Speaker A
So, it seems that Games Workshop have decided that some of the new Space Marine rules are so overpowered that they need an emergency adjustment. It seems that we're already getting nerfed to units before official points are out.
Games Workshop issues emergency nerfs to Space Marine units before official points release, focusing on Lionel Johnson and Death Watch Terminators.
Key Takeaways
- Games Workshop is proactively adjusting points to address balance issues before official release.
- Lionel Johnson’s points increase reflects his powerful and durable profile, though he remains strong.
- Death Watch Terminators’ points increase balances their elite damage potential.
- The preview and rapid nerf process is unusual and may become a pattern for future releases.
- Community feedback plays a significant role in influencing these emergency balance changes.
What the video covers
- Games Workshop is making emergency adjustments to some overpowered Space Marine units before official points are released.
- Previewed points costs for certain units, including Lionel Johnson and Death Watch Terminators, have been increased following community feedback.
- Lionel Johnson received a significant points increase from 335 to 415 points due to his high durability and powerful abilities.
- The Death Watch Terminators also saw a points increase to balance their strong damage output and survivability.
- This approach of previewing points and then adjusting them quickly is unusual and has caused some confusion among players.
- The changes aim to prevent units from being broken for months and improve overall game balance.
- Games Workshop’s communication and use of affiliated content creators to share preview points has been criticized for inconsistency.
- The video also references a previous similar situation with the Ork Wasbomb Blaster Jet, which had a points increase after preview.
- Despite the nerfs, some units like Lionel Johnson remain very strong and potentially auto-include in competitive lists.
- The video is sponsored by Warmarmac, which offers magnetic transport solutions for miniatures.
Chapters
- 00:00Introduction to Emergency Points Nerfs
- 00:52Games Workshop’s Quick Points Changes
- 01:40Issues with Communication and Preview Points
- 02:17Benefits and Drawbacks of Early Nerfs
- 02:58Example: Ork Wasbomb Blaster Jet Points Increase
- 03:42Detailed Look at Lionel Johnson’s Changes
- 04:29Points Increase Impact on Lionel Johnson’s Role
- 05:16Death Watch Terminators Points Adjustments
- 07:40Summary and Final Thoughts on Balance Changes
- 09:16Sponsor Message: Warmarmac Magnetic Transport Solutions
Full Transcript — Download SRT & Markdown
Speaker A
So, let's talk about the issues and what's being changed. This video is sponsored by Warmarmac, suppliers of some cheap and effective magnetic transport solutions for wargame miniatures with their own takes on the really useful box-style design and
Speaker A
the sheets to go within it. Check them out, link down in the video description or otherwise I'll cycle back to them at the end of the video. Hello and welcome back to All Tactics, where today we're talking about Games Workshop's unusual
Speaker A
points changes happening to previewed points. Over the past few days or so, the Space Marines have been rather relentless, having the full codex leak, then a whole bunch of points and digital detachments previewed by Games Workshop's affiliated content creators and now
Speaker A
pretty quickfire after that. It seems that we're already getting some of those previewed points costs changed. Earlier on Monday, it looks like a few of these creators reported that Games Workshop had decided to make changes and informed the content creators that they were
Speaker A
doing so, people saying that a couple of creators such as Lavosta Horus and Tabletop Battles just sharing that Games Workshop had told them that a couple of units were increasing. Basically, Games Workshop has decided to make two points
Speaker A
changes since their preview mun. Guess after they've received community feedback/backlash just for a couple of their more obvious slip-ups where their units looked really quite strong for the cost and seems they've chosen to make the changes prior
Speaker A
to the actual official points going out rather than giving us a month or so of certain units being very, very strong and then nerfing, as often tends to be the case. Once again, it does feel all very weird with Games Workshop's
Speaker A
communication of rules like this. Kind of interesting that they give out the preview points in the first place before the actual points go live and then are sufficiently uncertain about those points costs to the point where their affiliated content creators circulate
Speaker A
the information and then a day or two later the points costs go out of date.
Speaker A
It's not exactly the most helpful for average players trying to keep up with this given that there'll be a lot of points circulated and then talked about. Most of them wind up being accurate though, a few choice ones might
Speaker A
not be. On the other hand though, it's definitely not all bad if the choice is between this and having to deal with certain units being a bit broken for a few months and sometimes potentially making the game less enjoyable both for
Speaker A
players of the faction and people playing against them. You definitely could argue that this could be one way in which Games Workshop could catch some of their worst mistakes before the actual points go live officially. I'm sure some people might not exactly be
Speaker A
too crazy about the idea of using the community as a beta test rather than doing the playtesting to get the points right out the gate. I'd guess there's some chance this could be the pattern going forward though. We had this happen
Speaker A
with the Wasbomb Blaster Jet for the Orcs. The scary mech plane had ignored cover and a lot of extra firepower was looking pretty decent as an aircraft.
Speaker A
Its previewed points were 175 points, but by the time that Games Workshop actually came to update the points cost, it went up to 215. As a result, we haven't really tended to see them in too many Ork army lists. I can perhaps see
Speaker A
why they did that as Orcs are looking really quite powerful to start with. Though maybe does feel like they went overdramatic with the points cost just because it's an aircraft and they still don't seem to like those being good. The
Speaker A
pattern of the releases aside, let's get on to the changes. And I feel like it's basically no surprise that the first one comes to Lionel Johnson, who I think just about anyone who is familiar with Warhammer rules could basically tell you
Speaker A
was looking like the most obvious broken thing out of the whole Space Marine update. Absolutely spectacular buffs to his abilities and base stat line, but then very little points increased for that. As we know, he went up to 16
Speaker A
wounds and a three-plus invulnerable save retained from the Emperor Shield and toughness 10. An absolutely horrendous stat line to have to deal with given that Primarks get the lone operative near other infantry units and one of the best ways to deal with Lionel
Speaker A
Johnson was already countered due to him having a four-plus feel no pain type save against mortal wounds. It was mainly the big increase to 16 wounds that was the dramatic thing there as he already had the previous abilities
Speaker A
available to him but obviously absolutely no small thing to make an already tricky model to remove essentially 2/3 more durable for only a small points increase. Otherwise, for his changes, he had brought buffs to a lot of his supporting roles, cleave two on his
Speaker A
melee and a pistol buffed his feel no pain type save aura, arguably got a bit better. It drops down to a five-plus against mortal wounds but works against psychic as well and that's quite a big deal in 11th edition with lots of people
Speaker A
picking up psychic weapons to ignore cover. They did lock his melee rerolls to Dark Angel keyword units, but they added a big doctrine buff as well, allowing him to flip out to a different doctrine. So, permanent advance and
Speaker A
charge or fall back and charge if you'd like it. Basically, for all those increases, people were speculating a points cost of 400 points or more. The profile looks like it's going to be a fairly brutal, unfriendly one to play
Speaker A
against at just about any points cost really, but certainly seemed pretty mad when we found out he was 335 points. He was 265 points before and in borderline auto-include territory for the Dark Angels to gain 2/3 extra durability and
Speaker A
extra defense against psychic attacks and being able to manipulate his own combat doctrines was all a spectacular stack of buffs for just plus 70 points and it did seem he had the potential to be a bit broken. Now though, for the
Speaker A
points increase, he's gone up to 415 points. So the same points cost as Roboute Guilliman. And despite Guilliman having his rather nice roll aura and ability to command doctrines nearby, I think a lot more people were rating the
Speaker A
Lionel as just the stronger datasheet full stop. And even at 415 points, taking a further big 80 point increase,
Speaker A
a fair few people are saying that he still looks rather auto-included. And certainly against certain factions, he looks like he's going to be rather problematic. Say Thousand Sons and Grey Knights where most of their attacks are either psychic or mortals. Just being
Speaker A
able to get a permanent four-plus feel no pain against all of those attacks looks like he's going to be near unkillable. At 415 points though, certainly feels like he's more of a choice than an absolute auto-include. At
Speaker A
first impressions, I'd guess that not every single Dark Angels list will choose to include him just because when you get to that kind of level you are passing up on a pretty significant amount of other stuff and there are some
Speaker A
limits to what any one 400-plus point model can actually kill in a game due to the amount of fight phases he can get in. Never mind if the opponent manages to screen him a bit. That does seem like
Speaker A
one of the models that if you did commit to him, his presence is almost certainly going to be a very hard time for certain factions. Will be interesting to see whether he is truly auto-include at this or whether it does actually wind up
Speaker A
being a good take or leave versus having his equivalent points in a whole bunch more Space Marines. Overall, still looking like scary stuff, though. I guess certainly you're not going to have the criticism of the Lionel not feeling
Speaker A
impactful enough. When he first released, it often te...
Speaker A
The other change came to the Death Watch Terminators, and these were another unit that were looking really quite strong.
Speaker A
I'd seen some people theory crafting about them between their raw stats and the combos that they can get with the Death Watch support force added into other more general purpose armies. All the changes for the terminators perhaps one of the biggest ones with gaining
Speaker A
toughness six so not wounded as easily by quite a chunk of weapons there. They have the new terminator profiles with the punchier stormbbolters. Chain fist will be more effective and thunder hammers buffed up to damage three. The cyclone missile launcher got far damage
Speaker A
D3 plus three that also went up to plus 10 points. Now the thing that really seems to be getting a bit of talk was the plasma cannon which got upgra damage three. I think it was reported at strength 10. dinosaur from one of the
Speaker A
previews. And unlike the cyclone missile launcher, that one remained a free option to a whole bunch of high strength damage and higher AP attacks to take massive chunks out of enemy elite infantry. Even the hazardous roles, which were quite a major thing back in
Speaker A
10th edition, just don't matter quite as much in 11th when you can catch them on other terminators. Initially, their points cost was 175 points, which maybe didn't feel quite as ridiculous if you were taking the cyclone missiles, which
Speaker A
still seem like a scary option given that you keep the stormb bolter there, but with the plasma cannons did seem rather intense. 15 points less than the regular tactical variety. Though those ones do get the fury, the first extra
Speaker A
AP, which is a super big deal on their stormb bolters and helps in melee. It seems that Games Workshop decided at the very least they should not be cheaper than the regular tactical terminators if they're getting these punchy plasma
Speaker A
cannons thrown in. And as a result, looks like their increased stat line went up to 190 points or 380. Though still at first impressions, that seems rather solid with the generalist damage output that they can put out. It still
Speaker A
looks like they could be a weirdly efficient addin thing to another space bin list with one detachment point worth of death watch maybe giving a couple of kill teams the rather powerful and dangerous mission tactics layered on to
Speaker A
whatever else he had going on with the other detachments that that's still going to be an interesting thing both for the terminators and the other kill teams. I guess it's just whether or not the value of that is enough to justify
Speaker A
those buffs only being locked to one contingent of your army. Though I really wouldn't be too surprised if it was.
Speaker A
Overall, as mentioned, does feel like a bit of a weird delivery where you're hearing things secondhand. Both from initial points and then apparently initial balance patches, too. Though overall, both of these changes seem like very good ones for game balance. Two
Speaker A
units that I think were pretty easy to argue were clearly under costers and games workshops at least push them in the right direction by a good chunk.
Speaker A
Still looks like both of these will be very strong indeed and towards the more powerful end of the power spectrum.
Speaker A
That's it for this one though. Before I go, I'll just give a quick shout out to today's video sponsor in Warwag and talk briefly about their range of magnetic storage boxes with their own takes on the really useful box style design.
Speaker A
Really useful boxes are sturdy, lightweight plastic containers that are able to be stacked. really quite nice things to transport Warhammer miniatures as a result. And Warm Mag sell some all-in-one combos of the common DIY approach to magnetic storage, putting
Speaker A
sticky rubber metal sheets on the ground floor of them, so your miniatures with magnets on the bases are held in place.
Speaker A
Their offerings have a whole range of different colors of these boxes along with the right size sheets to go in them. And those sheets also have the option for a bit of personalization as well, different printed colors that you
Speaker A
could try and match to your faction. As well as that, they also have some other offerings such as double-decker storage boxes and some other takes as well, including selling all the base supplies quite cheap individually. Beyond that, they also sell an option for mounting
Speaker A
magnets to model bases. These ones done as sticky pads that fill the space under the base, and you can cut them to size as well. If you'd like to check them out, there'll be links down in the video
Speaker A
description below. And a big thank you to them for sponsoring this one. Feel free to subscribe to Allspe Tactics if you'd like to see more like this. I'll certainly keep the regular 40k videos coming with new ones out just about
Speaker A
every day. If you've been enjoying the videos on the channel, Bets Tactics does have a Patreon page as well, and you can find that linked below. Channel patrons get a few advantages, seeing certain videos early, regular votes to see what
Speaker A
sort of things happen next on the channel and automatic entry into the regular prize giveaways with a chance to win some big model kits each month. If any of that sounds good to you, or you'd just like to help support, the links
Speaker A
down below. In any case, a massive thank you for listening and I'll hope to see you guys next time.
Topics:Games WorkshopWarhammer 40kSpace Marinespoints nerfLionel JohnsonDeath Watch Terminatorsgame balancepreview pointswargamingminiatures
