Kentucky Outlook – Jerry Greenfield (Ben & Jerry’s Ice … — Transcript

[Music] More and more business owners and manufacturers across the globe are taking a more responsible approach to how they do business. They're committing to being more socially responsible, more environmentally sustainable. All in all, raising the entrepreneurial consciousness and cutting their carbon footprint in the process. Now, if you talk about these things, often lauded as being ahead of the curve in these matters are the founders of Ben and Jerry's Ice Cream. Coming up on Outlook, we're going to be talking with the Jerry of Ben and Jerry's, Jerry Greenfield. In addition, we're going to find out where do they come up with those ice cream names next on Outlook.

[Music] The program is Outlook. I'm Barbara Deeb and we're delighted to have with us in the studio Jerry, the Jerry of Ben and Jerry's, Jerry Greenfield and uh one of the co-founders of Ben and Jerry's ice cream. Currently president of the Trustees for Ben and Jerry Foundation. Lots of lots of things going on, but welcome. Thanks for being here. It's nice to be here, Barb. Thank you. And you're here as part of WKU's cultural enhancement series, featured speaker.

You'll be speaking tonight as we tape this program. But let's get started. I mean, there's so much I want to talk to you about and and so I've had so many people ask me to ask you things, which doesn't normally happen with a guest, but how you got started in the ice cream biz. You're the Jerry of Ben and Jerry's. You and Ben are still friends, have been friends since you were teenagers, age 13. We met in seventh grade in junior high school. We met in gym class. Uh we were the two slowest, fattest kids in the class and we met running around the track together and the rest as they say. So you're we we were in the back of the pack as you might have imagined. But so you you start this friendship it goes on into and you were going to go to med school I read. Well, I I applied to medical schools, but uh I did not get accepted to medical schools. And Ben has a a more checkered uh educational history than I do. He dropped out of several colleges. And uh you know, we were we were kind of failing at everything we were trying to do. And so we decided to see if we could open up a little homemade ice cream shop. But where does one you know, you're sitting around one day maybe eating some ice cream going, "Hey, this stuff's good. we can do this. Was it that kind of thing? Well, we we always like to eat quite a bit. Uh and so when we thought about starting some kind of venture, we thought about different foods. We thought about bagels. We thought about homemade ice cream. Uh we picked ice cream. Didn't know anything about it. We learned how to make ice cream from a correspondence course from Penn State University. And uh we just kind of figured we were ready to make ice cream. This is part of the legacy and lore of the Ben and Jerry's ice cream franchise. The fact that indeed you paid $5. And from the way I read it, you two were so broke, you had to each pitch in the 250 for the $5 to take a correspondence course in how to make ice cream, but we got A's on all the open book tests. There you go. So, so you take this course and you go, okay, we can do this. And then a little more to it because you had to get some backers, at least some money to get started in the beginning. And so what you had friends, relatives? Yeah. Ben and I had each saved $4,000. So we had $8,000 together. We tried to get a loan from a bank uh that was going to be guaranteed by the Small Business Administration and that fell through. So we got another $4,000 to go with our $8,000. So in 1978, we opened up this ice cream parlor in an abandoned gas station and we were making ice cream with a 5-gallon rock salt and ice ice cream freezer. So there you go. You remember day as you're grinning as you're thinking back to this, huh? So you remember day one you opened those doors and who knew? I remember day one very clearly because uh we weren't really supposed to be open on the day we opened, but Ben decided to put an ad in the local newspaper and he put the wrong date on. So uh it was he was a week off. It was a great way to start. Yeah, it should have been telling. So you opened the doors, you're making ice cream. How many flavors did you have? I think we had six. Uh, you know, Ben and Jerry's is known for all these flavors now, but we started with vanilla, chocolate, strawberry, coffee, just real basic flavors. And did you, you know, was there a secret to that initial recipe? Was there something that you had from the get-go that the other guys didn't? It It was very good quality ice cream. It was uh a lot of cream, so it was very creamy. It didn't have much air, so it was very rich. Uh so it it was mostly high quality but it was not uh you know the flavor combinations that you think of for Ben and Jerry's now. So did you after day one you shut the doors you go people came we sold ice cream and then was there a point at which you said we need to tweak maybe we need to look at different flavors changing the formula. There was actually a point uh not so much about the ice cream, but we we closed our doors after a few weeks uh to see if we could figure out how to pay our bills because neither Ben nor I has any financial training. And uh we were not really that interested in financial things. So uh after a while, we just had to shut the door and uh put a little sign up on the front of the door. Sorry, we're closed. We're trying to figure out if we can stay in business, but we will be back. Yes. But we will be back. Was there that was that that instinct that said, you know, this is something that we can do for our livelihood? Well, we we were an artistic success, I would say, but we had no idea about the money part of it. Uh but we we were not really doing it to start a business or start a career, anything like that. For us, it was it was a venture that we talked about doing maybe for a couple of years, then maybe becoming cross-country truck drivers together. We were just doing it as a lark.

Artistic success. That seems to be a bit of an understatement. We're going to talk about more about that. and this bohemian sort of label that follows Ben and Jerry's ice cream. But first of all, what's your favorite flavor? Well, we set out on the campus of Western Kentucky University and asked that very question. Here's what they had to say.

My favorite Ben & Jerry's ice cream would have to be Steven Colbear's American Dream. Uh my favorite Ben & Jerry's ice cream is uh the Dublin Mudslide. Uh because I actually had a life goal to eat that ice cream. I went to Ben and Jerry's once and I completely missed it and I could not find it for like three years. So, I had to go and find it and then I finally found it and goal accomplished. Cookies and cream because Oreos are freaking awesome. Chocolate because I was born loving it. [Music] [Music] [Music] How to run a values-led business and make money too. That's the book. It's Ben and Jerry's. And we're talking with Jerry Greenfield of Ben and Jerry's fame. They always have to put that in that context, don't they? You have to be the Jerry of Ben and Jerry's. He's just Jerry Greenfield. I'm the Jerry. Come on. and he's joining us today to share that story. You know, we talked about getting started and and it was it was, you know, you didn't have these grand ambitions that, you know, one day I'm going to sell this company for hundreds of millions of dollars. You just were going to let this be something along the journey. You know, this will be step one and maybe we'll go, you know, ride motorcycles for the rest of our lives.

Yeah. But it turned out, you saw that, you know what, this is catching on. At what point did you find this niche market? This market that said, you know, if we get clever with some of the names, you know, we can make some money here.

Well, uh, it's a little hard to say. It it, uh, it started happening when we started packaging our ic

grade in junior high school. We met in gym class. Uh we were the two slowest, fattest kids in the class and we met running around the track together and the rest as they say. So you're we we were in the back of the pack as you

might have imagined. But so you you start this friendship it goes on into and you were going to go to med school I read. Well, I I applied to medical schools, but uh I did not get accepted to medical schools. And Ben has a a more

checkered uh educational history than I do. He dropped out of several colleges. And uh you know, we were we were kind of failing at everything we were trying to do. And so we decided to see if we could

open up a little homemade ice cream shop. But where does one you know, you're sitting around one day maybe eating some ice cream going, "Hey, this stuff's good. we can do this. Was it that kind of thing? Well, we we always

like to eat quite a bit. Uh and so when we thought about starting some kind of venture, we thought about different foods. We thought about bagels. We thought about homemade ice cream. Uh we picked ice cream. Didn't know anything

about it. We learned how to make ice cream from a correspondence course from Penn State University. And uh we just kind of figured we were ready to make ice cream. This is part of the legacy and lore of the Ben and Jerry's ice

cream franchise. The fact that indeed you paid $5. And from the way I read it, you two were so broke, you had to each pitch in the 250 for the $5 to take a correspondence course in how to make ice

cream, but we got A's on all the open book tests. There you go. So, so you take this course and you go, okay, we can do this. And then a little more to it because you had to get some backers,

at least some money to get started in the beginning. And so what you had friends, relatives? Yeah. Ben and I had each saved $4,000. So we had $8,000 together. We tried to get a loan from a bank uh that was going to be guaranteed

by the Small Business Administration and that fell through. So we got another $4,000 to go with our $8,000. So in 1978, we opened up this ice cream parlor in an abandoned gas station and we were making ice cream with a 5gallon rock

salt and ice ice cream freezer. So there you go. You remember day as you're grinning as you're thinking back to this, huh? So you remember day one you opened those doors and who knew? I remember day one very clearly because uh

we weren't really supposed to be open on the day we opened, but Ben decided to put an ad in the local newspaper and he put the wrong date on. So uh it was he was a week off. It was a great way to

start. Yeah, it should have been telling. So you opened the doors, you're making ice cream. How many flavors did you have? I think we had six. Uh, you know, Ben and Jerry's is known for all these flavors now, but we started with vanilla,

chocolate, strawberry, coffee, just real basic flavors. And did you, you know, was there a secret to that initial recipe? Was there something that you had from the get-go that the other guys didn't? It It was very good quality ice

cream. It was uh a lot of cream, so it was very creamy. It didn't have much air, so it was very rich. Uh so it it was mostly high quality but it was not uh you know the flavor combinations that

you think of for Ben and Jerry's now. So did you after day one you shut the doors you go people came we sold ice cream and then was there a point at which you said we need to tweak maybe we need to look

at different flavors changing the formula. There was actually a point uh not so much about the ice cream, but we we closed our doors after a few weeks uh to see if we could figure out how to pay

our bills because neither Ben nor I has any financial training. And uh we were not really that interested in financial things. So uh after a while, we just had to shut the door and uh put a little sign up on the front of the door. Sorry,

we're closed. We're trying to figure out if we can stay in business, but we will be back. Yes. But we will be back. Was there that was that that instinct that said, you know, this is something that we can do for our livelihood?

Well, we we were an artistic success, I would say, but we had no idea about the money part of it. Uh but we we were not really doing it to start a business or start a career, anything like that. For us, it was it

was a venture that we talked about doing maybe for a couple of years, then maybe becoming cross-country truck drivers together. We were just doing it as a lark.

Artistic success. That seems to be a bit of an understatement. We're going to talk about more about that. and this bohemian sort of label that follows Ben and Jerry's ice cream. But first of all, what's your favorite flavor? Well, we

set out on the campus of Western Kentucky University and asked that very question. Here's what they had to say.

My favorite Ben & Jerry's ice cream would have to be Steven Colbear's American dream. Uh my favorite Ben & Jerry's ice cream is uh the Dublin Mudslide. Uh because I actually had a life goal to eat that ice cream. I went

to Ben and Jerry's once and I completely missed it and I could not find it for like three years. So, I had to go and find it and then I finally found it and goal accomplished. Cookies and cream

because Oreos are freaking awesome. Chocolate because I was born loving it. [Music] [Music] [Music] How to run a valuesled business and make money too. That's the book. It's Ben and Jerry's. And we're talking with Jerry Greenfield of Ben and Jerry's fame. They

always have to put that in that context, don't they? You have to be the Jerry of Ben and Jerry's. He's just Jerry Greenfield. I'm the Jerry. Come on. and he's joining us today to share that story. You know, we talked about getting

started and and it was it was, you know, you didn't have these grand ambitions that, you know, one day I'm going to sell this company for hundreds of millions of dollars. You just were going to let this be something along the

journey. You know, this will be step one and maybe we'll go, you know, ride motorcycles for the rest of our lives.

Yeah. But it turned out, you saw that, you know what, this is catching on. At what point did you find this niche market? This market that said, you know, if we get clever with some of the names, you know, we can make some money here.

Well, uh, it's a little hard to say. It it, uh, it started happening when we started packaging our ice cream. At at first, we were just selling ice cream out of our little shop. And because Vermont has such a long winter, we were barely

staying in business. And so we decided to package ice cream and try to sell it in some of the mom and pop grocery stores. And I think that's really what allowed Ben & Jerry's to get distributed in a wider

area. Uh so it as as we went into new markets around the northeast uh that kind of catapulted Ben and Jerry's I read a funny story. Tell me if this is correct about, you know, you were making money during the summer,

then suddenly the long winter came and you thought, how are we going to sell ice cream in the winter? So, you did some kind of clever way of making the price go down as the temperature. We had what I think was the best promotion in

the history of Ben & Jerry's, which was called Popsided Biz, Penny Off Celsius degree below zero winter extravaganza.

Say that five times real fast. Whoa. As the the colder it got, the more money we took off the price of an ice cream cone. But not even that was enough to get people in the door. Barb, but it was very clever. It was clever.

And and one would say that the Ben & Jerry's, the whole brand is very clever.

It's very artistic. It's very creative. It conjures up certain images. And so all of that was intentional. Yes. Well, we we've tried to be authentic. Uh when we started out, we didn't have enough money to advertise or try to create some

kind of story about Ben and Jerry's. So, we decided to tell the truth and be ourselves. It was a radical departure.

Wow. And it worked. Yeah. Uh, you know, originally I think a lot of the story was about Ben and me and it was somewhat personality driven because we are such charming guys. But, uh, we we realized that, uh, what was really important was

the values upon which the company was based. that it's not really about two guys, but it's what the the company is about. About about using the power of business to try to help address social and environmental problems, which uh you

know, it turns out people are interested in. Well, it's a lot about timing as well. Have you found that that's always been the case or is it you know that you know one decade is more willing to listen to those kinds of things more

willing to participate and support those kinds of things? I I don't think it's about timing. I think uh my my experience has been that customers, consumers, what whatever you want to call folks in in our country are are

concerned about their neighbors and about making the world a better place. They typically see business and corporations as not a way to help that come about. Uh I think corporations, big business doesn't really have a good reputation and most

people see big business as an entity that's looking out for itself as opposed to looking out for the common good. You know, we talk about Ben and Jerry's being lauded for its community approach, but in this day and time as we stand in

2012, how do you define community? What does that mean, a community approach? Well, I I for a company like Ben and Jerry's, it's the communities in which we operate. So, it would be in Vermont where we uh get our milk and cream for

the ice cream that we make. Uh it's communities where we have scoop shops. Uh Ben & Jerry's actually now operates internationally. So I think our community is is getting larger. Well, how does it how does it fare on the

international stage? Ben & Jerry's is popular in some places. Uh it's very popular in Western Europe.

Uh it's not so popular in other places. is Ben & Jerry's is is just about to re-enter Japan. Ben and Jerry's entered Japan once really unsuccessfully. And so now you're going back for more, huh? I feel like the timing might be right.

Right. Different uh you know, it's not it's not exactly my choice. You know, most people may not know. Uh Ben and I don't really run the company anymore.

The company got sold about 10 years ago. So Ben and I uh continue to work at Ben and Jerry's but not in management or operations. Let's talk a little bit about that. That was in the just before the millennium in the 2000. You sold it

to Unilver and people may not be aware of what that company is. It's huge and it has different concerns. One of which now is Ben and Jerry's. But they still let you do something. There was something nice about that purchase

because they wanted you to keep that authenticity that you referenced earlier. they didn't want that to go away with the purchase. How did you ensure that that would happen? We have a little bit of an unusual uh agreement. Uh a couple of things. One

is that the Ben & Jerry's Foundation gets to remain in place. Another is that there's an independent board of directors of Ben & Jerry's that still oversees the social mission of the company. uh and and also what's referred

to as the essential integrity of the brand. So the CEO of Ben & Jerry's reports to to two different groups. He reports to the board of Ben & Jerry's for the social mission and he reports to Unilver uh for the operations

and the financial mission. and you still have input in the sense that um you like to give back to this community that we talked about a little bit ago which is now huge. So how do you decide who and

how to give back to? Well, the company actually has its own social mission department. Ben and I, you know, you say we have I don't know what did you say influence or uh we don't have a whole lot of influence. Uh we we're kind of

pretty faces for Ben and Jerry's now. And uh it it's a little bit interesting because things that Ben and I do individually, people in the public just naturally associate with the company and they feel like the company is supporting

whatever Ben and I do. Uh whether it's true or not. And by the same token, when Ben and Jerry's, the company does things, people assume that Ben and I are supporting it, which is not always the case. So, it's it's a little bit of a

dance we do. We want to talk more about that dance and the Occupy Wall Street movement and how a lot of those people uh who are participating in some areas got free ice cream thanks to Ben and Jerry's. We're going to talk about that.

In addition, we want to remind you about the social mission of WKY PBS. Don't forget about Facebook and Twitter. We're going to take a short break, but we'll be back with more of Outlook and Jerry Greenfield of Ben and Jerry's. Stay with

[Music] [Music] us. Outlook continues. We're continuing our discussion with Jerry Greenfield, the Jerry of Ben and Jerry's. You know, I gotta do this before I forget because we're running out of time. We showed you a little bit earlier. We went on campus

and asked some people what their favorite Ben & Jerry's ice cream flavor is. We heard a lot about Cherry Garcia and Chunky Monkey. We've got uh the Hubby, the Chubby Hubby. And so, first of all, first of all, how do you

come up with these names? Who how did that all get started? Well, some are simply descriptive. Chocolate chip cookie dough, chocolate fudge brownie.

Some uh some of the ones you named are suggestions from customers. Cherry Garcia, Chunky Monkey, Chubby Hubby, all people who got in touch with the company said, "We've got a great idea for a flavor." But some can cause controversy

as well. In particular, the Hubby Hubby and the Shreddy Balls. Do you want to talk about those? Sure. Uh Hubby Hubby was a it it was a transition of Chubby Hubby. uh the company changed the name to celebrate the passage of a law in

Vermont uh about same-sex marriage and the company wanted to celebrate marriage equality that uh to many people marriage is about love and commitment and it's an issue of civil and human rights. Uh it was, you know, pretty controversial as

you may imagine. Uh because many people have very deep feelings and it's it's a religious issue for people and uh you know, Ben and Jerry's I think to its credit feels like it needs to speak up for issues that it believes in and

understands that not everybody will agree. uh you know, sweaty balls was was a little bit different that that was somewhat controversial, but it was just humorous. It was uh named after a sketch on Saturday Night Live with Alec

Baldwin. Uh uh I didn't I I wasn't really a big fan of the name. Not that I found it offensive. Uh it's just not really my sense of humor. Well, is there do you put a certain time limit or did

you you know on an ice cream name? You know, Cherry Garcia obviously very popular. Going to stay. We'll stick with that. You you get It's number one. It's Is it number one? Still number one.

Still number one. Who knew? But um so do they have a a shelf life, if you will?

You know, flavors tend to stick around if they sell. Okay. It doesn't matter if I like it or if you like it, Barb. It's kind of if it sells, it stays. And if it doesn't sell, it goes bye-bye. It goes

to the flavor graveyard. Oh, no. There's a flavor graveyard. But now the answer you've been waiting to hear, share with us. What's your favorite ice cream?

American dream. Really? It's the Steven Colbear flavor. Vanilla ice cream with a caramel swirl and fudgecoated pieces of waffle cones. Great combination. Wow. As he was saying that, were you tasting it?

Good stuff. And so, you know, you you've done all these things. You've got you've you're in a place, you know, we started talking before this, you and Ben Cohen, your partner and Ben and Jerry's, you're just the best of friends. You you

continue to be and if you don't mind me saying kind of like an old married couple. You read each other's minds. You spent that much time together. What a beautiful gift you have been given in this life to not only have such great

success, but to do it with someone who's such a wonderful dear friend. Yeah, I I think we both feel very very lucky, very blessed. Uh and you know it one of the things that people often ask is about

the success of Ben and Jerry's and what led to the success and besides all the reasons about things we did right or whatever there's there's definitely an element of good fortune and good luck uh we we just were very lucky.

Social responsibility this giving back that's so important. Do you see, as I said at the beginning of the show, I think more manufacturers, more companies are realizing that they need they need to do that not only to keep themselves

in business, but just there's a need out there to fill. Yeah. And I I think a lot of it is driven by customers uh people who want businesses to think about more than just maximizing their profits. uh businesses. I mean, in in many business

schools, students are still taught that the only legitimate purpose of business is to maximize profit, which when you think about it, uh you know, you have this incredibly powerful force in the country and what they're thinking about is making as much money as they can

without really thinking about the impacts on the larger society. And you know when when you talk about sustainability that is not really something that's sustainable.

the Occupy Wall Street movement, which we referenced a little bit earlier. The fact that uh you and your partner Ben supported those that were out there and that movement, which is kind of it's kind of ironic because the Occupy

movement was fighting corporate greed and corporate influences and yet you, you know, you sold your company at the beginning of the millennium for, you know, 225 million, but lots of millions, right? Um, you know, so so you balance

that. how uh well I don't I don't think it matters how much money you have if you want to fight for uh better economic equality and uh not having so much corporate power in our country. Uh I think anybody can

believe that we should have a more equal society. Uh and to me what Occupy is really about is reclaiming our democracy, about not having wealthy and corporate interests, having so much control on our elections and on legislation that we need to have our

democracy go back to the people. So having a voice Yeah. having a voice and and your status allows you to have a voice to help.

Uh yeah, as as ironic as that is that somebody who happens to be uh a a successful ice cream maker and business person is considered to be a respectable member of our society more so than than somebody else. So these days, as you

say, you know, you're you're affiliated, but you're no longer an owner of Ben and Jerry's ice cream. So now you get to go around the country and just do fun things like these shows and what else?

Uh I do some speaking at colleges. Uh as you mentioned earlier, I'm involved with the Ben & Jerry's Foundation. And I think the influence Ben and I do have on the company is we we're able to nudge it

uh a little further over in terms of working on social and environmental issues because when the company does those things, Ben and I are eager to help out and be involved. And I think in general the company likes to have us uh

involved. So, uh, they they think it's a good thing if they do activities that engage us and engage the public. And yet, you're considered a nonpartisan company. Oh, the company is nonpartisan.

It doesn't get involved in partisan politics. It's never supported any candidate over any other candidate. Uh, I think it gets involved in issues. And so, what's ahead? What next? What's the I still need to Oh, yeah. do that. Uh, I

I don't really feel like I need to do anything. I'm I'm I'm slowing down a little, Barb. I'm uh, you know, I'm in my 60s now and uh, I've got a little less in front of me than I've got behind

me. I'm I'm turning it over to the next generation. And you hope that Ben & Jerry's will live on? You have a son?

Yeah. Okay. And his age? He's 23. Okay. Does he have any interest in this?

What's What's he in? Zero. Really? He's not even a big ice cream eater. Oh wow.

He's a great kid though. I love him. Of course he's your son. And so but what does he have a a career ambition? Does he want to do something? No, not that I know of. That's interesting. And so um

as far as you're concerned, as long as people continue to keep their antennas up, those people being business people that the world can be a better place. I think it's essential that that business start to do more. Uh business is just

such a powerful force in our country. Uh it controls so many resources that that the future of our country really depends on business. Taking a more sustainable look at how it operates and eating more ice cream if if you're so inclined.

We've been talking with Jerry Greenfield who is the Jerry of Ben and Jerry's. That's going to wrap it up for this week's edition of Outlook. I'm Barbara Dee. I'd like to thank Mina Derner, Dr.

David Lee, and the Cultural Enhancement Series at WKU for uh allowing us this opportunity to chat with Jerry Greenfield. Until next time, I want to thank them, too. Get that. Get that. Get that. Until next time, thanks for

joining us. Go ahead. Thank him. Thank you. [Music] [Music]