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Ep. 9 - Awakening from the Meaning Crisis - Insight

John Vervaeke continues his series on the meaning crisis, examining attention as optimization, Polanyi's structure of attention, and mindfulness as a route to insight and existential transformation.

Key Takeaways

  • Attention is best understood as an optimization process that coordinates many subprocesses rather than a spotlight.
  • Mindfulness should be studied through structure and function, not only feature lists, to understand how it produces insight.
  • Insight depends on flexible shifts between focal and subsidiary awareness and between scaling up and scaling down of framing.
  • Higher states of consciousness reported across traditions may enable radical transformation of cognition and existential mode.

What the video covers

  • Recaps the myth of Siddhartha's awakening, including his rejection of self-indulgence and self-denial and the Middle Path as a way out of the 'having mode'.
  • Introduces mindfulness (sati) as a deep remembering that recovers the 'being mode' and alleviates existential anxiety.
  • Argues that scientific mindfulness research, based on feature lists, misses the structural and functional organization of the practice.
  • Distinguishes states, traits and actions, and separates causal questions from constitutive (part-whole) questions in studying mindfulness.
  • Critiques the spotlight metaphor of attention and presents attention as an optimization strategy, following Christopher Mole's view that it works by modifying other processes.
  • Uses a blind-tapping experiment with a probe to illustrate Michael Polanyi's account of focal and subsidiary awareness and the shifts between them.
  • Explores scaling up and scaling down of attention and problem framing, linking insight problems to cognitive flexibility.
  • Discusses flow states, mystical experiences and altered states across traditions such as Buddhism, Sufism, Christian mysticism and Kabbalah as possible sources of radical transformation.
  • Refers to psychedelic-assisted therapy and Bill W.'s experiences as examples of powerful modal transformation.
  • Frames the whole inquiry around how mindfulness training can make a person more capable of systematic insight and fundamental existential change.

Answers

Questions about this video

Why does Vervaeke argue that the spotlight metaphor of attention is inadequate?

He argues the spotlight metaphor captures only salience-altering but misses that attention works by optimizing other processes. Following Christopher Mole, attention is something done by modifying other processes, not a direct action.

What is the purpose of the blind-tapping probe experiment?

It illustrates Michael Polanyi's idea of focal and subsidiary awareness. Shifting awareness between the object, the probe and the fingers shows how attention has an internal structure of what is attended to and what is used as a tool.

How does this episode connect mindfulness to the meaning crisis?

Vervaeke proposes that mindfulness training can increase a person's capacity for systematic insight, leading to fundamental transformation of existential mode. This is presented as a potential individual response to the broader meaning crisis.

Full Transcript — Download SRT & Markdown

00:00
Speaker A
[Music] you [Music] welcome back to awakening from the meaning crisis so last time we continued looking through the myth of Suharto's awakening and we talked about him leaving the palace the having mode his attempt to rediscover recover the being
00:33
Speaker A
mode and the difficulty he faced in pursuing self-denial as passionately as he pursued self-indulgence and why this ultimately failed because it's still working within the same operation of trying to have a self and then we looked at said artists commitment to the middle
00:54
Speaker A
path an attempt to overcome that through the cultivation of mindfulness and then we began our exploration of mindfulness we first looked at what it meant sati and remember it's this deep remembering this recovering of the being mode that
01:08
Speaker A
leads to a fundamental transformation and alleviates the the existential anxiety and distress that Suharto was experiencing and potentially is on offer for us and then we started to take a look at that the practice of mindfulness and its attempt to address at least an
01:27
Speaker A
individual or personal experience of a meaning crisis and we were doing that because we were trying to investigate more broadly the mindfulness revolution and how that is response to the meaning crisis within the West we began by noting that the study of mindfulness is
01:48
Speaker A
misleading in some ways the scientific study because it begins with a feature list and as we've noted multiple times feature lists leave out the I das the structural functional organization in order to do that we brought out four
02:03
Speaker A
sort of central characteristics in the feature list being present not judging insightfulness and reduced reactivity or an increased equanimity and then we noted that what we need to do is to make distinctions between the types of features between those that are states
02:21
Speaker A
that we can engage in actions we can perform and traits we can cultivate once we did we opened up the possibility of asking causal questions how can the practice of being present for example produce the trait of insightfulness and then we also
02:36
Speaker A
could ask constitutive questions what's the relationship the part-whole relationship for example between being present and and not judging that being said we then also noted that we have to replace the language of training with the language of explaining they operate
02:56
Speaker A
according to different principles and for different goals and we began that by starting to ask what does it mean to be present and then we talked about concentration and we talked about different senses of that and the kind of
03:10
Speaker A
soft vigilance that's actually conducive of insight discussed by Allen Langer and others this kind of involvement is very much about conforming to be interesting deeply interested connected to the structural functional organization of something we noted that that took us
03:34
Speaker A
into a discussion of paying attention and all the while remembering this idea that we got from sitar ticket to Tama the story about tuning getting the right tuning optimization and we started to talk about attention and I made the
03:50
Speaker A
argument that attention is not very well served by the spotlight metaphor well while that metaphor does give us the idea of attention altering salience the metaphor misses a lot of what attention is doing we began to investigate what's
04:04
Speaker A
missing by making use of Christopher malls idea that attention is not a direct action you perform by walking but it's something you do by modifying something else by optimizing something else that's why you can successfully pay attention by doing many disparate and
04:19
Speaker A
different kinds of things you can pay attention by optimizing your seeing into looking by optimizing your hearing into listening by optimizing your seeing and listening into a coordinated tracking of some what somebody is saying like you're doing right now all of those are
04:35
Speaker A
different ways in which we're paying attention so what we needed was an understanding of tension that could capture the way it's an optimization strategy which lines up with this tuning idea and how such optimization might be linked to a
04:53
Speaker A
response to existential modal confusion and the alleviation of the suffering found therein so I want to continue that discussion about attention and start to point towards what might be going on if you remember mol talks about this idea
05:10
Speaker A
of cognitive unison getting a bunch of processes to share a goal to be coordinated together in some fashion now he leaves it abstract like that and I think we should try and investigate a little bit more further and more
05:24
Speaker A
concretely what that might mean and there's a lot of attention is one of the hottest areas in cognitive science right now there's a lot of good work done by frank woo by special watts all Christopher Moore just many people are talking about this and
05:40
Speaker A
I'm not pretending to canvass all of that rich and very fertile and and very like it's it's very creative its advancing I'm not trying to do that I'm trying to pick up on some key themes here because what we want to understand
05:55
Speaker A
is how can mindfulness training so as to cause more insight to make one more disposition aliy capable of insight because all after all and we've talked about this before we're not talking when we're talking bout with and we're not
06:10
Speaker A
talking about an individual insight we're talking about a systematic set of insights that are mutually related to a fundamental transformation of the person's as we said last time existential mode so let's talk a little bit more again about what's missing from
06:26
Speaker A
the model of attention so this cognitive unison I think we can make use of another important cognitive scientist philosopher scientist who did work on attention and that's Michael Polanyi and he pointed out that attention has an important structure and we've been
06:49
Speaker A
trying to follow the Platonic idea of turning the feature list into features EEMA picking up on structures and the way in order to bring out what plainy is talking about I'm gonna run through an experiment with you and it's experiment
07:03
Speaker A
you can sort of follow along with me so let me describe it to you first I need you to get some object like a pencil or a pen and we will call that your your probe nothing untoward is meant by that
07:15
Speaker A
that's just what it's called in psychology and it doesn't involve any alien doing graphic things to your body or anything like that so what we're gonna do is let me describe it to you first okay it's what I'm going to ask
07:27
Speaker A
you to do it's gonna ask you to find some object that you could put it on a desk in front of you or hold in your hand and then you're gonna do the following do not start yet because I
07:36
Speaker A
want to describe it to you I'm going I'm going to ask you to tap on the object as if you were blind and you're trying to figure out what the object is its shape its structure its weight its density oh
07:48
Speaker A
that's a cup right that that makes sense now it's important well you know you should close your eyes you're doing this I'm using touch because touch is slower than sight and so you can become more aware of what's happening now it's important
08:02
Speaker A
while you do this that you continue tapping so I'm gonna ask you in a moment to close your eyes start the tapping and then while you're doing it continue the tapping as you are following my instructions and this will
08:15
Speaker A
give you a sense of what you're doing okay so what I want you to do is close your eyes that you start tapping on your object right start tapping until you start to form an image of the object in
08:26
Speaker A
your mind okay so your eyes are closed you're starting to get an image of what that object is in your mind okay so right now you're aware like you're focally aware what's what you're focusing your awareness on is the object
08:37
Speaker A
I want you to keep tapping but I want you to shift your awareness into your probe feel how your pencil or your pen is moving around shifting okay keep topping and then I want you to shift your awareness into your fingers and
08:51
Speaker A
feel how your fingers are moving around shifting around okay some of you may be able to pick up on the individual feelings that are occurring in your fingers now go back feel your fingers and your thumb how they're moving now
09:06
Speaker A
feel how the probe is moving and now allow the tapping to reveal the object to you once again so I've done this multiple multiple times with people and what's interesting is the following thing most people find this very readily
09:20
Speaker A
easy to do and a couple things when you're initially tapping for example I was aware of my cop but then my awareness moves into my marker and then my awareness moves into my finger and when my awareness is in my finger I'm
09:33
Speaker A
not aware of the cop at all that I was able to reverse it I go from being aware of my fingers to being aware of the probe to being aware of the cup using what's all this about what's going on
09:46
Speaker A
well there's an important structure let's take a look at it step by step so here's the cup or whatever your object was right and I'm tapping on it with my probe okay now here's the interesting thing it's not like I was completely unaware of my
10:03
Speaker A
probe because I was completely unaware of that I couldn't manipulate it but I wasn't actually aware of it I was aware through it I was aware through my probe of the cop so I'm aware through this and I'm aware of this so it's like my probe
10:23
Speaker A
is transparent to me and okay let me give you an analogy right now where this is opaque right here's the analogy and think about and we talked about this before but let's do it again and it's just like my glasses are like my framing
10:40
Speaker A
right my glasses are transparent to me in the sense that I'm looking through them beyond them by means of them to transparent to me but what I can do is I can redirect my awareness so that I'm now looking at my glasses rather than
10:56
Speaker A
through them so my glasses have now become opaque to me so I can do a transparency to opacity shift now what does that ability to shift indicate well this is this is part of polanyi's idea here's my probe I'm aware through my
11:16
Speaker A
probe he has what I call a subsidiary or an implicit awareness because I'm aware through it I'm not aware of it I'm aware through it right of my focal object for example my cup and this I have a focal awareness or an
11:41
Speaker A
explicit awareness now here's a point which is really quite good right is that attention is this kind of structuring phenomena what it is it's always attention as he says from - it's an attention through subsidiary awareness into focal awareness when I'm paying
12:00
Speaker A
attention I'm doing this but here's the interesting thing I was then able to step back and make this focal right and now it's my fingers that I am aware I'm aware through my fingers of my probe and then I can even step back and be aware
12:18
Speaker A
of my feet of my feelings what some people would call sensations so I can I can keep stepping back and stepping back so I'm looking at the cup through my probe now I'm looking through my fingers the probe and now I'm looking through my
12:37
Speaker A
feelings my fingers and of course the whole time I was actually looking at the cup I was doing all of that I was looking through my feelings through my fingers through my probe into the cup you see the spotlight metaphor is
12:50
Speaker A
missing all of that layered recursive dynamic structuring that's going on and notice you can move in both directions you can do a transparency opacity shift in which I step back more and more into my mind or I can go the opposite way
13:07
Speaker A
I can do an opacity to transparency shift that's when you went the opposite way that's when you go from looking at your fingers to looking through your fingers your probe and going from looking at your probe to looking through
13:23
Speaker A
your probe to the cup and your attention is doing that all the time flowing in and out doing a transparency and opacity shifting now that's very important because that's an important what you're seeing is how many different processes are being
13:41
Speaker A
coordinated integrated together to optimize and prioritize to use an important term from Watson this particular object or this particular scene or situation so that's one way in which attention is operating now for reasons I'm not quite sure of I think it
14:02
Speaker A
has to do something with we're using a visual metaphor and the way vision is oriented in our bodies we tend to use an in/out metaphor for this like that's why I'm using stepping back and looking at as opposed to like looking through
14:15
Speaker A
notice also something that's really important for what we're gonna need this when we talk about gnosis and participatory knowing notice when I was and if you'll allow me when I was knowing the cup through the probe I'm indwelling the probe right it's not like
14:32
Speaker A
I'm right I'm participating in how the probe is being with respect to the cup I'm sort of indwelling it I'm not knowing the probe I'm knowing through the probe I'm interested that I'm actually right integrated with it and
14:51
Speaker A
threw it into the cup the way my vision is integrated with the these glass lenses so that I'm actually seeing through them and by means of them and the point about this and we've talked about this before of course is this also
15:08
Speaker A
works not which is technology with Syco technologies we talked about this with second-order thinking you can so integrate literacy for example into your cognition that you don't look at literacy very much you automatically look through it I will come back to that
15:25
Speaker A
all right so this is right as I said this seems to be people talk about this metaphorically as moving in and out with their awareness so one of the ways attentions work is it moves in and out you can right look through a lot of
15:41
Speaker A
processing deeply out into the world or you can step back and look at a lot of processing and with draw towards the center of your mind there's another important access upon which your attention is working and I can bring it out by a famous example
16:00
Speaker A
right so you give this to people and you ask them to read it and they say what does it say and they'll say the cat and there and they're like oh yeah right and then you point out to them
16:12
Speaker A
that they're reading this as an H and they're reading this as an A and these are exactly the same thing why are you reading once one is an H and the other is an A and so what they'll typically
16:23
Speaker A
say to you is well because it fits in with this word as an H and it fits in with this word as an A so let's use language we've already developed the letters are the features and the word is
16:35
Speaker A
the gestalt the overall structure now notice here you've got a problem it's almost you know a pseudo Zen problem in order to read the words I must read each individual letter but in order to disambiguate each letter I must have
16:52
Speaker A
read the whole word therefore reading is impossible now of course reading isn't impossible which means something else has to change what has to change is you our model of attention the searchlight metaphor the spotlight metaphor can't address that problem here's the what
17:10
Speaker A
your attention is actually doing its simultaneously going up from the features to the gestalt the eye dose the structural functional whole and it's going down from the gestalt the words to the individual letters the features its simultaneously doing that your attention
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Speaker A
is also doing this so not only is your attention flowing in and out right doing transparency opacity shifting it's also flowing up and down between feature and Gestalt your attention is doing all of that is doing it right now
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Speaker A
and the spotlight metaphor doesn't capture any of that and mindfulness has to do with making use of all of this complex dynamical remember what dynamical systems are dynamical process saying these are dynamic self-organizing processes and they can be optimized and
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Speaker A
mindfulness optimizes them in some way so I'm going to put something up on the board it looks like a graph but it's not a graph because it doesn't have absolute position it's just it's just a schema because it has relative position so when
18:26
Speaker A
I move this way like we were talking about when we were talking about polanyi's work I'm doing transparency to opacity shifting and going this way is to do transparency to opacity and to go this way is to do opacity to
18:44
Speaker A
transparency it's not an app no position is transparent and the other is opaque it's always the direction that matters more I move this way the more I'm stepping back and looking at the more I go this way the more I'm indwelling and
18:57
Speaker A
looking out into the world then we have this I can be going down from the gestalt to the features using the word to decide the letters for example and I can be going up from the features to the
19:15
Speaker A
gestalt nothing is inherently a feature look the letters are a feature in the word but the word is a feature in the sentence nothing is absolutely a feature it's always relative that's why I'm putting these double arrows this isn't a
19:36
Speaker A
Cartesian graph okay this is not a Cartesian graph this is a schema but one thing you should know is that although I can describe and you can understand these two axes independently they're almost always operating in a highly
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Speaker A
dynamic integrated fashion very often as I'm moving towards a gestalt grabbing a bigger picture I'm using that bigger pattern to look more deeply into the world so often I'm doing this I'm grabbing bigger patterns and I'm using those deeper patterns to look deeper and
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Speaker A
of the world right so when you find this is what we do in science for example I find this and this and this I get a pattern and then I find a way to integrate it together and then I use
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Speaker A
that pattern to look more deeply in the world this is what this is right I found a pattern and it allows me to look more deeply into the world I'm no longer looking at these individual things force mass and acceleration I've integrated
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Speaker A
them together and that allows me to look more deeply into the world often when we're stepping back and looking at our minds our awareness processes within attention we're also often breaking up Gestalt into features for example you were breaking up your experience of your
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Speaker A
whole finger into individual sections of your finger when we were doing the experiment you were breaking up the whole of the cup into individual moments of contact so very often where all these two two come together let's call this
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Speaker A
scaling up of attention and scaling down of attention so first of all let's map these on to mindfulness practices to make clear why we're doing this so I teach my students of a Poisson uh very traditional form of meditation
21:48
Speaker A
notice what the word meditation means it actually means moving towards the center so we know it's going to have this aspect to it so what do you two well typically you train people by telling them to pay attention to their breath
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Speaker A
right so first of all what they're doing is paying attention not to the world they're stepping back but they're not really paying attention to the breath what you tell them is the following again language of explaining not the
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Speaker A
language of training look at it when much more fine-grain you tell them to pay attention to the feelings and sensations that are being generated in their abdomen as they breathe so as they inhale they're feeling sensations in their abdomen and as they exhale and
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Speaker A
what they're doing is trying to write do that that like I did with my finger they're trying to maintain and renew their interest constantly make it salient to themselves now notice what's happening normally write our embodied sensations I'm not
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Speaker A
happy with that word for sort of philosophically important reasons but I don't have time to go into it right now right normally we don't pay attention so much to our sensations we pay attention through our sensations to the world
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Speaker A
right so normally I'm not paying attention to my feelings I'm paying attention through my feelings to the cup when meditation I'm stepping back and not looking through my sensations I'm stepping back and looking at them right that's like I don't look through the way
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Speaker A
my mind is framing things I'm looking at the framing I also do something else I don't just look at it as one blob I do something like observational analysis I break the gestalt up into separate experiences I'm doing this I am stepping
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Speaker A
back and looking at and I'm breaking the gestalt of my experience up into its features it's atomic features you'll allow me a metaphor that you shouldn't push too far that's what you do in meditation and we'll talk about
23:54
Speaker A
why would you do this why would that matter and importantly our question is why would that help cause the insight so that's it meditation that's for passin for example I also teach my students a contemplative practice so the word
24:10
Speaker A
meditation means to move towards the center and that fits perfectly with the past and this kind of thing contemplation now it bespeaks how how overly simplified the West is in trying to understand this in that these terms are now treated as synonyms
24:32
Speaker A
contemplative practices meditative practices it's all the same thing are these just synonyms they're not synonyms and paying attention to their etymology will quickly reveal this first of all the Latin etymology this look what's in the center of this is temple it comes
24:49
Speaker A
from a temple which actually comes from the Latin word for a part of the sky that you look up to to see the signs from the gods to contemplate is to look up towards the divine this also goes
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Speaker A
well and convergent with the Contin Plataea the latin term was a translation of this greek word theoria and the-- oriya also originally doesn't mean generating a theory a theory is a species of the-- oriya because what I do
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Speaker A
with furia is I try to see more deeply into reality to see meditation is moving this way and contemplation is moving that way meditation emphasizes scaling down contemplation emphasizes scaling up and I was taught both in fact I was taught
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Speaker A
three things in an integrated fashion I was taught of a pasta a scaling down strategy I was taught Metta a scaling up strategy and you're scaling up with your sense of identity by the way well thought will come back to that later and
25:56
Speaker A
then I was taught Tai Chi Chuan because Chi Chuan is about moving right in and out in and out flowing between these inner and outer movements in a dynamic and optimizing fashion white why teach me all these things together because
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Speaker A
it's actually a system of these psycho technologies that will optimize your cognition for insight okay so do you remember we did the nine dot problem right we talked about that remember the fact that you can miss frame things so
26:37
Speaker A
let's do the nine dot all nine dots with four straight lines and people find it difficult why remember we talked about this they automatically listen to the words remember they automatically and unconsciously project a square there and then they automatically take this to be
27:01
Speaker A
a connect the dot problems and so no non dot turns are possible and therefore they can't get the solution the solution is here's four straight lines one two three four the reason why people find that so difficult is I have to break the
27:16
Speaker A
square and I have to not treat it as a typical connect-the-dot problem I have to not treat it categorically to use language you've heard already because you don't do non dot turns remember this now notice there's two mu moments to
27:31
Speaker A
having an insight I have to break up an inappropriate frame what do I have to do I have to break up the gestalt right and I also have to do Dymatize my cognition I have to make it not operate
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Speaker A
unconsciously and automatically well how do I do that I take stuff that's normally happening unconsciously and I have to bring it back into consciousness yes that makes sense how do I do that I do that by doing a transparency opacity
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Speaker A
shift normally I'm automatically sensing through my probe but I can shift my awareness and become aware of my probe I can bring things back into awareness so you de automatize cognition by doing a transparency to opacity shift so I break up the inappropriate frame
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Speaker A
and ID automatize my cognition by scaling down now interestingly enough there is lots of work by Knoblauch and other people showing that you can improve people's ability to solve in recite problems if you get them to do what's called chunk decomposition and
28:48
Speaker A
constraint relaxation chunk decomposition is just breaking up a gestalt that's what chunk decomposition means constraint relaxation is basically de anima ties in your cognition de anima ties in your cognition scaling down helps you to break up the chunks break
29:08
Speaker A
up the gestalt and it helps you to do damnit eyes your cognition but is that enough for insight it's not enough yes I have to break up the inappropriate frame but I have to make an alternative and better frame I
29:23
Speaker A
have to watch I have to widen widen my feel of an awareness I have to take stuff that was in the background and change its relevance I have to look more deeply for deeper broader patterns that I have not considered before what do I
29:40
Speaker A
have to do in order to make a new frame I have to scale up and we also have lots of independent evidence having nothing to do with mindfulness or meditation that one of the ways you can improve people's ability to be insightful is
29:59
Speaker A
that they get trained if they have training or practice or are naturally disposed to being able to scale up if people can complete patterns in a kind of leaping that cesium BC Benner and Baker talked about right and other
30:13
Speaker A
people we can scale up in that way or voi we take pictures that are out of focus and refocus them and in mentally so we can suddenly see what the picture is again and again and again when people
30:27
Speaker A
can scale up better they're better at solving insight problems so both make you better but there's a problem because both also make you worse because if I if I just scale up if I just maximize like taking the string then of course I will
30:49
Speaker A
immediately project the square and then unlocked well shouldn't I just scale down just meditate always if I just keep breaking up your stalls I'll never make the solution I'll choke myself that's what happens when people are choking you
31:07
Speaker A
get away like if your sparring with somebody a way to get them off is to compliment them that was a really good like right hook you just threw because then the person will start stepping back and looking at it and they'll get all
31:20
Speaker A
screwed up because they'll break up the ability to generate the gestalt so notice what I'm saying cuz and stick with me because this is really sort of tricky this can improve your chances for insight by breaking up a bad frame but
31:39
Speaker A
it can also mess up your problem-solving by causing you to choke this can improve your ability for insight by causing you to make a better frame but this can also cause you to leap into an inappropriate frame and be locked in fixation so what
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Speaker A
should you do you don't want the strings too tight you don't want the strings too loose and you don't want it just halfway well what do you want to do is you want to train people in both of these skills
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Speaker A
and then train them to flow between them it's called opponent processing so they're pulling and pushing on each other and so they're forced to coordinate and constantly get the right degree of attentional engagement that is most dynamically fitted to the world
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Speaker A
that's why the people who trained me trained me in all these things that's why you shouldn't equate mindfulness just with meditation it's not so if you pay attention for example to the Eightfold Path you'll have people who trained in meditative practices
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Speaker A
contemplative practices practices in which you flow between the opposites until you learn like in a martial art to get an apt and constantly adjusted fitted miss the tensional fitted 'no stu the world now this leads very naturally into talking about mystical experiences
33:24
Speaker A
and the kinds of mystical experiences that people can have within their mindfulness practices but before I do that let's gather notice what we've said here we have an understanding of mindfulness what's mindfulness doing mindfulness is basically teaching us how to appropriate
33:45
Speaker A
and train a flexibility of attentional scaling so that we can intervene effectively in how we are framing our problems and increase the chances of insight when insight is needed notice that this didn't really what how is being present making you more
34:11
Speaker A
insightful but I've given you a way of understanding being present that works when I'm scaling down I'm actually like making my mind less representational less inferential I'm doing all of this work to become aware of and gain some
34:36
Speaker A
mastery over my processes of problem framing and thereby training skills that will make me more insightful what happens if you were just to scale down and practice scaling down and scaling down and scaling down and scaling down well you can actually get
34:56
Speaker A
to one kind of important mystical experience so Foreman calls this and it's well attested calls this the pure consciousness event the PCE the pure consciousness event it's a kind of mystical experience you can have after extensive mindfulness practice I've
35:18
Speaker A
experienced this let's do it so right now I'm looking at the world and the thing you're doing when you're practicing meditation is you try and step back and look at the lens of your mind if you'll allow me and what happens
35:34
Speaker A
is it's hard to maintain because you have such deep developed habits of directing your attention back out towards the world and you start thinking but I've got to do my laundry God do this and then what you have to do is you
35:44
Speaker A
have to bring your attention back again you have to you have to do that yet the recenter and step back and look at your mind rather than automatically looking through it and you keep practicing and that's like that or and it's in it's
35:54
Speaker A
arduous but these are like doing reps that's meditation meditation is that you're building this ability to step back and look at your mind and then what happens is right remember how we went back in layers we went into the probe
36:11
Speaker A
and then inter fingers and into the sensations when I do this with people it's often the people who have had some mindfulness training that can step back all the way into their sensations that's not a coincidence so I stop I start now
36:25
Speaker A
I'm looking at my mind right and then I start looking at the more subsidiary layer layers of my mind the deeper layers by which I was looking at the upper layers and then I step back again I step back again so now I'm just
36:36
Speaker A
looking at my consciousness and eventually I step back and I'm not even conscious of anything I'm not conscious of this sensation I'm just conscious so it's called the pure consciousness event you're not conscious of anything you're just fully present as a consciousness
36:55
Speaker A
you don't you're not aware of yourself you're not looking through yourself machinery you're not looking through your you're not even looking through your mind you're just fully conscious the pure consciousness event this is the event that results from this what about
37:13
Speaker A
if you had a really real really scale up well think about things that you might have heard associated with the Buddhist view I see I'm good to see everything is interconnected and everything is flowing impermanent I'm gonna create this
37:28
Speaker A
overarching Gestalt and the Gestalt is going to be so overarching it's going to include and encompass me I'm gonna experience this resonant at one minute and you already know what that's like cuz we've already talked about it think
37:40
Speaker A
about that as just a super flow state in which I'm deeply at one with everything super flow state resonant at one minute I don't use a tone mint because that has a particular Christian meaning that I'm not trying to invoke here at one mint
38:05
Speaker A
see this model of mindfulness explains why people get into these kinds of mystical experiences if they do a lot of meditative practices they will get a pure consciousness event if they do a lot of contemplative practices they will
38:20
Speaker A
develop this empathetic participatory flowing super flowing resonant at one mint but remember what we want ultimately is we want these two together there's a third state and this is actually the state that matters this is called the state of non-duality so let
38:50
Speaker A
me try and explain to you a way in which you can at least imagine you could get into it it's a way of trained people imagine that you're going to be cycling scaling up and scaling down with your
39:02
Speaker A
breath so as you inhale you scale up and you do that sort of resonant at one min you're trying to write be it like flowing at one minute with everything and then as you exhale you're doing the apostille you're trying to step back as
39:16
Speaker A
close as you can to the pure consciousness event and you you oscillate back and forth with the breath and you often have to do that for years but what can happen and there's other ways of getting into this state this
39:31
Speaker A
isn't exclusive this is one way way I was taught what can happen is you can have the third kind of mystical experience it's not the pure consciousness event it's not resonant at one mint it includes both and transcends
39:46
Speaker A
both it's both at the same time your awareness is deeply to the depths of your consciousness and deeply to the depths of reality and it's completely at one it's it's all at once mm-hmm there's a progeny state the state of non-duality this is a one
40:09
Speaker A
term for wisdom this is kind of mystical experience now this is the state that's actually thought for that non-duality because this is the state that should lead to a comprehensive capacity for insight because you're not gonna have an
40:30
Speaker A
insight about nine dots and four straight lines you're going to have an insight into the fundamental the guts the grammar of the agent arena relationship you're pushing to the ground of the agent and you're pushing out to the circumference of the arena
40:48
Speaker A
and you're pushing that machinery to optimize so that you can see in as deeply integrated of fashion as possible that connectedness between the two so you have the capacity for an insight not into this problem or that problem but in
41:12
Speaker A
an insight and into your existential modes of being this is how you can remember the being mode you can have a fundamental insight into it now this is in fact of course what's it hard to experienced he'd been practicing the
41:36
Speaker A
pasta and the contemplative practice called Matta very deeply very powerfully and it looks like one of his great innovations was to conjoin the two together he often talks about them and what happened was a radical transformation he experienced
41:56
Speaker A
enlightenment we're going to talk about what that might mean so after his enlightenment after his awakening he's walking down the road and people come up to him and his visit has changed think about what you think about when you are
42:11
Speaker A
watching when you see somebody and you know they're in the flow state and they're flowing and you can that grace and that energy and that the musicality of intelligibility that's playing across their face and their gestures and their
42:26
Speaker A
emotions and you can't you know most of it you're only picking up implicitly but you've got a sense what's going oh that's so beautiful that's some graceful that's so much power and there's that there's a charismatic and and you just
42:39
Speaker A
cut up in it so these men are approaching siddharta and he's filled with that and so they say to him are you a god think about what the conditions have to be like where that's a reasonable thing to ask of someone and
43:00
Speaker A
he answers very clearly no I'm not are you some kind of angelic messenger or being no I'm not are you some kind of Prophet no I'm not are you just a man no I'm not they're frustrated what are you then I am awake
43:25
Speaker A
that's how he gets his title he moves from talking about an identity he could have to a fundamental way of being I am awake he has fully deeply the depths I try to indicate here sot he remembered the being mode in a way that isn't an
43:53
Speaker A
insight about this or that problem but is a fundamental insight into what it is to be a human being a systematic set of insights that optimizes your entire being that triggers and empowers a fundamental transformative experience so as a cognitive scientist especially one
44:24
Speaker A
who studies the connections between buddhism and cognitive science i become very interested in these kinds of experiences that people have meet and I have colleagues and and collaborators are also interested in this why do people pursue altered states
44:38
Speaker A
of consciousness why is the mindfulness revolution which is the pursuit of altered states of consciousness so powerful why are we going through the psychedelic revolution right now because unlike other therapeutic pharmaceuticals psychedelics were work exactly by bringing about an altered state of
44:56
Speaker A
consciousness why is this so powerfully important why is it that we're not the only creatures in fact that pursue altered states of consciousness it looks like the more intelligent the creature is the more it will pursue altered states of consciousness Caledonian crows
45:13
Speaker A
will tumble down rooftops in order to make themselves dizzy which is a risky thing to do but they do it because they're enjoying the altered state of consciousness why is it that these that some of these altered states mystical
45:32
Speaker A
experiences certain types of psychedelic experiences within a therapeutic context we're going to talk about all of this can bring about and afford such powerful transformations what is it that's going on there any here's what's interesting sometimes people will have a kind of altered state
45:55
Speaker A
of consciousness that in my mind it recapitulates the axial revolution look normally when you have an altered state of consciousness let's pick up on Sid Hart his metaphor awakening wakening up that's in contrast to being asleep to dreaming so what happens in your typical
46:13
Speaker A
state of altered state of consciousness one that you experience every night you're dreaming and when you're in the dream state you think that that world is real you interact with it is it real but when you wake up you go oh ha that was
46:24
Speaker A
just a dream that wasn't real this is real this normally when we come out of an altered state of consciousness we point at it the finger of rejection and say that isn't real oh I was drunk that's not real oh I was high that's not
46:45
Speaker A
real but sometimes people have certain kinds of experiences altered states of consciousness in which exactly the opposite occurs they go into that state and they come back and they say that was more real that was really real and this
47:08
Speaker A
is less real do you see how that's axial that's like weight that higher higher why do we call it a higher state of consciousness that higher state of consciousness that I had access to the real world and when I come back like
47:30
Speaker A
like somebody in Plato's cave I've come back out of the sunlight this I now realize is only echoes and shadows it's less real in fact and because of my desire to be in contact with what's real I'm gonna change myself and I'm gonna
47:52
Speaker A
change my world to try and recapture zappy sati to remember what that's like I want to live in greater contact with that really real and so they start to transform their whole lives and their whole self the whole agent arena
48:12
Speaker A
relationship is completely and radically radically revolutionarily restructured this is known as quantum change Theory bad name bad name good theory people do this this is of course very important for understanding what happened to people like Sid Hara in
48:35
Speaker A
fact most of the world religions that emerge at the axial revolution are predicated on the idea that there are higher states of consciousness that should empower challenged and encouraged us to engage in such quantum transformation to go through these
48:57
Speaker A
radical transformative experiences it's obviously at the core of Buddhism you experience Sitara Satori right you realize Shunyata it's at the core right of Vedanta when I experienced moksha and release it's at the core of Taoism I realized the doubt so
49:23
Speaker A
how is it right that these experiences have such authority but it's it's not just that they're they're important historically right there at the core of the world religions right and you and you say well what about the Western like
49:38
Speaker A
Sufism within Islam and the christian mystic tradition and Kabbalah like all of the with all of the world traditions point to these higher states of consciousness that can bring about these radical modal transformations in our cognition and our very being but it and
49:56
Speaker A
and that's that's that's that's important enough but it like when you do surveys if you look at some of the work that's been done thirty to forty percent of the population has experienced these events and it's like flow across
50:12
Speaker A
cultures language groups socioeconomic status gender pervasive and universal not Universal in the sense that everybody has it but Universal in the sense that doesn't seem to be any type class or order of human beings that is not capable of experiencing it
50:30
Speaker A
so both qualitatively historically and quantitatively scientifically it's like this is an important phenomenon and here's what's really important for our purposes there's a deep connect emember I said before there's a deep connection between how often you flow and how
50:53
Speaker A
meaningful you find your life that is also the more radically the case for these states people who have experienced these higher states of consciousness and undergone these quantum changes these deep transformational experiences reliably importand there's good experimental evidence to support it that
51:13
Speaker A
they have had a significant increase in meaning in life in fact many people report these experiences as the most significant in their life and that a lot of the meaning of their life is hinged upon these transformations there are
51:28
Speaker A
deep connections between awakening and recovering meaning there are deep connections between awakening and insight as I've already indicated we'll come back to see there's a deep continuity between this kind of insight mystical experience and flue full blow and awakening experience my
51:51
Speaker A
lab we've just finished running with my associate Anderson Todd my lab director lab manager Jensen Kim all of my wonderful Ras and they'll show up in the acknowledgement we just have submitted a paper because we ran an experiment we
52:10
Speaker A
did a massive MTurk survey trying to see if there was a relationship between if people have a mystical experience and how meaningful they find that in their lives and there is in fact a significant relationship between mystical experience
52:22
Speaker A
and if you have meaning in life we did a more fine-grained analysis and this is consonant with the work of Samantha heinzelman and others experimental work showing that it's something like a capacity for insight making sense which is often called coherence in the
52:36
Speaker A
literature that seems to be what's doing all the heavy lifting so it doesn't really matter if you'll allow me so much what the content of your mystical experience is in fact very often there's no content these they're ineffable but
52:53
Speaker A
what seems to be happening is you're somehow optimizing your capacity for making sense both inwardly and outwardly it's like it's it's like what's happening is some improved optimization of this of an agog a and people find that deeply meaningful so there is good
53:18
Speaker A
reason to believe and not I'm not advocating Buddhism here because I've already pointed out there are similar claims in all of the mystical traditions and I'm not claiming that those traditions are all identical and not Aldous Huxley but there seems to be some
53:35
Speaker A
deep truths here about the nature of attention the nature of mindfulness and the enhancement of the ability to enter into these higher states of consciousness that can significantly alleviate existential distress and bring about a pervasive profound kind of optimization
54:02
Speaker A
of our insight and our capacity for finding our lives meaningful and that would be being able to do all of those things right alleviate the existential anxiety create a systemic kind of insight a transformation of agents in an
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Speaker A
arena that recovers the being mode Ford's transformation I mean isn't that the core of meaning and in the ability to do it wouldn't that be the core of wisdom so what I want to do is I want to
54:36
Speaker A
continue on and I want to explore this what's going on with mystical experiences what's going on with these higher states of consciousness why are psychedelics coming back into the center of the cognitive science investigation we've got to talk about
54:51
Speaker A
consciousness got to talk about altered states of consciousness we've got to talk about higher states of consciousness and transformative experience and what is the knowing that's going on here because it's no knowing of words there's no words there's no content pure consciousness
55:05
Speaker A
event they're not conscious of anything this is everything's the same it's just there's the resonant at one min the flowing what kind of knowing is it that's what we're going to take a look at next time thank you very much
55:18
Speaker A
[Music] you you [Music] you you
Topics:mindfulnessattentionmeaning crisisinsightPolanyitacit knowledgebeing modeexistential transformationJohn Vervaekecontemplative practice

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