Speaker A
Tell me, do you remember your first guest? I do, because it was a total fuck-up.
Taras Tustanivskyi shares the journey of creating Stara Pravda hotel brand, from early struggles to innovative hospitality in Ukraine.
Key Takeaways
- Successful hospitality requires a unique, guest-centered approach rather than just providing rooms.
- Merging resources and brands can increase profitability and market presence.
- Personal resilience and adaptability are crucial in overcoming early business and life challenges.
- Strategic land investment near emerging resorts can yield long-term benefits.
- Creating a hotel brand involves continuous innovation, positioning, and understanding guest needs.
What the video covers
- Taras recalls the challenging start with the first hotel guest and initial business struggles.
- He explains merging three hotels under the Stara Pravda brand, increasing earnings by 30%.
- The total room capacity is 54 rooms with a focus on unique guest experience rather than just accommodation.
- Taras shares his background studying banking and working in Britain, learning carpentry to survive.
- He discusses the motivation to create something different beyond owning property, focusing on creation and innovation.
- The purchase of land near a ski resort in Ukraine was a strategic investment linked to future capitalization.
- Taras emphasizes the concept of 'guest' over 'client,' highlighting a personalized, artisanal hospitality approach.
- He describes the philosophy of selling freedom with hotel service and creating memorable experiences.
- The business evolved through economic challenges, currency fluctuations, and adapting to market needs.
- Taras highlights the importance of positioning and risk management in building a sustainable hotel brand.
Chapters
- 00:00First Guest and Early Business Challenges
- 03:20Education and Early Life in Britain
- 06:50Strategic Land Purchase and Investment
- 10:11Business Growth and Economic Challenges
- 14:00Hospitality Philosophy and Guest Concept
- 23:00Brand Positioning and Risk Management
- 29:42Future Vision and Sustainable Development
Full Transcript — Download SRT & Markdown
Speaker A
Probably the biggest one in 17 years of Stara Pravda. How much did the hotel earn in the first month?
Speaker A
In my view, a business succeeds when a person buys a product at a price and feels they got a bargain. We merged three hotels into one, keeping the name Stara Pravda.
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Did you start earning more together? Yes, we started earning more, I think by about 30 percent.
Speaker A
What is your current room capacity? The total room capacity we have is 54 rooms.
Speaker A
What kind of profitability can a hotel realistically bring, and what is your real occupancy rate over the years?
Speaker A
I would advise looking better into a sector that is adjacent, not competing with room capacity. For example, multi-family buildings at an adequate price, rather than resort real estate.
Speaker A
Hello. You are really lucky today. I realize this phrase is quite banal, but today we will have, well, not just a podcast, not just an interview, but a story that fascinates. I have known Taras for many years. During this time,
Speaker A
he has made the truly impossible possible. Taras is so meticulous; he has been improving, developing, adding, and living this process all this time.
Speaker A
The concept of a "guest" was something I first heard from Taras, when everyone was saying "client," back when it wasn't even mainstream. I didn't understand him then—what guest, what is he talking about? But his attitude toward this, let's say, act of creation
Speaker A
—because it’s not just about hotels. They gave the opportunity to achieve the impossible. Time truly stops here.
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And that is not just some phrase. At first, I didn't understand it, but when you live a super active life, live in an active rhythm, in an active place, the opportunity to reset, the opportunity to slow down, it is vitally
Speaker A
necessary. That is why today, at Stara Pravda, time stops here. Taras, welcome. Welcome as my guest. Glad to see you at Stara Pravda. Everything started with a dream. Somewhere, sometime, it was born when we were in Britain. We also left
Speaker A
for Britain with my wife because of a dream. I had a great student life and studied in Ternopil. All my classmates were trying to leave for Britain, those who wanted to live differently. I was among them, because I have a wonderful
Speaker A
family. I thank them that I was and am a part of this family. But I wanted to live differently. Some opportunities were opening up. I understood that I needed to go to Britain to earn some money. It was very difficult.
Speaker A
Why Britain? Where from? What year was that? It was '99, the year, but I left in 2001, I couldn't for two years. But I finally made it there. Why in Britain?
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Because we had an international department at the Ternopil Academy of National Economy, and the international students were always more advanced; I was studying banking. And they were the first to start going there.
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They found a way. They found a way, they would come back, bring money, we’d convert it into hryvnias, and realize it was like outer space, and so on. And so, there was some sort of only path I could see to
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realize myself, because as I’ve already mentioned, my father dreamt of seeing me...as a banker in a white shirt and so on. Well, at that time, the salary was 20-30 dollars a month.
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A month. In '98 there was a crisis, the dollar went from two to five, and the average salary for teachers or doctors was like 25-30 a month. There was simply no money at all. And people were looking for, well, an opportunity to survive in
Speaker A
the literal sense. And back then, opportunities were opening up in places like Spain, Portugal, some went to the States, and Great Britain. It was impossible to leave. We couldn't even dream of a visa. It was a completely different time. There was no internet
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as such. There were no computers. There were no mobile phones. There were no mobile phones. I bought my first mobile phone right there. So.
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And when my wife and I finally managed to leave, the reality was a bit different from what the guys showed us when they came back buying fancy perfume or some Calvin Klein shirt. And they were, you know, everything in our
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eyes. And it was a bit harsh there, but I think that very harshness gave me an emotional start in life, because after getting onto a construction site and thinking my whole life that I had two left hands, it’s a long and
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interesting story. I worked, like everyone starts there, what they call "labor" in England, which means cleaning up, sweeping, carrying cement, and everything else. So. But I saw our guys working as carpenters and having BMW X3s, X4s, and I thought, how could I
Speaker A
not learn this? And there was a guy from Ukraine who saw that I was interested. He said, "Listen, pay me a week's salary, I won't go to lunch for a whole week and I'll teach you to be a
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carpenter." And we went for it. And in this way... I figured it out. But do you know what was the hardest part? Honestly fooling the English into thinking you're an experienced carpenter, because you go to the store, buy everything new, you
Speaker A
have a new belt, new tools, and you're not supposed to. Well, we would actually take a stone and scrape things so they would look old and worn, and that's how we managed, yes, but that’s how we got on our feet. I
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realized right away, uh, I clearly remember what set us apart from thousands of other Ukrainians. Usually, people went to earn money for their own house, their own apartment, and so on.
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That, well, for me, I never thought about where I would live. I was thinking about what I would create, uh, how it would work. I was just, just dreaming about it.
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But how old were you, and where did this drive come from? Because at that time, having a house, having a car, and having something to live on in Ukraine was considered, I don’t know, just, well, the pinnacle. Uh, well, when we
Speaker A
returned from Britain, I was 25 years old. And in reality, there wasn't a deep thought like, "Oh, there's Bukovel, I'll go there," and so on. There was a clear thought while we were in England and the Revolution of Dignity
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happened. We saw how two presidents, Saakashvili and Yushchenko, were skiing at a new fashionable resort. I googled what it was back then and sent my mom to buy a plot of land, because I understood that a ski resort in Ukraine
Speaker A
would mean capitalization of the land. Mom made it here, that's a story in itself, she arrived with three transfers, arrived at night, and had nowhere to stay. She met a woman who was the owner of this land. And Mom
Speaker A
says, "Are you selling the land plot?" She says, "I am selling, I'm not selling." How is that? "I have the plot of land, but I don't quite have the funds to privatize it." I asked Mom, "How much, but I hadn't even seen the
Speaker A
plot yet." Back then there was no Viber to show it, evaluate it, and so on. I say, "Mom, it's nice, very nice." "No driveway, nothing later." Well, you were buying a plot here while you were working abroad.
Speaker A
Yes, just so that it would grow in value and I could sell it. What was the price at that time? How many ares? We bought it for $1,500 [per unit]. There. But there is an interesting story with her, how, uh,
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kindness always returns as kindness. When we were buying this plot of land, I didn't have all the funds. And I agreed with this woman, Mrs. Maria, that I would pay her in installments.
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We paid for 10 ares immediately, and the other 10... And the price, while I was paying it off, was already three, because it was a very sharp start. That was in 2004. And when I came, realizing that they wouldn't sell it to me for
Speaker A
what I needed, she says: "You know, no one in the village believes me that a stranger just showed up and gave me money," because we provided the starting funds. I called my mom in England, and I said: "Give it for
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privatization." Mom says: "Well, what if they're strangers, what if they cheat us?" I say: "Well, let it be.
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It's, like, not much money, I don't remember, maybe 500 or 1,000 dollars. That's crazy money. How long did you have to work to earn it?
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That’s an
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that plot of land. And when I returned, I arrived in Bukovel and realized at one point that I hadn’t seen such a concentration of luxury cars per square meter even in London. Yes. Because, well, it was really top-notch, fancy.
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Everyone flocked to Bukovel in winter. And I said to my wife:" Listen, we won't sell this, we're going to build a hotel. "She said:" Well, what about the money? "I said:" We'll sell something.
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"Everything we made in England over five years, we bought two apartments in Kyiv that also appreciated. So we managed to keep up with all this, although it was difficult, but still she supported me, for which I thank her
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. And that is how we started. I took a pencil to it; the guy knows everything.
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I graduated from banking school, and we calculated that it would cost 60,000. It ended up being 300. It turned out to be 300. So you see how deep I was at that moment. I mean, you don't realize, you aren't, but, well, credit, credit,
Speaker A
credit. They were giving out lines of credit back then. We, in our development, went through everything: the currency rate from 5 to 8, devaluations, and all the rest of the story. But, you know, I probably have more of a creative side to me. And a
Speaker A
creative side is very hard to combine with being systematic, but if you can find that balance, it gives you momentum. So I always focused more on the product than on how we were going to get out of it. For some reason, I
Speaker A
always believed that if you have a product, you will have guests. Cool. Look, a lot of young people watch us, because you talk a lot about faith, about a leap of faith, about, you know, an inner desire to achieve something.
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How can the youth, who are sitting, you know, on TikTok around the clock and dreaming only of Ferraris, of Bugattis, of who knows what, instead of something , you know, adequate...Learn to look at things realistically, learn to believe
Speaker A
in themselves, and what should they do? What would you advise? Well, look, first of all, I don't know how to, uh, pull them out of those things. And maybe we shouldn't pull them out, because it's a tribute to
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their time, and perhaps, in principle, the phone and technology have broken, uh, broken the life script that lasted for thousands of years. I mean, in the past, you couldn't be rich at 20, period. No matter what you did, but now
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you can be a star at 20, you can be a millionaire, you can be anything.
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A trader, anything you want. And you don't need to have a lot of connections or status for that. You can , I don't know, have your song played on the radio because you went viral on YouTube, yes, and so on and so forth.
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So, this is a time of opportunity. But when I thought—I often thought about this topic—why is it used so little?
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First, because we lived in a time of information scarcity, when you had to go and find it. And when you found it, you were ahead. But now that it’s available to everyone, the question is how to filter through tons of content,
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where to find the time to watch what you need and grow, rather than what is being shoved down your throat. So I don't have some special, but first: believe in yourself boundlessly. This is something many parents of my
Speaker A
generation fail to provide. Yes, you have to believe in your children boundlessly, to the very end, even if it seems to you that the child is on the wrong path or something else.
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That's one. Because that shapes their attitude. Second is to try. Without trying, there are no options. Meaning, if a child understands that a mistake is just the final step before success, and not the end, so they can't try
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again and it won't escalate further, making them feel inadequate or like they’re not cut out for business and so on. That's second. And, of course, to test, test, test.
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How did it all begin? What year was it? We started in 2005, not understanding at all what a mountain was in reality and what it meant to bring up materials . I will say that I remember for the
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rest of my life that delivery from Frankivsk was cheaper than reloading it onto a Ural truck by the main road and bringing it here. I mean, 100 kilometers, or even 150. In the end, when I calculated it, it was cheaper
Speaker A
for me to just buy a ZIL truck. But you had to understand that, you had to have the insight. There you go. But step by step, we finally opened. We opened in 2007. And our unique feature was where"
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Old Truth "was born. I spent a long time traveling and couldn't figure out which style to use for the rooms. I saw that everything was so typical, and I didn't like any of it. It annoyed me because if you say" no, "you have to
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say" how? "Instead of just saying" no. "So I started looking and stumbled upon some guys who made everything by hand without buying anything from a store.
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We decided that we would make all the rooms in different designs, but in the same style. And that is how" Old Truth "was born. Like, what do we want to show? We want to show people the truth of how people lived before. And if it's
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about that, then how" old "is it? So I tested it on friends, and they said it was easy to remember. Yes, we launched the facility. Those were great years in terms of...well, there was a small supply, yes, the resort was only
Speaker A
for winter, but there was little supply on the market. And I think if I had the experience I have now, I would have sold at a much higher price then, but back then there were big loans and this
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nervousness that you wouldn't be able to pay them back; better a bird in the hand, and so on. But the idea, going back, as we...remember, I said that we bought the plot just to sell it, but then decided to build. I went there,
Speaker A
arrived late. I went skiing, got delayed, wanted to find a place to stay , stopped at five different spots, but it was evening and everywhere was booked. And in one Hutsul house, a type of mini-hotel like the one we later
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started, a folding bed cost 80 dollars, I think. And I, yes, I lay on it, not very comfortably, looked at the ceiling , and counted the millions. Yes. Well, he's a banker, after all. Right.
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What you need, you need. Right away, I came home and said to my wife," That's it, "well, we have this thing where we make a great team. In what sense? She always shoots down any idea I have. But
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it's cool when you realize that you can prove it constructively, and it strengthens your idea even more. And and she, I remember, said:" Well, I see those eyes, no need to talk anymore.
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Well, and that's how we started. " Tell me, do you remember your first guest? I do remember, because it was a total screw-up, probably the biggest in the 17 years of Stara Pravda, because people from Crimea arrived, a group...
Speaker A
and it hadn't even been 20 minutes since we prepared everything, when the administrator runs in and says: They want the owner, they are calling for you because something is wrong. I walk into the room, there's a woman of about
Speaker A
30 standing there and saying:" I'm cold . "And I, you know, I don't understand, because she's wearing a T-shirt just like yours. -25 outside, 25 degrees in the room. Uh, and she says:" I'm cold.
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"And I'm like, well, well, I remember her phrase:" Well, we, uh, she said it in Russian: 'We are southern people, we are cold'. "And I realized then that, you know, it's very important in business not to be infatuated with your
Speaker A
own child. Because people see the world differently. And it happens, especially in this business, that people often end up in the wrong hotel, not the one they should be in, not their kind of hotel, because they didn't take the time to do
Speaker A
some research. Because if you had researched it, you would have seen: no, this isn't for me, I'm a different type of person, I should go there. And when they arrive and see a picture that is different from what they imagined, you
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are the one dealing with all the problems because this is not your guest . They should have stayed in another hotel. And so, how did you solve it?
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How did you solve it? I solved it very simply. It's about to happen, you understand?
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There are no other options. You, you just need to stoke the boiler and, like , 50 shots of liqueur or whatever was common.
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That was a given. Well, I mean, that's a given. But later, with, well, I thought I would finish that business with that group, because then they went downstairs and, uh, it was very harsh, and our kitchen was only three square
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meters. Well, no exaggeration, only one person could stand there, and it was a building for 20 people, I think. And they came in and were very rude to her, said some nasty things back and forth.
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And it put the person into such a stupor that she couldn't even pour the broth, I remember it like it was today, they were this. That's what was happening, she was standing there, I say:" You, you can do it. "Look, you
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see, you understand, one way or another we served that broth. I went to bed.
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The dreams about getting a return were fading here and there. But the morning came. Morning always brings light, it always does. And how much did the hotel earn in the first month?
Speaker A
Oh, for the first month, I don't remember, but look, I definitely remember that in that period, the payback was about 4.5 years. Cool.
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So, yes, it was once again a small supply, if you did something interesting, you know what our other special feature was? I answered the phone myself. Ah, well you might not believe it, but as long as we had this
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house and another cottage, which is eight rooms, there was still some level of trust and I remember that story, we had ideas for a joint project with Taras and he was always on the phone and he wanted to
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find someone then, to boost it, and that was it. I remember, I remember how deeply he, let's say, asked questions, dove in, to truly understand it. It was hard for me to hand it over because I was still in debt, and I understood, I
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saw how people's tone changed when, after five answers, they would say:" Excuse me, what position do you hold there? "And when you said you were the owner, it was like a trigger to press the booking button, because" Aha. "If
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the owner is talking like this, well, it won't be any other way, he must.
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That's it. And that lasted for a long time. Although, again, I advise everyone to know one thing: the faster you delegate and the more you delegate, the more you grow exponentially, because you free up your time for more
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useful, larger-scale tasks. Sure. That's cool, right? That's spot on. You talk a lot about such a super-individual approach, maximally artisanal, to dissolve yourself in every person, in every guest. And I remember hearing from you for the first time this concept that it is a guest.
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Not some tourist, or client. There were really so many of them back then. Let's be frank, there was no supply. Others would say:" Yeah, you don't like it, goodbye, sir, "you know, the conversation was short because they knew they were on top, it was
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unrealistic to book anything. You would ask, pay crazy money for terrible conditions there, and people thought it would always be like that. Where did this concept of hospitality come from for you? Why did you start calling tourists" guests "? Well, look, it
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probably comes from the roots of my upbringing, from my family. My mother worked back then in the former USSR, in the tourism business, and They accommodated 500 guests from all over the entire Soviet Union. It was a trade
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union and state-run establishment, not exactly a specialized one. But nonetheless, I was very often...
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Catering, a hotel and catering in Drohobych near Truskavets...yes, and I still remember the Uzbeks who came...
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and I really liked it there. And the second trigger, I suppose, is that I always loved it when guests came to our home more than when we went somewhere with the family. My parents are very sociable, very outgoing people, and
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this, probably, is why...yes, I am sincerely happy that I work in a business that gives emotions, because not everyone is that lucky. Why?
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Because when you go on vacation, you are usually not yourself. You want to switch off, you want to be in some other state, your heart beats differently. You have a new picture, new emotions, you brought your wife, and so on. And that is why I like it. I
Speaker A
mean, when the coolest ideas come, or when you think about what’s next, when you don’t want to do anything anymore, but you walk around the grounds and see that, that drive in the evening, seeing how great people are
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having it, you go: No, like, we will continue. Cool. It’s about the hospitality gene .
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It’s about the hospitality gene. And, in my opinion, a business works when a person buys a product at a price and thinks they got it for a bargain. I mean, we always knew how to work, it seems to me, in the right segment, in
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the right price range, that is, for a day of rest, we matched our guest. And maybe we could have afforded a higher price, or something else, but it’s always important to me when a person leaves and says:" No, for this money,
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this is practically nothing. "That’s when I understand that I have a chance for a repeat purchase. Because, look, for some time now I haven't believed in a regular guest, or in the concept of a regular guest at all. Why? Because when
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the internet era arrived and then social media appeared, it became crucial for people to show their lives as dynamically as possible in different locations; that's how people measure success now and so on. Therefore, they will definitely go to other places. But
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I also understand that people from other places will come to us. So it is important for you to understand this and perform your work with quality.
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Cool. Tell me, do you really have this hospitality gene? I see how carefully you watch over the territory, who's doing what. You know, you’re always on break here, yet you’re constantly working, noticing the little things.
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How do you know if the team you’re picking has it, and is it something innate or can it be taught? Well, here is the simplest example. Drop something at your feet, like a candy wrapper, and just walk past that spot. A great
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person who has this gene will definitely notice it. It’s banal, simple, and so on. But, speaking more globally, the person glows—the one who can do good for people, because this is actually a complex business.
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You have to love strangers here. Love people, yes, strangers. The stay is very short, and the average length of stay is currently decreasing, so you have less time to earn a person's respect, the chance for them to return, a high rating, and
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everything else. Therefore, there is no time for friction here. You must meet the guests 'expectations, and not just with a fake, superficial American smile . You must love people.
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Is it innate or can it be taught? I think it’s about 50/50, but everything we have to this day, I owe only to the people who have walked this path with me. Some are already in other businesses. And I am very happy when
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people leave us and create something new, because that means I did my homework right. And that’s cool, really cool. There you go. And some are still with us. And regarding so-called culture, you always have to be confident in your top people, and then
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they re-transmit it to the rest of the team. Yes. But you have to be sincere with them, first. Then, as I say, you find those people, and then you don't lose their trust, because that happens very often. And understand that your
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word isn't always final, because that's important, it's very important. If people see that you don't believe in their potential, you are making the biggest mistake that can exist in business. Even if you see that a mistake is going to happen, if
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it’s not critical, let them make it. Innate or acquired? If you put it that way, then innate.
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How do you feel that a person has it, besides the wrapper trick? As a rule, a great smile. I don't know how it works, but it's a fresh, open face, a smile, and potential. So I perceive it as a game. If I see that
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the rules I talk about ignite a person, that’s my kind of person. So, we ran our business like that for a year. And even back then, I realized that, on one hand, we had to pay off loans, and on
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the other, I realized that life was completely different from what we had imagined. And you really can’t expand much with just eight rooms. There you go. And by the way, I’ll recall a very interesting story. In 2007, we had
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just opened, and this building, the land plot, the house, the electricity —all these investments fall onto your first property. And someone offered me a million dollars. He was an Armenian.
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He came to vacation. It’s a story. And you know, I specifically mention this to show what it’s like when you lack experience. I had invested 300 back then, in 2007. Uh, do you understand? I mean, I even thought,
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yes, I even thought that the guy was just joking around after having a bit of cognac in the evening. He called again as he was leaving early, and again a week later. And you know what I replied to him? Because it was really
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so hard for me to build this up here on the mountain, and I told him:" Friends are not for sale. "But in reality, well , to be honest, I don't regret anything in my life. Because, well, the amount
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of emotions we've given people over 17 years and the plans we have—it's really cool. But the point is, if I had the experience, that was an offer I should have accepted. Because, well, you remember what happened in 2008, the
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crash and everything else. Listen, you and that million. Yes, that’s just by the way. There you go. And then we realized we needed to move forward, but it was a dilemma, because on one hand, we had to pay off
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loans, and you know, every year I saw bigger capital entering Bukovel, the check, the entry ticket keeps getting higher, and you keep catching up, catching up, catching up. But my brother and a cousin came to visit, and we asked that woman...they asked me:"
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Listen, it's so great here, maybe we could build something, ask if there is land. "She still had some, and she sold it piece by piece, and we all created different brands, and we kept working hard until 2020. And why? Because
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everything was already taken anyway. I mean, we were, but Ales told us more than once:" Guys, we're doing something wrong. We have three marketing strategies, three brands that need to be developed. "So that's three ad campaigns, three receptions, three
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booking departments. What for? If each little hotel has, say, 40-50 people, and everyone said:" Yes, you're right, but you know, when everything is booked , well, there's nothing else. "And then competition started to grow. And we returned to that question. And I
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consider it a very interesting case. We merged three hotels into one, keeping only the old one because it was the most established brand at the time, had awards, and it followed logically. It was very difficult to negotiate, and
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the case is actually very interesting. We couldn't reach an agreement for a few days because, how do you merge them when one has more rooms, another has more land potential, and someone says:" I have fewer rooms, but I'm the most
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profitable because I can show that I earned more than you this year. "So, how to combine this into one strategy with one cash flow, one P&L, and so on.
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It's very difficult, but two things saved us. First, before sitting down, we signed that we would reach an agreement. Cool.
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So, when we walked out, and second, when I realized it had been hanging by a thread for a long time and we couldn't do it, I Googled it and found out there is a profession, I don't remember what it's called, that exists
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for such cases. Yes, he comes, yes, he listens to everyone, then everyone together. And when I found out how much he costs, it was, I think, something like 7,000 €. I came and said:" Guys, let's stop, we can't
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do it, we have 7,000, and 20 minutes later we had signed. "See how money works? That's it. And in reality, even though we are all close people, this is a very cool case: a strict contract with written rules. For example, none
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of the co-owners has the right to directly criticize any of the staff. So yes and there is even a penalty for such remarks if you really want to. So there is a management company, you address it , and it must resolve everything you
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have, of course, manage your business, and so on, but you don't break the culture when you haven't been in the business for half a year, someone has been building it, and you arrive and just trash it. Like a manager who
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swoops in, pecks at everyone, and leaves. Therefore, okay. What did it achieve? Explain from the perspective, well, so our viewers understand what it yielded.
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Look, first of all, it immediately gives you weight. You give the guest more, because guests were already using the same territory anyway. They perceived it as one hotel, the one that is there. And secondly, these are cheaper, cheaper purchases. Thirdly,
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you cut costs across all your expenses, as far as, uh, you need one administrator instead of three. You need one booking department there, and so on and so forth. And your leverage in external competition with suppliers also grows. Because before, the three
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of you were choosing a little bit each, but now you become one, you can negotiate a different price. You have, have, well, these are just advantages, if we're talking about money. Did you start earning more together? We started
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earning more, I think, by about 30 percent. Cool. So, conditionally, everyone gained 30%from the merger.
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Yes. Yes. Well, we, of course, also implemented something together, we didn't just merge. And we had an agreement that everyone had to do their part before the merger. We implemented that, wrote a plan for what we need to
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do in the coming years. And what is your room inventory now? total our room inventory is 54 rooms.
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At one of the development trainings, we analyzed the general model of the hotel business and calculated that for a hotel to be profitable, it needs at least 43 rooms, because there are fixed costs, variable costs, seasonality, and occupancy. What do you say about that?
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Uh, look, it's very individual. Uh, as far as, because you understand, two neighboring hotels can have different occupancy rates, even if they share the same view. Uh, people work there too, but they have completely different daily operations. Yes, a lot depends on
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the region, because, well, conditionally, for Switzerland, a 50- room hotel is like five for us, but in some other place at the end of the world, 50. That is a large one.
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Therefore, uh, individually, it means what I think from the point of view, and it also depends a lot on the hotel concept. Meaning, if you're talking about not losing, well, because with volume, some soul is definitely lost, that is un-undoubtedly true. And what's
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more, if you try to preserve that, you won't create a new concept and you won't save the old one either. So this is a transition, because you won't break the laws of nature. You can't know all your guests by name when there
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are 300 of them. Right? You can do that as long as there are, I don't know, 50 of them. And you have to change the system. But what I think, if we are talking about the mountains, the most
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optimal for me from the point of view of business quality, its ease, and managing some other aspects, is probably still up to 100 rooms.
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Up to 100 rooms. So, theoretically, knowing everything you know now, would you start a project from scratch? And I see how to make it pay off faster than one with 200-300, right? Well, again, we are talking superficially because we don't know the funding, what
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the infrastructure will be, whether it's a branded hotel or not, because a name, you know, adds value, and so on.
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So you need to understand very deeply, what a hotel is. What is a hotel? Well, look, why does Stara Pravda, let's say, make sense and have its own guests? Because we clearly understand our positioning. We sell freedom with hotel service. I mean, I
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understand that people go to the Carpathians for the Carpathians, not for Stara Pravda or the Smyrichka hotel or any others. Absolutely, they are missing the Carpathians. Therefore, we have a clear rule with our partners to avoid any desire to add, say, five more
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cottages, we monitor the square meters per person, the amount of wilderness, the territory, the view, and everything else. And this is truly difficult, but in my understanding, it is our key advantage. In another hotel, it might be something else, but you have to
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understand what keeps people coming back. And how to understand it, by asking? Just ask and observe. And all the answers are there.
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What is the reason for your high ratings? People, only people. Look, of course, there is the location and so on, but it makes no sense if you are not welcome, you feel it, and then the mountains don't look as beautiful anymore. Only
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people. And, well, all, all, all the success, I owe it to them. We have a great chef, a great manager, a great restaurant director. These are the people, and by the way, we separate our finances very strictly. For us, the
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restaurant is a separate business, and the hotel is a separate business. The hotel interacts through mutual settlements, paying for breakfasts and everything else. We see it very clearly . Therefore, these are the people who are creating our corporate culture. You
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won't believe it, it's, well, we are not typical, and someone might hear this and say, well, you can turn off this podcast. I have never had job descriptions, but everything we do is surrounded by standard working hours, human energy, and everything else, and
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all the rest. But we do have a small guidance program; before starting work, a person learns and gets acquainted with our mission and truth, where we are heading, and what our plans are— it doesn't matter if you came to be a
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housekeeper, you need to know what is important to us. And they know it is critically important to greet every guest, even if you are not sure whether you have seen them before or not, because it really works. And it
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surprises me that it still works this way, because it should be self-evident, but it really does work. It’s in every second video, and it doesn't cost any money at all. That is exactly what can make you different from others.
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Well, you would call the keyword culture. Where there is culture, you don't need instructions, because people live by it. And they aren't putting on an act. They aren't just memorized, like biorobots. They live it. That is very cool. Let's talk about the
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restaurant. Yes, Art-rovitnya. Yes, it is a very delicious and very beautiful restaurant with a view like this. So be sure to visit, and those who watched up to this moment, write down the code for tiramisu: 231023.
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That’s right, I saw the billboard on the way, so go ahead and use it. It's a very cool, great place, beautiful view, great service, and very tasty. You must come visit. What did the restaurant change, because at one time you didn't have it?
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Look, the restaurant gave us a second wind because the restaurant was a challenge. Actually, look, anyone who has any business always faces a choice.
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Sometimes it seems to the guest that we don't see the obvious, but you do see the obvious, but you have limited resources and you are always allocating , you are always in doubt. What is more important to do first, this or that?
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For example, in our case, it was the seasonal spa-restaurant. We decided on the restaurant because it could be implemented faster. And we saw a situation happening where we understood that a guest had arrived, they had money, and they said:" Take it, but how
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? "Yes. And again, we set a goal to make something cool. And that was truly a challenge. But we said right away that we would create a restaurant that people from the region would want to come to, meaning it wouldn't just be
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calculated for our own guests. When you even allow yourself to think that way, it changes everything, yes. Although, again, we are not in the center of the resort. You have to take a taxi, it’s not cheap, and then go back. You
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haven't even eaten yet, but you have already paid a certain sum. So we did have those questions: will they come or not?
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Once again, it is my firm belief that you will always find your client, your guest, when you think about the product , understand who it is for, and when that product is something unique and cool. So, I attribute its success to
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two things. First, there are not many standalone restaurants at hotels in the region. Usually, they are on the ground floor of some building. And it is mentally difficult for a person from another hotel to go there, walk into
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the reception, and ask around; these are the nuances that matter. But here, it is a separate building.
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And second, it is 90%glass. And we talk about this as dining in the forest.
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That is, when you are there in the evening and the forest is illuminated, you cannot even see the glass; you truly feel like you are dining in the forest. And that is something you cannot replicate at home.
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If we talk about money, a restaurant, profitability, a hotel—which is more interesting? Well, look, a restaurant is much more complex. Uh, if we are talking about profitability, then for now, it is still higher in the hotel. Although I
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predict that margins in this business will narrow over a certain period due to three things. First, our salaries have not yet been fully indexed. They will rise due to where we are, the times we are living in, and so on.
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That’s one. Second, energy resources, which are already insane, but they will continue to rise. Third, the tax burden will also change. Until these three factors reach a certain point, it seems to me that margins will fall. That’s it. Regarding the restaurant. In a
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restaurant, it is much harder to maintain standards because in a restaurant, it takes only a couple of days for things to get worse, and then everyone knows about it. In a hotel, there is a certain grace period, and
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you have more time for corrections and so on. Plus food—we all know it is a very subjective thing. For some, it is" wow, "and for others, it is" meh, "so I am sincerely glad that we started off very well. And we have more outside
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guests than internal ones. And a high rating on Google. Uh, then again, 4.9 is a very high rating.
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It is a very high r—honestly, it is very high. Again, I would like it to stay that high with, say, 10,000 reviews, not just half a thousand. And, well, only then can one talk about something stable. But for me, what's
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important is that in this establishment , just like in a hotel where you don't just need a bed, you only half-need food, because people can eat wherever they want. People go to get that experience; they understand it might
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not be cheap, and accordingly, they want extra conditions, extra aesthetics , extra thought, extra presentation, and extra service so they feel heard.
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And you, well, you have to provide that . We just heard again from Taras Tostostanivskyi, a perfectionist, who loves to get a kick out of having one of the highest ratings in the restaurant industry. Well, it's a truly
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cool product. He's aiming for 10,000. And it's always like that. There will be 10,000, then 100,000, and he'll go for a million.
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The journey is more interesting than— people are often asked," Are you happy? "When you're happy on the journey, it's a different story, because you can't be satisfied; you might be happy for 20 minutes, you rejoiced, and you need to
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look at entrepreneurs. They are very often like that, and when you look at big, massive, billion-dollar businesses , it's not about money. It's a question of being needed by someone. It's a question of winning again, because when you've been winning your whole life,
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you need this history. You need a new challenge, you need a new drive, otherwise you start doing things wrong.
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That's what it's about. In short. Taras Tusantsnivskyi. This is a living person who loves and wants to create, because when you create, you share energy. And that is a very, very cool thing, because later it comes back to you. You don't know where more cool
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people in your pool come from. You can enjoy that more and more. And you know, as banal as it may sound, it's cool when you realize that, for example, a lady who used to come here as a little
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girl returns, and you accidentally hear her say," Mom, I remember this place, " and it's inspiring.
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Cool. We are currently seeing a fantastic boom in investment and recreational real estate. What do you think about the Carpathian market as a whole?
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Look, first of all, when you are in the market, you must always look at it optimistically. And I am always for the new, because the new is evolution, and the new is healthy, great competition.
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And that forces you, once again, to keep moving. Meaning, you have a tangible interest, a gain, and so on from that. Even if you aren't doing anything at that moment. And second. I wouldn't be skeptical about the opinions that talk about overheating
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and everything else. Why? Perhaps in the moment, but we understand that everyone who is building and creating, especially the apartments and so on that are multiplying like mushrooms, they are thinking in an optimistic future scenario where everything will
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be fine for us and it will be needed. Yes, that is the first point. The second point is that when something new is created, it is usually a head above what already exists. So it is not a directly proportional increase in the
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number of rooms, because something will die off and there will be fewer of them . This is, once again, the law of evolution, the law of competition. That is why, for example, I look very positively at the fact that the OKO
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Group announced the Goro Slavsko project, because I am convinced that the same processes happen in a family between a husband and wife as they do in large corporations. That is, look, they are doing something, we need to get moving. I think it is no
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coincidence that Bukovel announced [ theirs] after that, because Bukovel has something that, in my opinion, is called a competitive advantage. So, while Goro reaches the point where they certainly won't make the same mistakes Bukovel did, they will, admittedly,
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make their own. That is normal, because only those who do nothing don't make mistakes, but Bukovel has a competitive advantage in that it already exists and can pull ahead on its path of evolution . Something like that. Therefore, I
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understand that there will be even more projects, because due to not quite—or rather, not good at all—reasons, capital has shifted to the west over the last three years in terms of security and in terms of some new markets. People are looking at new
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markets due to circumstances they would rather not see, but we live in these times and we see it. Therefore, the competition here will be tougher, which makes it all the more interesting.
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Cool. But you are talking about an optimistic future scenario, and a thought very often arises: who is supposed to fill all this, who is really going to live in these rooms, apartments, and cottages?
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I will tell you a strange thing. Although the hotel business is not in the basket of essential goods, that is how it works, believe me, [based on] 17 years of experience. The worse the situation gets, the better things are
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for you. Why? Because when people emotionally need a break, they look for it, because when you are backed into a corner, you say," No, let's just hop away somewhere for two days. "Because we will reboot and come back better.
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Sometimes a problem needs to be solved, I see that. Therefore, this business has a right to a chance. The only thing that I think, if I were asked, that is my opinion now: first, either join existing projects and develop them, for
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example, as we are planning. We understand that Stara Pravda still has potential; it already has infrastructure on which you can build and increase the average bill, that is, increase it thanks to new infrastructure and so on. There. Or I
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would advise looking better into a related sector, not competing with room inventory where there is great competition with apartments, but looking at services related to this business. For example, multi-apartment buildings at an affordable price, rather than resort real estate. Who
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will solve that problem? There is nowhere to house top talent. And a person will never be. Top talent is for the long haul. And they will never perceive this as a permanent workplace if they have to live in these
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conditions; they need to have the opportunity to buy an apartment for reasonable money and live here, not be like a shift worker. That’s one.
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Second, a business for staff accommodation, because staff is not just those who work in the hotel. A large number of construction workers building these have nowhere to live. A large number of various types of temporary people coming on business
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trips, but who don't have the budget to live in hotels and so on and so forth.
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And pay attention that this is a business that does not need marketing, does not need catering, you don't have seasonality because such people need it . And we can talk for a long time about a new generation laundry that can
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really take and bite off a big chunk of the market that already exists, because hotels have always washed their linens and will continue to do so. There are many such, like some huge amusement park with rides, there isn't one, right
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. We see that people are looking in this direction, and it is very cool because it creates even more reasons to come to us. I am happy about that, because Hutsul Land has appeared, there is already some entertainment, a Ferris
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wheel that people ride on, some fun, and so on and so forth. There will be cinemas soon, and something else. For example, an event hall where you could hold a concert for 5,000 people.
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Wouldn't it fill up? I think there are young singers for whom the youth would just go. This is another one.
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And these niches are empty. And there you aren't competing with a multitude of people. I would advise that. They arrived in Budapest for the Imagine Dragons concert. They say that it was there for two days, Saturday and Sunday
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, Yes, because more than 40,000 Ukrainians went to that concert. The cost of apartments and hotels in Budapest increased, well, exponentially yes.
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Now tell me, why shouldn't we believe that he could be here? 100%. A pro-Ukrainian stance is possible, and they raised flags, and there were tons of flags at the stadium , so exactly. Yes. And so, imagine an event hall there for 5 or 10,000 seats.
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How much occupancy is that? Do you believe in the foreign tourist? Yes, I do. I am looking forward to them with open arms. And we will be interesting. Ah.
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Why? Why will we be? Because many people will want to understand what kind of place this is. Well, you know, it's like we are, I don't know, like some kind of attraction. Just to get a feel for it, especially since there was a
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lot of talk about Ukrainian hospitality , and now also about our unbreakable spirit. They will want to test what we are made of. And I will tell you honestly, looking back, I could never understand when people first came to us
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in 2005, and most of the guests' phrases started with:" Well, in Europe, well, if only... "I couldn't understand it, because I lived in Europe and traveled through Europe, and where is that Europe? Because I haven't seen such hospitality as ours anywhere else.
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Yes. Where they truly value you, because we are still hungry. Our business is usually first-generation for everyone, not even second.
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Accordingly, we haven't had our fill, we want to be successful, we want to grow quantumly, not step-by-step and so on. Therefore, I am confident that this service will appeal to guests from other countries.
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You say that Stara Pravda has plans for scaled development. What will it be? Or is it a secret?
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Eh, no, it's not exactly a secret. Look , we have closed the, uh, issue, the riskiest issue I believe exists in this business, which is the land issue.
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Because you can have any plans, but until you have bought the land next door, uh, it's a risk to your business.
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We removed this risk, and accordingly, it cost us a year or two of downtime in investments, because you can't do everything at once, especially in uncertain times. There. But we have removed this risk. We want to build a
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family hotel, where a lot of attention will be paid to children. And exactly in the way I understand it, and that inspires me very, very much. And we also plan—and this I will keep a secret—we plan to make a spa, which
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in terms of concept and idea does not yet exist in this region. We are not talking about scale right now. Yes. So it won't be the tallest spa, the biggest spa, and so on, but it will be a very special spa. Uh, I guarantee it.
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Look, our channel is about business. Let’s talk numbers, because we currently see marketing claims of 17%, 128%. What is the real profitability a hotel can bring, and what is your real occupancy rate over the years?
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Specifically. Do you mean, when you ask me, are you referring to investors buying apartments? Did I understand you correctly?
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Yes, apartments, cottages. Look, uh, I respect the colleagues who are working, as well as the people I don't know who are entering the region. And it would be wrong to say that these percentages are inflated or deflated, and so on,
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because why is it wrong? You have to see the deep model. Maybe I only see the surface, and they know something deeper. But I would be cautious about everyone who—let’s, let’s try it differently. If I were entering the
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market, I would probably have an 8% guarantee strategy right now. Uh-huh. Uh, because that is what I really see in these uncertain times. It’s not a fact that occupancy will grow and all the rest, that is if you value your
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reputation and all the rest. But, uh, people use different methods. And it’s very cool to observe, because, for example, someone says:" We won't take, uh, money for management. " That’s hidden marketing, which isn't a lie. It’s great marketing. Someone
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lowers the sales price so that those 10 %are there later, and they say:" This is also a long-term and great strategy, "right? Because, uh, my order will work , and you will ask me:" Sash, you Taras , how are you? "" Yes, the 10%they
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promised is there. "And I run to that same company. Someone, I heard, I think somewhere in Bali, guarantees 10% regardless of occupancy for 10 years until the payback period is reached.
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And they take it from their margin, from what they sell. That is, you immediately lock in a portion of your profit into a special fund from which you don't take money. If your year doesn't yield 10, but yields seven
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point three, you take from your own pocket and pay out. That also makes sense because you are selling a complex , so, uh, everything has its place. I would just pay attention, first, to whether the projects have extensive
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infrastructure, because they need to compete. Second, look at who has been on the market for a long time. Thank God, we have such people, those who build and fulfill their obligations.
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And that is cool. Okay, but is a chain of 8+ villas, with competent management, completely realistic in this market?
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Yes, it's quite realistic in this market, especially when the project has its own core. I mean, it was planned, look, uh, it took off in the winter, uh Mount Residence. It didn't just take off for no reason. First of all, we all
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understand that it took a piece from others, because it's the same product: a hotel, eating, sleeping, spa, and so on. And accordingly, this is the competent positioning of a hotel, which , in my understanding, will be similar to a chain hotel, but as a Ukrainian
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brand from people who have been working in the market for a long time and know how to create it. And we will provide that story that Radisson, for instance, partially covered and still partially covers. And people liked it.
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Therefore, first and foremost, it is a very deep understanding of what you want to do, because anyone can just carve out rooms. I think their experience played a role. Are you saying it right? They came from a great
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school. In the market, we see a large number of apartment and cottage complexes. From the point of view of profitability, what is more profitable: cottages or a hotel?
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Look, these cover different needs. And of course, and once again, who are we talking about? Are we talking about the investor or the person who bought it?
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Because you understand the entry threshold is completely different. If a cottage essentially doesn't need infrastructure, a hotel must have it.
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And these are different demands. When I want to go away, escape the world, and not see the people who serve. They handed me the keys, and I go to the cottage. And this cottage is located, preferably, in a place where I will be
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allowed to think, meditate, and patch up all the holes I've gotten over the last few months. When I want a hotel, I want service, I want to be seen, to be expected here, for the bed linens to be
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changed on time, and so on. And so these are different products, and each must have meaning. But let me tell you, the trend this year, for the first time —if we talk about us, we are in balance because we have both some
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cottages and some rooms—but the trend for the first time this year is that cottages are being rented out very difficultly. Why? I analyzed it because it was a real challenge, and I consulted with colleagues to find out what they were experiencing. It's the
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same story. Why? I really hope this is a temporary thing, but we agreed that gathering a group in these times and agreeing to go somewhere together is becoming extremely difficult, because someone is abroad, someone is at war, someone cannot get there for various
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reasons, like being unable to pass checkpoints. And all of this, it's a complication. It's complex, but it's desirable to have both if you are running a complex.
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I saw a great post of yours on Facebook about what a cottage must have to be successful. Can you highlight the main things for a cottage and a hotel?
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Look, I wrote it while relaxing at a cottage because well, because I was fed up. And to be fair. Maybe we don't have all those points in our cottage since it was built a while ago, and we are adding
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some things, but I’ve seen a huge leap in houses in Western Ukraine and, you know, how it works. Perhaps someone will see this, and it will give them better business implementation. And better business implementation means more people in Ukraine, more in the
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region, which means more for you too. That's definitely true. So, if we are talking about cottages, again, a cottage is a feeling. You have to understand it, go through the guest's journey, what they are supposed to do there. And don't be afraid if a cottage
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is located in a way that you can't even reach it by your own car and have to transfer, because that's part of the attraction. People want to escape, but a cottage must have a view. There must be a well-thought-out terrace. Very
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often terraces are weak; I go to be in solitude, not to sit inside the house.
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Second, very often the terrace is not covered, but I want to watch the rain, which happens very often in the Carpathians. And that is a special pleasure. There are about 12-15 such points, I don't know if it makes sense
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to list them all now. Well, I recommend checking it out, because it's my small guide on how to build a cottage properly to avoid mistakes that will inevitably arise later.
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Look, Taras is as modest as ever. Definitely find Taras Ostannivskyi on Facebook, we will provide a link.
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It’s like a step-by-step guide. If you want to dive into this business, anywhere, not just in the Carpathians, these are the points without which this product won't be what it should be.
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Exactly. Yes. Look, imagine you are talking to yourself now, to that guy who just, just, just left for England.
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What would you wish for yourself back then? You are looking directly at yourself. Look, first, I would believe in myself a little more and look for those ghosts within myself, rather than seeking some external validation. Because, as one
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famous character said:" Don't be modest , everyone is looking at you anyway, " and that’s a life truth. And second, I would delegate more and believe in people even more. I really believe in people, because it never stays at the
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same level. They can feel it; you either believe in them and they grow, even with mistakes, or you don't and they see that you don't believe in them . And then there’s no point in working with such a person further, and
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so on. And I wouldn't change anything else. I really enjoy this progress. I am a happy person, because I go to a place where I can breathe great air, where they give me breakfast, lunch, and dinner. And I don't think about it,
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thank God. where I usually see people who say," Hey, by the way, I have this story, I don't dare to judge how correct it is, but I get such a kick out of being a co-owner or managing partner, because it's easier for me to
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observe the guests, uh, the guests who are resting, because they interact with each other, look around, and you see what to highlight, what to remove, so that... " Yeah, nothing has changed. I still don't have my own room. They give me
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whatever room happens to be free. And that's also great, because every time you end up in a different room and you see that something here isn't right, or that's not quite it. Right? It’s harder now, because I am realizing one
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of my dreams: to learn to play the piano. And they drag it out every time I arrive, a piano, well, not an electric one. Yes.
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A thrill. What are you aiming for? I don't have any ambitious plans. Like, a chain of 100 hotels and so on and so forth. Because in my subjective view, life is very short. And I want to find that balance, where it’s enough,
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because, uh, in what I had, there is some kind of limit after which there is no happiness. Well, meaning there are way too many obligations. I'm still very far from that, but I have no goal to go there. It's just stable growth
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and projects that will give me, uh, you know, that moment when it just clicks and that's it, you can't sleep anymore.
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Such things, those people who have those projects, often someone reaches out there," Give me your assessment. " That, that really gives you a buzz. And , well, of course, my goal, you know, which I voiced and voiced only to make
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it happen, you know, when you've already decided, is to take a backpack one day and go around the world with nothing, without a return ticket. Not just simply, but rather without having obligations and without having a return date. Uh, I don't know how realistic it
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is, but I'm heading towards it. May everything work out. Thank you, my friend. Thank you.
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Thank you for being with us. Today was an old truth about an old truth, because everything you heard today, I've heard many times, as Teres and I have known each other for years. And this is not some staged story for a
Speaker A
podcast. Teres didn't have any questions beforehand, there were only answers, because his answers are here in his heart. So come to this cool place. Thank you for being with us. And see you soon. Thank you. Thank you, Sasha.
Topics:Taras TustanivskyiStara Pravdahotel brandhospitalityUkraine tourismhotel businessguest experienceentrepreneurshipski resort investmentbusiness growth
