Gangaji Interview — Transcript

[Music] I would say it's really important for everyone to know that I'm a regular person with regular issues that people have, the human beings have, and I have an individual history that had particular issues, but it's just a version of what everybody has.

what everybody has and I was looking for happiness all my life I guess I I think that that is an essential human ingredient and for some people happiness means just enough food so that you don't starve some people it means safety so

I was looking for happiness all my life, I guess. I think that that is an essential human ingredient, and for some people happiness means just enough food so that you don't starve. Some people it means safety so that you aren't killed or raped or harmed.

but I had this this search this uh Pursuit of Happiness that started very early and that turned into a preoccupation so that by the time I met my teacher Papa G hwl punja in India and it was like the pursuit of

But for me, in my particular situation, being born in a free country and being relatively at peace, I was just personally unhappy. So I didn't have big problems, but I had this search, this pursuit of happiness that started very early and that turned into a preoccupation.

that's what had happened to me and Papa G told me to stop my Pursuits he told me to be still he recognized what he saw in in many people and I guess what he knew with his own experience that the the pursuing of

So that by the time I met my teacher Papa G, H.W.L. Poonja, in India, it was like the pursuit of happiness. It's an amazing kind of dilemma because it's actually a gift to be able to pursue happiness, but then as we pursue happiness, we often become more aware of what's blocking happiness than the happiness that's already present.

controller we all have it as animals and it's it's a wonderful uh emotion it serves us in our survival but it very easily becomes co-opted by Society or familial or cultural or religious ideas of what a person or a

And that's what had happened to me. Papa G told me to stop my pursuits. He told me to be still. He recognized what he saw in many people, and I guess what he knew with his own experience, that the pursuing of happiness had become so mental, had become such a problem-oriented endeavor that I was overlooking the space of being, the truth of myself.

of being an animal being a human animal then we can recognize that we are conscious animals and we can actually have the choice to open to the fear rather than to be directed by the fear or to repress the fear because there are

Well, fear is, as far as I can see, the root human controller. We all have it as animals, and it's a wonderful emotion. It serves us in our survival, but it very easily becomes co-opted by society or familial or cultural or religious ideas of what a person or a group or a family or a nation should do.

not do that but there's another choice and that's to not follow the fear to not obey the fear and also to not suppress the fear to actually open to fear this root human emotion survival emotion to open to it as energy as simply

So it is a universal with animals, maybe with plants too, and as a universal, there's nothing wrong with fear. And if we're willing for fear to be recognized as simply part of this experience of being an animal, being a human animal, then we can recognize that we are conscious animals, and we can actually have the choice to open to the fear rather than to be directed by the fear or to repress the fear.

you know because it can be huge it can be the terror of non-existence that's fundamentally what it is the tear of death so maybe not everyone is ready to open to it there is a timing in one's life where you

Because there are many people who recognize that fear has directed them, and they recognize the prison of that, and they hate that, and so they learn to suppress that and move against the fear. And that's very valuable. I wouldn't counsel anyone to not do that, but there's another choice, and that's to not follow the fear, to not obey the fear, and also to not suppress the fear, to actually open to fear, this root human emotion, survival emotion, to open to it as energy, as simply vibration.

didn't try something if I wasn't uh succeeding if I wasn't accumulating if I wasn't moving up on the spiritual ladder I felt I would just fall back into this mess that I had escaped and so that was the way I was

And in order to open to it as simply vibration, we have to stop telling whatever narrative we are currently telling about what we're experiencing. I don't want to trivialize fear in any way and say just open to it, you know, because it can be huge. It can be the terror of non-existence. That's fundamentally what it is, the terror of death.

and for many people what's here maybe some anger maybe some sadness but at the root at the bottom is fear and when we're willing to open to that it's it's actually a fear of non-existence it's a fear of

So maybe not everyone is ready to open to it. There is a timing in one's life where you recognize that you've tried everything, you know, to try. And like when I met my teacher, he told me to stop trying anything, and when I stopped trying anything, I was aware of a very deep fear, horror of who I might be if I didn't try something, if I wasn't succeeding, if I wasn't accumulating, if I wasn't moving up on the spiritual ladder.

beautifully but for a moment to not be tyrannized by survival is a moment to recognize yourself as free Consciousness and then fear may appear or not but you have recognized yourself is that that is before survival and after survival enduring the survival of

I felt I would just fall back into this mess that I had escaped, and so that was the way I was holding it in the narration of who this person is. And the challenge for me, and the challenge that I offer other people, is to stop that narrative, to stop the story for a moment and open to what's here.

fear and finally to meet yourself as you are before any name of yourself or any distinction distinction of yourself as male or female enlightened or unenlightened and and then here here you are here we are [Music] on I was brought up a

And for many people, what's here may be some anger, maybe some sadness, but at the root, at the bottom, is fear. And when we're willing to open to that, it's actually a fear of non-existence. It's a fear of death.

Christian and conditioned as a there was a heaven and a hell and there was I was most likely going to hell but if I worked hard I could maybe get into heaven and then as I as I Grew Older and

And when we are willing in this moment to die, not wanting to die, not hoping to die, but willing, then there is no fear because that's what it is in our bodies, to keep us from dying, luckily, beautifully.

people it's very uncomfortable to be without a Doctrine so very subtly I formulated new doctrines and sometimes at some periods they were Buddhist at certain periods they were new age and metaphysical and co-creative and and when I met Papa

But for a moment, to not be tyrannized by survival is a moment to recognize yourself as free consciousness. And then fear may appear or not, but you have recognized yourself. That is before survival and after survival, enduring the survival of the particular creature.

appreciate most what is free of any belief what all beliefs are perhaps pointing to at the core all doctrines all religions but that no Doctrine no religion no belief can capture in totality and that can be experienced [Music]

So that I invite people and support people and challenge people to meet whatever is being avoided. We sometimes, the emotions are nested, but finally we get to fear, and in that then to meet what is under fear, and finally to meet yourself as you are before any name of yourself or any distinction of yourself as male or female, enlightened or unenlightened.

and so therefore we have not succeeded so it becomes corrupted and becomes put into our mindset or our narrative just like getting the best job or the best mate or more power and I would say usually Enlightenment the way it's

And then here, here you are, here we are. [Music] I was brought up a Christian, and at an early age I had a beautiful experience of the love of Christ, and I still can feel that in my being. I was, I think, six years old, and it was huge.

just Out Of Reach power this power of Perfection it can almost be fascistic because everything else that is is not of this power does not give this power is is hated and shunned and has to be gotten rid

And you know, I was conditioned as a Christian and conditioned as a there was a heaven and a hell, and there was I was most likely going to hell, but if I worked hard, I could maybe get into heaven.

Enlightenment you know the The Light Within or discovering the light or bringing The Light Within so there are many different uh gradations of that and in that sense I think that there are levels of Enlightenment when you when

And then as I grew older and I actually went to college and studied different religions, I recognized that there was a continuum or thread that was present in all religions, and that was that there is something bigger than what we [Music] know.

speaking of Enlightenment is that which points to the totality the Perfection that includes all imperfections the Fulfillment that has room for sadness and grief and fear anger the connection that makes no distinction between you and me and makes

I found that it's, as true for most people, it's very uncomfortable to be without a doctrine, so very subtly I formulated new doctrines, and sometimes at some periods they were Buddhist, at certain periods they were new age and metaphysical and co-creative.

and that is the light of Consciousness and it is always shining even in the dark moments so when I was with Papa G and he told me to stop trying to to be something I just relaxed and that that's really what I'm

And when I met Papa G, it was so radical for me because I heard him saying stop generating anything, stop doing anything, and for me that meant a moment with no belief.

have to have particular Karma or particular astrological alignment to discover the truth of who you are I would just say trust yourself and when I say trust yourself I'm not speaking of trusting your thoughts they aren't trustworthy or your

I appreciate belief systems, and I have been in belief systems, but I appreciate most what is free of any belief, what all beliefs are perhaps pointing to at the core, all doctrines, all religions, but that no doctrine, no religion, no belief can capture in totality and that can be experienced. [Music]

the willingness to trust that it discovers itself I am interested in in this skillfully as possible meeting with people but the real meeting is something that's beyond the person or the people in me it's a Synergy it's a mystery not everyone is

We have some ideal of enlightenment as a perfection of emotions and mind and body. Different groups have different ideals, but it becomes part of what keeps us separate until we have attained some perfected ideal, we are not enlightened.

those who are drawn to me I I give myself to in support of their discovery of the truth of who they are and in that I benefit of course even more because I'm discovering another aspect of myself free

And so therefore we have not succeeded, so it becomes corrupted and becomes put into our mindset or our narrative just like getting the best job or the best mate or more power.