual encounters. People entered sexual relationships later in life than now.
Speaker A
- This was not the case before. - What do you mean, we have a moral decline?
Speaker A
- Moral corruption? - Nowadays, yes. Now they go and sleep with a girl on the first night.
Speaker A
And before we would go steady for a year, or two, or five, only kissing and hugging.
Speaker A
- It didn’t used to be like that before. - It was better this way?
Speaker A
It was probably better. Do you feel your sexual addiction? I am not obsessed with sex. I’m normal, like everyone else.
Speaker A
Well, you even described the first night, you had sex three times with different women in a single night.
Speaker A
I had one friend, he could do it ten times in one night. Listen, I can tell you, this is not a common thing, if I’m honest.
Speaker A
Do you like this kind of sex where you just go through the motions? When a woman just lies there as if she was dead, like a log.
Speaker A
Well, a young girl. Beautiful and young, what about it? It was a pleasure. Some people buy rubber dolls.
Speaker A
There’s nothing... I don't know, it seems to me that many men can’t get it up on a rubber doll.
Speaker A
I don't know, I want to try to buy one, maybe mine will get hard.
Speaker A
A rubber doll? While there are no women… - But do you often watch pornography? - Pornography? All the time.
Speaker A
- How often? - I sometimes watch it twice a day. - Twice a day? - Yes.
Speaker A
- How old are you now? - I'm 70. 70 years old and you watch pornography twice a day?
Speaker A
And you believe that you don’t have a sexual addiction? Love knows no age. And we’re back to equating the words "love" and "sex".
Speaker A
Love knows no age. When it comes to pornography, love knows no age. He doesn’t see this as being obsessed with sex.
Speaker A
It’s just life. It’s love, it’s feelings. Where are you planning on looking for women?
Speaker A
You said: “I would like to meet someone." I think I’ll find one somewhere. Do you understand what kind of reputation you have? Nobody will want to date you.
Speaker A
There are women who are actually turned on by that. They will say: "He's a maniac".
Speaker A
And are there women who have already shown interest in you saying: "Oh, a maniac, how interesting!” Not yet. But look...
Speaker A
Your friend there is nodding. Ksenia Anatolyevna, look at what is written on the window.
Speaker A
"Ksenia", and there’s a drawing of a heart. - Here, on the screen. - What is it?
Speaker A
- It's already... - Someone is showing interest. Not you, of course, Ksenia, but some other.
Speaker A
- Someone left this for you… - Wrote it, yes. Many people love such extremes.
Speaker A
People jump from the rooftops, throw themselves under trains. - So you plan to use this... - Yes.
Speaker A
- So you plan to use this... - Yes. ...to attract women? - Can I see what this is? - Yes, I was tidying up, this is trash.
Speaker A
Listen, you have some... A massage parlor... I don't know, they’re some old magazines. Look, you have naked women lying around everywhere.
Speaker A
Why is that? Look, just a whole magazine. Do you call these numbers? No, what year is it?
Speaker A
- Is this leftover from those times? - Yes, yes. - Oh, you have Stalin here, look... - Stalin, yes.
Speaker A
You have naked women, Stalin. By the way, how do you feel about Stalin? Stalin? Well, positively.
Speaker A
Did you have doubts? Obviously. He made a mistake. First, he installed a TV for them, well, it had the first channel and probably the second.
Speaker A
But at one point they turned the knob, which, as they say, decided their fate. They found out where they were.
Speaker A
And there is this TV company "Verda", the city of Skopin. As they say, jackpot.
Speaker A
They realized that they were in Skopin. And then Mokhov made a second mistake. He gave them... He decided to...
Speaker A
- Bring the magazines? - Yes. To stimulate them and keep their minds sharp. He took a stack of magazines and brought it down for them – "read, my dear ones".
Speaker A
And, ironically, there was a magazine called “Man and the Law”. I still remember it, it was from 1982.
Speaker A
On the back side, there was an inscription, as always, the postmen wrote: "Number 18 Oktyabrskaya Street, Mokhov Viktor Vasilievich".
Speaker A
And they also blurted out to him, what they already knew that he is Mokhov Viktor Vasilievich, and that they were in Skopin.
Speaker A
So if they had pretended not to know anything, could they have been rescued earlier?
Speaker A
There was no case file, but he was talking to one of my men, one of the operatives.
Speaker A
He said: “I would like to let them go, I understand the situation... But how?
Speaker A
If I let them go now, they know where, what, how... And they'll send me to prison for a long time.
Speaker A
What do I do now? Just kill them? I even had such thoughts, how to resolve this situation.
Speaker A
It turned out that the situation couldn’t be solved in a normal way. I even had thoughts of pouring concrete on all of this and forgetting about it." Those were the thoughts I had.
Speaker A
But you need resolve and strong character to commit murder. Did you know that at one point he told the investigator that he had a thought to just pour concrete over the bunker where you were imprisoned.
Speaker A
No, this is the first time I’ve heard about it. Well... Why didn't he? Maybe he’s a coward.
Speaker A
Maybe he chickened out. For about two weeks they lived there I took them food, they would eat...
Speaker A
Then, two weeks later, I thought we had to get rid of them. So I went to Katya, took a rope and wanted to strangle her.
Speaker A
Katya fell to her knees, began to cry for me not to do it. Well I looked at her and realized that I couldn’t do it.
Speaker A
At the very beginning, when you were held captive when he decided... In his words, when he came with the rope...
Speaker A
Yes. He was going to strangle you. By the way, this is the first time I’ve heard that he really wanted to kill us.
Speaker A
Yes, that is, of course, very difficult... I remember, yes, he came down with this rope, it was thin, white linen rope.
Speaker A
And I realized... Actually, I thought, “what’s the rope for?” And I just fell on my knees and began to beg him not to kill me.
Speaker A
I don't remember what I said but he said, "Get up." He took my hand, tied it and we went upstairs to the garage.
Speaker A
And this is the first time I’ve heard what he had planned... You see, it seems that on some primal level both you and him felt it.
Speaker A
Yes. According to his version, it was a crucial moment, when he realized that he...
Speaker A
- He couldn't. - He can't do it. Why didn't life work out for you?
Speaker A
You could have found so many single women, someone… They even get together with alcoholics...
Speaker A
But you didn't even drink much, did you? - Unrequited love, I guess. - You did bad things to the girls.
Speaker A
You’ve done bad things to your children, right? God willing, they will never find out, you know?
Speaker A
You’ve done wrong by your mother, who…, I was talking to her and I had tears in my eyes.
Speaker A
She was wailing, saying: "Why did he do this..." - How? Imagine... - You can't turn back time.
Speaker A
- You can't bring it back. - We must move forward. No, you just… So that other’s don’t do the same.
Speaker A
Where did you get the idea from? As far as I can remember... In Vyatskie Polyany, a man built a sewing factory underground, did you get the idea from there?
Speaker A
No, I just read it somewhere. That’s what I mean – you spent more than three years digging out the basement.
Speaker A
Mokhov's excess of love was his downfall. At some point, he announced to his captives that he would bring a third girl to the bunker.
Speaker A
She was his lodger. Katya was part of the operation of seducing her. We drank and hung out.
Speaker A
Then Katya put a note under her scarf, saying that here they were there and I was holding them captive.
Speaker A
Indeed, after a few days this girl found the note. But she didn’t believe this note.
Speaker A
And she didn’t go to the police. None of the police officers saw the note.
Speaker A
But she mentioned it to her friend. And this started a chain reaction, one mentions it to someone, then another… And it came to Ryazan.
Speaker A
And the operatives intervened in the matter, they worked with me on gang matters. A girl told the story to a friend and it was immediately part of the operations report?
Speaker A
What reports are we talking about here? There were no reports, no official ones. Everything was based on the people involved, their willingness to help.
Speaker A
The police arrived and Mokhov was invited to the police department. They started to question him about shock absorbers, as he worked at an Automotive Aggregate Plant.
Speaker A
They made it seem like they suspected him in the theft of shock absorbers. He was genuinely upset, saying: “What are you doing! I'm a party member!
Speaker A
I, I don’t know, I am a model communist worker! What shock absorbers? What are you talking about?!" But after that they, of course, started to put pressure on him properly, saying: “Listen...” We didn't tell him that we found the hatch,
Speaker A
we said we were sending a bulldozer out and were about to demolish his garage...
Speaker A
Uncovering the truth of a crime is a game. - It’s an art, like a play. - Can you roughly recap it for me?
Speaker A
So I presume that a person understands that he will go to prison for a very long time, if he confesses.
Speaker A
Yes. So, they call and say: “Please, dispatch, we need an excavator, we need a bulldozer.
Speaker A
Yes, we're going to demolish a garage now, we are going to dig." But the way this was said, was so that he would think that it’s about to happen.
Speaker A
That they will dig? Well, dig then. Dig. But he knows that if they start digging, then the girls would die.
Speaker A
And this would be even worse for him. So this... Oh, so he got scared that they would die, and then...
Speaker A
Yes. Then this would be even worse for him. Do you understand? So the methodology used in the interrogation by the investigators is to convince the criminal that he needs to confess, because if he doesn't confess, it would be worse.
Speaker A
And where is the girl who was his lodger? Why did she bring the note so late? Do you know anything about that?
Speaker A
- We don’t know anything yet. - How did you find out then? Well, this note, it was given to us.
Speaker A
- Did she bring it to you? - We don’t know who brought it in.
Speaker A
We don’t know anything yet. Don't rush, easy... - Hold her, hold... - Quiet! Careful, careful... Here!
Speaker A
Lena Samokhina doesn’t communicate with journalists at all. She wants to erase those years from her life.
Speaker A
But Katya Martynova willingly gives interviews. She even wrote a memoir about the events that transpired.
Speaker A
- She blames you for... - Yes, I think she blames me, yes. ...deciding to share this publicly?
Speaker A
Have you tried to explain why you are doing this? That you want to help other women who are in a similar situation, and that do you want people to know about these stories know that the victim is not to blame?
Speaker A
Yes. And, generally, if you’re silent about it, it means you’ve accepted it. I didn’t manage to talk to her about it.
Speaker A
I tried to find her a year and a half ago. I asked for her phone number from mutual acquaintances.
Speaker A
But they didn't give it to me, they said that she does not want to talk to me.
Speaker A
You speak as if, you know, it’s really interesting, as if you got used to being attacked for this.
Speaker A
I mean, you seem to think it’s necessary to justify yourself. There were so many requests for interviews, and probably around 70% of them did put pressure on me, saying things like “how did you even live there?” How did you manage to survive? Or maybe you are not telling us the whole truth?
Speaker A
And, we can't imagine ourselves in your situation, we would have simply died there. And yes, I had to constantly answer the question “how did you do it?” It’s not like you can just close your eyes and die, right?
Speaker A
You either need to do something with yourself, or, well, you just need to keep on living, even in those conditions.
Speaker A
And so many people don’t understand and probably can't believe it, that’s also possible. I wrote a book.
Speaker A
I wrote a draft by hand first. I wrote for myself, so that I could finally separate myself from this story.
Speaker A
It was hard for me. I had a lot of memories and I was having nightmares.
Speaker A
I knew that he would be released from prison soon. All my life was somehow revolving around this whole thing.
Speaker A
I was happy, and I am happy now. But I was not at peace. Now I'm more or less at peace, because I have already achieved some of my goals.
Speaker A
But now you have spoken out. Is this your mission now? Yes, and I'm working on a foundation right now, where...
Speaker A
We will support and protect women who have survived violence. I do not agree that he is a maniac.
Speaker A
- He's not a maniac? - In my opinion, no. But he's just an idiot.
Speaker A
Simply put, men and women have a sex life, right? They even get officially married.
Speaker A
But he operates differently. He found himself some women, and the young ones are better than the old ones, right?
Speaker A
And that's the approach he took... And he doesn't think about them, he only thinks of himself.
Speaker A
He thought, "what do I have here?" Well, people normally live in houses, and here I have put together this… My mom is at our house, so where else can I bring them? And I… Well, he could, for example, build a small house with some windows.
Speaker A
And he did make a small house, just without windows. He thought, "I built myself this place", and he went there to wind down.
Speaker A
You were drawing while you were in the bunker. I felt the need to draw some, I guess, houses, well, the things that were up there above ground.
Speaker A
People. Then I painted a lot of women, naked women. This protected me mentally. You could say that I drew for him, for Mokhov.
Speaker A
I would imagine that it was not me lying in that green room, that it was one of my...
Speaker A
You sort of communicated with him through these drawings, that it wasn’t not you, but this girl here?
Speaker A
Yes yes. There were also men in the drawings who sometimes looked similar to Mokhov, they would always be sitting down, with dark hair.
Speaker A
And the girl is a blonde, it’s someone else. It served as some sort of protection for me.
Speaker A
I don’t know, if I hadn’t come up with this coping mechanism, then it might have been much harder to go through this experience.
Speaker A
- Did you stop painting when you got out? - Yes, I stopped. - You don't paint anymore? - No, just sometimes, for my children.
Speaker A
- You wanted to get these drawings back. - Yes. We brought the man who kept them safe specially for that.
Speaker A
There were seven drawings. Thanks for keeping them. Do you miss Katya? Well, how could I miss her?
Speaker A
My feelings for her did not change. To me, she is… - So you still love her? - Yes.
Speaker A
And would you like to be with her? Well, we can’t be together, but if we could meet, I could talk to her, of course.
Speaker A
Would you like that to happen? Well, it all depends on her. But you did want to talk to her, right?
Speaker A
No, I wanted to ask her forgiveness. Let me make a video of you on my phone. What would you say to her?
Speaker A
I would like to ask Katya for forgiveness. When I was released my one and only wish was to ask my victims for forgiveness.
Speaker A
So here it goes, Katya, please forgive me for the torment and suffering, which you had to go through because of me.
Speaker A
I have always respected you and Lena. It's like you practiced it. He made a video for you.
Speaker A
No. - You don't want to watch it? - No. Do you know that he still wants to meet with you?
Speaker A
Yes. - Did you know that? - I know, but I don’t understand why. He apologized to you in the video.
Speaker A
Do you believe that he is sorry? Of course not. - Do you have any nightmares? - No, never.
Speaker A
- No nightmares? - No. - Do you believe in God? - No. - I have my own god. - Which one?
Speaker A
I am an atheist. So you don't that there is anything after death? - Yes, there is nothing after death. - There’s no hell?
Speaker A
No hell? And there is no heaven either.
Topics:Viktor MokhovSkopinsky ManiacRussian serial killersprison lifesex offenderscriminal profilingFSBpsychological interviewprison hierarchyKsenia Sobchak
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