The C O W S Mummies, Cannibals and Vampires

[Music] Are you searching for the best in online black radio? Then go to blackttalkrnetwork.com, helping you filter through the noise. Real talk, Blackt. [Music] [Music] Talk context of white supremacy. Justice Gusty Renegade here for another broadcast, hopefully to share constructive information on the world system of racism. Today's date is Wednesday, December 17th, 2014. So, I have been told we are on much earlier than we normally would be. As I said down through the years, I always enjoy talking to people from different parts of the planet just to get a better understanding of how things work on the planet. Thanks to all of the folks who are tuning in early. If you happen to be on your job or whatever the case may be, for our folks who are outside of the States, the people who have complained lovingly down through the years that the normal broadcast time comes on so late for people who are in the UK or other parts of the world, you should be ecstatic because now you have a program that is airing at a time where it should be very easy for you to tune in live so you don't have to listen to the archives. Our broadcast for today, speaking of our international listeners, I first heard about the book that we're going to discuss today a few years back, and I thought it would be great to get the author on the program. Just through the normal course of life, I got distracted. I got the book, I got a copy of the book, and it's like, man, we really should try and get him on the program and just got dislodged or what have you, forgetful. But thankfully, one of our listeners in the UK, she reminded me just a few weeks back. She reminded me of the book and she said, "Gus, you know, do you know about this book? Don't you think it would be constructive and maybe see if you could get this author on the program?" I said absolutely, I appreciate the reminder. Take that as a signal from the universe, reached out, and the author was willing to speak with us this evening. For folks in the UK this evening, folks in the States this morning, early afternoon, our guest, he is a staff member in the Department of English at Durham University in Durham City. His topics of research include literature, medicine, and Renaissance studies. We'll be investigating his 2011 publication, Mummies, Cannibals, and Vampires: The History of Corpse Medicine from the Renaissance to the Victorians. Fascinating book. I would definitely encourage folks to check out a copy. It reminds me of Dr. Frances Cress Welsing when she says consistently that reading is more important than watching television. There are fascinating books out there that you can read that will give you an overwhelming wealth of interesting information about the world in which we live. Our guest joining us live from the UK, Dr. Richard Sugg. Dr. Sugg, are you with us? Good evening, thank you. Yes, thank you. Pleasure to have you on the broadcast. As I said, always great to have folks joining us from different parts of the globe. For any of our listeners anywhere in the world, this might be their first time hearing about you and the work that you've done. Anything that you think would be helpful for folks to know about you before we get started? Yeah, I will actually be doing a second edition of the book, we hope, which is good because the book's been quite popular and it's just been a little bit more expensive, and I like it to be because it had to be very long. It had to detail all this material which you have gone through with some amazement perhaps, and it had to actually prove that this happened because this was so strange. But what I want to do now is make a slightly shorter version of the book, which is going to be a bit cheaper than I think it's 28 UK price. Although having had a very kind introduction from you in reference to books over television, I can say that it has been on television briefly as well, if that can be raged up from the internet. The latest research that I'm doing, people might be interested in, should be coming out this coming year, not too far in the future, and this is on vampires, but partly the more familiar vampires that people know coming out of their coffins and stalking the living in the shape of the undead. So, the real vampires is the next project on the way. Fascinating. Folks can keep an eye out for that. Just really great info. Hopefully, we can cover as much as possible, but folks that are listening in, if you have questions for Dr. Sugg as we proceed, feel free to dial in. He should be with us for about an hour or so, so do not be bashful. Get your hand up and we will snag as many questions from listeners as we can throughout the discussion. Before we get started, since, as I said, we always look forward to having folks on from different parts of the world, before we get to your material, just, there's been so much unrest in the US over the past few months or so with regards to racism, what happened in Ferguson, what happened with Eric Garner, Michael Brown. Have you seen any of that? Do you have any thoughts on what you've seen if you've paid attention to that at all? I have. It's animated people in Britain a lot, although I also have friends who lived in St. Louis, funnily enough, for quite a long time. They worked there for years and then they moved back to work in Durham. But yeah, it's taken everybody by storm. It struck me when I was going through this topic and some of your questions, I perhaps come to it individually later, but it seems to me a kind of sad example of how the powerful managed to normalize what they do, if that makes sense. What we're looking at here was hardly ever kind of complained about as cannibalism in the period, despite the fact they were denouncing the cannibals of the New World all the time. And the powerful do seem to have that strange ability to normalize the most perverse or irrational or unjust behavior. Absolutely. I know these incidents. I have drawn parallels to what happened with Mark Duggan in 2011 in London, especially because Michael Brown Jr. was shot and killed almost three years to the day that Mark Duggan was shot and killed and the subsequent unrest. Yeah, they had, in fact, they had an anniversary march almost, I think it was two days before Michael Brown was shot and killed. I remember playing it the day that everything started happening in St. Louis. But lots of parallels there worldwide where I've seen people saying black lives matter. Very relevant. At any rate, to get back to your book, I guess to kind of start off with, I thought it would be interesting to get your thoughts. We pay a lot of attention to words, and I think just the way that words are used and the etymology and history of words, I think can reveal a lot about a certain group of people or a culture and what people put values on. As it relates to your research in this book, what do you think the significance is, particularly, I think in British culture in the UK, using the term bloody as an adjective to say, "It's a bloody good day." What do you think the use of that term bloody in that context reveals, particularly given the research that you've done? Well, I'm told actually that it's supposed to be originally a corruption of "by my lady," so it's actually a form of blasphemy, in fact. And it would make sense that a lot of people in Christian culture traditionally would rather actually use a swear word, if you like, however kind of, you know, four-letter it might be, than use a religious curse, if you like, what they consider blasphemy. So yeah, I remember hearing a long time ago that it was a corruption of "by my lady," my lady being the Virgin Mary, in fact. But obviously, it's taken on different strains and I suppose it's the...

hopefully to share constructive information on the world system of racism uh today's date Wednesday December 17th 2014 so I have been told uh we are on much earlier than we normally would be uh as I said down through the years always enjoy talking

to people uh from different parts of the Planet uh just to get a better understanding of how things work uh on the planet uh thanks to all of the folks who are tuning in early uh if you happen

to be on your job or whatever the case may be uh for our folks who are outside of the states uh the people uh who have uh complained lovingly down through the years that the normal broadcast time comes on so late uh for people who are

in the UK or other parts of the world uh you should be ecstatic uh cuz now you have a program that is airing uh at a time where should be very easy for you to tune in live uh so you don't have to

listen to The Archives uh our broadcast uh for today speaking of our International listeners uh I first heard about the book that we're going to discuss today a few years back and I thought it would be great to get the

author on the program and just through the normal course of life I got uh distracted I got the book I got a copy of the book it's like man we really should try and get him on the program

and just uh got dislodged or what have you forgetful uh but thankfully one of our listeners in the UK uh she reminded me just a few weeks back uh she reminded me of the book and she said Gus you know

do you know about this book and don't you think it would be constructive and maybe see if you could get this this author on the program I said absolutely I appreciate the reminder uh take that as a signal from the universe reached

out and the author author was willing to speak with us this evening uh for folks in the UK this evening folks uh in the States this morning early afternoon uh Our Guest he is a staff member in the department

of English at Durham University in Durham city uh his topics of research include literature medicine and Renaissance studies uh we'll be investigating his 2011 publication mummies cannibals and vampires the history of corpse medicine from the Renaissance to the victorians

fascinating book I would definitely encourage folks uh check out a copy uh reminds me of Dr Francis Crest welsing when she says consistently that uh reading is more important than watching television there are fascinating books uh out there that you can read that will

give you over wealth of interesting information about the world in which we live uh Our Guest joining us live from the UK Dr Richard sug uh Dr sug are you with us good evening thank you yes thank you

pleasure to have you on the broadcast uh as I said always great to have folks joining us from uh different parts of the globe uh for any of our listeners uh anywhere in the world uh this might be

their first time hearing about you and the work that you've done uh anything that you think would be helpful for folks to know about you before we get started yeah I will actually be doing a second edition of the book we hope which

is good because the the book's been quite popular and it's just been a little bit more expensive and I like it to be because it had to be very long it had to detail all this material which you you have gone through with with some

um amazement perhaps and and it had to actually prove that this happened because this was so strange but what I want to do now is is make a slightly shorter version of the book um which is going to be a bit cheaper than I think

it's 28 UK uh price although having had a very kind introduction from you in reference to books over television I can say that it has been on television briefly as well if that can be raged up from from the internet um latest

research that I'm doing people might be interested in uh should be coming out this this coming year not too not too far in the future and this is on vampires uh but partly the the more familiar vampires that people know

coming out of their coffins and uh stalking the the living in the shape of the undead so the real vampires is the next project on the way fascinating uh folks can uh keep an eye out for that uh

just really great info hopefully we can cover as much as possible but folks that are listening in if you have questions uh for Dr sug as we proceed feel free to dial in uh he should be with us for

about an hour or so so do not be bashful get your hand up and we will snag as many uh questions from listeners as we can uh throughout the discussion uh before we get started since uh we as I

said we always look forward to having folks on from different parts of the world before we get to your material just there's been so much unrest uh in the US over the past few months or so uh with regards to racism what happened in

Ferguson what happened uh with Eric Garner Michael Brown have you seen any of that do you have any any thoughts on what you've seen if you've paid attention to that at all I I have it's it's it's it's animated people in in

Britain a lot although I also have friends who lived in in St Louis funnily enough um for quite a long time they worked there for years and then they they moved moved back to to work in Daren but but yeah it's it's it's taken

Everybody by storm um and it struck me when I was going through this topic and some of your questions I perhaps come to it individually later but it seems to me a kind of sad uh example of how the

powerful managed to normalize what they do if if that makes sense um what we're looking at here was was hardly ever kind of complained about as cannibalism um in in the period uh despite the fact they were denouncing the cannibals of the new

world all the time and the powerful do seem to have that strange ability to normalize the most uh perverse or irrational or unjust Behavior absolutely uh I know uh these incidents I have drawn parallels uh to what happened with Mark Dugen uh in 2011

in London uh especially because Michael Brown Jr was shot and killed almost three years to the day uh that Mark Dugen was shot and killed and the subsequent unrest yeah uh they they had uh in fact they had an anniversary March

almost I think it was 2 days before Michael Brown was shot in killed that I was I remember playing it the day that everything started happen in St Louis but uh lots of parallels there uh worldwide where I've seen people saying

black lives matter um very relevant uh at any rate to get back to your book um I guess to kind of start off with I thought it would be interesting to get your thoughts we pay a lot of attention

to words uh and I think just the the way that words are used and the atmology and history of words I think can reveal a lot uh about a certain group of people or a culture and what people put values

on as it relates to your research in this book uh what do you think the significance is particularly I think in uh British culture in the UK using the term bloody as an adjective to say it's a it's a bloody good day uh what do you

think the use of that term bloody in that context what does that reveal particularly given the research that you've done well I I'm I'm told actually that it's supposed to be originally a Corruption of uh of by my lady so it's

actually a form of blasphemy in fact and uh it would make sense that a lot of people in in Christian culture traditionally they'd rather actually use a swear word if you like however kind of you know four letter it might be than

use a religious uh curse if you like what they consider blasphemy so uh yeah I remember hearing a long time ago that it was it was a Corruption of by my lady my lady being in the Virgin Mary in fact

um but obviously it's taken on different um strains and I suppose it's the fact that BL blood isn't simply good or bad if you like but blood is powerful um for lots of reasons um whether it's to do with uh

the force of life whether it's to do with somebody taking your blood spilling your blood to do with disease and contamination it's it's it's a very powerful thing and I suppose in a culture in which a lot of things have

become diluted if you like that we have so many kind of pseudo versions of sugar or fat or salt or whatever it might be blood remains blood it remains that kind of Dent essence of of life which is not

not diluted in that way I was going to ask what what prompted you to do such uh interesting research uh to get this book together but before I do just for for folks who haven't seen uh you on television or

familiar with you uh you are a white man is that correct Dr Su I I am yes okay right on uh now get to my question this is such a such an interesting field of of research what what prompted uh you to

explore this particular subject matter thanks yeah it was it was a long slow process it came out of studying Anatomy which was just being born if you like in the in the early modern period in the 16th 17th centuries they were

just learning to do rigorous scientific anatomy and to really look at the body and to find out a lot of the things they believed about it were wrong at one time they believed in a kind of organ of the

Soul if you like around the uh bottom of the human brain this was obviously controversial when they started anatomizing and when you're dealing with something like that you naturally come across other kind of visceral topics and another one was was cannibalism some

people actually considered that Anatomy was if you like too extreme too much of a transgression of of the human body and its sanctity and so on uh and so you would occasionally see comparisons between anatomists and cannibals but

this was a kind of cannibal Invasion I think that idea of invasion Crossing sacred boundaries is interesting uh and slowly I started to realize there was a lot to the subject of cannibalism and one strange thing that was almost

unknown uh was was medicinal cannibalism I went to a a dinner party a few nights ago and I said to somebody who's an academic in the kind of area anthropology where you'd expect them to have heard of this so I've been

researching medicinal cannibalism and we we had a few drinks before he talked to me again and I realized he thought I said medicinal cannabis um but this is so unheard of people people don't know you know what to make of it when they

hear you say it um so yeah it was a slow process finding out how much of this there had been uh how much denial there was about it and to give credit actually where it's due um I think I kind of left

the subject for a while and was prompted by a student of mine an old student Dan from uh Cardiff uh who who said look this is a this is a blinding story isn't it this is a dynamite topic that has got

in it that core of hypocrisy that that that great uh hidden secret if you like secret history of of the European cannibals and and in many ways that's how it's been taken that they've been uncovered after denouncing the cannibals

of Brazil or Canada or or Africa for so long H you just said uh that this a lot of this has been uh denied or a lot of people are not familiar uh with the history of European cannibalism uh in

your book you referen this as quote unquote dirty history uh why is it titled as such yeah dirty history covers a lot of things and it covers the fact that um they they consider this too dirty for medical history in the early 20th

century they whitewashed it uh over really and trying to deny it happened I'll come to that in a bit but but dirty history also covers literally the fact that the past was really dirty the past was really filthy and ironically we go

to galleries we go to museums to engage with the past and I think in a a quite powerful subconscious sense we think the past smells really really nice the past smells like varnish like well cleaned wood like Galleries and museums smell

like and and it doesn't it didn't of course it it stank a lot of the time so you give you a few quick examples from the very top of society where you'd be expect people to be able to be clean to

afford to be clean have the time to do it uh of course he didn't have to work and get dirty uh let's start with some monarchs Elizabeth I um uh who's a a figure in much of this history um we're

told quote that she had a bath once a month whether she needed it not uh then we have James the first who makes Elizabeth the First Look sparkling clean um James the first almost never washed any part of his body except the tips of

his fingers occasionally um if you sat next to him in court you were a courtly lady you had a good chance of getting lice headlice from James and uh he he he he spank fouly you're next to this

Monarch and you have to pretend that you're not revolted by it but this was a Man Who Loved hunting so much that he would ride all day uh and urinate in the saddle to save the trouble of dismounting factor this into somebody

who doesn't wash and doesn't change their clothes I quote until they wear out uh and you start to get some sense of how filthy the top of society could be never mind uh never mind the bottom and the the ranks going

down fascinating wow I want to just read a a quick passage before I get my uh next question in and as you already stated very lengthy uh bit of text you have lots of foot not it's just rich

with information uh this is on for me it's on page 15 uh you right we must add to that Royal cannibals such as Charles II Francis I Christian ivth of Denmark and William II were just the tip of the

social Iceberg for well over 200 years in early modern Europe the rich and the poor the educated and the illiterate all participated in cannibalism on a more or less routine basis drugs were made from Egyptian mummies and from the dried

bodies of those drowned in Northern North African desert sandstorms later in the era the corpses of hanged criminals offer a new and less exotic source of human flesh human blood was also swallowed sometimes fresh and hot direct from a donor's body uh I'll stop there

uh the term corpse medicine it's it's in the title of the text and that's something that you spent a lot of uh time on and talking about how widespread this words can you kind of give our listeners an idea of what that is corpse

medicine yeah absolutely thanks for that um useful quotation but there's much much to it so um I can I can tell you as much as you can stomach really uh the the key ingredients for this were flesh uh and

then if we stop at flesh for a moment there was a key question the question wasn't should you eat people for medicine the question was what sort of people should you eat for medicine and you just briefly t on it there so the

division was between Egyptian mummies bodies that I suppose to some people didn't seem like ordinary flesh like ordinary bodies were distanced were relatively Anonymous were were not bloody didn't smell bad and so on and uh this would involve crumbling a little

bit of this Frable matter off the Egyptian money you smuggled stolen whatever and uh putting it on a plaster which would go on a wound putting it in a drink which you would swallow for bruising for bleeding and

and this this was a big uh export and smuggling problem as we find then the the second alternative was this this was derived from the paracelsian who were medical followers and iconoclasts in this period medical terms followers of

paracelsus um Swiss physician very radical character died about 1541 and his his followers went in Vogue for a long time into the early 17th century and they would tell you you should do this get a hold of a young man

red hair dead of a violent death um which was preferably hanging or drowning not stabbing interestingly there interesting reason for this and you should take this flesh cut it from the thighs the arms you should prepare it with various spices hang it out under

the moon more or less marinade it uh uh or smoke it indeed um and then you could in fact prepare this into a most red tincture so you want to be aware if you go back in a time machine to the r

someone's OB you a pleasant looking red tincture it could be this uh and it could have a very uh unpleasant Source but yeah these were the two big forms of uh what was called mummy so the term that applies obviously to Egyptian

mummies became transferred to uh a hanged criminal from London or Paris or or Berlin perhaps we've then got another big one which is interesting blood uh mommy mommy cost you cost you money and some of these medicines could cost a lot

of money they're profitable whereas blood you could have fairly cheaply and you had it like this uh you stood at a scaffold at a beheading in Germany in Scandinavia and you held a cup you you you got this cup from the execution or

his assistants this was part of their sort of salary per scheme as it were uh that they could sell anybody parts of the decapitated and the moment the head was off you you either caught the blood in cups in some cases it was brought to

you and you drank it as fast as you could really you know almost burning hot perhaps uh and then in a lot of cases you ran as fast as you could this was actually part of the Cure you ran until you dropped

people in the RAC didn't run for fun it was not a Leisure activity and this was often done for epilepsy disease of the Soul very taboo disease at the time so yeah we have accounts from Germany up to

1865 note the date here uh the period we seem to be in you know of Germany with all its gentility it's its Heyday of class music and so forth and Scandinavia we we have cases of stampedes people camping out the night before the

execution having traveled there just to get the blood um and then almost crushing each other to death in a rush to get the blood we have one case in Scandinavia in I believe it's 1866 where the military is actually there for

warned to stop them getting the blood so they push everybody back and carry off the Corpse as quickly as they can but even after this and this is a spectacle that's stuck in my mind it's not actually in the book it's one I found

recently and uh even after this the crowd surges forward and the people at the front stuff into their mouths the bloody Earth that's been used to soak up the blood of the of the Felon we have a Swedish case again where

um the decapitation occurs and two girls about 15 17 run through the crowd cups in their hand hands stick them under the neck which is jetting blood uh and drink the blood and in this case this doesn't always happen but the police say what

are you doing please take them a sign what's going on here and the girls say no no look at this piece of paper we paid the man who was executed for his blood we paid for it he he gave his

consent um and uh and as far as we know they were let off for this so blood was a bit more affordable than than the standard medicine although you did also and this is something you might want to

hear a bit more about have a character such as mailo fuchino um big character a huge kind of you know intellectual figure in in the period had something like status of difficult to compare very precisely something like n Chomsky if

you like that kind of range and and reverence for his his learning and F recommended being the son of a doctor that actually if you were old and a bit worn out uh you could rejuvenate Yourself by drinking blood from the arm

of a living living young man and you you you pay for this and and do it I suppose fairly regularly so we got flesh we got blood another big one was fat which you didn't obviously have to take into your

body although of course if you put it on a sore a wound likelihood you absorb it which you could count as a form of cannibalism so human fat was a big big commodity for wounds for sores for gout

for rheumatism and it survived quite a long time it survived into the 18th century when people were starting to turn against some of the other corpse medicines and we we have tales about human fat and its sources the

Executioner had the right to sell it and to prepare medicines and the Executioner did actually act as a kind of doctor to people with these these body parts uh we have a memorable tale particularly from norfol in uh the the southeast of

England and this is a case from 1736 so 18th century case where husband and wife have an argument the uh husband rushes Out In the Heat of temper hangs himself straight away kills himself and and the wife uh goes to get um uh somebody to to

deal with the body and there's a debate about whether is he going to be buried at the crossroads he was a suicide the wife says no he's not going to be buried at all and she fetches a surgeon and um

the surgeon's patting the body all over and the wife looks him and says he's fine he's just what you want he's as fat as butter sells the body for its fat uh for I believe it was a guinea uh whether

it was good price or not I suppose would depend on the the quality of the relationship um so we got Flesh Blood and fat and another big and interesting one which could or couldn't be cannibalistic was the human skull very

big commodity and you would shave something off the human skull uh I was actually asked on this uh television program to grade a bit of a pig skull and it's fairly easy to do with a cheese grater so you get your powder of human

skull you might just put it in a drink if you were poor and that would be your medicine if you were rich like Charles II who allegedly paid £6,000 for the recipe for what was called Spirit of skull you would prepare it very

precisely skillfully in your private laboratory and uh this Spirit of human skull uh came to be known as as the king's drops because it was so closely associated with Charles II and the other commodity you would get here you would

see skulls in a chemist and you would think right that's a real skull I'm getting a real human skull not any substitute you know so you might buy the whole skull but you could see it in the window with moss um so this is a picture

if it's available to people on the front of the book um and that that skull has got Moss on it which will grow sometimes when a skull's left unburied and this Moss was another big commodity it was used for bleeding for a wound for a nose

bleed so you take the Moss you powder it you tip your head back and you stick it up your your nostrils um Robert Bole swore by this that it would stop bleeding Robert Bole being across the father of chemistry a big scientific

figure late 17th century um earlier scientific figure Francis Bacon uh 17th century was a bit ambivalent about this and um he cites a wonderful recipe uh which as with many parts of this story don't try it at home but but a recipe

for um wounds and um it involved most of the human skull uh human skull itself and the fat of two bears killed in the act of generation which I believe be pretty hard to to calculate or get uh

bacon was ambivalent about whether this worked or not I'm not sure that it works but if you do want some human skulls there's lots of them lying about unburied uh in in Ireland and uh that's probably enough for me for the moment we

can talk about Ireland because it's quite interesting topic perhaps a bit later I'm putting a note down for Ireland I remember that in the book as well uh for for many reasons I just um wanted to get one point because this

comes out through the book repeatedly and I think you already mentioned it brief uh briefly that in this practice of corpse medicine many times it was recommended if you could get a body if you could get it freshh uh right after

uh the person has died uh and especially if the person died in a violent manner what was so special about getting out blood or other human material from someone who died in a violent manner it it was allegedly

that it actually prepared what they called the spirits of the body and this this involves a slight deter if you can bear with me but they needed to link the soul to the body uh in their theory of

uh medicine and their theory of Theology and they did this by a medium which was quite physical really it was the hottest finest part of the blood so I suppose if if you to cut ourselves on a cold day we

we'd see what looks like well we see what we believe to be steam coming from the wound they would consider this steam to be Spirits the spirits of the blood and they believe that it did almost everything in the body before they

understood electricity complex chemistry and so on these Spirits did Vision they did sex physiology uh and many other things and they were flitting about the body faster than thought very very fast and they were this link between uh the

body and the soul and clearly a lot of people couldn't quite separate them from the soul I suppose a kind of Continuum between Body and Soul existed where these Spirits were a crucial bridging point and they they blurred into the

soul if you like for some people and therefore they had a they had a potency which was derived from San of the soul the fact that the soul was in many ways a physical thing as well as a a

spiritual thing was important so with we're talking life force here I suppose and it was believed that a violent death would condition your spirits uh in a particularly potent way to make the body more useful more valid as medicine and

there were arguments about the spirits being trapped inside the skull so the skull would be the place to to you know to tap the the force of these spirits of of the Soul fascinating wow um as I already mentioned uh you you kind of

write about it early in the book in terms of uh the value that was placed on getting these uh corpses mummies uh from Egypt uh for this uh consumption of of corpse medicine uh and you spend a little bit more time on this later in

the book uh this is uh for me it's on page 227 uh chapter 3 uh you write uh on one hand there were those unmistakable and durable artifacts such as the p pyramids the Great Sphinx and the Monument of chops anyone who has spent

just a few moments among the most fragmentary relics of Egypt in the British museum cannot help but Wonder breathlessly at the sheer scale of a single severed arm or disembodied head Egyptian architecture alone was enough to make some Europeans feel half

consciously insecure about their own technological Powers as when the pioneering egyptologist John Greaves made a peculiar peculiarly torturous effort to prove that even the greatest of the pyramids was in fact not as tall as the Spire of St Paul's which had

itself been destroyed by lightning in 1561 rather less grudgingly the French Baron John Dumont writing from Cairo in February 1691 spoke of those stately monuments which pronounced the ancient kings of Egypt the most powerful monarchs in the universe by comparison

these magnificent cultures which seem to be copies of the Tower of Babel how vastly inferior are the pantheon Coliseum and the capital can you kind of describe how this contributes to this uh rampant desire to get these corpses

mummies from Egypt and how widespread and and if this was something that was profitable and and far-reaching in terms of this this business to get get corpses from Egypt yeah thanks for choosing that passage because it's it's a very useful

one supp what it brings out first of all is is a general sense of Mystique uh a general sense of awe about Egypt and um if you look at something like Shakespeare's a fellow the way that the handkerchief is such a crucial factor

and he he says that you know an Egyptian civil spun it out of sacred worms sacred silk worms and so forth um so it was always an easy choice to use um dramatically fictitiously to to impress your uh readers with something

Beyond ordinary human powers it could blur into magic in that sense and yeah the sheer scale the achievement uh the durability of these incredible monuments there was nothing like them in all the world and and even now when we know the

world better we know that that there really isn't uh there was also a strange factor which it might be forgotten which was that people were biblically fundamental in in the early modern period um and had worked out that the Earth was created um

at uh let me think now um it would have been about 6,000 years I think before uh the the early modern period and they will give you a price day sometimes I say it was of 8 a.m. on a Thursday in

October that God created the Earth the upshot of this was that because they'd got um a a pre- darwinian notion of the scale of of of human evolution and so forth Egypt was almost half as old as as

time itself as as the actual World never mind humanity and in some calculations because it depended how you calculated the age of Egyptian Antiquities Egypt was actually older than the earth so you can see how this kind of OD them as well

and as you say they they were kind of insecure and trying to prove that their monuments were actually bigger than um than the pyramids so yeah had a special status Egypt in uh in people's minds and they were smuggling vigorously uh as

well as trading perhaps sometimes 1586 uh Shakespeare's time John Sanderson uh from Britain managed to get over 600 lb weight of mummies which I imagine would be uh quite a lot of mummies they're terribly heavy given their their

dryness and Sans mummies as you touched on briefly s mummies were people who were recent corpses uh they would be overwhelmed in sandstorms when they're trying to navigate the Egyptian uh deserts for for trade purposes and their bodies would dry out perfectly preserved

perfectly not rot and be very very light as well um in this this climate so you had various sources uh nonetheless the the Egyptian authorities presently managed to clamp down a little bit on um the smuggling the stealing of uh mummies

and and other artifacts as well from the pyramids and the tombs and when this happened you had a big trade in forgent substitutes and you hear these stories about people in dirty back rooms in Alexandria manufacturing uh supposed

mummy from the Flesh of dead lepers Beggars camels using various spices and treatments and baking to to disguise what they're producing and selling it on for for a handsome profit wow fascinating uh the cows uh Our Guest joining us live from the UK Dr Richard

sug uh great book would recommend folks uh pick up a copy um you've touched on uh We've touched on how this was this was widespread it would be incorrect to think that this was something that was just uh ignorant people or poor people

that were doing this this is just some hack uh practice that was going on in terms of corpse medicine and and consumption of human flesh uh for various reasons um you also talk about how this went on for so long that

eventually you have Christianity the rise of Christianity as a more powerful force where more people are practicing this and involved in this that even the evolution and popularity of Christianity did not necessarily interrupt uh prohibit this practice of corpse

medicine cannibalism consumption of human flesh is that is that accurate and why you think the two were not incompatible is accurate and and in fact the two in some ways were very uh compatible uh and all of what he said is

is very to the point that people will try and pass off these things as just barbaric common Superstition of the the uneducated which was nonsense because they couldn't afford a lot of these medicins at all uh and there was a lot

of educated Theory backing these things up a lot of the time however much you tell people that this is a 17th century phenomenon into the 18th century they will branded medieval you know that Quentin Tarantino you s of kind of

medieval I suppose um and it wasn't it didn't get going in its full force and sweep uh until the 16th and 17th centuries and it's probably at its height uh interestingly to take another kind of strand of you know big canonical

culture it was at his height during the start of the Scientific Revolution so with people like Robert Bole the age of people like hook and Newton and all these great scientists and and anatomists so yeah um it's been uh

distorted in its um real history in lots of ways and Christianity uh was by no means in incompatible with it I supposed to give you if you like a kind of precise local memorable example we have a man uh you probably remember from the

book called John Kio a minister in southern Ireland and Kio very respectable ministerial uh Gentile early modern family uh was married to I think a a countess or someone of rank and Kio if if you asked him and he would

dispense Medical Services because uh men of the cloth did this for people in those days they were looked up to in that way uh he would recommend you almost any part of the human body um including excrement menstrual blood and

matter scrapes from the inside of a chamber pot uh and there was virally nothing that Kio couldn't treat um one of his uh particularly impressive uh recommendations was for people suffering from flatulence or um I think it was

nervous pain of the joints they should wear gloves uh but the gloves should be made of human skin so we've got a very Christian figure there uh doing what looks like some quite unchristian things in in southern Ireland in the 18th

century quite late on the other General Point uh about Christianity and corpse medicine is that in many ways it it encouraged it and this brings us back to the soul and these spirits that were supposedly trapped by violent death in a

very agitated form in the in the skull say all of those little details which seem kind of bizarre now about the paracelsian subject for your corpse medicine that he was redheaded he was young perhaps 24 died of a violent death

and he didn't Hemorrhage all these things are actually important so in terms of his age there was a belief that you had a for ordained lifespan that he was cut off long before that lifespan and you actually using in a strange but

real sense all the potency of the life that he'd been denied uh he had red hair so because he had red hair as you perhaps seen a lot of superstition about redhead people in the past he he was believed to have a

special kind of blood so the blood was specially suitable blood being the carrier of the spirits arguably the carrier of the soul and of course popular of these executions and he hadn't Hemorrhage so he hadn't lost the blood he hadn't lost the spirits all of

this was kind of Trapped not just in the blood vessels but in the the matter and tissue of of of the flesh so belief in the the soul as the absolute Ence of the human being um the link between humans

and God but yeah something that was really in the body they were constantly saying was it in the heart was it in the brain was it in the stomach was it moving between the heart and the Brain this this quite physical Soul this

physiologically embedded Soul underpinned corpse medicine and if you like to put it polemically you wouldn't eat an animal body because animal body wasn't worth eating it hadn't c a uh an immortal Soul as far as they were concerned so

yeah this is uh one of the big points about Christianity you could also add that Christianity caused uh a fair deal of violent cannibalism uh amongst Protestants and Catholics as the Christian world was split down the middle by the the reformation and the

wars of religion tore Europe to Pieces the the barbarity of these wars has has been forgotten I think but estimates range to as much as a third of the population of Continental Europe being decimated across um this period up to 18

sorry about to 1648 and famine canni cannibalism occurred because people were starving and literally at their neighbors their children and so forth during these wars uh but also uh what What's known as exoc cannibalism deliberately violent cannibalism tend to be associated with

tribal cannibals who who by no means only practiced that but this aggressive cannibalism to deride your enemies to shame them to invade them in the most extreme degree occurred between Protestants and Catholics they literally at their enemies um over a fire on a

pike perhaps uh and in or there in in France uh there was uh a Protestant who was killed by the Catholics and they uh they literally auctioned off his heart and and the winner put it on a grill and

and at it man lots of those type of uh Grizzly details of the book and and he gives uh lots of information on on what he just laid out in terms of uh Christianity uh being used to foster a lot of this

cannibalistic behavior um before I get some of the folks that dialed in I definitely want to bring this up because I hope at least people that listen to this program take all this information and now so you hold that in one hand and

then you have all of these images that even continues into the 21st century where Europeans white people have branded uh Africans and other indigenous non-white populations all over the world as Savages and cannibals and they even got a lot of uh cartoons with Bugs Bunny

and what have you where it's got some uh black person with a bone in their nose and they're snatching a white person uh they're putting in a big uh black pot and they're going to cook them and eat

them uh and that's used uh many times to justify the practice of racism uh you have uh in your book this is chapter 4 on page 368 you write uh once labeled in this way as a cannibal and effectively

dehumanized tribal peoples in the Americas Africa and a austral Australia austral Asia could be legitimately civilized colonized or outrightly destroyed there is little doubt that cannibalism was both a political tool and a dangerously unstable fantasy in the minds of European Christians during

the decades that followed Christopher Columbus's momentous Landing cannibals were deliberately invented or imagined without justification uh can you kind of reconcile this major bit of HP ocracy where Europeans are branding uh these folks that they say are un civilized and

deserving of being colonized or sometimes just uh out and out genocide against these folks when they are practicing the exact same thing sometimes some folks might even say worse I I can I can do so only partially to be honest uh we come back to the

point that we we were discussing at the beginning that the powerful normalize their hypocrisy they normalize their Injustice their violence and and so forth I I I can't uh reconcile the contradiction between the British Empire as the richest country in the world in

the 1880s and an average of 44 people uh a year starving to death in in London in the midst of all that wealth uh or the fact that the worst slums of the East End in London in that period uh for rent

cost you per cubic foot up to 12 times as much as an apartment in mare I I can't entirely reconcile the fact that we have insane amounts of global warming and catastrophes related there too and the biggest cars the world has ever seen

uh getting no less popular um but to come back to the central points there uh in in this precise topic it was convenient for them to to believe in cannibalism as as you rightly said partly because they could ins slave

uh cannibals the Spanish were particularly big on this and the Spanish uh allegedly perform one of the very worst genocides the world has ever seen in uh in South America when they first got to the new world and

it was also convenient in a very Christian sense for the Protestants as well to believe that they could rescue the good Americans from the bad Americans that the cannibals were the irredeemable other if you like the irredeemable Savage um but there was a

great kind of Colonial Drive uh early on in lots of countries to make this look an attractive place to live to go it was hard to do this it was hard to sell the project early on and um one of the

things you would do is appeal to evangelism so one of the very first Evangelical sermon was preed by was preached by John Don uh in 1622 and um Don is very big on the fact that you must save these people's Souls

that you must save them for Christianity and there was often a sense explicit or otherwise of of saving them from the cannibals the the really evil IR irredeemable uh Native Americans to to try and technically reconcile the the kind of oppositions of

of this impossible equation a little bit more one interesting detail which we think the Europeans used when they were engaged in medical cannibalism they gave medicine a special kind of status which I think is interesting in that medicine's often got that kind of status

it obliges us to accept things if we're doctors sometimes to behave in ways that ordinary people wouldn't and Medicine had this special status summed up nicely by a character called Fuller in the mid 17th century and Fuller said that Mommy

was uh quote good physic but bad food good physic but bad food very explicitly there in just five words the sense that this is this is good as medicine but you don't eat it you're not you're not eating it and he doesn't elaborate on

this as much as we'd like but you get the sense that they were kind of kidding themselves that they weren't eating uh human matter or swallowing human matter in the same way that the cannibals were and I I would say that they were in fact

there's no question of it one little detail that's also interesting in the late 17th century when you look at the drama as you rightly said if you look carefully at words you get some interesting results and over and over

again in the drama of the period these very kind of light-hearted comedies a lot of the time in Charles II's period and onwards you get a phrase about someone being beaten and nowadays we'd say I'm going to beat you to jelly I'm

going to beat you to a jelly and so forth they would say I'm going to beat you into mummy or he's going to beat me into mummy and this is interesting because what it seems to reveal when you

decode it is that Physicians practice with mummy was starting to be seen as degraded by the general public by a popular audience that there was this sense of violence you're doing violence to Nature you're doing violence to the

human body perhaps you're doing violence to your patients who you're making swallow this in some cases people were possibly swallowing this medicine without knowing it the doctor was kind of taking an executive decision if you like so against the kind of very

elevated Alchemy of the soul that we see with these spirits of the body the spirits of the Soul we have this beating into mummy creeping in as as as the 17th century wears on so yeah these are some

of the the strands uh to try and knot together in this this strange puzzle the cows again our guest Dr Richard sug uh see folks that D didn't have hands up uh see if we can get some questions from our listeners again don't

be bashful get your hand up if you have a question you would like to ask uh Dr sug uh our caller at 0586 0586 did you have a question for Dr sug uh your line should be open hello yes ma'am hello oh hi hi

welcome Dr you than I have a question oh you're very welcome um the some of the I guess some neck notes that you just mentioned what was the and I might have missed this but what was the time frame of all

these occurrences and all so or time span and also where exactly did this take place like in what part of Europe yeah that's that's a couple of good questions that the time frame is roughly 16th century to Mid 18th century

uh extending the later period into the late 19th century if you're talking about uh the the blood being taken at scaffolds if you just limit it to Britain you you you get things cutting off around the middle of the 18th

century they turn against these these horrid medicines as they call them then uh but you find the poor in in Bradfords in the north of England in London uh just managing to get hold of a scull from somewhere and grating a little bit

for medicine for a child that's that's perhaps sick with uh with convulsions or or epilepsy uh the other point about geography is it seems to be limited to some extent to the north of Europe that uh it's went on in France uh but it

doesn't seem to have gone on very much in in Italy uh it doesn't seem to gone on a huge amount in Spain so you're mainly talking France Britain these Northern countries such as Scandinavia Austria and uh and Germanic countries

and this has been argued interestingly to be because there was a belief in What's called the animate corpse um that a body didn't simply die like us switching off a light it lingered on with some degree of Vitality for

set periods the longest period was up to about a year after it was you know given its funeral as it were and there was a kind of interim period of about 3 days where it had a particularly strong

amount of Vitality in it and if you look at the the biblical story of Lazarus uh this is a big deal that Christ raises Lazarus because Martha says but Lord he's been dead four days and that that meant something in the early in the New

Testament period And it continued to mean something in um the early modern Christian world and also this is another story but it means something in Vampire culture as well wow oh great okay um and then the last two questions are um is it true

that and I you might have mentioned this as you were speaking but is it true that um that some some people would go around licking the sores of others yeah you're you're right this was uh as far as we know more a medieval

phenomenon but um yeah there was a a famous saintly character who as part of her I suppose kind of saintly Christian self-abnegation would would uh actually you know swallow matter from from the sores of uh uh another nun who was dying

of of of cancer uh and the smell was supposed to be so bad but you know people wouldn't even come near the body normally and yet this was uh a a cracking example of mind over matter but very much Christian mind over over

matter I suppose and an awful lot of that is is big in this topic that you manage to um accept what we consider degrees of you know filth discomfort and some repugnance because you you make them mean something very

different in your mind oh wow okay and then the last question is um do you know if there's any pattern of this continuing today in some parts of of the of the European continent not not Europe so much as um

other parts of the world the the story that I I saw a little while ago was uh and I think it was actually true about two or three years ago uh Korean baby capsu Scandal where there was a belief

in um powdered matter from babies that imagine have been still born um being us used perhaps as a potency uh Aid rather than a typical medical cure as it were and um that that's that's the most striking example I've seen but it went

on late in in uh European culture among the poor it would be surprising if I think there weren't some examples in the in the early 20th century in in Europe okay well thank you so much this is very very interesting I'm learning a

lot thank you Dr s thank you good thank you thank you appreciate that uh the caller that dialed in I guess you're on the flash phone did you have a question for Dr sug your line should be open gree Canna be here yes sir uh

greeting Dr sug um evening I have a couple of questions I remember coming across um uh in in and and a Dutch um dating practice where they would um a man you know they would get dressed up and and

they would go to public autopsies have you come across that information on as going to public autopsies in uh in England or or um and in Dutch uh culture yeah is this what you're describing some something of a fetish

maybe sound of that oh okay you haven't really okay I just want for you yeah I've been trying to look for find it again I haven't really been able to uh find find it seems like it's kind of

hidden um I do have another question this animated corpse uh concept um do we have a name uh do do we know that who came up with that concept yeah it's as far as I know it's a scholar called Katherine Park

Katherine Park um uh discussed this and said that it was peculiar to the the north of the north of Europe um but I think probably the the peculiarity about the north of Europe is is perhaps limited to the educated classes that

that looking at vampires as I've been doing for the last few years now you find there's a very very powerful belief in um an animate corpse in in a lot of traditional culture in Greece uh in Serbia Hungary Russia uh Poland and and

lot of traditional vampire cultures the person's not really dead uh until about 3 days days after the uh the funeral the actual kind of legal death occurs if you like and this is taken so seriously that um in some Romanian funerals they would

take the corpse to the church and the burial in an open coffin quote so that it could see and hear what was going on so anima corpse is a big and and fascinating wide ranging uh topic I remember um reading some like I

know I know not remember but I know har you have you probably heard jokes about people saying that um they're they were uh drinking out of their you know out of skulls of their ancestors or the grandmothers or something like that U I

know wrote about uh skulls made of um I mean cups made of skulls so I think uh that's pretty you know that's that's something you know yeah well it's it's funny you mentioned sculls you're right I think they were actually sometimes

kind of Pious funeral rituals that the cians um a long time ago were supposed to have had a ritual like this where they would keep their father's skull and they would Guild it and so forth and they would have a a a funeral um ritual

where they would drink out of the skull once a year perhaps as a commemoration as possibly in their view quite Pious um but of course A lot of these images of of of skulls have been used to demonize

um African cultures and New World cultures of different periods and one that comes to a lot of people's minds I think perhaps is his heart of darkness um with uh CTS there and you know skulls around his heart in in Conrad's novel

and um this in a way is just a distillation of lots of other kind of images of um these you know pseudo tribes that never really existed probably defined by their treatment of human skulls this is ironic because when

we touched on Ireland uh the thing that was lingering in my mind was a character called Humphrey Gilbert who who terrorized the Irish into submission in Queen Elizabeth's time and um Gilbert would make any Irish supplicants if you

like any people asking for some kind of Mercy or clemency or whatever it was uh come to his tent and they would walk along path uh and and this path would look to have a kind of Rockery border if

you like from a from a distance in fact the path was formed uh on its two sides of of skulls or heads uh depending how old they were of people that Gilbert had recently slain and and Gilbert typically

slew everybody men women and children in a in a given Village which was one reason why there were so many skulls uh available in uh in Ireland uh there were so many skulls available in Ireland apparently into the 18th century that

the English actually had an import Duty on human skulls uh taken from Ireland for for medical purposes until about 1770 something uh did that answer your question 909 yes sir I'm so I have my uh phone muted U I

just wanted to thank you guys uh you know I really have had a hard time formulating questions I thought I had some I thought I was thinking of some but just the topic is is it's got my mind kind of rolling I was wondering Dr

smoke have you come across any type of writing where where where the I'm I'm curious about serial killers cu the see uh um are some of those areas where you found information are serial killers prominent in those areas and I had

another question have you come across any writings where these Europeans talk about being fundamentally lacking in some type of Vitality um I'm curious on I'm going read your book I'm just curious on like the uh you know the the

the real uh reasons why you know this stuff is going on yeah thanks thanks for touching on the the seral like because that isn't in this book but it's something I've just been writing about for the vampire book

um people who did actually drink blood and there there are an alarming number um of of these people um sometimes they just kind of coded themselves as vampires and they would drink one another's blood in a vampire cult for

example Rod Ferell is one you might remember from um um it was Florida I believe where the the murders occurred and I think it was 98 and uh Ferell as far as I know is still in in jail for

these these murders he escaped the death sentence uh but he certainly thought of himself as a as a vampire and he and his friends drank one another's blood uh there have been a a pretty appalling number of murders where the victim's

blood has been drunk uh sometimes in quite kind of um elaborate ways if you like you know Blended up in a blender with uh Coca-Cola and so forth and um yeah one of these cases um it's funny you mention the Vitality because there

was a character who was clearly psychotic he was an American uh serial killer and he he believed that he had some kind of withering condition and he needed to drink blood to to actually cure this this condition um in terms of

the corpse medicine and the Vitality uh I suppose that the best example is this recommendation to drink the blood of a living person and um if you think about what a big metaphor that's been for transgression of all basic human rights

that you don't drink somebody else's blood but a vampire is an oppressor who you know drinks the blood of the living whether it's tenants who can't afford the rent or factory workers that can't live in those conditions and so forth

and they you know they feed from the living this is this is the point about a vampire um so facino on whom we touched uh a big big authoritative intellectual recommended that you you you drink blood if you are aged from young healthy

people uh directly from from their arms appreciate that uh 909 I had one other question I wanted to get in if I see somebody dial in that can get their hand up quickly I'll see if we have time to

get their question in as well um since and since you brought up the the serial killer aspect and a continuation um I know people that listen to this broadcast definitely should be familiar with Kendrick Johnson uh this is a black male he was 17 uh he

was found mysteriously uh dead in a gymm uh down in Georgia uh this happened uh in 2013 unless I'm in error and uh very suspicious circumstances uh the family is is not satisfied with what the police have told them and uh this is ongoing

even right now in terms of trying to investigate and get more information about how this child died uh at school but one of the interesting aspects that just further adds to the horror around all of this is that after the autopsy

was done was discovered that uh his organs had been removed and replaced with newspaper uh this was uh widely reported CNN and and many other major uh news outlets pick this up uh also uh folks who are familiar with lynen Lacy

uh black male also 17 uh who died under suspicious circumstances they ruled it a suicide uh he was found hanging in North Carolina this was just a few months ago and his grave was dug up uh after he was

buried uh this also under suspicious circumstances and and still being investigated uh I'm also reminded since we mentioned serial killers in terms of Jeffrey dmer uh the white male uh he ate and killed uh roughly approximately 17 people most of them black males uh I

think all of them except for I think one non-white males uh that this went on for a long long time we've done programs talking about Mr dmer uh do you see instances where this court corse medicine and this uh cannibalizing of

the humans particularly some of the aspects you talked about individuals that are already being degraded and not seen as as being human do you see any continuation of that uh in particularly the way that uh whites have treated

black people with uh some of the castrations and lynchings where bodies were dismembered uh penis was uh castrated and the sort of things that were happening even things that are happening right now 21st century some of the cases that I just mentioned do you

see a continu of this practice I I think yeah there's two elements to to this topic one is that kind of absolute degradation of the other if you like that you're you're trying to assert your superiority your hatred um whatever it might be by the

way you treat the body and the Invasion of the Body the invasion of kind of fundamental parts of the body particularly it it's interesting that Europeans uh did this to each other and and the most aristocratic Europeans you

know the more aristocratic you were the more more kind of violent sense of Honor you had and the more you defended that sense of Honor by attacks similar to the ones you're describing I mean you know Italian Aristocrat dragging another Italian

Aristocrat around the square at the back of a horse if you now think about the dragging deaths that occurred with cars instead in America um the the the body being dismembered um somebody Goring on the liver while it's probably still hot

uh and this person's Palace being destroyed in in front of their eyes before before they die um these kind of attacks would also involve castrations uh as well and a kind of you know sort of mimicry of cannibalism with that

Goring on the the organs so that kind of attack is is is one thing but you can see parallels with cannibalism and that absolute Invasion the absolute kind of marker of otherness uh the the other one's a bit more complicated but very

interesting and it's goes back to the early modern period when the Spanish um were decimating the New World populations in this horrible genocide which really does seem to have occurred uh one of the things they were supposed to have done

was murder some of the Native Americans for their for their fat in South America because the fat as we we touched on before was used to treat wounds and sores and interestingly in you if you're in a culture where you don't understand

the local fora very much is a very different world to you one constant Factor might be the human body so you have these human bodies with human fat you can treat your sords uh without other medicines and allegedly

the Spanish did this the the neans believe they would be murdered for their fat by the Spanish it's argued that from this there arose a very peculiar demon which still exists in the Andes in Bolivia and Peru to this day as as we

speak uh this demon is called sometimes the pisho sometimes the koseri depending on what part of the Andes you're in uh and it would be often a real living person an actual person could be scapegoated as one of these demons but

the point about the demon is it's a kind of vampire that kills you magically by stealing your fat and it's alleged to sell this F on to Industries for industrial purposes or to Medicine uh and this this is stuck and it it seems

to me is a version of a very powerful myth which I think often most of the time almost all the time is just a myth it isn't actually true but it means something um and the similar case you

see in Central America taken very seriously in Guatemala and other places is that North Americans will steal your children or perhaps adults as well but children are particularly kind of spark point of this this belief uh for their organs for for

their eyes uh for their their kidneys H and they will take them for uh transplants to to North America for Rich uh people to to receive transplants and none of these things have ever been proved they very detail but they

actually do look Mythic the interesting and real thing about them I think is that they encode a sense of what the powerful mean to these minority cultures or oppressed cultures uh whether it's the you know the Indians in 16th century

or the central Americans in in the present day um and all of these people believe there is nothing that the powerful will not do to us and that includes using us for medicine this is a very very powerful

Motif across history across culture cultures whenever somebody has been oppressed to an inable degree this belief will come about that this is what the powerful will do you they will stop at nothing I definitely I hope folks were

paying attention acutely uh to that response um before uh you exit I I had to get in just because of the popularity I think uh if it's not the most popular television program here uh it's definitely top three uh The Walking Dead

uh which is all about zombies and and eating I it get extremely graphic where they're literally eating eyeballs and fingers and you know anything you can imagine goes down on this program all the time as well as all of the vampire

movies and it's not even just walking dead there's so many uh vampire movies not of living dead and and they just keep getting remade and recycled uh some folks would submit hey this seems to be an important aspect of European white

culture because it is so pervasive uh throughout literature you have all these books uh on vampires and mummies and eating flesh and all that and in movies and TV programs that it seems to be a really powerful Motif uh that this is so

reoccurring and so popular not that it it's just out there but it's out there and supremely well watched uh and promoted uh what does this signify about white European culture I suppose one thing it signifies is that we're fascinated with death and

we want to try and handle death in a space that's a bit more uh Fantastical a bit more safe a bit more comfortable and that these figures both of them you're right they seem to rival each other for

the most popular demon of of fantasy or horror fiction the zombie and the vampire both straddle the world between the living and the dead in this pecly uncanny kind of way so I think it's another attempt to engage with death and

to deal with death in in perhaps safe kind of forums and safe little bite siiz if I can use an unfortunate phrase uh pieces um another fascinating thing to me about the vampire particularly which has been my preoccupation for a few

years now the the vampire cultures that I've examined these people were scared to death of vampires they're literally scared to death they they actually died of what's known this is an anthropological phrase Voodoo death where if you believe that somebody can

kill you you will actually die of fear uh this is attested and has a quite precise pattern it tends to occur in between 1 to 3 days uh with a general kind of shutdown and a refusal of food

and water so these vampire victims believe that a vampire come to them in the night and they would die of Terror and a lot of the things that these vampire cultures did look very strange they they would stake living

people they would cut the heads off their dead relatives they would drink the ashes of a vampire's corpse so actually if you do want some very recent cannibalism then go to Romania in the 21st century and you can find people

drinking vampires ashes I'd call that cannibalism um but as strange as the vampire cultures look to us we would to them look screaming mad that we pay staggering amounts of money we take staggering amounts of trouble to conjure

these Terrors into our homes what is wrong with us um I think it's again an example of something that's been normalized so much that we don't really think about it very hard but to to uh a martian or some Serbian from Vampire

terrified Village of the 18th century would look quite crazy actually uh the other thing I find fascinating about the zombie and the vampire is is that sense of rivalry I suppose and you know I think nobody quite knows for sure who's

the most popular um you can imagine putting the two in a boxing ring and scrapping it out you know and who would who would win uh I don't think Ida has a has a weight Advantage but um there's something about

the popular coding of the zombie and the vampire that the vampire has a bit of personality that it has some intention that it has a kind of evil stylishness whereas the zombie is a lumbering kind of automatan um you know it doesn't have

any kind of gourmet qualities isn't going to ask you for a menu before it sinks its teeth into your into your flesh and uh and rends it apart as as we're watching on on TV at the moment so

yeah two endlessly uh fascinating figures that that never seem to lose their popularity I I lose track of the number of films uh on these two I would agree uh I would encourage folks to check out some of uh Dr sug some of

your other material uh excellent uh report uh the trade in human organs Return of the Body Snatchers uh this is published in 2011 uh some of you as well as the book that we uh have discussed today just lots of information uh

couldn't cover everything in the program but hopefully uh we'll peque your interest to do a little more research uh when is the new the latest material you said you're also doing a book that's coming out on vampires is that coming

out sometime soon yeah I hope it's going to come out uh in uh probably Autumn of uh of 200 15 uh I'm very keen to get a trade publisher for this book um bearing in mind that the earlier book was quite expensive I

like this to be a genuinely popular book and accessible book uh and a good trade publish I think will'll keep the price down we'll make sure this can reach out to to a big audience uh which I I hope

it will have so yeah it should be coming perhaps round about Halloween would be ideal next year fitting fitting fitting right on um before I let you go I I definitely got to make sure I I get this

in this is uh on 403 where you were talking about uh former uh George Bush George bu the second time around uh George uh H bush uh this is on four3 of the book where you write uh uh and

you're talking about how we can uh dehumanize other people uh when we get into this kind of us and we sort of thing you were Us and Them sort of thing where you said uh myself am occasionally aware that I have had this kind of

attitude towards George Bush and the strange assemblage of creatures who once voted him back into Power I did not want to eat them I'm a vegetarian and mindful of my health but I did have a considerable difficulty in persuading

myself that they were quite real that they were complex three-dimensional beings who believed in themselves quite as vigorously as I do and I read that and I said now come on now uh doct S I feel like uh people people do that

pretty frequently in terms of viewing uh George Bush's Behavior with the war in Iraq and and going and pursuing this military Adventure killing a lot of people and saying that what he did is an anomaly uh and I just say come on now

let's if we either we can go all the way back we can look at the history of the British Empire uh we can look at the behavior of the United States and France during Vietnam we can even look at

Margaret Thatcher and her labeling uh Nelson Mandela a terrorist for his efforts to overthrow AP parde uh that this behavior is pretty consistent I don't really see anything that George Bush did as being uh that different or that much of a deviation from what I

have seen pretty consistently from white people in power around the world am I am I talking crazy uh you're not sadly you're not at all it's it's been a very uh sad history very similar and and very much backed up

by by Christian morals a lot of the time you know driven by Christian ideology or with a kind of Christian coating over the top of it uh it's uh it's too grimly familiar I suppose the the technology and the ability has has become more

powerful which is regrettable but uh but what people would do to one another um in the the 17th century uh as as I said Protestants and Catholics would would literally eat one another for U ideological rage if you

like right on wanted to make sure I got that it as well not that I'm a fan of George Bush but just uh can't really say that he's that much of a deviation from anything that I'm accustomed to seeing

uh on the planet uh again uh the book mummies cannibals and vampires uh published in 2011 uh it is a weighty book but it has lots of fascinating tidbits uh you got to hear quite a bit on the program today very much

appreciate you spending a bit of your evening with us Dr sug we will be uh looking forward to the book on vampires coming up in Autumn of 2015 and again just want to thank you for sharing some of your time and expertise with us this

evening thank you it's been a really great interview really enjoyable thank thank you for for fixing it up and for the questions absolutely uh I'm I didn't look at my switchb we had one other caller with a question do you have time

for one more question from a call that's fine just one more is is fine thank you yeah for sure my apologies uh Mr demry for uh did see your hand did you have a question for Dr Su before he

departs Mr der4 you there sir did you have a question yes can I be heard yes sir okay um sorry for tuning in and late uh my question is concerning the uh series of movies that are out called

hostile and it's I think it's one two maybe three of them where uh in Europe you know vacationing people H themselves druged and their body parts missing is it any truth to uh that premise that the movie was based

on could could you remind me of the name of the film again so the Lin's a little bit bit unclear just just the name of the film okay could you relay that to him guys it's hastle hostile hostile hostile

I've got it now thanks I I know the film yeah um it's interesting that there's another film which you might know it's a good one um I think it's British by Steven friers called Dirty pretty things which takes this as its premise in

London that that people are found in a bathtub uh full of ice with a telephone beside them uh and they're told call this number because you've just lost your kidney you know that that this is a kind of peculiar medical abuse uh which

isn't a a murder you survive but you you lose one of your organs um as far as I know this this this hasn't been proven in very many cases there's a lot of reports of this all across the world um

and as was said before a lot of the times seems to have a different kind of truth to it and an important truth which is that people have come to believe under system of Oppression that there is nothing the powerful will not do to us

and this includes taking taking our organs it's not always the powerful it's sometimes uh an attractive woman who seduces you in a bar buys you a drink your drugs you wake up without your kidney whatever it might be the the one

case that I I'd recommend looking into if you have time um is in in Kosovo I think this is still being investigated by International courts where a character um called use of on May um I think he was a Turkish surgeon uh he

became known as Dr vampire or Dr vulture uh on the basis that he was accused of of running um an illegal organ ring uh in which uh people were were perhaps actually murdered specifically for their organs being shot in deliberate ways not

to damage the organs that were required and the large amounts of money were were were changing hands for this uh in Kosovo a few years ago this is this is still a subject of Investigation as far as I know but it be looking

into fasc did that okay thank you very much for answering my question and thanks for Dr by program uh thanks for taking guys glad we could get you in uh thank you gentleman and a scholar Dr s appreciate

you hanging in to get that extra question uh again thank you so much for sharing your time and we will uh be on the lookout for future scholarship from you enjoy the rest of your Wednesday evening Dr sub many many thanks hope we

can talk again thanks absolutely take care good night good night Sir the cows fascinating fascinating uh I'm going to see if I can uh get my hands on uh the article uh that I shared uh that he also authored uh the trade in

human organs uh return of the Body Snatchers that's another movie as well see if I can get my hands on that uh this is from uh 2011 uh that this issue came out if I uh am able to uh put my hands on it uh

before we go off air I'll just I'll post it on uh Facebook uh I can I guess take this moment to give a a shout out one of uh our listeners uh longtime listeners who has helped in a myriad of different

ways in in getting uh the program on the air and what have you but uh she uh helps me out getting access to uh some University uh libraries uh cuz they always have uh just wonderful wonderful uh resources and materials just always a

hoot to be able to go and dig through uh their archives to see all the goodies uh that they have uh but if I can uh put my hands on it I'll uh I will share so that other folks can benefit as well uh with

that in mind I just want people uh to to keep number one Henrietta LAX we've been reading The Immortal Life of of Henrietta LAX in terms of white people stealing genetic material and some of the assertions that were made uh

throughout the book from the different black people talking about the I don't even want to say rumors but the allegations that John Hopkins and or other white people were stealing uh black children Andor black people period uh and doing experiments on them doing

research on them taking their organs uh that that has come up repeatedly and why many of the black people had uh skepticism uh about going uh to the doctor because they did not trust that white people would do the correct thing

uh that they might go to the hospital uh and leave without everything that they had when they entered the hospital uh and not by their own choosing uh that for one uh again Kendrick Johnson this is not something that we're talking

about from a 100 years ago 50 years ago this is something that happened uh 2013 uh I mean just heinous atrocity piled on top of one another not only his uh death under susp icious circumstances where that still has not been adequate

adequately explained and then his organs being missing uh and this is not just some Wildey conspiracy theory this is documented as I said CNN uh reported this and had this on the front page where his organs are missing and been

replaced with newspaper uh nobody can give an adequate explanation for that either and I think there were some of the same allegations around uh Trayvon Martin uh just to kind of keep that in mind uh I'll get the sound clip in this

is uh from Hidden Colors 3 three uh where you hear a myriad of people just kind of giving more information that I think you should you should just kind of hold everything that you just heard from Dr sug hold that in one hand and then

have this uh in the other uh we'll get the clip in and then uh if folks have any anything that they'd like to share from what they heard from Dr sug we can make time for that as well but this is

from Hidden Colors three uh and just talking about the ongoing practice of white people cannibalism organ harvesting 21st century [Music] body parts they've been selling body parts this is that's old that's not new that's why black people don't like to go

to hospitals they go to get their toes clipped their fingernails clipped and they wake up and their foot's gone they've been utilizing the organs of black people for years the organs and the the body parts and the members of African-American people and

that goes back to George Washington there's a longtime myth that George Washington had wooden teeth we we heard that myth growing up in school the reality is George Washington did not have wooden teeth because Common Sense will tell you you can't put wood in your

mouth it gets wet and wet wood is useless what George Washington did he had the teeth of his African slaves yanked out of their mouths and he made Dentures out of these teeth and they're on display his Dentures are on display

at museums right now and that just goes to show the history of African people having our bodies mutilated and our members disfigured and mutilated for the best betterment and benefit of the dominant Society in America at least at

least 2500 black people go missing every year at least never to be found again not killed you just don't find them again why doesn't that number ever go down how can you constantly have the same amount of people are you trying to

say the same Killers go out and murder the same amount of people every year no somebody has taking black people off the street there's been stories on this kidnapped by the government kidnapped by organ traffickers drive by shooting is

organ stealing I'm worth $50 million and I need a kidney you know kidneys are pretty sensitive you got to find somebody who really got the kidney that matches yours you think I'm going to wait till somebody die for me to get

one if I don't get one soon I'mma die so guess what I'm going to do I'm going to pay somebody to go research people okay let's go look at all the black organ donors let's look at all the black

people who got organ donor on their driver's license which is why I'm not a friend of that I said you want to donate your orgers put it in your will say that if I die this can go to my family my

relatives my friends or whomever but when you put it on your license I believe you make yourself a public Target and so what do they find we got a guy in Los Angeles he has the same blood type as you same kidney type as you

likely he ain't he healthy though he ain't likely to die no time soon he don't know you so he ain't going to give you no organ for free so guess what we're going to do we're going to arrange

a murder that makes it look like he was in a car accident we're going to arrange a murder that make it look like he committed suicide so the next thing you know you coming out the gas station boom

you get hit by a Mac Truck you dead G you get taken to the funeral home your family come to the funeral they don't know that before your body got laid to rest a little hole was poked and they

pulled your kidney out context of white supremacy uh modernday corpse medicine um I would not minimize that take that lightly um and it's not to scare people or what have you it's just hey this is what it is this is the

system of racism white supremacy uh it's well documented undeniable uh the lynchings and castrations where they were cutting off uh the breasts the genitalia fingers ears tongues of black people black children black females black males that's well documented

that's undeniable and that's this is something that again this is not ancient history we don't have to go back as far as the material some of the material that Dr sug was referencing we don't have to go back uh to the 17th century

uh we don't have to go back to 1700s we don't need to do all that we're talking about things that happened some of these people are still alive right now things that were happening in the 1950s 1940s 1960s even we don't have to go way way

back really if you want to talk about it James Bird Jr 1990s we're not talking about ancient history so if this is well documented and again widespread read this is not uh a one-time anomaly thing where this was

repeated over and over and over and white people bragged about this and took photographs of this and shared it and were proud of this behavior and we got uh this black person's fingers or penis or whatever the case may be stored and

saved and kept it in a little jar to be proud of why would you think that this uh Behavior would be discontinued uh at some point this seems to be a core essential aspect of white culture white behavior that I don't really see any

deviation I don't see where this is has gone anywhere if anything it's just that they don't get to brag as publicly about this sort of thing uh as often but again Kendrick Johnson again lenon Lacy I don't think

that aspect got as much attention but his body uh his corpse being dug up after he was found uh mysteriously hanging and they just s all suicide moving forward just something that I would say keep in mind uh for folks who

who want to think about as I always say what does it mean to be white uh many of the core fundamental aspects of what it means to be a white person they are unchanging they are stable uh you can

look and see the same behavior patterns the same practices uh Century through Century uh where it just does not change uh they might try to do a better job of pretending that they have evolved and they've moved on and they don't do that

sort of thing anymore say do not be fooled do not be fooled uh last tidbit uh to just kind of hammer it home uh Mr neie Fuller Jr he was on the program this is uh years back um we did the

whole program talking about uh Jeffrey dmer right on the same subject matter uh Robert dorek uh he wrote a biography on Jeffrey dmer uh and he also wrote A or not a biography but he wrote about uh Jerry sanduski and the whole thing at uh

Penn State white people uh sexually abusing all of these young boys uh it was some speculation that quite a few of them were uh black children uh where he was allowed to sodomize and rape these children with impunity for years and

years and years uh the documentary that just came out Happy Valley uh but Mr Fuller was talking to him uh some years back I think this is 2010 uh years before the Penn State thing even came out and uh he gave his comments on uh if

he was to give a a general view about the essence of racism white supremacy and he said it's not Hitler it's Jeffrey dmer I thought that would be fitting uh for this program so we'll get that in and once that concludes if anybody has

thoughts that they want to share on what they heard from Dr sug and uh the information will'll have ample time but this is Mr neie Fuller Jr giving his views on Jeffrey dmer and a lot of what we heard from today for generalities I

generally say that if you want the ultimate expression of white supremacy and the white supremacist mentality and you want to put it in the form of one person that I would name and that's something I very seldom do it would be

Jeffrey dmer H he's the ultimate expression of white supremacy everything that he was doing working in a chocolate factory the whole nine yards and storing black male bodies in canisters of and alcohol and whatnot and got them in the

refrigerator cannibalism and all of that and calm very methodical even when questioned by the law enforcement officers very calm annibal Lector you [Music] know the ultimate what looking wasn't he with young boys too yeah he was I mean I forgot how many

bodies is you what you know something like 20 or something like that you can probably look it up on the computer Jeffrey dama you know he didn't even try to protect him once he went to prison he was so

embarrassing to everybody I guess I mean you know everybody who really thinks like he do is they warned him out of the way the black guy killed him in prison right I remember that yeah see and I think he was set up to be

dead cuz you know he was considered a monster so he's just as calm as he can be you know very methodical very meticulous with the work on time excellent worker working in a Chocolate Factory looking at chocolate being

churned all day then out there trying to churn chocolate at [Music] night the ultimate expression Roman Empire Black Death Associated black uh uh anti-sex with nonwhite people Associated ultimately with death as being the ultimate gather them up befriend

them to the extent that is saying that hey I'm going take you a black male and make you ultimately effeminate and then kill you first chance I get and he ate them too didn't they wasn't that his thing

yes and eat the bodies eat the body parts got got them in the got the body parts uh in wrappers in the refrigerator and got other body parts I mean they didn't know what to do with I mean cuz it got so many and got them in

big drums full of acid and whatnot keep them right there not somewhere way out in the woods somewhere keep them right there in the apartment and then go out and gather up some more you know bringing them in one

at a time wow he probably you know you can probably look his name up on the computer and get the whole story I mean from A to Z it written several books on it m i I had newspapers and on it and

all like that but that's my statement that he's the ultimate expression of that type of mentality not Adolf Hitler Jeffrey dmer wow right wow CU this is this this is what ultimately this white white white supremacy at his at his greatest is that

particular aiming at the black male feminize the black male and then take him and kill him after that mean not not enough just to just to make him into a thing but then methodically and with an expression of affection

killing because the black males he was picking up were very trusting of him he here's a nice white guy I mean you know he's buying me drinks and whatnot friend me and you know he ain't calling me [ __ ] and wan to drive Drag Me by you

know and and burn crosses on my line what not no he wants to take me to his house oh he's okay oh yeah there got to be some reason why a person would even think like that but the evidence shows that such people

do exist wow never even heard anybody uh mention Jeffrey dber as you know know a racist or racist suspect or anything well he would be a racist suspect just by being white according to the code he's able to

be a racist so he probably is one that's code according to according to what I've written yes sir I stick with that if a white person in the system of white supremacy is able to be a racist he or

she probably is one period that doesn't change until the end of white supremacy that's the criteria for that so that's a given based on what logic not panic not irrationality or whatever that means not you know just being super judgmental up front no

that's logical it's logical to to believe that because it's dangerous not I'm quite sure those fell sitting around Jeffrey arm probably thought you know hey this guy can't be a racist you know he likes to hang out with black guys you

know all the time you know white guys around here I mean you know us you know he he stands out he don't even care what what right guys think he sits over here and drinks with the black guys he's

okay I didn't know that uh he worked in a chocolate factory either I i' heard the story but what in a chocolate factory standing right there churning chocolate all day long and a whole Sigman fraud have a PE day with

that one and Dr wellson that's right what she had to say too well she already has wow it didn't mesy her at all Wow Wow and his coworker say hey you know easy going easy get along no problem give nobody no problem at all

always on time good worker always did his job very efficiently a systematic Mass killer and a cannibal a white cannibal you know traditionally they always say black people were cannibals m y and nobody would suspect them no suspicion at all from the this is why

this is why got away with it so long got away with it I mean you know I mean they were looking all around I mean you know hiding in plain sight Law Enforcement Officers talking to him he's saying yeah you know strange

things happen you know got to be alert these days wow wow n never was on the suspicion list like one so-called Asian guy you know not white ran out in the street flagged down a law enforcement car Jeff Dominus SED right out behind

him and said oh he's a little delusional would not you know don't pay any attention to him he's a nice guy you know I'll look out for him he's running from Jeffrey D managed to escape from him and ran out in the

street and flagged down the car and the law enforcement officers helped Jeffrey dama take him back in the house wow cool cool me you know like ice under Fire you know didn't show the least bit of nervousness he wound up dead too the guy

same guy that's how they find C Jeffrey D but not because of that but that that put you know that made him suspicious cuz he was reported missing wouldn't I I think I think that's how went down but

the main thing was people started you know getting these olders in the place where he live these strange oders where are these oders coming from all those bodies that there he's carving up W that is crazy that is

crazy so I just use him of course there are other people who have done things similar and all like that but I use Jeffrey D because all with the exception of I think the first person they had him

on record was a person who was white but that must have been old JT type thing M as on the job training you know a white sacrifice and then all the rest of them was not white H was it mostly uh black males or mostly

black males H as far as they know the last one was the LA ocean you know a nonwhite male from La I think he maybe about 17 years old 18 something like that wow yeah so it's easy he's he's an

interesting study but I say that he's the ultimate expression because see that's basically what the white supremacists do with that racism when you take it to its in degree it's destructive and goes right into in the most destructive Acts or

something that's sexual anti-sexual that's why I put in my book long before there was a jeffre what it has to do with hey this is why you know in back in the old days wasn't enough to Salen a black guy no hey that

ain't that that ain't you know hey that's too much like you know you feel like you lynched might have lynched a man you don't want to do that I mean you know take his sex organs out you know

got to do that you're just don't hang a [ __ ] you know cut all the sex organs [Music] up not enough to kill him that's too much like killing a man I mean you know hey you don't want to

leave you don't no don't don't even want to think in that direction that this creature is a man that's competition so make him a thing some type of creature but we we can't stand that idea of a black

male being a man physically and mentally those two together no boy maybe girl thing but man no that's why the code is all about aiming for the production Universal Man Universal woman that's in the textbook that's ultimate go with all of the

characteristics and it you know in the next book I just try to list a whole bunch of the characteristics I mean first of all a person that believes in Revelation of Truth got to start with that one and

definitely be Against Racism and against any kind of Injustice I mean that's these are these are characteristics of Universal Man and Universal woman that will fit the character of the universe itself when it is not tampered with context of white supremacy Mr neie

Fuller Jr uh folks want to support his effort uh you can visit produce justice.com produce.com you can get the word guide code book both definitely uh recommend his material I know folks have heard him uh talk tainment uh as well as many

times that he's been a guest on the program but uh Mr Neely Fuller Jr uh before I get to some of the folks that dialed in just a couple quick points um number one I did publish or post rather

uh Dr Sugg's article Return of the Body Snatchers uh I have it uh on my Facebook page uh should be with the link so you can uh check it out uh shout out to nonwhite female as I said hooking me up with the resources so

I can access uh University libraries they have great material uh couldn't find it online but I was able to access it through the university uh resources so I have shared uh you can take it as a PDF uh and check it out if you are so

interested uh I was reading the article uh in the break there and uh in my view this is one of the ways that Dr sug might have been practicing racism both in the article and on the program uh in

the article and on the program he in my view minimized uh this the this Looting of human organs and genetic material and saying that these are rumors or these are urban legends or myths uh however it was phrased uh and I I completely reject

that that is not the case at all as I said there's there's documented evidence however you want to look at it if you want to categorize what was happening with black people being lynched uh throughout the 20th century and beyond

uh even uh after the Civil War in the 19th century if you want to categorize that as organ theft and cannibalism so be it and or if you want to ride right on into the 21st century and you can include

Henry edxon that as well right on into the 21st century uh these Jeffrey dmer type incidents this is not anomalous Kendrick Johnson this is not anomalous uh do Mr Scotty Reid found of the black talk radio network he posted two reports

uh you can check it out uh it's right below uh the event for this page on my Facebook page uh but he has one it's Israeli doctors harvesting organs for international trafficking ring and the next one is Israelis forerunners of

organ trafficking these I suspect are white people that are doing this NPR just had a report on uh it was maybe the last two weeks it was this month where they stopped a couple now they were uh so-called Asians not black but they

stopped them because they had a black child that they had adopted and they stopped them because they thought that they might have had this child to steal loot organs from this black child this is widespread uh this is not just uh a

thing of rumor or people are just making up stuff uh these unfounded allegations no this is happening this is documented and I just want to get that out because just from the tone of the report uh Return of the body snatches it's in my

opinion making it sound as though that although you might see an isolated case of this here or there this is not widespread these are just myths and rumors and again that in my opinion is not true and that seems to be a staple

uh in terms of something that white people do in my opinion to practice racism to minimize the heinous terroristic behavior of whites to try to make it seem like you might have an isolated incident of this here or there but this

is not widespread and endemic of what white people do worldwide uh the latter in my opinion that is the case this should not be looked at as just some random incident this is standard systemic behavior on the part of whites

and I'm sure we probably only know the tip of the iceberg uh I also wanted to get in uh because he mentioned Quinton Tarantino it's in your face all the time that he mentioned him specifically and saying uh getting medieval uh the line

after uh bing R's character the black male had been anally sodomized by white enforcement officer but even in Quinton Tarantino's films you see a lot of these same characteristics uh in terms of uh I won't say cannibalism but definitely in

terms of all this Gore and flesh and taking body parts you see that in Pulp Fiction where it ends where a black male has his brains blown out and they're talking about they're talking about want you to pick up all those pieces of skull

that said specifically which is right in line with what he talked about on the program today where they're going and taking people's skulls and what have you and doing this now they don't make a trophy out of it and what have you but I

mean they're spending all of this time picking up skull fragments and blood and all this other Gore and what have you it's right in your face and I would say I'm very familiar with Quinton Tarantino's body of work uh he has

another film uh it's a a two-parter Death Proof where it's got the zombie element there's some sort of chemical or what have you that white people have released and it's turning people into zombies and they're going and eating

people cannibalism consuming flesh and before you even get to all of that they have a white male cuz Bruce Willis I think is in it but they have a white male uh they have been going around and stealing people's uh genitals and they

have a scene where they have a big Ziploc bag uh and it's got all these uh genitals uh in the bag big bag full of testicles uh and it gets to one point in the film where the bag of testicles

spills out on the ground and a guy falls on the ground and the testicles end up going in his mouth now this is in Quinton Tarantino's work as I said he mentioned them on the program now I could just look at Quinton Tarantino

body of work that is a consistent theme not just the gore but this worshiping isn't that in Jango Unchained uh where isn't that Leonardo DiCaprio where he has a black male skull where he's kept it as a prize isn't that right in Jango

untain uh Unchained and then he crushes the skull and he cuts his hand in the process and gets blood on his hand and he smears it across Carrie Underwood's face it's right in your face like nothing it has not changed at changed at

all this is white culture this is white people the gore the blood the cannibalism uh the making trophies of human flesh it's right in your face all the time it is unchanging it should not be venomized we should recognize it for

what it is this is something that they enjoy doing uh and even in a compensatory fashion because I did think it was hugely important when he talked about the uh insecurity that they felt in relation to uh black people uh

Africans uh and doing some of this to compensate where they wanted to get these corpses and bodies from the continent uh to ingest uh to to grind up the skull and ingest it as a powder or a drink or to get parts of the Flesh and

what have you to uh consume it I am sure that that continue even the consumption part I suspect that that might be one aspect that we just have not been told about in terms of them not just castrating a black male or removing

fingers ears tongue teeth and all of that I am certain that there was some consumption of these body parts along the way as well that we just haven't been told about uh that you don't you don't get everything you just have to

kind of uh figure it out as you go but I'm sure that was an integral aspect of it as well um the uh the inferiority that they talked about I thought that was a major uh Welling moment as well

when they were talking about the size of the pyramids uh and being upset and trying to go through all this trouble to prove that the pyramids weren't as tall as some of the structure and edifices that whites in Europe had constructed uh

major reminded me of uh Dr wising moment um let's see anything else that I wanted to make sure I got in before uh get the calls um oh he mentioned Rod frell the Vampire killer uh there's a documentary

uh on Mr frell I posted that on the page as well it's about an hour you can check it out it's on YouTube it's titled Rod feral the Vampire killer uh it's full documentary where he was going out

uh drinking blood and what have you and again I would in my opinion that is just standard aspect of racist white culture where he said he was releasing it on Halloween I think I've said pretty consistently that no holiday no holiday

is more representative of what it means to be a white person white culture what white people are all about the essence of what it means to be white than Halloween I looked on uh my block and I live around

almost exclusively white people I looked up and down my street white people they went hard they went ham for Halloween I saw way more decorations and they were way more elaborate to celebrate Halloween than for Christmas now there

are most of the houses they do have up Christmas decorations and what have you but it was a whole lot more for Halloween they had the uh uh skulls and uh bones and skeletons and all that stuff just worship of death they had all

of that stuff all over the ywn and Y excuse me on the cob just every aspect of it the blood and gore and everything they had that stuff up way in advance like Christmas it looks like everybody just kind of did a a lackluster effort

uh to celebrate Christmas but they really get excited for the gore and I guess I can end with I was trying to think of the next book that we were going to do for the study session because we'll be done with Henry ATX

this Friday uh American Sniper that's being released on Christmas Day just like d Jango unchanged I said pay attention to that uh it's become a tradition now they release a big film on December 25th you should pay attention

to what film that is this is a film about a white killer now this is supposed to be Christmas I thought we were supposed to be about uh the Lord's day this is Jesus's birthday I thought that's what they say that's what

December 25th is supposed to be about we're not releasing a movie that's anything about uh being Pious being Christian we're releasing a film about a killer someone who is recognized in his book American Sniper where he says they

say this is the most successful killer in the history of the Navy I think he he brags about having killed over 160 people that's what he's got on the front of the book for American Sniper a gun this is what we want to worship and

celebrate that is white people that is white culture killing and ostensibly it should be understood killing nonwhite people especially black people uh I pretty much decided that is going to be the next book cuz I want to read that anyway uh for the study

session but the fact that that's coming out on December 25th uh pretty much has sealed the deal I think that's going to be the next book uh and the fact this guy died too he was shot and killed we

were having Dr rasion on the program and I think he was shot and killed at a gun range no less uh this happened last year in February of uh 2013 but at any rate uh I will stop there I think I covered

most of of what I wanted to get in I might have a tidbit here or there if any of the folks that are listening in had anything that they uh wanted to share what they heard from uh Dr sug if

anything didn't make sense if you were confused anything stood out uh feel free you can get a hand up uh the caller at 0586 should be with us uh 909 Mr demy 4 and we had a caller from a uh block

number uh just got a hand up since we didn't I heard from everybody else I didn't hear from the caller from a block number uh did you have something you want to share since we hadn't heard from you yet person from a block number yes

um good evening Gus this is um the good evening everyone else uh I apologize I did not hear um the presentation uh by the guest um hello can I be heard yes ma'am oh okay but oh it just brings back

some you know Eerie memories um you know because I worked in the medical field and the scariest thing to me besides you know having you know got well obviously I'm I will have to admit actually I was really traumatized you know um I worked

in surgeries and um you know intensive care and and research and all that and and I won't name the facilities although I I really wish I could because they're very prominent but it's so hard um for people to um believe some of these

stories uh I just I could I can understand to some extent because um I was kind of shocked myself even though you know because I was young and I had you know gotten well I had always kind of like done some medical training even

lab work when the time I was um a teenager in high school you know but I was just like totally traumatized by seeing the things that I saw and in fact you know some of the stuff still haunts

me but I couldn't you know say anything really you know and it's the thing that bothers me as much as what transpires in that regard is trying to um you know get people to um believe it you know um

that's what really really bothers me because I feel like okay we have a obligation to um you know to pass this information on and I wonder okay what what are we doing wrong uh that we're not able to get enough people maybe

maybe they're just silent maybe there's more people who accept it and believe it than we really perhaps think but I mean I guess because we get socialized into believe in like I was all medical fi that's is great work and these people

are you know they're kind of like Head and Shoulders above not just in terms of intellect but you know the greater good I mean all that kind of I guess brainwashing you might say but it is just scary to see um you know know the

the attitude um you know towards the human body in particular the body of people of colors but I I mean I remember sharing you know some of the events with my husband you know about what I was experiencing and he finally said well

you're it's like you're working in a death camp and in fact you wanted me to um I guess to to quit you know but I'm like no I got to get these skills I have to get all the skills that I can I have

to learn to be um like them and that I don't let it bother me and it's almost like I had to have almost like a take on another personality to be able to deal with some of the things that I saw you

know I I I remember one case in particular where I'm actually standing there and I'm there's a um you know um uh black male uh patient this like years ago going to show you how traumatizing some of this stuff was and they were W

really doing what needed to be done I mean I knew this by this time I had enough experience and I just kind of like you know you learn to kind of like have a I guess what they call a clinical

disposition you you learn over years not to be emotional about stuff and so I was like giving them data about you know the changes that was going on and I knew what the interventions were supposed to be and they were like oh yeah uhhuh okay

and I'm like in my mind it was like it was like my mind was kind of like split I'm like okay I'm seeing this but I don't believe it I mean I know I told them I gave them the right information I

know what they're they generally do and they're supposed to do and they're kind of like letting this guy die you know and and that's kind of like what happened you know but you can't well I guess you can to some extent now but

these are things that happen because like who do you tell how do you convey this kind of information to you know people you know press people about what the system is really about I think people are probably a lot more conscious

now maybe all this stuff that's going on and there's some you know we have put out some good books about it but it's I think it's very hard um for people to understand exactly what the medical system is really about what it's really

like and the type of personalities that are involved in this I mean I was just you know even like if you look at the curriculum that you're given in terms of you know what you study when you're going through this field uh it's kind of

like all I don't know who like someone else says it's all towards like everything else is geared towards white supremacy domination you think okay well I need to learn this and learn that and you find out hey this is mostly like

about like research it's really not like about like helping people per se you know and um yeah that's kind of like what I wanted to say kind like briefly it is like you said nothing has changed it's gotten more sophisticated with the

technology and I see more and more um they're being very selective about uh people of color being involved in so it's getting very Tech it's very technical of course now so it's not enough to whatever you get in college or

gradate School medical school you have to get the training on the job because it's te the technology is you know so much more advanced and it's TR it's expanding so much but yeah this is their personality and this is what's promoted

I mean like you don't ask question if you want to stay in the field you know you have to kind of keep your mouth shut you got to be unemployed that's the way it goes absolutely um some of the other

folks who dialed in who I hadn't heard from uh yet the caller at 0747 you should be with us uh and um estop you should also be with us as well did you two have anything you wanted to make

sure you got in what's going on G white supremacy this is Mr Hill I know I haven't called in such a long time so I wanted to see how you was doing right poorly oh is that uh Mr Mr Hill from like way back

like 2009 yeah way back wow when you first came on that is that is crazy good to hear from you sir yes did you have a uh uh Dr uh talking about uh a group of white people youa to young

black kids or M and having sex on top of them uh we did um I didn't bring that up today but that is another excellent illustration because these were young white people uh these were not you know the C and Bundy or what have you but

absolutely I think that case happened uh last year where they killed black person and then had sex on top of the corpse yeah Dr Dr Tommy Curry uh said something about that absolutely so uh would you call that what you call a

ralistic or or type of thing or that something that way would do all the time I I'm of the opinion that it it h i don't think that that is anomalous I think that it's probably something that we just don't hear about uh very often

but I've said consistently uh if you pay attention to a lot of movies I have seen that where killing a black person seems to function as some sort of aphrodesiac for racist uh now I raised this port with Dr wising and she didn't you know

on the program and she didn't seem to uh to think that it Beed out but you know hey that's fine my view I've seen it consistently uh in films this uh just where they kill a black person and that

seems to uh fact I can even think of some specific scenes where they will go they'll kill a black person and then the very next thing will be a sex scene between a white person and a white man

and a white woman where they've killed a black person uh I've seen that bear out uh consistently uh in films where I think just and just sometimes it's just the act of violence period uh seems to be something that is like yes we need

that for the sex drive for racist man and racist woman uh racist man racist woman violence blood yes that is you know that is that is sex that that makes it that's like Viagra for us makes it possible for us to to have sexual

intercourse like you know mon ball and green M things that come to to my mind and uh and Star Trek uh the one new one I I forgot the young lady's name uh the black young lady that played in uh Star

Trek uh I didn't see the latest one uh the I haven't seen the latest one I just seen the uh what else even uh Quint terino uh especially Quint terino movies they're nothing but Gore what's the uh Zoe Salanda I think

that's the one you're talking about she was in Star Trek zo Salanda yeah yeah Cowell yeah post fiction is uh is one for me absolutely absolutely all of his works really in my opinion it's just about killing and as

some of the films that I mentioned earlier but yeah the guest mentioned uh Pulp Fiction that was the film he was referencing when he was talking about getting uh getting medieval uh about it and he's in he's in the UK uh mind you

just to show the the global nature he seemed to be very informed about Walking Dead uh as well as uh The Works of Quinton Tarantino that it's Global this is not just uh something that with regards to America that that uh racist

entertainment white culture is is worldwide uh where white people all around the world appreciate and recognize Quinton Tarantino's work as well as The Walking Dead it's uh ubiquitous even uh blaz uh blade uh with uh Wesley Snipes Wesley Snipes and

uh you don't remember that one hello with Wesley uh with wesle s yes I saw blade yes sir yeah with uh she uh was in that movie uh L was W sm's mother and she got bitten by the white guy they actually

when they killed him so that was one yeah so I don't understand these uh these uh uh vampire moves anyway oh by the way I was looking at uh YouTube and [ __ ] Lee is supposed to be

doing uh documentary on blood a documentary on what on blood okay and he's going to go into a whole thing about how people use blood or have drink uh have a necklace about I don't know when it's suppos

coming out but he was doing one of those uh those uh things ask things that you ask for money to to do the do the film right and one of his uh things he wanted to do was about

blood I don't know when it's going to come out but it's kind of strange for African-American uh directed to do something about blood so he said it's supposed to come out sometime this year next year something like that so we look out forward h

appreciate that I'll uh post it once I get uh link for folks um did uh s do you should be with us as well did you have something you wanted to make sure you got in yes sir um just about the um organs missing

out of um cavas or corpses or even individuals that are still alive um my understanding of the autopsy process is that when the remains come into the um coroner's office and they begin the autopsy that they make two incisions

from the left and the right shoulder bra blade to the center of the chest and then they cut down towards the abdomen and they um take a soore and they crack open the sternum and they remove everything in the chest cavity

the lungs the heart and so forth and they weigh them um and they um take samples of each of them to test the temperature and the toxicity of any of the fluids and these things are supposedly discarded because what is delivered to

the funeral power is actually a husk which is the void of any of the organs all those organs have been removed before it gets to the funeral par so the fact that it has recently come up that it's controversial that they've dug up

the remains of this uh black young man and they said that he didn't have his organs in place I was kind of you know uh perplexed by that considering that it's a widespread process that they remove the organs

prior to the corpse going to or the hus going to the funeral par so if anyone has any information that contradicts this because with the exception of some SoCal religious practices like those who practice Judaism so that their organs

remain in place and they don't have an autopsy performed and they're buried within a certain time frame unless it's suspected to be so-call Foul Play like the homicide most other people their organs are removed so if anyone has any

information about that and to explain or differentiate how it's different in these situations where people are saying there's something um incorrect or inappropriate about this young black male who they uh Exum his corpse his uh husin SS that he didn't have his organs

as opposed to any other person not having their organs you know I'd appreciate M yes sir yes sir okay most of the time when back in the day if you had a dysfunction as far as your organs as hum they they'll feed

you uh the part of the uh part of the organ that you had a problem with so most of there people who donate the organs some of those organs are are used for like supplements and stuff like that so they grind up something like

liver is one thing St is another uh different organs that they use in certain medicines that they use um human canavas things of that nature we use uh tendons uh livers young there about anything they could use to for medicine

they use it especially when it comes to supplementations a lot of uh natural uh uh stores have uh pieces of uh grind up liver that people take that have blooded blood disorder so people you people say the organs they don't know when it organs

the but most of the times they going to science or or if they catch them early enough they probably uh going to other people who need them okay I'm I'm clear on that but my um I guess my point of contention is that I

understand that they the accusation is being put forth that they're taking some people's organs under some very nefarious conditions where they may might have access to an individual's medical record to decide that they want to um let the person

expire in any way so that they can now take his kidneys or his heart and harvest it for another individual I understand that aspect of it but what I'm what my point was is that what I'm hearing of in times is it it's being

suggested that they are only or they are disproportionately taking the orphs of one group of people and the widespread practice isn't to remove the organs of of kavas when they come into the um carer CU my understanding was that they

removed the organs of pretty much everyone as I said with the exception of those circumstances where it might be for religious practice or so forth they pretty much remove the organs of pretty much everyone right yes speak and you only and you only saying

that they only move black people or I mean use black people or for no well my my my my my question was that it's often suggested that they're taking the organs of black people uh or some black people for

different purposes whether it be medicinal whether it be the heart the organs to reuse them and other folks whatever the purpose is whether they're digesting them whether they're using them in sexual play whatever the reasons are but what my thing is is

that it it appears that what's being suggested is that they're taking black people's organs but they're not taking the organs of other people that other people non-black people are being into the grounds with their organs intact and my understanding or the information that

I have today is that that's not accurate that across the board people with the exception of religious practices in certain situations are being put into the ground or being um you know people who are being cremated are being done so without their

organs being intact those organs haven't been being removed by the cor or the medical examin okay I see what you're saying I got it now D did you uh want to respond hello yes ma'am did you want to

respond oh yes um um well it's kind of complicated um I've was got um over past couple of decades um a couple of hospitals um and it and different um economic and various races whatever it varies okay um first of all you know

when you go um the technology now is so um I should say Advanced okay for example um different people in the hospital have um access to different information about various patients depending on what your code is okay I'm

saying not to say that um for certain things for example probably most of us know you go in they ask you to get a certain amount of data your religious preferences what to do in case of emergency etc etc sadly you know um for

most of um perhaps people of color or people who are less of fluent or whatever and and class is an issue um not as much as race but it definitely is an issue when you go into the hospital

because you will indicate if you have a position and if you do have one uh they will make make it known to the staff hey look don't mess with my patient Etc but my point being that you are your case is

staffed and a lot of people know things about you right on down to the nurse maybe to the medical technologist whatever the whole team it's a team thing so it's not um difficult for people to get access to your information

okay even just someone who does your blood gas analysis or whatever so um you know so it doesn't the rules that that are on paper just like the laws that we have and what gets done are a whole

different matter and um for example like when a patient comes in or whatever you know they get that person gets staff right on down I used to I was the first in my naivity taking it back but the

first thing that's generally said at any staffing or whatever is your race a 53 year old black manale blah blah blah blah blah okay so people are kind of like in the team they know what the deal is so in terms of um to address uh to

some degree um what the protocol might be in terms of removing organs whatever a lot depends on your religion uh to my to my knowledge now I've kind of like East and West um parts of the United States um in not low-income hospitals or

such so at some of the so-called better Hospital the protocol is what you put on your information when you come in what's said subsequently I don't mean to sound apologize that may sound condescending or whatever but in reference to lower um income people or

whatever ethnicity but yes particularly because uh blacks because it's it's not racist or arrogance or saying oh we're so Superior we've got better organs but the truth of the matter is in some regards that has manifest that you know

uh we do okay um so and even to the extent it may not be true there's still that you know as you say the mythology sometimes supersedes the reality of science okay so my point being that a lot of information that maybe a more

learned person may give in terms of what their priorities or the references might be in terms of what we want to be done to Dad or Mom or whatever or how we want to be something to be handled in the

case that they would as they say expire um might be a lot less po black people because we come in and we're all emotional and and then we tend to see that white coat and and those degrees and all those other certification

letters and like okay doc just do whatever and that happens a lot and that's enough to make you want to cry sometime because um you know people are stressed and they're dependent on this white cat just like white Jesus and the

preacher or whatever so I'm saying to my understanding I certainly could be incorrect you know in terms of per that to routinely remove a person's organs that is not uh the case now they may do that but it's not General protocol you

are supposed to have an input as to uh what you want to have done but then there are other things that people can say to you uh for for example generally in most places if someone were to um

like I'm saying to say um someone ask Scott that people can get access to your information before you expire before you get in that situation I mean like just to work in some of these facilities um I the test that you have to go through as

a um as a staff member for myself when I require ask for my records when I went from one place to the other okay I went on my Total Medical Records because particularly if you do work for the

federal government whatever they do all these tests on you you got to pass the you know this blood test and all this kind of stuff whatever my it was like about 2 Ines I'm like wait a minute why

do they need all of that on me just for me do what I'm doing so I'm saying and you know and people do for example in medical records or whatever they may have information on you all about your

um your physiology your medical history uh there's a lot of personal information and so one cannot assume that simply because and yes you are supposed to sign documents that you won't share information blah blah blah but people are human so um no it I think that

people I think that people are genuinely um surprised shocked or whatever or taken back by to find that these organs are missing perhaps because maybe they didn't need toine print they didn't sign off on this is our religious belief and

therefore we want this to be done and we don't want that to be done and so it's done or people don't read or they can't read you know or don't read well so that's how it happens but I think one

should not expect that simply because you know you expire that unless you state otherwise you know that your organs are you know going to be routinely uh removed because from the time that a person uh expires or whatever there's a whole protocol asked

about you know like if you're Jewish or if you're Islamic or whatever you want to come in and wash yourbody that's supposed to be respected but that doesn't necessarily get respected you know kind of like with us and

particularly if someone uh expires suddenly you know um you people are it's kind of sad but you know we kind people tend to get in the Uproar and everybody's crying and all this stuff is going on so that

causes a lot of confusion in reference to black people and when it comes to uh an organ as to whether or not just my opinion okay because I don't have the the stats I can only just say what I

have observed you know when it comes to um and what I know because I'm not pretty to you know all the little Masins that they do but when it comes to whether or not someone is selectively taking um a black organ versus a

European or whatever well you know black people don't have all the documentation and all the checks and balances in terms of you know looking out for their loved one or the resources as other people you know so yes I mean of course racism is

in all aspects of our activities and so why would it be otherwise we are you know know uh black people are is are more accessible you know sometimes we don't have our family always going in you know checking on us every day we

have to work or whatever or we can't afford to get there just like with um the brother who um had Ebola in Dallas and his family could not you know they were not allowed to get to him or see

him from from the time that he was placed in the Dallas hospital but according to his nephew if I understanding correctly um he said um his uncle was saying to him but all these other people are walking around

you know I don't know why you all can't come here because other people's VES is still coming here and I'm here so um you know we don't always know all the protocol what is on paper and what they

do are different things and it's very difficult sometimes to this is just in my experience to explain to um you know people of color the procedure and you know depending on your your level of whatever your level is in the hospital

in terms of what your position is whether you're the doctor or you're the the nurse or other persons you have to abdicate or defer to the doctor because often times a patient will say hey um why are they doing this to me why are

you doing that and you might know that yeah you need to ask some questions but I mean like what you know there's still this God complex about the person in the white coat or the doctor um it's like

the person will know that something is not being done correctly to them but they're so overwhelmingly intimidated um by white people I mean I've seen it you know even some of the most educated blacks that will come in you know they

just like they I mean when you're sick yes that puts you in a very vulnerable position that's why I say always take somebody with you or whatever but that's my understanding and I have you are there's certain information you supposed

to give to the facility when you hang on a second d i I appreciate the respon just you know uh wanted to make sure that other folks if they had anything they wanted to I'm Sor no apologies needed I appreciate the response I was

listening because I know you said you had some medical background that uh that I don't have I'm sure a lot of other folks don't have either um I did want to check just to make sure we got too far

field if folks had anything that they wanted to get in with regards to what Dr sug said I do uh think uh the question that esot raised uh is important uh I do not have medical backgrounds make sure I

get that in and am ignorant about pretty much everything including racism that being said uh I did check uh the research that I did online uh once you ask the question and looking around from the different sites that I went to

um it does seem like the protocol I think pretty much in line with what D said that uh they do remove the organs uh that standard procedure during an autopsy but from the several sites that I went to if they were going to be

permanently removed that that is supposed to be something that the family uh is informed about that they're supposed to be involved in that process if they're going to be permanently uh removed uh and I could definitely see that being something anything

where uh white people uh would have uh the ability to make some sort of choice where it's going to be subjective it'll be up to that person they have some discretion over what's going to happen or not I definitely anything where white

people it's it's up to them they have discretion about what's going to happen that's where the racism is going to be big at in terms of them either not informing uh the black person about this in terms of uh do they want the organs

permanently removed or what they what they're doing exactly with the body I could easily see that happening uh in a system of racism white supremacy on a constant basis where they're just that information is not being relayed uh

where they're not making an effort to adequately explain the procedure uh to the black person but from the several uh medical sites that I went to and I can share those if folks want to want to check them out for themselves uh if

they're going to be permanently removed and not the organs and not replaced uh in the body that that is supposed to be a decision that is supposed to involve uh the family members uh that they're supposed to have some authority over

whether or not that's going to be a permanent removal but again I do not uh have or claim any expertise uh in the medical field I could be an error but that did seem to kind of line up with

what D was saying um did folks have any other comments that they wanted to make sure that they got in about what Dr Suggs had um shared on the program if folks heard that hello yes ma'am uh yeah unfortunately I don't have

any comment it's just related to the orgon um issue if that's okay oh okay and would you mean it was a sh's website you went to I'd be interested in that sure okay uh if I put them on Facebook will that

work that'll be awesome yeah and then is uh escot still on the line yes ma'am oh okay um in reference I don't know this um website that I just found May answer your question but have you been to this website called truth

about Lan donation.com uh no now okay it may [ __ ] online on your question and also too it has a section I think in the material section uh which uh has a link to a medical card uh to indicate one's refusal for organ

donation because you're stting here that all of this must be documented and I don't know if the young lady that was speaking before um was aware of that as well um and that particular information is found at lifeguard Guardian

foundation.org um so I just wanted to share those resources and then I had a question for the the the lady that was talking do you know if um in the US medical school program if abortions are a standard part of the medical school

curriculum or if it's not during the I I don't know the breakdown but the initial basic courses that medical students take um f in the gynecological specialist section is that standard part of their of of becoming a medical student are

they they required to perform abortions are I'm sorry I'm sorry I could answer a little sorry interject because my niece is my niece is studying to be a gynecologist and she is in her first year of medical school um that is that

is a more specialized procedure they generally across the board um they get information about it to recognize uh what are the signs if a woman is in Jeopardy of you know uh losing fetus what's a viable fetus and things of that

nature but in terms of aborting and natural fetus that's something that would be under specialized procedures specifically when they get further along into like the beginning into their residency I don't from what my nieces told me that's not something that they

teach a first or second year medic student they're learning about General biology and procedures and that's something that's more specialized so if anybody else has any information that's different please share thank you um can I be heard yes

ma'am yes um hi I wanted to comment too in terms of to my um present understanding like I said this could have changed what but even getting back to the um issue as regards to autopsy there are some circumstances under which

uh the state um which there are agency uh federal and state and um medical regulations that somewhat can supersede uh a relative's um choice and that is for example if a patient um for example expires in surgery um and um I I came AC I I have a

relative who I particular I'll say about the uh the state of Maryland or whatever if um someone um expires doing sege of whatever and there there has to be a a at least an informal investigation um and perhaps I'm using

wrong term investigation that tends to have a negative connotation but um let's just say a review okay as to what transpired and uh so that for example I know um relativ were presented with the situation that okay um we don't know why

this what happened and so um that this we have to have this um investigation review in that case if the only way to make a determination as to what transpired would be for them um to do an autopsy because um at this these

particular relatives were very much against you know any kind of um autopsy being done then it can be to some extent um taken out of the the family's hands um I I just don't know exactly how that get waved because um you know maybe some

people might want to challenge it legally or whatever but if that's presented to a person and for example you have a loved one and they went in for example like this Joan Rivers okay with a routine uh procedure that was

supposed to be a piece of cake in and out of whatever and then all of a sudden you know I'm sorry you know she's gone then there is something something that happens you know the investigation and in that case um you might organs might

be taken lost or used or whatever um just want to say so there's some things that are from state to state that that differ on in terms of rules and regulations just like everything else thank you for that

I find the process fascinating particularly because my father is a recipient of an organ so just learning about the process of how it occurred that he ended up with an organ from a 25y old black male and he's

in his 60s was pretty interesting to just learn about how the process happens for a person to receive an organ I mean I worked I worked in a dialysis unit for about seven years as an administrator and I had a number of

patients who received transplants and that was pretty interesting to learn about that process too so but I would just encourage every person just from an administrative perspective seeing how it is in terms of intake and people signing off on forms

that they don't understand if you could visit your local hospital or if you uh know someone who has access to that information and intake form to just take the time to really go through the form and familiarize yourself with what

you're actually signing and also um you know explore the living will aspect of you know what you would want have to have done to yourself in the event that you you know you're in a a life or death

crisis how do you want your care to be dealt with don't wait until you know you're in a situation where somebody May steal your organs have some other nefarious um things that they want to do with you and be clear with your family

members great recommendations great recommendations um I find that a bit difficult to believe I'm just checking in uh since we have a few minutes left by 20 or so before the uh end of the broadcast uh no one had

any thoughts on what they heard from uh Dr sug oh can I be here yes sir oh yeah um I definitely did I got kind of um confused just going the conversation um could you kind of bring us back uh uh

what was some St uh interesting things that you thought of cuz cuz you know my brain is little scramble right now uh let's oh I will say this as far as Mr fer goes sorry uh I thought found

interesting Mr Fuller was on to something and he he kept he kept he kept I just felt like he kept reiterating like you know Jeffrey D yeah yeah Jeffrey D and I think that that that uh speaks to a bigger question of you know

he said he you know I he said that that's uh you know that's the um Hitler is not the poster child for racism white supremacy Jeffrey D is and I think that's the part we not understanding like what he even said it

he was like what you know who thinks of this you know where did that thought even come from and that's the part that we don't we we're not getting you know what I'm saying that's the Deep question is you know just like you know what who

thinks of this stuff I was even you know just reading that that they out we were talking about them Outlaw and bathing and and uh you know one of the Kings George or you know Outlaw and B and just

how and and I wrote too like a lot of projection how they're able to project onto US their own psychos you know they own psychosis you know what I'm saying I just find that extremely interesting I think that you know with books like this

and um I think this book people need to definitely read it and take notes and you know make co uh make copies of of points and share you know share some of share share this information because like you said it's still going on today

um most definitely you just hear rumors just like when you heard Dr Umar now you know somebody's watching Hidden Colors 3 and they they they they see they get to that part they say oh he's a conspiracy theory and um you know he's a nut you

know what I'm saying and I I just I kind of had I kind of could see someone saying oh that's a conspiracy you know conspiracy theory you know or something so you know I think that uh this is this

is a key and Mr Fuller was basically saying the same thing he was on to something I don't know if that was just his his senses or or or whatever or you know what I mean but you know connecting

all the dots but he said he he knew he knew that this was a as ingal aspect of racism white supremacy this this cannibalism and I just think it's the it's the it's the I think it's a key man it's like a key

and it's a um it's reality and it's it's something that uh if you uh do a little study and if and and find out maybe more about it that you you you'll you'll have some insight into racism like Supremacy

like a like a like a mug oh go can I comment on something you said uh yes ma'am you um when you mentioned uh sex and um and blood and and this cannibalism you you kind of like putting

them together did I get that right yes ma'am it's interesting because I had a um U well actually um A girlfriend of mine her mother was very much um into a lot of research she worked for a newspaper whatever and um she

done a lot of reading in that regard and she had um at that time I wasn't I guess I thought it was kind of like scary or whatever you know and um she said just as you are suggesting you know I haven't

um you know done any um you know really reading or researching into the area but she was saying that you know she had done some reading about Mass murderers and you know all that and she was saying I I remember CU it stuck in my head she

said you know they okay okay uh they found that there was a lot of uh sexual activity going on sometimes even when these people were killing a suspect so she was saying there was a definite correlation between you know sex and

this type of um mous Behavior you know um that this was um how they were I think he used the term euphoric I mean it kind of like gave them an orgasm trying to um I guess Jess is not on or

whatever but she's old enough now right uh so uh you know that it was you know just doing this is almost like orgasmic for them and there was a definite correlation between you know people who these type of people historically um is

famous and not so famous Infamous um murderers and you know their sexual um abnormalities you know um as it were you know in regards to their behavior and yeah I think you should make like a little clip of Mr FY talking

about I agree with 909 on that I just I I think that's just a really phenomenal the way he laid that out because people need to get it uh guess yes sir I was thinking about another uh program that I talked about

Sleepy Hollow the uh box yeah uh that's probably can I get a cow bell please see hello uh it's almost there almost there all right yeah that's probably the uh the dumbest show I ever seen in my life uh I

don't know how I can you make a create a uh a movie or a series based on a fictional character and then bring in the uh uh uh American Revolutionary War at the same time I haven't seen well I've seen the Sleepy

Hollow and and one thing I would say I se I seen one program of that it was on at a relative's house and they had Benjamin Franklin basically was killing somebody now when I seen that I was like

I said I don't I don't watch TV I haven't watched TV for over 10 years but when I seen it you know they were laughing they said oh they have old Ben um as a as a psychopathic killer you

know and it was blood and it was real you know it was a lot of blood and stuff like that but I remember them finding bones under Ben Benjamin Franklin's uh house and they were they were connecting him with some secret society and saying

that he was U you know he was part of some secret society and they were doing sacrifices and stuff like that so I guess you got to know some history um well not yeah so it might not make sense

to some people people but you know if you I don't know he has uh some interesting uh points from the book um it's a very long book I will say that it's like uh about a thousand Pages uh by the time you get

to the end but um it's one of those you can just kind of read flip as you go you don't shouldn't have to be uh rushed through uh you just pick up and read as as as you're interested but uh this is

from page 57 where he says there there seemed then to have been medically authorized vampires abroad in Italy and Spain and perhaps England in the 13th century men possibly also women who habitually consumed the life forces of their fellow human beings in order to

Stave off both the rigors of age and the final Hand of Death itself at another level it is possible that the medieval Alchemy of blood compromised a tradition of medical cannibalism which was more or less independent of the tradition

centered on Egyptian mummies if this is so it is clearly significant both from a social and anthropological Viewpoint it suggests that European Christians were effectively able to surmount the nominally very basic taboo against cannibalism not once but twice as we

will see once this prohibition was broken it was broken with a Vengeance and for many centuries to come uh again emphasizing that this was widespread even at one point says that this was uh systemic cannibalism not just an anomaly here or

there that this was all over the place uh powerful white people poor white people everybody uh was participating in this and uh he even has scenes where uh at The Gallows right they're going to uh to hang people or to chop their head off

you would have people waiting with a bowl uh to go get blood I mean literally like the the the corpse is spewing blood right they just chopped somebody's head on you got people waiting with a bowl uh with a cup so they can go get some and

uh slurp it down I think he talked about some of that uh on the program but I mean that this was common happening all the time and even the Executioner uh this being a source of side income where

you can you know snatch some of the blood or snatch some of the fat uh or bone material uh out of the person that you just killed and you can you know have a little Side Market going on that

this was widespread you know what I'm interested about reading a book is because to convince people that this is okay it might have been I think I think convinced people that it's okay I think it was something that they already uh

they already have motivations to believe but it's always takes somebody to write something you know what I'm saying real convincing then once that happens then people's you know then they can just widespread it so I'll be interested and

getting some of the the the names of of people that wrote about this you know this practice of cannibalism and whatnot and and and and their you know their their arguments to try to convince people cuz he was even saying during

like the Roman gladiators that people were waiting for the Gladiators body parts that's in the book too huh uh if he didn't spend a whole lot of time on that because that's a little bit before where this book starts at it's

just kind of mentioned passing I actually heard him say that in a different interview that he did where he spent more time on it but that's not uh cuz that's just not the the focus of the time period of this book that's just

kind of a passing glance in the book yeah I shouldn't yeah I'll take it to back I mean take it too far back to the Roman times but I think it's definitely a uh sometimes I don't like saying natural like it's in encoded in

their genetic makeup or anything like that but I definitely think maybe cuz you know just cuz it's hard to prove but I definitely think it's something and and in their nature something very life Essence lacking and life Essence that

they that they're trying to um that they're trying to get yeah you that's why I say remind me of uh yugu and uh Dr wising Theory particularly that portion where they talk about the insecurity uh with Egypt Africans black people having this

insecurity uh this inferior this sense of inferiority I mean that lines up perfectly uh we are missing some I read that P that's why I was stunned like you all heard this and nobody had any comments on this like wow but uh yeah

them them stating uh and him having quotes from all these people about the inferiority that they felt in relation to Egypt the continent of Africa and these black people and their accomplishments and what they had done uh and this huge industry that evolved

around stealing corpses mummies from the continent and bringing them back so that people could brush up the skulls and eat their body parts and what have you and ingest that life force uh that that that to me seems very much uh compensatory

making up for something that is lacking uh right in line in my opinion with Dr wisen's Theory and the arugu where she she says that they are incomplete beings this something that they uh have to do and I think she even out he said it as

well as Dr Mora anise says it they were doing this stuff to other white people and it just got turned to let's just do this to black people as opposed to us doing it to ourselves but he outlines

that in the book where uh the Protestants and Catholics where they were fighting and eating each other and cannibalizing each other and auctioning off each other's hearts and every I mean just it's Grizzly Man it's g i mean it's

Grizzly uh but I I I totally agree I think it it gets to an I think I said that specifically I think it it hits to an Essence this is something that is a fundamental aspect of white culture and

how white people behave I mean this is in my opinion it's getting right to the core of of uh the essence of what it means to be be white and it being attached to the medical industry these me I these these

these these so-called doctors these these so-called doctors man these Physicians the the the medical field they kill 800,000 people a year more than any other uh I mean it's like it's like up there it's like more than cancer more

than more than any any High uh you know mortality uh type of you know people we know that kills people it's the medical industry 800,000 people a year but you don't see that plastered all on the on the news and I think that that's a tie

in also man these these these witch do these these these people that we call Doctor man they are the K they're the biggest killers and and man that that that's another tiin they kill the most people you go to the doctor for any for

something they make they say they say that they made a mistake and you end up dead at 800,000 this is this is 800,000 a a year where people could is preventable deaths um can I make a comment yes ma'am one of the things um

say when I was more confused and still being startled um that I learned um than a a graduate course um that I was taking they actually said for example that say for instance that we're saying now that they're saying now that normal blood

pressure is like 120 over 80 right so um I remember in the text and in discussion there was being said well if we change those parameters if we change those variables as to what's normal versus what's abnormal that increases income

for pharmaceutical unit that increases more money for doctors so for example if they now say that oh 120 over 80 you know that used to be normal but that's like kind of like borderline normal you really should be like 110 okay they got

like maybe a 100,000 so more people that are against doctor and the doctor's going to say well you know you you have hypertension now so you need to um you know get this medication or whatever uh this procedure and I was like h huh you

know I mean so when we find that we have Physicians and people in the medical field that are these doctors you know who we think are so you know almost like you know Jesus white coat and angel wings and all that kind of stuff they've

already been through you've already been through all of this programming because nobody said anything when that was said I mean I'm like thinking looking around like okay that's like you know that that that is immoral that's unethical in

other words they're not basing on what really is Norm for a human body they're basing it on it's the now it's a medical complex you know medical pharmaceutical complex so a lot of these this information that uh we're given as to

what we should eat what we shouldn't need and what's normal what's not normal it's all based on you know making money Etc you know and these kinds of this kind of misinformation is is given uh still in the schools you know I mean I I

remember like taking a microbiology course and I have a professor PhD from Stanford and he's talking about HIV AIDS and a green monkey I'm like now there's no way in h that this man with this kind of education this kind of background

believes that crap okay we're past the green monkey lie okay but yet nobody I mean of course nobody wants to have that impact on their grade or they they don't want to you know be because you know it's not just what you do on the test

sometimes you also have labs and other projects and stuff that you do that impact on your grade so nobody says anything I knew that like nobody was Bing I'm like I couldn't believe this guy was sitting up here and

just telling us this lie you know so you know this misinformation that you get um in the university in the school some people actually when they be you know you're already indoctrinated you already been through the gaunt this is

how we practice okay so you got to be a team player and and getting back to like doctors like somebody was saying um I think it was esy was talking about you know how you need to do the research

before you go into the hospitals and all that kind of stuff and be prepared to ask questions there's a stuff that you can download online about you know questions that you should ask so you can already kind of like go and prepar and

it always helps to have a doctor even if you just you know pay him minimally or whatever to have a doctor that you can say oh this is my primary phys so that person can kind of also speak for you

because it's overwhelming you know when you're when you're ill it's overwhelming no matter how intellectual you may be or prepared if somebody tells you you know you're sick or you're dying or you know this is going to cost you 2,000 or your

mom just passed out I mean all your intellectualism you can be very well trained just like kind of goes out to the window and it's like you're just like displayed it like a balloon so it helps to be prepared ahead of time you

know and to have a position and say well okay well can you talk to Dr so and so cuz he's my primary whatever that kind of that keeps them off of you a little bit uh there's uh just had lots of

little interesting tidbits all throughout the book like it's it's pretty long but it is uh it is an interesting one I could see where Dr wising would would get a kick out of uh or at least I think she might get a kick

out of many of the things in the book uh the last one I'll uh read this is on page 193 just talking about these doctors and people that made this uh acceptable uh for everybody to be participating in this uh cannibalism and

consumption of human flesh and blood and the whole non human fat uh this is on 193 Thomas Willis uh modern general practitioner who prescribed chocolate would perhaps not be entirely unpopular and could of course respond to any critics that Coco Coco is a source of

magnesium in the 1660s one doctor recommended for apoplexy a chocolate mixture which was also rich in calcium it contained the powder of the root of the male peie mixed with human skull ambergris and musk to this one should

add of the kernels of cocon nuts one PB and of sugar what will suffice and of this make chocolate taking half an ounce or six grams every morning in a drought of the decoction of sage or of the

flowers of piy it was by no means unknown for the then novel import chakola to be prescribed by imminent doctors while this recipe seem slightly unusual it had considerable Authority behind it the doctor in question was Thomas Willis now remembered

particularly as a pioneer of brain research in a time when this organ was strikingly little known and underappreciated the father of Neuroscience was also a vigorous anatomist and by 19 excuse me by 1667 the highest paid man in Oxford I just

thought that was a interesting little uh Dr welsing uh welsing moment as well uh with the chocolate being added in with this consumption of uh fragments of the human skull uh that is supposed to uh cure apoplexy and and these other

ailments um but definitely uh right in line with what Dr wising says this uh compensating for something that is missing uh whites being incomplete and then even going back to melanin with chocolate and human flesh uh being consumed to uh compensate for whatever

is perceived to be missing this sense of inferiority uh hope it was constructive as I said we had a black female listener in the UK who reminded me of this text uh where she was familiar with it I hope

folks got some constructive information about it hopefully we did not uh add to uh confusion uh if you want the article uh that I mentioned that Dr sug uh authored uh should be on the Facebook page if you uh can access it didn't

access it whatever the case may be you can drop me an email and uh I can shoot it to you the article again it's titled the trade in human organs Return of the Body Snatchers uh in my opinion he is uh

minimizing this practice which uh just in my view it's WID spread undeniable but uh feel free to check it out come to your own conclusions I'd recommend getting this book as well like I said it is pretty chunky it's about a th pages

but you know read it your own Leisure you don't have to finish it in a day or a week or even a month you can take your time and just peruse at your will uh we should be back on Friday uh we are

concluding uh nice followup uh Henrietta LAX The Immortal Life of Henrietta LAX uh authored by Rebecca sco racist suspect uh we should also be here on uh Saturday for the compensatory call-in uh and then uh Monday we will be back to

the UK we should have a black female author uh she is a flight attendant and she uh wrote about her experiences with racism uh flying all over the world and how she was treated by uh White passengers black passengers uh problems

with her having natural hair uh the whole n but she should be here uh on Monday that'll also be much earlier than we normally are on because of the time difference her being in the UK but uh yeah we should be broadcasting uh pretty

regularly as uh 2015 comes to a close uh thanks for the folks who were able to uh tune in early uh can you tell us where you got the book from I'm sorry again I'm sorry uh this book uh the cannibals

and vampires yeah you said it was hard to get uh no I don't know if it's hard I just said it was long I don't I don't think it's particularly hard to get I just think it's long like uh it's it's

not uh I don't think you'll have too much difficulty finding it at all it's uh it's just long but uh yeah it's uh mummies cannibals and vampires uh Dr Robert Su and apparently it was popular enough that they're doing a follow-up

Edition so you should probably be able to NAB this at your uh local library that would be my guess I don't think it's uh I don't think it's very difficult at all particularly if you're around anywhere where you they have like

a major university or college I think you'll you'll have an easy time getting your hands on it no thanks if you get confused or lost along the way let me know and uh see if we can help you out

if you uh are having difficulty but I don't think it'll be tough to find um but yeah we should be back uh Friday Saturday Monday um looks like we might be on every day next week uh all the way

through Sunday so just stay tuned we should be normal normal program time except for next uh Monday uh we have our black female on from the UK but other than that normal program time if you get confused have questions feel free drop

an email until Justice gmail.com until Justice gmail.com uh let me know if you have difficulties finding the book or the article or whatever else uh you're trying to get your hands on uh we are fundraising for the close of 2015 invest

if you think the program is constructive uh racism notes. blogspot.com racism notes. blogspot.com listener supported counter racist radio you'll see the PayPal button uh in the top right corner if you are not feeling PayPal uh drop me an

email and we can get you a mailing address if you would like to support the broadcast super appreciative for everyone who has contributed down through the years I hope it has been worthy of your time and energy uh we

will make every effort to continue offering constructive information again if it is confusing if it's not helping out invest your time elsewhere we have too many problems to be wasting time if you're not getting uh helpful constructive information from the cows

we will be back uh in about 48 Hours uh unless something unforeseen happens uh thanks all for tuning in sobriety would be best under conditions of War sobriety would be best under conditions of War Creator we ask that you help us

remain patient with other black people victims of racism we ask that you help us remain patient with ourselves help us manifest maximum levels of black lack self-respect at all times in all places and each and every time we are in

contact with another black person it has been time replace white supremacy with Justice as soon as possible context of white supremacy signing out thanks all for tuning in I'm a victim brother problem you're a victim I'm a victim of 400 years a

conditioning shut up the man has programmed my conditioning mhm even my conditioning has been conditioned