Ben & Jerry’s: We Don’t Need Male Allies. We Need Male … — Transcript

Discussion on why men should be male activists, not just allies, to support women in the workplace and beyond.

Key Takeaways

Male activists are needed, not just allies, to create meaningful change for women.
Activism involves taking action, such as calling out inappropriate behavior, rather than just offering support.
Understanding women's experiences in male-dominated spaces is crucial for effective activism.
Men should be encouraged and empowered to step outside their comfort zones to support gender equality.
Workplace culture can improve significantly when men actively participate in challenging sexism and bias.

Summary

The video highlights the difference between male allies and male activists in supporting women's rights and equality.
Katie and Lisa share experiences from organizing events and campaigns to raise awareness about women's challenges in male-dominated environments.
Activism is defined as taking action for change, while allyship is more about support and standing by.
Men are encouraged to actively call out inappropriate behavior and support women beyond passive allyship.
The speakers discuss the importance of men understanding the lived experience of women in professional settings.
Examples are given of microaggressions and workplace challenges women face, emphasizing the need for male intervention.
The video stresses that activism does not require constant public advocacy but timely and courageous action when needed.
Personal stories and mentoring experiences illustrate the ongoing gender issues in corporate and tech environments.
The conversation addresses the discomfort some men feel about activism and how to overcome it.
The overall goal is to foster a culture where men become proactive advocates for gender equality.

Chapters

Full Transcript — Download SRT & Markdown

Speaker A

So what exactly I didn't want to happen happened. We follow football, and as soon as the football talk ends, all the men run out of the room. So if you're a man and you're still here and you came for the football, can you sit the [expletive] down, please?

Speaker A

for the football can you sit the [ __ ] down please um because I I've think well we've just been discussing this I'm going to get straight on it hi I'm Katie um activ M sounds really [ __ ] scary

Speaker A

Because I, I think, well, we've just been discussing this. I'm going to get straight on it. Hi, I'm Katie. Activism sounds really [expletive] scary, but it is exactly what us women need. It's not just allies.

Speaker A

excellent there's a few um for international women's day I put on an event I wanted to do something that was a bit different Lisa came along and because often as women in the boardroom it is mainly us women that are on own

Speaker A

And the reason that I'm super passionate about this, well, one is because does anyone in here follow me on LinkedIn? Doesn't matter if I literally have hardly any hands up.

Speaker A

game and get a man to understand what it felt like to be in a room full of women so we ran a bit of a campaign on LinkedIn asked guys to apply to come so that they could hear our voices so that

Speaker A

Excellent, there's a few. For International Women's Day, I put on an event. I wanted to do something that was a bit different. Lisa came along, and because often as women in the boardroom, it is mainly us women that are on our own.

Speaker A

actually she's CTO um at Deckers which is uggs and all nice you know cool shoes that we all love and she said Katie the her kind of ending comment was we do not need male allies we need male activists

Speaker A

And we're in a room of, you know, I'm going to be really mean today, sorry guys, but pale stale males. That is how I have lived the majority of my career. I wanted to flip that over and change the game and get a man to understand what it felt like to be in a room full of women.

Speaker A

what I've based today's panel upon um I would love if there are men in the room you know for you guys to become these activists that we maybe need but I'm I'm actually going to hand back to you Lisa

Speaker A

So we ran a bit of a campaign on LinkedIn, asked guys to apply to come so that they could hear our voices, so that they could understand where we're coming from. And I think it was quite an impactful afternoon, wasn't it?

Speaker A

interesting I think about positioning the difference between activists and allies so over to you Lisa so I looked up the hi I'm Lisa I'm Lisa pora which no one can pronounce so uh when I go to a restaurant I just say pashi because

Speaker A

But one of the amazing ladies in the room, she is, I can't remember her job title now, I think a eCommerce director or no, actually she's CTO at Deckers, which is Uggs and all nice, you know, cool shoes that we all love.

Speaker A

support right so that's really the main theme of uh of being an ally which is great but activism as a definition is to to take action for change and I think that's really where it lies it's really good to have support and maybe the

Speaker A

And she said, Katie, the her kind of ending comment was, we do not need male allies, we need male activists.

Speaker A

how to do things or how to be and I think maybe that's the kind of danger of what that word uh kind of resonates with some but yeah that's really the the definition of those two words and you've

Speaker A

Because we need men in the room that are happy to call out other men or other women when they're saying something derogatory, when they're not talking in the right frame of mind. And yeah, it just really, really stuck with me.

Speaker A

uh this is work or an area of of my work that's become more sort of prominent in the last couple of years um I need to sort of give a little bit of context if that's okay to sort of where that came

Speaker A

So that is what I've based today's panel upon. I would love if there are men in the room, you know, for you guys to become these activists that we maybe need. But I'm actually going to hand back to you, Lisa,

Speaker A

running these amazing sort of panel discussions about all these incredible topics that were affecting females all different types of females um and I was sitting in the audience realizing that it wasn't my time to speak because there were all these stories about other types

Speaker A

first up because you gave, do you want me to read out the little thing that you just sent me? Have you got it? Because I've, because I've forgotten it and my mom's trying to pH me.

Speaker A

affected when they'd gone back to work work and I started to realize that I hadn't really heard these stories before I'd not really absorbed them or really given them kind of the consideration that they deserved and I sent a message

Speaker A

So Lisa brought up something really interesting, I think, about positioning the difference between activists and allies. So over to you, Lisa.

Speaker A

solutions as well and uh she said oh Seb how do you fancy being our head of allyship and I was like well that's kind of Zero to Hero but okay um so and I've been doing that work for about a year

Speaker A

So I looked up the, hi, I'm Lisa, I'm Lisa Pora, which no one can pronounce. So when I go to a restaurant, I just say Pashi because that's now who I am.

Speaker A

I think more men need to understand you know words like activism and allyship can be a bit off-putting and I think some people think I don't really have time for that I've got a job to do my life's really busy what they don't

Speaker A

So yeah, I've looked up the definition of what an ally is. So ally comes from a Latin word called algra, I think, and it basically means to stand by, to support, right?

Speaker A

head I always get saying wrong but you know we're not expecting you guys to be chanting about this every day on social or you know even saying anything that's outside of your comfort zone it's just when you see the [ __ ] call it now it's

Speaker A

So that's really the main theme of being an ally, which is great. But activism as a definition is to take action for change, and I think that's really where it lies.

Speaker A

team at a very large UK business and one of the amazing women that I'm mentoring at the moment said to me the other day she was on a call and one of the guys she's she's in a tech team product Tech

Speaker A

It's really good to have support, and maybe the difference is, oh, I'm sorry that happened, but calling out and saying no, that's not okay is kind of where activism is in this scenario.

Speaker A

because you I'm a woman taking a man down because I'm you know if I get married and it just she just it just was totally the wrong tone for a work call now all the guys would have probably

Speaker A

I don't, we're not saying that you should be an activist and constantly go and tell everyone how to do things or how to be, and I think maybe that's the kind of danger of what that word kind of resonates with some.

Speaker A

up or say what they want to say in a meeting and it's t you know that doesn't even sound that offensive right but it is and it made her feel like she couldn't speak up in her meeting because

Speaker A

But yeah, that's really the definition of those two words, and you've got some comments on that, I know.

Speaker A

or having a chat with and that goes for women as well right like I need to get better at calling things out Katie deal sat in the front here who used to work work for me and we worked with some

Speaker A

Yeah, my name is Seb. I run my own coaching consultancy, The Helpful Space. I also used to be a development coach over Social Chain.

Speaker A

employed mainly women um but you know it was quite offensive so we called him out on it and he was really apologetic he didn't mean it he hadn't even thought what it meant so it's just us as well

Speaker A

And I guess this is, this is work or an area of my work that's become more sort of prominent in the last couple of years.

Speaker A

absolutely love met her in a standup comedy gig we haven't kind of bigged up who she is she sold her Agency for multi-millions of pounds she's an absolute Rockstar she's hopefully teaching me how to sell my business for

Speaker A

I need to sort of give a little bit of context, if that's okay, to sort of where that came from.

Speaker A

anyway just big up to Lisa before I hand back over to her okay thanks for that uh yeah that that is true I did run a Agency for 15 years and then solder had a breakdown then start doing comedy

Speaker A

But essentially, I don't know, there's a lot of marketing people here, you probably know Bloom in London and Bloom North in Manchester.

Speaker A

something out and and when to support right so um we had a little chat beforehand uh and I I find this really interesting because having been working in uh SEO so I run at SEO agency which is very male focused so I started in

Speaker A

And I used to go to these Bloom North events because all my female friends were running these amazing sort of panel discussions about all these incredible topics that were affecting females, all different types of females.

Speaker A

no that is definitely wrong it's harder when it's like small micro things that the person might not even know what they're saying but um just to give you some examples and and this is where I think I think we really need to to to

Speaker A

And I was sitting in the audience realizing that it wasn't my time to speak because there were all these stories about other types of people.

Speaker A

employeers I mail and all the technical questions they asked the the the guys and this was like perfect example of allow ship so these guys were like in the early 20s I kind of trained them and one of them just said look I think it's

Speaker A

And what happened was I just started to hear these stories a bit more closely. I started to hear about microaggressions in the workplace, and I started to understand how women who'd maybe had children had been affected when they'd gone back to work.

Speaker A

anything he just pointed out the truth and that's all you need to do um uh or uh other scenarios I've had oh there's been so many uh but I did a pitch uh again running an agency where in the

Speaker A

And I started to realize that I hadn't really heard these stories before. I'd not really absorbed them or really given them kind of the consideration that they deserved.

Speaker A

whether you're going to have another baby and I was like oh my God I can't believe this has actually happened and we were actually given the feedback that they chose the other agency it was between two at that stage because they

Speaker A

And I sent a message to the president. This was a female-run committee of all women, and I said, I feel like more men need to hear this stuff, right?

Speaker A

is just very obvious that action and activism is necessary but there is also a lot of examples where the it's is finer and um and I know you have lot of examples of this I just just going back

Speaker A

Because men have been part of the systems that have caused the problems, and men therefore need to be part of the solutions as well.

Speaker A

like we're talking about problems here and challenges when people say the wrong thing but we also need to helicopter out of that a bit and just think about what we should all try and do a bit more of

Speaker A

And she said, oh Seb, how do you fancy being our head of allyship? And I was like, well, that's kind of zero to hero, but okay.

Speaker A

or or books or whatever this is this is what people need to do because we know that we're being played off against one another it's going to happen soon again with the election everyone is polarized everyone is siloed within the same group

Speaker A

So I've been doing that work for about a year and a half now, and I feel really sort of passionate about it because for me it's the journey that you go on as you learn about this stuff and what it does for you personally and in your work.

Speaker A

are all like great things that will that are skills that you will develop if you start to lean into the work in this particular way and I think it's really powerful maybe the problem though is that I feel like a lot of women have

Speaker A

I think more men need to understand, you know, words like activism and allyship can be a bit off-putting, and I think some people think, I don't really have time for that, I've got a job to do, my life's really busy.

Speaker A

selling it I still got those comments and and they don't disappear and then going into comedy oh my God that is a pit so you know like that's a I I love that that we should see this as a as a

Speaker A

What they don't realize is that there'll be some learning for them along the way that's really important.

Speaker A

and it's great that we um we try to encourage but also it is time to just say it's enough now and that's not acceptable and I think that's also that can also be done in a way that that is

Speaker A

Very good. I mean, this is what we need more of. It's like, I think kind of Seb's put the hit the nail on the head.

Speaker A

true right like we're we're Tau sorry I just have to play in here said because I know you've got something to say but I'm just no I love to talk um that you we're taught from a young age I mean God I was

Speaker A

I always get saying wrong, but you know, we're not expecting you guys to be chanting about this every day on social or even saying anything that's outside of your comfort zone.

Speaker A

but like you know to be the cool girl to you know it's fine let your boyfriend go out till 5:00 a.m. and you know treat you like [ __ ] and cheat on you if you go mental then you look like a mental [ __ ]

Speaker A

It's just when you see the [expletive], call it now. It's almost that simple, that tiny little change that would make the biggest difference to us.

Speaker A

here like you know that you know it's fine for guys they can do what they like like I'm not saying that but this is this is how I grew up you I'm a 41 year old woman this is how I was brought up

Speaker A

In fact, I mentor an amazing group of women. I'm not going to call out the business, but it's a social media, the digital and product team at a very large UK business.

Speaker A

put in a corner and oh you're an unattractive woman because you're too bossy do you ever hear a man get called bossy never men don't get called bossy just women so anyway there's a lot there's a lot clearly I'm very

Speaker A

And one of the amazing women that I'm mentoring at the moment said to me the other day she was on a call, and one of the guys, she's in a tech team, product tech team.

Speaker A

chamber like this is about us working together to make some real change and that's where I want to go to set because I know you know you see yourself not necessarily as an activist but as someone that is trying to learn with us

Speaker A

And on the call, one of the guys had recently got engaged, and someone else on the call went, "Oh, man down."

Speaker A

is it that you're trying to do to help us make a change I just I I'm fascinated by people different types of people uh I just think it's that's why I'm a coach I'm really interested in people's stories

Speaker A

And she just felt [expletive]. She was like, I feel excluded. I feel like, you know, you, because you, I'm a woman, taking a man down because I'm, you know, if I get married.

Speaker A

scenarios don't get me wrong like I to I totally get it well I say totally get it I don't because I've not experienced it in the same way as you have um but I think we just need to slow down and

Speaker A

And it just, she just, it just was totally the wrong tone for a work call. Now, all the guys would have probably thought that's quite funny or not even thought about it.

Speaker A

bit on LinkedIn um I got pulled into a thread a conversation by a l a lady who is very prominent in the sort of gender Equity space and very much positive force um and she said Seb you're a head of

Speaker A

Like, we all, you know, I've been there in these conversations, but it makes a lot of women feel like [expletive] [expletive] and then not be able to stand up or say what they want to say in a meeting.

Speaker A

and then a week or so later she did the same thing again and she she tried to Loop me into a thread and I thought I'm not here to fight social media battles for people I'm here to do the work from

Speaker A

And it's, you know, that doesn't even sound that offensive, right? But it is, and it made her feel like she couldn't speak up in her meeting because she was surrounded by a group of men.

Speaker A

people like Seb Randall who is nothing but a performative Ally and it honestly it my voice is shaking a little bit saying it now because for 3 to six months afterwards I thought this isn't the space for me like

Speaker A

So it's calling out little things like that that I promise you will make all the difference, and it doesn't have to be calling out directly in the meeting.

Speaker A

that's an example of someone who understands all the challenges we're talking about and yet they're perpetuating this same similar behavior and I don't understand that at all I I'm so sorry that that that's really [ __ ] um but the I I think that's

Speaker A

It can be taking someone aside afterwards or having a chat with, and that goes for women as well, right? Like, I need to get better at calling things out.

Speaker A

women we really should allow everyone to be able to do what they feel comfortable with and and maybe that's the word activism it sounds scary but um you can't shout to someone and then expect them to change their mind

Speaker A

Katie Deal sat in the front here, who used to work for me, and we worked with some amazing, some amazing teams.

Speaker A

does happen and it happens especially on social media where everyone just wants to furiously say what they think at that time but um but that is yeah that is the kind of ccel culture I feel which which isn't right no not helpful now we've got

Speaker A

But there was one particular person that used to refer to us because my business is called Street and my name is Katie Street, the street girls, and a few of the team because we were, I have by accident employed mainly women.

Speaker A

maybe yes just say I I can't be roped into all of those sorry oh my God I can talk forever I love this don't put us on stage together it'll never end right I have one minute so my one wrap up and

Speaker A

But, you know, it was quite offensive, so we called him out on it, and he was really apologetic.

Speaker A

all of you lovely lot um the more people understand so for me my thing as a woman or a man speak up about the things that you've seen or heard Lisa yes same like just speak up when it

Speaker A

happens and don't be afraid to tell someone because I think as wom especially there will be many stories uh and being able to tell someone also helps um I'm going to dissect this the speak up bit because a little framework

Speaker A

that I really like is um call in the bad behavior so so first off try and call it in so it's almost like if you were talking to you you know when your parents have a view that's a little bit

Speaker A

uh dad you can't really say that you know you sort of pull them aside and you tell them don't you if that doesn't work and and it still continues maybe call on somebody else who can help you communicate to that person look I

Speaker A

mentioned that to you before and we really think that you need to stop doing that and then if that doesn't work call out the behavior I mean obviously there's certain situations where it where you do need to maybe call out

Speaker A

straight away but I think that's a nice way of you know thinking exactly how you're going to do it in a way that's compassionate yet fair or whatever so yeah I love that Fab thanks guys big round of applause for my amazing

Speaker A

panelists

Topics:male activistsmale alliesgender equalitywomen in workplaceactivismallyshipworkplace diversityInternational Women's Daygender biaswomen empowerment

Frequently Asked Questions

What is the main difference between a male ally and a male activist according to the video?

The video explains that an ally supports and stands by women, while an activist takes direct action to challenge and change inappropriate behavior and systemic issues.

Why do the speakers believe male activists are more important than male allies?

They believe male activists are crucial because they actively intervene and call out sexism and bias, which leads to real change, whereas allies may only offer passive support.

How can men become effective activists for gender equality?

Men can become effective activists by listening to women's experiences, understanding the challenges they face, and courageously calling out inappropriate behavior when they witness it.

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