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Joe Rogan podcast. Check it out. The Joe Rogan Experience. Train by day. Joe Rogan podcast by night. All day.
Joe Rogan and Timothy Alberino discuss the mysterious Kandahar giant story, linking giants to occult and military secrecy in Afghanistan.
Key Takeaways
- The Kandahar giant story is linked to military secrecy and intelligence warnings.
- Giants described are much larger than known tall humans, with unusual physical traits like six fingers and toes.
- The topic of giants is often intertwined with occult and ancient mythology.
- Afghanistan's dangerous environment limits archaeological verification of such claims.
- There is a notable lack of photographic or physical evidence despite multiple eyewitness testimonies.
Summary
- Joe Rogan and Timothy Alberino explore the legend of the Kandahar giant, a purported 8-12 feet tall humanoid found in Afghanistan.
- The story involves a classified military operation where a dead giant with six fingers and toes was transported on a C130 plane.
- The giant was described as solid as a rock, with red hair, and wrapped feet, sparking intrigue and secrecy among military personnel.
- Alberino connects the giant phenomenon to occult themes, suggesting a deeper cover-up beyond just tall humans.
- The discussion touches on historical and biblical giants, including references to the Nephilim and Native American legends.
- Afghanistan's remote and dangerous terrain prevents archaeological study, adding to the mystery surrounding the giant story.
- The podcast also references other investigations into giants worldwide and the challenges of verifying such claims.
- The story highlights military intelligence's reluctance to discuss giants, contrasting with their openness about UFOs.
- Alberino and Rogan emphasize the lack of photographic evidence despite numerous eyewitness accounts and rumors.
- The broader theme questions what governments might be hiding about ancient giants and their possible connection to modern phenomena.
Chapters
- 00:00Introduction and guest greeting
- 07:42Description of the Kandahar giant and military encounter
- 16:09Historical and biblical context of giants
- 25:10Military secrecy and intelligence warnings
- 33:04Archaeological challenges in Afghanistan
- 49:59Broader investigations into giants worldwide
- 62:03Discussion on photographic evidence and hoaxes
- 73:01Conclusion and reflections on the giant phenomenon
Full Transcript — Download SRT & Markdown
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Tim or Tim? Tim is fine. All right. What's up, Tim? What's going on? What's up, Joe?
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Nice to meet you. [laughter] Great to be with you. Uh, I've seen a lot of your content online, but the one that got me the most was absolutely the giant in Afghanistan, the Kandahar giant story. And I don't
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know if you know, but um I had uh Devin Lorat on the podcast, the arm wrestler, and he told a story about how when he was in the Canadian military, he was deployed in Afghanistan. And um one of
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the guys that he was working with over there had to have a conversation with a warlord, with a local warlord, and he said this guy was eight feet tall. He said this guy was [ __ ] huge. And and
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not just tall, but wide. He said it was the biggest man he's ever seen in his life.
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Well, I've heard a lot of things about giants in in Afghanistan. And I find that, you know, I I I talk about a lot of different topics. I talk about a lot of UFO stuff. Um, and I say some things
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that I know are that I know could get me in trouble, but nothing makes me more nervous than talking about giants, specifically the Kandahar giant and and the giants in Kandahar in general.
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Why? You know, mainly because when I talk to people who know things, they're very, very nervous when we get to this topic. And some of them will just flat out will not talk about giants in general, but specifically giants in
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Afghanistan. And some of these guys are high level guys that worked at the Pentagon.
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Um, and they'll talk rather freely with me about UFOs, but as soon as we broach this topic, it's it's like they they warn they literally will warn me, be careful with this topic. What [laughter] What do you make of that?
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Well, I think that uh the topic of giants is intermeshed with the occult. That's my personal theory because nothing else makes sense.
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Who cares if there's 8 foot tall guys, right? Big deal. Well, there's 8 foot tall humans, right?
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There's We were just talking about that young kid that's a basketball player that's 7 foot n right?
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There's a few of them now. I've seen Yeah. So, there's actual giants that are in public, right? They're like play for the NBA and they're out there. You could meet them.
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Mhm. But when I talk when I say giants, I'm talking about 9 to 12 feet tall.
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That's that's 8 to 12 feet tall would would I would I would classify an 8 foot tall person as a giant as well. As long as they don't have gigantism, right?
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That's a completely different thing, right? Gigantism is a disability. This Kandahar giant story is very crazy because um what what's interesting about it is the people that I've talked to that have been in Afghanistan that were deployed in Afghanistan, not just Devon but other
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people, they don't dismiss it. They say we've heard some weird [ __ ] about that place. And the the thing that they always say is you got to realize like Afghanistan is an old country. It's old and it's very remote. Like most of it is
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very mountainous. It's controlled by warlords. And you know, look, there's these what are those? Are they Greek or Roman?
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Those uh structures that are there that were that date Greek they look like Greek temples that date back to Alexander the Great. And archaeologists can't study them. They can't go there because it's too dangerous.
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It's one of the most remote places on the planet specifically because it's so dangerous. You can't just go strolling around Afghanistan. I mean, you probably would it probably would be easier to go to Antarctica than Afghanistan.
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And hilarious. So, the story of the Kandahar giant. Yeah. Let's tell the story. This story has grown into a mythology over the years. Um, years ago, I was working with a gentleman named Steve Quail, and we started a production company called Gen
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6 Productions, and we were making documentary films mainly about giants, mainly on the topic of giants.
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Giants as like referred to in the Bible in ancient history, the Smithsonian giants. That's right. Biblical and historical accounts of giants. So, I was traveling around the world investigating giants.
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And Steve is known for his investigations into giants. And he got a phone call from an elderly an elderly woman who told him, "You need to talk to my son. My son has a story he needs to tell you." And she had to
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convince her son to talk to Steve. and and ultimately he did and he was active duty. He was a C130 pilot, active duty.
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He actually went on coast to coast with Steve. They went on coast to coast together and he related his story, I believe, with George Nory, him, Steve, and George. And then later on, we we flew him into Bzoon, Montana
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to put him in our documentary film that we were making. And he did not he wanted to be filmed in silhouette. he did not want his face out there even though he knew that they're going to be able to
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mark him just by his voice. [snorts] So he flies into Bosezeman. Uh we meet with him. He shows us his credentials.
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He was active duty C130. And then he told us the following story among many other things that he told us.
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He said back in 2005 he was deployed in Afghanistan and Iraq running missions as a C130 cargo pilot.
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And oftent times they would have him fly into Bram airfield. And these were routine missions. And so on one of these missions he's flying into Bram.
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But this time when he landed he was met as soon as he deplaned he was met on the tarmac by some individuals that he describes as the babysitters. He calls them the babysitters. He thinks they were either army intelligence or air
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force intelligence guys. And they didn't tell him. But this was different because when he disembarked, they told him no photos, no mention of this ever. This never happened. So he knew that whatever was about to happen was top secret. And he had flown uh
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classified missions before, usually retrieving Taliban guys, what what he described as highvalued assets. But this was different because these there were intelligence guys on the tarmac waiting for something. And it turns out what they were waiting for was the cargo
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that was being delivered on a forklift to the to the C130. And the pilot says that the first thing that struck him as this cargo is moving toward him and [snorts] his crew was the was the odor. He said it smelled like
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this like musk b and death. And it was extremely pungent. And when the cargo arrived, it was on a an air cargo pallet which is 7 by9. And there was a he could see that there was a person
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on the pallet in the fetal position. And this individual was so large that his hands and his feet and part of his head were were hanging off the pallet.
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and he and his load master and there were some Marines who accompanied the pellet who accompanied this cargo.
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Uh they were actually putting their feet up to this guy's feet, this dead giant's feet and seeing how small their feet were compared to his. Now the giant had red hair. He had six fingers on each hand, six toes on each foot. His feet
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were wrapped in like a crude canvas foot wrapping. and he was solid as a rock. Again, most of his body was covered by a tarp, but the pilot and the guys around him were were hitting him with their fists. And
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he came up to about their their midsection, laying in the fetal position. And he and the pilot told me he was solid as a rock, this guy. And he asked the the Marines, "What happened? Where did this guy come
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from?" and they told him that they had heard that there was a team that was out in Afghanistan that was looking for Taliban or something and they came upon a cave because there was a nearby village and the villagers were were bringing food
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and other artifacts to the mouth of this cave and so they thought that they're aiding and abetting the Taliban. So they went into the cave and rather than encountering the Taliban, what they found was this enormous humanoid who killed them all. And then according
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to these soldiers, they deployed another team to go look f
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soldiers told the pilot that the giant was eating on members of the team who he had who had killed previously.
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But these new guys, they took him down and then they had a a transport helicopter come in and airlift him to Bram.
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Did you ever try to find records of who was there and casualties that were reported, deaths that were reported?
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Um, it's very difficult. The Pentagon actually released a statement some years ago which is bizarre to me. [snorts] You know, basically saying in paraphrasing, the Kandahar giant incident never happened. There was never a giant that was killed in Afghanistan.
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The Pentagon? Yes. It was a represent It was like a spokesman from the Pentagon or something or a release from the Pentagon.
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Is this available online? Yeah. They actually felt the need to debunk this. That's hilarious. Now that that gets me sketchy. Well, uh, I believed the pilot because he was a very credible guy. He didn't want his name out there. He didn't want fame or
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notoriety. He was very nervous. He thought, "There's a good chance that they're going to recognize me by my voice." He was on Coast to Coast AM. And then he's on in our documentary. There's a good chance I'm going to get
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recognized and there's going to be some reprisal. He was nervous. Now, they weighed the giant before they loaded him on the C130 cuz they have to load everything that goes on the C130. the load master weighed him. He weighed
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1,100 lb. And they estimated his his height at 10 to 12 feet tall. And so they loaded him onto the C130 and then they flew him to Qatar.
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And then they they unloaded the cargo in Qatar and the and our pilot told me he heard through the grapevine that the body ended up at Wright Patterson Air Force Base. He said, "I don't know. That's just what I heard.
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So, this is a firsthand account from the C130 pilot who flew the body himself from Bram Airfield to Qatar.
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Why does all the weird [ __ ] go to Wright Patterson? That's a good question. You know, because that's where the weird [ __ ] goes.
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Wright Patterson used to have this the blue room. I don't know if they still have it, but they used to have a room there called the blue room where they had all of the alien artifacts that had been recovered and that they were
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studying. And um it was completely off limits to anybody except for people who had access, the very few who had access. And um but the Kandahar giant, you know, that story, a colleague of mine, Ellie Marculli, he had another guy come to
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him, a different guy. We we interviewed the pilot, Steve and I. LA had another guy come to him that was I can't remember the details. He was a special forces guy. He had firsthand knowledge of the event as well. And we're not sure
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if it's the same one or a different one. if it's were if there was just one incident with the Giants or if there were multiple incidents now years later this would be just a couple of years ago because we published that film I think
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back in 2016 but just a couple of years ago and I I do have to be very careful here I I ran into a a gentleman who was who was uh very high up let's say in the operations happening out there during
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the Iraq war and if and in Afghanist And this individual uh had um he he'd flown a lot of missions and and he was a commander and I asked him, we were having a casual conversation and he starts to walk away
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and I said, "Hey, you were in flying missions in Afghanistan." I said, "Did you have you ever heard about the Kandahar giant?" And his wife was standing next to me and he's sort of walking away. He turns around, the blood
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rushes out of his face, and he literally goes like this to me, points to his phone, and his wife whispers, "He can't talk about that." [laughter] So later on, I was able to [clears throat] we agreed to meet at
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later on and and in a in a very controlled environment. Um and and he related a story to me that's the most wild story I've I've ever heard in my life. And I I'm sorry I can't relate [laughter] it. Um I love this guy. I
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want to protect him. But um it's not the giant of Kandahar. It's the giants of Kandahar. There's more than one. The military has known about it. I then and aside from him, I talked to other soldiers who've also
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um who've also had knowledge of that the specific incident that I cited earlier, but then also in general the giants in Afghanistan.
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And I have a friend of mine who uh I met some years ago. Actually, I was with Lou Alzando uh at LS Bar in Wyoming. And uh there was a a friend of LSE who's now a friend of mine there and
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we were talking about the Kandahar giant. I was just telling him the story I told you and he just couldn't believe it. He thought this is this is nuts.
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This is crazy. And I said, "Okay, do something for me. Next time you're talking to somebody in government or in the military who you think maybe might know something about this, bring it up.
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See what happens." So he called me one day and he said, "Tim, you're not going to believe it." He said, "I was talking to I have to be very careful here, too." He said, "I was talking to a certain
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individual who works for a senator. He's a he's a a staffer. I think I believe he's one of the a chief of staff for the senator or at the very least an adviser.
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And he's got a military background, special forces." And he said, "I was sitting there, we're really good friends." He said, "We're having a casual conversation as we always do.
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And just in the midst of this conversation, I said, "Hey, what what do you know about the Kandahar giant?" And he said his face completely contorted and he was no longer just they were no longer just being happy and laughing. He
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became very stern. And he and he said, "What have you gotten yourself into? What what are you looking into?" He said, 'You need to be really careful.
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And he wouldn't tell him anything else. That's the kind of reaction that that I get and others get whenever we we try and get information on this story.
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It's a very fun story. I don't know why it's so fun, but it's very fun. Um, but the question is, what would be the reason why they would want to keep something like this a secret?
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I don't I don't totally understand it. I don't either. I mean, if there really were a race of giants that survive, let's let's assume that what we're talking about is what's referenced in the Bible, right? Let's let's assume or at least
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the book of Enoch, like the Nephilim, right? If we're talking about giants, like the thing about giants is like Native Americans have stories about red-headed giants. They they talk about the same thing about them having six fingers and six toes. They have these
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same myths. Like how is it that people from the Middle East and people from North America have this same ancient story and what is it what is it in reference to like why why does that it's ubiquitous this I mean the legends
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of giants are universal all over the why hide that that's what I don't understand like the stories about the Smithsonian are always fascinating yeah because the stories are there have been archaeological digs and they have discovered like enormous
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femurss that they thought were like woolly mammoths or something and then they realize like well this is a giant human and they find hair and the hair is red and that they and that they take these bones and they tuck them away somewhere.
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I mean this is always the myth. They tuck them away in the basement of the Smithsonian or somewhere else and for whatever reason the general public is not allowed to know about this. And I don't totally understand what is it
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about giants that they would try to key from us. Like if they find a new species of dinosaur that's extinct, they'll let you know. Fascinating. Amazing. They find um Homo Floresensis or however you say it, the little hobbit people. Yeah.
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Let you know. Look, we found little hobbit people. Pretty cool. Giants for whatever reason, you know, it is a it's a conundrum. And if it's real, it it's you think it's real.
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I giants in general. Yeah. Oh, yeah. 100%. What makes you think it's real? Okay. So, um, let me tell you why I think that this thing's being covered up and then Okay.
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And then I'll tell you why I think it's real and we'll go to Sardinia for that.
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So I like you have been wondering for a long time like what is the big deal and initially people in my field especially people who are coming from a biblical perspective.
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The common answer is well the existence of giants would affirm the biblical narrative right and [snorts] so the secular atheist types don't want the biblical narrative affirmed.
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I that can't be that can't be right because the existence of giants doesn't just affirm the biblical narrative. It affirms the myths and legends of every ancient culture across the globe, right?
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Including the Bible. So, it's not something that's specific exclusive to the text of scripture. So, it would just affirm all these legends in in general.
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So the only thing that makes sense to me at this point and the other line of thinking by the way would be that it would somehow conflict with the theory of evolution by natural selection which I don't really buy into that either
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because they would just say that this branch of humanoids u they descended from gigantoopythecus or something like that. I don't think it would be that difficult of a problem for the theory of evolution by natural selection either. Um, I'm not myself an
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evolutionist, but I don't I don't see them having that difficult of a problem here. So, the only thing left on the table for me is that there's something very sinister going on in regard to the remains of giants. And
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if you study the mythology of giants all over the world, especially in the ancient near east, you will discover that there was in fact a cult of giants that there that there were cultures that venerated giants and that there was a
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very particular belief about giants. And this goes back into the book of Enoch. And the idea is that this race of beings who are not entirely human. They're hybrids that when they die, you can still make contact with their spirits,
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with their souls. They can be summoned. They in fact, these are the demons that these are the in the New Testament of the Bible. These are the demons that possess people. This is the origin of demons, by the way, in Hebrew cosmology.
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So there's this pervasive idea again, especially in the ancient near east, that dead giants can be communicated with and and can possess living human beings. They're spirits. And so you have a cult of giants of the ancient near
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east, especially among the Canaanites. And the Canaanites, they had actually there's uh there's various customs and and and rights related to giants, but one of the specific ones that we know about is called Kispam, the right of Kispam. And
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there's a fantastic book written by my my friends Derek and Sharon Gilbert called Veneration where they detail the right of kispum and this idea of making contact with the spirits of dead giants and the veneration of giants.
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And the right of kispam was it was practiced broadly speaking in in the ancient near east but specifically among the Amorites and other Canaanite clans as well. And and what they would do is they would hold a feast and then they would invite
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the dead to come and join them at the feast. So this was a necroantic right and they would they would evoke the dead and they believed that the dead would come and and and eat with them. Now the
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kings and specifically the Amorite kings, they would invoke the spirits of the mighty ones, the great ones, the giants of old, the rephim. The biblical account names various different clans of giants that inhabited the Levant during and after the conquest by Joshua and the
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and the Hebrews. And you you had the Anakim who descended from the Nephilim. You had the Raphaim, the Zamzumim, the Amime. These are various clans of giants that are specifically named in the Bible. Of course, we get Goliath of Gath. Gath is
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a Philistine city. after Joshua entered the promised land, they drove out and eradicated a lot of these giant clans, but some of them remained. Some of the individuals remained and they were primarily went to the Philistine cities of Gaza, Gath, and Ashdad. And so you
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have Goliath of Gath who David encounters later in the biblical text. So, it's these heroes of old, these these descendants of the Nephilim that the Amorites and the ancient Neareasterners are are attempting to make contact with because they have
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knowledge and they they these are possessing spirits. And so, the right of Kispum that the kings would summon the Raphaim by name and you can find this in the Ugaritic texts. Uh, Ugarit was a an Amorite citystate located on uh on on
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the shore of the Mediterranean in in what is today northern Syria. And they have uncovered documents where the Amorite kings are summoning specifically by name summoning dead giants, the Raphaim. And the idea is to summon them and then to become empowered
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by their spirits, their possessing spirits. Again, this goes back to the tradition of Enoch that the giants when they die, their spirits are in sort of a state of suspended animation and they can be revived. They can be resurrected
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as it were and and can be made to inhabit the bodies of human beings. So, there's this ancient cult that existed in the ancient near east and in other parts of the world and it's associated with the cult of Baal.
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Um, so you have Baal, the the the giants were thought of as the warriors of Baal. So today we know that the cult of Baal persists. I mean the Epstein files. We know that the cult of Baal is still being practiced.
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What when you say the Epstein files, what do you mean? What is the There's references to Baal. And there's there's the there's this recurrent theme of Baal worship.
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and Baal Jesus Jesus refers to Baal as Satan in the New Testament. So, it's basically Satanism.
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It's it's a satanic cult. And and how how is it referenced in the Epstein files?
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There's some there's some references to Baal. I can't remember the exact references, but there's there's a there's apparently a cult of Baal. And the elites are obsessed with some of the elites. I don't know who or how many of
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them, but it's becoming increasingly apparent that there's a a that there's an infatuation with these ancient Neareastern cults, specifically the Canaanitish cults. And so, the reason why I'm going through all of this is because I think it's still
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alive and well today in society. And I believe that they're using the bones, the remains of giants in these practices. I think it's extremely dark.
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I think um this is part of the reason why part of the reason why there may be a cover up around it.
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Um, nothing else makes sense to me. Nothing else makes sense to me in terms of the cover up.
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In terms of the cover up, we were talking about the cover up. It makes sense to me that you have incredibly powerful, wealthy people that don't want to be exposed as being perverts and yeah, whatever the [ __ ] they were up to.
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There's all the weird [ __ ] with beef jerky and pizza. You know, there's these very strange references that seem to not be talking about beef jerky and not It's some kind of code.
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Yeah. And there's also the fact that he brought an enormous amount of sulfuric acid like right after he was indicted to the island like I I forget how many gallons of it but barrels of sulfuric acid which is what you would use to dissolve
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bodies. So it's like it seems like there's a lot of reasons for a cover up. If this guy was running some sort of uh blackmail operation and had information on powerful people, you would that would make sense that that's why they would
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cover it up. Well, that's the cover up the pedophilia or just even if it's not pedophilia, even just adultery or drug use or whatever. The ball [clears throat] thing apparently comes up on a bank file and it may have been
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misinterpreted. It does say B a L.name, but people who are digging into this say that it might have just been a misinterpretation. That's the only mention of it.
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Misinterpretation. Uh yeah, [clears throat] I mean it's another page here shows it. Here's like the document.
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It might have just I don't I it doesn't even say it there that I can see it.
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Yeah. I'm not sure exactly. Here's where it says it, you know, exactly where Baal is referenced specifically. There there for one place for sure.
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Bank document. I don't know if that has anything to do with the occult specifically.
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Just imagine if it's the name of Satan and this is the name of your bank account. [laughter] Yeah.
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Yeah. That's quite odd. Yeah. That's at least creepy. Yeah. For sure. At least creepy.
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Yeah. So, you have this this this scenario in which let's just say for the sake of argument that it's true. Okay.
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Okay. That the legends are true, the giants are real, that you can make contact with their spirits through their bones through maybe through their remains. Um that or at least people believe this.
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And so is there some sort of a method that they use? Yeah. Well, okay. So, this will get us into Sardinia. So, whenever anyone asks me what's the what's the best evidence you've ever seen for the existence of
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giants? Now you've already cited some some his some historical context around this. The legend of giants is everywhere. It's in every continent and you have giants aside from the biblical account obviously all over the Mesopotamia the cult of giants in the
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United States during this the era of the the Smithsonian gate the Smithsonian's apparent the Smithsonian institutions apparent cover up of giants especially the ones that were being discovered in the mountains here in the United States.
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But it's pervasive. In Peru, there's legends of giants. And uh the natives, the indigenous peoples absolutely believe there was a primordial race of giants. The same thing in Central America. They believed there was a primordial race of giants
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that was destroyed in the cataclysm, specifically a flood. That's what the Inca believed that Beakocha, the guy created first a race of giants, but they were they were they were stupid and evil and so he destroyed them in a flood.
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Same same story down in up in Mexico. and among the Aztec and the Native Americans, the six-finger redhaired giants and so forth. So, there's a lot of um historical context and I would and of course it's anecdotal, but it's but
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how much anecdotal evidence just at one point does anecdotal evidence just become evidence when there's when it's so pervasive all over the world, right? So, um, as I was traveling around the world studying giants and researching this topic and investigating different
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stories and legends, um, I went to Malta, which is very interesting. Obviously, lots of legends of giants in Malta associated with the megaliths. And then, and then I kind of hit ground zero for giants, which is the island of Sardinia.
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And the island of Sardinia is located west of of Rome. It's part of Italy.
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It's in the western Mediterranean. below below Corsica. And many people don't realize this about Sardinia, but Sardinia has the highest um has the most megaliths anywhere on Earth. It has the highest concentration of megaliths anywhere that I've been as
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far as I'm aware of. There there are these massive megalithic towers called Nuragi that were constructed allegedly by the uh or conventionally by the uh Nuragi the neurogic civilization bronze age civilization and there are today still at least 7,000
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of these things standing you can go to Sardinia and see 7,000 new ragi towers there at one time 10 to 30,000 of these megalithic towers and some of these towers stood over 100 ft tall.
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Chammy, can we see some pictures of these? I'm trying to figure out [snorts] Yeah. How would he look?
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Nurogi. Sardinia. Nurrai. Nurogi. Three different things. So I don't I guess this is it.
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Is that Yeah, that's what it is. So what is the timeline of this neurogic how do you say it? Neurogic.
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The neurogic civilization. It's the bronze age. Yeah, the bronze age. So, what is that?
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3,300 to 3,300 BC to about 1,200 BC. And that's what this stuff is from.
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And um they say it was they say that these were built in the bronze bronze age. That's the the conventional idea.
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And again, there's 7,000 of them on the island today, but there were up up to I've seen estimates up to 30,000 including at the museum in Sardinia.
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And aside from these towers, they also have these are, by the way, these are megalithic. So these are these are megalithic towers that are constructed in the cyclopian style. And cyclopian masonry, cyclopian architecture is the trademark of megaliths worldwide. And
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cyclopian this is the this is the the archaeological term for the technique. cyclopian referencing the great cyclopes of of Greek mythology who were believed to be the inventors of tower building and you know the builders the offspring of the gods who were the great builders
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and masons um that's the that's the mythology but the trademark of cyclopian architecture is that these these are large stones that are fitted together without the use of any binding agent like mortar without any kind of mortar and you have you have
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ex exquisite examples of cyclopian masonry in different parts of the earth like in Peru the walls of Sakaiwaman are are absolutely amazing, breathtakingly um beautiful in regard to their design and the the polygonal um tightly fitting blocks, immense
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blocks of stone. Whereas in Sardinia, these are crude blocks. the crudely uh worked blocks of of bassalt and granite and limestone that are fitted together but without the use of mortar. So they are built in the cyclopian style. Again
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some of them were 100 ft tall and they had a some of them were for defensive purposes and they some of them had a wooden platform that crowned the top and that platform was buttressed by other very large stones that were that were
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finally cut sometimes bassalt. I've I've seen some of these stones in Sardinia and I've been to the island a few times researching the towers and giants and um aside from the towers, these megalithic towers, you also have megalithic tombs which are called to
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this day the tombs of the giants and you can go and visit them. There were um there's 800 of them extent today and archaeologists believe there were many more in the past. Someone knows exactly how many, but often times it
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seems to me that the towers and the tombs are closely associated. They fulfill a function I think that is um that is inter interrelated and the megalithic tombs of the giants, the legends in according to legend in Sardinia,
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uh they were associated with the bodies of giants. But of course today you have armchair archaeologists who say that's just a myth. There's you couldn't even fit bodies inside of these tombs. Yes, you could. I mean, none of these guys
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have ever bothered to go to Sardinia with a with a tape measure. I did. And yes, you can. You can you can fit the bodies of nine 8 n 10 foot tall guys in these tombs without a problem. And
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there's two different styles of megalithic tombs in Sardinia. You have the steelely style which it's um it's there's a large steely stone, a monolithic stone in the front with a little doorway in it. And a doorway is almost like a little doggy door at the
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bottom, but it's big enough. I mean, a a young person could crawl through it. Uh and then you have the triilathon doorway, this style of megalithic tomb, which is a larger doorway. You still have to, like a guy my size would still have to
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bend down to get inside. But the tombs are configured the same. They're shaped the same. These two different styles.
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And what a lot of people misunderstand about the tombs is the tombs were not built to house the bodies of giants.
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They were built on top of the interred giant. So the giant was inhumed beneath the tomb. It was buried beneath the tomb and then the edifice was built on top. So that opening where are you getting this information?
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Oh, this is known in Sardinia. Um I spent a lot of time researching the the the tombs of the giants in Sardinia and talking to various experts. Um and who are these experts like local historians like what some of them? Yeah. One there's there's
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you can go to the um you can also go to the museums in Sardinia and read a lot of this stuff. Um, now the I have a friend named Paula Loy who's uh she's a she's a I think she's the best tour
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guide in Sardinia and she's extremely knowledgeable about all this stuff. She take you to the museum and you walk through all of this information with her and they have little models in the museum of the the tombs of the giants. And
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there's a legend in Sardinia that it's that it's it's called the it's called the right of incubation.
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And this is a necroantic right that was practiced by the Sardinians. And it describes the purpose of the tombs. So the tombs when you walk into the tombs, again, they're megalithic. The walls are megalithic. Some pretty large stones
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incorporated in these tombs. When you walk into the tombs, there's a gallery inside and the the gallery is rather large. You could fit a body vagina in there, but that's beside the point because that's not the purpose of the
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tomb. The purpose of the tomb of the gallery inside the tomb is to uh is for the it's to accommodate a young person during a right of passage.
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And dur in during the bronze age, you're talking about boys from 12 to 14 years old, right? generally speaking. And they would go into the tomb alone and they would be sealed in the tomb. So that little doggy door that's in the stelle,
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the steely version of the tombs of the giants, they would crawl in there and then they would be sealed inside. And there's a little um on most of those steelely tombs, there's a little hole at the top as well. So there's so it's not
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like they're they're sealed in there and they can't breathe or anything. No, they they they would go in there and they would spend some days in the tomb alone.
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This is what it looks like. That's one of the doors with the steely monolithic stone. And they're all shaped the same. It's hard to tell because they've been disassembled. Many of them have been disassembled.
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But you can see they're the triilon. That's a triilon tomb. That's a that's something else. That's a well. Um but the tombs are all sh you can see down there. See right the picture right below that one. There you
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go. See how the tombs are shaped? Yeah. Now, that's how all these tombs are shaped that way. This has to do with the right of incubation. So, the young person would go inside the gallery.
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They'd be sealed inside that young boy, and they would The purpose of this was to incubate inside of the gallery in order to be empowered and energized by the spirit of the mighty one buried beneath the tomb. And again, according
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to legend, the mighty ones were giants. So I don't think it's coincidental that the tombs are actually shaped like a womb. If you look at that the the the view of the tomb from above.
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Originally when I was um researching this in Sardinia I thought it was shaped like a bull's head which would be something like uh the iconographic of Molech or something like that Canaanitish.
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But I I realized that actually this is shaped like a womb. The tomb looks like a womb. If you pull up a womb, you'll see what I mean. It looks it looks like a womb, shaped like a womb. And and this
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was to accommodate the right of incubation. And so these young people, the idea is they're in there, they are communing, incubating in the presence of the dead hero buried beneath and they're absorbing their spirit, their prowess.
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And then the tomb is unsealed and the young person emerges from the womb as it were.
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It's like a new birth. They're now they went in a boy. They're now coming out a man empowered by the spirit of the of their ancestral heroes. So these are these are called to this day the tombs of the giants. Now you can say, well
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that's just that's just mythology. That's just Sardinian legend. The problem is you can interview people or at least you could in times past interview Sardinians all across the island who have themselves dug up the bones of giants or
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encountered the bones of giants in in in some kind of a in some context usually around the towers the Nuragi towers. I interviewed dozens of people in Sardinia, most of them elderly, who had themselves encountered the bo the bones of giants in in different
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contexts while plowing in fields. They they they pull up bones [snorts] or they would find the bones in the tombs or whatever. And it's very easy to dismiss the whole thing as well, they were just digging up megapona, right? The bones of
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mastadons and giant sloths. The problem is some of these bones had jewelry. Some of them had had Roman coins associated with them. Some of them had rings on the fingers and necklaces around the the the neck, the collar and and they would
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actually the the the and the most of these were old-timers because um this doesn't it's not really happening anymore in Sardinia. This is something that was happening in the 60s, 50s, 40s, 30s and and back. But especially between
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like post World War II when the island was undergoing a process of industrialization and they were building new roads and and and digging for foundations and stuff. They were they were digging up the bones of giants. And there's a um there's a particular church
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called Santa Anastasia in Sardinia. Uh and it's in the region of Sada. And I interviewed two gentlemen in in Sardinia. Two guys who were officially employed by the municipality and by the university of Kajetti. Kajetti is the capital city of Sardinia. They were
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specifically employed to excavate the ruins, the neurogic ruins on the premises of the church of Santanastasia.
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Santastasia is a small little Catholic church. But if you go there, you'll see that even today you can see the remains of a neurogic settlement there. There's a there there are Nuragi towers there.
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It's just it's it's an archaeological site. And these two individuals, one of them, his name was Jeppe, the other's name was Roberto. And Jeppe worked there from um he worked there from I believe it was uh 1979 to 1981. And then Roberto
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worked there from 1982 to 1984. Both of these guys employed officially in an official capacity from the municipality of Sada to do this excavation.
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And so they would be their the protocol was you go and you excavate the ruins and all the artifacts you find get put into the church. So all the artifacts went into the church of Santastasia. And you can see this church by the way if
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you pull it up it's called Sant Anastasia in Sardinia. And all the bones were put into the church. All the artifacts were put into the church.
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And among the artifacts that were being collected were the skeletons of giants and not mastadons, not giants.
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Photographs of these things. These guys they well of course not but these guys were uh very reluctant to talk to us. The one guy Roberto was very nervous. He said we were told never to talk about this. This never happened.
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Again this was back in the 80s. He didn't think anything of it. He wasn't told go to Santa Anastasia and and look for the bones of giants. He was just told go excavate the site. He was one of
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the excavators at Santastasia. And the whole thing was being um the whole thing was being supervised by the municipality and the and the university and and he dug up personally.
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He said he dug up the bodies, two bodies, 10 foot tall guys, full skeletons, and he laid them out in the these ones he laid out in the courtyard of the church. And he said he he notified the people in Kajetti of the
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discovery. And what would happen is all the artifacts that would go into the church or in this case outside of the church, somebody would come at night and take them all away. So they get there in the morning, all the artifacts are gone.
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He didn't know where they went. Um the other individual, Jeppe, he also excavated giants from Santastasia.
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various various uh artifacts related to the giants, gigantic plates, gigantic cups and goblets, chalicees. Um they excavated they excavated a lot of different artifacts, rings and and and earrings and necklaces and all kinds of all manner of artifacts. And he told me
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that he remembers a particular case in which he and his wife his wife was helping on this particular day. They're excavating in the ruins and they found a skull that was so large. He said the skulls were three to four times larger
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than ours. He found this skull that was very large and it had part of the vertebrae attached. Some of these remains were not just skeletal. There was like almost like mummified.
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And and he and his wife together carried it into the church. He told me that while they were digging, they they unsealed a compartment inside of one of the towers. There's this large room that was sealed like the
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it was just it had collapsed or whatever it was sealed and they opened it up and they went inside and there was a giant this very large person sitting at a table and and there were there's a really large plate and a oversized
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chalice there and and he even had he was eating oysters and muscles and clams that were still on the plate and he was very large. I mean, these guys are they're when I say large, they're 9 to 12 feet tall. That's how tall these guys
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are. And they were it was remarkable. He was extremely well preserved and because apparently he had been almost like hermetically sealed in this thing. And so they they took all the artifacts and the bones and put them into the church
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and the next day they were all gone. I mean, this was the procedure. It was the these guys uncovered a lot of interesting stuff at those at that that one particular um that one particular excavation at the church of Santastasia in Sard in Sarda
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and he they were filling the church up with so many artifacts that Jeppe told me that he went over to the mayor and he told the mayor is there anywhere else that we can put these bones these artifacts because we're running out of
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space in the church and he was surprised at the mayor's response. The mayor looked at him and said, "Mind your own effing business.
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Put the artifacts in the church and shut your mouth." So, um, these are the kind of stories I would hear all the time in Sardinia. I mean, I could go on and on and on. I talked to one guy that was,
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uh, Sai Vergilio was his name. He was 100 years old. Very, um, very interesting guy. And Sai had, uh, been on a site when he was a young man. He he he told me a couple of stories, but he
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told me that he was he was he was working in a vineyard one time and they were excavating and this they weren't excavating, they were they were tilling the soil to plant a vineyard. And [snorts] as they're tilling the soil,
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they start to dig up bones and they realize these are very large skeletal remains.
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And they were they found like 20 of them and they were laying on top of each other in a crisscross pattern.
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And so as soon as they started to find these bones, the owner of the vineyard said, "Stop. Stop. I have to notify the authorities." So he notifies the authorities and he came back to the workers and said, "You guys have to get
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out of here. The authorities are coming. You have to leave now." And Sai said that everyone left, but he hid in the bushes until everyone had left. And he went back to work in the field because he wanted he said, "I needed the money
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and I wanted to actually get paid for the day's wage." So I went back and I worked and I kept tilling the field and he said all of a sudden well the the owner of the field came back and he said, "What are you doing
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here? I told you to leave." And he said, "I needed the money, so I'm going to keep working." And the guy said, "No, no, I'll pay you double. Just get out of here." And while they're talking, the government guys pull up. And they they
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pull up in some various vans and they come out and they they start taking pictures of all the bones and they they take pictures of the bones of these skele skeletal remains that are laying in these cross configurations and
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then they load them all into the vans and then they went up into the nearby nur. There was a uh a nur there, one of these megalithic towers, and they were inside the new ra looking at something, taking pictures, and so I said that they
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they sealed up like with cement, they sealed up this this um tunnel, this this something inside of it.
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And then they and then they left. And I heard dozens of these kind of stories in Sardinia. Dozens. These people have no reason to lie to me. I mean, these are most of these are old-timers. They we didn't pay them. Um,
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they they you know, they live out in the country. I don't know if you've ever been ever been to Sardinia. It's it's it's it's like going back in time in Italy. These are very simple people that live out in the country, but as I said
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earlier, the bones, these giants are being found with artifacts. Sorry to interrupt, but I'm looking at a story, but they're they're talking about finding skeletons there. They're calling them skeletons. They're calling them giants, but they're referring to statues. And they're
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those are the the giants of Monte Prada. Those are um those different those are statues. Those are giants of Monte Pra.
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I there's I mean there's news articles. Goes back to the 70s. Yeah, those are just statues. Yeah, those are in a museum there.
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But they call them skeletons is the only thing I was saying. So there's like a little No, they're they're they're stone.
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They're in the museum. I know they're about seven feet tall, I think. Um, some people wonder if those are actually uncovered skeletons. I saw another article here where it said like they found two giant skulls, but they're talking about
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the statues. Yeah, those some people wonder if those statues actually represented the, you know, the the anatomical proportions of the giants. I I don't know. I don't know that that's the case, but yeah, that's about all you're going to hear if you go
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through. just seems insane that there's not [snorts] a photo something of all these things or that some wealthy crazy person didn't get a hold of someone and say, "Listen, I'll give you $10 million.
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Get me a hand." You know, I want to put it in a glass case in my house. We know that they've done that with Egyptian stuff. Like a lot of Egyptian artifacts have been pilered.
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Yep. Artifacts from Lot of artifacts from Peru. Yes. Central and South America. Yeah, there's a there's a very robust black market, which is so wild. Like, who are these people that have these things?
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That's a good question. Well, I was told in Sardinia, they told me that in some cases they the the bones were confiscated.
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Um, they were gathered up and thrown into into vehicles and carted away. Um, Sai told me another story where he was digging a foundation for a house. He and he and an associate [snorts] and they they came upon a very large sarcophagus
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and they pried it open and he said there was a body of a very large person inside. And it had a black it was wearing some sort of black fabric. And there were coins uh that that were uh
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that were minted from um Antoninus pious the Roman emperor from that time. And they reported there was a local priest and they told the priest that they found a body, right? Like we found a dead body. What do we do? And so the priest
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came over and he looked down in the pit. He said, "Give me the coins." They gave him the coins. He said, 'Break the bones up and and and distribute them in the foundation of the house. I mean, this
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was, you know, if you went to Sardinia today, I think you you you would think to yourself, okay, yeah, I can see how there's no one's taking pictures or anything over here. This is like going way back in time in Italy, especially
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um especially back in the 40s, 50s, and 60s when most of these things happened.
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Now the the excavations at Santastasia happened in the late '7s, early 80s, but all these other stories are coming from the you know 60s, '50s, 40s. So um I I mean there was just so many people who I
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talked to you know random people would tell me as I interviewed them that oh yeah yeah I was digging in my basement one time and you know years ago and and and I dug up a hand. It was it was a
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hand five fingers and you know it was it was three times the size of my hand. No, that's five fingers.
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Yeah, that's random. That could just be, you know, megapon or something. I don't know how many what a giant sloth hand looks like or whatever. And let me say this, there is no question, none, no question, that a lot of the accounts that you hear
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about giants, not the ones associated with coins and jewelry, but a lot of the accounts that you hear about giants and the skeletons of giants, they do have prosaic explanations. A lot of them do end up being megapana bones, especially
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giant sloths and stuff like that. There was a case in Peru, actually was in Ecuador. This is referenced in the Chronicles of Peru that there's a place called Santa Elena, and it's the p it's a peninsula in in Ecuador.
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And um there's various chronicers who talk about this and these are the chronicers who chronicle the the history of the conquest of Peru. you know, the the Piso and the and the Conquistadors who defeated the Inca and and
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they say that, you know, there was a race of giants that there was giants came the natives told the concistadors and and the chronicers that according to legend, giants came over the sea on large reedboats.
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And these giants were were they were very very large and they had they had red hair and uh some of them were naked and some of them were dressed in in in um very primitive clothing and they landed on the shores of Santena, one of
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the places they landed and they began to terrorize the local population. The the the indigenous people hated them because they were they were eating all of the food. I mean they they they the natives said that they consumed 50 times um the
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the amount of food is as a regular sized person [snorts] and and so the natives hated them. They said that the giants built these deep wells. They dug these really deep wells which you could still see. The concisador said we could still see them
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today. They built these houses with very large blocks and huge beams of wood which were still there when the concisadors were writing about this in the in the 16th and or 17th and 18th centuries.
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And and according to legend, these giants, they were sodomites and they didn't have any women with them [clears throat] and they were basically struck down by God. And um the natives have that and other legends regarding giants being destroyed by God in various
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ways. But it turns out that Santena is it's one of the the most um important sites for megapona bones and there's tons of megapon especially giant sloths.
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So you have lots of megapona bones in Santaena. And I have no doubt that the the the the natives and um the people living during that time um in the aftermath of the conquest of of the Inca Empire thought that those were the
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bones of giants. Right. Because there was no giant sloths alive at that time. Exactly. and and and in some of the accounts you can see where they're saying in the giants and and you know we we uncovered a giant that was had a
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deformed body and I thought oh that's probably a it's probably a giant sloth or something right so yeah there's a lot of that unquestionably and you have to be very careful as a researcher and in the beginning I when I when I I this was
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years ago when I first started out researching this stuff I made the mistake of of of just taking that story literally and believing oh yeah they were digging up bones of giants Santaena until I realized that that is like one
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of the best places in the world to find megapona bones. So obviously you have to concede to the facts of reality. They're digging up megapona there. However, however, there are other stories that come from the chronicles in Peru where there's no
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way they're talking about megapana. And these stories come from the same chronicers who from which we derive from the same text from which we derive the history of the conquest of Peru. The same guys like Bernab Kobo and Antonio de La
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Kalancha and Pedro Sesa DeLeon all of the you know the famous chroniclers. And there's one case in particular I find very intriguing. There's lots of them. By the way, when I was in I was I lived in Peru for 10 years at some point
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and and then later on I went back to Peru and doing various investigations when I was looking into this, making documentaries about giants. And when I was in Peru, I was in Puno some years ago, probably back in 2015, 2016, I was
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in Puno and I met with an archaeologist in Puno. His name was Edmundo de Laa, very well-known archaeologist.
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And um I asked him, "Hey, are there any accounts of giants in the historical records here?" And he said, "Yeah, I think there's a there's a couple accounts of giants." And I said, "Okay." He said, "I I don't
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think there's many, but I think there's a couple." Okay. Well, the next morning, he comes walking into my hotel in the lobby, and he's got a big smile on his face, and he hands me a disc and he said, "I went after we talked, I
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went into the archives." They have access to the digital archives. and I did a word search to try and see if I could find some of these accounts of giants. He said, "I cannot believe how many references to giants there are in
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the Chronicles." And he handed me the disc and I I I opened the files and indeed there were many. Now, some of them were in reference to Santelena.
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But some of them were much more remarkable. For example, I'll give you one example here.
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There was a a Jesuit priest named Pablo Jose Ariaga who was going around Peru and he wrote a book called the exterpation of idolatry in Peru. I think it was 1602 and he's he's going around Peru with the
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what are called which were called the BCadores who were the these were um officials. There were clergymen that were dispatched to Peru who were extrepating idolatry. These were the they were very fair at these people, these BCor, these official um
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idolatry hunters basically because they were brutal. And what they would do is they would go with the priests into the villages. They would find out what are the natives worshiping and then they would destroy it and then force convert
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the popula the population. And they they chronicled everything. They they everything they found because they had to. This was an official assignment, right? So they chronicle everything that they find. This village, they go to this village, they're worshiping this. We we we broke it into
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pieces or we burned it in the fire. And these are official records. And among these records, and this is this comes from, as I said, Pablo Jose Ariaga, but also later on Antonio de la Kalancha, who is a austinian monk. Um it enlarges
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the story. He expands on the story using other documents including uh um including um Kal um um Ariyaga's version and the story goes that Ariyaga and Bicadores they went into the village and they were led they inquired what are
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what are you worshiping where are your gods and the indigenous people of Peru they they worshiped wakas and the waka could be anything it could be an idol it could be a mountain, it could be a hill, it was just wacas. Even to this day,
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they call them wacas. And so they inquired, "Where are your wacas?" And they led them to the other side of the village where there was a large cave.
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And they go into the cave. And when they went in there, they they record that there were many dead Gentiles.
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And among them were two giants dressed in kumbi and they were enshrined. Now that's very interesting. Kumbi.
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Kumbi is a very fine fabric that is um it was it was used exclusively by the Inca nobility. In fact, it was illegal for any anyone else to wear kumbi. Only the Inca nobility could wear kumbi. This very fine fabric.
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So, it's very ceremonial and it belongs by law to the noble class. So, these indigenous people, they can't wear kumbi. But yet they dressed these two uh and and it said that the bodies were were well preserved almost like
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mummified. They dressed these two giants in kumbi and they were enshrined in this tomb.
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And so when they realized that they were worshiping these giants, these dead giants and the natives told them that these were their ancestors, these were their progenitors. That's what they told the the bicadores of idolatry. They took the bodies out of the tomb and they
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burned them in the village. Now, that's very interesting to me because you have two um bodies, not just skeletal remains, bodies of giants decayed with time, but still quite well preserved, dressed in kumbi. This doesn't sound like a giant
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sloth to me. This doesn't sound like a mastadon. This is something else. And it corresponds to all the legends among the natives there in in Peru regarding the existence of giants who were their progenitors.
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So those are just those are some historical details, some historical accounts that I find very intriguing.
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Well, there's so many of them. That's what's weird. And is there's also this very bizarre desire that people have of destroying things from the past. Yeah.
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Uh we find that with uh I mean the Taliban did that. You know, there's there's a bunch of different incredible archaeological sites that were destroyed by past civilizations. We we just talked the other day about um the the Kyasa temple in India about how
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they tried to destroy that for a couple years. They sent a thousand people and they could barely put a dent in it.
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Who was trying to destroy that? Oh, who was it, Jamie? Do we remember? Didn't like it. I don't know [laughter] some some uh [clears throat] warlord or general or something. I I'll find out who they they came upon this temple that
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they they didn't like that someone else had built it and someone else owned it and someone else had constructed it.
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Yeah. You know the [clears throat] Kyasa temple that was built entirely out of stone.
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Yeah. The one that was built like literally carved into the ground into the side of the mountain.
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Yeah. Emperor. Say that name. You could say it. You're really good with words. Mugal was what's his name? Looks like Mughal to me. I've never heard of that.
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What's the second word? Orang. I don't know. Orang. Orang. Historical figure widely reported to have ordered the destruction of the Kyasa temple in 1682. However, his mission failed because the monolithic temple was carved top down from a single
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solid volcanic rock. His army could only disfigure some sculptures before giving up. Oh, this was in 1682. Yeah.
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Yeah. But it's just wild that people have always had this inclination to destroy old fascinating things.
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Yeah, that's right. Especially you find this. What's really sad is in Central America among the Aztec, the Maya, there were many codeexes of the Aztec and the Maya that were intentionally destroyed by by um by the the Catholic Church by
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various agents of the Catholic Church would intentionally destroy these codeexes. Could you imagine the information that was stored in those things? Well, how about the Library of Alexandria?
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Yeah. I mean, who knows what was in there and and they burnt that several times, right?
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It's um there's the historical accounts in North America are are interesting because there's actual newspaper stories from God, was it like I believe it's the 1800s. What do Do you know what I'm talking about?
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Yeah. There are all kinds of newspaper stories about giants in the 1800s. newspaper stories about giant skeletons that have been discovered and excavated.
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Yes. From the mid 1800s to the early 1900s. And somehow or another, they all relate to the Smithsonian.
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Most of them are associated with the mountains and the mound builders. There were thousands of mounds east of the Mississippi. I mean, uh, people don't realize how many of these mounds there were. And these are, you know, the
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monumental mounds and earthwork. Some of them still stand today. Not all of them are burial mounds. You have different kinds of mounds. Some of them are effiges. Some of them are platform mounds, but many of them are burial
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mounds. And many of them contain contain very prosaic things like the bones of native people. But some of them were said to have contained some very very interesting artifacts. And among those artifacts were the bones of giants according to the newspaper reports. Now
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see if you can find there's a lot of them from the 1800s. Yeah. I mean 10 ft high. 1872.
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Yes. Yeah. Especially in the in the latter part of the 1800s. How tall was it, Jimmy?
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I mean, it's just it's a giant over 10 feet high according to Lewis and Richard Collins history history of Kentucky.
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Now, the the contention is, of course, that that these are wildly exaggerated and that the newspapers were engaging in in hyperbole.
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And that's true to some extent. I have no problem with that. I think hoaxes. I've brought this up.
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Some of them were hoaxes. A whole lot of hoaxes out there. Sure. Some of them are hoaxes and they and then you know these are the periodicals of the United States at the time were very competitive.
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What is that photo? Is that [ __ ] That far-left photo? Yeah. Now now that far left one that one was actually that's a disputed one. Um some people believe that that one is in fact um was proven a hoax.
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Other people think there might be a conspiracy that in fact it wasn't a hoax because it was actually on display for a while. Um I don't I don't know. I don't think there's any way to know but um so
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many articles during that time were discussing these astounding dis discoveries of the bones of giants and mountains. In fact, um I don't know if you're aware, but even it it appears that even Abraham Lincoln references this in some lecture notes. He was
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waxing poetically in some lecture notes about Niagara Falls. And he says in those notes, you can still read them today. You can pull them up and read them now.
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He says, "The the eyes of that extinct species of giants whose bones fill the mounds of America have gazed upon Niagara as ours do now." Those are from Lincoln's lecture notes.
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Really? I believe it's 1845, the date of those notes. Oh, I got to read that.
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And now, now here's the contention. Okay, this is interesting because here's the contention. Okay, the contention is that he was talking about mastadons and and um mammoths megapona, right? Um, that's what people say because he does mention Macedon and and
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and the mammoth later on in in the in the lecture in the speech. However, what they won't tell you is before he mentions that, he's talking he's in a biblical context and he's talking about he references uh Jesus and Moses and Adam right before
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he references the giants whose bones are found in the mounds of America. See, so the eyes of that species of extinct giants whose bones filled the mounds of America have gazed upon Niagara as ours do now. Contemporary with the whole race
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of men older than the first man. Niagara as strong and fresh to today as 10,000 years ago. The mammoth and Macedon now so long dead that fragments of their monstrous bones alone testify that they ever lived have gazed upon gazed on
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Niagara in that long long time never still for a single moment never dried never froze never slept never rested that seems like he's talking about mastadons it very well he very well could be talking about the thousands of miles of
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water that they all would have seen well he could be talking about mastadons and mammoth. But look what he references before he gets to the giants. Christ and Moses.
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Where's that? And Adam. He says there's still more. It calls up an indefinite past. When Columbus first sought this continent, when Christ suffered on the cross, when Moses led Israel through the Red Sea, nay, even when Adam was made
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and he's talking in a, you know, right? So here he's invisible. Came from the hand of his maker. And as now Niagara was roaring here, the eyes of that species of extinct giants whose bones filled the mounds of America.
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That's what's weird. Now listen, the bones filled the mounds of America. So here's the question. Did were the mounds of America filled with the bones of Macedons and and giant sloths? And no, no, they weren't. Now, there have been
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some fragments of bones from mammoths and mastadons found in the mountains. That's true. They were they looked to be um ritual pieces that people were buried with that were used for ceremonial purposes or something like that. Maybe some of them were carved ornately, but
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like people weren't digging up the skeletons of giant sloths and mastadons and mammoths in the mounds routinely.
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That was it was very rare, right? But it seems like if you found dead giants in the mounds that it would be more specific, you would talk about it more than just that. I don't know.
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I don't know either. The reference is is is ambiguous. So, we're left to wonder, is he talking about dead giants in the biblical context, which he's clearly in a biblical context before he gets there, or is he talking about
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Macedons? And the issue is that there are giants in the Bible. And also that when he wrote when he pinned this these lecture notes, there were newspaper articles circulating in the United States announcing the discovery of the bones of giants in the
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mountains. Right. So, it's a it's a it's it's up for debate. I don't know the answer.
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There's got to be somebody who works at the Smithsonian that is sick of this.
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Yeah. There's got to be someone. We need that guy. There's got to be some whistleblower that just take your [ __ ] camera phone [laughter] get down there and film something, man.
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It just it seems like if there really are some remnants of some of these things and then the thing that's interesting is you know what is the uh museum that John Reeves has issue with the National American History Museum. I
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think I don't it's I know it's in Manhattan. I don't So my friend John Reeves are you aware of him? He owns the the boneyard in Alaska.
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No. Okay. So, this this area of Ala John's a minor and uh he Museum of Natural History. So, he's a minor and he bought this land in um Alaska and they're doing gold mining and they're blasting into the perafrost
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with hoses and they have found an enormous amount of mammoths. Yeah. um cave bears, animals that weren't even supposed to be living in Alaska at the time. So now they have to like reformulate their idea of what the
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population of this this these lands were at this time, but also a layer of like dark carbon that indicates there there was some sort of an event. All of this is sub 10,000 years ago. So he's finding I mean he has warehouses and this is
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like fully go to the boneyard Instagram please. He he has warehouses of this stuff that he's pulled out of the ground. He won't let anyone take it because the Museum of Natural History has some of this stuff from the previous owners. They have tons
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of it and they would not release it to him even though it's his property.
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So this is I mean he's finding enormous mastadon skeletons. mammoth tusks. I mean, they find tons of them. Tons. I mean, he has warehouses. He built a scientific research facility there, and he's like, "People can come here and
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study it, but I'm not letting any Post Malone was there." Shout out to Post.
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Uh, Mastadon teeth and bones. He actually gave me this. This is a mammoth tooth that they take some of these things and they they carve artwork into him, which to me, very cool.
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The artwork is kind of [ __ ] It's kind of weird that they do that cuz it's But this is a m This is like a petrified mastadon tooth.
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A mer rather. Wow. That is really cool. Yeah. Amazing. Yeah. So this is all from his property.
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So I mean So why why is there such a distribution of uh megapona bones there? His belief is that there was some sort of a mass extinction event that happened whatever year it was, you know, that that coincides with the younger dry
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impact theory. And he and when 11,000 BC Yeah. And when he's had some of these things tested and dated, they do they're they're post they're around this time.
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And he thinks that there was some sort of a mass extinction event and the flooding led them all to be washed away into this one very particular area because it's a a deep concentration of these bones. Too many that seem to have
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died around the same time and all preserved. So it seems like because they're preserved in the perafrost that this is something that happened this enormous event. the bodies are washed down into this one area and because of the landscape because the contours of
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the land they they they're collected into this one area. Yeah. And it's not a big place. I think it's four to six acres that he's pulling most of these things out of. And there's several other places that he's
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now finding things in as well. You know, I find really fascinating are the the specimens that they find of mammoth and mastadon that are frozen solid with chewing food.
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Yeah. With broken legs. sometimes where it's like there's some sort of an impact, some massive shock wave that kills them all instantly.
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Yeah. Instantly freezes them. Yeah. And I think one of the hypotheses that I've heard is that, you know, you had referencing the younger dus impact event. You had a potentially a comet or comets that were ripping through the
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atmosphere at such high rates of speed that they were pulling in the vacuum of space that that sub-zero temperature air and like blasting it down on the earth.
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Yes. And that that air was was was so cold it would instantly freeze whatever was in its path, you know, as these comets are breaking through the atmosphere. I don't know if that's true, but it's it's very difficult to explain how you can how you
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can flash freeze something like that, right? And then in other parts of the earth you have apparent biomass burning.
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So you have you have mastadons over here freezing right solid. You have other megapon over here that were clearly swept up in a flood. You have other megapon and other kinds of extinct plants and stuff that have evidence of
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burning biomass burning. So it's like some sort of um uh absolutely unimaginable cataclysm. Yes. that that struck planet earth at some time circ 11,000 BC and it seems like there's a lot of physical evidence in terms of aridium
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and soil samples and it seems it's very common in space very rare on earth layers of aridium and then the dark carbon layers of burnt material it seems there was incredible fire so we were probably hit by asteroids they also find
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that nuclear glass the same stuff that they found during the Trinity explosion they find little particle of that everywhere. That seems to indicate a a huge impact that happened. And he, you know, this is what Randall Carlson also believes the
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same timeline was what caused the melting of the ice layer over North America and created the Great Lakes.
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Yeah. And caused the massive flooding and the the the land features that you see from space. If you look down from satellite imagery, it clearly looks like there was just immense amounts of water that washed over the land. Mhm. Yeah. And
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yeah, Randall talks a lot about the uh the the the impact of those comets on the ice sheets, the Laurentide ice sheet, for example, 2 miles thick. What happens when you slam a comet into a two-m thick ice sheet,
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right? A comet the size of a city. Yeah. You you superheat it. Then you have all the ejecta coming off of it and and landing in force and igniting the forest. And of course, if you have advanced civilizations at the time,
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which I believe they did, you have a mass extinction event where everything gets annihilated.
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Nothing left. There a few people survive somewhere in the world and it takes thousands of years for them to reinvent civilization, especially the civilizations living on the in the coastal areas on the banks of rivers where a lot of civilizations are,
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right? They're gone, right? I mean, they're gone. They're gone. And not only that, the the level of the ocean rises significantly.
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And that's all documented fact, historically accepted. Everyone, you know geologists archaeologist everyone accepts that that this is something that happened. And then that the ice sheets in North America were a mile, two miles high, 3/4 of the entire
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continent covered with ice. Yeah. recently in terms of like the earth when you're you're going back 11,000 12,000 years ago that's not a long time ago and this whole thing covered in ice and then you also have the almost
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instantaneous extinction of 65% of all North American megapana which is kind of crazy kind of crazy like what caused that yeah which some anthropologists still maintain today that that that that's because the the indigenous people killed them they hunted them into extinction
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it's absolely absurd with adelattles. It's absolutely absurd. Spears and adeladals. I mean, we don't even know if they had bows and arrows yet, right? It's just clearly something catastrophic happened in the in the relatively recent past.
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Yes. And this is, as I said, it's the same with giants. You know, you have this ubiquitous testimony about giants. Well, concurrent with that, you have this ubiquitous testimony about cataclysm.
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Have you seen the work that there's this Italian guy I'll send you the article Jamie. There's this Italian guy that is uh proposing that the um I'll send it to you Jamie that there's uh a way of measuring the erosion uh on the outside
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of the pyramids that he believes indicates they are at least 10,000 years older than we believe so far. I'll send this to you Jamie.
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here. Um, but this is, you know, obviously disputed because they're 10,000 years older, super controversial at least. He's he's talking about the erosion on the granite and that there's by studying erosion and by studying the uh timeline of uh
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erosion and this is something that uh Ben Van Kirkwick has talked about when you look at the older uh nonupdated versions of some of the sites in Egypt where it's clear that there was original stone and then there was stone that was
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built on top of that article that shows some better. Okay, here's so here's the article. So the the heading of the article, please.
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So it says, "Could the Great Pyramid be far older than we thought? A new study says yes." And if you go to it down there, what he's saying is, so this is from January of 2026. Go up a little
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bit. Right there. Make it bigger. A paper released in January 2026, Italian engineer Alberto Donini presents an unconvent unconventional dating approach known as the relative erosion method, which he argues may challenge the long accepted chronology placed in the
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construction of the pyramid of Kufu around 2560 BC. According to Donini's calculations, erosion patterns at the pyramid's base could suggest a construction date tens of thousands of years earlier, potentially as far back as the late Paleolithic period. The claim, if
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substantiated, would have farreaching implications for the history of ancient Egypt and early civilization. Yet, it also raises immediate questions about methodology, assumptions, and how such results could be interpreted within archaeological science. But I don't think archaeology is a science. I I I
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just I think what archaeology is is they're looking at stuff and they're guessing and they're using science and then they're also they have timelines that they establish that they're very reluctant to let go of.
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Yeah. And we've seen this with the dating of Gobecley. We've seen this with the erosion around the the temple of the Sphinx. They're very reluctant while simultaneously disregarding the ubiquitous testimony of our ancient antecedants who say that their ancestors
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were far greater than them. Look at this right here. Other points yield far higher values. Several measurements suggest erosion equivalent to 20,000 to more than 40,000 years of exposure.
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While the arithmetic mean of all 12 points produces a result of approximately 24,900 years before present corresponding to roughly 22,900 BC. I mean, holy [ __ ] if that's accurate.
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Yeah. And then you have also Filipo Bjundi's work where they're looking the radio tomography below the pyramids and they have these structures that go 1.2 kilometers down into the earth.
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Yeah. Did you see my uh I did an interview on um I made an appearance on Pierce Morgan's show and Pierce had on uh Hawi Zawas and I didn't know that I was going to be interacting with Hawi Zawasi
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or sorry Zahiwas Zahi Awas the other way around. I didn't know that uh I was going to be interacting with him. I was just told that they wanted me to come on and talk about pyramids and stuff. But then
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Pier Pierce loves a good scramble. He he loves [laughter] he loves the squabble. So So he set me up like here's your opportunity to say whatever you want.
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You know, it was me and Jimmy Corsetti and some other people. Here's your opportunity to ask Zahi whatever you want. And I'm thinking to myself, I don't I don't really have anything to ask this guy. But then it
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occurred to me, I actually have me and my team are in possession of some state-of-the-art ground penetrating radar technology that we use to great effect in Peru. And so I'm thinking about this discovery, this alleged these alleged uh mega structures under the
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pyramids, and I'm thinking, you know, it wouldn't be that difficult. You don't have to you don't have to detect them all the way down. You just have to verify that there's something there, right? And so I posited this to Zahi
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and, you know, told him, look, I've got this equipment. Would you facilitate us coming down there? and and and it's it's it operates off of a drone platform. So, you don't you don't have to drag it.
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It's it's uh fly you can fly it around the the pyramid. You don't have to touch the pyramid. You can just fly it in the vicinity of the pyramids and see if you can detect something. I mean, there's
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there's no there's you know, you would do no injury to any sort of any artifacts there. [snorts] and he seemed like he was very open to the idea, you know, on camera and said that basically told peers, get your people in contact
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with him so that you know, give him my information so I can reach out to him.
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Of course, that never happened. So, it would not be that difficult to verify that. And that's why I'm wondering why you don't have to dig, right? Why wouldn't you want as much exploration at the most spectacular site Yeah. that human beings have ever
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erected on the face of the earth that has a very controversial timeline. That's right.
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I mean, even the conventional timeline's super controversial because like how the [ __ ] did they do it?
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Mhm. Even if you just accept that it's 2500 BC. Okay, great. How I mean I I mean I don't know why it being older is more controversial cuz it's still the same people, the same it's human beings that lived a long time
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ago. That's all we're talking about. But why are they sticking to 2500 BC? It's because that they've always said that they know. They've always said with great certainty and and from a position of authority that this is what we know.
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We know Kufu did this. We know this guy did this. But you don't really know. And there's also incredible amount of evidence that these guys wrote their name on everything. When they were in power, they like to put their names on
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everything or recarve the head of the Sphinx. Yeah. Well, that's definitely true. Yeah, it's definitely different. There's some controversy about that as well because there's layers of stone that have different gradients like different hardness and they're different types of stone and
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the face there. What the the controversy is that the face is like a harder stone and it wouldn't erode as quickly.
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Problem with that is like the stuff that's eroded for a long period in history was covered in sand.
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Mh. And we know that for a fact. show that there was no erosion going on during that period of time yet it's massively more eroded than the face.
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Well, I think that one of the fundamental problems that we have as wester as modern westerners looking at this stuff is we have an inversion of the timeline of history.
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When we look at the timeline of history, we generally view our antecedants as like cavemen.
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Yes. These are are very ignorant people. They're basically, you know, chimpanzees with with better brains. And as we progress through the timeline of history, we're becoming increasingly more intelligent, increasingly more incap capable of building and and of of
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building these monuments and technology and so forth. So we see ourselves as the pinnacle of the human species. Like we're the smartest, we're the greatest.
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That's not the way that the ancients viewed the anti-dolivian world. That's not the way that they viewed their their antecedants. They see the for them it was the inverse. For them, they were always trying to recover the glory of
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the people that had come before them, the majesty of the civilization that had come before them. Uh so when they look back down the timeline of history, they're the dummies. And the further you go back, the more extraordinary people
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are cuz they were closer to it, right? And they all have a they all have a myth of the flood of the antibian world in general, you know? and they they lived in a timeline that was closer to that
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and more accepted because they probably had a knowledge an understanding at least the earliest ones that they didn't make this and so they probably passed that down.
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Yeah. Well, they I think they inherited traditions from their ancestors about these things. Um you know I mean you have you have [snorts] this this idea of a golden age uh among the ancients. Golden age meaning there was a time on earth. The
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the the Greeks coined that particular phrase the golden age. The Egyptians the ancient Egyptians called it zeppy the first time. There was a time on earth when the gods descended to the earth and cohabited with human species and to some
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extent coingled with the human species and that it was during this time that that knowledge was transferred and that great cities were built. This is of course this is where the the myth of Atlantis falls into this category.
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And and then their world was suddenly and catastrophically destroyed. And what we've been doing since that destruction, in the mind of the agents, what they've been doing since that destruction was attempting to rebuild, to rediscover the lost knowledge from
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that age, to recover it and to try and try and emulate their their superior ancestors. That's what you see everywhere everywhere around the world.
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Doesn't matter if you're in Egypt or if you're in Peru, you see the same sort of thing. Um, same thing applies by the way for the megaliths in Peru. I don't know if you have you been to Peru.
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No. Some of the most astounding megaliths that you'll see anywhere in the world. Um, I referenced earlier the walls of Sakaiwan. Absolutely phenomenal cyclopian architecture. And of course, the construction of those of those walls is attributed to the Inca.
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So if you ask archaeologists in Peru who built Sakaiwaman, who built Machu Picchu, who built Ojantai Tambbo, it's always going to be the same answer. The Inca, the Inca built it. Now the problem is there's no record of the Inca
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building those walls. And if you ask the the the ancient Ketchra people, uh if you ask the actually the Ketra people, the the Ketra people who continue in their ancient traditions, the ones who are there today, and they still wear
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their um their typical uh vestments and and they still speak Ketwa. If you talk to them and you ask them who built the walls of Sakaiwan, specifically Sakaiwan, they'll tell you a race of giants. This goes back to
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those, you know, our progenitors, the giants. The giants built Sakaiwam. But if you go up to um if you go up to Titti Titikaka, Lake Tikaka, and you you ask the imata people who built Tiwanaku, which is on the other side of Lake
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Tittikaka in Bolivia, who built those megalithic edififices? The giants are progenitors. That's what they'll tell you. So, and I don't necessarily think that giants built all this stuff. I don't necessarily think that at all. I just think that there's everyone is
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acknowledging that that something extraordinary happened in the past that that the our anticedants were much more impressive than we've given them credit for. I mean our anti-dolivian anticcedants and that um that in many cases like you said there's no inscriptions on
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megalithic stuff anywhere. You go to Machu Machu Picchu and it's apparent that in Sakaiwama, Machu Picchu, Jante Tambbo and other places in Peru, it's apparent that the Inca certainly built on top. I mean, they took advantage of these megalithic foundations, right?
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Anyone would. I mean, if you're going to build a edifice, you would you would use the superior foundations here, massive stones, and you'd build on top. And you try to you try to emulate that style of building because it's anti-seismic for
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one thing. So in Machu Picchu, it's evident to me and I think anybody who walks walks around that complex you can see and and we have to keep in mind that much of Machu Picchu today is a reconstruction. It's an archaeological
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reconstruction except for the foundations. We have pictures from Hyram Bingum, original pictures in black and white of what Machu Picchu looked like when he discovered it accidentally.
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And what's there? The megalithic foundations are there. That's what's there, the megalithic foundations and and you see and the the Inca built on top of those foundations and that's what a lot of the archaeological reconstruction today reflects. So if you
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walk around in Machu Picchu, I remember I've been there several times filming and doing different things and and I remember one time I was I was with my colleague Anel P. Rambla, we had a we had a a guide with us and um he was an
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older gentleman, very very knowledgeable and um he was one of their official guides in Machu Picchu and we're walking around and he's telling us different things about the Inca and how they did certain things and certainly the Inca
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built a lot up there. There's no question about it. The Inca were impressive. Don't not taking anything away from the Inca. But if you you look at some of the edififices at Machu Picchu, you can see these magnificent
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megalithic foundations, big stones, polygonal, fit together so tightly you couldn't pass a butter knife between the joints. And then you have on top what sometimes people describe as Inca slop on top where it's like they kind of they're kind of trying to match the
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style of below, but it's it's not as precise. It's not as fine. And you can see the clear delineation clear delineation between the megalithic and then what the incor are doing and then also the archaeological reconstruction.
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And I remember asking this guide of ours. [snorts] We I pointed across the courtyard to some this beautiful this exquisite polygonal found foundational wall with just sort of crude inca stuff on top. And I said, "Why are there two
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different styles here? Why do you see this this these large megalithic blocks fit together so precisely and then you have this other style and you know keeping in mind the archaeological reconstruction but there there was there there was enough of the
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site there that they could model what they did based on what the Inca had done and he said because they like the way it looked that was the answer they liked the way it looked and I said you you can't
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really believe that I You're not an idiot, right? They didn't do that because they liked the way it looked. The reason why there's an inferior mode of building on top of those megalith megalithic foundations is because they didn't know how to do that.
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They did the best they could. And they were very good, right? Attempting to adopt the cyclopian style. They were good, the Inca, but the only reason you would do that, the only reason you would put inferior architecture on top of s superior
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foundations is because you don't know how to do that. Yeah. Well, it's also the just the sheer size of these blocks.
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It it just gives you so many questions because it's it's not like you could recreate that with whatever the Inca had. That's what's confusing. In order to move those stones into position and then put them and construct them in a
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way that it appears like they've been melted into place. Yeah. You're you're like how how are you moving them? How are you placing them?
Speaker A
What are you using? You should go to Ojante Tambbo. Okay, so you go to Ojanti Tambbo which is in between Cusco and Machu Picchu. You have to go to Ojante Tomo to get on the train to go up to Machu Picchu. It's the only
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way to get there. And Ojanta Tambbo has some of the most exquisite megalithic architecture on planet Earth. It is so beautiful the way that they were able to and it's it's large megalithic blocks and there's two different styles
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represented there. You have the polygonal like at the walls of Saka Woman in Peru and then you have the interlocking blocks like at Tiwanaku.
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Both of those styles are there and and there's this one spot at at Ojanta Tamo that I love to take people to because you're going up the stairs and and the wall curves. As you're going up the stairs, the wall curves. Now, if you and
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I were building a wall today, even if we were like the best, we were the best masons in the world and we're building a wall for, I don't know, for for some billionaire in his house, we would we
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would interlock the blocks in the corner like everyone does everywhere, right? Or if it's cement, you could take cement because it's cement is pliable and you could make whatever shape you want. But if it's blocks, you're going to
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interlock the blocks into that corner or do something like that. You know what they did at Ojante Tambbo? They they curved the stone into the wall. They curved the stone. So they took the stone.
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There images of that that we can look at. Yeah, you can pull up stones like that.
Speaker A
And and they they cut the stone so that it curved into the corner. Like who would do that? That is so intricate.
Speaker A
That is so difficult. And by what technology? By what technology? But here's the interesting thing. You find that same the same fingerprints of these builders all over the world. You find the same thing in in Egypt. They curved stones.
Speaker A
Some of those stones are curved into the corners and other places where there's megalithic constructions. I mean, these guys there is a there is like a ubiquitous knowledge of masonry in the world. The fingerprint is everywhere.
Speaker A
Everywhere you go. And it's interesting because one of the things I was trying to trying to to to convince this this guide of ours at Machu Picchu this one time of was look, here's a problem. You guys come over to Machu Picchu.
Speaker A
So, here it is. So yeah, that's that's Sakaiwan. Is that what you're talking about though? No, curved stone.
Speaker A
No, I'm talking about a stone that's curved. See that there where it says Inca stonework?
Speaker A
Uh in the middle. Yeah. Yeah. Sakaiwaman. They'll take a a large stone. That one looks like it's curved too in the wall, but that's not a very large stone. Sakai will take a large stone and they'll curve it into the
Speaker A
wall. Um it's I don't see Sakai in any of those. You have to type I'm I'm sorry, not Sakai. Oji Tambbo. Ojantai Tambbo.
Speaker A
How do you spell it? O L A N T. O L L A N T.
Speaker A
A Y. Say again. T A M B O. O L O L L A N T.
Speaker A
Yeah, it's not a Y A N T A Y A Y T A M B O.
Speaker A
Never going to guess that. Whoa. That's [laughter] That's Ojante Tambbo. [sighs] I'm looking for that curved uh What is the nubs? What are the nubs?
Speaker A
I don't know. There's another fingerprint of this. all over the world everywhere. No one really knows. I mean, there's a lot of interesting theories out there, but I think at the end of the day, nobody has any idea what the heck those
Speaker A
nubs are. Those things are so spectacular. Look at that. Look at the wall. Look at the Look at the wall right there at Ojante Tambbo.
Speaker A
Make that look. Look how exquisite that is. That's nuts. I mean, it is just absolutely astonishing.
Speaker A
And the weight. weight of these things and the fact that they're they're carved and placed in a way that would absorb the energy of earthquakes.
Speaker A
Yes, they're anti-seismic. Yeah, they're anti-seismic. That's why they do it that way, which is now I want you technology.
Speaker A
Think about this. Okay, so you are you are with Francisco Pisaro. You're a concistador in the 1533 or 1532 or 1534. I can't remember exactly when he landed. and you're walking through Peru and you you you see this you see this
Speaker A
kind of architecture as you're conquering Peru and you overthrow the Inca and then you go to build which they did they overthrow the Inca the capital city of Cusco they go to build their cathedrals they built lots of cathedrals and
Speaker A
palaces for themselves right so you have the Inca palaces and cathedrals um they took the blocks from Sakaiwaman they took the upper layer blocks and they use them to build their cathedral.
Speaker A
Okay, there's a couple cathedrals downtown Cusco that were built with the blocks from Sakaiwan.
Speaker A
They didn't build it like that. They didn't build their cathedrals like that. They took those blocks and they just put them together with mortar like they do in Europe. So, here's a question that I always ask people who think that, you
Speaker A
know, the Inca were were doing that. If you were an architect at that time, why in the world wouldn't you have forced the Inca to teach you that style so that you could build your cathe? I mean, you would be the greatest
Speaker A
architect in the world, right? Right. You could build you could build the most magnificent cathedrals in the world in the cyclopian style if you understood how they did it. So, if the Inca were the ones who built it, why didn't they
Speaker A
force the Inca to teach them how to build it? Just look at just look at that. That is so crazy.
Speaker A
That's clearly sanded down, right? Well, those are in the process. That's Ojante Tombo. That's the temple of the sun at the summit. I'm just looks the faces of it look so smooth.
Speaker A
That's Ojonti. That's Ojantei Tambbo. And this was in the process of being constructed at the top when it halted.
Speaker A
You can see the blocks there. Those blocks that you were just looking at were something happened.
Speaker A
Yes. Those blocks were in the process of being transported and they were being they were being worked right there. They were being prepped to be incorporated into the walls. Um, and it just halted.
Speaker A
And the conventional explanation is that it halted because the Spanish arrived. That's what halted the work. But, but I think what halted the work was cataclysm.
Speaker A
Personally, I think that's what halted the work. Something like a Younger D's impact. What's that, Jimmy?
Speaker A
Is that See, right here, it looks like the face of the wall, you know, like it looks like it's all uniform and fits together, right? But if that right here is part of Yeah. filler in the backing.
Speaker A
Then that's like Yeah, they have filler in the backing. Some of them facade. Yeah, some of them the blocks are it's just gigantic blocks. Others it's like the facade is exquisite and like what we have here that brick. You
Speaker A
know that brick in the back the background used to just be brick at the other studio.
Speaker A
Uhhuh. Kind of like that. Right. Right. I know what you're saying. Yeah. But except these are enormous.
Speaker A
Sure. Sure. Sure. Sure. Sure. Or I don't know. Yeah. I mean hardened in place and sanded down or Oh, there was a point of the guy standing. There was a picture of the guy standing in the corner. There was a guy
Speaker A
standing in the corner that I was referencing earlier. You just had There it is. Right there.
Speaker A
That guy. No, the one below it. I don't think you can see the corner very well.
Speaker A
That right there. The middle. You see the guy in the blue standing there? Yeah. Yeah. Right there.
Speaker A
Behind him. There's a You can see how the stone below him. It's curved into the corner. That's not a separate stone.
Speaker A
That's It's literally curved into that corner. It's It's just so weird. The nubs are weird.
Speaker A
They are weird. And it's weird that they occur all over the world. And it's like it speaks almost to like is that how they carried them and placed them? Is that a part of the construction? Is that something
Speaker A
about how they made them that they left these nubs? Like what is what are the nubs?
Speaker A
No one has any idea what the nubs are. That seems so weird that we have no answer to a feature that occurs over and over again in all this magic architecture all over the world.
Speaker A
Yeah, they keep showing these three. Those they kind of look like the nubs, but they look way different than Yeah, they're a lot rougher. See those?
Speaker A
See those smaller pieces of stone there in between the large blocks. That's an anti-seismic property. That's a technology that they use so that the rocks can shift and move and the and and not crumble. That's it's ingenious. And like I said, you
Speaker A
have two different styles here. at Ojante Tambbo you have you have the polygonal and then you have the the interlocking rectangular those are two different styles in the same site that's one of the things that makes Ojante Tambbo
Speaker A
fascinating and that rectangular interlocking style comes from Tiwanaku which is another amazing megalithic site in Bolivia what's interesting is when you combine all these sites all over the world and you have all these questions that are very similar like how how did they do
Speaker A
this? Why? Why is this stuff the oldest stuff? Why is this stuff the bottom stuff? Why is the base of it the most spectacular construction? And why does it seem like more primitive stuff is on top of that?
Speaker A
Cuz they like the way it looked, [laughter] right? Yeah. But it's it's the same question over and over again. And the the reluctance to propose that perhaps the oldest stuff is more complicated because the civilization was more complex.
Speaker A
That's it. That's what they're unwilling to they're unwilling to open up that door. But that door is the only door that makes any sense.
Speaker A
Yeah. Not only was the civilization complex, the knowledge was universal. That's a problem. It is a problem.
Speaker A
The knowledge was universal cuz that means you're talking about a seafaring traveling civilization. You're talking about something that's a lot more impressive than cavemen. Right.
Speaker A
Right. So, especially if this guy, this Italian guy is right in terms of his because 20,000 BC, we're we're supposed to be just brutes.
Speaker A
Mhm. Oh, yeah. Caveman skinw wearing Yeah. We're wearing animal skins and we have spears.
Speaker A
You're you're a chimpanzeee with a better brain. Yeah. back then. Yeah. And and and as I said before, you know, you look at that kind of um architecture and you and I were we to encounter the Inca. Go back in time the
Speaker A
in the late 1500s. The Inca are still around. The builders, the the alleged builders of these monuments. I mean, they were building Ojante Tambbo, right?
Speaker A
When you arrived, they quit building. Why did the Spanish architects not incorporate any of that right into their buildings?
Speaker A
Why did they not learn the techniques? That's superior technology. That's anti-seismic. And the point is illustrated because in Cusco they built their cathedrals, right? They they knocked down the the the the palaces of the Inca and they they raised the
Speaker A
cathedrals in uh in Cusco. And guess what happens? You get a big earthquake? The cathedrals crumble to the ground except for their megalithic foundations which remain unmoved. Earthquake comes, cathedrals fall, the walls of Sakaiwaman stand. And it's happened various times
Speaker A
throughout history. Who, what architect would not have taken advantage of that knowledge had it been available to them during the time of the Inca?
Speaker A
Yeah. I mean, like I said, you could build the most magnificent cathedrals on planet Earth and you could make the Inca build it for you. And now you can say that the the Inca refused would have refused to to to pass this knowledge on.
Speaker A
Okay, maybe. I mean, there was a there was a society within the Inca, you know, they were taught by the Grandes Almaltas, they called them, who were the the great teachers of the Inca nobility and the keepers of the secrets and so
Speaker A
forth. They had the Inca didn't even have a written language. They used Kipus. Kipus was a it's a system of ropes and knots of string and knots.
Speaker A
They didn't even have language. So absolutely extraordinary and there is nobody can give me an an adequate explanation as to why such amazing knowledge is just forgotten.
Speaker A
I mean would we forget how to build computers? No. So so why would we just forget how to build megaliths?
Speaker A
Why? That's not something you forget. These things don't fall down in earthquakes. That's something you pass on carefully from one generation to the next. Unless, like our ancient antecedants tell us, there was a cataclysm that rocked the earth and
Speaker A
eliminated the civilizations that were inhabiting the earth. That's to me that that that's the best explanation.
Speaker A
Well, it's certainly the most logical explanation if you weren't attached to a timeline. If you didn't have this timeline that these archaeologists insist upon, then you would say, okay, clearly we know that a cataclysm occurred. Clearly, we know the young
Speaker A
impact theory is accepted. And especially now, so becoming more so over time, more likely much more likely that there was something going on that we don't totally understand tens of thousands of years ago.
Speaker A
Yeah. I mean, I think we would do very well to listen to take serious the myths and legends.
Speaker A
Well, it's also weird that like the Aztecs, like I used to think that the Aztecs created those temples and those pyramids and then I found out fairly recently that they never even claimed to have No, they say they found them and that
Speaker A
these were the birthplace of the gods. Yes. See, that's what I was going to say about uh Machu Picchu. So mach you know what the name of Machu Picchu is not Machu Picchu in Ketwo it's umpu andju means the abode of the gods or the
Speaker A
dwelling of the gods this is how they viewed the megaliths I mean this is how if we were primitive people coming upon these megalithic structures what would we think the gods must have done this the gods lived here and so then we would
Speaker A
rebuild we would reinhabit the habitation of the gods yeah why would you live anywhere else if you could live there right and it would be the nobility architecture you've ever imagined And exactly.
Speaker A
That's right. Why would you let some idiots take it over? He wouldn't give me that. That's mine.
Speaker A
He wouldn't. Yeah, of course. You know, there's also the the weirdness of Peru, like the Nazka lines. Like, what the what the hell is all that about?
Speaker A
I don't know. I don't know. That's a great mystery. There's a lot of weirdness to Peru.
Speaker A
There's a lot of weirdness in Peru. And how about those uh the ancient tapestries that show those three-fingered three-toed big-headed people with big eyes. And it's ubiquitous. And these are a thousand years old.
Speaker A
Yeah. You then you have the Paracus culture with those massive elongated skulls, right? In the in the Procus culture, by the way, you know, people see these elongated skulls online. I I was in I've been in Procus a lot. They've done a lot
Speaker A
of research down there on the Proacus culture and other things. Made some interesting discoveries, by the way, with our drone, with our GPR unit. Um, but you see these images online, you think that the the Paracas people, their
Speaker A
their skulls are so large and elongated, you think they're these must have been big people, right? That's what it looks like. No, the they were tiny. They were really little. They were bizarre.
Speaker A
Their their mor the morphology of their body was different than ours. Um, tiny with big heads. Yes, the Baracas people were very small and they had a proclivity to live in in underground.
Speaker A
They had subterranean dwellings and their eye sockets of some of these elongated skulls. The eye sockets are like 25% larger the orbital socket. So they big eyes, elongated skull, very dimminionative people in some cases living underground. Well, I've heard
Speaker A
people have theories about Neanderthalss that Neanderthalss with larger eye sockets as well might have been able to see at night like the way deer can and y the way, you know, other animals that are nocturnal can see at night that they
Speaker A
have a different kind of eye structure. Obviously, we don't know what the eye structure was, but if you have a significantly larger eye socket, significantly larger eyeball, it seem I mean, we know that nocturnal vision exists in cats and exists in a
Speaker A
bunch of different animals, but the idea of it existing in primates, we've, you know, we kind of dismissed that.
Speaker A
Mhm. Yeah. I mean, a bigger eye gathers more light. Yeah. So, it's a it's it's a nocturnal feature.
Speaker A
Not only that, we have no idea what the soft tissue structure of their eyes was like. No, no. Now granted, for all the skeptics out there, yes, many of the elongated skulls in Peru and other places around the world are the result
Speaker A
of cranial deformation. So yes, they were deforming their skulls with headboarding, cradle headboarding and binding and so forth. Um, there's evidence of that and you can see the evidence when you're there if you know what you're looking for on the skulls,
Speaker A
but I don't believe that that explains all of the elongated skulls. Not just in Peru, other parts of the world, but especially in Peru. There are some examples of elongated skulls that I mean look like a look like a a genetic
Speaker A
um alteration is the best way I can say it. So, there's this there's a and you you can pull this up, Jamie, if you can find it. There's a there's a mummy. I'm trying to think of the name of the of
Speaker A
the um museum where it's housed. There's a I think it's the San Marcos Museum in Lima. There's a mummy, one the first mummy that was discovered by Julio Tejo.
Speaker A
Julio Tejo or one of the first, if not the first. Julio Tejo was the eminent archaeologist that discovered the prais culture and he's like their greatest archaeologist in Peru. was a phenomenal archaeologist and he he discovered all kinds of things about the Procus
Speaker A
culture. Uh, and he dug up this mummy and it is the it is it is the most bizarre mummy I've ever seen in my life.
Speaker A
It has a massive elongated skull. Massive. And we showed a few of those the other day when Cassie Coppersmith was on. We showed a few of these uh ones that don't have the sagittal suture. Yeah, they're they're weird. like the just the
Speaker A
actual structure of the skull is different, but this one has the skin on it except for part of the face is gone, but it's got the skin on it. So, you can actually see what what this skull looked
Speaker A
like with the skin on it. And then the morphology of the body is just weird. I mean, I I think it's in the museum of if I recall, the museum of San Marcos and Lima. Um, so these are
Speaker A
How tall were these things? Oh, they were small. I mean, we're talking four foot tall.
Speaker A
What? These guys were little. Giant heads and four feet tall. Yeah, they were little. Everyone thinks they were big. No, no, no. They were little. Some of them. I mean, I think they were 4 and 1/2 maybe averaged four
Speaker A
to four and 1/2 ft tall somewhere in there. They were very small. Um maybe from four to 5t tall. I don't remember, but they're significantly they're they're very small. They're dimminionative people.
Speaker A
You also tell me which one it is. I don't know. I've never seen one with skin on it.
Speaker A
It's not really popping. That one's nuts. There. The one that uh Brian Forester's looking at right here.
Speaker A
Right there. Yeah. That run right right there is just absolutely bizarre when you look at take a look at the look at how tall that forehead is on that. There's skin on there. Very well preserved. And if you
Speaker A
look around the back, you can't see it here in this image, but if you look around the back side of it, the neck is very bizarre. It's sort of it's a curved.
Speaker A
That is so weird. I mean, imagine coming upon somebody here weird in Austin that has a a skull like that.
Speaker A
There might be a few of them here, right? And that [laughter] I mean that does not look like cranial deformation. That looks like a totally different kind of head.
Speaker A
Looks like a genetic anomaly. Uh it what is that one in the middle? Yeah.
Speaker A
What is that one? Jeez. Yeah. There's all kinds of very interesting specimens like that. And as you said, Peru is a very very strange place.
Speaker A
The one on the far left is the craziest one to me. That one. That one.
Speaker A
It's a Chongo skull. That one was discovered at the the Chongo's necropolis. Like what the hell is that? I mean just the volume of the brain is so much larger than a human being.
Speaker A
That picture might be elongated. You know, someone might have altered that picture. It is very impressive. That one might be elongated. Um the picture I mean right that's more like it.
Speaker A
But the skull the these skulls many of these skulls that's in the Museum of EA and the city of Ein Peru.
Speaker A
That's absolutely insane. These skulls, the the Chungo skull was taken from the Chongo's necropolis. If you go over to the Chongo's necropolis today, which is on the desert, you see these things sticking out of the ground and they got
Speaker A
red hair all burned here. And we were we were over there with our um with our crew and there's a pyramid there, but it's a it's an Adobe pyramid, and it's called the uh the Jungles pyramid. And no, nobody really goes to this area cuz
Speaker A
it's sort of off the beaten path. It's not not wellnown. Um, we were actually working in an area further down the road because at the time we were looking for treasure. We were filming a like a for like a TV show looking for for treasure.
Speaker A
And there was this um there's this pond that has a very interesting UFO story attached to it further up the road. And uh so we were working up there. But every day when we we drive by the the
Speaker A
pyramid, the Trongos pyramid, and it's an adobe pyramid, so it's not super impressive. It's made of large adobe blocks, but it was a large uh urban center. It was some people think it was the capital of the Proacus culture, very
Speaker A
large urban center, and it was a necropolis. There's tons of of remains. and the the elongated skull. Some of these Paracus people, the the nobility for sure, they were buried in in burial bundles and they're in the fetal
Speaker A
position. And these burial bundles are are they're usually layers of fabric and there's various items in there and they're just under the surface of the sand. They're right there and you get a lot of grave robbers, waos, who go in
Speaker A
there and and you know, steal all kinds of artifacts and stuff. But we're driving by. I looked at the pyramid and I thought I had this intuition.
Speaker A
There's there's a there's there's a tunnel under that pyramid. There's there's there's a tunnel system under that period. I don't know why. I just had this intuition. So, we decided to go over there one day and fly our our GPR
Speaker A
drone around the pyramid. And we did a we we we did an extensive run around that pyramid. We did like a cross configuration with the drone to make sure that we get a good reading. And we found two massive artificial tunnels
Speaker A
under the pyramid that intersect a 100 feet below that pyramid. M you could drive a semi-truck through them. And we don't know how far they go, but they go and we actually spent some time trying to find a way into him. We couldn't. We
Speaker A
ran out of time. Um, but it's it's remarkable because Julio Tejo remarks in his writing about the Paracus culture that the Paracas people seem to have a affinity for living under the ground. They had subterranean dwellings. And I've
Speaker A
explored some of these subterranean dwellings out in the out in the Procus Reserve. And what's they're really cool because they you'll see like these these hills.
Speaker A
They look like um they look like long houses that are built that are that are buried in the ground. So you see like this this this elongated hill. And really what it is is it's whale bones.
Speaker A
They use like the vertebrae of a whale. So you got whale bones and then they would pack on top all kinds of they would pack on earth but then they would also add in organic material and it would create like an insulating effect
Speaker A
and heat the interior. But they were subterranean. So what you see are the roofs of the of the dwellings and then they went down into the ground and there were tunnels and there was all kinds of stuff. This is where these weird people
Speaker A
with the elongated skulls were living. Absolutely. Absolutely bizarre. How old are these uh mummies?
Speaker A
I think the Procus culture Oh jeez. It goes back maybe to I don't remember 200 BC or something like that. I can't remember. Maybe not that far back. Um I really don't remember. They're they're that's that can't be accurate. I think it goes back
Speaker A
to definitely to the first century AD. I don't remember off the top of my head.
Speaker A
What happened? Where did those people go? That's that's the question. I mean the the the I think that the prevailing theory is that they became the Nazca people that they didn't go anywhere.
Speaker A
That that essentially the the Nazca people were the Paracas people like they interbred. know that the culture just sort of migrated and and and became the Nazca people.
Speaker A
So what happened to those genetic features that well there are some among the Nazca but not as much as among the Paracas.
Speaker A
Others think that the Paracus they just disappeared like they were either exterminated or there's you know there's multiple theories but there's no question that they were bizarre bizarre and of course and there's physical evidence of this like we're talking about the the mummies
Speaker A
before excuse me the giants before and we you know we're like it's just stories this is actual physical evidence you mean the elongated skulls oh yeah they're everywhere down there now granted as I said before many of them are the result Oh,
Speaker A
many of them are the result of cranial deformation. But what about these [ __ ] I don't know.
Speaker A
They're not all elongated. I mean, yeah. How do you elongate that? You got a balloon in someone's head.
Speaker A
I've seen some really big heart-shaped heads. That is so in Peru. Meeting that guy. I just small compared to some ones I've seen like some of the ones I've seen like look like a heart. Really big.
Speaker A
And um actually that particular skull was was exceptionally large. The one I saw that looked like a heart.
Speaker A
Um yeah. So, just keep in mind cranial deformation is what? It says that these two in the front left row are from the billow bait.
Speaker A
And now I don't know what the hell that means. Billow bait. Yeah, that's what the picture says.
Speaker A
What does that mean? Do you know what that means? No. Yeah. Two scrolls from the front are from the billow bait and italicized.
Speaker A
They are billow bait. I don't know the name. Look at that one on the left in the middle. Those are nuts. That is just Imagine meeting that cat.
Speaker A
And here's the other question. the size of his eyes. Here's the other question, though. Why bind the head, right?
Speaker A
And and this is all over, as you know, all over the world. It's they do it in Africa. They do it all the Native Americans, the flathead tribe up in Montana. They're called the flathead because they would cradle board. They're
Speaker A
young and they get these flat um um they [clears throat] they would have these very distinct skulls. So, um why are these cultures doing they're emulating something?
Speaker A
Yeah. Who or what are they emulating? That's the question. And of course, you have in ancient Egypt, you have, you know, figures with elongated skulls like Nefertiti and her daughters um who are depicted with very pronounced elongated skulls. Now, is that the is
Speaker A
that just the result of cradle head headboarding? Probably. I don't know. But why do that?
Speaker A
Well, the problem is some of these skulls have actual larger volume than a human skull.
Speaker A
That's true. Some of them do. That's that's where it gets really weird. That's true. So if you have 20% 30% even 40% more volume which is like okay 40% more brain is nuts like what does that mean?
Speaker A
There's a slight explanation for what we were just looking up and that also what you what is the something to do with male and female.
Speaker A
So it says blobate that thing you were talking about tubular erect was the most common among both sexes. Boate skulls were observed at a much higher rate in female skulls.
Speaker A
This association with sex has evidence in some paraca ceramics where men and women are depicted with distinctly tubular erect or biobait heads respectively.
Speaker A
And then it even goes into this. So the bio bait is then the the heart-shaped [ __ ] weird bending.
Speaker A
It is weird. It is extremely weird. And then of course you have those, you know, the alleged alien mummies down there.
Speaker A
Yeah. What do you think about those? Because there's a lot of people now that are saying that those are elaborate hoaxes.
Speaker A
I went down to Peru. I was invited to go down there um by uh Dr. Roger Zunya or Professor Roger Zunya to go down and and look at the specimens that they have at the Eco Museum. Uh they have four
Speaker A
specimens at the Eco Museum. The most impressive specimen that they have there is called Maria and Maria's in the fetal position. She's a large one of the larger mummies. Um then they have a few other ones. They have two of the of the
Speaker A
the small ones, the ones that Haime Assan famously un, you know, revealed over there in Mexico during that thing that he did over there, that press thing. And and then you have one that's called Wawita, which seems to be like uh some kind of a
Speaker A
combination of of different things. And um so I went down there to the university and uh walked up to these things and and at first I have to say my first impression of Maria, I didn't really care about the little ones. I
Speaker A
never believed that the little ones ever. The little ones look squirly. Yeah. I never believed that they were living organic beings. They're very rigid.
Speaker A
Yeah, they're very rigid. I don't think that, you know, like their morphology really could have worked in the real world.
Speaker A
Like Monat, like that one. Monerat and and Maria and um there's a bunch of them. the those are very compelling when you when you're standing next to them looking at them.
Speaker A
The they were compelling. So I looked at the mummies and then I interviewed um Roger Zunya and he's very very convinced that they're 100% real. Sincerely, I mean I I like um Professor Zunya and he really is convinced. I don't think he's
Speaker A
not trying to perpetrate some kind of a hoax. Neither is anybody at the University of Eeka. There's a good faith effort going on there to try and investigate this and and and and continually do testing and there it's
Speaker A
it's an open field. They're Have they done genetic testing? Yeah, they've done all kinds of testing.
Speaker A
So, what do they find? Here's the problem. There's been a lot of testing done, but but I don't think the interpretation of the data has been competent.
Speaker A
Um, and so initially I was pretty impressed. I thought it was more likely than not. I even said this on the Michael Null show that it was more likely than not in my mind that the the the larger mummies like Maria were real,
Speaker A
but I've since reversed that position. I think it's more likely than not that all of them are a hoax.
Speaker A
That's my personal opinion. And this is a hot topic, you know, like on X and stuff. There's a lot of people who are absolutely sincerely convinced that these things are real. The problem is that this entire thing started with a
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with a grave robber, a very shady individual. And the very first mummies that were brought forward were were were hoaxes, were fake. That's how it started.
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And you know, this is a whole it's a whole saga we don't have to get into, but it started with fakes. It started with a hoax.
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And then they alle, you know, then allegedly they started to produce the real the real ones. And I I just have a hard time believing that that this is an elaborate hoax. Now, I've talked to some of the individuals who've
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um who've done some of the scientific work on these. They don't want me to mention their names or anything. Um they're trying to just sort of stay neutral. They don't want the press and they they also doubt that they're they're
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real. They think they're really really elaborate hoaxes and um I know that a lot of money has exchanged hands regard to these things.
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Maria was on up for sale for a million dollars at one point and if I mean if you're a proven grave robber a million dollars is like a billion dollars. I mean um so that's to me that's uh
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Can we see what the Maria one looks like? That's not that cast a lot of shade on the whole thing for me. Now I can't say scientifically the DNA data this that the other but there's a lot of debate
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going back and forth on this thing. Well, I think one of the problems is anatomists uh experts in anatomy have looked at the structure of the feet.
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Yes. In the hands and they they it doesn't seem to jive with what they understand about the structure of feet.
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That's true. That the bones are not in the proper position. They're not the proper size.
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They don't It doesn't look like it makes sense. But damn, that's amazing. Thanks, Maria.
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Like, here's the thing. If it is a hoax, like what an amazing job they did.
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Yeah. Maybe maybe the greatest hoax ever perpetrated in the history of archaeology. Like who did it and like what what talent this person has.
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There's a new note because this this website was the tridactyls.org. It [clears throat] got up there. There's a little note that popped up. It says they have ongoing research that just got updated.
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This is a great website. Uh what is the ongoing research? They're just there's more here than Maria might be Mario.
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Yeah, Mario. They call him Mario Mario now. It's a dude. Maybe he's nonbinary. Bunch more [laughter] data down here. I don't know what all this stuff is.
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Interesting. Bunch more data that people That's a great resource there. Um, so it's tridactyls.org.
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Um, go to the uh images of it again. Go down like right there. So this uh Okay, this is a 3D scan.
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Yeah, these are all scans. These are videos of the scans. [ __ ] weird, man. Look at the length also of the fingers and the toes.
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Well, you think that's a hoax? People said it wouldn't work that way. You know, [sighs] I What' you say, Jamie?
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People said that like the you can't grab stuff. There's pictures down here they have of people trying where was it?
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Trying to like grab stuff with uh I might have been looking at a different Yeah, I was looking at this. These are the fingers that you couldn't bend. They wouldn't bend or something like that.
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It's hard to like this person trying to grab stuff with long fingers without bendable, you know? uh appendages, I guess.
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Well, we're assuming that they had to grab things. Well, what would you have fingers for?
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Well, maybe they put them on a spaceship. That's how they pilot it. Maybe they've gone past the idea of picking things up. Maybe they lift things with their mind. Maybe that's how they move the blocks into place.
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I don't know. I'm more convinced than that that they're that they're a hoax. I don't I can't say definitively.
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Yeah, I would lean in that direction because I want them to be real. And the problem, but also whoever did hoax them, like Monster, whoever hoax that, like what an amazing job you guys did, and also there's some of them that have
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weird implants in their heads. They have metal implants in the one a couple of them have them in the hand, others have them in the forehead.
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Very weird stuff. Some of them have fetuses apparently, although that's there's some dispute about that. They say the fetuses look like, you know, that they look the same as the adults, which would be remarkable if true, but that's disputed.
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Everything's disputed, right? There's I mean there's there's there's there's a factional battle here between the the the believers and the naysayers right?
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And they're both looking at the same data, interpret interpreting it differently. So that's why I just sort of stand back and say I don't know. I mean, I can tell you how it started. It started with grave robbers, very um very
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seedy people, and it started the initial ones were not real. I know that because I know um the individuals who were involved in that whole thing. So just that alone.
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Yeah. Just that alone. I mean, but then how did they make the skin? How did they cover it? How did they make it look like? They're really good.
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I mean, you know, if you were selling these things for hundreds of thou if you were making $100,000 on just $100,000 on one of these mummies and you're a poor grave robber, you would do anything. and take whatever
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time it what whatever it took to produce one of these to sell it to make $100,000.
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But haven't they aged them like and they're really old? They harvest the pieces from the graves.
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Okay. From from the Nazca graves. They construct this somehow from really old skeletons pieced it together.
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That's the allegation. And also from old llamas and stuff like that. Yeah. Um, one of the other weird things about these elongated heads is that they have where it connects to the spine is in a different position than a human skull.
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Yes, there is some indication of that. Um, that's why I was pointing out on that the one that with the skin on it.
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There is a very interesting morphology with the where the of the neck where it connects into the spinal cord. Now, I'm not an expert on anatomy. I don't know.
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All I can look at it and say is that's freaking weird. I mean, really, really weird.
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It is weird. And all I and and I mean I always just remind people just you can argue about all the dad all day long, but if one of those people walked into this room right now, right, it wouldn't just be a little weird,
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right? It would be it would be utterly bizarre. Yeah. And an actual real human mummy or whatever it is, mummy, if that was alive today, it would freak you out.
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Yeah. Larger orbital sockets, very small, extremely elongated head. Yeah. It freak you out. It just makes you wonder like what was the world like back then? What what were these people like? Was there a separate branch of the human species?
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I don't know. I think I'm pretty sure now I'm I'm recalling the date 2,00 2500 BC somewhere around there is where the process culture goes back to and then it I think it existed until 700 AD. I'm I'm
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not sure that those numbers are accurate but that's what I remember. Yeah, there's a lot of weird stuff in Peru.
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Well, a lot of weird stuff in just ancient history in particular. What do you make of like things like Zepte and the Sumerian kings list where you you go back in time and you have these incredible ages of some of these rulers
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that ruled for thousands of years. Um, well, what's in what's really interesting is that if you overlay the Samrian kings list with the with the list of patriarchs, pre-flood patriarchs in Genesis 5, it's like a onetoone match.
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So, um, I'm not convinced that I think that the the Sumerian kings list is is the ages is mythological.
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Um, I don't think that they were ruling for thousands and thousands of years. Um uh I like I said I see this very interesting overlay over the over the Genesis 6 genealogy. These are the patriarchs from Adam to Noah. And
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specifically I mean these are the patriarchs who live before the flood. The flood came in the time of Noah. And you know, there's a lot of debate right now, especially online, and I think you've had people here on your show as
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well, that talk about the Sumerian story being the oldest story and being our sort of the the original story of the flood and and of the anti-dolivian world. But I actually I have a different view of that. I think actually the
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oldest story is the story of Enoch. It's the Enochian story. I think that's the original story. And maybe some of this strangeness, maybe some of the bizarre things that we see and the the stories of the flood and of the giants and all
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of that, maybe something like the book of Enoch is a is a actually an accurate account of affairs of things that happen in the anti-dolivian world. And certainly the writers of the biblical narrative believe that. I mean the
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writer of Genesis and then obvious in the New Testament you have references to to what I call the Anakian tale. And so when you think about this the anti-delivian world the cataclysm that that destroyed it seemingly overnight the
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great civilizations that existed back then. Um, you see a you see a series of of parallels in all the stories, all the ancient stories. Uh, whether it be the the the Sumerianss, whether it be the the ancient Egyptians, the um the
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Hebrews, the Greeks, the Romans, there are parallels in certain details. Great civilizations inhabited the earth, or at least a great civilization. And that doesn't necessarily mean that that they had the kind of technology that we have today. I think that's a mistake that
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some people make when they're thinking about the anti-livvian world and a lost civilization. They think, well, that means that there were skyscrapers and and automobiles and aircraft and things like that. That's not necessarily what it means. Um and so
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I think it's very very interesting that you have all of these parallels a cataclysm giants um you have a fratricidal war that's discussed for example in in you have the the vet and and some of the ancient Indian origin stories and another
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component that you find everywhere is this idea that the gods descended to the earth comingled with human species progenerated a race of demigods, in many accounts, giants, who then governed the earth. And depending on what version of the story you're reading,
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they were either good guys or bad guys leading up to the cataclysm that destroyed everything. You know, the biblical account, the great flood, and other accounts record various kinds of cataclysm, right, all over the world. So the question is I think an intriguing
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question is is it true? I mean are these basic um constituents of these stories is it true?
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And and I happen to believe that I happen to believe that that the book of Enoch is the beginning of the book of Enoch. The oldest portion of the book of Enoch called the book of the watchers is
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the earliest account of the anti-dolivian world. And I don't mean necessarily the book of Enoch that we have today. I mean the tradition of Enoch.
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Was there a manuscript that Enoch wrote himself? Enoch was the seventh from Adam. So he's one of those individuals on the Sumerian kings list.
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I believe he corresponds to Endem and Demaranki. I can't remember how to pronounce the name in the Sumerian name.
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But again, you have this overlay with the pre- flood patriarchs. You have all of these details that correspond.
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Now, we have evidence of cataclysm. We're finding evidence of cataclysm, right? We talked about the younger D impact hypothesis.
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So, are some of the other details true as well? Were there giants? Were there beings who descended to the earth in the anti-dolivian world? Did they populate with human women? I mean, that's that's essentially the story of Enoch.
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Enoch begins with um this is first Enoch. Enoch begins with a company of 200 watchers. These beings that are designated as watchers and they are they're heavenly beings.
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And the the the watcher designation is not exclusively extra biblical. You find it in the book of Daniel in a very interesting scene in which holy watchers are judging Nebuchadnezzar, the Babylonian king, and they sentence him to a period of time of madness where
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he's given the mind of a beast, and he's eating grass. And this is a judgment from the watchers. He's eating grass like an animal, and his hair grows long, and he's basically like a beast out in the field. The the the hotty king of
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Babylon, humbled in that way. And so the watcher designation is you find it in Daniel. But then in the book of Enoch, it's much more specific. These were 200 of these watchers. These are nonhuman celestial entities. You could describe
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them as extraterrestrial entities. And they they begin to lust after the daughters of men and they desire to uh to progenerate families. They want to have families.
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Do you think that this is a simplification of genetic engineering and that this depiction of it is just, you know, like the game of telephone, you're telling the old story through oral tradition for a long period of time as it gets relayed over time
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post flood. So you get this sort of distorted version of what the actual event was.
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I think it's possible there was genetic engineering involved. because we certainly look different than everything else on the planet.
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Well, the the book of Enoch, the the at least the Hebrew account both in the book of Genesis because the the there's a there's a verse Genesis 6 um that says, "Now it came to pass that when men began to multiply on the face
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of the earth and daughters were born to them that the sons of God saw the daughters of men that they were beautiful and they took wives of all whom they chose. There were giants or nephilim in the earth in those days and
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also afterward when the sons of God came into the daughters of men and they bore children to them. These were the mighty men of old, the men of renown. That's the reference to the to the origin of giants and Nephilim in the book of
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Genesis. And so in the Bible, you have these angelic beings, the sons of God, who are lusting. They're looking down at the daughters of men. They see that they're beautiful. The book of Enoch is even more explicit. The book of Enoch says
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that the that the angels of heaven, the watchers lusted after the daughters of men and they desired to progenerate families. So they descended they descended to the earth on the summit of Mount Hermon and they bound themselves by a pact of mutual
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impreations. In other words, we're all in this together. They knew what they were about to do was going to be very grave sin. So they bind themselves with an oath.
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That's why Mount Hermon has been known since time immemorial as the mountain of oath. Then they descended into the plains and they began to choose wives from among the daughters of men uh with whom to copulate. But first these were
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maidens that they intended to marry and there was a transaction that happened because in exchange for the for the maiden's hands in marriage the their fathers were given technology.
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So the watchers taught men the knowledge that they were already striving to learn. So there's and that's and it that's that's implied in the text. It's not explicit, but it's implied because the watchers give technology. They give knowledge which results in technology
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and they get an exchange the maidens that they desired to marry. And then they they copulate with them. They have sexual intercourse with them. The women conceive and give birth to giants. And then these giants begin to terrorize the
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earth. They're cannibalistic. They begin to devour men. So maybe a hybrid sort of like a liger.
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You know how a liger is a combination of a tiger and a lion? It's much larger.
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Large. Yeah. But they can't reproduce, right? Yeah. So the so the result is you have these watchers. Yeah. Their DNA mixed with the DNA of human women produces giants.
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And and you know this story by the way is attested in the Dead Sea Scrolls. Not just in the Bible, not just in the book of Enoch. the book of Enoch. Of course, fragments of it were discovered among
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the Dead Sea Scrolls. But you find you find this story in, for example, you find it in the book of giants, the book of Jubilees, the Genesis Apocryphan, and other texts as well. And so this is this story, as bizarre as it is, is
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foundational to Hebrew cosmology. This is what the ancient Hebrews believed literally happened. Like this was a in their minds, this was a historical event. You go back in time, you go to the anti-olivian world, the world before the flood. What do they
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envision? They envision the watchers, these gods living among men, populating with human women, giants who were who who were cannibalistic. And then God decides intervene because the giants are there's it's a very bad scene on planet Earth. And people begin to cry
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out, petition heaven. God decides to intervene according to Enoch and he's he dispatches some angels and they one of the things that they do is they set the giants against each other in a fratricidal war.
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So they make the giants go to war with each other. Now when I envision this scenario playing with the idea here that this actually happened right in the anti-dolivian world I don't imagine big dumb giants you know bopping each other over the
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heads with clubs I imagine a technological war because what I see unfolding here and I think again this is implicit in the inkian story is that the watchers are essentially creating a dynasty. They are building an empire called the empire of the gods in the
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anti-dolivian world there. They are each portioning the earth among themselves and their hybrids are ruling each of these kingdoms and then they go to war with each other. And again, I see this as a technological war because I don't
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believe that in the biblical account, angels never have wings. Only in prophetic icon iconography, but in the historical narrative of the Bible, angels are never depicted with wings.
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They are depicted as uh operating what what I would describe as advanced aerospace vehicles, the chariots of God, the chariots of Yahweh, the chariots of fire, variously denominated. And I think that these are vehicles of conveyance and and so the watchers when they
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descended to the earth I think they descended to the earth in some kind of a vehicle you know like that right so they would have the knowledge and there would be some technology and so when these when their offspring the giants went to
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war with each other in this fractalidal war it would have been a technological war now the reason why I say that is Because you have the story of the watchers as as chronicled in the book of Enoch, but then overlay the story of Atlantis.
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You have the same story. So of course the story of Atlantis comes to us from Plato's Tmus and Citrius dialogue and he has Solen of Athens traveling to Egypt and and and interfacing with the priests of SC and
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they tell him you know you don't have any history that's horriy with age and so forth and then they begin to relate to him the story of Atlantis because they told him that his ancestors were remarkable people. They were the they
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were the Athenians and only they could resist the warlike Atlantanss, right? And then we get the story of Atlantis.
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How does the story of Atlantis begin in uh in Plato's dialogue? Well, it begins with the gods aortioning the earth amongst themselves. That's how it begins. So, here are the gods dividing, divvying up the earth. They're going to
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create what I again describe as an empire of the gods. They're divvying up the earth and each one is going to take an a portion of the earth for himself.
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Poseidon, Plato tells us, gets the area of Atlantis. And what does Poseidon do? Well, he becomes enamored of a human woman named Plato. He takes her to wife.
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He copulates with her. She gives birth to 10 hybrid sons who become the kings of Atlantis. And I think there's reason to believe that they were giants in the myths.
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Atlas, for example, was chief among them. So you have these 10 hybrid sons ruling over Atlantis.
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Then what happens? Then you have and presumably the other gods did the same thing in other parts of the world, right? They went out and and married human women and gave birth to hybrid offspring, which is of course what
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happens in Greek mythology with a lot of these gods. They progenerate hybrid offspring. Then you have a war that breaks out. The Atlantanss become very warlike. They go on a a campaign and they they're steamrolling everybody in their way until they get to the
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Athenians and they're locked in this conflict. So I'm hoping people are picking up the parallels here with the book of Enoch with this with the story of Enoch. And in the midst of this conflict, what happens? Cataclysm ensues.
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Atlantis, but not just Atlantis. Atlantis in the insinuation is everybody gets destroyed in a cataclysm that erupts suddenly and Atlantis is consumed in in the waves and and is no more. Well, the whole point of the Egyptians when they're
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telling this story to Solon, one of the one of the points that they're trying to convey to Solon is there have been many cataclysms, world ending cataclysms. And every time a cataclysm happens, we have to start over like children, right? So
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the parallels between the book of Enoch and I think it, by the way, I think Atlantis that Atlantis is an allegory of the anti-dolivian world in general.
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I think that there was something like an empire of the gods in the anti-dolivian world and I personally believe that um that the biblical record is the is the faithful account of what happened in the anti-dolivian world and with the
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addition of the book of Enoch um because you cannot separate you cannot separate the Enochian narrative the Enochic traditions from the Bible. Well, Enoch is referenced in the Bible, and the only reason why the book of Enoch is not in
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the cannon of the Bible is because of some rabbis, right? Well, it's it's complicated. So, the book of Enoch is a compilation of texts and ranging from the 4th century BC to probably the 1st century AD.
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The tradition of Enoch, I think, is very old. I think the tradition of Enoch, this that that story I just outlined, that tradition of Enoch is the oldest story we have, the one upon which all the other stories
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are based. That's my personal opinion. Now, the actual book of Enoch that we have today, the only reason we have it is because it was preserved in Ethiopia.
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That's the only reason we have the book of Enoch today. The Ethiopian Bible, the Ethiopians preserved it. both the the uh the the beta Israel Jews, very very ancient Jewish community and the Tawahedo Orthodox Christians.
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Do you think they have the Ark of the Covenant? I think, let's put it this way. I think Graham Hancock makes a very compelling case that they do. Have you read his book, The Sign in the Seal?
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Yeah. It's the whole depiction of these people that are the watchers of this thing get cataracts because it has some radiation properties.
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Yeah. Very compelling narrative. Yeah. None of them live more than a couple years after they get the assignment.
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Yeah, it's I think it's a it's a very strong possibility that they do. That's crazy.
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It would be crazy. Yeah. And I think that um many people including Graham think that the Ark of the Covenant was there's something technological about it, something radioactive about it.
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Um, but it it is it's interesting though because you have the idea at the very least the potential for technology in the anti-dolivian world, right? Advanced technology. So what what do I mean? Well, what if we're talking about the watchers who
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descended the earth, like I said, the Hebrews believe that that actually happened, that that was historical. That wasn't mythological to them. That was historical, that event. Well, what if they did arrive in something like like that? like like a like a flying saucer,
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right? What if there was some level of of technology introduced? But I don't believe that it would have been distributed, broadly distributed, you know, talking about like an like an advanced lost civilization. I don't think that technology would be broadly distributed.
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I think that the technology would remain in these family lines in these dynasties because their desire was to govern everyone. So I think what we might be looking for instead of a technologically advanced civilization, maybe a technologically advanced fraternity
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within civilization. You see what I mean? Like a group that was in that was in control of something advanced, but the rest of the people maybe were Iron Age or something like that or whatever bronze age level, which is kind of a
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different perspective. Well, we see that today, right? I mean there's plenty of people today that are uncontacted tribes that are living like people lived tens of thousands of years ago.
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That's exactly right. Yeah. So yeah, it's not uniform even today. Right. So we may So I think that's why when we think about was there a technologically advanced civilization in the anti-living world in the world before the great cataclysm. I think
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really what we're looking what I'm looking for is a is a is a fraternity who were in possession of technology that the rest of everyone didn't have.
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Maybe something like that. Although I will say that I believe that the antilovians were much more remarkable than we are in every way. I think they were physically more robust than we are.
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I think that they were intellectually much more they were intellectually superior to us. Uh as I was saying before this how the ancients thought of their anticedants. And so when I look back on the timeline of history, the
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further you go back all the way to those pre flood patriarchs, you're looking at human beings who who were so superior to us. I mean certainly according to the biblical account, they were living much much longer, almost a thousand years. You're
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looking at human beings who who we would scarcely be regarded as as as human like them because they would have been more human than we are because we've degenerated. So I see a degeneration I see a devolution in the human species.
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We started as something really really remarkable and we've been gradually devolving over time so to speak. We've been degenerating. I think that our anticedants, our anti-delivian anticcedants, I [snorts] think they were telepathic.
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I think that they had these incredible abilities, capabilities that that that are perhaps latent in the human species today.
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Well, that might have been why these people had such large heads in Peru, too.
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Maybe. Right. Maybe everybody had elongated skulls at one time. I don't know. But I mean, think about that, though. I mean, if if you were see from a biblical perspective, Adam was created for two for two fundamental reasons. He was
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created to govern the earth, but more than that, he was created to fellowship with the maker, to commune with the maker. He was created for fellowship. So, think about that. If you were created to fellowship with the maker, with God, you would have some
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extraordinary capabilities built into your anatomy, into your biology. You would be given the ability to interface with the maker. And not just with the maker, but with with whatever whatever else is out there as well. So from the
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very beginning I think that mankind was was imbued was it was intrinsic in our design that we had all of these these incredible capabilities.
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Maybe remote viewing, maybe certainly I would say telepathy because telepathy is conversation at the speed of thought, right? I mean, we fumble around with words. We we it takes us kind of a long time to try and say what we mean. But
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but what if what you wanted to convey to me was done so instantaneously. How much more could you convey? How much more information? How much more efficient would that mode of conversation be?
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It certainly seems like if we keep evolving, that's the future. or if we keep developing better and better versions of technology. One of the things that the gaps that we would bridge is Elon said that he said we're
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going to be able to talk without words. Well, the problem is that our technology is getting better, but our species is getting dumber and our biology is getting weaker and we're poisoner.
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But it's not just because of poison. Yes, we poison our environment. We poison our bodies certainly but I believe that there it's clear to me that there that we have degenerating and we are degenerating. We are degenerating.
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So um and this is genetic degeneration. So we have what's called mutational load. Human beings all creatures we have mutational load. And mutational load is all of the delletterious mutations all of the negative mutations that happen in our genome.
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they compile and it becomes this it becomes this burden this genetic burden. We have all of these mutations that we're carrying mutational load and the further we go down the line the more mutational load we have and again these are
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delletterious mutations. So you [snorts] get all kinds of problems from that. I mean we we basically what it amounts to is we become less and less and less impressive over time and there's nothing we can do. You can't
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reverse that. You can't just have a good diet and and get and regain the capabilities that were lost. That's impossible. So, we're declining.
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Our technology is ascending. We're declining. So, what we're headed for essentially is a posthuman future.
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A future in which we have to we have to evolve ourselves out of this condition.
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I would say out of Adam, into something else. And I'm not in favor of that, by the way. I'm not a transhumanist. But clearly, you have this you have this conundrum where we are clearly getting dumber as a
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species. There's no doubt about it. I mean, I saw I can't reference it here, but I saw some data on this the other day. Um, and it's astounding. It's it's it's kind of alarming. And not only that, we've realized and I try and remember
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the reference to this this book that's um that details this, but the human species is essentially becoming reproductively inviable.
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The sperm count of males in the west is declining precipitously as is our fitness. So that is on the decline such that I think the projection is in 2045 or something like that we're going to basically be reproductively
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inviable. We're going to need a technological intervention like artificial wombs. Well, what's happening right now? We're developing things like artificial wombs.
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So it's it's very interesting that these two things are running in parallel. We're degenerating, but our technology is increasingly getting better. So the the result of this is going to be what I describe as posthuman apocalypse. I mean
Speaker A
we're we're headed for a future that's not human. That's what um the you all know her is out there prognosticating that in I think he says in 120 to 130 years from now there will be no more human beings left on planet
Speaker A
earth. So why am I saying this? Because I'm illustrating that you go back in time. [clears throat] You go all the way back to the beginning. If you come from a biblical par paradigm like I do, you're you're in the first man, Adam,
Speaker A
the prototypical man. He has all of the incredible capabilities that are innate built into his system. He he can he he's communing with his maker. He's governing the earth. He's have he he can do all of these amazing things. And then as we
Speaker A
become copies of copies of copies of copies of copies of Adam all the way down, we're we're gradually losing these abilities. But I think that some of them are still, you know, latent in the human species. And I think that explains
Speaker A
remote remote viewing and telepathy and things like that. I don't know how I got on that. Uh listen, it makes a lot of sense and it's a fascinating conversation and uh I enjoyed this very much.
Speaker A
I did as well. Fun. Thank you very much for being here. Uh, tell everybody if they want to get a hold of your stuff, they want to find you, where they could find you on social media, where they could find your
Speaker A
website. Um, Timothy Alberino on social media, on Instagram, on X. Uh, I have a YouTube channel, Timothy Alberino. So, I have a book called Birthright. Uh, and I also published commentary on commentary and introduction of the book of Enoch with
Speaker A
my friends. We're gonna have to get to that. That's a whole another conversation. I'm Next time we're going to have to have that conversation.
Speaker A
I would love to. I would love to. Thank you very much. [music] My pleasure.
Speaker A
Bye everybody. [music]
Topics:Kandahar giantJoe Rogan ExperienceTimothy Alberinogiantsmilitary secrecyAfghanistanoccultNephilimUFOsancient history
