Speaker A
Hello and welcome to the TFO football podcast. I'm Joe Divine, and today I'm delighted to be joined by Ka Kyn.
Tifo Football reviews Arsenal's transfer window, Everton's deadline day chaos, and Man City's midfield overhaul in this detailed podcast episode.
Key Takeaways
- Arsenal's transfer window was active but lacked a marquee attacking signing, leading to mixed reviews.
- Everton's ownership and transfer dealings caused significant fan dissatisfaction.
- Tottenham's transfer dealings were comprehensively recalled and analyzed by the hosts.
- Manchester City invested heavily in midfield, reflecting their ambition to maintain dominance.
- The podcast blends detailed football analysis with humor and broader football culture discussions.
What the video covers
- The podcast opens with hosts Joe Divine, Ka Kyn, John McKenzie, Jack Pitterbrook, and Steve Hank discussing the summer transfer window.
- They start by analyzing Arsenal's transfer activity, noting four first-team signings and debating the lack of an elite attacking player.
- Discussion includes Arsenal's net spend of £400 million over the last three years and a transfer window rating of six out of ten.
- Everton's chaotic deadline day is covered, focusing on fan unrest and the controversial ownership decisions.
- Jack Pitterbrook impressively recalls Tottenham's entire transfer window, including fees, from memory.
- Manchester City's significant investment in new midfield players is analyzed, with editorial commentary on their strategy.
- The hosts debate the value of money and business class travel in a lighthearted segment.
- The episode concludes with a humorous segment on the Hundred Years War and a claim to the French throne.
- Additional content includes promotion of a separate podcast episode on Jose Mourinho's Real Madrid rebuild and an audiobook about Pep Guardiola.
- Upcoming live streams and new shows are announced for fans to follow.
Chapters
- 00:00Introduction and Host Greetings
- 06:29Arsenal Transfer Window Analysis
- 10:29Discussion on Transfer Market and Player Value
- 15:50Everton Deadline Day and Fan Reaction
- 26:29Tottenham Transfer Window Recall
- 43:44Rondo Game and Editorial Commentary
- 61:51Manchester City Midfield Overhaul
- 113:39Historical Humor and Show Conclusion
Full Transcript — Download SRT & Markdown
Speaker A
Hello Joe. All right, buddy. Very good. Thank you. John McKenzie. What's up? What is up?
Speaker A
Stuff. Yeah, stuff is up. Anyway, and also JPB's here. Jack Pitterbrook. Hi, Joe. All right, buddy. How's it going?
Speaker A
Fantastic. Good job. Now, what did we talk about? Oh, also Steve Hank's here. Hello, Joe. I was trying to do what was that like a what's up doc kind of thing.
Speaker A
It's a bit in the show we talk about the oldie archives from days of y in the 20th century, and I was trying to do one of those voices and obviously what happened came out.
Speaker A
Oh hello. Wow. That's my new thing. There you go. Something got cut. No. You can keep that in, Steve, if you want. Now, what do we talk about on today's show? Well, so many interesting things. We assess the
Speaker A
summer transfer window. Now it has shut. We start with Arsenal as the reigning Premier League champions. Very exciting conversation there. But John has some burning hot takes.
Speaker A
Were they burning hot? No, they were just They were hot takes for me. They were for you. They were I actually expressed an opinion.
Speaker A
What you did was in an Arsenal section, you said, "I'm gonna say two things that might be controversial now." And I got the hair on the back of my neck stood up. I got very excited. that we did
Speaker A
that. Who amongst us has flown business class on a plane? And what is it like?
Speaker A
The answer may surprise you. Now, do you have a deep respect for the value of money? And if not, why not? We ask that question as well. Then we play a Rondo.
Speaker A
A very competitive. I have to say perhaps the most competitive Rondo we've ever had. Uh after the Rondo, Everton had a hectic deadline day with their owners upsetting the fan base quite a lot. We talk about the cost of the
Speaker A
toffee donut. that comes up in that section. Uh Jack ventures into his mind palace to recall from memory Tottenham's entire transfer window in ascending order, including fees. Very impressive.
Speaker A
I try and catch him out with a tricky order, but he's way ahead of me. Can you scrape and have an onus? Well, Jack was unsure, but we reassure him that it is fine. Can you scrape a goal? Can you
Speaker A
have an onus? Uh who's to say? Uh anyway, uh then we go back to Oh, yes.
Speaker A
We should we go back to the time of leaving freshly baked pies on window sills like we did in the in the days of your uh the word owners just so funny. It's never appeared so funny to me but
Speaker A
it was a good show by the way. Uh we move on to Manchester City. Listen, Manchester City spent a lot of money on new midfield. We talk about their new midfield and then we give a bit editorializing going on here.
Speaker A
Me? No, no, just from from Steve Hanky. Oh yeah. I'm Listen, I'm skipping over some of the stuff.
Speaker A
We didn't mention how much Arsenal spent this window, but they spent a lot of money as well.
Speaker A
The bit that we left out of that whole Arsenal conversation was how much money they've spent over the last six years.
Speaker A
Last three years. 600 million. 600 million. 600 million. Net spend 400 million. Yeah. And Kyrie only gives the transfer window rating a six. Wait till you get to that bit.
Speaker A
It's all about the here and now. Bruno G. Mariah is not enough for me. I want more. I want one of the best players in the world. You had a good show today. Yeah. And then we give a
Speaker A
vaguely accurate precy of the end of the hundred years war. We get to listen. If you want to listen to Jack Pitbrook talk about the hundred years war, stick around to the or just skip to the end.
Speaker A
That's the best bit. That's the best bit. And I stake my claim to the French throne. There you go. And that was the whole show, wasn't it? Did I miss anything Steve?
Speaker A
Uh, a few of my bits of editorializing, but hey, what's new? It was for the best. Now, uh, Ring for analysis this week, by the way, not on YouTube. bring for analysis, but it comes out on Saturday on Spotify, Apple
Speaker A
Podcasts, wherever you get your audio podcasts. Have a listen to that. That's me and John talking about Jose Mourinho's Real Madrid rebuild.
Speaker A
And if you like that Oh, yeah. What if you like that, John? You might like the audio book of my book right?
Speaker A
Which has got me talking. It's behind you, your book, by the way. That's not the audio book.
Speaker A
No, that's the that's your book. That's the dead tree version. That's what they call it.
Speaker A
That's the dead tree version of your book. The Spectre of Pep. How Guardiola Haunts Modern Football. The audio book read by none other than me and a bit of me.
Speaker A
That's true. Yeah, you struggle. You struggle through the introduction. That's true. And then hand it over.
Speaker A
I take the reins. Yeah. I bring us home supremely. Uh you can get that on wherever the hell you get audiobooks these days. Audible or on if you have a Spotify premium account. Oh, can you?
Speaker A
You can listen to it for free. Really? Yeah. Well, I mean, you're paying for your Spotify premium account. So, it's not free.
Speaker A
There's no such thing as a free lunch, Joe. No, that's true. That I still owe you that lunch.
Speaker A
Yeah, I forgot about that. We we've got to have that lunch now. Anyway, uh Post Arsenal Chelsea on Sunday, John Jack Collins and I will be doing a live stream as well. And then next Tuesday, we got a whole new exciting show for you
Speaker A
there as well. So that's it. That's it. I hope you enjoy today's show. I hope.
Speaker A
Onus. Well, where else to begin? of course a couple of days after the transfer window uh closes then with Arsenal because the transfer window officially closed on Tuesday bringing an end to an interesting summer for Premier League champions Arsenal. Uh the club have made
Speaker A
four first team signings, haven't they? Can you guess them off the top of your head Ka?
Speaker A
Yes. Can you recite them? Go. I'll start with the biggest Elan Melier. Okay. Yeah, he Well, that's just very quite rude about Elan Melier. I wasn't.
Speaker A
He's the tallest player. He is the biggest. Oh, you mean physically the biggest. You can't argue there. That's true. He's got me. I'll resend what I said.
Speaker A
Bruno Garay. Where did Where did he come from and how much did he cost though?
Speaker A
Leeds. He cost free. He cost free. Exactly. Okay. BG BG 75 mil. Yeah. 75. Uh Christoph Solace.
Speaker A
Great deal at 35 million from Club Brugge. I've got 40 million euros are in here.
Speaker A
Same thing. No, no, it's a different currency of course, so he's wrong there. Club Brugge. Um, and then the final one is Ezri Concer from Asim. Do you want that in pounds or euros?
Speaker A
The final and most forgettable. That's that's actually not right. There's technically a fifth alo. That's that's mean.
Speaker A
The fifth the fifth is technically Pierro in Capier. You know, I was Yeah, not a proper fan.
Speaker A
Not a real player. He only asked me for four. Anyway, the the thing is the problem with their their transfer window, as we all know, is that they missed out on a truly elite attacking player. Christo second the second one does not count
Speaker A
after failed attempts to sign Vinicius Jr., Morgan Rogers, Julian Alvarez um leaving some disappointed at the outcome of this window others claiming that it was all intentional and that Arteta knew this was going to happen from 2019. Uh
Speaker A
James McNicholas's inside Arsenal's transfer window piece on the Athletic which is very good by the way uh and is worth reading. It starts with this quote that I found interesting from Mikel Arteta. is after the loss to PSG in the
Speaker A
Champions League final at the end of last season. Mikel Arteta says, "We want to reach another level. We're going to have to show that ambition because we are more than capable of doing it, but it's going to demand us to be very, very
Speaker A
ambitious, very fast, and very smart," which I guess didn't really happen, Ka. Maybe not completely. How How are we rating Arsenal's window? Because I I I can sort of see it from both sides. Do you do you want a rating like out of 10
Speaker A
or however you want to interpret that?" Um, I would go let's actually Yeah, let's actually do it out of 10.
Speaker A
Given the promise from the start of the window and the excitement.
Speaker A
Six. Six. Jack. Solid seven. Solid seven. John, I know you hate these sorts of games, but just just humor me.
Speaker A
Uh, it was 6.75. There you go. Great. Okay. Context K. So, the context for me is that I think going into this season, Arsenal's attack is probably actually a little bit weaker than it was last season. So Christo
Speaker A
Solis Solace because they added Christos Solis. Yeah. No, because they got rid of Leandro Trussard and Gabriel Marinelli and they added Christo Solis. I know. I know. He had that great first game, didn't he?
Speaker A
Yeah. And he'll have a great third game, too. But yeah, I think compared to the strength and depth Arsenal had last summer and it was all about for Arsenal having quality backups in every single position. Now on the left hand side of
Speaker A
the attack, they've got Solace who does look promising from the first few games. And then the backup to that is Eberza who has never massively convinced on the left for Arsenal. He had one really good game against Manchester City and then
Speaker A
kind of never got used there again. He had a good second half against Aston Villa, but I think people have maybe got a bit big on it because they're kind of looking for a solution on the left hand
Speaker A
side. Then there's talk of nonaw being an option on the left hand side. That happened a bit last season, but it didn't really convince. So from that side of the window, it's a bit disappointing. But then when you look at
Speaker A
the other bits of the squad that needed addressing so they did probably need a right sided center back cuz William is out for a long time. They did bang.
Speaker A
There you go. Bang concert. They did probably need another midfielder because Christian Norard left and they could and last season Declan Rice and Martin Zendy had to play themselves into the ground.
Speaker A
Bang Bruno G. Exactly. Yeah. So why are you saying it's six? That's because I think the the big focus for Arsenal going forward and we on the Sunday live stream that we did, we mentioned a Miceta quote where he spoke
Speaker A
about uh you need individuals who have moments of magic that can change games basically and Arsenal still don't necessarily really have that in attack. But Kayo Sak is probably the closest they have, but beyond that there's not an awful lot of
Speaker A
individual brilliance. They're collectively really strong and the goals they've scored um this season mostly have have suggest that and and the goal against Aston that won the game was a really lovely team goal.
Speaker A
But the way I've kind of described it to some people is it's felt like you're sitting in premium economy. You've got really good attackers and then you sort of get a peer through the curtain up to business class. What have they got up
Speaker A
there? They've got Venicious Junior. They've got Julian Alvarez. Yeah. The way the analogy works is that you have to you have to you have to analogize Venicious Jr. with what that would be in business class. So is that
Speaker A
the equivalent of a chair that turns into a bed for example? That's the Venicious Junior business class.
Speaker A
And Julian Alvarez is like 10 extra movies that you can watch on your flight.
Speaker A
That's rubbish. Everyone's got a phone these days. Okay. Julian Alves. Have you ever been on a plane?
Speaker A
Uh I've not been in business class on a plane. Quick pause. Have you ever been on business class in a in a plane, Jack?
Speaker A
Yes. What's it like? Tell us what it's like. Is it good? Uh, it feels great.
Speaker A
Yeah. Leg room. Uh, endless snacks, endless drinks. Um, do the people sometimes the TV rather than being in the back of the seat in front of you pops up from your armrest.
Speaker A
Wow. How about that? Uh, yeah. It's pretty great. It makes makes me feel like um, you know, like a a football CEO or a technical director.
Speaker A
Yeah. Have you ever been in first class? No. That's crazy, isn't it? I've walked through first class.
Speaker A
Have you on your way? on your way to get out of the plane. How about that? Incredible. Do the service people crawl towards you on the floor in business class? Profer, please, sir, take this safety pamphlet.
Speaker A
And then they say, did I say you're on the to podcast? Yeah, that's the truth, isn't it? You know, it's great being on the to podcast. Still doesn't get you business class on a plane, though. You said seven
Speaker A
out of 10. You You think it's better than the Arsenal fan thinks? I'm sort of inclined to agree with you, but why do you say that? Well, I just think they've I think that the fact that I mean, look,
Speaker A
I I agree with the analysis that they are short on attacking quality in the final third.
Speaker A
Um, but I think that they this model won the league for them last year. Like they can win the league without having nine out of like nine out of 10 top level players in the final third because they
Speaker A
have the best defense in the world. They have a really clear way of playing. They have a lot of depth. They've lent into that depth. I think that I think Bruno and Conor are fantastic signings for that reason. Um and sure like would it
Speaker A
you know their front line would be more exciting if they had an Alvarez or a Venicius or someone of that level who they haven't signed but I just think that I just back them to score enough goals over the season to win the league
Speaker A
again because I think you know it's not just about individual quality. I know that said that which is slightly odd given that the way he's run Arsenal in the last few years has been not relying on technical quality to to or like
Speaker A
individual brilliance to score goals and win games. But I just think they've still probably got enough.
Speaker A
Yeah, I agree with that. I think also I understand the disappointment on the part of Arsenal fans because when you think that there's a chance that you're going to sign Venice's junior or, you know, Morgan Rogers, Julian Alvarez, and
Speaker A
then it doesn't happen, it can be it's disappointing. I get that. um because you were imagining something greater than than what you have and you end up with Christo Christos. But um I I think that the reason I feel sympathetic to
Speaker A
towards them as a club in the transfer window is it's hard to strengthen the best team. It's harder to do that than it is, you know, Spurs have spent400 million pounds or whatever and they've bought lots of really good players, but
Speaker A
it's easier to do that when you're Spurs because the squad was worse because they've come 17th twice in a row, right? They've come 17th twice in a row.
Speaker A
the players are worse on average across the whole pitch, so it's easier to upgrade them and they still spent an awful lot of money doing it. Whereas in the case of Arsenal, I quite like that Arteta quote because I think he
Speaker A
recognizes that we have a fantastic team. The only thing that makes this team better really uh is, you know, a truly elite attacking talent. And you might hear some criticism from from fans saying, well, maybe it would have been better to go
Speaker A
out there and get like a Pedronetto, for example, someone someone like that who's like at the level below elite and that would have improved the team. But I'm just not totally but they've had netto level.
Speaker A
I mean they bought last year. They've had netto level wide players for a while. I don't think Netto I don't think like another 60 million player would massively elevate them beyond the level of the guys they've already got.
Speaker A
The question is, you know, can they find 100 plus million player? And maybe maybe there's a degree, I mean, jealousy is probably too strong a word, but a sense that if you look at the other big six teams, obviously, you know, City have
Speaker A
bought like other teams have bought 100 million players, right? You know, like Rogers going to Chelsea, City have obviously got Enzo and Buadi and Anderson three.
Speaker A
Yeah. And even Tottenham have got like Sandra Tali's like 92.5 I think potentially rising to 100. other teams have spent like that massive money and maybe Arsenal fans have been maybe there's a little bit of a sense of I
Speaker A
would quite like that that that looks fun. Why can't we have that? I was going to ask you about that because reading James' piece there was clearly a theme across the summer that Andre Bura who's Arsenal sporting director did seem to think on numerous
Speaker A
occasions that players were be that they were interested in were being overvalued by their clubs. We know that they were slow on the Morgan Rogers transfer which left the possibility for Chelsea to kind of opportunistically come in and take
Speaker A
Rogers away. My question really is do we think that Arsenal as champions are maybe just a bit out of step in that regard with other Premier League teams because we've seen many of them in the the traditional big six very willing as
Speaker A
we say to spend £100 million. Arsenal sort of looking at Morgan Rogers and saying no he's 80 million not 116. It's like I don't know it feels like to a certain extent is it penny pinching? It could be. Yeah, but it could be out of
Speaker A
step in a good way hypothetically. Like so many Premier League teams have spent so much money this summer that it might be, this is just hypothetical, but it might be the case that in three or four years time, people will say, "Oh, you
Speaker A
know, maybe it was smart to not spend too much money at that moment in the market when prices prices were super inflated and maybe keep hold of that money and maybe they will end up spending that in a moment where the
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market is less inflated or maybe a different bit of the market like not buying from the Premier League or whatever." So, I don't think like being out of step with this particular moment in the transfer window. I mean, it could be the right
Speaker A
thing, it could be the wrong thing, but it's not we don't really know at this point.
Speaker A
Fair enough. John Jack mentioned before uh that, you know, Arsenal's model won them the Premier League last season that that they do have a team that's capable of doing that. We know that that's the case. We are though, as we've said many
Speaker A
times over the last few weeks, in a shifting tactical meta. We're at a period of time where what it takes to win the Premier League is is arguably changing. My question off the back of Arsenal's transfer window to you is, do
Speaker A
you think that they have the personnel to to be tactically flexible enough to really compete?
Speaker A
I've got two potentially quite controversial things to say on this. Oh, okay. Can you when you do them, can you say one and then two? I'll do that.
Speaker A
I know how you love that. Everyone go quiet. Number one is so I hear what people are saying. Arsenal won the league last season, there's no reason why they can't win the league again this season. But isn't the point with Arsenal that with
Speaker A
playing this model which hasn't focused on individuals has meant that they've they've always had this approach which seems to me like we'll aim to be the second best team and hope someone else isn't good enough. And last season they won the league without
Speaker A
a real title challenge. City came up from behind but from miles behind and nearly caught them up. I think that Arteta knows that that you can't continue to play at this level and consistently win the league. If you want
Speaker A
to consistently win the league, you have to have those difference makers. And I think that's what the original quote in that piece by James McNicholas is about, right? He's saying we have now got ourselves to a position where we are at
Speaker A
the front of the queue in many respects. We need to bring in those elite elite players so that we aren't having to rely on one nil wins against Aston Villa and then doing a lot of, you know, squeaky
Speaker A
bomb defending at the end of the game and and being in a position where all it takes is a freak goal and and you and you drop points.
Speaker A
The second thing I want to say about this is why why did these elite players not want to join Arsenal and how much does that have to do with their play style? If you have someone like Venicious Jr. who can stay at Real
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Madrid and play a lot of games that are going to be much less fraught than if you're playing at Arsenal. Not to mention the fact that you're going to be expected to do regardless of how much they fit him in
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the team and say, "We're going to carry you a little bit out of possession." How much is that influencing these players like Julian Alvarez and and Venicious Junior to be like, I can have just a a better quality of footballing
Speaker A
life by not joining these teams? I think I can take a part number two though. Yeah, I think in the case of Venicius Jr. and Julian Alvarez, Alvarez wanted to join Barcelona and had reservations about coming back to England and Venicius Jr.
Speaker A
like again I read in in James' piece that that like he likes the culture in Spain. He wants to play in Spain. I don't think it's because of Arsenal. I think it's because of England.
Speaker A
You don't think that comes into it at all? Maybe maybe it does, but it's I don't think it's the main factor. And Morgan Rogers did want to join Arsenal and then they around and lost But Morgan Rogers is already I guess playing in
Speaker A
that Premier League context. Morgan Rogers also is not at the level of of a Venicious Junior, right? We can all just on that though cuz like I think Arsenal were praised at the time for not going to the level that Chelsea went to
Speaker A
for Morgan Rogers. But when there's so few premium attacking talents available and you need one, then does that kind of are you kind of cutting off your nose to spite your face a little bit there in the sense that
Speaker A
you're Yeah. You've saved yourself 2030 million pounds which probably Arsenal could afford but you've ended up Christo solis isn't it?
Speaker A
Yes, another Christo but you've ended up without the attacking sort of increase in standards that you wanted and as much as I agree Morgan Rogers isn't of the level of Venicious Junior H Alvarez he is better than what Arsenal had on the left last
Speaker A
season. Yeah. So, and it was very clear in James' piece that he was saying that Morgan Rogers called on the on the actual move because it felt as though they were more interested in getting Venicious Junior than him and that allowed Chelsea to
Speaker A
come in, I guess. Yeah. And I think that's another thing that Arsenal fans have had difficulty with this transfer window is Andre Alberta has quite a a reputation for being this plate spinner where he uh goes for multiple candidates at the at a
Speaker A
time, negotiates quite publicly with multiple people at a I saw that Twitter video where he was dropping all the plates. You see that one?
Speaker A
I have seen that one. And I I think a that's something that goes on in the transfer market and everyone knows about it, but you kind of just have to keep that hush hush. You just don't make that
Speaker A
your thing, I would say. And b I think you end up kind of making a lot more enemies than friends. And in this world of Premier League transfers where everyone's buying from everyone and Premier League teams buy from
Speaker A
Premier League teams, I think having good relationships particularly with other Premier League teams is really, really important. And from James' piece, it seemed like the way Arsenal went about the Bruno Garage deal kind of, you know, pissed off Newcastle. And the way
Speaker A
they went about Jeremy Monga deal at the start of the window, that kind of pissed off Leicester as well, who ended up going to Manchester.
Speaker A
Exactly. They ended up getting Bruno G, but probably for more than they could have done if they' just gone through the front door instead of, as James put it, going through the back door, I guess.
Speaker A
But you're great at this analogy. You really nailed it. I just sort of going through business. else. I think that the the way you conduct business now is so important. You look at deals like Chelsea and Aston have done some deals
Speaker A
where um they've done a lot of business in between the two clubs recently which suggest the relationships between the two clubs are quite good. So you need to find ways of fostering those positive relationships and I don't think Arsenal
Speaker A
have done that and it's left them in a position now where instead of as John was saying potentially going and winning games two and 3-0 there's probably going to be a lot more 1-0il slogs like we saw against Aston Villa
Speaker A
and I don't know that anyone's particularly down for that cuz as much as you said it wasn't a real title race.
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felt pretty real to me and that's because every game was kind of like just on the cliff edge where like so if something goes wrong then that's almost the point I'm making with like if you're a player like
Speaker A
Venicious Junior who can play for Real Madrid and you have maybe two or three of those games a season that the the prospect of then going and and the footballing reality being a lot of these games are going to be you're working 90
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minutes you can't stop one mistake and you and you're potentially costing your team the league surely surely there's I don't know. There's nothing in that for a really elite player. The other thing I wanted to say is, and I know
Speaker A
you're working on a piece on Daniel Levy at the moment. I wonder if there's parallels between Levy and and Bura. Um there's a quote from Bura in James' piece where he says, "My time in banking gave me a solid foundation in economics
Speaker A
and a deep respect for the value of money, which um I don't know, it's not my experience of most bankers." Well, yeah, but but also I think you know with with Miguel Delane's piece coming out where he's talking about in
Speaker A
the independent where he's talking about how football is maybe approaching its big short um uh event horizon as a result of money expense from creditors.
Speaker A
Yeah, exactly. Um it just feels like when you say something like that as a as a as a finance guy at a club, you're in the wrong business, right? Because like there there is no value to money. like
Speaker A
we're almost at that point where, you know, as soon as Spurs decided to spend 100 million on Sandro Tali, everything just bumps up by, you know, 2030 million. And um well, that was the interesting thing about James' piece was that the that he
Speaker A
he he uses the reference point of Man City buying Elliot Anderson as the changing point for how Aston Villa valued Morgan Rogers. and that, you know, that he almost uses that as a kind of um as a starting point for what
Speaker A
I don't even think that's the right starting point because I think that like the biggest thing the biggest story that I think we've seen if you take a step back in the last like three or four years has been Premier League to Premier
Speaker A
League transfers becoming basically the only game in town in the market. Like there so much of the market is now the massive premtorem transfers which never really used to happen this way. I think I'm not sure. I was trying to think like
Speaker A
where would you date it from? like would it be you know it's only like obviously Greish went to City in 2021 for 100 million then in 2023 you've got Rice going to Arsenal for just over 100 million Kaised going to Chelsea for
Speaker A
about 115 I think Fernandez Enzo Fernandez obviously this summer he who was that window as well wasn't he he was from Benfica yeah that was 100 million plus we're talking about Premier League to Premier League so basically there's a
Speaker A
kind of and then ESAC obviously LA this time last year for 125 and I think that all that all of that is the context for this summer where now clubs are very very happy to pay 100 plus well into the
Speaker A
hundreds for players who are who have already shown in the Premier League. It's amazing. I was thinking the other day like it genuinely only 5 years ago in the summer of 2021 um Harry Kane was 27 years old had three years left in his
Speaker A
city contract sorry in his Tottenham contract Manchester City tried to sign him and their open opening offer was 75 plus 25 for Harry Kane for 27y old Harry Kane with his peak years still to come who should now be worth 200.
Speaker A
Yeah, exactly. And like for and I know that City were kind of lowballing Tottenham a bit at that point but Pep still really wanted Kane. Um, and so that just shows you how much the market has changed and now what we've se I
Speaker A
think and so I think like so I don't think it started with Elliot Anderson. I just think Ellie Anderson is a continuation of a trend that we've seen in the last three years. And now the fact is like the big the big Premier
Speaker A
League clubs like the traditional big six are incredibly relaxed about paying nine figure sums to get to get in guys from the Premier League. And it's almost like I think I said this on on this the other week like it's almost feels to me
Speaker A
like they're not that interested in value. It's more well he's proven in the Premier League so let's get him in. And like I'm not down on Anderson as a player. I think he's a fantastic player.
Speaker A
But I think if you look at all these deals it's like clubs are so relaxed about paying that premium now. And you can point to you know Rogers, Tanali, tons of other examples. But for me that is the story of this window.
Speaker A
It's it's it's risk over value, isn't it? It's like you d-risk by getting someone who you know will probably work rather than worry about if you you bring someone in from somewhere else maybe you'll save 20 30 million but if they
Speaker A
don't work who cares you yeah they always want the lowrisk option and the lowrisk option is the guy who's already in the Premier League and that's basically that's why Brenford and Brighton have such a great time of it
Speaker A
right because they take the risk like if you sign Sangar from Liga you take the risk in getting him in and then in two years time I'm sure Sangar will like go to Liverpool or go to Chelsea for
Speaker A
million and basically like the big 16 that signs him is paying a sort of you know 56 million pound premium based on what exactly yeah like Brenford pocket that money that profit and that and that profit is basically the big six team
Speaker A
that's what they pay to to mitigate the risk or to take out the risk or sorry rather to have Brenford bear the risk of the transfer and that's basically how it works now.
Speaker A
Yeah. Should we play Rondo? Oh yeah. All right, there he is. Okay, this the reason that Jack Pipbrook is here is to play Rond. But first, we must listen to advertisements.
Speaker A
There we go. Okay, that was a nice little break, wasn't it? Now, I've chosen today's Rondo category uh in honor of our Ring for analysis episode, which is being released uh on on audio platforms on Saturday. John, we're going
Speaker A
to be talking about Jose Mourinho's Real Madrid rebuild and what happened for him in the summer. So, I've been thinking about Jose Mourinho, doing a little bit of reading about him. And I thought, oh, this should be quite a fun rondo. What
Speaker A
I'm looking for are top 20 appearance makers for Jose Mourinho across all of his clubs that he's managed.
Speaker A
Before we start, can I suggest a Reuben rule where we all close our laptops?
Speaker A
Yes, please do close your laptops. There's been some disgraceful going on. Reuben's cheated twice in a row. Not by looking at his laptop.
Speaker A
Yeah. No, he did. He was looking at the Premier League teams, which I think No, no, no. He asked to look at the Premier League teams. He didn't actually sounded on the podcast.
Speaker A
And then you said you said looking at this. Oh my god. We should fire him from his job.
Speaker A
Absolutely horrific. That would secure me Rond Del Re probably at the end of the year.
Speaker A
Oh my god. You've got JPB in the room. I know you should be saying that.
Speaker A
I'm also going to lose it now. Um, okay. Okay. Right. Here's how the rondo works.
Speaker A
I ask a question. Today's question is 20 top appearance makers. We just say Marinho. We go around the room. We give answers. If we give incorrect answers, we're rejected from the Rondo. If we give an answer that has been given
Speaker A
before active listening, we're ejected from the Rondo. The final person standing is named Rondo Del Rey. And I shall begin JPB with you. Now, of course, this one I'm going to introduce slightly one new rule for for this game.
Speaker A
Everyone gets not a debut grace. Everyone gets a difficulty grace because I think there's an element of luck in here. Just has been a manager for a very long time. This is harder than a normal Ronda. So, it's okay to get one wrong
Speaker A
answer. JPB after you. John Terry. John Terry number two. 267 appearances. Frank Lampard. Frank Lampard number three. 215. Bit of a drop off there.
Speaker A
Those were the two good ones. Well, no. I mean, those were two and three. Really?
Speaker A
There's one good one. Ricardo Carvalia. That's number one. Of course, 293 because he played for Porto and Chelsea and Real Madrid.
Speaker A
And Real Madrid. Yeah. Really? Mhm. Wow. I didn't have that written down. Okay, Jack. Back to you.
Speaker A
Peter Czech. Petek is there. 196 appearances. John Nmana Matic<unk>. Nman Mati<unk>. Yeah, he's also there.
Speaker A
So we've now got uh five and six out as well. Great show. Ka uh Ddier Drogba.
Speaker A
Ddier Drogba is there 187 appearances. We're going down the list now though. JPB Paulo Ferrer.
Speaker A
Bao Ferrer. He was the missing number four. 212. John. There's some fun names on here.
Speaker A
As in like as in there's there's one or two like unexpected names, but you but I do require an answer from you. And also you because you get your difficulty grace, you really don't get to spend all this time thinking.
Speaker A
No, but I'm going to still carry on talking as though we're having that conversation.
Speaker A
No, we're not having any conversation. The thing is when you talk like this, it's actually I'm not thinking about anything other than just talking to you.
Speaker A
So I'm not getting any work, does it? Doesn't work at all. Say your name.
Speaker A
One, two, three, go. Uh Claude Malle. There you go. Works every time. 139 appearances. He's on the list. Ka Sergio Ramos. Sergio Ramos is there. 137 appearances for Real Madrid. JPB, back to you.
Speaker A
Eik Casillas. EK Casillas is there. He's just going through the goalkeepers. He's got He's got it down. He knows how to play the game.
Speaker A
It's a good strat. And also what what we're learning here is that there are Real Madrid players just who've only played for one one Mourinho who are on the list. So, it's interesting, isn't it? Over to you, John.
Speaker A
They're really taking a little bit of time. And the problem of course with Rondo is that the longer you take the more time you give your opponents to think as well.
Speaker A
Um Joe, well there's your difficulty gone. No, no, no. You can't change it. That was your difficulty.
Speaker A
That's why I get I don't have to get a correct one. No, no, you have to get a correct one now.
Speaker A
Damian Duff. Damian Duff also not there. You're out of here. There he goes. The thing is he doesn't really care and that's why you win the Rondo every week. Ka Cristiano Ronaldo.
Speaker A
Cristiano Ronaldo. Yes, he is. 64 appearances just for Real Madrid. Who said that? Karim Benzema.
Speaker A
Karen Benzema is not there. That's your difficulty grace gone. Okay, I need another correct answer from you now though.
Speaker A
I think that's because Karen Benzer only arrived what the season before Jose Mourinho took over 2009 and he didn't fully establish himself right right off the bat, did he? Because there was also who was that guy who then
Speaker A
went to was at Napoli as well. Don't say it in case I do. Um, Sammy Cadira also not. Oh no. Sammy Kadira not there either. Okay, JPB's out of the game.
Speaker A
Wow. Ka K with the for the first post Ruben rule Rondo. Can you take it home? You haven't even used your difficulty.
Speaker A
I've got two shots. You've got two shots. We've not mentioned any Inter Milan players, have we?
Speaker A
No. Okay, I'm going to given I've got one to go, I'm going to use Jack's goalkeeper tactic and say Julio Cesar.
Speaker A
Julio Cesar. Yeah, him. No. Cool. Not there. Cool. It was Jack's idea. Also, his name's Julio.
Speaker A
It's Julio, isn't it? Cuz he's Brazilian Portuguese. Oh Get wrecked. He's Brazilian. Man, you are having a bad time of trying to get Ka today.
Speaker A
That was bad. That's like the second time. Do you know what? It's because you said Julie and Alvarez before and I had it in my head to get you. Yeah. You said Julian Alvarez before and I was like
Speaker A
I'll getirect for you. No, no, no. Because he's he's um he's a Argentinian. Yeah. Where they where they Oh, no. Having a nightmare today.
Speaker A
Are you sure? Because in Argentinian they've got weird accent, haven't they? Yeah, but they do like two. The weird gazard rather than gardo. So, but All right, that's two failed. I'll be completely humble for the rest of the
Speaker A
episode, guys. Kay, I've given you plenty of thinking time. Yeah. The guess in my head, which I'm not certain of, but I think he was quite closely associated with him when he played at Real Madrid.
Speaker A
Are you playing for a throw it out there and see how Joe reacts approach to this?
Speaker A
There are nine correct answers remaining. There are nine left. We actually quite know all of them.
Speaker A
I know. Alroba. No. Would you like to guess one more? Michaelen. Michael is there. If you said Michael, you would have won. Of course, no one wins the Rondo today except me. I am Rondo Del Regent. It's been a long time
Speaker A
since the title has returned to me. Well played everyone. The host. Here's a few other names you could have had. Moving up from the lowest appearances up to the top.
Speaker A
Branislavanovic qualified just for Chelsea 115. Essuka Manini from Roma 122 appearances. I don't we would ever have got Pepe. You could have had for Real Madrid obviously. 25 appearances. Brian Christante for Roma. You could have had Rua Patricio for Roma. You could have
Speaker A
had. He was at Roma for a while. Goalkeeper. Here's a few interesting ones. Messa Özil for Real Madrid. 157 appearances, which is interesting because you don't think of me Özil as a very Mourinho player, but he was Jabi Alonzo. You could have had 150
Speaker A
current Chelsea manager 151 appearances for Real Madrid. And then my most favoritist one because he played for Roma and Manchester United Chris Smalling 38 appearances.
Speaker A
So I Kadira and whoever else I said from the Real Madrid team that didn't get on.
Speaker A
Who' I say? I said Kadira who wasn't on and Benzema. me. Like I guess Benzema did rotate a lot with Higuain at that point. They basically took it.
Speaker A
They basically took it. Kadira was injured all the time as well. Kadira was injured. But I should have I had Pepe. I mean it's pointless saying this now. I had Pepe in my head. should have gone for Pepe. I had Özil in my
Speaker A
head and I was like, didn't he fall out with Özil or something? I'm going to play it safe with Kadira. And in fact, I if I stuck with Pepe anyway was number 23. So, he he was just 21 and
Speaker A
22. So, 21 and 22 uh were David De Gea was in there. Ed Nazard was actually 20 and 21. David de Gary Cahill, Arboa, Javier Zenetti was the first that was in. I'm just looking down to see Sammy Kadira
Speaker A
was number 26. So, not not too far. Karen Benzema number 28. Still counts. Still counts as wrong.
Speaker A
Still counts as wrong, unfortunately. Right. Okay. There we go. That was a good one, wasn't it?
Speaker A
Technically, I think I won that because I stayed level with these two. Well, it's nice that you think it's nice in my book, isn't it? Now, there we go.
Speaker A
That was the Rondo. Well done to me. I'm the winner of the Rondo. Next, we will discuss Everton and Steve Hanky will make a seamless edit that that hides the fact that I went to get a drink of water
Speaker A
at this point. Yes. Now, Everton. Everton. Let's talk about Everton because if Arsenal had a somewhat tepid transfer window, which is not fair because they bought some really good players. If they had a warmish transfer window, Everton uh ended
Speaker A
Everton's transfer ended in igniminy on Tuesday night, didn't it? After You didn't write that word, did you?
Speaker A
I wrote that word. You wrote that word. Igny. I would have thought it would have just been It's one of those words where I would just be like, "Don't even try and say it." ignation.
Speaker A
A bit like Portugu or every Portuguese word, you know. Do you know what? You wouldn't know. So, you wouldn't know in terms of Portuguese words. I do know if you've heard this episode.
Speaker A
Would you like to know my favorite Portuguese word? Yes. John knows. We have a friend who's terrified of slugs, but he's Portuguese and we learn how to say so that we could look at him and say, "Does that mean slug in Portuguese?"
Speaker A
Yes, it does. It upsets him tremendously. Friendio, exactly. Minho. Now, that's probably very rude, isn't it? Now, US men's national team of Monaco striker Follin Ballagan Igny decided uh at the 11th hour that he didn't actually want to
Speaker A
join Everton. Now, this was a this was a crazy story from maybe it was the most interesting one. Um maybe we could we could probably run through it very briefly. He was at Everton's training ground having completed a medical. The
Speaker A
clubs had then agreed and reagreed fees because there was some kind of medical dispute which I think turned out to be quite a small thing by the sounds of it.
Speaker A
A deal sheet had been submitted to the Premier League which is to ask a special dispensation to have an extra hour or two just to complete the paperwork. So that's normally when it's purely administrative at that stage. Uh and
Speaker A
then after all of that, uh following Balagan actually decided he didn't want to join Everton and he left the training ground, which I think is is one of the ballerest moves I've ever heard. I mean, that's that's so that is well, it's not
Speaker A
obviously not funny for him or the club or any of the other people involved, but uh it's funny for me to hear. So, thanks Follin Balagan for doing that. Uh the club obviously Everton had already sold striker Betto Furina days earlier, which
Speaker A
leaves them with one recognized striker in the senior squad. That's Tenno Barry. uh otherwise known as John's only fantasy football hope in his team.
Speaker A
No, this is good for me, right? Guess he's got to he has to play.
Speaker A
Yeah. Well, no, it's not good for you because he will now definitely be injured for until January.
Speaker A
Yeah, that's true. Jack Greish returned on loan. Uh a mate and Niles arrived too as well as Hayden Hackne earlier in the window. Brennan Johnson, Christian Norard as well. Uh but departures also very very late in the window included um Ilman and Jai to
Speaker A
Manchester City and some somewhat worryingly it does leave Everton with a squad of just 21 senior players in other words extremely short and would be worrying as we said if they if they did get uh injuries. Um how bad was that
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window JPB? What do you think if if you gave Arsenal seven out of 10? What do you think? I mean it's easy to get carried away because deadline day was very bad for Everton. Maybe maybe the window overall not as bad, but what do
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you think? Uh pretty bad. I think based on Everton fans seem pretty upset at the moment. Um yeah, I think it was clear last season they just needed more quality.
Speaker A
Um they haven't really got that. I mean obviously Greish has come back in which is good. They've lost in DI but then they they haven't you know I think Melan is a good player. I think Hackne's a good player but they clearly needed
Speaker A
more. Like if you look at their like the rival their the other teams around where you would probably expect them to finish.
Speaker A
Yeah. This season they're all bringing in more players and clearly like you know there seems to be a degree of friction between David Moyes and the people running the club. Moyes has been a bit frustrated. I'm not sure Moyes has
Speaker A
really been backed with the players that he needs to keep Everton moving forward. It doesn't seem that fans seem pretty annoyed about this perceived lack of ambition and it's it's a really bad way to start the season basically in part and then for it all to
Speaker A
for the climax to be as dramatic as you know high-profile US international um coming to the club and then going and then turning us back and going home at the very end of the window is such an awful thing to happen at the end of
Speaker A
what's been a pretty bruising transfer window. I think the most interesting thing about that the saga the following Balagan saga is that I've listened to a lot of Everton fans over the last 24 hours to get their perspectives and none
Speaker A
of them blame him you know like ordinarily in a situation like this fans always kind of stand with their club and they say well the player doesn't want to come like oh he's us around on deadline day whatever that's a terrible
Speaker A
thing to do everyone I've heard has been like well he's obviously seen something he doesn't want to stay and you think how low is the fan base's morale but that's the perspective is like half of them are just joking that like well yeah
Speaker A
he spent he spent five hours at the Finch training ground and they decided I don't want to live here you know I think that's that's you know it's those sorts of details that that make it feel like um a fiasco
Speaker A
they are the funniest fan base I think the Everton fans maybe sense well I think maybe because they've just been beaten down so much over the last decade that they so obviously the famous tweet that was doing the rounds was
Speaker A
we've been food chained by the concept of free will like a player realizing that he doesn't have to play for us and we can we can move on. And there was there was another tweet that was doing around there was a guy who got banned
Speaker A
from going to the Hill Dickinson for for throwing someone across some chairs. And there was a photo of him and all Everton fans were quote tweeting it being like he's been banned for three years. Look how happy he is. This guy's just
Speaker A
cheesing away. So, well, there was there was an awful lot of anger as well on deadline day on social media because the the club account at around 10 p.m.
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released a video promoting the fact that they're they're reselling these special toffee donuts that they sold last year.
Speaker A
And there was a lot of like fan anger about about this as well. Apparently, these donuts a little overpriced.
Speaker A
Oh, yeah. Well, obviously the the the culinary department are strongly linked with the recruitment department at Everton, so it's good to hold them to account.
Speaker A
Special new signing with a soft inside. How about that? Anyway, I mean, do we is this uh is it too sort of catastrophizing to suggest that there could be a relegation worry here for Everton? Worry, I don't think it's too
Speaker A
catastrophizing. I think if you look at again what their rivals have got in terms of depth, they're all pretty set.
Speaker A
Hal have started the season better than anyone thought they would. Um Ipsswitch have looked okay in the first couple of games as well. So, it's not looking like the newly promoted teams going to be cut a drift and you know how teams have
Speaker A
stayed up in the past where there's just been three worse teams in them. It's not looking like that's necessarily going to happen this this time around. So, they need Tienna Barry to score a lot of goals or to put in a lot of good
Speaker A
performances between now and January and me too. Yeah. I would like to point out this at this moment that the reason I have Tenno Barry is because I can't pick anyone from the top half of the table season. I
Speaker A
would also like to add to that though that we picked in a draft system. You picked relatively early and you picked him over like Yoan Vissa who I chose.
Speaker A
You picked him over Igor Thiago who I also and now he's the only starting striker for Everton who may be in a relegation battle but that is a completely different By the way, Steve says the toffee donut was 6 pound50.
Speaker A
That's quite which is that's far too expensive isn't it? I think I think it is kind of unacceptable to leave yourself with such a thin squad like to particularly given how like physically demanding the Premier League is now.
Speaker A
Like it takes so much out of teams and there's no substitute for depth. So it feels like they're really kind of on thin ice, aren't they?
Speaker A
Self-inflicted as well. Like I don't think anyone made themselves the players they they ended up selling. You talk about free will. No one was forcing Everton to to do the deals they they did in terms of reducing their their level
Speaker A
of options. Well, in fact, fans did the opposite, right? I could forget the name of the play. It was Harrison Armstrong.
Speaker A
Harrison Armstrong, Everton player who was going to be proposed to be to be sold to Forest Forest. And I I was hoping everyone would say Forest then as well. Um but uh apparently the fan reaction to it was so
Speaker A
negative that that deal ended up not happening. I actually saw um um Everton fans praising David Ornstein because he mentioned it on TNT Sports, I think, and it was before the game and then the fans got wind of it before it happened before
Speaker A
a game so they could chant during the game. David is a hero. I always knew it.
Speaker A
Anyway, I guess I guess the the broader question here with Everton is just why is this happening? John, you shared an interesting article with us in in in the WhatsApp. I'm going to read a little extract from it now. This is from an
Speaker A
article by Paul Quinn who writes on football finance uh governance and and other fun stuff like that. Here here's the here's the exer and then you can tell us why you found this interesting.
Speaker A
The strategic direction set by the owners albeit not articulated is stabilization and asset appreciation not acquisition. Uh the recapital not all the words are this big by the way don't worry. the recapitalization, the JP Morgan refinancing, the stadium revenue
Speaker A
step change, the wage bill reduction, the collapse in amortization from£64.6 million to50.9 million. The low net spend, and the age profile reset all point the same way. The Freedkin Group, the owners of Everton, uh is aiming for a club that is cheap to run, compliant
Speaker A
by construction, and worth materially more than it cost. competitive ambition, if any, is being funded out of efficiency, not out of equity. So m maybe that's the context of why this is happening.
Speaker A
Yeah, I would recommend people go and read the piece by Paul Gwyn. It's very good. It's on his website, theesk.org.
Speaker A
Um so yeah, go there ahead of anything I'm about to say here. But the the the important context here is that we've changed the financial regulation around the Premier League uh teams this season.
Speaker A
So we've gone from um PSR which is about uh uh profit loss. Yeah. And they've shifted it to a ratio now squad cost ratio. Right. So when you have a ratio essentially what that means is you have a numerator at the top and a denominator
Speaker A
at the bottom. You have to get it below I can't remember what it is. Is it right? It's 85% for clubs not in UFA competition 70% um for for teams in UFA competitions. Yeah. And what that means essentially is that you need that that
Speaker A
fraction essentially that ratio to to equal below that. So the best way of doing that is to reduce the top number the numerator and increase the denominator. So the denominator is essentially revenue. So you've got to bring as much money into your club as
Speaker A
possible. The the and and then the top is the squad cost. So um and that takes into account lots of things, but I think most importantly it takes into account wages. So a lot of activity I think of
Speaker A
what's happening in the Premier League this season um in terms of the transfer activity you can if you view it through the concept of trying to lower your wage budget in order to get your squad cost ratio down it makes a lot more sense I
Speaker A
think so um yeah that so for example moving on Ilman and Jai was a lot about getting his wage off the books and and bringing the and bringing the the money in from his from his fee both of those
Speaker A
things contribute towards that so um I think there's a lot of clubs who've done that. Um, so a lot of fan base is confused about why their clubs are selling certain players. I think a lot of it has to do with actually getting
Speaker A
wages off off the books because that hasn't really been as much of a factor before. And so yeah, I guess what what the the summary that you just read essentially what a club like Everton are going to try and do because they don't
Speaker A
have the ability to raise the denominator the the revenue a huge amount. They've obviously tried to do that with the stadium stuff and and and boo boost that up. uh the the be the next best thing is to operate with the
Speaker A
lower um 21 players. Well, yeah, that but also I think in terms of this is the point that he's making is they're not going to buy high and have high wages. They're going to buy low, have low wages and generate
Speaker A
revenue in that sense by player sales. Yeah. Um so yeah I think I think I haven't read this piece in detail but I think there is another implication there which is that the things that Everton appear to have
Speaker A
been doing are generally speaking the things that you would do if you wanted to sell the club like if you like again speaking generally rather than specifically in the case of Everton. Yeah. But if if you own a football club and you want to sell
Speaker A
it, the best thing you can do is have a tight wage bill because your books are going to be getting poured through by potential investors and paint the walls and the investors need to know that the club is not hemorrhaging far beyond its
Speaker A
means on sal on on player salaries. Uh and so having like running a really like I think it it is often the case that clubs who are you know kind of curious about the market and curious like oh how
Speaker A
much could we sell the club for will often like get their books in really tight order before any potential sale simply because they know that if they're if they've blown hundreds of millions of pounds on salaries and they've committed huge
Speaker A
contracts to new players then people thinking buying the club might be like gh I don't have quite a lot of salary on the books there I'm not commitment to whatever but actually like so I think it's yeah so I think that might be a way of that
Speaker A
might be a way of understanding what Everton are doing at the moment okay hypothetically were that to be the case do you think it's a bit of a risk given that like another thing that would impact your sell sale value would be
Speaker A
being releg relegation oh yeah like uh I think that that is an issue that a lot of clubs run into right is that investors like investors are terrified of relegation.
Speaker A
Investors hate it. They hate they hate the the prospect of relegation because obviously relegation relegation not only tanks your your revenue and your valuation but even like the fear of relegation tanks your your value I think.
Speaker A
Yeah. So it's a it's a really really difficult balance balance to strike for for any for any team that was in that such a position.
Speaker A
I think as well it would be interesting to see what they do in January because they've given themselves headroom to spend if they need to. So well they will need to I think they will need to buy a striker.
Speaker A
Well yeah but but even from again from Paul Quinn's piece he just says a sale uh the sale of Jai at the reported level transforms a position on the same assumptions disposal at circa 60 million pounds against a resid low residual book
Speaker A
value moves the indicative ratio from the high 80s. So that's your squad across ratio going from the high 80s to the high 60s which is well below where they need to be. So even to play in Europe.
Speaker A
Yeah. Exactly. So again, they're in a position where if they wanted to, if they are in danger of relegation, it may be that they splurge a little bit in January.
Speaker A
Okay. Okay. Well, let's wait and see for for January. In the meantime, Everton fans understandably livid. Now, let's talk about Spurs. Uh the window closing also means that Spurs finally have to stop buying players, Jack, which is going to be a surprise. I've got very
Speaker A
used to them buying players every week that I'm alive. Spurs, they made 10 first team signings now without looking at your laptop. I know you've been writing about these all all summer, so it should be a dodle for you. Uh, can
Speaker A
you name all of those 10 players? Do you want fees as well? Oh, yes, I do. I do want fees.
Speaker A
Do you want them in the chronological order in which they were signed? Do you want them in positions?
Speaker A
I want them I want you to go from like loans first, then free transfers, then then up in terms of value.
Speaker A
Wow. Okay. To the most expensive last. Can you do that? Uh the most expensive at the top.
Speaker A
Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. At the at the end of your list. Okay. So loans first.
Speaker A
So loan with option 775 million pound buy option. Milkyo Mud from Chelsea. Congratulations. Yeah, that's good.
Speaker A
Loan with 50 million pound obligation. Omar Moose from Manchester City. And I like that you put obligation above option because that does imply more risk financially. This guy is so good. Okay, now we got free transfers.
Speaker A
Um Sessi from Bournemouth. Mhm. Robertson from Liverpool. Yeah. Dravka from Burnley. That was the potential.
Speaker A
Now we're going now we're going to permanence. We're going permanence, but like sending value cheapest first.
Speaker A
So the cheapest permanent was to advio correct from Chelsea for 7 million. I've got I'm in euros here, but that's fine. 11.65 million euros. Yeah.
Speaker A
And then of the remaining permanents, the next cheapest is actually a big jump up to Jean Vanera 52 million for Brighton.
Speaker A
Yes, correct. And then the next one after that would be Savio from Manchester City. Sort of 75 million.
Speaker A
Another quite big deal. Initial 75 initial plus ads. Uh and then Matius Fernandez 85 million in fixed.
Speaker A
Yeah. From West Ham United. And Sandra 92.5 fixed uh plus ads from Newcastle. Wow.
Speaker A
You shouldn't be surprised. This is my whole life. Subscribe to the Athletic everyone. This is my whole life. This is my whole brain. There's nothing else in there.
Speaker A
Does he get Does he get There used to be del Rey for that. They used No, I don't deserve I don't deserve Ronald Reeds to be so much other stuff in my brain apart from transfer.
Speaker A
Now when Jack leaves the room, we finish the podcast, he just goes to stand in the corner and goes like that and then waits for the next it'll be on view from the lane by the way. When when do you
Speaker A
publish View from the Lane? Uh Mondays and Wednesdays generally. Mondays and Wednesdays. That's the Athletic Spurs podcast. You should listen to that. Uh okay. Right. If we're ranking windows, how how do we rank this window? It's quite hard to rank, isn't
Speaker A
it? I would say. No, I think it's a really good window. I think it's The fact is the squad was obviously miles away from being good enough. Like two 17th place finishes in a row, don't lie. And they they were
Speaker A
really bad. They be they've been really bad for a while basically. And they needed a lot of good players in the door early on. I think what we've seen from Tottenham this summer is a completely radical rethink of how they approach
Speaker A
various aspects of the market. So fees like they they spend the fees they paid for Savio, Fernandez and Tanali are way in excess of anything they paid in the past. Their previous transfer record was about 55 million for Kudis and Salanki.
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Yeah. Um salaries again they've shattered their they used to have a very very um kind of regulated wage structure. That's completely out the window now. They think they've realized you can't you can't run a competitive football team in
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the Premier League without paying big money. And so that's not, you know, big money is obviously how they will have got in players like Tanali, but also they give massive new contracts to people like Py and Van Defen who will
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have more than doubled their salaries over the course of this summer. And thirdly, they've had a much more pragmatic approach to selling. Like I think I think in the past Tottenham used to hang on to players a bit too long. I
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think they used to think like unless we can sell someone in what I call Gareth Bale's conditions for as in you've got like a really good player who is wanted by the biggest teams in the world, you can sell him for £80 million. they did
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in 2013 they kind of other players they held on for too long be like they kind of weren't sure what to do with them they didn't want to get pushed around they didn't sell at the right time and
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actually the whole Pochettino team went really stale for this reason and lots of guys who they could have sold for really good money you know at certain points like Delhi Erikson Toby uh Deworld and so on like Eric Dier Danny Rose they
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didn't sell them at the right time they all they ended up leaving for practically nothing right and so Spurs lost out hundreds of millions of pounds of market value for clinging on to players for too long. That is gone. So
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this summer they've been really pragmatic. Like guys who are no guys who are kind of maybe a bit down the pecking order or maybe a bit grumpy, they've gone. They're all gone. Like so you know Romero who's the captain gone. Not for a
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huge amount of money like less than they paid for him which is a bit of a surprise but he's out the door.
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Spencer's gone. Uh Vicario's gone. Sar's gone. Ralison almost left. Yeah. Danso's gone. Mich, let's wait and see there cuz there still a few days left from kind of transfer windows other markets. Yeah.
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Um so that's like a kind of core of the team really from the last few years.
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They've all gone they've been very they've been so ruthlessly efficient in terms of getting bodies out of the building and getting bodies into the building in a way they've never been before.
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Um and the team looks very different. Like they didn't get everything they wanted. They obviously wanted a kind of top left winger in the last few days of the market. Um they didn't get gapo.
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They didn't get NDI. They've ended up with Mudrik who I think is I think a lot of fans think that's a bit of an odd one.
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Roberto Derby says he can will a Bond door in the future. Yeah. So they deserve obviously coached him at Shakar a few years ago when Madrid was coming through and he was to be fair electric in that champ that Champions League run they
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had. Yeah. Super super super talented player and Spurs do really need pace on the left. I guess my issue with that is like what is the what is the difference between Mudriick and Tell because Mudrick's had this weird career. It almost feels to me like
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Mudriick is now almost a development player again. He's like a project player. He's not played for he's not played for two years almost and that's kind of they already have like a project left winger who is raw but needs work in Tel and they own Tel
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and they don't own Madri. So I think that's a slightly odd one and he's not he's clearly not the level of gap in DI who could go straight into the team and they could say right we paid a lot of
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money for you give us some goals and assists is there an option or an obligation there is an option there isn't there is a big option with Madrid to 50 million 75 million I think I believe we reported
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I don't know it feels weird to me I don't know it does feel a bit weird it does feel a bit weird I think it's you're doing the rehab for Chelsea and then and then if he's like incredible
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you're like fine we'll pay the 75 million but to hit that 75 million level.
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I almost wonder whether it would be maybe there's a world in which Madri is pretty good but enjoys it and enjoys working with Derby and Derby likes working with him and maybe this is I mean I'm massively speculating here but
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maybe they could then negotiate a fee lower than the option that does that has happened in the past right where like sometime sometimes the buying and the selling club will just agree something which is less than the option. It it
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just on on paper it just looks like Spurs are doing a massive favor for Chelsea by rehabbing a player who hasn't played for two years and then the option is so high that it's almost like not the value isn't there
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for them. You know if it had been like 40 million perhaps you then say okay on the flip side the other way of looking at it is the fact that it is an option rather than obligation does give Tottenham a degree of control
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over the situation. Yeah. Like if it was an obligation then suddenly Spurs would be on the hook for a lot of money.
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Yeah. Do you share I we haven't spoken to you since um the Newcastle game at the weekend. Do you share my opinion that although the result was bad, the performance was okay and Spurs will probably be fine. If by fine we mean top
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half finish, they played okay they played okay in spells. I think they will be fine for the simple reason they've got good players. If you've got good players and a good manager, you will probably be okay. Um I think it will take them a
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long quite quite a while to become good and to click because they're effectively starting from scratch now. Like I know Deserby got the job in March, but the last few games of last season, they were like fighting for their lives to stay
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up. They were playing a very pragmatic brand of football that was not like a deserby ball at all really. It was basically just can we keep clean sheets and somehow scrape goals and which they did scrape goals. I'm not sure that's
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the right verb. Scrape goals. Let's go with it. Um and and also with a bunch of guys who are not there, you know, Colani is not there anymore. Pellini is not there anymore. Dano's not there. Um, Romero, Romero's gone. So, there's been
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like there's been a big change in personnel. So, I I almost think this season, I mean, you can kind of draw a line between what happened at the end of last season, say Spurs are starting again now, and only
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now Terrier is going to try and teach them the the kind of complexities and subtleties of his football.
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But a lot of those guys have just shown up because they've just been signed. And some of them have been at the World Cup and like uh and you know, they had a sort of slightly choppy summer. they had
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to go to Australia and New Zealand on tour and then come back and uh so I think it's going to I think it's unfair to judge them soon. I think they absolutely I think like I think it's fair to say let's see how they're
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getting in how they're doing in November November and December. I do think not being in Europe will be good for them because they'll have more time in the training ground to work but ultimately like you step back big picture
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there is a huge amount a huge amount of owners. Can you have an amount of owners? There's a huge amount of onus on deserby to build a winning team because he's got the good players.
Speaker A
Yeah. Okay. Can I come in on this? We've just me and Alex Bark have just done a video on on that game. Spurs versus Newcastle.
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The Barkazoid. The B. Yeah. Yeah. Um that's coming out tomorrow, I think, tomorrow morning.
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Yeah. With And what we what we were doing in that video is contrasting the simplicity of Newcastle's approach with the complexity of of Dererby's approach. But what I would say on the basis of that game, I think that it's clear that Derby is
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having an immediate impact on these players, right? The you can see the plan unfolding. You can see that the players understand what they're supposed to be doing from a from a theoretical point of view.
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Put your foot on the ball. In the first half, they found ways of doing um what what Dererby wants, right?
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Which is this idea of creating space in the middle and then having these tempo shifts through the middle where they can then access the wingers. So, you know, early on there's that Matias tell Matis tell his he had a chance that, you
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know, pulled off a good save from Horn and there's a few other good examples of of like deserby football happening. But I I had I think I have a couple of worries about Spurs. One of them is that
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um in the second half Yisler So in the first half um Newcastle were quite I think conservative with their press. So they pressed using a hybrid system which means that you basically underload. So there was two players covering three
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Spurs players and you try and cheat between them to make it feel like you're you're not getting that. In the second half, Yisel changed it up so they just went straight manto man. So there was someone um man marking Tanali entirely
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the the second half and Spurs looked much worse I think in the second half.
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Tali was substituted off as well, wasn't it? Yeah. Um the other thing is that in the first half there was plenty of situations where if it wasn't Sandro Tanali in the spot that he was in, I think Spurs would have actually
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progressed the ball much better. And I wonder whether or not that is going to be the thing that actually does for Deserby in the end because I which is worrying when we got to the end of Jack's list and he was the top.
Speaker A
Yeah. Right. And you know Tanal is a fantastic player. He's fantastic in certain phases of play. I still struggle to understand and the upsides you get in one phase of play like almost clash with the upsides in another phase of play. So
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if you can't build through the middle as well with with Sali because he is not as good at receiving with his back to goal.
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um his positioning was a little bit off at times um and you know he's just not as technically good as someone like I think Matez Fernandez in that in that kind of role then what you do is you
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move him into the wide areas and then you try and progress the ball in the wide areas with him making runs you lose the ball in the wide areas because it's harder to progress the ball in the wide
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areas because in the middle you have 180 degrees to progress into you only have 90 degrees in the wide areas it means makes it easier for the opponents to defend in those wide areas and there's a number of occasions where Tanali is
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making runs down the the line, which he's really good at, and and you know, adds that burst of pace. If they lose the ball in those scenarios, their large space defender, who is supposed to be in the middle for for these transition
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moments, isn't there. And so you there's just so many little things like that that I and I just think the problem now is that Deserby has to sort of play because he's the 100 million pound player. If you start dropping him more
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and more or hooking him up at certain points in the game, I think it becomes very hard for him to to to get the buy in that that he needs to get. And and again for me it's a timing thing, right?
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I think they're a low floor high ceiling approach, right? The ceiling is really high. If you can get everyone clicking and and you know, suddenly the the positioning is perfect, the body shape is perfect and the the passes are
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perfect. Um but the problem is is it's a low floor approach when it doesn't work.
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And that's the question like are they going to keep banging against the floor for too long that he doesn't get the time to actually develop the complexity of the the approach? I don't know. But that's sort of where I'm at with with
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Spurs right now. Okay. Fascinating, isn't it? Yes. Make that noise again, Ka. There it is. I like that noise. Okay, let's have a quick advertisement break.
Speaker A
Okay, let's talk about Man City's new midfield. Man City, I don't know if you know Man City have a new midfield.
Speaker A
They spent the North. Make that noise one more time, Ka. There it is. I love that noise. It sounds like you've seen a tasty cake on a window. The window toffee donut. Do you remember back in the day when old
Speaker A
cartoons used to just be a lot of the time there was either a war going on or there was a character that was being drawn towards the smell of a pie.
Speaker A
Oh yeah. On a window on a window. Who was leaving their pies on? The smell would sort of like turn into like a finger that like tap you on the shoulder sometimes.
Speaker A
Absolutely. But but but but who in the past was leaving these freshly baked pies on windows to cool down?
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So they cool down. Sounds like No, but what about the insects? The window. Oh yeah. No.
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Uh like those Facebook groups for um old people which are like who remembers who remembers when moms used to bake pies and leave them on the window sill for passing school children to smell as they walk back home. Yesterday I
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watched uh all of a a documentary on the BBC archive YouTube channel which is a documentary.
Speaker A
It's the best YouTube channel ever created. Oh wow. The BBC are just dumping dumping and dumping these incredible old programs that that ran throughout the decades on YouTube with with not so much dumping that with some with some
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catering but there is a fantastic one that was it was um made by Martin Par who was a photo photojournalist a famous photojournalist of the of the last decade of the last century sorry uh and it's it's was set in 1999 and he travels
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the length and breadth of England and the question is just what do you think of England? That's it. It's, you know, he's behind the camera. Yeah. There's fantastic scenes of Blackpool on a night out where people are getting rockous and
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crazy. Lovely scenes of the windy south coast of London, of Manchester. And I was sat there thinking I got caught in that trap of thinking, "Oh, it was better in the past. Wasn't it better in the" And then you go, "No, it wasn't. It
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wasn't. It was a lie in the past that it was better." Or was it better in the past? Maybe Maybe it was for a man as privileged as myself. Perhaps it was better in the past, but it wasn't better
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in the past for everyone. Although could it have been better in the past? Maybe if you look at the past in a smaller window of time and not a larger window of time because there's an ascending line over time, but you wouldn't say
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that there's not these ups and downs along the way. Do you know what I'm saying? Why am I talking about this? How did I get here?
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My favorite things are the the ones, you know, where they interview children in like the 1970s and they all have RP and they ask them questions like what will the future look like?
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I would like to grow up to be a firefighter. I think people have flying cars. Yeah. And then there'll be someone be like, I think that women should have rights and eventually it will happen. So you're just like, okay. And then
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occasionally you'll say, I think that um there'll be some sort of complicated interconnective system of computers in the future that will reduce social interaction and everyone will be very sad and lonely and you go, that's stupid, you stupid kid. Get back in the
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estate. You know, anyway, the past is fun, isn't it? It's good. It's good. I'm just want um I'm just wondering when John thinks women got the right to vote.
Speaker A
Look, these are very old videos. It's all resolved now, Steve. It's fine. The sony doesn't exist.
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Goodness. The now is better than the past. Yes, of course. Now, uh is better than the past. For Manchester City, perhaps it is because they've bought a new midfield, including many other players.
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Now, JBB, without looking at your computer, and I'm I'm glad to see you still have it closed. Please recite as many of Man City's deals as you can remember. I will tell you that I have here on my list, I have nine of them.
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You don't have to do them in ascending order if you don't want to, but if you want to make it more public, you can.
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Uh, Geronimari. Uh, yes, that now you're starting in ascending order. That's perfect. From Marseilles, three and a half million euros. That's the smallest deal.
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Jeremy Now that you're skipping one, you're miss you're missing a goalkeeper from Northern Ireland whose brother recently signed for Fulham and whose namesake was James Brown.
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You're missing Pierce Charles. Pierce Charles. Sheffield Wednesday. Three and a half million. Should be expected to know that one.
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We'll still clap. Yeah. Jeremy. Yes. From Leicester. 11 million euros. Yeah. Allan. Allan's a bit of a Yeah. One more.
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You're jumping. You're jumping. Matias Detob. Never heard of heard. Well, they Well, they spent €25 million on him from Tro they as in Treaty of Tua.
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Yeah. Bend. Yeah. Well, anyway, that settled the 100 years war. Huah. The Treaty of Tua.
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Is that what it does? Is that Is that the one that ended the 100? Well, so like the Versailles is what the Versailles was to World War I. 1420 peace agreement that made King Henry 5th of England the heir and regent to the
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French fro. Sadly, he never actually got to become king of France. That is a shame, isn't it? Cuz that would make us the kings of France.
Speaker A
Why did he not become the king of France? Uh he died he died. I think he died soon after that on the battlefield. Yeah.
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And so I think his son I think when Henry V 6th became king like England tried to say well of course he's king of France too. And then French said, "I'm not sure. Not not so sure about that." And then there were because
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um No, I think it was kind of Like I I don't I'm not sure. I think the English were I think we were kind of taking the piss a bit with the like Henry the 5th really had no claim to be
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king of France. It was all it was it was all based on I mean this is what the first few scenes of Henry the play Henry the 5th are about are basically cooking up this like reason to invade
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France with based on like if you think about Salic law exactly if you think about it Henry V is kind of the rightful king of France isn't he and they just kind of cook it up but there were no
Speaker A
weapons of mass destruction exactly yeah and I've seen like it's quite common there was certainly a point like in the two like after the Iraq war where If you went to a production of Henry V, they would massively ham up like the extent
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to which this was like Iraq W. Yeah. And um so yeah, but the upshot of this was after the success of Henry the Fifth going over there and Azinor and so on. Uh it got England into a position
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where they could say, "Oh yeah, we know we really he really is king." Like maybe not right now, but like when the current French king dies, we are totally the kings of France. And obviously it didn't, you know, it was in the end it
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didn't come to pass. It's cool to try though, isn't it? You know, like it's kind of the same as me saying I am the king of France.
Speaker A
Yeah, why not give it a go? Cook it up. Give it a try. Some salic law.
Speaker A
Like when Arsenal tried to buy Venicius Junior, you know, we are the king of Venicious Junior.
Speaker A
We are the king of Venicius Jun. Actually, we do own him. Yeah. You've wasted enough time to think of the next player.
Speaker A
Uh so not in order anymore. No, that's fine. Illeman and Di. Yes, of course.
Speaker A
It is in order though. Uh Aubadi also in order. Elliot Anderson. Still in order. and uh just happened a couple days ago. The big one.
Speaker A
Uh the big boy. Hundreds of hundreds. Yes. Well done. Another round of applause for JP. Congratulations. Okay.
Speaker A
I mean that do you know what? I don't want to say this sounds crazy. I think it might be because I wasn't paying attention rather than because it's actually true of like in a kind of zeitgeisty way. But my first question
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was did did Man City kind of just sort of quietly build what could be the best Premier League midfield? I didn't really notice them doing it because it happened over a long period of time.
Speaker A
It's kind of weird, isn't it? Because City City would be so good, I think, for a long time at stability and squad planning. Yes. So, if you go back to the the start of Pep in midfield, they would
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have Fernandinho, Davis Silva, De Bruyne, they'd have Gundawan as well to even at the very beginning, right?
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Yeah. But Pep kind of dropped him early on. But so they were basically those four midfielders and it was a case of how do you fit all four of them? do you go to a box? And then over time they
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would steadily integrate new guys who came in. So obviously like David Silva retired. Bernardo like generally played out wide but could play them played a bit more in midfield over time.
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He's the perfect example because like Bernardo Silva's like curve into being totally vital was so slow and natural that I like when he came in he would kind of be like a like a clever little option on the right wing and then over time he
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became the orchestrator of the whole thing. Yeah. So he came in obviously Rodri came in after and kind of like Fernandinho passed the baton over to him and it was all very smooth and consistent Foden obviously started moving into midfield
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positions too. It was marvelous. But it's been in the last like two years that's all changed, right? And it's been like De Bruyne's gone, Gundowan's gone, Rodri's now gone, Bernardo's now gone.
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Um they tried other new guys who came in like Kovichic just never really convinced me. Grinders came in and like did one season.
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They brought in Matte Nunes to play as a midfielder and ended up he's now right back. Like Rinders didn't really work out. And so all of a sudden they need a whole new midfield. They've never really been in this position
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before because it's all been so smooth for the last like 10 years in the middle of the pitch and it's going to be really interesting to see how it works. I kind of don't know. I assume that Anderson
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will play as the six with like uh and then and they got to make use of Fernandez getting into the box because that's what he's so good at and then Buaddi linking in between. But I don't really know.
Speaker A
I don't know. What do you think? Do you think this could be the best midfield in the Premier League?
Speaker A
No. Why don't you think that the best midfield in the Premier League? Who's got the best midfield of the Premier League K? I'll answer.
Speaker A
Is this even a conversation? First and then I'll answer your second question second. So on your first question, I don't think so because I have questions about how it all fits. So like Jack was outlining there. Rayan Chery is
Speaker A
probably City's most creative and arguably one of the most important players right now. So you kind of think he has to play.
Speaker A
Have him in the team. He has to play. But then how do you have him and Foden and Anson and Batti? It doesn't quite work. and Fernandez.
Speaker A
Fernandez, I meant to say, sorry. Yes, I meant to say how do you have Cherokee, Fernandez, and San Buddy?
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Doesn't quite work. So, one of those near 100 million pounds, basically 100 million pound midfielders, is going to have to be on the bench.
Speaker A
It's going to be Batti. It's probably going to be Buddy, which to be fair as an 18-year-old isn't the worst thing in the world. Allow him to adapt slowly.
Speaker A
I mean, they brought him on at last weekend and he played 25 minutes and looked He's a very good player.
Speaker A
Fine. He very good player. He didn't look out of place at all. I I just feel like the Fernandez and Anderson duo kind of Can we call them the Fernanderson, please?
Speaker A
The Fernanderson partnership kind of limits a lot of their best capabilities in time. So, um you're asking Anderson to do a lot of the off the ball work that Fernandez isn't as good at.
Speaker A
Yeah. which kind of takes away a lot of what he was really good at in Forest when he was partnered alongside like a Sangare and he could kind of be a bridge in between Sangar and Gibbs White and it
Speaker A
kind of worked pretty well for him. I you know initially when Anderson came in and this is very right at the start of the summer I don't think City were planning to sell Rodri at that time and the idea of Rodri and Anderson as a
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midfield duo to me made perfect sense and Anderson and Batti makes perfect sense to me as well. I think if you have Anderson and Fernandez, you kind of Fernanderson.
Speaker A
Fernanderson, sorry. Um, Anderson's not quite as good at progressing the ball as a body or Rodri in the past. And I think Fernandez in a two at Chelsea never really convinced me.
Speaker A
And I don't think he ever really necessarily convinced me that much in a three, but because of Churkey we've outlined, he can't really play in a three. So I I've got some questions about how it works and the balance of it
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all. And for me, Fernandez, I felt like they had it perfect with bloody Anderson and Turkey. I think that's a brilliant midfield. Fernandez coming in with like the level of status of a 125 million and you know joint British record fee
Speaker A
transfer and he's going to play because Moresca loves him. Right. Exactly that. But it kind of for me feels like it's a bit indulgent almost and it's kind of messed up the perfect mix they had in midfield a little bit.
Speaker A
But you know he does have strength and like the box crashing thing will work quite well for City because of the way they generate chances and that kind of stuff.
Speaker A
Make that noise again. There it is. That's the end of the show JPB. Thank you very much.
Speaker A
Thanks. John McKenzie, thank you. Cheers Ka. There it is. We've Look, we found a new thing. It's just you going Steve. Hanky, thank you.
Speaker A
Steve, thank you. Thank you, I should say. And we will be back. Well, we've got Ring for Analysis on Saturday. As a reminder, that's not on YouTube. It's just you can find it on Spotify or Apple, wherever you get your audio
Speaker A
podcasts. We will be uh live streaming with Jack Collins and John McKenzie on Sunday after the Arsenal Chelsea game.
Speaker A
What a big one. That will be very exciting. And of course, we'll be back on Tuesday, uh, the normal time next week as well. But until then, Terra, farewell. Goodbye. Adue.
Topics:Arsenal transfer windowEverton deadline dayManchester City midfieldPremier League transfersTifo Football podcastfootball analysisPremier League 2023 summerfootball transfer reviewfootball podcastThe Athletic football
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