Speaker A
Hello, guys, and welcome to episode one of whatever this ends up being called. I still haven't thought of a name. It's a work in progress. We are here with my good friend.
A candid conversation with Seth Scheepers about his journey in youth ministry, church planting, and faith challenges.
Key Takeaways
- Faith journeys are unique and often involve transitions and challenges.
- Church planting requires vision, perseverance, and community support.
- Leadership in ministry encompasses various roles and responsibilities.
- Spiritual growth includes learning to trust God's timing and movement.
- Respecting diverse prayer and worship styles strengthens church unity.
What the video covers
- Introduction to Seth Scheepers, youth and young adults pastor at Good Hope Church in the city.
- Seth shares his personal faith journey from childhood through age 25, including involvement in Hillsong and Father's House.
- Discussion on church planting and transitioning from Father's House to establishing Good Hope Church.
- Insights into Seth's roles in youth leadership, worship, and church tech, highlighting his dedication and learning experiences.
- Reflection on spiritual growth, challenges, and the importance of community and accountability in ministry.
- Exploration of faith during waiting seasons and how God moves in unexpected ways.
- Emphasis on the importance of leadership development within church environments and personal responsibility.
- Seth discusses the significance of prayer styles and respecting diverse approaches within the church.
- Encouragement for those feeling called to plant or lead churches to seek guidance through scripture and community.
- Closing thoughts on faith, perseverance, and the ongoing mission to inspire and support others.
Chapters
- 00:00Introduction and Purpose of the Series
- 04:26Background and Early Church Involvement
- 08:30Transition from Father's House to Good Hope Church
- 12:54Roles in Youth Ministry and Worship Leadership
- 20:47Spiritual Challenges and Faith Reflections
- 27:26Leadership Development and Accountability
- 34:32Prayer, Worship Styles, and Church Community
- 44:22Encouragement for Church Planters and Final Thoughts
Full Transcript — Download SRT & Markdown
Speaker A
Hi Seth. Seth full name. [laughter] Uh my name is Seth Skippers and I am a a uh youth and young adults pastor at a church based in the city.
Speaker A
Hi, Seth. Seth full name. [laughter] Uh, my name is Seth Skippers, and I am a youth and young adults pastor at a church based in the city.
Speaker A
So yeah, as mentioned in one of my previous videos, the the goal of these these reels and these videos is just to inspire individuals and help people to get out of anything that I be facing be it spiritually, physically. But yeah,
Speaker A
Proper. So what we're going to be doing is just going into like a smaller conversation on your journey, starting from age zero [laughter], just all the way up into age 25, I think is your age. Yeah.
Speaker A
ado, let us get into it. So, Seth, tell us a little bit more about yourself.
Speaker A
So yeah, as mentioned in one of my previous videos, the goal of these reels and these videos is just to inspire individuals and help people to get out of anything that they be facing, be it spiritually, physically. But yeah,
Speaker A
I went to Hill Song for a while was in involved plugged in. I was a youth leader, young adults leader, worship leader, youth worship oversight role for a little bit um for the southern suburbs.
Speaker A
All in all, the goal is to lead people to Christ and to have people of different backgrounds in different situations understand that they aren't alone and that there's always someone they can turn to. So, without further
Speaker A
a while and then they ended up at what was father's house at the time and then we I met up with him. we caught on and I did my internship with him and then yeah things went down life happens
Speaker A
Ado, let us get into it. So, Seth, tell us a little bit more about yourself.
Speaker A
the right people just walked into the building at the right time and the Lord's hand has just really just been on on it even in the moments where it's like this does not make sense.
Speaker A
Uh, yeah, like I said, I'm the youth pastor and the young adults pastor at a church in the city called the Good Hope Church. My friend and I, he's my senior pastor, but we've known each other for 3 years now.
Speaker A
Yeah, definitely. I just saw something this morning where this guy was saying in that waiting season the Lord can move excruciatingly slow in one moment but then the next he works supernaturally fast and you I think we all have testimonies when
Speaker A
I went to Hillsong for a while, was involved, plugged in. I was a youth leader, young adults leader, worship leader, youth worship oversight role for a little bit for the southern suburbs.
Speaker A
new standalone church. How did that? Yeah. Purely purely independent. We then we were father's house Cape Town and don't really want to get into it for other reasons, but then we closed Father's House Cape Town closed and we said, "Cool, we're going to do
Speaker A
And then yeah, I was studying theology, and I needed to do a practical year. So I needed to figure out how is that going to work practically, pun intended. But yeah, met Israel through my parents because they had bounced around churches for
Speaker A
M and yeah, and we have services every Sunday, barring a a race that then cuts off half the city [laughter] from getting into town, but sure. And what time do you guys normally have like your services?
Speaker A
A while, and then they ended up at what was Father's House at the time, and then we met up with him. We caught on, and I did my internship with him, and then yeah, things went down, life happens,
Speaker A
Road, eh? Uh, close street. Close street. Yeah. Sorry. What school is the high? That's the one.
Speaker A
And we said, okay, we're feeling like we don't want to give up on this church in the city thing, so let's just take it ourselves, and then we planted the Good Hope Church 2 years ago in September, and then yeah, just
Speaker A
[laughter] Let's go back in time now to the young ages. How long have you been part of of church as a whole?
Speaker A
The right people just walked into the building at the right time, and the Lord's hand has just really been on it, even in the moments where it's like this does not make sense.
Speaker A
Not ideal. Don't do do not recommend it. Um but my parents traveled a lot when I was a kid. So there was just that weird thing of like parents wouldn't be home, couldn't we didn't end up going to church as a
Speaker A
How are we going to pay for this? How are we going to do that? But yeah, the Lord likes to come in when he comes in, and yeah, super thankful for it.
Speaker A
Yeah. um back in the day uh I think I was maybe like 11 at the time and she got invited to a conference by McGran and then she started going to youth on a Friday night and then that then just
Speaker A
Yeah, definitely. I just saw something this morning where this guy was saying in that waiting season, the Lord can move excruciatingly slow in one moment, but then the next he works supernaturally fast, and I think we all have testimonies when
Speaker A
Yeah. Literally. And then our entire family ended up in church uh later that year and then yeah started going to kids, parents started going to obviously normal service then just grew up grew up in it from from 11.
Speaker A
It comes to that. Um, I actually had a question because I was always confused about this, but you kind of answered a bit of it. So you transitioned basically from Father's House into the Good Hope Church as a
Speaker A
My grandmother was both my grandmothers were very very faith heavy very much were like no we're going to pray we're going to intercede we're going to be here. one leaned more traditional cuz she grew up Dutch reform and then married my grandfather who was
Speaker A
New standalone church. How did that? Yeah. Purely, purely independent. We then, we were Father's House Cape Town and don't really want to get into it for other reasons, but then we closed Father's House Cape Town, closed, and we said, "Cool, we're going to do
Speaker A
[laughter] Um a 3-hour how how does it normally work? because I'm the first time I'm hearing it like three-hour fast. Isn't that just to So, how my dad explained [laughter] it to me was it's to represent um the 3
Speaker A
This, we're going to do this our way." And we planted our own church. Left the old building that we were in, let that lease expire, and then we are now located in Yan Rubic High School, Top Close Street.
Speaker A
Mhm. I don't know if the nap part afterwards [laughter] was my dad's own little interpretation of it, but yeah. And then Yeah.
Speaker A
M, and yeah, and we have services every Sunday, barring a race that then cuts off half the city [laughter] from getting into town, but sure. And what time do you guys normally have your services?
Speaker A
mission strips to be to this to this day in areas of this country that I've never heard of.
Speaker A
Uh, 9:30. 9:30. You guys have it there? Just as a heads up for parking, look for the big gate. I missed it the last time I tried to go visit, but the security guard eventually came in crutch.
Speaker A
whatever phase. But then yeah, fell in love, fell in love with the Lord and never looked back. Then started serving in every area. Like I mean you're nervous. We did we did kids together. We did youth together. I did kids tech. I
Speaker A
Road, eh? Uh, Close Street. Close Street. Yeah. Sorry. What school is the high? That's the one.
Speaker A
Production manager for youth on a Friday night. I would do everything barring the sound on a Friday night. Like really really learned a lot. And then was in church at 7:00 on a Sunday morning and leaving church at 9:00 on a Sunday evening. and
Speaker A
Or if you put it into Google, worst score. [laughter] Yeah, that's normal. That's the one. Okay. So, just to backtrack because that was like the super summary.
Speaker A
Still love the people. Absolutely served the served a massive role in shaping me into who who I am now.
Speaker A
[laughter] Let's go back in time now to the young ages. How long have you been part of church as a whole?
Speaker A
south there and then Friday nights would still be at youth for a little bit but then got into setting up the young the junior eye setting up fuel.
Speaker A
Um, grew up in the Anglican church for a while. Um, and then, well, from as long as I could remember. Then we stopped going to church as a family for a while just out of practicality.
Speaker A
and then co happens and we all love co um what a memory we don't we don't talk about it fun times um but yeah and then was serving on the worship team at youth serving on the tech team at youth
Speaker A
Not ideal. Don't do, do not recommend it. Um, but my parents traveled a lot when I was a kid. So there was just that weird thing of like parents wouldn't be home, couldn't, we didn't end up going to church as a
Speaker A
whether that would be young adults or that would be the 8-year-old kid who's been dragged to church because mom said we need to come to church and making sure everyone gets to see a bit of God. Like everyone's
Speaker A
Family. So then just stopped going. Then my sister actually got invited to Hillsong's color conference, which is now I think Sisterhood Conference. I think that's what it's called now if I'm not mistaken. Yeah.
Speaker A
Yeah. Like people's souls long to encounter God. So why do we restrict that on to just being the two hours on a Sunday that people get to encounter him?
Speaker A
Yeah. Um, back in the day, uh, I think I was maybe like 11 at the time, and she got invited to a conference by McGran, and then she started going to youth on a Friday night, and then that then just
Speaker A
So, it was a a a non-starter for me cuz I was like, "Okay, cool. I'm a kid. I'm at school. I can't like, yes, I'm going to carry him at school, but I can't there's not much I can do
Speaker A
Perpetuated through. It's that beauty of like one person gets an invite, and then that person gets set on fire by the Lord, and then they invite another person, and then, and then it just keeps going.
Speaker A
But what I can do is still serve people in a Christlike manner." Whether that was days where I would um just buy some random kid lunch because I was like, "Okay, cool. I don't I have that lunch and I know my friend doesn't have
Speaker A
Yeah. Literally. And then our entire family ended up in church later that year, and then yeah, started going to kids, parents started going to obviously normal service, then just grew up, grew up in it from 11.
Speaker A
Why don't I just buy my friend a pie?" Exactly. And then just leave it at that. But anyway, now we derailing. But um yeah 2015 CO happens. I finish high school just before CO starts and I was like, okay.
Speaker A
Uh, gave my life to the Lord fully. I will say at like, like I want to say like 12, 13, because I was like always knew he was real.
Speaker A
he wanted to do. And yeah, I was just praying one day and I was like, I don't know where I'm going.
Speaker A
My grandmother, both my grandmothers were very, very faith heavy, very much were like no, we're going to pray, we're going to intercede, we're going to be here. One leaned more traditional because she grew up Dutch Reformed and then married my grandfather who was
Speaker A
I'm going to go study engineering. And then I'm just like, I don't know yet.
Speaker A
Anglican. So the combination, the combinations are very much like we all go to church. We don't eat red meat on a Friday. We fast 3 hours on a Friday on Good Friday, and then we take a nap afterwards.
Speaker A
um it's really cool organization um in the states where you can go you apply obviously but you go and you essentially are just a youth leader at a camp so I was like cool that's great I'll go do that for 3 months and then let's see
Speaker A
[laughter] Um, a 3-hour, how does it normally work? Because I'm the first time I'm hearing it, like three-hour fast. Isn't that just to— So, how my dad explained [laughter] it to me was it's to represent the 3
Speaker A
And then I was like, maybe I go do a a year-long like Bible course type of thing. I was like, that's not the end of the world. Doing some research and applied to a few places, got into um
Speaker A
Hours that Christ was on the cross for those 3 hours. So, you just don't eat for those 3 hours.
Speaker A
Go check it out. And I'm like, I love it. I love what they do. And I was like, it's also so different to what I'm used to. Grew up grew up in the Anglican church and did Hill Song.
Speaker A
Mhm. I don't know if the nap part afterwards [laughter] was my dad's own little interpretation of it, but yeah. And then, yeah.
Speaker A
um than the supernatural side. So I was like, "Okay, that's different." And knowing me, I'm all for the let me just get thrown into the deep end of different, keep what I like, and chuck away what I don't like, and see if I can
Speaker A
Then my grandma on my mom's side was very, very charismatic, very Pentecostal. Grew, again, grew up very traditionalist but later on in her life then got discovered the evangelical church Pentecostal movement and then fell in love with it, and she saw those
Speaker A
Um because I get in I was meant to fly over in August of 2020 but obviously young happened.
Speaker A
Mission trips to this, to this day, in areas of this country that I've never heard of.
Speaker A
So they were only meant to, the original plan was to release the online program last year, 2025, but they fasttracked 5 years cuz they're like half our students are [snorts] literally trapped in their own countries. They can't get flights.
Speaker A
But she goes, and it, yeah, that just makes my heart happy. M. Um, so it was always around. I knew God was real. I went through the weird, oh no, there's a God out there but I don't know what it is, who it is,
Speaker A
can't leave your own place anyway. Social distancing was a pain. Social distancing was rough. But yeah did that the first year did second year. the favor that the Lord was shining on me was is insane.
Speaker A
Whatever phase. But then yeah, fell in love, fell in love with the Lord and never looked back. Then started serving in every area. Like I mean, you're nervous. We did kids together. We did youth together. I did kids tech. I
Speaker A
No easy feat and I'm so grateful for it. Um and because and they I don't know if they still do it but when I was applying how they navigated first years um foreign first years is you needed to
Speaker A
Did big church tech. I was doing, um, I was, um, what do they call it?
Speaker A
for you. So, they apply for your visa for you, they write your letters for you, and then whatever. But, um, but literally, it's like co happens, my parents work in tourism, so that obviously wasn't happening.
Speaker A
Production manager for youth on a Friday night. I would do everything barring the sound on a Friday night. Like really, really learned a lot. And then was in church at 7:00 on a Sunday morning and leaving church at 9:00 on a Sunday evening, and
Speaker A
class because we were behind on fees. Oh, hectic. Yeah. But then randomly the fees that I needed to get back into class, they were like, "You need to pay 2 months worth of your fees to get back into
Speaker A
Then going to school on Monday morning. Yeah. Fell in love with it. Couldn't see myself in any other place but just where the Lord was, and Hillsong was that place for a long time and still love him.
Speaker A
just like the Lord's hand was like every step of the way. I'm like, "Okay, if I ever doubted that I needed to be here in this season right now, those moments will be the ones to be like, okay, I'm I'm I'm where I need to
Speaker A
Still love the people. Absolutely served a massive role in shaping me into who I am now.
Speaker A
work, work, come home, take a nap. Class starts at 6:00. I'm in bed by like 1 and then I got to go to bed and wake up and go to work the next day.
Speaker A
And I can never forget that. Um, yeah. And then I hit, I want to say like 15, 16, and the southern suburbs were going to open. So then Sunday mornings and Sunday evenings would then be spent in the
Speaker A
yeah, need to do my third year, needed to transition out of Hill Song and that was painful but in a good way.
Speaker A
South there, and then Friday nights would sti—
Speaker A
It was twofold definitely. It was I felt like my time had come to an end.
Speaker A
It was and I was talking to my fiance about this. Um, so I was just flexing on the people that are [laughter] single, but you just had to throw that in there. Sheesh.
Speaker A
Nah, but I was actually speaking to my fiance about it and we both had two different experiences.
Speaker A
Um, but very much the same thing. and when she needed to transition out of a church, um she had a lot more of a visceral encounter with the Lord, but that's her relationship with the Lord. The Lord, she's encountered the Lord in so many
Speaker A
gorgeous ways. She's audibly heard his voice. She's physically been touched. Um and I'm like, I love that.
Speaker A
I love that. But cuz it doesn't happen very often that you need to like absolutely take Yeah. It gets you. It really Exactly. Even like for me there's there's only been one instance where I know I've had the Lord physically like
Speaker A
interact with me in such a way. It was during the my H retreat where I think Pastor Wendy was speaking and then she said we're just going to let the Holy Spirit minister to us right now. And then yo, my eyes were closed and then
Speaker A
like even eyes are closed. My my pastures I'm like facing downwards and then like I just the presence of the Lord was with me and like felt like the like the Lord's hands like literally put his hands on my shoulder. Oh hug once
Speaker A
you not even like not to like yeah I think for other people they might have had a hug but for me it's almost just like his hands are on my shoulders like reassuring and I hear him speak to me so clearly
Speaker A
and just says that you've you've tried so hard and you enjoy being different but I want you to be different for my sake not your own. And then I was like I know exactly what you mean. It's confusing but I know what you mean.
Speaker A
I I know what you mean. I don't know what specifically you [laughter] mean exactly but I know what you mean.
Speaker A
I don't understand but I understand at the same time. Yeah. And like there's that and then I'd say I've heard his voice audly more times than I've had the physical interaction like like I mentioned earlier like I heard his voice on
Speaker A
Wednesday passed even when I like for my my journey of transitioning out of real song. I literally just woke up one day. This is like just before my birthday in Jan. And then I woke up like, "Oh, interesting
Speaker A
day. What's what's happening today?" Like normal thoughts. And then sun is like boom in Cleveland Church. And I was like, "What the fuck?" But I didn't even brush my teeth yet telling me dropping these bangers on me.
Speaker A
And then Yeah. So I I was like, I've never heard the Lord say this before, so I know it means something. So pray about it. the image of the Lord.
Speaker A
You're telling me to leave a church environment that I've been plugged into for so long.
Speaker A
Yeah. Something you've been raised in like quite literally from the age of when did I start? As soon as I came to South Africa, I remember we were there day one.
Speaker A
Eight. Oh, eight basically. Yeah. In the in the convention center and it wasn't even like me. I didn't know who your song was. I just knew my mom was like blasting the music [laughter] and it wasn't even that she
Speaker A
bro genuinely. and she was like listening to the music since probably before I was born.
Speaker A
And then interestingly enough, it was my cousin and my uncle. They were the ones who were like as soon as they heard it was come to like he'll come to they were like, "Oh, we're all going to go. We're
Speaker A
going to we're going to go visit. We're going to we can be part of this." And then we all went they after that experience just weren't in it anymore. Like I don't know what what their spiritual encounter was, but
Speaker A
they were just like not this is like it was a one and done for them. But my mom was the one who's really taken her back by the experience. It's like the Lord through through the worship music had
Speaker A
prepared her heart for let's say decades at least maybe in 10 years. And then yeah over there I remember my first my first Sunday there. Pastor Wendy and Pastor Zach were like leading kids church. It's funny cuz seeing them
Speaker A
over the years I'm like they don't know that I've I've been here that long but like I look at them and I still remember the impact they've had. But yeah, like you said, growing up in all the different phases from your age eight up
Speaker A
until being in young adults literally was insane. I've had so many amazing memories. So many different passes either helping me in like from moment to moment or just giving me like good advice. Like it's been awesome. But at
Speaker A
the same time, I felt at home, like both at home, but also a bit of unease at the same time. It's almost like wrestling with this thing of I love being here, but maybe I'm not supposed to be here
Speaker A
forever. Yes. and watching so many different leaders that I grew up with go astray.
Speaker A
And I was like, my mind was almost like, yeah, maybe I'll leave one day, but I don't want to end up leaving church.
Speaker A
Yes, it has to be if I'm leaving this particular church is to step into a new season elsewhere. And in my mind or in my my soul, I thought that meant maybe in the 30s when I've gotten out of the
Speaker A
mosh era and all the all the vibes, you know, that kind of thing. Unfortunately, I've I've discovered this.
Speaker A
You never really phase out of the botch era. True. I' I' I've really I'm like the more cuz my church's congregation is being slightly more older.
Speaker A
So we don't really have a mosh pit area or a mosh pit like vibe or environment.
Speaker A
But every Sunday I'm like, you know what? What's wrong with a jump? What's what's wrong with a with a jump? And and and you know what? Listen, if David can dance undignified before the Lord, so can I.
Speaker A
Pop and lock. Just do it 100%. Bro, like that. But that was the gorgeous thing of and that's why I love um our expression at our church is it's the best of both worlds.
Speaker A
Yeah, cool. We might not be having flags. Shout out to the flag dancers. Yeah. But when people have an encounter with the Lord, never never restrict it.
Speaker A
We've had people cartwheel down the front of of of the stage and it's I haven't been peritted those moments yet, but maybe soon.
Speaker A
No, bro. It it's that or people um out of their own just declaring who the Lord is to them or ministering to the Lord openly and authentically in the quiet moments of a worship set of someone [snorts] has a prophetic word
Speaker A
come and share it. Like that's the culture we're in where it's like yes ministry is yes there's the the the vocational ministry side but ministry is the life that we all ought to live as Christians is what's the Lord calling me to do here
Speaker A
now cuz that's all I can control. I can't control what the Lord going to ask me to do in 5 hours but I can control what he's asking of me right now.
Speaker A
Exactly. Um, so it's like that those thoughts were like that little bit of unease. It's it's a thing. So it's like my fiance had a very visceral reaction.
Speaker A
I had a just that like mild discomfort of it's it's it's coming. It's coming. The end is near.
Speaker A
Yeah. Your mind. And it's and it's tough, bro. I cried, not going to lie. cuz like when I cuz how how it worked for me was obviously the Lord said you need to leave leave your song and and then like
Speaker A
that's where the instruction ended for the time being and then I was like Lord if this is what you're saying then you also need to show me where's the what like what's the next step?
Speaker A
Yeah. Like I don't think I don't ever think the Lord's going to say hey your time is done just and then and then not lead you somewhere afterwards. He's never going to lead you into barren pastures.
Speaker A
Yeah. cuz I'd worked with me is like literally as soon as I said Lord you need to show me like where if I'm leaving this church what's the next church that I jump into like I had no assumption on where where the next step
Speaker A
was and then within you it could have been two days within having that that that moment of saying to the Lord Lord show me what the next step is through social media I was scrolling I found this this person's Instagram page
Speaker A
and I just followed and then eventually something drew me to this person's page and I just looked through and then I found this church and I'm like oh they have a They have a campus in the southern suburbs. Let me go check it
Speaker A
out. And it's not like I immediately went to go check it out. I think I gave it a week and then I was like, okay, I'm going to go check it out.
Speaker A
I went I took Yang along. I took another friend of mine along. The moment I got there, everyone's interaction with me. I was just like, I didn't know I belong here. It's like so crazy. Like immediately I was like
Speaker A
something about this kind of this church that is just pulling me in. Yeah. And then I even like the person who whose page brought me here. And I'm like now like months later I'm like this person is such an awesome leader. They didn't
Speaker A
even know that they can see their heart. I can see everything that they do. I'm like yo I'm so grateful. And like the peace that I have it's I don't even know how to explain it. But it all
Speaker A
comes down to when when God speaks to you, you have to stop letting your own thoughts get in the way. So we had we had this saying um at church um Pastor Israel actually came up with it. He
Speaker A
hates when Pastor Israel, [laughter] but so Israel came up with um came up with it. I think he got I think he got it from someone but or he thought of it.
Speaker A
One of it too, but that's been like our mantra for years. Um and that's something that we built this our church on which is delayed delayed obedience is disobedience. Yeah, because if the Lord's telling me to go and yes, sometimes the Lord's going to
Speaker A
say go right now. The Lord says jump, jump, but there's the So, the word I got from the Lord when I knew I was um my season as your song was coming to an end was literally that it's it's coming.
Speaker A
The time's coming. It's not right now, not yet, but it's going to come. And I was like, "Okay, I'm not going to be that guy that's now just going to d because the Lord said, Lord, give me a kind of word,
Speaker A
not not a definitive word." So, I'm like, "I'm not going to move on that." If he says not yet, then I will sit here. If it's uncomfortable, then it's uncomfortable. Pruning is uncomfortable.
Speaker A
But if the Lord tells me to go and I'm not going to immediately act on it and I'm going to wait 3 months, I'm going to wait 2 months, I'm going to wait 6 months before I act, that is disobedience cuz
Speaker A
I'm delaying when I'm going to act even though the Lord told me to act now.
Speaker A
Exactly. I had a bit of the opposite because he didn't say leave now, but it was almost like once I started to understand that, okay, I I have this piece that this is where I need to be, it became a lot more clear like
Speaker A
but it's it's easy. It was but it wasn't even like an immediate thing of now I know I'm supposed to be on a jump me. I think it took me I want to say less than a month maybe two to 3 weeks
Speaker A
of just preparing myself and preparing cuz obviously serving in here so I couldn't just dip I had to message my photography oversight young adults oversight just tell them hey look the Lord has called me in this direction um I just want to obviously communicate
Speaker A
and let you know that you know I'm I'm stepping out not leaving church I'm just leaving this particular church home to to join another one where my new season will begin and honestly like no one was really upset about it. Everyone understands
Speaker A
that when the law tells you to move. Do you move? Mine was mine had some of its hiccups, but it was because it was straight out of co.
Speaker A
Yeah. So, masks were still a thing and skeleton crew was a like an accurate description of team capacity.
Speaker A
Um, so I think my transition took it took me like 2 months months at the time. So, I was tribe leader. I was junior junior high tribe leader um running the worship the youth worship team one of the only guys who could do sound
Speaker A
cuz um there wasn't enough people to send to all the sites. How many people did we have at that time on sound like one?
Speaker A
Me and Jake was your was so Jordan wasn't even there yet. Jordan wasn't there yet. Jordan came a little later.
Speaker A
Shout out Jordan. Yeah, Jordan came a little bit later, but when we started it was like literally just me and Jake.
Speaker A
So, shout out Jake as well. Actually, shout out Jiggles. But yeah, so it's like the seasons look the the transition looks different.
Speaker A
Um, but I think yeah, you transitioning out there was a lot more hands, so it was like there's more people to catch.
Speaker A
Exactly. But yeah and like looking back I I have no regrets and the fact that I'm able to obviously go visit from time to time because like I spoke to the bishop about it and I was like it's not like I left because
Speaker A
because every church has certain issues that and a lot of people leave because of those things. For me it's like it was never about that. It's just like the Lord is calling me to just go into a clean slate in a new chapter. That's why
Speaker A
I can visit. I can greet people but I can also recognize that this isn't where the Lord is calling me to grow. But at the end of the day, these are still my brothers and sisters in Christ. So I'll
Speaker A
I'll go pop in, go say hi to everyone. And then yeah, you know, it's like it's like nostalgia.
Speaker A
It's [clears throat] like I moved out. I live on my own. Obviously going to get married soon.
Speaker A
Um but I'll still go visit my parents and I still enjoy walking through and reminiscing about what my house used to look like before the renovations.
Speaker A
But it's like that doesn't mean I want to move back in. Exactly. It doesn't mean that that place didn't serve me a purpose. It doesn't mean I can't honor the place.
Speaker A
It's it it served what it needed to serve in my life for what the Lord was needing it to do.
Speaker A
Yeah, I was about to say like looking back in and of itself isn't something that you would encourage unless it's to look at what God has done.
Speaker A
So, I I think I preached a sermon about this a couple of months ago. Um but looking back is is never an issue.
Speaker A
But if you're going to look back and in regret and wish you were back there, that's what paralyzes you.
Speaker A
Exactly. Because you have Lot and his wife running from Sodom and Gomorrah. Lot's head down booking it of hey told to move. I'm moving. Lot's wife looks back disregarding the instruction of don't look back and going but I want to go back there
Speaker A
and she gets trapped where reflecting and looking back to what was is healthy. Yeah.
Speaker A
We need to see where the Lord's carried us. It's it's that that um analogy people made a couple of years ago where it's like um when you look down in the sand when you're walking with the Lord, it's
Speaker A
not two feet, it's four. And it's like it's good to look back and see how the Lord's carried you and take courage in that and be encouraged that the Lord's carried me. like when I when I'm when I really struggle
Speaker A
with like am I doing this right? Am I still called to this? Cuz dude, doubt in ministry is a real thing. But even just doubt in any vocation.
Speaker A
Um when you change jobs, it's like, am I even good enough to take this new job?
Speaker A
Like it's a it's a thing. And I always encourage people just take take a second, look back, see where the Lord has carried you because if he's carried you this far so far, I don't think he's just going to up and leave you where you are
Speaker A
right now. Yeah. Especially your during H. I remember like obviously I had money save from like my job that I had to leave to do H, but yo, it got tough. That money that should have lasted me a year, I think only
Speaker A
carried me to August and then boom, money was gone. But then like in that same week when my money was finished, I ended up being like asked out by doing or it's not really OP. It was basically just fetching um two kids from their
Speaker A
school, dropping them at home and like the the money that I got from that was enough to pay for like cuz I saw my my phone was under contract and then petrol and then like food and stuff. So
Speaker A
it carried me through for that the rest of the I was like, "Yo, like in that same week when my money ran out, all of a sudden, boom, job opportunity." I was like, "Yo, this is only the Lord." Like,
Speaker A
absolutely. Like sometimes people don't even they can't fathom things like this where it's like it's not a coincidence cuz it keeps happening. It's not a coincidence. It's a pattern of God's mercy and God's grace showing that if I'm going to call you to
Speaker A
do something, I'm going to give you the tools to succeed. But you can't you can't focus on the how.
Speaker A
Yeah. It's like if you know God is going to deliver you through something, you don't have to be like, "Oh, but how?" was I mean David and Goliath I don't think David was wondering like how am I going
Speaker A
to defeat he just had the attitude of God is with me also prepared like he was also prepared correct but but not in the sense of he was he slain giants before but he took care of sheep exactly he was a shepherd he understood
Speaker A
how to tackle the lions and any other beast that might have it wasn't like a first set of tools that he picked up but again Saul tried to shove him into what the world said he needed to look
Speaker A
like to where Goliath looked at him as like just this kid. Are you serious?
Speaker A
It's funny you brought like that story cuz there something that I noticed about that I always forget to touch on with people is like when David goes to the battlefield that it's like Saul and it's also the soldiers saying like what are
Speaker A
you doing? You're going to get yourself killed. His own brothers, his own brothers as well. But I'm thinking you telling him that he's not ready but you coward but you being a coward over here. So how who are you to
Speaker A
tell this person you shouldn't be here if you don't have the strength to go and fight this battle? And I think it's a lot of times that can happen in the world and maybe even within our church homes where it's like someone else
Speaker A
that's facing doubts is telling you, "Ah, what if the Lord isn't actually telling you to do this?" You know, it's like they casting more doubts on you, but it's kind of they deflecting from their own their own battles, which is the opposite
Speaker A
what we should be. We're supposed to be like casting our burdens onto one another and helping each other carry instead of taking one person's battles and then making it harder for the other person to fight in like, you know, it's like
Speaker A
it's one it's like, how do I explain it actually? It's like one person's fighting a battle and then they make another person battle or instead of saying, "Hey, we're both going through some things. Let's tackle it together because two heads are better than one."
Speaker A
Yeah. Absolutely. Yeah. But that's but again that's just that's what healthy community is. That's what healthy church community is. It's your small groups whether that's at youth or at home. It's like that's what it should be. It's I should be able to come vent
Speaker A
my frustrations or just hey, I'm going through this. That's what those spaces are for when you're able to then oh I can help you or I can't help you but I can give you a hug or I can just pray
Speaker A
with you. M [snorts] that's you since you brought it up like being in a different church there were a lot of things you had to get used to live worshiping one thing but you know I know in faith the time is right like I ear we
Speaker A
will have that back but the other thing that I that I love is because we didn't worship on like through online when the worship team at our main location before the last song they will always say if there's anything you need to pray for go
Speaker A
to the front and our pastors will will come and pray for you I was like that's such a like a what's the word like a game changer because I watched So many different people go up and all our
Speaker A
pastors will be there ready to pray for people. Like it's a simple thing but it goes a long way because it shows that they also have to prepare themselves ahead of time to pray with you.
Speaker A
What does it was another thing you mentioned the healthy community as well like what month was It was a few months back a friend of mine was was out sitting and then invited me and then I know my my
Speaker A
home leader was also there and then another good friend of ours from the group and we're just chatting about like life and then what my what my leader said and that stuck with me. He says like if you look at everyone in our
Speaker A
church in our congregation when one person gets a blessing no one is jealous no one is no there's no spirit of envy because everyone understands our mission is always to reconcile people to Christ is always to preach but we know that
Speaker A
everyone's journey will look a bit different so maybe one day someone will pop up with a new God no one else is going to think it should have been me everyone has the same posture of I'm happy for this person because they've
Speaker A
taken the task the Lord has given them and they're doing their they're doing it diligently they're doing it for the Lord and that's an awesome thing and I think you I feel Like maybe at other churches it doesn't
Speaker A
always translate that way. You can even look at maybe leadership positions. One person might think it should have been me and then it goes to someone else and then your heart grows cold.
Speaker A
That's a real thing. Like Yeah, dude. Like I struggled with it. It's like when when there's an opportunity for whatever there's a a one leader steps down and there's space for you to step up in that area and
Speaker A
you don't get it. It's a it's a real thing. It's it's it's difficult cuz you're like, "But Lord, you said, Lord, you called me to this." And it it's tough cuz it's the human human side of it where you're like, you're
Speaker A
putting in all the effort you think is appropriate and you're working really hard at it and you think you're ready, but it comes back to the thing of the world's not going to give you something to steward and to take care of
Speaker A
and grow if your character isn't there yet. And it's really difficult for us to internally look at ourselves and say, "Oh, you know what? I'm actually not ready for that." Yeah.
Speaker A
We only do that once we're through that phase and through that morning phase. Then we go, "Oh, yeah. No, maybe the Lord was on to something. Maybe I wasn't ready for this position." Yeah.
Speaker A
We are going to take a short break and then we'll get back to this in a moment.
Speaker A
Okay. And welcome back to part two of the episode. I haven't named the series [clears throat] I haven't named. That's life. Uh so we were discussing art postures when it came to leadership positions and how it can be a very what's the term?
Speaker A
It can be a way to expose our own hearts when the positions that we thought we were ready for that we should have gotten you know they go to someone else and it can make us cold. it can make us
Speaker A
treat the church or treat those individuals in a way that is not Christlike. Yeah.
Speaker A
So, that was a very good ending point before we took a little stretch break.
Speaker A
As you can see, there's a cat in the video. Yeah. But yeah, I think my question on that is, have you ever found yourselves in that kind of situation or Oh, absolutely.
Speaker A
Elaborate. Absolutely. It was when you hit that spot. It's like the Lord's called you somewhere and it's that mind that comes back of I want but when and you decide when that when is and ignoring the fact that the Lord's
Speaker A
working in other people that other people have also been called to this that then you go and question why question leadership as to why. But you never actually end up asking the leadership to their face. You end up
Speaker A
just coming to your own conclusions on your own. But yeah, dude, it's it's it's real. Um or it's like you've come to this decision of oh I want to lead let's say young adults but then there's space for a kids pastor or kids
Speaker A
leader to step up and you go no but but young adults that's what I feel called to and then you dismiss the growth opportunity that the Lord's putting in front of you. Yes, it might not look at look like what you want it to look like,
Speaker A
but then you get disgruntled and frustrated, ignoring what the Lord is calling you to right then and there because you're focusing on the end goal.
Speaker A
And we so often lose ourselves and lose the desire to keep pursuing the Lord because we want it our way.
Speaker A
Yeah. And that's the difficult part of of of it. It's that constant challenge of the world saying I need to achieve X Y and Z at this point or seeing other 25year-olds having podcasts being called to preach across
Speaker A
the country and you're just in a local church serving diligently and honestly And there's absolutely nothing wrong with that cuz that's what the Lord's calling you to do right now. But you're comparing yourself to someone else. And I mean,
Speaker A
go through scripture. You're coming across people who've felt um jealous and had envy towards somebody. And look how that's turned out. I mean, Saul was king. I laugh about it all the time. I'm like, Saul, why are you getting upset
Speaker A
that everyone's raving about David? You're literally king. Like, what more do you want? Exactly.
Speaker A
But he still was jealous of David. But the difference between all of that was David had a go had a heart after God's own heart where Saul didn't. Saul wanted that attention from people.
Speaker A
And that's the hard posture that was exposed in Saul. And instead of Saul being like, "Lord, I'm so sorry.
Speaker A
He resorted to going and hunting down David where David messes up, sleeps with Bashibba, kills Uriah, and then his response wasn't, "Oh, no, but why? Is all of this bad things happening to me." He goes, "Lord, I've messed up."
Speaker A
Yeah. He takes responsibility and he owns it and he holds himself accountable. Exactly. I mean, he does proceed to lay on the floor [laughter] and then just lay on the floor. I think just looking at at Saul again, his heart when chosen
Speaker A
for the role of king, his heart is for the Lord. But in taking up that that mantle, it exposed a lot of pride. Yes.
Speaker A
And it exposed what happens when when humans we receive a position of power. Yeah.
Speaker A
And I think also it's it's a testimony to why humans were never meant to hold more power than that.
Speaker A
Even the role of king is it can be dangerous. It can be dangerous. Okay. So look how he treated David who was the next king. He wasn't trying to take the throne in that moment. David said that countless times but Saul was
Speaker A
so tortured by his insecurity. He thought ah if I give him if I give him any opportunity to take me he'll he'll kill me and take the crown. And then David proceeds to prove that that's not the case when he finds Saul in the cave
Speaker A
I think and then he cuts off a piece of his robe and he says if I wanted to strike you down I could have but I'm not going to touch the Lord's anointed. Even when Saul dies, David doesn't think Yagu didn't see. He
Speaker A
tears his robes. He still mourns. He mourns. He sends Saul off in an honorable, respectful way. And then still took some time before he before he was anointed as king.
Speaker A
Exactly. But again, David was anointed in his youth, played music for Saul, still went back into the field and was a shepherd before he was even remotely close to even sniffing the crown, let alone he was near it. He was around it, but he
Speaker A
was serving where God called him to right then and there. I think also what's important with that and maybe people have heard it like many times is just because you've been anointed to something doesn't mean that that's exactly when you're supposed to
Speaker A
step into it. Took David I think what's it 15 20 years before he assumed the mantle.
Speaker A
But he didn't just stop growing. Just because he knew I'm going to be king one day. He knew he still had to grow into it.
Speaker A
Yeah. He he was a shepherd. He became a warrior for the Lord. Yeah. He grew in that until the time came when he took on the mantle of king. He grew in. He needed to grow in favor with both
Speaker A
God and man. He needed to spend time with the Lord, spend time with the people, get to know the people, cuz you can't lead people if you don't know them.
Speaker A
That was something that always I always struggled with, especially in a big church. It's like when it gets so big to the point where leadership in terms of actively posturing people and being in people's lives, it's why we
Speaker A
don't really use past in any any language. Um, Israel is isn't passed to Israel. I mean, on our podcast, sure, I label it as that, but that's just for anyone who's coming across our podcast can understand. Okay, this is this person.
Speaker A
Yeah. But he's senior leader. I'm youth leader. I'm young adults leader. It's not out of anything other than being a pastor is a it's not a position. It's a it's a tit. It's not a title. It's something you are.
Speaker A
It's a responsibility as well. It's it's an act. I'm posturing over people. I'm shephering people. It's not that's Yeah. I think a lot of people miss that that word pastor. I think it's French. It does come from shepherd.
Speaker A
Yeah. And just you mentioned with big churches, I think it can get lost in translation because you can have maybe a congregation of a thousand people, but how does a shepherd know his flock if there's a thousand of them unless he's
Speaker A
able to take the time to get to know each and every one of them, which doesn't always happen at big churches. I think that's been the the responsibility of actively pastoring people gets handed down to other people. It's
Speaker A
like a delegation. Yeah. Get get it gets delegated. It's at that point at that mass you stop being a pastor and you start being a teacher.
Speaker A
And there's absolutely nothing wrong with that. We are people are called to be teachers but not every teacher is a pastor but not and not every pastor is a teacher.
Speaker A
So the five ministry also comes in clutch in these situations. Everyone has a a role in the body of Christ. The you might be let's metaphorically you might be the hand of Christ. You can't want to be the foot because if there's too many
Speaker A
feet then the body is in disjunction. I think I spoke to one of my leaders also about this. It's like if even if you were to say for example lose a limb your body recognizes that it's it's out of
Speaker A
balance. Yeah. It's the same thing. For example, if you for some reason had three arms, your body will recognize that there's an extra limp because now you you're off balance because now it can't walk. It can't walk in tandem because of that.
Speaker A
Yeah. So I think even in our own cases maybe one person wants to serve in one like you said earlier but that's not where they called to.
Speaker A
Yeah. I remember doing was it it's one of the joy of your classes this is like 3 years ago when you even mentioned there might be this scenario where you stand before God and you say Lord I was a pastor I
Speaker A
shephered 500 people and then God says but I called you to be a teacher or I called you to be an accountant. And then you can still you can retor and be like well but I but I led so many people to
Speaker A
you and God also say yeah but that's not what I wanted from you. You would have still led people to me but I called you to go into this business venture. I called you to do this and yo I think I'm
Speaker A
just as guilty of that like thinking my whole yeah I've been saved on now 13 years. For the last 11 years I always thought ministry is what I'm going to go into. And I always thought it just meant
Speaker A
I'm going to be like a full-on pastor and all these things. But there's so many different avenues to ministry. You can be you can be a pastor of a church that capacity.
Speaker A
So this is the beautiful thing. It's the five-fold ministry is are there to equip the saints for the work of the ministry.
Speaker A
That's the full passage. And it's my job as a as someone in vocational ministry. It's my job.
Speaker A
But life exists outside of church. So, it's and this is why I will I I would try my very best to never stop coaching because it brings my heart so much joy being able to day in day out meet with the
Speaker A
young kids um and grow them seeing this grade eight. So, literally the boys I'm coaching now with the first team were the boys I coached when I was um when they were 14. M so now seeing them 5 years on as
Speaker A
children coming in learning the sport growing in their leadership growing in their skill now I'm coaching them at 18 19 17 18 19 and seeing them mature and now I'm going from I'm teaching you a sport now I'm teaching them life lessons
Speaker A
I'm teaching them challenges will come difficulties will come whether that's on the court whether that's in life how do we navigate it.
Speaker A
Yeah. And it's now I'm forming relationships with these people. And that's the that's daily life as teachers, as coaches that you have that access. That's a ministry right there. It's not just, okay, cool.
Speaker A
Yeah, I have a mic and I'm preaching or I'm running a home cell. Like, that's great. Church environments are fantastic to cultivate that leadership, but it goes elsewhere.
Speaker A
Yeah. It's not just what happens on a Sunday, but how does that how do you take it with you into that is this?
Speaker A
Exactly. Like you could be a manager. So you have people that you're leading. Yes. In a corporate sense, but what if something goes ary and that person legitimately needs pastoral care?
Speaker A
And it's not a pastoral care in can you pray for me. It's pastoral care in caring for the person that's in front of you. M like I love I love this like the fact that we're just chatting but this is literally how
Speaker A
I also just navigate like my pastoral meetings literally go to a coffee shop sit down with the person and we just talk cuz that's what it is. People want to be heard. People want to be seen and in
Speaker A
vocational ministry I have the joy of being able to do that. Yeah. But so do you.
Speaker A
You get to chat to your colleagues all the time. And if someone needs advice, you can be there for them. You can walk that journey with them, you know. Yeah. And I get to do like a fair bit of that to be honest. Like
Speaker A
working in customer service. Most of the time I'm talking to people that I I'll never see face to face, but in the moments in between I'm talking to I mean I've got colleagues on the left and the right and like all around me every now
Speaker A
and then, you know, like we can talk about faith and and church. And there's a there's a sweet lady that works in our team. She's she's very good at helping people with very good like customers especially. She's always trying to she
Speaker A
goes above and beyond basically to help and that's why she always gets such good statistics when it comes to customer feedback but obviously in technological science she can struggle a bit. So what started as me just helping her like
Speaker A
navigate how to open this program how to make this load faster as an example how to make this work. Eventually, we started getting on the topic of like of church and she told me about her journey and she'll ask me questions every now
Speaker A
and then and I'm like whenever she asks a question I'll drop what I'm doing cuz I'm like this is important.
Speaker A
Yeah. And I always make sure that because yes, she's maybe a decent bit older than me, but I will still, you know, I'll show respect as an as an older individual, but at the same time almost like she's wise enough to
Speaker A
understand the words that I'm saying. So I don't have to like dumb it down.
Speaker A
Yeah. So I can be very like more open I want to say how [laughter] I Yeah. You can be more direct. Yeah.
Speaker A
Exactly. Cuz she asked me like my questions on certain certain movements and whatnot. And I gave my honest feedback and I think it really helped her.
Speaker A
I think it also she even said like it stood out to her that someone for example me who's young as a 26 year old.
Speaker A
I'm still young. She you know you know from her perspective she doesn't see young people on fire for the Lord.
Speaker A
Oh yeah. And I'm like, but again, that is also like it's tough like young people young people are it's such a contrast cuz you have people who are like so anti Christianity anti-faith.
Speaker A
Exactly. Um but hey, they're worshiping something, bro. And but then you get the other side where it's like they're so on fire, but we're missing each other cuz nobody wants to have a conversation anymore. Just like you have these young adults, these um
Speaker A
young people wanting to they see ministry as vocational. Yeah. And they're like, "Cool. Yes, I want to go do that." Like, "Yes, the Lord's calling me to this. Yes, I want to invest into people. Yes, I want to pour
Speaker A
out into them." And then they think that is vocational. So it means they got to go to a college, they got to go study, they got to get their um theology degree, they got to get their um their documents and they have to do all
Speaker A
of that where it's like you can do that right right here. Like yes, I think you everyone everyone I've said this multiple times and I think we've had this conversation. I think every person every Christian should be an expert on the faith. I
Speaker A
don't think that only people with theology degrees or have spent hours diving into scripture, reading early church father texts, um doing monastic practices. I don't think the only people doing that are your pastors, your monks, your nuns. I don't think those people
Speaker A
should be the only people doing that. I think every single Christian should I think every Christian should do a Bible crash course. I think every Christian should do um a free course from whoever.
Speaker A
Yeah. Because it's only going to benefit you. Like read Spurgeon, read CS Lewis. Read Killer. Like I'm not even going to go that far back. I mean Lewis is still very much still the goat.
Speaker A
But yeah, read if you don't want to read heavy theological texts, read Chronicles of Narnia. like genuinely. [laughter] [snorts] But do it. Read Toer. Like if you want something a little more relational, then read a Danny Silk. Like
Speaker A
books like these exist for enriching the saints. Like the five-fold exists to again like we said like to empower the saints to do the work of the ministry. I walk into a room and people ask me what what I do for a living and I say I'm a
Speaker A
pastor. There's already a preconceived notion about who I am, what I believe, how I think, but you go and sit into sit in an office and yes, cool. You say you're a Christian and people already have these assumptions, but people have a lot more
Speaker A
aggressive assumptions about me than they would about you. I'd say the closer that I got to that was during the period being a song. Like it felt so weird telling someone, "Oh, I got the Hill Song." Because then again
Speaker A
the preconceived notion of ah that means you believe in this kind of this kind of movement you have like that's it was rough. I don't I don't get that now but it also makes me wonder like maybe at other churches as well there's also
Speaker A
the preconceived notion that I'm like sometimes maybe the problem could be with the church and how they present themselves but at the other end it can also reflect themselves the worldly culture can also be like the heart posture of those
Speaker A
individuals. If let's say someone says, "Oh, I go to a Bethl church." And a a secular individual's reaction is just to like be disgusted. That shows also a lot of where their heart is at.
Speaker A
Absolutely. And and I've always encouraged this. Someone said this to my dad many years ago and I never understood it at the time, but now whenever like it comes up in conversation and we laugh about it, I've [snorts] always been like, "No,
Speaker A
actually, you know what? That's not a bad thing." They they my dad was questioning some things purely practical things nothing theologically deep just pure practically [snorts] and they were like you're such a critical spirit and I and I told my dad
Speaker A
the other day I'm like you remember when that person said you had a critical spirit good because if you're not willing to question things then you're not thinking there's that other saying if you're not willing to stand for anything then you'll fall for
Speaker A
anything. Yeah. It's just an everything slide in Yeah. It's the same thing of like having questions or questioning scripture, questioning a theologian, questioning an early church father.
Speaker A
That's just as much valid faith as praying in tongues as seeing someone healed. It's the same thing. Cuz if you're not going to question it, you're not going to be able to grasp it. And if you aren't able to
Speaker A
grasp it, you can't defend it. Exactly. I think whenever people hear the word question, they automatically think that you don't want it to be true.
Speaker A
Whereas I think it's more the thing of you need to be curious enough to find out like it's not just question like why do we do this but go into go into the history like said read the early church
Speaker A
fathers find out why is that we do things the way we do. Why is it that we practice or say things a certain way it's it's good and just touching on the thing of books like it's good to read to
Speaker A
and Louis but they should never replace the scriptures. Oh, absolutely. They're they're companion buddies as I like to call it. So, it's like for example, like at a church, we hold tradition very high because there's a reason for it. Like communion,
Speaker A
love, love the little cup, the pre-built cup and the thing. Love it. Love the the heart behind it. When the company started, it was to get it out to as many people as possible. Love it.
Speaker A
Do I find more value When I'm receiving communion, this is purely personal. I've do I find more value when it's presented in a chalice a little bit.
Speaker A
I love how at church it's not we do communion once a month. M ideally it would be every week but practically [laughter] speaking once like I would hope every week but I can also once a month but when it's once a
Speaker A
month it's we set up a side table we light the candles we pray over it um as we pouring the juice as we putting out the crackers like it's all of those things and when we do pray in service
Speaker A
it's not take your little cup of juice take the bread. It's in three like sets.
Speaker A
So, juice uh wafers, juice, wafers, juice, wafers. And before we start, we finish off worship and we then proceed to made our own little twist on it. But we read the the original Anglican liturgy. We've reworked the language to be a little bit
Speaker A
more modern um in terms of just like less old English and just more easily understandable. Thus sayith the Lord.
Speaker A
Yes. But JV, but it's built off of the the Anglican liturgy and we read it all the way from the top. We do the Lord's Prayer before we have communion. We do um we do the Apostles Creed before we have it because
Speaker A
it's true. The mysteries of the communion is the thing that feeds our souls. And if we relegated it to a little cup and a little juice, that's a little meal that we get to have. So great, I skipped breakfast, so I have a
Speaker A
little something in my stomach. Then we've lost the miracle of it. That's the body and that is the blood. I people can have their their beliefs on whether um it's there's a metaphysical change in it that as we pray that it does become the
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body and the blood or if it's just uh metaphorical. I lean more metaphysical. But that's just my personal beliefs. But there's value to it and that's not something you want to skip on.
Speaker A
Yeah. But if it makes you happy then that then that works for you. But it is really important to know the history like we've Christianity hasn't been around in didn't just appear in the last 200 years. This has been around for two
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2,000 years. And if you're going to go even further back longer, if you're going to rope in um Judaism as it led into what is now Christianity, cuz everyone always assumes there's two separate things about like you said, Judaism led into
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Christianity. It was never meant to be. Christianity is the fulfillment of the of the Jewish promise. And yes, you have the contrast right now. We have your Orthodox Jews that it ends in the Torah.
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And then you have your Messianic Jews, which are Jews that fully believe that it's the full completion.
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And that's perfectly fine. If they still want to pray that way, then let them pray that way. I'm I'm not God. I can't tell them that they're praying wrong. But I can say I believe every word that left Jesus's mouth.
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Exactly. And if people want to argue about it, how legit it is, that's so fine. There are ample documents that say I'm fine.
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But yeah, like like we were saying, sorry, but it's got to know where you come from. Like I love on my bookshelf.
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Literally, I'm looking at it now. I have a It's cute. There's a lot of books there. Yeah. Um, but I have my grandmother's from my dad's side, her Anglican book of common prayer, which I sit with at least twice a day
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cuz I just love reading it. And then I have um my great grand's Catholic book of prayer.
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So I have two of the not Catholic, [laughter] very much not Catholic. There's a disclaimer out there for the Owens, but I I I still love to have it.
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Do I go through it? Not as often as the the Anglican one, but it's the best. When we do baptisms, I literally will stand above the pool cuz we do baptisms in in an actual pool, like a school pool. But even that, like
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I will stand with my book of common prayer and read the baptism liturgy that's there to prepare my heart. M we don't read it to the people but it's to prepare me. It's that I'm also entering this water as I baptize this
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person. I'm not getting baptized again. The joke is you can't repickle a pickle. Yeah.
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But [laughter] but it's still sacred water. It's still something holy that I'm going to enter in and it's an act that I'm standing in Perno Christi in person.
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I'm a representative of Christ in that as I'm baptizing this person. That is not a thing you take lightly.
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Yeah. Yo, actually on that note because like my church there are baptisms on Yeah. Last week Saturday at the beach was awesome to be to be a part of and to serve help capturing the moment. But like those are the best. Beach baptisms are
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so fun, bro. With the like it's Musenburg and you're thinking it's early morning. You think ah it's going to be super cold. It was actually nice and warm. It's like the Lord prepared it for us. But I remember
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speaking to one of my friends afterwards and like I even told him I was like yo even though I got baptized 13 years ago and I know I did it for the right reasons it's only doing what we have as
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our spiritual growth course at my church which is like how you prepare yourself to join for me was more of like a crash refresher crash course [laughter] I knew but just going through it again I was like now I
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actually understand it a bit better especially with baptism because it's it's representative of the fact that as you go into the water you you it's your funeral basically you saying goodbye to your old Yeah, you emerging out of the water as the new
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creation in Christ. And it's also meant to be like done with the reflection of Christ. You're going into the water as representative of him dying on the cross.
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You come out of the water as him coming out of the tomb. He's defeated death.
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And it's because of that that we have the new the new life, the new life of salvation freedom.
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And I was like, why did I never think of it like when when I did the first time?
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And it like I don't know if it ticks me off, but I just it makes me ask questions when I see like when people get rebaptized and I'm like that's not really so so that's the thing. I'm like I have
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no problem for a rededication of your baptism. That's yeah perfectly fine. That but it's that language of a rededication. So for example, we did a trip to Israel.
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I want to say two two years ago. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Like 2 years. M Yeah. Oh, no. Longer. Like 3 years ago. Nearly 3 years ago.
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Yes. I want to say um no 2024 would have been May of 23. Anyway, the calendar will corate us.
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[laughter] We we did we did we did an is we did an Israel trip and we went to the Jordan River.
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Yeah. The the river that separates Jordan and Israel. You can literally stand on the bank and you can look across and you can literally see the Jordanian flag flying off like a a castle which is so dope.
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Yeah. But we redid I didn't but um I was camera guy but um cuz there were three of us. So um Israel Kune they did the physical baptisms. I was camera guy.
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Um cuz K was too scared to hold the camera cuz we're like waist deep in water. So he's like if I drop this I'm like I got you bro.
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That's how I felt the last week of Baptist was I had the strap around me and I bro it's [laughter] stress stress dude [gasps] like the water splash and I'm like Lord you are my Lord is my shepherd I shall not my camera will not
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get [laughter] literally just in those moments but lit. So then we the people that were on the tour they wanted to get baptized. We like we're not going to stop these people. So we we rededicated baptisms. No one,
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one person, it was their baptism. They're very, they've never been baptized before and that was really special. But everyone else also like rededicated their baptisms. And we use that language of it's a rededication.
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This is a a um a landmark moment in terms of the Israelites crossed um the Red Sea out of Egypt and they put up an alt they put up a little altar, a little landmark.
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Then further down along the line, they went through a battle and they put up another mark and it's to remember that first place.
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So, a rededication of your baptism is perfectly fine if it's for the thing of I'm redoing this not as a supplement for my previous baptism, but it's to remember what it is. It's the same hard posture of why we do communion.
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It's to remember the sacrifice. It's to remember my commitment to him. It's again, it's the same thing as redoing your vows.
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Yeah. The people redoing their vows. to the married people. It's going to be me soon. It's going to be you like in a few months basically in a while.
Speaker A
A little while also soon for me. We'll we'll figure it out. Just get you a girlfriend [snorts] then.
Speaker A
One step at a time, boss. Soon in faith, I believe. [snorts] Um yeah, that was good. I think just before we end our I think just one question comes to mind for maybe new people that have hopefully watched till
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the end. I'm going to be looking through the record of this. Um, but I want to say for people that might be in, let's say they planted in the church, um, but the Lord is calling them into a new
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season and maybe they're a bit too scared cuz, um, I know there's a lot of people that might be like that right now.
Speaker A
Yeah. What would your your advice be to them on how to how to get out of it and how to definitely I would say definitely seek counsel and the and the right counsel.
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Yeah. Genuinely in my transition out I had two different kind of voices. I had the voices being like the doubtful ones.
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Um the are you sure the um before you leave you need to do this this and this.
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Putting arbitrary roadblocks in the way. But then I would have other voices that are like let me go and pray about it and I'll get back to you. met up with him the next week and he was like, "Okay, I I I I I
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feel it. I think it's it's time that the Lord I feel I also sense that the Lord's calling you into a different area literally." Then he proceeded to get in contact with Israel and now they meet they have a phone call like at least
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once a month just to ask how any it's to check in on me. He's like, "How's how's Seth doing?" And I'm like, that's that's care.
Speaker A
Yeah, that's the intentionality of it. So, the heart of a shepherd as well. Yeah. It's the company you keep.
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But definitely my advice would be go find some counsel. Multiple people. Don't find one person.
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Also to clarify, wise council. Wise council. Don't go to church [laughter] or or any of the other sites.
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Yes. That you can ask questions. Don't ask people on Twitter as well. Yeah. to people, not just people that you trust, but people that are going to give you the truth, not just what you want to hear.
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Exactly. Yeah. So, find some counsel, wise counsel, spend time in prayer. And my biggest advice practically, don't move. Don't leave if you don't have a place to go.
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Yeah. Don't get stuck in limbo. The biggest biggest thing is you need to be able to leave one place well and enter into a new space just as well. And doing that in the right heart posture with the
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right intentions and having having the right community being able to find the right community. I visited churches where [snorts] Kula wasn't the biggest fan of picky me very picky wasn't a fan of how they structured their service but the community part was fantastic.
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Sure. Found a church that wasn't great sermon structure, great worship structure, service great not the best at community.
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Yeah. But I could at least find people in that community and now I get to also be that change and do it better.
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And yeah, I think the biggest thing is keep praying whenever you go into an area of Lord, show me if this is where you need me to be.
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Definitely. And I will say before you make that jump as well and before making any decision, keep yourself in a position to be prepared by the Lord. Like don't stop growing just because you're in a season of transition. take that time to continue
Speaker A
grow when you move you're already I mean just ending off there's a story I remember what's it that really popular Instagram dude that spoke on it where that's helpful that's helpful you understand now he says um uses the story of there's a man
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out in a field and he has the option before him you can be with the Lord on the one side or he can be with the devil on the other side and there's a fence in between and he kind of gets a taste of both sides
Speaker A
And because he likes both of it, he wants to have like he wants to have his cake and eat it too.
Speaker A
Eventually, he's like, I can't decide. So, I'm going sit on the fence so I can get a bit of both. And then the devil grabs him and says, h, you mine now. And this guy's like, what? No, you can't do
Speaker A
that. I'm sitting on the fence. And then the devil says, I own the fence. So lukewarm.
Speaker A
Yeah, exactly. [laughter] Complacency is not the answer. M even with I think the last thing to touch on when it comes to lukewarm everyone assumes it means that be hot or cold in the sense that either be on fire
Speaker A
for the Lord or not at all but that's not the heart of the Lord. What he's saying in terms of starting context was this was written to the people of Leodysia.
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Yeah. And in their particular time water and cold water served the purpose but lukew could do nothing.
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It's the same for us. If you want to be planted in church, if you want to do something for the Lord, you have to do it with the purpose. If you're just sitting on one spot, one spot being
Speaker A
stagnant, you aren't the Lord won't use you. But having the right community around you will other calls keep each other going.
Speaker A
Yeah, we can you can be blitz. That's so fine. You can be a fire starter all you like. But as soon as you've served your purpose, and you've run out of fuel, the blitz dies, but a piece of coal can stay burning if
Speaker A
it's surrounded by other coals that are also on fire. Yeah. And it's something that my pastor said months back and when you said it, I was like, "Yo, this man is cooking me." And it's such a simple [laughter] thing.
Speaker A
I never thought that you said um the drain that brings the water is always wet. means that if the Lord is using you to fulfill his glory, you're the cup that he's going to keep using, which means you're always going
Speaker A
to be wet. You're always going to be filled with what he wants to do.
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Yeah. So, you can't allow yourself to be empty if he's using you. So, if you feel empty, just question your heart in a in a loving way. But it comes down to as well, seek wise counsel.
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And I think the most obvious thing, and we always forget this, you can ask God for help. You can be but be specific.
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I've had so many curses asking God for something and I was I wasn't specific enough. So he gave me what I asked for but not in the way I expected and I was like yeah but also also but being content
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with okay I didn't get it in the way or in the manner that I that I asked but still being like okay the Lord's doing something here.
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Yeah. So I'm thankful for it. Yeah, dude. But that's that's good. And yeah, I think in closing, it it comes down to seek the Lord, seek his guidance.
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Yeah. Ask him to reveal the next steps, but don't do it without the word of God because yo, I think I just read two Psalms this morning and that made my whole day. Psalm 16 and Psalms 61. But
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yo, even in now short, I was like, this is amazing. Imagine if you that that was just after five or 10 minutes but if you spend more time with him daily you'll see how he how he reaches out to people
Speaker A
and yeah I think again in closing if you guys need help if you need someone to turn to you can come to myself you come to Seth or my Instagram's public so please Seth was your bro literally just my name Seth [laughter]
Speaker A
literally bro best thing about it there you have it so thank you guys for tuning in whenever you guys watch us I don't know when I'm posting But yeah, stay blessed and have a good one.
Topics:Seth Scheepersyouth pastorchurch plantingGood Hope Churchfaith journeyyouth ministryHillsongFather's Housespiritual growthChristian leadership
