Are People Getting Sick From AI Data Centers? — Transcript

Are AI data centers a risk to our health? This is a question almost no one is asking, even as governments and corporations race to build thousands of these facilities around the world. Now, the public has been told that AI requires more computing power, more electricity, more infrastructure. What the public has not been told is what are the risks to humans, especially those of us who need to live by them. Have the necessary studies been conducted? Have the findings been released? Are we able to, in fact, give informed consent? Well, Theodora Skarato is the director of wireless and EMF programs at the Environmental Health Sciences and has begun to warn the public about this. We are remiss if we don't listen to what she has to say. So, thank you so much for coming to tell us this story.

requires more computing power, more electricity, more infrastructure. What the public has not been told is what are the risks to humans especially those of us who need to live by them. Uh have the necessary studies been conducted? Have

Thank you so much for having me. So, why don't we start at the beginning because the last time I spoke to you, we were talking about the risks of cell phone radiation, wireless technology in the house. You pointed out how the government has had copious data about the risks and has suppressed it. So, is this a similar story? Can you tell us what we mean? Let's start there by AI data centers and what we know and what we don't know.

she has to say. So, thank you so much for coming to tell us this story.

Yeah, this is a huge but actually easy when you look at what's going on. We have these massive hyperscale data centers which are acres and acres consuming tons of water, millions of gallons of water. There's air pollution from the diesel generators. There's EMF exposure from the facilities themselves as well as these corridors. So when we talk about AI data centers, we're talking about these massive buildings as well as all of these lines of power lines that are going to and from them. There's 765 KV lines being built to service the data centers and there's the water pollution. There's PA contamination from the components in the data centers and heating of the land just from the facility itself and land being taken by eminent domain. So there's water, air, land pollution. It brings together all of the environmental health issues that I've been working on for years.

government has had copious data about the risks and has suppressed it. So, is this a similar story? Can you tell us what we mean? Let's start there by AI data centers and what we know and what we don't know. Yeah, this is a huge but

Okay. So any one of those components we can discuss because the water pollution and the radio frequency that is put in and around the neighborhood. Which one should we start with? I don't know. You choose.

the facilities themselves as well as these corridors. So when we talk about AI data centers, we're talking about these massive buildings as well as all of these lines of power lines that are going to and from them. There's uh 765

Yeah. Well, I just got off the phone with a group from Maryland and there are groups in Virginia, Minnesota, Texas, all across the country working on the issue of the EMF. So, let's just start with that because it's an issue that has not been given as much sunlight as it needs. Okay. Explain what that is and what we know about the magnitude of it.

land pollution. It brings together all of the environmental health issues that I've been working on for years.

Yeah. So EMFs, electromagnetic fields, are invisible and when you have high voltage power lines, they come off the power lines. They're electric and magnetic fields that come off. EMF is a term you'll hear, magnetic fields is a term you'll hear. There is consistent science showing associations between the EMFs, the nonionizing EMFs from high voltage power lines, and childhood leukemia. There's research that was just published showing increased dementia and Alzheimer's in people living close to high voltage power lines and there's studies showing increased miscarriage. So there is a variety, a broad range of scientific endpoints that have been studied and safety is most definitely not assured but there are no federal safety standards. So we have these limits that industry has brought forward. Like if you hear that there's a power line coming and it's for the data centers, okay, this is all for the data centers to serve them because they are so power hungry, they're voracious. The amount of power they need, people are finding out they get notices that part of their land is going to be taken for the power line or that the power line that's already there is going to have even more lines added to it or more power put out and they're not being told what are the EMF levels. They're not being told how much it's going to increase and they're certainly not being told that this exposure has so much science behind it.

Um yeah. Well, I just got off the phone with a group from Maryland and there are groups in Virginia, Minnesota, Texas, all across the country working on the issue of the EMF. So, let's just start with that because it's an issue that has

You might think that there would be a test case for people who work in these data centers having indicators of poorer health overall. But is it too soon to know something like that?

Yeah. So there so EMFs electromagnetic fields are invisible and when you have high voltage power lines they come off the power lines they're electric and magnetic fields that come off emf is a term you'll hear magnetic fields is a

I would think so because first of all, there are not many people that work in data centers. They have a skeleton crew. So you might hear, oh, because wait, that would indicate that they would know there's a risk. Well, it's because once everything's built in a data center, which can take years, there's not many people working in the data center like you would in a factory, say, where you have so many people. Now there so the other kind of EMF I should mention because you're talking about the facility itself, the engineers would call it harmonics or interference. It's when the clean wave, the wave of electrical power that's coming through on your lines, is basically contaminated with other frequencies that may cause erratic spikes. So, a term that's often used is dirty electricity, harmonics, or interference because it's really interference. So, dirty electricity, interference, harmonics has been found to degrade power quality. And there was a Bloomberg report with over 770,000 sensors that they put in people's homes to measure the power quality. And they found that if you were within 20 miles, okay, 20 miles of data center clusters, they had degraded power quality. Now, the thing that wasn't talked about there is that this degraded power quality, these harmonics can have human health effects as well because it's causing these spikes of frequencies to be in your home.

and there's studies showing increased miscarriage. So there is a variety a broad range of uh scientific endpoints that have been studied and safety is most definitely not assured but there are no federal safety standards. So we have these limits that industry has

So, if I understand this correctly, the data center is causing an interference in your house if you're nearby and that's making your electricity work harder basically to make up for the inefficiency and that can have human health implications.

they need people are finding out they get notices that part of their land is going to be taken for the power line or that the power line that's already there is going to have even more lines added to it or more power put audit

That's wild to think about that you're just walking around while your house is like working to make up an inefficiency.

You might think that there would be a test case for people who work in these data centers having indicators of poorer health overall. But is it too soon to know something like that?

Do I understand that properly?

Well it's because they once the once everything's built in a data center which can take years there's not many people working in the data center like you would in a factory say where you have so many people. Now there so the

Well, it's not the inefficiency as much as it's erratic power. It's causing spikes in voltage changes on the electrical system. So, it's not, they call it clean power or power quality is the word that the engineers use. And that then it comes off of the lines just like a power line can have magnetic fields coming off with dirty electricity, those frequencies. So you can actually with a meter measure what those frequencies that are in the air from that contamination of your electrical power.

with other frequencies that make cause erratic spikes. So, a term that's often used is dirty electricity, harmonics, or um interference because it's really interference. So, dirty electricity, interference, harmonics has been found to degrade power quality. And there was

And what do we know about the indications of human health from dirty electricity?

quality. Now, the thing that wasn't talked about there is that this degraded power quality, these harmonics can have human health effects as well because it's it's causing these spikes of frequencies to be in your home.

Yeah, there are several studies on it that have found impacts to people's health from dirty electricity, but I think it's important to step back to the overall issue of nonionizing EMF because what industry will say is, oh, it's nonionizing, it's perfectly safe. And then with dirty electricity they say there's not enough studies even though there are studies. But there are so many studies on nonionizing radiation to show increased cancer impacts to reproductive health and headaches and all kinds of oxidative stress which can contribute to all kinds of other health issues. So it's actually an area that really needs to be really looked at. Now, the companies want to fix it because when you have degraded power quality, as the Bloomberg report showed, that actually affects your appliances, it can spark fires. It means that the electronics you have won't even live as long because they are being affected by the degraded power quality. So, what would they do to fix it? What would be an acceptable fix? There are kinds of filters and all kinds of engineering strategies to mitigate it and also to stop it from happening in the first place. But even if they address that, which they have not addressed, there are these

That's wild to think about that you're just walking around while your house is like working to make up an inefficiency.

Do I understand that properly? Well, it's not the inefficiency as much as it's erratic power. It's causing um spikes in voltage changes on the electrical system. So, it's not they call it clean power or power quality is the word that the engineers use. And

that that then it comes off of the lines just like a power line can have magnetic fields coming off with dirty electricity those frequencies. So you can actually with a meter you can measure um what those frequencies that are in the air

from that contamination of your electrical power. And what do we know about the indications of human health on from dirty electricity? Yeah, there there are several studies on it that have found impacts to people's health from dirty electricity, but I think it's important

to step back to the overall issue of nonionizing EMF because what industry will say is, oh, it's it's nonionizing. It's perfectly safe. And then with dirty electricity they say there's not enough studies even though there are studies but there are so many

studies on nonionizing radiation to show increased cancer impacts to reproductive health and headaches and all kinds of um oxidative stress which can contribute to all kinds of other health issues. So it's actually an area that really needs to be really looked at. Now, the

companies want to fix it because because when you have degraded power quality, as the Bloomberg report showed, that actually affects your appliances, it can spark fires. It means that the the the electronics you have won't even live as

long because they are being affected by the degraded power quality. So, what would they do to fix it? What would be an acceptable fix? there are kinds of filters and all kinds of um engineering of strategies to mitigate it and also to

stop it from happening in the first place. But even if they address that, which they have not addressed, there are these massive 765 KV lines that are being that are bringing the power to these massive data centers and

those are cutting across uh hundreds of miles in states all across the country and then that creates an EMF exposure for people living on the line. We want to take a little break from this episode to tell you about American Financing

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One more time, that's americanfancing.net redacted. Okay. So, they could in essence block in the data center itself, but the power lines bringing the power to the data centers will still be exposing local populations. That's what you're saying.

Yeah, there are really So, I talk about three kinds of EMF from data centers.

There's the the power line, the magnetic fields, and the electric fields from the power to serve it. There's the dirty electricity and the harmonics from the facilities themselves because of the computers and electronics.

And then the third thing is that when they get these corridors up, meaning these new electrical lines that are going to be running all across the country, then they can pop wireless antennas, cell antennas on them. Like you'll often see power lines, those big

towers, and then there's cell antennas right on the top. And that's going right near people's homes and schools.

So it's a three three types of EMF from data centers that need to be considered.

Okay. And you say there are no federal safety safety standards. And usually when you hear that we find out years later I was studying this week federal government's response to DDT.

you know, they used to send it in canisters on US service members in the army and just spray each other, spray down the tents. You know, they said they were trying to kill off malaria, mosquitoes. Um, but really, you know,

it's a cancer-causing agent and they suppressed information that they had all along. So, my sense tells me there is something that we are not being told.

They must know. Do you know anything about that? they've known for decades. So, the industry has their scientists that do their studies that more often show no effect. And Dr. David Carpenter did a published a paper analyzing the research

looking at studies that were funded by the industry and studies that were independently funded or government funded and found the majority showed associations with childhood leukemia as well as other kinds of cancer. So there's also breast cancer and um brain

tumors that have been documented in terms of cancer. But the industry scientists will say when asked about it, well, it's not proven that it's causes the cancer.

That's their line over and over and over again. But surely they have correlation that would spark curiosity and that we would want to know about. And so because they're saying, well, I mean, you can just try not to prove causation and just

say, well, it's just correlation. There you go. We'll walk away. Right? Is that does that seem to be the attitude?

Well, what industry will say in hearings, for example, is they'll say it's not proven. That's their line. But I would I would offer that the question that should be asked is well, okay, we don't have federal safety standards

because the EPA was defunded in the 90s from setting safety standards. In fact, there was an EPA report just like with the RF issue, EPA reports that were drafted and reddrafted and then shelved about this issue. just a complete

um suppression of the the the the issue as well as a defunding like uh altogether. So that then what companies can say is look there's no limits. The EPA doesn't say it's not safe our limits. So, just to give you an

example of how skewed everything is, industry's limits allow I'm going to put a number out. 9,200 9,100 millig. The le e has a limit of 9,100 milligals. That's a measure for the EMF off the lines whereas the childhood leukemia is at 3

to four milligals in studies consistently. So you have these two this discrepancy and that is because the ILE E limit is only for nerve stimulation for like being zapped for uh nerve contraction from a very high intensity short-term exposure and that's where we

are and they'll say oh don't worry this the level is so low compared to the 9,100. Well, yes, it's much lower, but that's cuz your limit is based on a short-term intense exposure only protecting against effects from that.

That's where we are. So, it seems so you see now we see these stories through our social feeds of communities pushing back on AI data centers and then se some of them are celebrating a win. Okay, it's not going

to be in our town. But I guess what we're not accounting for is it still can run through your town to another place.

So tell me about these efforts and whether or not uh they may be slightly misguided or missing something.

You mean the efforts to to prevent data centers in certain towns? I've seen it. You know, this town successfully shuts down permits for AI data center. I know a lot of politicians, particularly in Florida, are against AI data centers in local

communities. So, you know, do you sort of win by losing because even if it's not in your town, you might have uh the infrastructure running through your town?

It's a it's a both and. So all the towns and communities, they're working on getting moratoriums on data centers, having regulations for data centers, and the same needs to happen for these high voltage power lines. And it's all coming

together. So communities are talking about and it's a national conversation that's happening. We don't want the transmit. We don't want this massive high power voltage transmission line.

And we don't want data centers either because there aren't there aren't the guard rails and just basic safety uh regulations in place so that we can ensure that the people are safe because it's not just the EMF like we talked

about at the beginning. We have air pollution, water pollution, contamination and land. Land being, you know, once it's industrialized, how do you even clean that up? It's and it's impervious, right? We're we're putting it's like putting this concrete jungle

putting concrete on everything. So in your opinion I want to talk about the water next but let's just talk about the idea that data centers are going to continue to be built for various reasons and the way our societyy's going. I is

there a safer way to do this? Yeah, I think that's where the conversation needs to be is how do we do this safely? So the first thing is that you know when we're like using AI to look up a recipe or to help us write

something or whatever we're little thing that we're doing that's not what this is for. So the data center buildout is not for our personal consumer AI use. So when industry says but you want it and we want to give it to you that it's not

helping us. It's taking away from us our land, our property value, our health. It's majority for enterprise use for companies which in a lot of cases are actually taking our data, you know, getting their the information and then

um going through it to be able to sell us more products. It's really in service to those who already have billions of dollars. So I just want to start with that which is the real question is like what are we doing you know how do we

roll out technology ethically right let's start with that because and also if if Musk is going to put data centers in space maybe you know there are issues with space for all there's a lot of issues with that but maybe this

technology that they're building right now is going to be old by the time it's it goes live and then here's what we've done to this land and then everything, you know, so we need to just take a pause and do it right. That's how I see

this whole situation. Well, you make a great point. It's like the way that they sell us environmentalism is really it's you because you didn't unplug your charger or it's you because you have a plastic water bottle while you're on a road trip.

it it's really never individual humans. It's always mass corporations, mass government. You know, we see these this is really going to enable mass surveillance uh you know on behalf of the government. So I appreciate that you're sort of relieving us of the

responsibility you're using AI to balance your checkbook, right? That's not what this is. It's not right. Okay. So you make a great point about that. Um recently there was some viral memes about Jeff Bezos saying that AI data centers will be prioritized for

water use. That you know may or may not have been taken out of context but what he is saying is that the AI data centers will require quite a lot of water continued to do so and that we need to

think about how we rank that in terms of our social needs. So what what is the water consumption? And then I had not thought about the runoff and how that can be toxic and run into our water streams. Can you explain that?

Well, they use millions of gallons of water, like astronomical amounts of water to cool the servers. So the data centers have all of these computers.

It's like just thousands of computers in a room and they get hot, right? Your computer gets hot. You have that little fan. My husband's fan is always running making all this noise from his computer.

So imagine a whole room of them. And the big issue is to keep the temperature right or else you'll actually melt the plastics and the the electronics won't work. So they use water for cooling. Um not all of them do and I want to talk

about the ones that don't because they then end up using PAS material. So well there is right now we need to figure out how to cool these servers without harming and you know polluting waterways and they take the water and then it gets

heated up to cool down the servers and then they discharge it back into the waterways and sometimes often it's evaporated. That means that whatever was in the water, let's forget that the for a minute that there's contaminants added

because there are biocides and contaminants added when this water is used by the company. But even if it weren't, if you already have some contamination, it becomes concentrated.

And there was a case in Oregon with an Amazon data center. They agreed to a $20.5 million class action settlement because of allegations that the wastewater that was being brought back from the data center was um had a lot of

nitrates in it contaminating the local wells. And there were health issues like uh miscarriages, kidney failures, and cancers that were being reported around that facility from the water uh contamination because of the way the water was used. And that's just one way

that water is impacted because they talk another way is that when the water goes in it's running through um how you could call it pipes or a system that and then they discharge it back and that's waste water. or they have blowdown and then

that has contaminants in it from the system and the question that I have is well where's the documentation like are we checking is it measuring where's the research on how much is coming out and can you do it better I mean none of that

is we're new to this technology so we don't even have all that information and that's kind of unacceptable at this point like it should be that we know it's clean. If you're going to use the water, it's got to be clean. And you

can't be taking the water, drying up water in communities, which is what's happening actually.

Well, actually, you can uh because water is not regulated in the United States. You can put a well wherever you want.

And I mean, there's a whole um there's a great book called Unquenchable about the United States and the the regulation of water and we don't do it well. And so the and the government has always prioritized big business, you know, for

their water usage over consumer usage. And so have we seen any examples of this where AI data centers are put are capped or the government has prioritized in certain locations water use.

I'll delve to I'll tell you what I have seen which is where the companies go in with their permitting and say they're going to use this much water and then they change it through the process to use more water. So I think there needs

to be certainly in our county in Montgomery County we just put a six-month pause moratorum on data centers to get some regulations or some kind of guard rails in place of permitting process that has transparency and oversight and so forth. And I think

something that needs to be on there is which most of the community agrees I think is the issue of water.

Just no having transparency and then having caps on it. I mean what it's it's outrageous that this could be allowed without proper like just transparency. Just how much are you going to use?

Yes. and and h and you know what's going to happen when it goes back cuz it when you put warm water even they say oh don't worry it's just going to be a little bit warm actually sometimes they'll cool it a little bit but it's

never the same temperature so even if it were perfectly clean water that went back if it's warmer that impacts the water the streams the lakes the the PTOAC river here we're trying to protect the river that has we can't be warming

up the river that has so many impacts to biodiversity, right? So, no one's asking them how much are you going to leave for the community and what do you then put into the community that can be a concern. It's

just not a com. So, you know this Jeff Bezos quote, I don't know if you saw the I did see it the the halaloo about it. He actually is raising a concern that we need to figure out how to allocate. It's it's an

appropriate conversation. I don't think he said we need to prioritize the data centers. I think he said we need to be concerned about the allocation. Um do what do you think?

I think it needs to be a conversation. I mean we need to start talking about where the wa who's using the water, what are they using it for? Is it benefiting the people? And what what do we who what

are the priorities? Mhm. Because who's being served, right? And another concern though is that if they don't do the water, data centers do explode. They do have fires.

This does happen. And you know, there are technologies to sort of search for any volatilities in a data center, but it's not a zero happen stance. It does happen and they do explode in certain. So that's another concern is is you know the outright

safety of that, right? Yeah. The fire the fire risk but the issue of the cooling for the servers.

They have some kinds of chemical cooling that they that they're developing really aware of the need not to be taking all the water you know water.

However those several of those systems not all contain florines. So those are components of forever chemicals, PAS.

Yeah. And that's not acceptable either. I mean, but there are ways well taking a step back, there are ways to mitigate a lot of these issues with the right technology and engineering.

And I am not going to be I am not an expert in how to do that. So, I'm that's not my expertise, but I know that it can be done if engineers and there's enough support and resources to to make it

happen in ways that can be more environmentally sustainable, you know, just just safer for people and for animals. But it's not the priority unless the community makes sure that it is. It's got to be that the people say, "This is what we the

counties say this is what we want, right? I mean, it's not a zero- sum game where you say no a no AI data centers across the board. You're saying innovate the safety first instead and why are the florines how is that is that run off in

the water? You use the fluoride florines in the water or how is that used? Well, the the they use this um cooling chemicals which have florines in them.

So, one of the issues with data centers is that it is contributing to POS material manufacturing be it in the semiconductors or in the materials that they use directly in the like the chemical cooling without caps on that. You know, some

states have caps or for certain materials, but there really needs to be just a broad look at the whole thing and how do we do this without creating more forever chemicals because it might not happen that where the data center is is

where the waste from the from any industry goes. It might go somewhere else, right? To another country, to another state, but it's going to go somewhere.

Well, you make a good point. if you read the book uh is it red cobalt um that was a expose of cobalt mines in the in the Congo and so that is an a component of a lot of LED batteries um

or you know uh EV batteries in it's in most laptops and cell phones and things like that and the the pollution of these areas you know happens in a concentrated manner so if we're demanding more of that we are an unwilling participant in

you know in polluting other places that we don't ever have to see. So yeah is there is there an industry effort to reduce dependency on these things because you know you can't just happily walk around with your cell phone and

then know oh sometimes you know young kids in the Congo get buried in mines mining this with their hands. That's fine. It's clearly not mine, right? I know. And and the little children climbing in mines and the dust

and it just cobalt and all the the minerals, you know, they say in our electronics is the whole all the earth's minerals are in one phone or one device.

But the companies really need to be addressing that in their supply chain. Again, it's about we the consumers can push the companies to do the right thing by saying this by elevating the issue. So with be it um

the cobalt or the the minerals as well as e-waste these are issues that are not really addressed as they should be.

There's just so many you'll have contractors and contractors and contractors. The supply chain is so fragmented that it's very the companies will say well we can't we can't do it because we have you know this person all these people all these companies at each

point and we just can't track it and we just have to say no you you need to start tracking it it needs to be tracked we need to know that we're not poisoning other communities when I buy a cell

phone or buy my electronic it right this can be done with awareness and with um really you you know, policy policy makers putting it forward.

Yes. But here's where politics come in because so many of those components are manufactured in Asia.

Asia has a lot of the direct contacts, you know, for these components, cobalt, whatever it might have, whatever it might be. you know, the United States is sort of handsoff because we sanction, you know, these countries. So, we're not

even trying to work alongside them. And there is no regulation specifically of maybe these Chinese-owned mines of cobalt in the Congo. And we don't have any say over that. And we can be upset at our own regulators, but we have no

and it's a different ethos. the Chinese investment is that you know anything that leads to prosperity will ultimately rise all tides rising tides float all boats and that's something that we don't that's not our that's not our values and

so when we have this east versus west manufacturing supply line nothing we do as westerners will make sense will will make any difference as long as it's that way and I hate to I'm asking you to respond to

something that I've just told you is futile But maybe you have a different take on it. I'm sorry to ask the question that way.

I hear I hear the challenge here completely. So I don't think we can take everything on all at once. You know, it's like at the same time that I that I always propose like we need to have a

conversation about the technology as a whole and what we're doing and how do we do this better at every point of the supply chain going from the the minerals to the manufacturing in Asia to um the the usage to the e-waste. But we also

need to look to our communities and how we're being directly impacted because I believe that if we can get local communities, which it's happening, I mean, it's happening all over, to be saying, "Hold on, you've got the air

pollution issue. We know that from Virginia, where studies have shown air pollution hotspots from the data centers. We've got the water issue. um we've got the EMF issue which is rising up all around then we can start to have

um you know holding the companies accountable and and we can't do it all at once but you can start with your community see what's going on are you getting a line are you getting a data center and do you have an ordinance I

mean like what I tell people who ask what they can do the first thing is if the data center company wants to come to your community is there a permitting process for data centers. Most communities don't even have that because

this is all happening so fast. Like in our community, they had a communications. It'd be the same as putting up a cell tower. Well, hypers scale data center is not a cell tower.

So, we need to have a different set of requirements and we need to get that in place. So, I think there's a place to start with this.

Okay. So that's a more optimistic way of thinking about it because I'm like we can't like we can't control the world.

We can't respond to, you know, Chinese supply chains. And in fact, our leaders refuse.

They probably could, you know, work better with China. They refuse to because of the political currency it gives them to stand against China. Um, and you know, I'm not an anti-China person at all. I'm saying our our diplomacy has been utter crap and so we

can't solve these problems. We're refusing to because we'd like to go to war with China.

So you're saying try and keep your eyes on your own paper because in small measure we can at least protect our own communities. What are some of the other efforts you think that we should put our attention to now?

Well, there's the getting an ordinance in your community. So the first step is getting a moratorum be to get the ordinance because if you don't have a moratorum companies can come in put down their applications and then you won't

have recourse when it's built cuz once it's built it's there. Um that's the first thing talking to your officials about this. One of the things that I'm working on is um a briefing on what states have done on the issue of power

line EMF. So only a few states and actually New York and Florida have I don't want to say the best but they have the best uh in the sense of limits and transparency on the EMF issue. So you know this is a nonpartisan

issue. Okay. and getting if your state does not have regulations on how much magnetic fields are about to be emitted and also being informed about it. So if you get a line that's coming in, the folks I talked to in Maryland, they

can't get the company to tell them what the levels of EMF would be with the line that's going to go right on their property. Now, how is that acceptable, right?

Everyone should have access to that. So that so the issue of transparency. So at ehsciences.org at our organization, we're putting together resources on for your elected officials so they know what states are doing what. And my my challenge is um

can you can you do better? Can you at least do what these other what New York and Florida are doing and do it even better?

Right. And so where would you start then? Is city council in your area? Yeah, council, county.

Yeah, start with your local officials. And local officials are they're writing resolutions opposing uh you know going forward without proper safety studies. They're asking what are the EMF levels? There's school boards saying we we oppose this transmission line going for the data centers. It's

not even this data center is not even in our community. Like there is no benefit to our community from these massive lines being put in.

Now my skeptical mind though would say politicians who give lip service to this because I've I've interviewed plenty who say no I'm very much against AI denators in Florida but then are funded by a palunteer or some kind of big business.

So, how do we look out for that? I think we just have to hold people to be accountable and call for reform. You know, it's not being anti-technology.

It's just reform, oversight, accountability. And we're seeing a lot of behind door things that are happening in many different communities. And that's that is the challenge right there. Model service.

Yeah. What do you mean by that? Behind closed doors, um, there are NDAs that are being signed and decisions that are made where the community hasn't been informed about what's going on happening all over.

Yeah. How is there an NDA? I'm kind of like, wait, I How is that even happening?

Like, there shouldn't be NDAs on this issue. Everything should be all aired publicly, right? What do you mean by what kind of NDAs would they sign about with local officials or about research that they have?

Often times it's about the proposals. Oh, okay. Like so that when the community finds out about proposals, what they also find out is that their officials knew about it well in advance.

Uhhuh. Now, now the industry will say and and there is some, you know, they'll say, "Well, we don't want to tell everyone what we're doing all the time because that's part of our, you know, we have to keep our business plans tight

until we're ready to let them go." But what happens is by the time the communities hear about it, their officials have been seeped in what the industry has presented as a need. And then they're challenged, not in all cases, but in

some cases, to help their officials understand why the community is is opposed. And some communities have turned over their councils for put moving forward on the data centers without including them in the conversation.

You know, they're like voting them out, right? That's what's happening. Well, yeah. So then you need to be an informed voter. That's definitely one thing we can do. Interestingly enough, um this cause has been elevated in the public eye because of Aaron Brochovich

uh famously from the Aaron Brochovich movie where she was played by Julia Roberts and because she was not a lawyer but a legal assistant who stood up for the rights of people being poisoned in a California community. So now she has

launched a public reporting platform called the Brochovich data center reporting project with a nationwide map of operational proposed and under construction AI data centers. What do you make of this? I think this is really important. You can people are writing

down they're they're getting the information out about what's happening in their communities and what their concerns are.

And I'm really glad that she's elevating it. Right. So, she's not presenting herself as anti- AI. She's presenting herself as protransparency, uh, you know, so that these communities have informed consent about what's being put in their land resources and water

resources. And so, is that a good um resource? Where else do you think that people can uh, you know, stay informed on this issue?

Yeah, I think that's a great resource. It still has, you know, people. This just, she just opened up that portal where you can submit. So, it doesn't have all the the situations that are happening around the country. We have at

environmental health sciences um a list of resources as well. And I want to go down to them. Um there is it's the environment and energy study institute.

The environment and energy study institute has a series on the environmental impacts of data centers.

The food and water watch and the Sierra Club are doing a lot of work around water and environmental impacts. And of course environmental health sciences, we have a newsletter, an EMF newsletter.

You can sign up with us and there are in any community, whatever state you live in, if you just do a little search, you're going to find a local group working on this. And it's really important to find, you know, find your

neighbors who want to get involved. And I would say start with transparency because that's if we have transparency, then we can start to work this out.

That's that's the first step. One more question I have for you is about the San Francisco 49ers. That is my home team. I am a Niners fan. And the story goes that because their training system, their training center in Santa Clara is so

close to these industrial places with data centers that they get hurt more often and this the data does show that they are very prone to injury. Now, that's not an excuse as a NerS fan. What is the real data about this? Is this

just something that fans use or is there actually something there? Well, the situation is that their practice facility is right next door to a substation. And by the way, also massive power lines both above ground and underground. So there's the substation,

the 49ers playing field, and then a Santa Clara youth soccer field. And they have levels, millig EMF levels that are well above the levels uh associated with childhood leukemia, with miscarriage, with other health effects. And also there's oxidative stress which can

affect your body in all kinds of different ways. I can't say and and I don't know that anyone can is is the cause of the high rate of injuries of the players and also the healing time that it takes because of that

substation. What I can say is that those levels are well above levels that many countries have as their policies around in order to protect the public. So, I went down to I was in San Francisco last month and I have a meter and I went down

there to measure and I was in right in front where the playing field is and I measured those numbers of um from 10 to 50 on the ground to 17 at the soccer where the kids soccer places, their

soccer fields and I was astounded. I mean that those levels are really they're really high um in terms of as a public health you know internationally what other countries are doing in the Netherlands they would buy up land that

had those levels that would not be allowed you wouldn't be able to put your home there or to build anything there because it would be considered because of those levels they would want to have homes further away and there's several

European countries where they call that new situation you can't build on that they have. So, but I have some news.

Okay, I just heard this morning that the 49ers is talking about moving their playing facility because they say they need more room and they say it's not because of the EMF.

I'm not sure I believe that. I actually think the work of um those who are working on it, I was down there. I took video. I've been getting my videos out.

Um, Peter Cowan, who started it with his Substack post, was just down there giving a talk and I I'd like to hope that the the players and the workers are actually taking care of their health and the next step is that the Santa Clara

City protects the kids and addresses the issue on the soccer fields. That's crazy. So yeah, who would as a sports agent want their client to go to the 49ers if there's a higher risk of injury and then like, yeah, you'll go

there, you'll make a million dollars, but you'll have, you know, knee surgery in two years or something like that. And you know what, because I grew up in Fremont, California, where the Teslas are made. It was known that if you

bought a house in nearby Alviso, that it's an industrial wasteland. It has been for decades. and that you have to like sign documents saying it most people don't want to live in Aliso because of this it's you know industrial

contamination uh groundwater pollution from the Silicon Valley it is the hotbed of pollution and now AI data centers so this is not a new issue this is something that people from the Silicon Valley have known for decades we knew

this in the late 80s about Alviso and so it doesn't it's it's a it's something that should not be considered a crazy part of the conversation. Uh, and you hear people saying like, "Oh, that's just for conspiracy theorists." But if

you can measure the EMF, you can see that it's above acceptable levels in several places. Then would it stand to reason that not just cancers, but like why would someone get injured?

Do you think? I mean, I know you're not a doctor, but conjecture. Is it because like weakened muscular function or something like that?

Yeah. Well, I mean, if there's inflammation or your body is not as resilient as it could be, there can be impacts from that. So, there are a lot of ways that electromagnetic radiation affects us at the cellular level. There

are cellular impacts and um it just makes sense not to have your place of work, which is what it is for the players, for the for everyone working with the team, even the security guards that I met down there. area. They're

standing right there at the high levels. That's their job. And um you know, how how does that make sense? It just doesn't have to be that way. It's like, let's just do it where that's not a layer of exposure. And speaking of the

the contamination, there are a lot of studies that have shown synergistic effects. So when you have the combined air pollution plus nonionizing EMF that then you can have tumor promotion or increases in the effects that they study depending on the study. And so it's

really the total your total body burden that you want to think about. And any one thing can be that you know too much in the bucket for your body. We don't always know what that is. We're complex, right? We're our bodies are like an

orchestra with all kinds of things happening. Any one thing can change the whole fabric.

Right? But bringing this back around to Aaron Brochovich, this is a litigation nightmare because if there was proof that they refused to study it or there was proof that there was concerns and they turned away from it and they

continued to have people getting hurt or sick, then we do in fact have the exact situation that the Aaron Brochovich film was about, a company that knew and kept it going and at the, you know, to the demise of human health. And so you can

see that industry would be motivated to solve this especially in latigious California if not by human humanity than by the the big dollar that does not want to be subject to litigation. Right.

Yeah. I mean well let me tell you what happened. So when the when this first came out that there were levels there and Peter Cowan did his Substack post which got millions of views and you know it's covered all over this quote

conspiracy theory and so forth. The company hired did their due diligence hired a company to come and do measurements.

That report has been secret. That's why I went down there. I was like what do you mean it's secret? It was kept secret and they said it's a nothing burger.

It's 400 times the safe zone. said the team G GM um general manager said on news it was covered in Sports Illustrated all around but yet they never shared the report. So that was the so they did they got this report which

obviously just concluded that the levels were lower than the ickner than the industry limits that I talked about that are just for nerve stimulation and you know zapping your body and they never released it. So I there was just a

complete lack of transparency about what happened there. But they might argue that they got levels tested. Um but nobody gets to see that which is unacceptable especially with those soccer fields right there and the people the workers. And the other thing I

should mention is you know there is no limit. There is no limit for workers.

Normally with toxic exposures that are regulated that have effects at certain levels, you have OSHA and NAOSH and you know limits, but there is no EMF program in the United States to characterize the levels like what are they being exposed

to? What is safe for an 8 hour workday? And that's a that's a lot of time for the not just the players but all the other people involved in that facility.

That's their health on the line. Yeah, that's terrifying. Well, thank you for telling us these stories and you know, I think your take on it is a lot more optimistic than mine. So, I appreciate talking to you because it does seem like there are

people making real demands for transparency rather than just throwing their hands up about international diplomacy. So, your way is better than mine. That's why we bring you on. Uh, thank you so much. My guest today has been Theodora Skerato. She's the

director of wireless and EMF program at the Environmental Health Sciences. I hope you'll come back and tell us more as this story develops.

Thank you so much for having me. Thank you so much for watching Redacted. We'd love for you to subscribe to the channel. It's totally free if you want to follow us or subscribe. And if we brought you any value at all, please

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