Dr. Mark Thornton (Mises Institute) discusses an overvalued US tech-led stock market, Fed-driven credit booms, global unrest, and Austrian business cycle theory on Crowded Market Report.
Key Takeaways
- Concentrated tech-led valuations in US indexes resemble past bubbles, and investors in broad index funds may already be heavily exposed.
- Central bank credit expansion has historically driven technology-led boom-bust cycles, and the same pattern may be playing out now.
- Geopolitical instability and cross-border economic stress are compounding risks for investors and the broader global economy.
- Opportunities may exist outside overvalued sectors (small and mid caps, some international markets), and cash can be a reasonable position in the current climate.
- Thornton advises personal responsibility and caution in light of policy failures and uncertain economic conditions.
What the video covers
- Host Jason (Crowded Market Report) welcomes Dr. Mark Thornton, a classically trained Austrian economist with the Mises Institute, to discuss risks in the economy.
- Thornton argues the US stock market is very overvalued, with the Shiller CAPE ratio at levels seen only in 1929 and 1999, and heavy concentration in a handful of tech companies.
- He notes that technological booms (canals, railroads, electrification, the dot-com era) have historically been amplified by central bank credit expansion, producing bubbles that leave investors holding losses.
- Thornton points to Iran-related tensions, unrest across Europe (France, Germany, Italy), the Ukraine situation, and government emergency preparedness messaging in the UK and US as sources of uncertainty.
- He argues that bond and currency conditions add to systemic risk, and that government inflation, taxation, regulation and policy mistakes compound the problem.
- Thornton describes a roughly 40-year downtrend in interest rates (1981 to 2021) that is now reversing, and questions whether the Fed can keep supporting markets.
- The discussion covers public dissatisfaction with government and generational economic angst, particularly among young people facing difficult prospects.
- Thornton suggests that lower interest rates primarily benefit asset holders, while working-class populations gain little, fueling populist discontent.
- He remarks that revolutions tend to be destructive rather than productive, and that government deficit spending is unsustainable over time.
- Thornton stresses personal responsibility alongside criticism of banks and policymakers, and promotes Mises Institute resources, including free book giveaways.
Chapters
- 00:00Sponsor Intro and Guest Welcome
- 01:00Overview of Current Global Risks
- 03:20Stock Market Overvaluation and AI Boom
- 06:40Historical Tech Bubbles and Central Bank Credit
- 13:20Interest Rate Trends and Fed Policy
- 20:00Public Discontent and Generational Angst
- 30:00Wealth Distribution and Policy Effects
- 43:20Personal Responsibility and Closing Remarks
Full Transcript — Download SRT & Markdown
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This video is brought to you by Kelshi, CMR's first official [music] sponsor. Learn more about their perpetual futures contracts like the S&P 500, gold, and Bitcoin by clicking the link in the [music] video description, which helps support CMR and allows us to continue to
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publish free premium content. Thank you. Okay. Hello. Today's Thursday, October 29th 2026. Today I have joining me Dr. Mark Thornton who is an economist with the Mises Institute and he's a very classically trained I believe Austrian economist and um active libertarian
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which obviously earns him a place in my heart. Um so he has been suggested to us uh by some of our members and so we were lucky enough to uh have him come and join us and tell us what's going on. So uh Dr. Thornton
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or Mark, welcome. Jason, it's great to be with you. So, why don't we just go uh right into And by the way, you know, as I don't script things, so if it looks like I'm writing things down and I'm not paying
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attention, it's strictly because I'm taking notes so that I can have good things to follow up with cuz we don't have this scripted. I get a lot of comments from people like, "Oh, it looks like Jay is not even paying attention to
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this person. It's very rude." But I do the same thing. Yeah. Right. So, [laughter] it's not it's not that I'm not paying attention.
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It's actually that I am paying attention and I want to have some good follow-up stuff. So anyway, why don't we we go right into it. What what the hell's going on?
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Wow, Jason. I mean, a lot is going on. Yeah, typically when I talk about risks in the economy, it's something that's pretty unlikely to happen in the short run and may not even happen in the long run or may only
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happen as a trend rather than a discrete crashlike situation. Um, but right now we have a lot going on. We have a very very overvalued stock market in the US that is really teetering. Uh you know the techled
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stock markets the tech stocks that have led have ballooned in size in these funds or in the indexes the ETFs etc.
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And then we have the whole Iranian situation which I've been talking about for quite a while. And uh those consequences are of course very important in the short run um and looming in the intermediate run.
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And but I have a feeling that a lot of the consequences are going to be longlasting and very negative on not just the world economy but you know in particular the US economy and uh and all that local
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area that's being affected but it's more than that because we have really a worldwide problem of socialist stateoriented governments around the world that have been inflating the money supply, taxing and regulation, um you know, forced immigration, COVID shots, etc. And uh in Europe in
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particular, I'm just back now from Spain uh where the protests were relatively mild, but you know, throughout Europe, in France, of course, is on fire. uh Germany is you know in under stress uh they're protesting in Italy and you know that and then there's
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the whole Ukrainian situation which seems to be coming to a head uh and London you the UK uh asking its population to uh be prepared for emergencies and self-sufficiency for extended period periods of time.
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And uh here in the United States with the Department of War uh asking all of its uh uh personnel to be prepared to go off-rid for an extended period of time without explaining um that to the American public or you
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know why they're having to go off the grid. So I I would I say the uh level of risk the level of uncertainty is extremely high and this doesn't even count the bond situation and the currency situation. Uh but also the all
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of these individual risks mount up to a huge huge problem for investors in particular but just really everybody on the planet.
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Okay. So, you just gave us the whole world of four minutes. It's a lot to chew on. Um, I want to try and let let's take and I know they all and listen, I can even add some more of these things, but um I know
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they all blend into each other and they all matter for each other, but let's start with this.
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It's a very overvalued stock market was what you said, right? Correct. And is it do we know that? I mean, in other words, what if the AI revolution ends up being real? What if this becomes the greatest thing that ever happened to
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productivity in the history of mankind? And not only does do these companies benefit from it, but all everybody else benefits from it. And this becomes the greatest productivity boom in history.
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Then is the stock market still overvalued? Oh, I think it is going to be great uh for humankind in many respects. It is going to be great for productivity, even those who aren't using it. Um there's going to be a lot of disruption,
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but we've already seen this before. I've seen it before. I'm an old guy. Um with uh you know things like u computer software and uh computers and the internet and uh we've gone through these technological innovations many times before and
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they're all great and we all depend upon them uh in our day-today lives. There's no question about that that they're all great, but they also were all associated with booms and bubbles in the stock market.
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Sure. And uh you know, and that's the nature of the beast that when when you've got a Federal Reserve that's feeding credit into the market, a new technology comes along, the Fed pumps in even more. It blows up these sectors, technological
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sectors, and this goes way back. The canals in the railroads of the 19th century, the electrification of the American economy in the 20s, um, you know, the the tech stock bubble, uh, you know, it's it it's got a long
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history. In fact, you could call the the uh business cycle or the boom bus cycle the tech uh cycle because there's technology that's always involved that's soaking in all of this investors money and the Fed's new newly created credit
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uh to expand beyond. And so everything happens too quick, it happens too early and uh investors end up holding the bag.
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And in this case um you know the measures of the stock market valuation and leverage are really at all time highs. The K Schiller um uh uh measure of you know the the price of stocks versus the earnings of stocks
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uh is at an all-time high. It's it's uh hasn't really ever reached this level.
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um except in 1929 I believe and in uh 1999 and uh and so we're at those very lofty levels and it's very concentrated not the the whole stock market is not overvalued. Uh there are international markets that are not grossly overvalued.
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Uh there are certain sectors that are not grossly overvalued. uh the small cap uh index in the United States uh the midcap index in the United States a lot of the stocks in the S&P 500 are not overvalued they're you know
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below their 200 day moving average so [clears throat] there's a lot of opportunities and of course now with a stock market crash if that were to occur that is going to drag everything down in the short run including gold and silver
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Um, and uh, but you know the uh, the overall if you look at the NASDAQ or the S&P 500 in the United States because these tech stocks are so large, you know, you may think you're invested in 500 stocks,
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but 40 to 50% of it is in 8 to 10 companies. Right. Um you may not know that you're you're already caught in the bubble.
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Yeah. Yeah. And if you look out, you know, past these using past experience, uh you know, so I'm use I'm using Austrian school theory about the business cycle, but I'm also using historical experience to confirm where we are in the cycle. Uh but when the uh
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K Schiller and um uh the cap uh capex um uh measures I'm not I'm not sure if I'm getting those right right here but um you know when you look at the expected rate of return based on past experience
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for 1 3 5 and 10 years the the picture is not very rosy at all.
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Right. Right. No, there's no doubt about that. Um, there's always something good to invest in though.
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Sure. Sure. It may just be cash right now. [clears throat] I mean, I have to assume at some point you're going to tell me it's gold.
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Well, I I I'm a big proponent of gold and silver. And when you're in a a world in which the central banks and the governments are all statist socialistoriented and there's really not a libertarian one in the mix. Um
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that obviously gold and silver are going to be big performers. They have been big performers for many years now.
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You know 5 years, 10 years, 25 years. they're they're hanging right in there with all of these bloated uh stock markets, but they too can go down as we've seen. Uh but, you know, remarkably, central banks around the
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world um they're investing um all of their new money uh their earnings and so forth in their reserve accounts. Uh they're moving more and more money into gold.
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Yeah, they are. Um, you know, central central banks keep going down for some reason and yet it keeps going down for some reason.
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I think that's been the I would argue maybe the biggest question mark this year, why gold can't catch a bid.
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Yes, that's right. Um, I think two big events were the nomination of uh Kevin Walsh to the Fed. Um he was the most hawkish of the four potential nominees from President Donald Trump and there was this surprise announcement
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[clears throat] and it really surprised markets and because he was considered the most hawkish of the four and the least likely to be nominated uh the gold market crashed, the silver market crashed right after that.
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Yes. Uh and then of course shortly thereafter gold was recovering you know very nicely and then this war was started uh by the US and Israel um in a very very important resource uh part of the globe and uh gold has it
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recrashed uh and has been weak uh ever since. And the more fighting there is over there, the more they drive up oil prices, uh gold and silver prices have been lower.
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uh because a lot of people uh especially in that region, but in a lot of areas um people are selling uh gold and silver or not purchasing as much as they otherwise would uh because of oil drives up the consumer price
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index and the consumer price index in similar indexes is the the guidepost for central banks. banks and the Federal Reserve. And so people have switched their outlook from a Fed that was going to cut interest rates aggressively in
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2026 uh under Kevin Worsh to uh I mean not Kevin Worsh but under the Fed uh to one that's been leaning more heavily on uh rate increases.
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Yes. Yes. That was the big switch this year. I I specifically remember the beginning of the year, everybody had cuts and all and there have been no cuts. They've been going the other way.
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So that definitely was the change and that's definitely going to make a market move when you go from one belief to a different one. And yeah, I agree. That's what's been bringing gold down is the expectation for higher rates, I think,
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is what's bringing gold down. I and and the next the next transition will look [snorts] something like um the war gets out of hand, the stock markets crash and then the Fed comes in and starts cutting rates to uh to prop
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up the stock market and to prop up, you know, the large US banks um you know to to uh try to save the uh uh US Treasury, you know, it's got a lot it right now it's it doesn't really
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matter that much. I don't know if you you have that same sense, but right now it doesn't seem to matter that much. It seems to be on the sideline. Um but uh with when those problems start emerging, they that gives them the green
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light to cut and that green light will then of course reignite uh gold and silver because lower rates means they're going to be pumping in more money, more inflation, and more movements towards buying gold and silver rather than selling it.
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So, my theory as a very amateur economist, I'm not an economist. I just play one on TV. Um, I'm I'm a trader.
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The the economics part fascinates me. It's it was my favorite subject in school. It remains my favorite subject.
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I can't make money off of it um because the markets don't necessarily follow um in the time period that I need them to follow it in. Uh I have to trade the markets as they are. But I I I I pay
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attention to economics and and when the markets start to agree with that then there's a big opportunity as well. But it can take as you know years before that happens. You know, you could be talking about a housing bubble in 2004
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and you were right, but if you were shorting the market because of that, you were broke by the time it hit. Right.
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So, I have to adapt to that. But my theory has been the negative theory. If I'm going to take the negative theory based on a lot of the things that that you mentioned in the beginning, and the reason I bring
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this up is because I'd like you to tell me a where I'm wrong and b maybe where I'm right and c tell me what else I'm missing. Um, but my my theory has been they have since in particular 09
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0809 these people have become addicted to printing money, right? Um, that's been the way out. Just print money, print money, print money. And it worked.
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It It bailed everybody out in '08, right? Um, but we're in a much different situation than we're in now. Now we're in a situation where printing money is inflationary. In '08, 09 it was not inflationary because we're in we're
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heading into a depression, right? Um, so it's not the same. Printing money now is not the same as that. So, as you were saying, we get to a point where things for whatever reason go bad and their answer is going to be to print money
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again cuz that's always their answer. And I feel like I don't know if it's not going to work, but if that doesn't help, if they print money and rates do not go down and the stock market does not go up
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and all this, then we're in a whole hell of a lot of trouble because if print the day that printing money doesn't work anymore is the day there's nothing left to do. They're out of they're out of tricks, you know. Um
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and on top of that the the governments as we know are in massive amounts of debt. They need to continually raise money. Um and now we have this AI revolution which is the largest infrastructure buildout in the history of the world. And those people
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are in continuous need of large amounts of money. So you've got this competition between the governments who have to be funded [snorts] and the AI companies who have to be funded because it's all about national defense and all that. Do we run
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out of money at some point? Like is there such a thing? Well, those are all great questions actually. I think you're right on spot on a lot of those things. Um in actuality uh I would say that it's a better
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posture to take that printing more money is not the the solution. It's not the long run policy solution that you want to adapt because you get into these kind of problems where there is an addiction where there is a dependency and where
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there is uh psychological sorts of training uh to bankers, investors and wall street. Uh you got to remember that you know on Wall Street their careers are very short. They have very short um memories uh and they don't know uh
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history all so most of the people on Wall Street um have only been in this bubble since ' 08. stocks have only gone up and we have transitioned uh to like I said a very overvalued stock market a very bloated
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technological uh sector of the stock market and of course there's also been a transition from a 40-year downtrend in interest rates and long-term bond prices so from 1981 um down to 2021, 40 years, the long run trend in interest rates was down. uh it
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ended with the massive printing during COVID and ever since then that trend has reversed and we're on an upward longterm uptrend in bond prices with governments around the world that have huge national debts that continually have to be refinanced
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and where their port bond portfolios have become shorter and shorter in duration. So like currently uh they're rolling over you know just massive amounts. There was 3-day period in the recent uh borrowing cycle where they raised over a half a
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trillion dollars in 3 days. Most of it in short-term denominations. So that money is going to have to be reraised 90 days from now.
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Right. Uh and so that's really, you know, with the overvaluations and the sort of financial structure of all of this government borrowing, all of the private sector borrowing and large amounts of consumer debt out in the economy, we've
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really got to take all of that into consideration. I agree 100% with you, maybe more than 100%. [laughter] That economic theory, it's very very important. It's essential um to understanding how markets work, but there's not a lot in that theory per
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se that tells you when something is going to happen or how much is the market going to change uh over a particular short-term period. Uh so that's where the other disciplines and the statisticians and the market analysts, the fundamental analysts come
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into play. Uh if you're looking for to make place new money into long-term investments.
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Um, you know, you've got to look at a lot of other things besides just economic theory, but economic theory paints us a very clear picture of the world we're all going to have to live in over many years to come. Basically, is,
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you know, a lot of debt out there, uh, where the governments are have no inclination whatsoever of even paying off the interest. They're borrowing money to pay the interest. They're using our credit card to pay essentially their mortgage um and their mortgage to the
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hilt. Yeah. That's I just don't think that that's ever going away um until something breaks, I think, because they're not going to Look, it's like you said, that's no way to run a policy. But it ain't going to change. I wouldn't run
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it that way. I I couldn't run my household like that because I would be they would declare bankruptcy on me and they would take take my home, you know.
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But they can they come and they come and get you, right? But they can [laughter] they own a printing press, right? And in fairness, if I owned a printing press, what I would do is I would let that
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sucker run all day long so that I could create cash all day long and I go out and have a party every day, right? So what stops that? You know what? What?
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What? That's the whole question to me because they're not going to stop this. They they cannot stop this. They're not going to come out. I always say like they're not no one's going to run for office like, "Okay, here's my idea. We
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are going to raise your taxes." You know, we're in we're in fiscal problem. So, we're going to raise your taxes and we're going to cut your benefits. Vote for me. Nobody's going to get elected doing that. It's just not going to
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happen until it's too late. Yes. I mean, this is the political pickle that we're in.
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The ideology of Americans, which a long time ago was really widespread libertarianism. It's become widespread socialism and welfareism and crony capitalism.
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Yeah. And uh it's basically socialism in all the major countries around the world. And of course we can feel I can feel it in particular here uh in the United States.
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Yeah. And our political system is one where the political elites control it. The voters don't even really control the system anymore.
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Uh that's all been rigged against the voters. Yes. And uh even if they even if they wanted to say, "Hey, tax me more and take away the benefits and fire a bunch of government employees." Um the you know, the the political
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elites are making out like bandits. Yeah, they are um out of the system. They're they're making out like criminals. They're counterfeits uh with the Federal Reserve system. They have no inclination uh for that to change. So yes, it's
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going to have to require some sort of ideological revolution uh to stop the whole process and to reverse it when they should hitch the fat.
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Yeah, that that Yeah, that doesn't look likely. And you know, it's probably is going to require some kind of catastrophe um for Americans to wake up and for the political elites to realize that they've they've skimmed too much off of the top
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of this um operation that they've been in control of for a long time. And uh so the American public don't even realize what's happening. they they still think, you know, that everything's fine, that voters are in control. But,
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you know, Americans are, and I this is worldwide, but I know the figures from America, um, you know, consumer confidence is at an all-time low. Uh, President Trump's ratings are at an all-time low.
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um people's satisfaction with the American way of government is at an all-time low. Uh and I'm talking about, you know, 66 75% um actually oppose our government and oppose what we're doing in a world opinion poll ranking where the United
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States used to be near the very top. Now we find ourselves at the very bottom of that list, only ahead of countries like North Korea and um [clears throat] and um only and below uh and below Russia and countries uh of
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that nature. And we're at the bottom of that list, right? Um and uh and so I think people feel the problem but they haven't been encouraged to do now. Of course we're on the eve of the midterm elections. Um and
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I'm concerned about that because we are in a air uh in a period of violent political populism. We experienced that in the 1920s and the 1960s and we are already experiencing that now today. Most of it small scale
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but with the midterm elections and afterwards of course uh for the next several months we might experience more visible widespread uh violence um related to political populism.
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And now, uh, opinion polls indicate that, uh, a large segment of people on the left and people on the right think it's perfectly okay for the government to use violence or physical aggression against their enemies on the other side.
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So, um, it's a powder keg and I don't know what's going to happen. and I'm watching all of this and uh the uh the signs are stacking up, but of course it's pretty much a wild card um in in terms of what's going to
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happen. But given that it's happening throughout the United States in opinion polling and that there is this smallcale uh violence against local politicians and so forth um and that it it's also happening on a global scale in France
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and the UK and Germany uh Italy etc. uh when I was just I just back from Spain and there was a big uh nationwide protest movement against the government that was trying to enact very small um cuts in government spending. Uh so
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investors need to be aware of the level of risks but I just like to play devil's advocate. Okay.
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Sure. I agree with all of those things. It it's it's actually clear. All right.
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It's clear. And on top of that, you also I have children who are in their 20s and they are full of nothing but angst about the future, you know, because this whole AI thing, you know, I mean, I have a son
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who who went to school and and specialized in in programming and computer program. Now he makes a he has a good job and makes a good living and he tells me his job's going to be irrelevant in a year.
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and he doesn't know what the hell to do with his life, you know, and I feel like that's a lot of people in that age group because they everybody feels like so so there's a lot of angst out there.
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There's no question about it, right? And you're right. Obviously, there's a lot of socialism out there. There's no question about it. Um, and this whole thing that Americans are so unhappy and everyone seems very very unhappy and the whole political divide
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obviously is is incredibly unhealthy, right? These people hate each other, you know? I mean, and uh I I I have many friends who are on the right. I have many friends who are on the left. I always consider myself to be
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a libertarian, which by definition puts me somewhere in the middle. Um and but I can sit there and unbiasedly listen to my friends. I don't choose my friends based on their politics. I try to understand my friends politics, right?
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Why they choose to be that way or whatever. But the point is, I hear both sides all the time. And these people hate each other. Okay. Um, and yes, they they think that the other side should be shot and that the government should get
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rid of them, right? And it's it's all very scary. Um, and it all seems like you say it's a powder keg. That's the word, right? And it's not just America, it's the whole world. Yes. And yet, and yet
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bond yields are not that high. I mean, they're a little higher than they were before, but so is economic growth, right? The stock market, the S&P 500 is less than 2% from an all-time high, right? The dollar is not having a
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problem. The dollar's actually been quite strong recently, right? It's not having any kind of problem. It goes up, it goes down, it fluctuates, but there's nothing major going on there. So, is it the fact and I'm a market person, so-
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which by which to me means I always think it's not always the case, but if I'm going to take a side, I take the side of the market. I think the market speaks, right? Um, sometimes the market's wrong, obviously, but over
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time, I find that going with the market is a better thing to do. And let's face it, every person that I have on here who is an economist or who does economic research or or who does whatever they
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do, if it's based on on those type of things, they are bearish as I think you would have to be if you're looking at these social trends and and classic economics, right? You have to come to the conclusion this
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cannot last. So is it that people in the markets are just so stupid that they are not seeing this thing? And let's face it, if we look at the course of history, economists have a incredible history of being very very wrong over time about a
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lot of things. Not about everything, [snorts] but about a lot of things, right? If you I I just read a book about um about the Nixon era, you know, the late60s and into the 70 and the whole inflation thing. and they were the the
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predictions that they were giving about inflation coming out of the Vietnam war and all that were completely wrong.
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Okay, which is why inflation got out of hand because the advisers and the economists were not saying that that was going to happen and so it did happen. Um so all I'm saying is where could we be wrong here? Could the market be right?
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Yeah, you can make the argument the market's wrong. People on Wall Street are not paying attention. They have a short memory and the the average American is just being stupid. their money is their their their retirement money is just going into these index
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funds all the time. They don't even know what the hell they have and eventually it's going to blow up in the face. Okay, that's one argument. The other argument is the market is seeing something that we are not.
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Could that be? And if so, what could that be? What could be Let's talk about the good side. What could possibly be could come out good? Is there nothing?
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And and listen, I'm of the belief that there isn't, but the market's proving me wrong here, so I'm not going to fight it. But can there's something good come out of this that we're missing?
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Yes. I do want to say before I I get into the answer too much is that you're cutting out. Your microphone is cutting out um quite a bit.
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Oh, that's bad. Is that happening to you, too? No, I'm I'm hearing both of you loud and clear and the signal shows strong. Can Can Jason, can you do a quick test? Can you Can you hear him now Mark?
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One, two, three, four, five, six. Yes, I hear that. Okay. All right. As long as it's coming through on the table.
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Yeah. From a recording standpoint, it's it's working. So, I'll I'll uh go back to be on the mute.
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All right. So, go back. Tell me where where where this could all be wrong. The markets can be right, and things actually might end up good.
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Okay. Well, I' I'd like to say that I'm actually very optimistic about the future and about the younger generations going forward and surviving and thriving and for to really make some of the changes that I've been talking about that need
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to be addressed. And a lot of that has to do with the change in perceptions and orientation that I do see in in the general public, but also, you know, at the university across the street and and the in these public opinion polling
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where they realize that government is cheating them, that it's doing the wrong things, that it's enacting stupid policy.
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that it's ripping them off. Uh so I I think very subtly they realize that government is not the solution to everything. And that's really the first step to realize that government is harmful economically and that the marketplace uh that we both love so much
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uh is actually the source of our incomes uh our investment returns um our cordial relationships our cooperation our ability to buy and sell things and survive and thrive. uh so I'm a very much a long-term optimist in this
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process but the way in which Austrian school economist see the market as as not all knowing and allseening and uh interjecting uh error into the system is when the central bank adds uh large amounts of artificial money, paper money, and
Speaker A
artificial credit into the system. It distorts the primary signal, the interest rate, and that encourages not just more investment, but also investment in advanced technologies.
Speaker A
and and so the the market embarks upon uh a new technological change earlier and faster and more recklessly than a real free market with sound money would proceed. And the secondary symptoms of this, you know, the symptoms that we
Speaker A
should see if the Austrian theory is correct is that we should see price inflation. And of course, everybody does see that and feel that and we have statistics which shows that that is actually the case that there's too much
Speaker A
money in the system and prices go up. Yes. Uh a second symbol symptom is that it's going to by lowering the interest rate it's going to create a bias in the economy towards investment uh and away from uh consumption goods and work and labor
Speaker A
and that kind of thing. So it it sort of frontloads everything into investments and you see stock markets going up abnormally and sometimes bond markets going up uh as well and you get a boom in the stock market.
Speaker A
So we clearly see that you know typically in a free market economy uh the returns on investments are never really all that spectacular and uh they're very stable and steady and you know stocks generally you make more money than bonds and bonds you make
Speaker A
more money than deposits in banks and you know it's that kind of thing. And finally, the final symptom which is very key, very important nowadays is referred to as the K-shaped economy.
Speaker A
And this is where the the problems of the Fed raise and get dispersed throughout the economy because the artificially low interest rates and all that new credit is all to the advantage of wealthy people. the political and economic elites,
Speaker A
uh the Wall Street banks, uh the big players, uh the upper income groups that have lots of assets, uh a home, uh retirement accounts, you know, investments, that sort of thing.
Speaker A
They're all going to be advantaged. But the vast majority of the population which is working class uh that get most of their income and sustenance uh from their paycheck uh they don't see any of the benefits of those lower interest rates the same way
Speaker A
that the wealthy powerful elite do. Uh and then of course the snapback on to that same population is that they have to pay higher prices. So they're real inflation adjusted incomes are actually going down. And this is you know again
Speaker A
this is what we've been seeing. This really manifested itself uh with the the onslaught of government spending and zero interest rates during COVID is that in the aftermath of that uh after the government checks were all spent um
Speaker A
where the working class has really been at a tremendous disadvantage and in particular where young people are at a disadvantage because it blew up the price of housing, making housing unaffordable. It made student loans and the cost of higher education
Speaker A
uh unaffordable. It's made uh health insurance premiums uh for these younger people uh you know almost unbearable. I mean look at younger people. I'm an older person and health insurance. I have my own business. I have to pay my health.
Speaker A
Health insurance payments are are unbearable for me. I'm 59. Well, I mean, but you know, you're obviously an investor. You have assets, but a lot of, you know, a lot of what's going on here is working people. You
Speaker A
know, it's a gradation. Okay. But, you know, here's my problem with this with this argument. Not that it's a problem with the argument, but the lower interest rates are to the advantage of the rich and politically connected and disadvantage the working
Speaker A
class. Isn't that life? I mean, isn't that the history of the world? Haven't the rich and the politically connected always been the people that have the advantage and the working class always been the people that are disadvantaged? It's like
Speaker A
people that say to me, you know, the poor are really struggling. I'm like, aren't the poor always strugg That's what being poor is. I if you're not if you're you know what I mean like if you're poor you're struggling that that
Speaker A
you know like rich you're not at least financially if you're poor you are strugg by definition don't tell me that the poor are really struggling the poor are always really struggling financially so that's one and and and I think the
Speaker A
way they don't that that ends there's only one way that that ends which we seem to be on the path towards but is that eventually the poor grab their pitchforks you know and and They go to the castle and they chop off the heads.
Speaker A
You know, that's the only way this ends. It doesn't end any other way. The rich and powerful are never going to say, "Oh, well, I mean, they'll lie about it and they'll so that they can get elected." But they're not going to do
Speaker A
anything to help the poor. They're going to do things to help themselves. That's what they're there for. That's why they're there. I think it's a cynical view, but I believe it wholeheartedly.
Speaker A
Okay. So, well, yeah. that when it's always been. Well, that's what we revolutions are very rarely productive. They're very destructive.
Speaker A
But I think if we look back at the United States when we were on the post World War II gold standard, what we saw is people making wages uh where their real wages were increasing over time and they weren't being eroded
Speaker A
by inflation. And the problem the problem with these artificially low interest rates which we've seen now for many decades is that uh the working class also borrow money.
Speaker A
They look at the return on uh savings accounts in the bank and they say you know if I put that in and I get this interest rate well inflation's going to erode the value of that interest totally away. So, Americans who used to save
Speaker A
like 12 to 15% of their incomes uh for the future and for emergencies and so on and they didn't even have credit cards.
Speaker A
Yeah. Um [clears throat] and uh to now where they have no backup plan, they have no savings account. Uh they have no cash. Um, and they have very large credit card.
Speaker A
I'm so cynical. I I I don't mean to take the side of the government because I I don't take this side of the government.
Speaker A
But you know what they do have? They have a $1,200 iPhone sitting in their purse. Okay? And they also have their dinner being delivered to them every night by Uber Eats. All right. You go talk these young I argue with the young
Speaker A
kids all the time. Oh, it's no fair. you know, they could afford housing on on on an income and we can't and all that. I'm like, you could, but you feel the need to go out to eat. My grandparents did
Speaker A
not go out and eat every single night. They went to the grocery store, they brought food home, and they cooked it, and they saved the money that they weren't spending on that to buy a house, to put a down payment on a house. Okay?
Speaker A
These people don't do that. My grandparents did not have a $1,300 iPhone, all right, sitting there. All right? [laughter] Okay. And look, I don't have a $1,300 iPhone, all right? And I don't go out to eat, all right? Because I would rather
Speaker A
save my money, right? These people I I'm just taking the other side here because that's what I like to do. I like to be the devil's advocate. But at the end of the day, are they really living that badly? You
Speaker A
know what I mean? Control your spending. Stop buying into the consumerism of it all. And maybe you will have some freaking money. I'm not saying that there aren't people that aren't making a lot of money and are struggling. I've
Speaker A
been there in my life. I know what it's like. Okay, I get it. But it's just like the governments. They're spending more money than they have and eventually it doesn't work. Well, I kind of feel like there's a lot of people that are doing
Speaker A
that as well. You don't have to spend money on these things if you don't want to. Okay? If you don't have to go out on your credit card and do these things if you don't want to. You really don't. All
Speaker A
right? but you feel the need to because you're trying to keep up and you're looking on social media and you're seeing all these things that they have and you're going out and buying these shoes and you're going out and buying
Speaker A
this new shirt and you're I wear the I got a bunch of clothes sitting in my closet that I have since high school.
Speaker A
Okay, I still wear my Dan Marino jersey. All right, [laughter] so like again I'm not saying that it's all great and that and I'm not saying I'm not being a jerk here. I am. But I'm trying to make a point, right, which is
Speaker A
there's two sides of the story as well. You know, I mean, I have a friend that says this all the time.
Speaker A
Yeah. He he lives up in Harlem and he's like, I walk around Harlem, everybody has an iPhone. So, you want to talk to me about poverty, talk to me about the fact everybody's got an iPhone.
Speaker A
Yeah, I absolutely wholeheartedly agree. I mean, I think the Fed and the interest rates and, you know, the incentives that have slowly seeped into the system and the credit cards available everywhere and now you can, you know, order chicken
Speaker A
wings delivered to you and make four payments over the next 6 months or whatever right?
Speaker A
I mean, you don't have to do that, though. That That's crazy. Use your brain. you know, when the mortgage thing was going on, I was very poor at that point, okay? And I lived in this uh this condo complex and
Speaker A
these mortgage brokers were going around to all of us saying, "We can get you money to buy a house." And I was like, "Well, you know, I I I kind of just started this business and I'm not really making money. I don't
Speaker A
care. I can get you money. I can get you a half a million dollars." I'm like, I can't pay a half a million, a mortgage on a half a million dollar. I don't care. I can get it for you anyway. I go,
Speaker A
but I care. I don't want to take a mortgage that I can't afford to pay.
Speaker A
Now, everybody else did it. And that's why we had the housing bubble and that's why it all blew up and everybody wants to blame the banks and everybody wants to blame this. And I get it. But at the
Speaker A
end of the day, you didn't have to take a mortgage out. you didn't have to go and buy six different condos because they were because the you know at a certain point people need to take responsibility for their own actions as
Speaker A
well, right? And and and I think it's a combination of both of those things. I'm not here to support the government. I know that what they're doing is wrong, but people need to take their own actions, too. I think call me crazy.
Speaker A
Yeah. And I agree entirely. I just switched my phone uh that I had had for almost 13 years, right? And it created quite a spectacle uh in the phone shop where none of the employees had ever seen a phone as old as mine.
Speaker A
Right. Right. And uh you know so I'm very much that way. I don't normally wear a tie and I wholeheartedly agree with you. I have seen I do know of some young people who don't spend money on these toys uh
Speaker A
lavishly and you know and they've found that stacking silver you know buying an ounce of silver every paycheck um is much more rewarding much more satisfying and stabilizing psychologically that you've got money that the banks can't take and the
Speaker A
government can't take. Yes. And uh you know and so they're committed to their savings plan, but in this case it's not money into the bank earning no interest especi [clears throat] inflation, right?
Speaker A
That they might take away anyways. it's right there uh where you can see it and you know you know so there are people like that out there and I would hope that it would become much more uh universal in the population but you know
Speaker A
it's not it's definitely not the norm I look at my kids and I look at their friends I'm telling you I go to my kids' apartment he has nothing in his refrigerator he has food delivered to him or he goes
Speaker A
to a restaurant every single night. And I'm like, "Okay, well then don't at me that you can't afford the the down payment on a house. You have a good job.
Speaker A
Your wife has a good job. You you choose to live in La Hoya, California. You know what I mean?
Speaker A
You know what I mean? Like you [laughter] tell them you can't afford a house. It's like, you know what I'm saying? Like most people can't afford a house in La Hoya, California." Like, you know, no.
Speaker A
So, you know, whatever. I take both sides. It's like I'm saying, I I I am very anti- the government. I'm very anti- what they're doing. I think it's incredibly irresponsible what they are doing and that eventually there's going
Speaker A
to be a problem. But at the same time, people need to take responsibility for themselves as well. That that's my point. I want to ask you one more thing before we go, just for the hell of it.
Speaker A
Um, what do you think of uh Bitcoin? What was that? What do you think of Bitcoin?
Speaker A
Well, I mean, I I was talking about it. uh quite a lot when it first came out and I you know celebrated it because the whole thing was designed to mimic the gold standard where you were mining for
Speaker A
money uh and it you know it and it became more expensive over time to mine the money and the money you know the source of money was going to run out. So it was very scarce, right?
Speaker A
You know, and the recognition of scarcity is the beginning of economics and also common sense. Scarcity is the human condition. Uh we always want more, but we're limited. And Bitcoin recognized that. It tried to mimic the gold standard. Uh it's been very wild
Speaker A
and crazy. Uh people can make a lot of money in it. And um a lot of young people uh as we've been talking about uh have decided to go in the direction of Bitcoin and cryptocurrencies and stable coins etc rather than the traditional
Speaker A
uh safety asset which is gold and silver. Uh but generally I'm very um you know encouraged by its emergence as a revolt against the 2008 bailouts.
Speaker A
Yes. Uh which is really what it was. Yes. Uh it said so explicitly. Uh but I also think now you know the government's regulating it and taxing it and you know all sorts of things. And so I, you know, I always encourage people to
Speaker A
use caution um if they're going to make it part of their investment portfolio. But it's certainly a place where you know the returns have been uh astronomical if you know the correct ins and outs into that marketplace.
Speaker A
Gotcha. Okay. [snorts] Um, just because I I can't go over a certain amount of time. I I could sit here and talk all day, but we have to keep this reasonable. Um, is there anything else you'd like to share or or
Speaker A
or did you want to tell us a little bit um about your your institute and and all that or where can people find you or tell me.
Speaker A
Yeah. Um, I work at the Misesus Institute mises.org. We have a wonderful homepage that has all sorts of resources on any kind of topic political economic etc. Many things that areformational regarding investments. We have four or five podcasts that we do for
Speaker A
libertarians, for political junkies, uh, libertarians. And, uh, my minor issues podcast is only 10 minutes every Saturday morning. And then we have another one that's called human action that does a deep dive into the academic issues of Austrian economics. And we
Speaker A
have a link mises.org/giveaway where you can go every month and get a brand new book for free uh hard copy uh from the institute. So I would you know encourage everybody visit the homepage misuses.org org and then/giveaway uh to sign yourself up for free books.
Speaker A
Awesome. And I would encourage, you know, to me as a person who's read at least a lot of economics, if you even want to pretend to know anything about economics, you have to study an Austrian school of economics.
Speaker A
Okay? Um you don't have to agree with it. You don't have to adopt it as your thing. If you don't want to, that's fine. But you certainly have to know what Austrian economics is about if you even want to pretend to know anything
Speaker A
about economics. So that's first. And these guys are giving away Absolutely. These guys are giving away free books about it. So I mean, what the hell? Um, and this is a biased statement, but if you even want to pretend to know
Speaker A
anything about politics, then you have to learn about uh, you know, what being a libertarian is all about. Um, and and clearly people who are Republican and people who are Democrat are going to argue with that and all that. And I'm
Speaker A
I'm a little biased because I consider myself to be a libertarian, but I would encourage that too. And Rand go through the whole thing. I think there's a lot to be learned there. Um I I always laugh when the election
Speaker A
season comes along as to why the libertarians can never get any uh any headway and I always see it like if you're really a libertarian then you're not going to go to a uh you know a a political rally. So that
Speaker A
that's why the libertarians can never get anywhere because libertarians don't do that stuff. I mean to go to a libertarian convention to me is to not be libertarian like hey let's go to the convention.
Speaker A
Well I don't conventions I'm a libertarian right? So they can never get me headway because of that but I don't know I still think it makes the most just me. But anyway, even if you don't want to hear about the the the the
Speaker A
politics, certainly the economics, if you're here listening to this and you have any interest in the markets, like I say, the markets and economics don't necessarily match up a lot of the time, but I still think you need to know
Speaker A
what's going on so that you can adjust your your process in the markets to to figure out what's going on there. So, again, Austrian school, this sounds like a great place to learn about it. Um, Dr. Mark Thornton, I I thank you for
Speaker A
your time today. Thanks for coming on. Um it was great to hear your your thoughts and your inputs.
Speaker A
A lot of value and uh hopefully we will talk again in the future. Yeah, you're very welcome. I enjoyed it thoroughly and I look forward to doing it again sometime.
Speaker A
Definitely. Thank you.
Topics:stock market bubbleAustrian economicsFederal Reservebusiness cycleCAPE ratiotech stocksinterest ratesgeopolitical riskMises Institutemarket crash











