Speaker A
[Music] All attainment where heaviness on his shoulders guided. So Steve, thanks for making the time to see us today. Pleasure.
Steve Hackett discusses the making of his solo album 'Voyage of the Acolyte,' reflecting on Genesis, studio experiences, and musical influences.
Key Takeaways
- The solo album was partly driven by the uncertain future and creative tensions within Genesis.
- Hackett had solo material predating his official departure from Genesis.
- Recording at a studio managed by Ian Gillan provided unique opportunities and challenges.
- Musical influences ranged from progressive rock peers to classical composers like Eric Satie.
- The album reflects both personal introspection and the broader musical landscape of the early 1970s.
What the video covers
- Steve Hackett reflects on the 50-year anniversary of his solo album 'Voyage of the Acolyte.'
- He discusses the context of joining Genesis and the creative environment during the 'Lamb Lies Down on Broadway' era.
- Hackett recalls recording at a studio managed by Ian Gillan of Deep Purple and the constraints of the location.
- The interview covers the genesis of solo tracks like 'The Hermit' and the early ideas for a solo album.
- Hackett explains the uncertainty and frustration within Genesis that motivated his solo work.
- He touches on collaborations with other musicians, including Mike Rutherford and Anthony Phillips.
- The conversation highlights the influence of classical music, such as Eric Satie, on Hackett's compositions.
- Hackett describes the challenges and creative freedom of working solo compared to being in Genesis.
- The interview also mentions later remixes and reissues, including 5.1 surround sound versions.
- Overall, the video provides insight into Hackett's transition from band member to solo artist and his musical evolution.
Chapters
- 00:00Introduction and 50-Year Reflection
- 02:03Early Solo Material and The Hermit
- 03:49Genesis and Solo Album Ideas
- 06:19Creative Context and Band Dynamics
- 09:05Audition and Musical Collaborations
- 13:21Musical Influences and Album Style
- 15:09Uncertainty and Rejected Tracks
- 18:27Live Performances and Musical Techniques
- 20:19Vocal Style and Song Interpretations
- 26:22Remixes, Reissues, and Closing Remarks
Full Transcript — Download SRT & Markdown
Speaker A
like 50 years it's um it's very hard to get your head around that um 50 years does seem like yesterday of course yesterday anyway you can visualize being there you can smell the studio yes I I I do remember the
Speaker A
Fifty years on from the Acolyte, does it seem like fifty years? God, does anything seem like fifty years? It's very hard to get your head around that. Fifty years does seem like yesterday, of course, yesterday anyway. You can visualize being there, you can smell the studio.
Speaker A
was owned by Deep Purple at the time or one of the two of the guys that you know yeah I think Ian Gillan was managing it at the time that's right Gill that's right his name corrupts up and I bumped
Speaker A
Yes, I do remember the studio. I remember it was London Kingsway Aviation House. Yeah, yeah, noise restriction. You couldn't record until 6:30 at night because it was a government building, offices, etc.
Speaker A
know solo act virgin here we go you know this is this is it I mean I mean in terms of the the the buildup to that um obviously it's well documented you've covered it in your autobiography and a
Speaker A
But it had the studio that I think was owned by Deep Purple at the time or one of the two of the guys, you know. Yeah, I think Ian Gillan was managing it at the time. That's right. Gill, that's right. His name corrupts up and I bumped into him once or twice there.
Speaker A
tracks at least maybe other maybe more than that predated it so for example The Hermit yes part of that you auditioned for the band when you joined them with the hermit when did you first get the idea of that you were going to make a
Speaker A
But the lovely thing was I thought, oh, you know, I've got a whole studio to myself. Wow, for the first time. For the first time, yes. You know, it's like being a sort of, you know, solo act. Virgin, here we go. You know, this is it.
Speaker A
what was to become the beginning of another yeah meanwhile um the band's future looked extremely shaky Phil was doing lots of things working with all sorts of people I'm not sure if brandex was born at that time but maybe before
Speaker A
I mean, in terms of the buildup to that, obviously it's well documented. You've covered it in your autobiography and a couple of interviews. You've talked about the history of the making of the album.
Speaker A
know the big deal that was that was Genesis um Mike was going to make an album with Anthony Phillips my predecessor in Genesis Anthony and ant as we know him um is lovely sweet guy I often think you
Speaker A
But when you look at it, people often reference the fact that, you know, you were writing this in hotel bedrooms during the Lamb tour. But a couple of tracks at least, maybe others, maybe more than that, predated it.
Speaker A
so I wished Mike well with that I think eventually Mike came up with small creeps day but that was a little bit further down the line so that team of of you know of a Genesis spin-off really um
Speaker A
So, for example, The Hermit, yes, part of that you auditioned for the band when you joined them with The Hermit. When did you first get the idea that you were going to make a solo album, that you might do it?
Speaker A
album um you know uh memory we were talking about this earlier um is is is a is a very confusing thing especially when you look back and you think well perhaps I'm just coming up with the version that suits me
Speaker A
Well, let's not beat about the bush. Lamb Lies Down on Broadway had been a difficult album. It had been a birth, a breach birth. It virtually divided, separated, and it meant the end of one band and what was to become the beginning of another.
Speaker A
overlooking the bridge the trains all that you know the secure comfort of mom and dad back home and and and John who was about to become a professional musician but this this was you know before he he decided that was going to
Speaker A
Meanwhile, the band's future looked extremely shaky. Phil was doing lots of things, working with all sorts of people. I'm not sure if Brand X was born at that time, but maybe before, maybe after. It was around the same time, I believe.
Speaker A
um I came up with hands of the Priestess which may have been one of the first tracks so [Music] so I mean in in context so you join Genesis what the towards the end of 70 yeah um Fox Trot sessions are being
Speaker A
Same time, yeah. And so, you know, he had something where he could sort of get his rocks off playing live with that without the constraint of, you know, the big deal that was Genesis.
Speaker A
audition so there's a bit of a core already long before the lamb tour so I was just intrigued as to know whether you'd always had something that was on the back burner or whether you'd never already entered your mind until you got
Speaker A
Mike was going to make an album with Anthony Phillips, my predecessor in Genesis. Anthony, and Ant as we know him, is a lovely, sweet guy. I often think, you know, it would have been lovely if we'd have been in Genesis at the same time.
Speaker A
Phil Henderson said you know yes you've got that as a fluk Melody but that would work equally well on OBO and I thought yes that's that's very interesting um and subsequently I'd heard King Crimson um stuff on on um lizard mhm and and and
Speaker A
But subsequently, we've recorded a couple of things together, three things to be precise. And I've always gotten on with him very, very well. That was lovely. So I wished Mike well with that.
Speaker A
extraordinary so so if if we kind of summarize it then the actual idea of doing the so album hadn't really crystallized M prior to the lamb and then of course you've got the Catalyst of being told what at the end of 74
Speaker A
I think eventually Mike came up with Smallcreeps Day, but that was a little bit further down the line. So that team of, you know, a Genesis spin-off really.
Speaker A
earlier albums including Fox Trot yeah had not made it to the final cut so so how much of the solo album is being driven by the uncertainty and how much of it is borne by frustration well it's probably a mixture
Speaker A
But that was the catalyst. I know it was the Lamb and the uncertainty. But before that, when you were writing these licks, lyrics, excerpts, did you ever have the idea then, pre-this, that you would do your own album?
Speaker A
Phil didn't think of himself as a writer at the time um but I know subsequently he's revised his opinion about his role in Genesis which was obvious ly to be the the glue and the all around good guy
Speaker A
You know, memory, we were talking about this earlier, is a very confusing thing, especially when you look back and you think, well, perhaps I'm just coming up with the version that suits me now.
Speaker A
swing and and all of this so on a couple of occasions things I'd come up with he literally transformed them by saying yes we could do it that way but also we could do it this way um los endos being
Speaker A
But I can't remember when individual tracks started to be built. I think when I was living back at home after I was separated from my first wife, back home with John EB Bridge overlooking the bridge, the trains, all that.
Speaker A
together effectively is what you're saying yes yeah it was a crowded place I think um I mean it's easy to be Pat about this but I I won't be about the bush you you've got got a band with with
Speaker A
You know, the secure comfort of mom and dad back home and John, who was about to become a professional musician, but this was before he decided that was going to be the case.
Speaker A
you know I think that that pet sweet talk me into joining the band saying it's a um oh it's a democracy it's a shared thing we were writer Co-op only to find out later that um actually it's uh it wasn't quite like being in in
Speaker A
And we shared a love of many of the Eric Satie pieces. We eventually did an album called Sketches of Satie indeed in subsequent years.
Speaker A
tentative um efforts and I was used to being shouted down once or twice and and I thought oh bloody hell um maybe I can influence Genesis in another way if I'm not being allowed to write at this stage I can influence it in another way
Speaker A
But having been very influenced by that, I came up with Hands of the Priestess, which may have been one of the first tracks. So [Music].
Speaker A
and so whenever anyone was doing anything interesting in the rehearsal room I would immediately jump on it and go I think we could use that and if I wanted something used usually the best way would be come up with a 12 string
Speaker A
So I mean, in context, you join Genesis towards the end of '70. Yeah. Fox Trot sessions are being recorded in '72.
Speaker A
be reduced to uh the 12 string role so if we come back to the birth of the album we've got in a sense the planets are aligning you've got you you've you've got the opportunity because there's a bit of a high within the band
Speaker A
Yes, now we know that you practiced for those sessions at least part of Shadow of the Hierophant. Yep. And we know that you did the part of the Oboe, part of The Hermit, with John at the audition.
Speaker A
broke the news to them um I don't think there was a problem uh everyone seemed to be up for it and indeed they were involved or at least um two of them were involved I I didn't ask Peter um because I figured you know
Speaker A
So there's a bit of a core already long before the Lamb tour. So I was just intrigued as to know whether you'd always had something that was on the back burner or whether you'd never already entered your mind until you got to the tour.
Speaker A
that that um the band did so I was everybody's fan in the band and I think I learned from them I like to think they learned something from me but I suspect later on they abandoned the sort of
Speaker A
Well, it never really entered my mind. For instance, the melody that was the Oboe melody was suggested by my pal from Quiet World, the band I was in a year before Genesis.
Speaker A
time I was coming up with an album I still think of myself as an album act I I believe in albums yeah you know uh where uh Abba believe in angels I I believe in albums I I I think that
Speaker A
Phil Henderson said, you know, yes, you've got that as a flute melody, but that would work equally well on oboe. And I thought, yes, that's very interesting.
Speaker A
think the best the best music is is music that's full of surprises whatever the genre well it it's certainly album of a lot of variety although the overall tone and tber of it is very much a Genesis feel of the of the time yes and
Speaker A
And subsequently, I'd heard King Crimson stuff on Lizard and work with the same guy. And it was rather wonderful to have someone from the LSO playing a melody that I'd written years earlier.
Speaker A
you've been part of the band co-writing and creating yeah and then suddenly Mike and Phil a session musicians that must have taken a bit of adjustment for everyone didn't it well again you know I was I was very apologetic about it I
Speaker A
I mean, that was extraordinary. So if we kind of summarize it then, the actual idea of doing the solo album hadn't really crystallized prior to the Lamb.
Speaker A
up with great Parts yeah they weren't phased by it at all uh if I came up with a baseline um uh Mike adopted it immediately I we might have done a bit of overdubbing and cleaning up and Phil
Speaker A
And then, of course, you've got the catalyst of being told what at the end of '74, you're in Cleveland. Peter says, yes, I'm definitely going. Yes.
Speaker A
things Sparkle this little things that that weren't really music as such but um it's on that borderline between tune percussion and it basically basically magic the little section that he that he does that it's um it's absolutely wonderful
Speaker A
Huge amount of uncertainty, but also in the background, we've got the fact that we know, because you've documented it, some of the stuff that you had proposed to go on earlier albums, including Fox Trot, had not made it to the final cut.
Speaker A
using the hermit Melody backwards but played on flute this time and played backwards um I don't know if people will recogniz it was on the same same yeah the same melody or not but it was uh what i' say today was was
Speaker A
So how much of the solo album is being driven by the uncertainty and how much of it is borne by frustration?
Speaker A
up tambourine played with that so he's a great percussionist and and um and you know he made that sound as if it was uh oh here comes a a Mexican band or something it it immediately sounded South American um uh and and and it
Speaker A
Well, it's probably a mixture of things. Don't forget, I was the new boy in Genesis. I was the last to join that five-man team.
Speaker A
hear it and you think what the hell's that you know is that a s what what is it so um but it seems like every experiment I came up with seemed to work as indeed did every track and I was
Speaker A
Phil had joined three months before me and was up and running with them doing gigs. Phil didn't think of himself as a writer at the time.
Speaker A
track goes as well as this MH then we've got something U extraordinary um I think it was you know very introspective that kind of Melody but then of course John and I played it rather grandly at the Albert Hall
Speaker A
But I know subsequently he's revised his opinion about his role in Genesis, which was obviously to be the glue and the all-around good guy and to dispel tense atmospheres with comedy. He's brilliant at that.
Speaker A
two sections of and again that's that's John's uh the main part is John's Melody and originally um he said oh I think this could be a little sort of a little bit like lead Zeppelin but I I think of it
Speaker A
But you know, he thinks of himself now as the band arranger, and indeed he was very, very good at taking melodies that could be adagio and giving them syncopation and swing and all of this.
Speaker A
MH and I'm using different guitar effects to make it um go wild yeah um and we introduce it with just strings so it makes it a little bit more um Stravinsky like at the beginning Steve we we agreed we're not going to talk
Speaker A
So on a couple of occasions, things I'd come up with, he literally transformed them by saying, yes, we could do it that way, but also we could do it this way.
Speaker A
Co um by the time you got in the studio was Shadow a finished piece between you and Mike or did it develop in the studio itself um well it was two diff different um things from different periods something rather more recent which was
Speaker A
Los Endos being a passing question. So my melody, his sense of rhythm, unbeatable combination, wonderful.
Speaker A
proud to say and and so it's been it's been Vindicated as as a a worthwhile excess exercising something that sounds like you know a cross between the Moonlight Sonata and the drum solo and the Earth moves when it gets
Speaker A
But it was a crowded space, as we know. Yes. So there's that undercurrent, and then you've got the uncertainty of Peter going.
Speaker A
terms of the studio recording you put those two pieces together pre pre going into the studio then yes yeah I thought they might work as as as as a long thing and um and so it's it is the long form
Speaker A
So they're all mixing around together effectively, is what you're saying? Yes. Yeah, it was a crowded place, I think.
Speaker A
know you heard her on Sally Angie but was it always going to be her or did you think about someone else I think I wrote it with her in mind and then hoped that she would do it right okay if she'd said no um I don't
Speaker A
I mean, it's easy to be pat about this, but I won't beat about the bush. You've got a band with all these boy geniuses and a little bit like our stablemates Monty Python in a way, both signed to Charisma, everyone capable of writing a sketch or a tune.
Speaker A
Sun and and did you have in mind that she' do it in a kind of a semi operatic style or did that was that something she brought to the song well um when she sang on the Sally Angie
Speaker A
Wonderful and terrifying in equal measure. I mean, I didn't realize. I think that Peter sweet-talked me into joining the band saying it's a democracy, it's a shared thing, we were writer co-op, only to find out later that actually it wasn't quite like being in Putin's Russia.
Speaker A
well worth listening to and listening to her gorgeous voice and Mike olfield singing as well said they were singing Duets harmonies Etc and um it had gorgeous Flute from Ray Wy bit of harpsicord you know there's a template
Speaker A
But I have to say that it was quite daunting, and I felt that if ever I offered anything to the band, I was quite prepared for it to be rejected.
Speaker A
rather more uh operatic yes uh which was an accident I I thought she would have the other voice but I had to go with it um um I couldn't possibly say to her oh I was looking for the untrained instinctive
Speaker A
And they were very tentative efforts, and I was used to being shouted down once or twice, and I thought, oh, blood.
Speaker A
everyone checks which dates and M's doing they want to know is Shadow going to be she would love to hear that um I um I mean it was great that she joined for the whole of the British tour yes
Speaker A
you know culminating in in in the AL Hall in the end so um uh that was fine and fan and has made it her own that vocal piece Bing the night shade bright STS of flower with nearing the
Speaker A
make haste to the threshold conce as I say I think that the song has grown in stature because it works so well live it shouldn't do and you see this is the difference you say you say it shouldn't
Speaker A
you see I I would debate that with you the reason I debate that with you is the whole Crescendo which goes on for what like five or 6 minutes on the original and even longer on the premonitions yes
Speaker A
remix yeah yeah yeah it works because you can feel it yes when you're there and the base that goes through the floors is huge you see this is the thing now Steven Wilson said to me I think you
Speaker A
should do that song and I thought yeah but surely it's ponderous it's pompous it's slow it's progy it's all these things that you know we're trying to um I'm going to joke here we're trying to entice Hollywood here you know this
Speaker A
isn't something that the Great American public is going to relate to but it's as English as hell yeah it Embraces all those aspects of if you look on the you know the positive side of pump is majesty and it has that in
Speaker A
drones therefore uh when I do it live now I don't mind the fact that you know um the first part of the song all right well it's hard for a drummer to make that swing because he's got to play
Speaker A
basically just straight but in the second half when you get all this kind of substitution stuff and contrapuntal stuff and it's difficult as hell to stay in time with it but if you hold the line there's a raw energy about it that's
Speaker A
kind of what works you know you've got this kind of Cathedral of a sound um cuz it's funny it's one of those plus an earthquake going on at the same time to topple that [Music] it's one of those songs Steve that
Speaker A
because everyone's heard it so many times live yeah it's quite weird in some ways going back to the studio version and then you you hear the crescendo piece and you the drums are really in the background on on the original Studio
Speaker A
mix whereas of course live they're very much time time have changed it was intended to be a crescendo I was thinking of Revel where you can hardly hear anything at the beginning of bolero and um and so we had glocken
Speaker A
Spiel it was a real glocken Spiel I played on the original little little thing that I bought for a Fiverr that belonged to a mate cuz I didn't have the five quid to buy to buy it h but it had a beautiful sound and
Speaker A
um I just thought that it would work as a as a as a as a crescendo [Music] [Applause] [Music] [Applause] [Music] [Applause] [Music] obviously we didn't have in 1972 melron had not yet come up with the choir that was something that happened
Speaker A
in 73 and it first appearance is as far as Genesis are concerned is on selling in by the pound most notably uh dancing with the Moonlight night it's a great appearance and um and on Cinema show they the two great appearances of of um
Speaker A
an apparent choir arriving but you didn't have that at your fingertips in 1972 so um um yeah I Tony said afterward after I I'd used it he said we could have used that for Genesis but I thought well it
Speaker A
have been on a it had been on a back burner for for three years I didn't think it was ever going to be yeah um re what's the word reborn well From the Ashes it was a Phoenix from Steve 50
Speaker A
years on it's still going strong now in 2005 we had the remastered version out then we had premonitions in 2015 yes um probably no coincidence that's the 30th and 40th anniversary do you have anything in planned in particular for the 50th Anniversary this
Speaker A
October of of acolyte um well we already do a couple of tunes from it or I have to do some of the things things in part because I don't always have a mandate with us you know much as I Tred twisting her arm it
Speaker A
won't it won't work you know uh I would that she would join us all over the world but you know she has other commitments and family and and um I was hoping you you were going to say I'm going to do the whole album I'm
Speaker A
going to do the whole album no I I think my brother has been threatening to do the whole album and um I think good Lu that be right he could do the whole album you could turn up that's right yes
Speaker A
and then people won't know that you've done the whole album there you are you're thinking you're thinking like a manager what's going on here it's good it's fine yes I think this is it okay so um yes you have
Speaker A
a future as an impressario I think with ideas like this it's a bit late for that Steve well this is it it's never too late but but uh I I think um whilst I'm out there officially celebrating um 50
Speaker A
years of of Lage down on Broadway there is this little old album at the same time which U also had its Inception of birth you know around about the same time same period it's still it's the 50 year ago well they managed to bring the
Speaker A
lamb remixes out late haven't they yes always missing the the deadlines you're going to ask me now when's it coming out have you been involved and and what's it going to be like and I know nothing I just rubber stamp
Speaker A
everything I'm just happy that it happens if it was up to me I'd have all the boot legs out there and all the rest yeah okay so and and and I will say one thing which is that if you don't like
Speaker A
what whatever it sounds like at the end of the day there are always the other versions so it doesn't really matter I don't think you're ruining anyone's childhood by having a different mix people get a choice don't they I
Speaker A
personally like the 51 that Nick Davis did I thought that was that was uh very good I gather that the first version of the 51 was was rejected by by Pete he said um uh uh perhaps it could be braver
Speaker A
and indeed the first one did sound like adapted stereo and it became rather more immersive and wraparound and I thought very good I can hear the fly at the beginning that I'm buzzing around with that and it's going around the speakers
Speaker A
great lovely will that ever appear again possibly not um but there were you know was extra key uh detail from all sorts of things lots of percussion that you couldn't hear on the original stereo you create that space don't you with a 5.1 which you
Speaker A
don't necessarily get with the stereo yeah it's lovely I I you know 51 um not to mention Atmos and how many people have got asmos I don't know but it's like being at a live gig which is great when it's cranked up on
Speaker A
premonitions you you've got you've got it's referred to as a pseudo 5.1 mix of acolyte what does that mean what it means is that the um the original Masters were lost oh okay um and I was supposed to Charisma was supposed to have those
Speaker A
that was part of the contract so somewhere along the line they got lost right um but at the push of a button you can get a something that's called a a pseudo surround but actually I have to say I absolutely love
Speaker A
it I love what that does um particularly when you hear um hands of the Priestess you hear what the bell tree does it moves around it sounds like there's clear thinking about you know things that are delineated in the back
Speaker A
speakers and front and so for a h Hazard um happy accident I think it sounds absolutely terrific so does pseudo simply mean that it wasn't based off the original Masters or what it means is is is is that you
Speaker A
take the original stereo and funnily enough the original stereo was widened by um by Ben fenna who makes this our live sound and has done lots of other things with me um and it may well be that based on
Speaker A
that uh um stepen Wilson said all I did was press a button and then the technology kicked in so that's what we mean by pseudo right um 51 but there are other tracks on the premonitions box set that are sorry other albums which are
Speaker A
you get please don't touch you get you get Spectral mornings that are mixed in in surround and and again you realize that there were things that are in there that weren't heard in the stereo version yes you'll hear that
Speaker A
with red flow taii yeah you'll here and with aite in particular which were the tracks that you thought oh wow that's just well I loved that and and I loved what it did to um uh well pretty much the two tracks
Speaker A
that we're talking about mainly uh um shadow of the hant I like what it did with that and I liked what it did very much to hands of the Priestess it did magical things to that yeah um so I must
Speaker A
go back and listen to it once I've because we just moved into this new house well here you go and what borrow my copy oh lovely there we are folks here it is available at all good record St indeed yes available before Trump
Speaker A
takes it over you can bite here Steve listen it's been lovely talking to you um you too looking forward to your next tour thank you always a pleasure um few more acolyte songs please yes it might it might be possible
Speaker A
um but no we're we're very much looking forward to it and thanks again for support for our adventure much appreciated yes and good luck to everybody out there thank you take care Steve thank you all best Cheers thank
Speaker A
you thank you very much as always he knows knows who you are [Music] knows knows who you are
Topics:Steve HackettVoyage of the AcolyteGenesisprogressive rocksolo albumIan GillanDeep PurpleEric Satie1970s rockmusic interview
