DEBATE: Trinity or Tawhid? (David Wood vs. Mohammed Hijab)

thank you very much brother alawa. so before we start this event i want to make sure to inform people why we are hosting this event. as your college muslim student msa, we're seeking to host a respectful and friendly dialogue debate between two key figures: david wood and muhammad hijab. both of these respected figures have expertise in their core beliefs. that said, the topic of the debate will be trinity or tawhid. the debate will focus on the essence of god from both christian and muslim perspectives. it will be an educational discussion platform expanding on core theological concepts. there will be significant references exchanged, both from the quran and the bible.

friendly dialogue debate between two keying figures David wood and Muhammad hijab both of these respected figures have expertise in their core beliefs that said the topic of the debate will be Trinity ored the debate will focus on the essence of God from both Christian

so before we start, i just want to make sure that the audience has this clear. there are going to be multiple opinions in this debate, so i don't want anyone to feel offended. we're here to learn about each other's opinions. if you feel easily offended, please do not react. at the same time, if any of the speakers make a statement that you feel is a very good statement, or you feel that you agree with, clapping is sufficient. we don't want any verbal cheering or something like that. this is a very educational debate. clapping is sufficient.

has have this clear uh uh we there are going to be multiple opinions in this in this debate so I don't want anyone to feel offended this is we're here to learn about each other's p uh each other's opinions if you feel easily

so without further ado, i would like to introduce my co-moderator, brother saleem raheem.

sufficient we don't want any verbal cheering or something like that this is a very this is a very educational debate clapping is sufficient so without further Ado I would like to introduce my co-moderator uh brother Saleem [Applause] raheim uh so this is how the format of

so this is how the format of the debate is going to start. we're going to have 20-minute opening statements for each speaker. then there's going to be a 12-minute first rebuttal and then an 8-minute second rebuttal. then crossfire examination, where the speakers will ask each other questions. each speaker will have six questions to ask the other speaker, and it will take two minutes to answer each of the questions. then we're going to have five-minute conclusions. as you can see, there are mics at the front where there's going to be a q&a session, where you can ask our brothers, muhammad hijab and david wood, any questions you have. please keep everything respectful. if there are any disrespectful remarks, you will be escorted out.

each other questions each speaker will have six questions to ask the other speaker and it will take two minutes to answer each of the questions then we're going to have five minute conclusions then as you can see there are mics in at

so without further ado, introducing our first speaker, dr. david wood.

there are any any disrespectful remarks you you will be escorted out so without further Ado introducing our first Speaker Dr David [Applause] wood so just a little background on Dr David wood he's a Christian evangelist and preacher David wood is a member of a

so just a little background on dr. david wood. he's a christian evangelist and preacher. david wood is a member of the society of christian philosophers, the evangelical philosophical society, and the hume society. he was a former atheist. david became a christian after examining the historical evidence of the resurrection of jesus. he's a contributor to the books *evidence for god*, *50 arguments for faith*, *from the bible*, *history*, *philosophy*, and *science*, *defending the resurrection*, and *true reason*, *christian responses to the challenge of atheism*. david has a phd in philosophy from fordham university and has been in more than 60 moderated public debates with muslims, atheists, and other christians.

Arguments for Faith from The Bible History philosophy and science defending the resurrection and true reason Christian responses to the challenge of atheism David has a PHD in Philosophy from four foram University and has been in more than 60

that's a little background on our first key speaker, dr. david wood. and without further ado, introducing his opposition, brother muhammad hijab.

Muhammad hijab he's an academic researcher and media host he is a debater and public speaker who engages in discussions and pmics on wide variety of topics including religion politics and Society he completed a politics degree and a masters in history from

a little background on brother muhammad hijab: he's an academic researcher and media host. he is a debater and public speaker who engages in discussions and panels on a wide variety of topics, including religion, politics, and society. he completed a politics degree and a master's in history from queen mary university. he has taught and instructed courses on humanities and languages in many contexts. he has numerous ijazas in some islamic sciences and has studied in multiple islamic seminaries, including the shi'ti institute, which employs a traditional madrasa-style of teaching the sacred sciences. mr. hijab is currently doing further postgraduate research in islamic studies at the school of oriental and african studies, university of london.

Marian style of teaching the sacred Sciences Mr hijab is currently doing further post-graduate research in his Islamic Studies at the school of advanced study University of London uh so uh like I said just please keep everything that I said in mind and

so like i said, please keep everything that i said in mind. i think we will start with brother muhammad hijab giving us his 20-minute opening statement.

none but Allah subhana wa tala and that's something we really need to think about we need to think about the Common Grounds that we have with Christians there's lots in common we believe in Jesus Christ we believe in the Messiah we believe in him

you know, the quran tells us the first thing we're asked to do when we're engaging with christian people is to come to common terms: that we worship none but allah, subhanahu wa ta'ala. that's something we really need to think about. we need to think about the common grounds that we have with christians. there's lots in common. we believe in jesus christ. we believe in the messiah. we love the messiah. we believe in jesus. we believe that he was born of the virgin mary. there's a whole chapter in the quran dedicated to her. but of course, the elephant in the room, or the difference of opinion, is in the fact that we as muslims do not believe that jesus was divine, or that the holy spirit is divine.

the fact that we as Muslims do not believe that Jesus was divine or that the holy spirit is divine today's discussion ladies and gentlemen is abouted and Trinity is monotheism to believe and worship in one God the Quran

today's discussion, ladies and gentlemen, is about trinity and tawhid, monotheism: to believe in and worship one god. the quran says: "say, he is allah, one and only, the eternal refuge of all. he neither begets nor is born, nor is there to him any equivalent." the trinity is defined by the athanasian creed, around 500 ad, as one divine person, that one divine being is divided into three divine persons: the father, the son, and the holy spirit. the father is god, the son is god, the holy spirit is god, but there are not three gods, but one god. it goes: the father is almighty, the son is almighty, and the holy spirit is almighty, but there are not three almighties, there's one almighty. this is what the athanasian creed says.

Father the Son and the Holy Spirit the father is God the son is God the holy spirit is God but there are not three Gods but one God it goes the father is Almighty the son is Almighty and the Holy Spirit is

now, to be honest with you, i've heard david wood speak before, and i've noticed that there are three common fallacies that he falls into quite often. one of them is a fallacy called the tu quoque fallacy, which is an appeal to hypocrisy. another one is a straw man, and a third is the red herring. these three fallacies are employed by him quite often, and he talks about islam extensively, as you may know, in a negative way. salam initiative has put up a database of all of the major misconceptions against islam being answered, and this can be seen in the link below. i also want to give credit to one team member who has made a website called "many prophets, one message," which can also be seen in the link below. you can see more information about that.

one of them is a fallacy called the tuqui fallacy which is an appeal to hypocrisy another one is a straw man and a third one is the red herring these three fallacies are employed by him quite often and

now, to cut straight into it: the question is, when we look at the old testament, do we find this idea of the nicene trinity? because the nicene trinity is very specific. after the constantinopolitan creed in 381, the idea that the father, the son, and the holy spirit are three co-equal, co-eternal, independent beings... remember those words: co-equal, co-eternal, independent persons of the one being of god. this is the nicene understanding of the trinity. now, having said that, guys, when you look at the old testament, do we see this? because when we look at the old testament, we find the shema, deuteronomy chapter 6 verse 4: "shema yisrael, adonai eloheinu, adonai echad": hear, o israel, the lord our god, the lord is one. here. when you look at the first commandment, exodus chapter 20 verse 3, you find "you shall have no other gods before me." and in isaiah chapter 43 verse 11, once again: "i am the lord, and besides me there is no savior." now, someone might argue about the word elohim, and this is the weakness of the argument: it's a weak linguistic argument. the word elohim is a majestic plural, they would argue. look, there are 9,000 pronouns in the bible which relate to god's name. let's take, for example, genesis 1:1, "bereshit bara elohim." the word *bara* means "he created." whenever you find a pronoun in the old testament referring to elohim, you will always find it in third-person masculine singular. one more time: third-person masculine singular. you don't find a plural version of that. you don't find a pronoun which is pluralized. so now the question would be: is this a jew who is acquainted with the torah, with the old testament? why would one ask him to realign his belief and his theological doctrines into believing in a triune god, when in fact he's instructed quite explicitly, in the old testament, not to break the commandments? you see, it gets a little more interesting even when you look at

to um one team member who has made a website called many prophets one message which can also be seen in the link below you can see more information about that now to cut straight into it the question now is

this the question is when we look at the Old Testament do we find this idea of the Nan Trinity because the Nan Trinity is very specific after the Constantinople Creed in 381 the idea that the Father the Son and the Holy Spirit are three

co-equal co-eternal independent beings remember those words co-equal co-eternal independent persons of the one being of God this is the ni understanding of the Trinity now having said that guys when you look at the Old Testament do we see this because when we

look at the Old Testament we find the sh chapter 6 verse4 sh hero Israel my Lord our Lord is one Lord here when you look at the First Command chap 20:3 of Exodus you find there's no God beside me I'm your lord

and there's no God beside me you find in Isaiah chter 43:1 once again the discussion of I am your God and besides me there is no savior now someone might argue about the word Elohim and this is the weakness of

the argument it's a weak linguistic argument the word Elohim is a majestic plural they would argue look there are 9,000 pronouns in the Bible which relate to God's name let's take for example Genesis 1:1 B Elohim the word b means he created

whenever you find a pronoun in the Old Testament referring to Elohim you will always find it in third person male singular one more time third person male singular you don't find a plural version of that you don't find a pronoun which

is pluralized so now the question would be is this a Jew who is acquainted with the Torah with the Old Testament why would one ask him to realign his belief his theological doctrines into believing in a Triune God when in fact he's

instructed quite explicitly in fact in the Old Testament not to break the Commandments you see it gets a little bit more interesting even when you look at the New Testament now we know the New Testament has different Au authors

there's 27 books of the New Testament you've got Paul who's written from seven to 13 books and there's dispute as to exactly how much he's written John written many books who is John we don't know who John is by the way we don't

know who John is but yes Paul had a kind of exaltation christology there's no doubt he did believe that Jesus was divine and a good example of that is the uh second Philippians the himm but he believed in a kind of

subordinationism and how do we know that because if you look at line 9 to 11 it's quite explicit that God gives him the name so he didn't have it before Jesus did not have the name before and he makes it

above all names so that he believes in a kind of subordinationism now subordinationism it's a hierarchy within the Trinity remember we said the Nan Trinity is three co-equal co-eternal persons of the the godhead Paul didn't believe this he believed in a hierarchy

John believed in an incarnation christology in the beginning was the word and the Word was with God everyone knows the prologue John chapter one yeah but the question is this who who is John his his gospel was found some 95 ad

this is the time it was found 95 ad that's some 65 years after Jesus's disappearance the irony of all is that you'll find in the Gospel of John for example passages like John 173 where it explicitly mentions that

the father is the only true God explicitly mentions this and this was such a thorn in the side of the church fathers that Augustine a Church father who died 4:30 ad and who wrote who wrote an ex of

Jesus on John do you know what he said he rearranged the words of John 17:3 he changed the word order so as to make Jesus and the Father the true Gods this is how severe it was when you find Mark 12:

29 the Jew came to Jesus asking how to be saved and what did Jesus say did Jesus say and Mark by the way is the most ancient manuscript of all of the gospels most ancient gospels what did Jesus say did he say

you have to believe in the Father the Son and the Holy Spirit as Co equal Co Eternal independent beings he said no he said he referred him to the Shema chapter 6 verse4 of Deuteronomy that's what he referred him

to he didn't tell him believe me is God or believe the holy spirit is God or all these things no so you see really the question is where do people Christians today where do they get their information of the Trinity you'll find

that in Matthew chapter 28: 19 it talks about it's it's called the baptismal formula where the Father the Son and the Holy Spirit is mentioned going the way baptized in the way the Father the Son and the Holy

Spirit and so Christians use this as to prove okay the Trinity is in the Bible now they use this to say look the Trinity is in the Bible now but why don't they look at Luke chapter 9 verse

26 because Luke Chapter 9:26 has a different triadic formula where there's the Father the Son and the Holy Angels yes the Holy Angels not the holy spirit so why don't we infer a Trinity from this this is the

question now we've had these debates before and they've been done before and it's usually okay we'll get a vague verse here an ambiguous verse here and we'll start talking about these things but here's an interesting question now how did the earliest generations of

Christians interpret the New Testament Corpus you have church fathers who are the most learned men of Christendom people like Clement of Rome polycarp origin people like those individuals none of those Church fathers for the first 300 years listen to what

I'm saying none of those Church fathers for the first 300 years of church history inferred a nan Trinity from this can you imagine 300 years 10 minutes even tatulian who died 240 ad tulon who dubbed or coined the term

Trinitas which was later translated into Trinity he was a subordination he believed a hierarchy within the different persons of the godhead the interesting point here is you have someone like you have someone like hopis he was taught by

uranius Massive Church Father Justin Mara massive Church Father he taught origin of Alexandria massive Church father and he writes in his book against the heresies in chapter 22 what does he write he talks about this group called The ebionites Who were around around 70

AD 40 years after The Disappearance of Jesus and they believed that Jesus was not God that he was a prophet and that he was the Messiah there were other groups like The monarchists who believed the non- Divinity of Jesus it wasn't just the

ebionites some monarchists also believed that Jesus was not Divine in the way that trinitarians make it out to be no one spoke about the holy spirit being God co-equal and co-eternal and independent with the father and the son

in the first 300 years that discussion is completely gone so this is quite interesting ladies and gentlemen you know why because you could say from this that where the Islamic position of the non- Divinity of Jesus and the non- Divinity of the Holy

Spirit was represented in the early church the Nan trinitarian position was not say that one more time he wants to hear it okay okay where the Islamic position of the non- Divinity of Jesus Christ was present and the non- Divinity of the Holy Spirit was

present in early Christian Church History the Nan trinitarian understanding of the post Constantinople Creed was not prove me wrong David proved me wrong give me one person for the first 300 years of church history that detailed co-equal co-eternal independent father son Holy

Spirit give me silence me prove me wrong I want to be proven wrong today I want to be proven wrong today silence me tell me one Church Father for the first 300 years of church history that said the Holy Spirit was go equal

coeternal in the pendant with the father and son please please give me the give me the records it's a historical investigation just give me one I will be quiet I will apologize I will apologize in front of everyone I will apologize in front of

everyone yes now it gets a little bit more sticky than that because if you look at a book called the Christian doctrines early Christian doctrines by J and D Kelly Conservative Christian scholar he details exactly how this trinitarian ni

see trinitarian uh thing came about if you look at chapter 5 it's a very interesting readed go and read it it says that you had for example athanasius who who was a very Ardent trinitarian around Nan times and then you have

Hillary of ponz they were advocating the trinitarian position then you had the capian fathers who are GRE Gregory of nanas Gregory of Nissa and Basel the great and they basil the so-call great they are the ones who advanced the

trinitarian position the question is who gave those guys the authority to to interpret texts like this and to overrule all the things that came before why now the last thing I want to talk about is the rationality of the Trinity because this

has to be mentioned now the the Trinity as Thomas Jefferson mentioned is an unintelligible this is what he says an unintelligible idea of platonic mysticisms that three are one it's a contradiction ladies and gentlemen that you have father's

Almighty son Almighty uh holy spirit is Almighty but there are not three almighties but one Almighty that's a contradiction that's why Randolph Ross wrote in his book Common Sense Christianity talking about the hypostatic union because now you have Jesus who's 100% man and 100%

God tell me what is a contradiction if that isn't it's like saying X is 100% a square and 100% a circle Rand Ross he dismissed it he says impossible I can't believe this he's a Christian now as it's mentioned minutes

left in in the introduction in the introduction he he mentioned that David wood is part of the Evangel Christian philosophical Society his boss and Superior someone called Paul copen Paul copen wrote a whole thing talking about because talking about social

trinitarianism and basically he tries to reason in the same way ASI did in his previous debate by the way with shab Ali he says that look the way it works is he said look I'm a being and you're a being

yes I Muhammad hijab I'm a being I'm a human being David W is a human being but how is differentiated from who that's what he said how how is differentiated from who this is the idea that Paul copen and William Lane Craig and these

social trinitarians believe in that how is differentiated from who that's not correct that's false you know why because you can only differentiate from how from who when you have a multiplicity of instantiations in any given genus say that one more time

when you have a multiplicity of instantiations in any given genus in any given class let me tell you what I mean I can't differentiate between me Muhammad hiab and David W unless there's two of us because if there was one human being the how the

who would be the the what say that one more time if there was one human being the who would be the what and the what would be the who there would be no differentiation you have to establish now and this is the third thing I want

to say how you can have a differentiation from who and how without having a multiplicity of instantiations in any given genus which means you have to admit first that there was more than one God for you to differentiate between them as

persons and by the way this is an unbiblical unscriptural thing the differentiation between person and a being it's an unbiblical thing I would like to see if it is in the Bible where it is in the Bible so just to summarize what I've

said because I've only got three minutes left these are the questions I want the answers to today question one why is it that in the Old Testament you do not find the Trinity mentioned or inferred and if it was inferred why

haven't the rabbis the Jewish Scholars for 4,000 years of Hebrew history inferred it that's question one question two how is it the case that if the Trinity is explicit in the New Testament that for 300 years of church history Nan

trinitarianism is M was not inferred by the church fathers question three where give me one person of the first 300 years that says that the Holy Spirit was co-eternal co-equal independent with God one name I will apologize in front of everyone

today yes I will apologize question four how is it the case that how can you rationalize this contradiction of the Trinity when you have a hypostatic union someone who's 100% man and 100% God are you telling me to believe in a squared

Circle today sir is that the is that what you have for me you want me to become a trinitarian square circle and then you have another thing the father is Almighty the son is Almighty and the Holy Spirit is Almighty the Quran

refuses chapter 23: 91 if this was the case they would have tried to outstrip each other deal with the quranic argument you like to attack the Quran you will see today that the quranic argument will suffocate you it

will suffocate [Applause] [Music] [Applause] you number five one minute left in fact I think four questions is a lot for this man if he can do with four I'll be grateful to him I want to say one thing before I before I you might be

thinking why are you being quite firm with this man today you know James White he's a very respectable scholar of Christianity and he's a good man yes he is and he refuted this man because of his mockery this man

makes mockumentaries against Muslims and he refuted him on the basis of a verse in the Bible First Peter chapter 3:15 where it says be respectful and honorable what is the point of causing social discohesion what is the point of

attacking a people making a mockumentary of Muslims drawing the prophet uh putting him in the thumbnail all those things and you know it's going to offend the Muslim Community isn't it high time in the age of isn't it high time in the

age of islamophobia and racism that we stop thisam uh thank you very much uh brother Muhammad ha for that wonderful opening statement and now without further Ado we have Dr David wood with his first 20 minutes of opening

[Applause] statement he jammed this thing in there all right I'll just leave it like that can't overcome that that strength all right well good evening I'd like to thank uh Muhammad hijab for challenging me to this debate and for

crossing the Atlantic Ocean so that uh we can share our thoughts with you uh I'd also like to thank uh Grassroots dawa and the Muslim Students Association and uh all the other groups that were involved in organizing and uh planning and

hosting um my prediction is that tonight will be what uh what young people call Epic see now what's the difference between the Trinity and Ted well one is admittedly so utterly confusing that people wonder how it can possibly be

true the other is the Trinity yes you're going to find out that I think that the doctrine of Ted which OD ly enough we didn't hear much about in Muhammad head job's opening statement uh I'm convinced that the

doctrine of Ted at least as it was taught by Muhammad is vastly more confusing than we hear about today so let's compare them and we'll start with the Trinity why do Christians believe in the doctrine of the Trinity we believe it because we are

forced into this view by the Triune God not because of uh Church councils the church councils were forced into that view by the Triune god um for Christians we have certain amount of data that we work with everyone has some

data right we look around we see the world we see that it's organized in certain ways we know that there's a moral law there are hundreds of millions of people in the world today who believe that they have witnessed Miracles all of

this uh helps us formulate a concept of God uh but Christians also have the scriptures the Old Testament and the New Testament and when we start reading uh the scriptures things get very interesting very quickly um so these are the first two

verses of the Bible long before Christians came along in the beginning God created the heavens in the Earth and the Earth was without form and void and darkness was over the face of the deep and the spirit of God was hovering over

the face of the waters so we've got God but then there's a distinction it says and the spirit of God was hovering over the face of the waters later in the same chapter opening chapter of the Bible verse 26 we read

then God said let us make man in our image after our likeness now two obvious questions one who was he talking to and two why does he say let us plural make man plural I mean I mean make man in our

plural image the plural of majesty right well the Jews didn't use the plural of majesty so why is he using this it's just a mystery so far um we don't know yet but as we continue reading the mystery gets deeper

in Isaiah 9:6 the prophet delivers a prophecy for to us a child is born to us a son is given and the government shall be upon his shoulder and his name Shall be Called wonderful counselor Mighty God father of Eternity

Prince of Peace a child is born a son is given and this child is said to be the Mighty God how is a child going to be the Mighty God in Isaiah 48:1 16 Yahweh is speaking Yahweh is the speaker and he says draw

near to me hear this from the beginning I have not spoken in SE secret from the time it came to be I have been there and now the Lord God has sent me and his Spirit Yahweh is speaking and Yahweh

says that he has been sent by Yahweh along with the spirit of Yahweh how can God be sent by God along with the spirit of God well we just don't know still later in the Old Testament Zechariah 1210 Yahweh is again

speaking and he says I will pour out on the House of David and the inhabitants of Jerusalem a spirit of Grace and supplication they will look on me the one they have pierced and they will mourn for him as One Mourns for an only

child and grieve bitterly for him as one Grieves for a firstborn son Yahweh will pour out a spirit which causes people to repent and they will look on Yahweh whom they have pierced and mourn for him as one Grieves for a lost son how can an

immaterial God be pierced unless he takes on a body so the Old Testament concludes and leaves us with a lot of questions about how to reconcile the claim that there is only one God with some intriguing hints at

plurality then Jesus comes along Jesus tells his followers that he's the final judge of all people even though the Old Testament says that Yahweh is the final judge of all people Jesus says that he's the one who raises

the dead at the resurrection even though the Old Testament says that Yahweh is the one who raises the dead at the resurrection Jesus calls himself the lord of the Sabbath he claims to be the lord of the Prophet David he claims to

be the I am of The Exodus he claims to be greater than God's Temple Jesus tells us that he has an absolutely unique relationship with the father that he can answer prayers that he's present wherever his followers are gathered that

he is with his followers forever and that he has all authority in heaven and on Earth he even makes the startling declaration that all things that the father has are mine but Jesus also prays to the father and he claims to be from the father why

would Jesus make claims that only God can make yet also be drawing attention to God as the father in John 14-16 Jesus says that after he returns to the father he and the father will together send the Holy

Spirit the spirit is sent and yet as we've seen the spirit was with the father at creation Psalm 104:30 says that the spirit creates the universe the spirit is omniscient in 1 Corinthians omnipresent in Psalm 139 and eternal in

Hebrews 9 these are Divine attributes and the the spirit is distinct from the father and the son so what do we do all with all of this well if the father is God and the son is God and the spirit is

God and the father is not the Son and the son is not the spirit and the spirit is not the father and there's only one God the Trinity is the only way out and that's why I said that we were forced into this

view by the Triune God himself now my Muslim friends tell me that this concept of God is absurd even though we got it from God through the missions of the Son and the spirit my Muslim friends tell me that I

should reject this confusing concept of God and believe in something much simpler the Islamic concept of God but I've been going through your sources for a good little while now and I see some serious problems with the doctrine of Ted let me give you a few

examples first Allah prays people ask Jesus Is God why does he pray I have to remind them that we're trinitarians makes perfect sense for the son to speak to the father makes much less sense given the Islamic concept of

God for Allah to pray in Surah 33:56 of the Quran we read surely Allah and his angels pray for the prophet oh you who believe pray for him and salute him with a worthy salutation Allah and his angels pray for the

prophet translators try to hide this by translating it as Allah and his angels send blessings or show Mercy or they Praise Him the problem here is that what it says Allah does is Salah and you know what that means you

know there are perfectly good Arabic ways of saying all of those other things every Arab speaker in the world knows that Salah means prayer and it says that Allah does Salah so who is Allah praying to Second according to the

Quran most of Allah's parts will die the Quran and the Hadith refer to Allah's face his hands two right hands in fact fingers w Shin feet and so on now there's a tendency to interpret scriptural statements about God's bodily

Parts figuratively if we say God's eyes see everything no one thinks we're saying that God has eyeballs but there are most Muslim Scholars themselves are the ones who are arguing that descriptions of Allah's face and hands and feet and so on have

to be interpreted literally not simply anthropomorphically 10 minutes left so Allah has a literal face literal hands and so on and yet we read in the Quran Surah 28 ver88 everything will perish except Allah's face which means if you are if you are

taking these parts literally and the only thing that survives is Allah's face then Allah's face has different attributes from the rest of his Parts uh perishable versus imp perishable third the Quran is an eternal person while Orthodox Islamic theology

insists that the Quran is the uncreated speech of Allah and co-eternal with Allah that would be interesting enough we can't forget that according to Muhammad the Quran is also a person who intercedes for Muslims in sah Muslim 1874 Muhammad says to his companions

recite the Quran for it will come on the day of Resurrection interceding for its companions now how can a book intercede for people Muhammad explains in mus Ahmed andb ma where he says the Quran will meet its companion on the day of

Resurrection when his grave is open for him in the form of a Pale Man the Quran will say to him do you recognize me he will say I do not recognize you it will say I am your companion the Quran who kept you thirsty

on hot days and kept you awake at night so the Quran which is eternal and uncreated appears as a pale man speaks to Muslims and then speaks to Allah on their behalf again this person this pale man is

eternal fourth the Quran isn't just personal it's multi- personal and I hear from Muslims that that's impossible even though the Quran is an eternal person who appears as a Pale Man and intercedes for Muslims there are actually multiple persons within the one

nature of the Quran in Sun Abu daud 1400 Muhammad said there is a Surah in the Quran which consists of 30 verses he referring to Surah al- mul it will intercede for its companion until he is Forgiven so a specific chapter of the

Quran can appear and intercede for those who read it but Muhammad isn't done sah Muslim 1874 he tells his followers to recite Al Bak andah Al Imran because these suras will come as two flocks of birds on the day of

Resurrection pleading on behalf of the Muslims who recited them since Muhammad mentions three different SAS of the Quran which have their own distinct personalities their own knowledge I think we can say that all of the SAS of the Quran have their

own distinct personalities the Quran Muslims read today is thus one in essence as the word of Allah but 114 in person the personal chapters come as flocks of birds pleading on behalf of Muslims I see lots of Muslims smiling

and laughing at this this is what your Prophet said this is your Prophet I think it's funny too but I try to I try to I try to hide that a little bit fifth the multi-personality Quran has a

mother Christians claim that Jesus is the son of God the Quran responds Surah 6: 101 how can Allah have a son when he has no wife notice that the Quran ass assumes that filial terms talk terms referring to offspring have to be interpreted in a

biological sense well if we can only understand these terms biologically we have to ask about the quran's mother Surah 13:39 Allah blots out what he wills and confirms what he wills and with him is the mother of the book

Al the quran's mother is in the presence of Allah I would normally be happy with some metaphorical meaning of something like that but it's the Quran itself which says that we have to interpret claims about Jesus being the Son of God

biologically so if we have to interpret these claims biologically then I have to say if the Quran has a mommy who's the daddy six Allah's Spirit who is eternal and the co-creator of life is a person According to Islamic

theology nothing that is a part of Allah or that originates from within Allah is created but the Quran says that Allah breathes out his spirit this means that like Allah's Eternal speech the spirit comes from within Allah and is thus

uncreated and eternal Allah creates man in Surah 15 by fashioning a body out of clay and then breathing a spirit the Quran says that Allah uh strengthens Jesus by the spirit and that uh that uh he strengthens all

True Believers with the spirit but the spirit is a conscious agent who can appear in the form of a man the spirit appears to Mary and speaks to her in sah 19 and then breathes into her just as Allah breathed

into clay to create Adam so the spirit is an uncreated eternal co-creator who is sent by Allah in the form of a man to perform certain tasks and if he can uh strengthen Believers wherever they are he would

have to be omnipresent some Divine attributes all over the place here seventh Islam deifies Muhammad when Muhammad would spit his companions would rush to collect the spit it and they would rub it on their faces they would struggle to to save his

used ablution water if a hair fell off his head they would rush to grab it after the battle of uhud Muhammad's companions man named Malik collected the blood that ran from Muhammad's wound and drank it Muhammad said the fire will never touch

you this isn't how you treat someone you regard as a mere human being today however no one can drink Muhammad's blood or rub his saliva on their faces but Muslims still address him directly in their prayers most of the time when Muslims

are praying they're reciting words that are directed towards Allah but there's a part of their daily prayers where they say now that does not mean God please bless Muhammad that is peace be upon you Muhammad they're speaking they're laughing and

they're speaking directly to Muhammad in their daily prayers they're talking directly to Muhammad in their daily prayer this assumes that he can hear them and so he hears them all over the world in which case he must be omnipresent interesting for a mere

human being eighth Islam deifies Jesus without even realizing it Allah is uncreated and eternal but as we've seen there are two uncreated and eternal persons with Allah his word his eternal speech and the spirit that he breathes out and yet in Surah 4: 171

even when the Quran is asserting that he's only a prophet it refers to Jesus as Allah's word and as a spirit from Allah as if this weren't enough Jesus goes on to create life in exactly the same way Allah creates life Allah

fashion a man out of clay and then breathes his spirit Spirit into it what does Jesus do he fashion a clay bird and then breathes his Spirit into it and this gives life Jesus is co-creator no wonder his followers

started worshiping him ninth Islamic worship draws extensively from the polytheism of 7th Century Arabia during the time of Muhammad the polytheus of Arabia would perform taah walking circles around the cabba did they do that because they were following

Abraham no they believed in seven planetary deities who circled the Earth and so they walked seven circles around the cabba in order to honor these seven planetary deities Muslims do the same today but not realizing where the practice came

from there's also the black stone this was one of the Pagan Idols it became part of Islam you kiss it and it can be an experation for your sins but according to Muhammad the black stone itself is conscious one minute left we

read in tery and IB ma the messenger of Allah said concerning the stone by Allah Allah will bring it forth on the day of resurrection and it will have two eyes with which it will see and a tongue with

which it will speak and it will testify in favor of those who touched it in sincerity so this isn't a random lifeless Idol this is a living breathing Idol so in the Quran we've got Allah swearing by literally uh everything we'll be talking

about that in a little in a few moments um given that we find these things in the Muslim sources I'm truly interested in how we can sit here and poke fun at the doctrine of the Trinity now the real

basis I find uh for reconciling these texts with the doctrine of Ted is that Muslim Scholars don't let you know this stuff which is why you think it's funny when you're hearing it time is up Dr Wood uh now we're going to start our

second part which is the the 12-minute rebuttal and going first is Mr Muhammad hijab you can go ahead I think that it would have said some career-ending embarrassing statements today I mean to be honest with you after 20 years of researching Islam you

come with this okay let's deal with one one by one spirit of God hovered over the uh hovered over after the God created the heavens and the Earth okay no problem it's if it's that's meant to be God no

problem let's go to zechariah's in Old Testament chapter 6:5 there are four Spirits so are there seven gods now because the word in in Hebrew is and you wouldn't know about Hebrew because look I I think not only do you not know Arabic

but you don't know Hebrew and you're making a big mistake by trying to interpret the the biblical text in this way there's two words for Spirits in Hebrew language which is the same as the Arabic and the word is here in in

Zechariah Chapter 6 verse5 talking about four Spirits so tell that's why if that is a spirit and it's God then how comes there's only three Gods three Persons Of God and uh and the isn't seven for example he

says that for that Jesus this is called the emology fallacy that you know he's been referred to as Emanuel Etc God Is With Us Elijah is also the word Elijah in in the Hebrew language means God is with us so if if that makes Jesus God

then Elijah is also a God we move on what else did he say I am statement if you look at the new international version of the Bible uh the I am is actually not translated as I am but I will be and there's a

whole discussion on that and to be honest with you frankly I don't even take the Gospel of John to be completely authoritative and neither do the majority of biblical Scholars anyways 95 ad it's a long way he says Allah

says uh that Allah and he's here saying that he prays to the prophet there's a difference between and you in the Arabic language I knew this was going to happen I knew this was going to happen I knew I was going to have to

give you a free Arabic lesson here today I knew it and that's why the translators put for not to the prophet you don't know what the words in Arabic mean don't hear speak Salah come on please don't embarrass yourself Allah

has Parts he says Muslim Scholars say we should take this literally which Muslim Scholars which Muslim Scholars uh he says in chapter 28 of the Quran means everything is destroyed except for his face and this means that Allah all his

body parts will be destroyed he has body parts and these things first of all the word in Arabic doesn't necessarily mean all wrote a book and he said and he shows with examples that the word Co doesn't mean

all I'll give you an example in chapter 46 of the Quran that the wind destroyed everything the same words here inas everything was destroyed except for their houses if it meant every single thing it wouldn't have been their houses

would not be there so the word K doesn't mean that in Arabic language once again it's a problem with language he says that this is exactly his words he said the Quran is eternal person tell me one scholar in the

history of Islam who said that this is a lie he says the Quran is you have to it will come as a shaf on the day of judgment so if this is the question I'll put it better for you I'll help you yeah if the

Quran is an attribute of God how can it intercede for you this is what he's saying right it's a good question this is a good question but it's not a proper understanding of the Hadith this is the only good question you had I'll give it

to you this is the only good question you had the the Hadith says so it's not that the Quran I.E the attribute of Allah that will intercede for you on the day of judgment but it is your of the Quran and the that you get

of the Quran which means the reward you get from the recitation of the Quran not the Quran as an attribute of Allah yeah he says therefore there's 114 persons of the Quran two coqu fallacy two cqu fallacy I told you he would do

it and appeal to hypocrisy so here are you admitting that having more than one person of a being of God is wrong because you should leave trinitarianism then but obviously as we know there's no one in the history of Islam that

referred to the Sur of the Quran as persons this is wrong you don't know about Islam here you're being educated he said he didn't know the Arabic but I'm going to give him the the Arabic in chapter 6 verse 108 of the Quran where

Allah says that Allah dides not have a mate so does this mean what does this mean that biological had a discussion about biological really and truly how can you have a begotten son there's only three options number one biology number

two adoption and number three metaphor and if you say it's not biology and it's not adoption it must be a metaphor so Jesus is not a son of God okay and then he says that the prophet they they played you know they Tred to

get his hair and the spit and these things okay well if you think spitting on someone makes you a god well that's what it implies and I wonder why you look at every other verse of the Bible as implying that Jesus was God because

for you a split that's that's making me a God now I mean don't embarrass yourself in front of me he said this means that he's interceding because it's a narrative voice we say this in the every time it's

a narrative voice however let's not say it's a narrative voice let's give it to him he says this must mean that the prophet Muhammad is om present yes he's omnipresent let's let's have fun with him today there is a Hadith in bukari

which says that whenever one person does Salah on the nebi which means blessings and praise on the prophet blessings on the prophet the angel will carry that and give it to him it doesn't mean that he's hearing it everywhere the angel is

moving it around this is from the will of Allah and if you didn't know that now you do he says that that being referred to as the word of Allah must mean that he is divine so although the Quran says clearly that

he's not Divine no it makes a mistake he is divine well you're all over the place you're fumbling all over the place it's embarrassing is is defined in chapter 3:58 of the Quran where Allah subhana says five minutes left he said to him be

and he was the word is defined in the Quran as be so Allah says be and things are just like he said be with Adam he said be with Jesus and he was he says that there are seven uh

planetary things in Arabia and these things I mean how can you make a a judgment first of all I haven't got a reference for that I didn't see a ref he didn't say yes I give you a reference

here it says bukari whatever even if he's got a reference how do you know that the practice originated from that and not from Abraham after all Abraham even in the Old Testament yes he existed pre-existed before Jesus even though you have you know the

physical Jesus and he was there in the desert and you have in the Book of Psalms mention of pilgrimage so if this is the case then I wonder why uh this is mentioned now this is I think this is

all that he kind of mentioned I want to give you one principle ladies and gentlemen that will destroy everything he said the Quran says chapter 42 vers 11 that there's nothing like him you cannot do or of Allah anything that we see in the

Quran talking about the hand talking about the face all of these things you can rest assured because of this verse and the other verse that this means yes this means it cannot be compared to anything you imagine in the Quran anyways I mean

every Muslim know this but the idea is is this implicit admission here that I've lost this is this is what we come up with I've lost yes we know trinitarianism is so confusing but I'm going to show you how much you know is

confusing as well I have admitted defeat therefore I'm going down I'm going down I'm going to try and take you down with me that's that's really what you're trying to say to me David wood I know by the look of your face here you would

probably agree with me let's be honest look at his face everyone ladies and gentlemen take a look at his face yes anyways I've got a few minutes left let me recite some Quran because I've done with this guy Allah subhana wa ta'ala

[Applause] he says in chapter number 19 verse number 31 about Jesus this is what we believe about Jesus for sub the ISA said Jesus according this is guys Christians this is what Allah says in the Quran listen to it tell me if this

is not a better model for you be honest this is Jesus he says I am the slave of Allah of God he gave me the book and he made me a prophet just like in chapter 8 of Mark verse one minute left yes 48

people thought Jesus was a prophet in in the Old Testament in the New Testament time in the time of Jesus when he was alive and he made me blessed wherever I am this is what we believe of Jesus he

made me blessed wherever I am you know and he told me to pray and to give charity so long as I am alive you know this is what we believe about Jesus Christ what I was good with my

mother I wasn't an arrogant person and peace be upon me the day I was born and the day I die and the day I will come back to life that is Jesus Son of Mary the one who you different

[Applause] about uh before we start on uh Dr David Wood's uh ble i' just like to remind uh uh our fellow audience uh verbal cheering is please please refrain from verbal cheering clapping is sufficient enough and we just like to remind both

speakers to stay on topic and be respectful towards the other speaker thank you and Dr David wood you have the [Applause] floor thank you again Muhammad uh in my my opening statement I laid out a basic case for the doctrine of the Trinity and

I claimed that the Islamic concept of God is more confusing than what we're normally told um I pointed out that Allah praise and he said well there's a difference in the meaning of the verb here well the Quran says repeatedly that

Allah prays and guess what he prays in the Hadith as well and what's interesting is there are even Muslim translators who are acknowledging this and translating these passages as Allah prays so aabi I've got a ton of Islamic books translated by her

respected around the world from riyadah the messenger of Allah said Allah and his angels and the people of the heavens and the Earth even the ants in their rocks and the fish pray for blessings on those who teach people good so Allah

prays who is he praying to Al Al by translated Again by a Muslim translator Hadith number 216 the Israelites said to Musa does your lord pray Musa said fear Allah oh sons of Israel Allah said oh Musa what did your

people say m said oh my Lord you already know they said does your lord pray Allah said tell them my prayer for my servants is that my Mercy should precede my anger if it were not so I would have destroyed

them Allah prays that his Mercy will triumph over his wrath now if Allah is praying what's he's praying for self-control here apparently right he wants to punish them but he prays for self-control this is not me this is

these are your hadiths and your translators translating these passages as Allah praying why because that's what Salah means if I'm wrong give me give me the linguistic basis for for saying otherwise second I said that Allah has various parts but only his face is

imperishable which means that different parts of LA have different attributes um that's just what it says it says everything will perish except his face so if you're interpreting the parts as literal parts we just got a problem here

right it gives the qualification it's saying everything will perish and I understand it can say you know everything this or everything that it's saying that everything perishes except his face it's drawing the only the only exception there which would mean that

certain parts are Parts with different attributes unless Allah is just not clear in his Quran which he claims to be clear over and over again um third I said that the Quran is an eternal person he's Allah's Eternal Word but he

also takes the form of a pale man now um it's kind of hard to hear because uh over there but I think um Muhammad replied that it's your own recitation that appears to you now that's interesting enough uh if your own

recitation of the Quran is uh is appearing as a pale man um but uh I don't think that's what it means because of the next point which is that individual chapters of the Quran appear as flocks of birds to intercede

for you so if individual chapters of the Quran are appearing and pleading for you then why wouldn't the entire Quran as a whole also be appearing to you so it seems that it's not just talking about your own uh good recitation or

something like that but uh the book itself he says I am the Quran um now by the way this is uh very interesting um and I I think it might be a source of problem here um Muhammad says well who who refers to

these Quran chapters as persons and I think there's a little difficulty here this might be why he's uh having trouble understanding the doctrine of the Trinity uh if he's if he's misunderstanding this word uh person here and and and how it's applied

um if a flock of birds can talk and has knowledge and this flock of birds knows what you been doing they know that you've been reciting the Quran they intercede for you they plead to Allah on your behalf well those are qualities of of

what we call a person in philosophy right it's communicating like that it has it has certain kinds of knowledge it it appeals to people in certain way this is what we mean by the term uh person and by the way because we're talking

about origins of of Islamic practices if you um go to the early Islamic history um there were goddesses there were many people in Arabia who believed in um in a in a kind of hierarchy right where they believed in Allah and they

believed that Allah was the main deity but they believed in lower deities and these were intercessors now aot Aloo and manat were three goddesses and they were called the exalted cranes they were the birds that would carry your prayers to

Allah or they would fly up to Allah and intercede for you why is this interesting well the goddesses are described in terms of birds who go and intercede for you but Muhammad after introducing Ted says that it's actually

chapters of the Quran that do that for you now they appear as flocks of birds to go up to Allah and intercede for you now if I asked any Muslim in here hey if someone believes that there's God

and then there are these other beings who uh intercede and fly up to him and Inter and intercede for you and plead for you is that polytheism or monotheism every Muslim would say that's polytheism okay well if there are these

flocks of birds around and they are the Eternal speech of Allah and they fly up and intercede for you and they plead on your behalf what is that it's pure monotheism that is very interesting he says no one refers to uh

the Quran as a person or or chapter the Quran as as as a person again if you understand how we use the term U that should end the confusion um as for the Quran having a mother alab now he pointed out that well if

you're if you're saying it's not literally biological then you must be saying it's it's merely metaphorical and no not in the Jewish or Christian scriptures son of is used in a variet of ways and so the appropriate response the

appropriate response to Christian theology would be explain to explain to us what Jesus sunship means and that would be explained in terms of the doctrine of the Trinity but no Christian has ever meant that Jesus is the biological son

of the father so if Allah is telling Muslims in the Quran and I bring this up because I hear this from Muslims almost every day well how can you believe that God had sex with well never heard of a Christian

believing that where are you getting that idea from getting it from the Quran from Allah so the point here is if Allah knows what the Christian doctrine is why doesn't Allah say what the Christian doctrine is and then explain why it's

wrong he just never does Allah tries to refute the Trinity doesn't know what the doct of the Trinity is he thinks it's it's Allah Jesus and Mary who are three separate beings who just work together that's not the doctrine of the Trinity

what's he responding to likewise with the sunship of Jesus he gets it all wrong so you've got a problem here either your God doesn't know what we believe in which case he lacks knowledge or he does know what we believe and he's

deliberately making fun of it or misrepresenting it if he's deliberately Mis misrepresenting it then that would be an ethical problem um six I said that Allah's spirit is an eternal person who takes the form of a man to carry out tasks um

again having trouble hearing down there if there was a response to that please remind me seventh I said that Islam deifies Muhammad uh said well you know Muhammad spitting and stuff doesn't what's that got to do with him being God that's not

that's not the point the point was Muhammad's just a man the Muhammad's just a man Muhammad's just a man and then you see how his followers acted towards him and it's clear he was much more than a man to him

when a normal human being is walking down the street and spits you don't say Oho I have to rub this all over my body Muhammad's companions did if a hair falls off a normal human being's head you don't say oh I need to grab this I

need to save this if someone is bleeding a normal human being is bleeding you don't say hey let me get that running blood and drink it this was acceptable behavior from Muhammad and his followers and how if you saw anyone

doing this if I said hey there's this place somewhere in South America or something and they've got this guy down there and whenever he spits they rub it on their faces whenever he washes himself they collect the water so they

can rub it on themselves whenever he bleeds he gets cut they drink it you'd say ah look at this idolatry look at this paganism but that's exactly how Muhammad expected his followers to act and for some reason whenever it's in

Islam it's still just pure monotheism I said that Islam accidentally deifies Jesus calls Jesus Allah's word and a spirit from Allah now keep in mind those are the two Eternal co-creating co-eternal beings with Allah his word and his Spirit now this is

interesting Muhammad said Muhammad hijab said that the Quran calls Jesus the word because Allah said be and he was so Allah said be and he was and this makes him Allah's word now that's very interesting because uh according to

chapter 16: 40 of the Quran that's how Allah creates everything that's how Allah creates me so Allah created me by saying be and according to Muhammad hijab that's how you can identify someone as the word of Allah what's that make

me I am the word of Allah according to Muhammad hijab so if you you reject anything I say one minute left if you reject anything I say for the rest of the evening you're guilty of rebelling against Allah's

word as far as Islam drawing its uh worship from um his basic practices from the pagans of Mecca there's really no dis you can read in the Muslim sources that the pagans are are walking these circles and kissing the black stone and

so on that you can also read that they believed in these seven planetary deities that are circling the earth so you can read all about their worship what you have to believe if you want to reconcile this with Islam is you have to

say Abraham set that up walking the seven circles and then the pagans misinterpreted it at some point and they started walking seven circles around the cabba for a completely different reason um so you'd have to believe that and

then as far as the black stone well it was a black stone and then it became part of their Pagan worship and then got brought back but keep in mind this is 5 Seconds a rock that is going to appear

with eyes and a mouth and you kiss it thank you very much Dr David wood now we're going to enter our second phase of rebuttal which each speaker will have eight minutes each uh you can go ahead doc Mr Muhammad hij he

mentioned again this issue of and I've told you the difference I don't know why I kept repeating it he says person I'm going to try and do this in three minutes yeah he says person uh this this shows you that the

SW uper he thinks he says he thinks this means that the chapters of the Quran are persons I want I've always wanted to do this yeah to take a word from Dwayne the The Rock Johnson it doesn't matter what

you think it doesn't matter what you think I mean flock of birds and the the man who comes the Pale Man yes this is in good deeds and this proves my point once again that the of the Quran is what is

represented the you get the rewards for doing the good and it comes that's what the Hadith is talking about the man comes in a in a good form this is theith Inari he says come as Birds intercession means

polytheism well chapter 2 verse 255 the Quran who will intercede with God except with his permission it's one part of a verse which refutes all of your claims about intercession in fact uh he says means mother it doesn't only mean mother don't

tell me about Arabic language you ask me about Arabic language in this in this forum you ask me you don't tell me you ask Muhammad what does the word mean you don't tell me means this no I tell you

it means mother yes it doesn't only mean mother we say the the the the main books it means something foundational the Quran says the main cities come on man don't waste my time with this he says he said he actually asked me for

something linguistic he said what's the linguistic basis that the word Salah what do what does it come from etymologically the word Salah comes from the word means connection so it can be any connection it doesn't necessarily always have to be prayer and the word actually

Salah means Dua yes this is the root word but it comes from the eological root word which means connection it could mean any connection for example connecting with your family members you don't know these things he says the

Quran gets the Trinity wrong and he's talking about chapter 5 verse 116 of the Quran where it talks about did you tell your mother that you can take two of us as as Lords beside God it's not talking

about the trinity in this verse where does it say this is the Trinity and then describe it the only the verses that describe the Trinity for example chapter 4: 171 of the Quran and other places of the Quran like chapter 5 where the

brother was reading it never tells you what the Trinity is which is why for example many scholars like many scholars actually did say that the Trinity was the father Son and the Holy Spirit but some Scholars differed with them in ex Jesus it doesn't matter

the word three in Arabic means all of the kinds of trinities that all of the Christians have ever believed in in all of history so the word in Arabic is all comprehend ensive it doesn't say that the word Trinity is Merry it doesn't say

that in the Quran you have lied against the Quran and then he says here the the of Allah subhana wa tala this you have to understand basic basic rules of grammar of Arabic means the camel of Allah is that

another person I will help you I will help you it mean means actually I'm not going to go into it to be honest with you is go to a basic Arabic you know textbook what is m is the first thing the Arab students

learn let's not waste my time with this please you've come here 20 years of research and this is what you present don't waste my time it says here Islam accidentally deifies Jesus because he is why does the Quran call him the K

because it's stressing the fact that Allah said be and he was to make it an emphasis a point of emphasis for Christians who believe otherwise and then the pagans uh Pagan sources he didn't give any now realize ladies and gentlemen this man put

Christianity under the bus he threw Christianity under the bus today I asked him four questions none of those questions were answered none of those questions were answered I asked minutes where is the trinity in 300 years if it is a basic

natural inference of the Old Testament how could you have 4,000 years of Hebrew history no one has inferred it if it's a natural reading of the New Testament how comes you have 300 years 300 years and no Church Father believed in Nan

trinitarianism the way that you believe today why are you back projecting an acronis superimposing this idea that was Advanced and crystallized by the capedan fathers in 381 and putting it and forcing it you're the one forcing it forcing it on the New Testament more

egregiously you're forcing it in the Old Testament you have put you have done a shameful service today for the for the Christians you have not defended Christianity Today you should have brought James White with you or someone like that seriously you should have

brought someone who could have helped you you were saying me and Adnan and Ali versus you man you should have brought someone with you seriously what's going on here 20 years of attacking Islam 20 years of attacking Islam 99% of your

content is anti-islam and all of those things you brought today were dismissed in 4 minutes you couldn't handle the questioning I gave you four I gave you four questions I did the service sir of answering all of your questions you didn't even answer

one of mine how dare you how dare you what is this seriously and the reason why once again I apologize to all the other Christians here why this man is made mockumentaries against Islam he's attacked Muslims aggravated Muslims

we know his story he's not any regular Christian ladies and gentlemen the Quran says the Christians are not all the same if it was James White I would have shown him the utmost respect if it was William Lane Craig I would have showed him the

utmost respect if it was any of those guys I would have showed them the utmost respect but this man no no no no no no read the Bible I will teach you the Bible today Mr please stay on topic

okay no problem I've got two 1 minute and a half and I've I'm pretty much done I can't believe it should I give it as a charity to him I'll give it as a charity to you have a minute and a half charity from a

Muslim to you go ahead starting our second reut 8 minutes Dr David wood you may may start uh that's N9 and a half he said I I got it as as Charity thank you thank you i' take i'

take all the charity all right well I guess we'll start off with the four questions I always I knew we had more rebuttal time and I didn't think they were too terribly difficult to uh to answer so let's go through

them question number one why isn't the Trinity mentioned in the Old Testament well I I pointed out multiple pass multiple passages where you find a plurality and the question is why you have this plurality if it's just this pure monotheism that

Muslims believe in I quoted Isaiah 48:16 where Yahweh is speaking and Yahweh says that he has been sent by Yahweh along with the spirit of Yahweh how do you make sense of that now to be clear that is not that is not a

clear statement of the doctrine of the Trinity but to say that these passages refute the doctrine of the Trinity that the Old Testament refutes the doctrine of the Trinity wait a minute we'll keep this time even the go-to verse right you have

lots of verses that sound like plurality you have to interpret those away if you don't want to believe that the Old Testament is actually calling for saying that God is plural in some sense but even the go-to passage the

shama which he said it in in the Old Testament and the New Testament that's the goto verse that's the go-to verse that proves this pure monotheism you know what the the shama actually says sh Isel Yahweh elohenu Yahweh now we insert extra words in

there to make that a complete sentence what that actually says here o Israel Yahweh it's the name of God elohenu means our God Yahweh means our that's God one that's what it says here oh Israel Yahweh elohenu Yahweh one that's

what it says names God three times and then says one now this is a Jewish commentary on the Torah wanted to quote this because there's a commentary on the shama itself they're commenting and they say here oh Israel Yahweh elohenu Yahweh is

one these three Are One how can the three names be one only through the perception of faith faith in the vision of the Holy Spirit and the beholding of the Hidden eyes alone now that be by the way these are

unitarians here but the fact that they're discussing a kind of Tri unity in the goto passage for Muslims around the world to say this refutes the doctrine of the Trinity and they're describing it in trinitarian terms again not the

Christian Trinity but Tri Unity of the names there if that's your best you're going to need something better so you find plurality throughout the Old Testament in various passages why doesn't the why doesn't God specifically say trinity well I think it's very

similar to um what you find when Moses comes along and God says to him uh Abraham Isaac and Jacob knew me but they did not know me as Yahweh now this isn't just talking about the name is talking

about God's character so think about this God is bringing a covenant God is bringing a covenant to the children of Israel with Moses and then he says I'm revealing more about myself than I did to Abraham Isaac and Jacob now think about this

according to Muhammad we'd have to say ah well why didn't they know this earlier stuff then why didn't they have the same knowledge well Christians and Muslims believe in progressive revelation God can give more now think about what God did there he's giving a

covenant a New Covenant back then we call it the old Covenant now but back then it was a New Covenant he's giving a New Covenant and he says giving you a new covenant and I'm going to reveal more

about myself to you so according to the Old Testament what does God do when he brings a New Covenant well the pattern is he gives them a deeper understanding of who he is so why doesn't the Trinity just

clearly Define I mean why why doesn't the Old Testament clearly Define the doctrine of the Trinity well in the Old Testament as well Jeremiah 31 a New Covenant is coming it's prophesied in the future the big one is coming the big

Covenant is coming well don't you think God's got some more information in store for the people of the New Covenant when this New Covenant comes I do and who brings the New Covenant well Jesus it's Jesus entering the world and then the holy

spirit being poured out where we find out about the inner life of God and this is correlated with God's Plan of Salvation four minutes left so why isn't it clearly mentioned well that that's how God works progressive revelation he does this

throughout the Bible he keeps giving them more and more information especially when he's giving a New Covenant Muhammad hij says why didn't the church fathers from the second third century and so on give fourth Century descriptions of the doctrine of the

Trinity now think about this in the first century the books of the Bible are passed out and they're they're sort of individual books there there there's not a collection yet so in the first century you still got books circulating as individual

books by the second century they start getting collected but think about who Christians are they're they're you got Farmers you've got fishermen and so on you don't have this early on this professional class of theologians that builds up over

time and for the first three centuries Christians are and Christianity is an illegal religion and persecuted they can't get together for big conferences to do stuff and to um and and to have discussions like this the first time

they're able to get together and have these big these big councils is in the 4th century and that's what they do and it gets ironed out very quickly so the problem as far as what's revealed to the Christians they have Revelations about

the father about the son about the spirit these things are given to them one they need the tools of exegesis for saying this is what the Holy Spirit did this is what Jesus did how do we understand the Eternal nature of God

based on this well that's kind of difficult work to do ladies and gentlemen it's kind of difficult work to do so that sort of thing takes a while and they don't have the terminology how are you describing God being one in

essence or nature uh and three in person they don't have the they don't even know what language to apply to the Eternal God they eventually settle on some but that takes time but throughout this father is God holy spirit is God son is God this is

revealed in scripture if every Church Father in the history of the world had gotten it wrong that wouldn't change what the Bible teaches and and by the way just imagine if if we're going to be discussing uh the nature of the Quran or

something like this and I said oh you know we got sunnis and Shia and and uh these earlier heretical groups and everyone's getting stuff wrong and so on well Islam should be defined by the the Islamic sources and the teachings that

you could draw from them just like Christianity should be defined by Christian sources question three was who says that the holy spirit is co-equal and co-eternal which part of he's God don't you understand right if the holy spirit is

is God they say a where do you say co-equal and co-eternal with the father like later Creeds say where does it say where did they say that earlier one minute left he's God if I say the Holy Spirit has the attributes

of God you can ask well what about all these later distinctions that became very important to them later on when they're dealing with various kinds of heresies they come up with the terms to respond to the heresy but all of these

are based on going back to the scriptures and seeing what lines up with them and finally how can we reconcile the contradiction of the Trinity um I don't know what you mean by contradiction uh contradiction is saying that a statement is both true and false

at the same time in the same sense um no Christian says that God is one and three in the same sense never met a Christian who said that we say that God is one in essence or being or nature and three in

person and if you say that's false well I mean think even Islam believes that God is one in one way more than one in another way God is one on the level of being more than one on the level of

attribute his Mercy triumphs over his wrath you don't say that's another God why because that's the level of attribute we have the level of person Dr W your time is up does he have that's it CR uh Mr haab y if you want to stay

seated for the crossfire that's oh is it not conclusions no conclusions we're actually about to do the crossfire questions for us uh so you can go ahead ask the first question to Dr David wood and he will have two minutes to

respond well let's let's start with the questions you did not answer which Church Father for the first 300 years explicitly mentioned that the holy spirit is co-equal co-eternal with God go ahead Dr Wood again from the Bible on the holy spirit is God now

here's what I don't understand if you take someone like terellian or something like this and say who calls the Holy Spirit God and the question then becomes well when did he say he's co-equal or co-eternal what do you think God what do

you think these guys mean when they say the holy spirit is God what do you think the Bible means the Bible calls him Eternal what do you mean co-eternal if he's Eternal then he's obviously co-eternal with the father so I'm not under it's like it's

like saying if I tell you I am the current president of the United States and you say aha but where where are you claiming to be Donald Trump well if I claimed to be the current president of of the United States I would be claiming

to be Donald Trump right I don't have to say that other thing right so if you say so and so is God or so and so has the attributes of God it just doesn't make it just doesn't make sense to say well where is he

co-equal with the father or Co co- this these are one minute these are terms these are terms this is language that was used in later councils to clarify right to clarify I mean I can turn right around and say

where does the Quran say that the Quran is eternal well that's a conclusion you draw right that's a conclusion you draw from various things that the Quran says it doesn't say that right you have to interpret it that way I don't understand

why you can say okay well the Bible says that the father is God the holy spirit is God the son is God and therefore as far as the essence the as far as their Essence they're all God they're all

Yahweh and therefore in that sense they are co-equal so what you have is later Church fathers saying okay if they all share the same Essence then in that sense they're co-equal why would they why would you expect someone in the

first century to use a word that came about to clarify something in the 4th Century I don't know thank you very much Dr Wood you may ask your first questions wordss Mr haab uh yes uh going back to Allah

praying because I'm not just trying to mess with you guys here I'm really I'm really confused right um because as I pointed out you have Muslim translators translating passages in the Hadith saying that Allah and his creation praise and you look at the

Quran and it's using similar word but this is different this is the Quran and you know it's multiple passages and then Muslim translators are translating it as praise and then you have I think it's ter which which use and it it won't

translate as anything it just says Allah performs his Salat right they won't say what it means because if you say it means praise then you're you're going to be confused and if you translate it to something else well it you're then

you're going to have to nail down a definition of the word so what should this word mean what should this in the in the Quran and the Hadith how should this be translated and why are even Muslim translators now translating it as praise

if there's this clear other meaning I have two minutes I don't think I need two minutes to be honest with you I think I've dealt with that extensively um the word Salah is different and there these are basically these are certain

prepositional words that come after the verb and depending on which of those words come it differentiates the meaning completely so because it says and you will never find anyone in the Quran an where it says Lee for example after the

word Salah in respective to the prophet Muhammad wasallam linguists and Muslims uh clearly conclude that um it means blessings Etc now obviously just looking at the Quran on a cursory level if you read it in English the translations of

the meanings you'll find that there are certain verses of the Quran if you are just if you respect to intellect you will see that it does not tell you to pray to Prophet Muhammad does not because it tells you only the Quran says

only God is worthy of worship you know these things so one minute left I appreciate that you've come a bit more humble this time and you said I'm confused I hope I hope you have understood this now and if you don't I

think you should blame your intellect and your lack of knowledge that's that's that's the state it should be right now but just to just to kind of touch upon what you said because I do have a bit of

time about toan he was a subordination tulan was a subordination he died 240 I don't actually think you read his works I I don't believe you've read his works his primary source materials all stipulate he does use the language of

the fourth Century men but he does not use it in the context of the Holy Spirit H and so therefore I conclude that tulan was and that's why he's deemed as a heretic by the Catholics he's and and by

the Protestants he's deemed and other people are deemed as Heretics so it's a back projection based on later developments of the church and this is something you could not deal with basically in this uh 10 seconds in in in

this particular in this particular debate thank you very much Mr hijab you may go forward with your second question all right so you you spoke about the attributes of um you spoke about the attributes of the Holy Spirit Etc I'm

I'm just going to give you one example I mean it's a very easy question in Mark chapter 13 verse 32 it says only the father knows when the hour is now I understand why the sun might not know

because it's The Human Side you see it's The Human Side so you know the god side might know but the human but what about the Holy Spirit why does the Holy Spirit not know when the hour is you have two minutes Dr

Wood well the holy spirit is included uh we have elsewhere that the Holy Spirit searches the mind of God knows everything that God knows um if you look at what Jesus is doing there when he says um when he says no one he's

referring to the level of human beings by the way if you if you guys like that verse that's uh if you believe Jesus said that then Islam is false because notice you've got Father and Son there according to the Quran Allah is a father

to No One the highest relationship you can have with Allah is a slave to master relationship so um if you believe that then Islam is false um but if you look what he says there already he sets up a

hierarchy says the day of their time he says no one knows referring to the level of men and then he says not even the angels so that's the entire created order no man knows not even the angels not even the son only the father

so even in this verse you're quoting he's putting himself one minute left he's putting himself above all of creation he's putting himself above all of creation and so the question is why wouldn't why would Jesus say that he

doesn't know the hour well there's there's a long explanation um which I'm not even sure is correct uh but usually we would we would explain this in terms of giv the easier one here hey you're interfering with my time here the

straightforward one um is Christians also believe in the kosis when Jesus Takes on human nature you find this in John 1 uh and uh what Muhammad mentioned earlier um the the uh him to Christ in Philippians where it says he was in the

form of God but he made himself nothing taking on the nature of a servant we believe he actually took on the nature of a servant and limited himself in that way if you believe it's a problem by the

way I mean think about it the Quran doesn't contain verses that the Eternal Quran has and yet you still believe you have the Quran even though certain things have been withheld from you so thank you very much Dr

[Applause] Wood reac uh you can start your second question right now uh yeah um I'm confused by this uh claim which you made earlier that that Jews um Jews have regarded the doctrine of the Trinity as polytheism and Jews never saw any plurality uh in

the Old Testament that's simply false um before the end of the 2 Century ad it was very widespread to see a plurality within the one God um this is from Benjamin summer uh from the Jewish Theological Seminary in New York who

writes no Jew sensitive to to judaism's own classical sources can fault the theological model Christianity employs when it avows belief in a God who has an Earthly body as well as a Holy Spirit and Heavenly manifestation for that

model we have seen is a perfectly Jewish one a religion whose scripture contains the fluidity Traditions whose teachings emphasize the multiplicity of the sheina and whose thinkers speak of the sephar does not differ in its theological essentials from a religion question or

is sorry is this a question or what is it's a question so if Jewish Scholars who are acknowledging that uh the turn to uh Unitarianism only arose in the 2 Century as a reaction to Christianity to set themselves against the Christians

more um how can you say that Jews never saw this when it's widely understood that they did okay you have two minutes thank you for that question he talked about in the last part of his speech the shama and how it

could mean three Gods now he's speaking about he spoke about 3 minutes about Prophet Muhammad spitting I believe believe you me I I I think that genuinely speaking if you s if you gave your exical interpretation to a rabbi I

think he would spit at you um because I don't think anybody of the Jewish in in 4,000 years of Hebrew history has ever uh believed in in what you say that they believed give me one primary source of

any Jew that believed in the Trinity one don't give me Benjamin Summers he's he's a second secondary source material you're meant to come here with academic uh information at hand I've only I've only mostly quoted you primary source

materials you're an academic you understand how it works in Academia give me a primary source material of a Jew who believed three co-equal co-eternal independent beings you will never or persons of a of one God you will never

find this one minute left okay in that minute since since since to be honest with you I mean it was pretty easy to answer his his question actually I'll give it to him man I don't need to I'll give it to him

I'll give it to [Applause] him is it my turn to ask yeah go ahead okay I'll give you a primary source material Justin Mar was a um was a church father as you know who was very early I think he died 110 or something like

that ad and he wrote a book called the first apologies in chapter 21 of this book Justin Marta was having a conversation with a pagan okay and he said to the person the Pagan he said to him that just as you believe that

Jupiter is God and there are sons of Jupiter we believe that the father is God and Jesus is the son of God God my question to you is this how can you assure us today that in the first 300 years of Christian history

that there has not been a Greek mythological influence in the formulation of the Trinity you have two minutes Dr Wood well um we we have first century documents right um with the the possible exception of of Luke they're all devout Jews they had

utter contempt for the religions of the pagans of the polytheist um the scriptures that they appeal to are the Old Testament these guys were thoroughly Jewish they appeal to Old Testament prophecies they are devout monotheist um the the views they came to have about

Jesus and the Holy Spirit came from Jesus and the Holy Spirit they didn't go up to Europe and get something about Zeus or something like that um so we know where their beliefs came from right Jesus comes in the world Jesus makes all

kinds of claims um these guys many of these uh early Christians went to their horrible bloody deaths proclaiming that Jesus is Lord one minute left if they were just sort of trying to compromise or picking up something they heard uh in

in the market um they they wouldn't have to deal with that sort of thing um as for as for for Justin Martyr now Justin everyone acknowledges that Justin Martyr makes a bad comparison but he's actually appealing to the Roman leaders to stop

persecuting Christian he's he's making a plea here stop stop killing us stop the persecutions please we're begging you and in this it's well you know we believe Jesus the son of God God you believe in sons of God so why why are

you guys out here why why are you guys out here persecuting us um you can't draw a tremendous amount uh of that about our theology coming from them especially when you have Old Testament passages about the son the Messiah uh

and the Messiah being the Son and the son being the Mighty God thank you very much Dr Wood you may ask your third question yes um Ted um when we look at all the things we have here we have the uh Eternal Word of

Allah which is co-eternal and so he's got his co-eternal word with them uh we've got a spirit we've got all of these different things going on and then you have the word toed to describe it which doesn't simply mean Oneness as I

understand it so I so since you're uh talking about the Arabic here um as I understand it comes from wada which means to unify and therefore means the unification but if you're unifying something then you're bringing different things together and so if we look and we

see these flocks of birds taking the place of the Pagan goddesses and uh interceding for you and things like that um could this word Ted mean something Beyond Oneness here when we see all of these different thing if if Allah is

trying to avoid anything buted and you've got all of these different things and things that are co-eternal with him and interceding flocks of birds uh how do we reconcile all this okay thank you um is a what you call a in the Arabic

language yes you're right to say it comes from the Arabic word uh which means unifying something and it could mean different things in different context for sure now the Quran let's look at what the Quran actually says the Quran

says one more time one more time thank you one more time one more time okay Okay in Arabic language means the one and only yes there was there's a difference between and could mean something which is cardinally counted there's cardinal

numbers one the first second third yes yeah but can never be so it means one and only that's what the Quran says in one of the smallest chapters um when you say that the the Quran one minute left the

Quran this is this is a mus okay these are pages and this this is these are pages right we don't believe these pages and this ink is co-eternal we don't believe that do you do you understand what I'm saying

these pages and this ink this this is not we don't Muslims have never said no muslim has ever said in history that this is co-eternal It's never there not even the M have said this by the way from 133 ad ah so no one has said that

what we believe is that the cam of Allah which is the words of Allah are an attribute of God without we don't make we don't liken it and that the Quran spoken from Allah is a subset of that

attribute that's our belief not this physical thing here that you see with the papers and the we don't believe in that thank you very much Mr hijab before Mr hijab start this fourth question just a friendly reminder uh

please turn your cell phones off or keep it on silent so it won't distract the speakers thank you very much you may go ahead Mr an thank you very much the question I have is um looking at a lot of your content

online in the past week or two I found that seemingly I mean you can correct me if I'm wrong yeah you seem to make a moral case for uh Christianity and a moral case against Islam I watched one of your videos with

someone called Ali atai I think his name was and he he made the point he asked you a question it's on the record he said if Jesus and this is what we've been talking about today uh is the

author of The Old Testament if Jesus is the author of the Old Testament how can you explain all of the things which you deem as immoral because as a a Divine command theorist I would expect you to believe that all of the things in the

Old Testament in terms of injunctions if that had been made by Jesus who is meant to be the author of the Old Testament God the Triune God would have been good but you actually said it's bad there are lots of

bad these are your words there are lots of bad things in the Old Testament now if Jesus is God and he's the Au author of the Old Testament and he has bad injunctions how can you reconcile the fact that God a maximally perfect good

being could give us bad [Applause] injunctions Dr Ry I have two minutes yeah I don't recall saying uh bad things I'll have to take a look at the clip um I did acknowledge that there are all I said there are all sorts of things in

the uh in the Bible that bother me I do I do recall saying that and what I mean by that is I'm a philosopher I'm a former atheist when and this would go for the Quran as well when when you know

things that passages talking about hell or something like that eternal torment or uh Warfare something like that well those things bother me that doesn't mean I reject that they're from God I okay those are I've noticed a mindset in

Islam that if you accept Islam you you can never really think critically about it and and I I I I can't I can't be like that so uh always I'm always rustling with issues um Old Testament and New

Testament um and with the Quran as well so as far as as far as the the the moral case if we're talking about uh Old Testament passages looking at those things yeah I would say these things are these things ah there you know the the

one minute left entering the land of Canaan and fighting the Canaanites and so on those things those things uh they make me wonder sometimes but um if you believe that Jesus rose from the dead then you have to say okay if

Jesus rose from the dead then if I'm going to listen to anyone tell me about God I'm going to listen to Jesus and so if he's Lord then hey if something bothers me that's my problem right that's that's my problem that's

something I have to russle with God accepts that we have to russle with the Psalms are filled with people really really wondering why certain things are happening and uh I don't think that's a bad thing and I don't think God thinks

it's a bad thing uh when we look at something and go Ah that's really rough now I really want to I really want to think about that so I don't see that as any big problem if something bothers me

but I'm convinced that I have good reasons to believe in Christianity then 10 seconds I don't really see the problem uh and that's why I would still accept it because Jesus rose from the dead thank you Dr Wood you may ask your

fourth question yes in the Hadith I'm I'm wondering um because when Allah says however you want to translate it he says uh he prays and the angels pray therefore you pray it's like he's setting himself up as a model so however

you want to translate that that's not the point I'm going talking about that um but he's setting himself up as a kind of model for Behavior but in Hadith we read Muhammad saying that uh if you swear by anything which Hadith yeah

that's a question if you swear by anything other than Allah you're committing shik and setting it up as a partner with Allah so if Muhammad says that swearing by anything is committing Sher and in the Quran Allah swears by

literally everything he swears by all kinds of things and then says he swears by the seen and the Unseen then if Muhammad says doing this is sh and Allah then does it with literally everything uh doesn't this sound more like pantheism than if

everything is set up with a part as a partner with Allah so it's mainly about what sort of things Allah has to do when Muhammad lays down rules like that you have two minutes Mr thank you uh shik by definition can only be done by

other than Allah by definition because sh it means associating partners with Allah you can't that's what that's what Sher is associating partners with Allah so Allah can not it's not within Allah's attributes to do shik it's not possible

that's not a possibility right so the question that you ask is about uh how comes Allah all the and all this he makes what you call he does Oaths in the Quran well Allah even does an oath by

himself so the point is why does Allah have the ability to do to make an oath with anything he wants and we can only make an oath with Allah because Allah owns everything and to Allah we belong this

is the reality yeah so and the scholars say and the scholars say whatever Allah makes an oath of that becomes what you call it becomes an important thing in the sh okay now really and truly just to because some Muslims might be confused

with is it true that someone does aam with other than Allah that they've committed major shik this is not the view of the majority of Scholars right so they say that this is a minor kind of sh just for

the things don't make te of your friends that saying oh on my mom's life yes don't do an excommunication of them um so that hopefully answers your question thank you Mr you may ask your fifth question oh yes this it was really interesting a

follow up from what you said before because it seems to me that it was not a satisfactory answer you were saying that you are wrestling with with these things in the Bible wrestling grappling in your mind about these things in the Bible in

the Old Testament you seem to think that morality yes can be achieved you're a philosopher yes can be achieved from other than a objective morality this is your suggestion that an objective morality can be achieved from other than

the objective law so I want to understand as a are you a Divine command theorist do you believe that the injunctions of God must be perfect and if if you do believe this how can you explain and you did say bad it can

easily be retrieved on the internet I listened to it just yesterday you said the the the Old Testament has bad things in it you said this yes how can you explain that a maximally perfect good God at one point and

time put forward injunctions which could be bad or which otherwise bother you can you explain have two minutes Dr Wood oh well I mean if you mean hey you know there's all kinds of really bad things going on

in the Old Testament yes very very bad things going on in the Old Testament right it's it's a it's a history right but I mean you you could take any history book and say oh look at all these uh bad things going on if you mean

that things you know that uh that I say would you know hey you know I'm wondering about this that's not just me I mean I'm a diagnosed psychopath right I don't have I don't have uh bad feelings uh about these kinds of things

uh the reconciliation is that in the New Testament God is defined as love right we're told God is love which we only understand in a trinitarian it it makes no sense for God to be love from all eternity uh but in the light of the

doctrine of the Trinity with Father Son and Holy spir Spirit now we can see how how God can be love from all eternity not just uh not just uh one person within God so if Jesus says that we're

told that that God loves everyone one minute left that we are to love everyone that we are to harm no one that we are to seek peace with everyone we're told these then I have to obey these kinds of

things and so the difficult part the difficult part then becomes well what do I do about these wars and so on given what I now believe about God and so that's where the struggle comes in uh fortunately uh

the Bible does deal with that right Jesus says Jesus says Moses allowed divorce in these certain in in these circumstances because of the hardness of your heart but from the beginning it was not so now look at what he said here

this is not the will of God God is allowing certain things at certain times because of the hardness of your heart so even according to the Bible is not the ideal situation that is not God's will for Humanity God looks down and sees a

world of Sinners and then has to deal with that right and it's not always it's not always going to be pretty but the New Testament affirms that the the the situations in the Old Testament were not always ideal thank you Dr

Wood you may ask your fifth question um yes chapter 61:4 of the Quran um Allah says that he aided the true followers of Jesus until they became uppermost now I suppose you can interpret that in different ways commentators such as

Yousef Ali interpreted it specifically to mean that Christians the Christian followers of Jesus took over the Roman Empire and that that's how that's how they became uppermost and uh and more powerful than the Jews who rejected Jesus but we know that the Christianity

that that took over Europe took over the Roman Empire believed in Jesus death resurrection and deity and The Trinity by the time they did and so why would Allah help the the wrong Christians if there were earlier Christians who

believe the right thing why did Allah help the wrong ones according to the Quran according to the Quran thank you according to the Quran the Disciples of Jesus The Haun were Muslim this is the answer okay the Quran

says about theun in Chapter 3 of the Quran let us know let we bear witness that we are Muslims meaning what not that they believed in Prophet Muhammad know that they were submitters to God in the same way that Jesus was in John 5:30 I don't

submit myself to my own will but the will of God so why did Allah help the in in chapter 61 of the Quran or Chapter 3 of the Quran because they followed Jesus and he was a prophet of God and so

therefore Allah he helped them because he they followed the true Prophet at that time and that true Prophet which we believe in as the Messiah was Jesus Christ so it was nothing to do with the Roman Empire this T is null and void you

will not find it anywhere of this thing about the Roman Empire no no this is you will not find this in you will not find this in you will not find this in you will not find this in any of the works

it's something I don't know where you've got it from but here the the initial point is that theun the discip IPL we have good opinion of them yes and that is why I say to you and I've been saying

to you for the for the whole discussion you will not find a Apostolic succession for your beliefs as a Christian you will not find Apostolic um you will not find an Apostolic provenant back to Jesus Christ for what you believe you have to

go further back in time you have to back project you have to take the ideas of the later people and basically in in in Islamic terms make you have to render heretical the earlier people we as Muslims we believe that the earlier

peoples of the prophets were the best and then they became worse as it goes on you Christians believe in the opposite and that's a disaster of a belief thank you Mr hijab you may ask your Sixth and final question related to

this I want to just ask this question one last time because I've given him many times in this debate an opportunity to who has this question okay my question is simple I appreciate that early church fathers believed that Jesus

was God some of them did believe that some of them believed he was God but not co-equal that he was in a hierarchy some of them believed he was God but not in the same level as like subordinationism

right I am asking a question if they could designate Jesus as God Co equal and Co Eternal and they use that language respective to Jesus can you give me one person who has interpreted the New Testament yeah for in the first

300 years who has said the same thing about the holy spirit because if you cannot the Frank truth is you have a baseless foundation for your belief for 300 years people would have been the farmer as in your words the farmer the

fisherman the you know the butcher the teacher all of those individuals are damned to Hell despite the fact that they had the gospels in front of them because they couldn't make the natural inference of the holy spirit being God

can you give me one person Church Father first 300 years who designated the Holy Spirit as co-equal co-eternal independent the same language that they use in N for the Holy Spirit please do [Applause] so I'm shocked that people still take this

serious who called the Holy Spirit co-eternal the Bible calls him Eternal the Bible calls him Eternal that language that specific he he said here's a council in the 4th Century that came up with a specific way of uh phrasing things well that was to

help people avoid confusion here so if we're saying that the Holy Spirit uh is God father is God the son is God if this is revealed in scripture and there's only one God guess what that's what they are believing right if someone objects

at some point and says uh I believe that the holy spirit is not Eternal well then in your Creed you need to clarify hey this guy doesn't know what he's talking about the Bible says that he's Eternal so he's co-eternal with the father and

so they put it in a Creed just to be clear Creeds have no Authority Beyond The Script scure one minute left there's the scripture but it's a lot it's 66 books covers 1500 years 40 different authors right there are threads running

throughout the scripture right the purpose of the Creed is to say here's a little short list of the essentials here's a short list of the essentials to make sure that you're on the right side of being an Orthodox

Christian and so I put a little Creed there just because oh so and so was coming to a different position and he's contradicting the Bible therefore we need to we need to make sure we mention coeternal here right but the co-eternal

does not come from the council the co-eternal comes from the Bible right and all of the claims about the equality of the Father the Son and the Holy Spirit those come from the scripture acknowledging them all as Yahweh 10

seconds and so you're you're basically saying hey why why are you using language of clarification later on that you didn't use earlier well the earlier people would have said we understand he's God so I'm five minutes uh before we start uh our Q&A uh

each speaker will have five minutes for conclusions hey wait he started why shouldn't I you can go ahead what's that no no no I mean he started with the question so yes oh yeah I wasn't counting so I wasn't counting but you

have the sixth question six and final question okay um this is is kind of a side issue but I was wondering about it because um U Muhammad you mentioned the ebionites as uh early as an early group who didn't believe in the deity of

Christ uh the ebionites as I understand that we're a group they didn't have the Bible they only had part of the Gospel of Matthew so they had part of the Gospel of Matthew and in that part of the Gospel

of Matthew they didn't have the beginning but they also rejected the Virgin birth they didn't believe that prophets actually got Revelations from God the prophets spoke on their own wisdom so if we're taking the ebionites as the true followers of Christ here

won't we have to reject Islam as well okay thank you um now I have never made the claim that the ebionites are the true followers of Christ that's something you have said that's not something I've said I've just made the

point that they had the Islamic position on two aspects the non- Divinity of Jesus Christ and the non- Divinity of the Holy Spirit now they didn't have the Bible do you know why because they came before John they came on 70 AD John came

95 ad oh man I don't know what to say they only had the gospel of Matthew because only Mark Matthew and Luke the synoptic gospels were available to them they had those synoptic gospels now the thing is when you when you talk about what they

actually believed in I gave you a primary source material hpus he said who was who was the the student of uranius and who was the student of Justin Marta and who taught origin of Cl origin of Alexandria he said in against the

heresies chapter 22 what they believe you can go and check it if you don't believe me it's a primary source material now one minute left I've got a minute I will use the minute now the point you said here about the Holy

Spirit is absolutely null and void do you know how many things in the Bible are Co are Eternal look at milisic milisic he didn't have a mother he didn't didn't have a father in the book of Hebrews he was eternal bring him into

the Trinity bring him into the Trinity today bring him into the Trinity today if that's your only parameter if that is the only thing you have you said God just because something is referred to as Theos in the Greek it must be a coexist

co-eternal then bring Paul in bring the devil in because they're called Theos as well now as it relates to the how long I've got left got seconds okay as it relates to the Holy Spirit Gregory of nanas and Gregory of Nissa they quote in

church documents primary source materials you can check the website many prophets one message it has all the references they quote we didn't know people were disputing about what the holy spirit is some said it was a creature some said it was God some said

it was this some said it was that we did not know that's what they said it's not an argument from Silence I'm making it's an argument from evidence thank you very much M hijab uh Dr Wood you may start your five minute

conclusion or switching well thank you uh thank you again a couple side notes here he says the ebits were too early our earliest reference to the ebits was from 1:40 um of course they they they could be earlier but the point is these were

people who had one part of one gospel and there were certainly there were certainly the rest of the gospels um around during the time but they are they're regarded as a a radical offshoot of Judaism um so to lay them down as

authoritative again these are these are guys who didn't believe that prophets spoke from God um they didn't believe in the Virgin birth and so on so uh if these guys are the closest to the true Jesus then we have to reject the Islamic

Jesus he said melkisedek was eternal now you have to understand what what the author of of Hebrews is doing there he's talking about the descriptions right uh uh we we don't have really time to go into this uh if someone wants to bring

it up in the Q&A ask about melkisedek when we can actually go what he's doing there he was not saying that melkisedek mkdc is eternal uh certainly not claiming that um so uh and the last point just because something is called

um a God in scripture doesn't mean it's uh you know it has Divine attributes and it's not God yes we understand the term Theos and the the term Elohim and the Old Testament can mean various things the question is how are these terms used

of Jesus how are these terms used of the father how are these terms used of the Holy Spirit the holy spirit is creating the world in the Bible the holy spirit is eternal in the Bible so to just brush

that off and say well other things are called God yeah not in the same not in that way right right you could say oh those are false gods there you're calling them you're you're saying they're they're Gods in some way you're

using the term but you're not applying it seriously when we have Father Son and Holy Spirit these are used seriously of Father Son and Holy Spirit um so as far as what we have what we have tonight um again we see in the

Old Testament we see from the opening verses of the Book of Genesis and throughout the Old Testament various uh claims of plurality within the one God Jewish commentators have mentioned this uh modern experts in Judaism acknowledge that prior to the end of the 2 Century

where the Jewish Community swung very hardly in a uh Unitarian Direction there was widespread agreement in the Jewish community and Muhammad hijab how did he respond well show me where they say coqu co-eternal father son holy no one's

claiming they knew that the point was you think they had this taish belief and they just didn't right what did what did the scholar say what do various Jewish Scholars say that the doctrine that Christians believe in would have fit in

very comfortably with what Jews prior to the second century had fit in there would have been nothing there for for a Jew to Claim about uh to complain about in terms of theology they would reject they wouldn't reject it by saying oh

that's a confusing doctrine of God is the point they would say we reject Jesus as the Messiah that would be the main complaint of uh Jews during the time um and what have we seen on the other side right and here's what's

interesting um Christians have a lot of data right we have the Old Testament passages we have Jesus coming into the world and we see the various things that Jesus did in the claims he made and since he rises from the dead we have to

take those claims seriously so when he's claiming to be the final judge of all mankind or when he's claiming to be the one who raises the dead at the resurrection we recognize the kinds of claims that he's making and then when we

find various claims about the Holy Spirit we take those seriously and we say all right everything that God has revealed to us we have to take seriously and the only way to take it all seriously is with something like the

doctrine of the Trinity one minute left we turn to Islam and we find all kinds of things that are just confusing I you know I I I talk about Allah praying and ah it means sending blessings they're perfectly you say Baraka right we know

how to say that why does he use the word that's prayer so much so confusing so confusing that even Muslim translators are now translating it as Allah praying in a variety of different circumstances Allah praying for self-control so that

his Mercy can triumph over his wrath and we find this over and over again that you have an eternal word that there is a spirit that proceeds from within Allah that you have a man that that his followers were were drinking his blood

all of these things if we said uh again goddesses are interceding with you with Allah you would say polytheism but the Quran is doing it in the form of birds who know things who talk and it's pure monotheism seconds left and so when we

see this over and over again Islam looks like it's trying to copy Christianity but just doing a really bad job of it thank you very much Dr [Applause] Wood five minutes David wood has been more interested or more concerned with trying to disprove

Islam Today Than defending Christianity he talks about the ebionites as being a radical offshoot this is an ahistoric way of rendering history one man's Orthodox is another man's heresy gospel gospels he says in one other time he says the gospels were

not present at the time of the Church Father this is a this is a lie or a misreading or a misunderstanding he should be reading his primary source materials almost all of them refer to the four gospels all of the major Church

fathers refer to the four gospels let's say from Justin Mar onwards 100% this is something well known look at their Works athanasius he's the one who made a short list of what is going to be the Bible right he made a short list in mid

fourth Century the 27 books of the Old Testament now the question we could ask is who gave him the authority to do that to include in God's word to take out of God's word this is God's word this is

not God why is the Gospel of Thomas not in the Bible why is this he's making the decision it then became quite popular and it was an organic thing it wasn't in a council that these are the 27 books of

the Old Testament that's another issue when we talk about the Bible what are we really talking about there's issues with the Bible there is no chain going back to Jesus everything that we have called AI an authentic Hadith has a chain going

back to Prophet Muhammad or Allah and that's what you don't have and that's why our books are preserved and yours are not that's another issue he says he believes in progressive revelation in the old in the New Testament well that's very good you know

why because I agree with him on this point I want to end with this I agree with him I believe he's right yes the Bible does talk about a progressive revelation which is why it talks about the upcoming

prophet and that's why if you read Isaiah 42 ask answer me this who in history has come to the kadit the Arabs has made the people of sah the mountain tops Rejoice who in history went to the Arabs

and made the Arabs Rejoice defeating his enemies in military Warfare and this is not something we're shy about by the way this is something we're very proud of very proud of this is something we're very proud of because our

Prophet is a winner a military winner it's part of his prophecy that he was going to do that that's what Deuteronomy chapter 18 says that there was going to one of the ways to tell a true Prophet is through prophecy every single one of

the prophets Muhammad's prophecies came true look at the Quran it's a way that a Christian an honest Christian could come to terms who is this man Prophet Muhammad sallallahu alaihi wasallam do the research well he's right there is progressive

revelation but it did not end with Jesus it continued to Prophet Muhammad sallallahu alaihi wasallam and that is why in the Quran it doesn't mention progressive revelation he's the final Prophet if you really want salvation W all that said

and done 20 years of attacking Islam mockumentaries uh you know making fun of prophet Muhammad dressing up as a woman and these things no problem W I believe I'm speaking on behalf of all the Muslims here yes I will forgive you and

the Muslims will forgive you if you repent today I will forgive you and the Muslims we will forgive you if you you repent today I want to give you one piece of advice sorry I'm just making comment I

want to I want to give the Muslims in my concluding speech one piece of advice which is you'll find it in First Peter chapter 3 verse 15 that if someone asks you a question you know about what you

what you hope you know then speak speak to them respectfully yes honorably respectfully mocking Muslims you know dress like them and these things that's not respectful be like James White be like William leay Craig we can have we can have we can

have more fruitful cohesion in our communities man we want to have cohesion we as Muslims I'm putting the yes I'm putting the Olive Branch now to the Christian Community we don't want to we will never the Quran says chapter 6 108 do not curse their

gods we're not allowed to curse the gods of other people the Bible is the same ladies and gentlemen the Bible says don't don't curse look at 1 Peter 3:15 don't curse us don't mock us because like today you

will be shown the truth in a very harsh manner you'll be shown the truth in a very very embarrassing Manner and that is the reality ladies and gentlemen come humbly 10 seconds and you will come humbly and you will be

received humbly give us your hand and we will shake it only if you respect us in the first place thank you very much Mr hijab we would like to thank both of our speakers uh we're going to start taking questions

right now so for any questions for Dr Wood form on the right any questions for Dr Mr hijab form over here please not Dr yet all right wood is here oh okay either way only to ask one okay oh what are the rules for the Q

you EST I want to make sure that the question there's no offens question that's all no no I mean about like time and stuff like that take okay so it's just sort of lay back if we can all be try to be as quiet

as we can we're going to start our Q&A right now is it working testing nice okay it's first question is going to be to brother hijab on the right over here this is oh this is for this is for brother hijab

this any questions for Mr hijab you can start over here questions for Mr hijab just to clarify questions for Mr hijab over here question for Dr Wood will be over there you can still ask she had it confused all right we'll

we'll start the first question he's going to do two so he's going to do two right all right yeah sure okay is the mic working okay okay please if we can stay as quiet as possible so we can hear

the question so one thing that Dr Wood uh bought up multiple times during both your intro your rebuttal as well as your conclusion was the fact that uh Muslim Scholars claimed that companions drink the prophet's blood um with your level

of intellect I mean with Dr Wood's level of intellect and profession I'm sure you're well aware of one of the most basic teachings of Islam which is regarding our diet which is halal and Haram we're forbidden to eat any or

drink any type of blood in any form um if you you know have any doubt you can look at Surah 6 Ayah 145 so um you know with the claim about us Muslim SCH scholar saying that the Prophet The

Companions did indeed drink the prophet's blood can we get one creditable name that of a scholar that did in fact say that I'm having trouble hearing here do you could you repeat like basically she was basically she was saying there's a

verse in the Quran that stated that drinking blood or eating any type of yeah so she she asked if you can provide an actually proven scholar that states that the that the sahaba or the companions actually drank the blood of

the Prophet is that is was that your question yes that that was the question so oh yeah no I'll I'll give you the source okay go ahead you want to ask another well see take your time don't worry about

that oh that that's uh that's in uh that's in um cotti ilot I'm sorry cotti ilot hang on me give you um I can give you the uh I think the reference would be okay so this is uh asifa by K ilad says um Muhammad IB

sad alak scribe related that Aisha said to the prophet when you come from relieving yourself we do not see anything noxious from you he said Aisha do you not know that the Earth swallows up what comes out of the prophets so

that none of it is seen although this tradition is uh not famous the people of knowledge still notice the people of knowledge still mention the purity of his feces and urine there was also the time when Malik ibben San drank his

blood on the day of Ood and licked it up the prophet allowed him to do that and said the fire will not touch you so this is uh Pages 35 through 37 of uh ashifa thank you very much Dr

Wood next question for Mr hijab go ahead uh hi um good debate thanks uh you throughout your debate you kept saying that there was no Apostolic succession for the Trinity and basically until the nine uh the Council of nine there was

nothing about the Trinity no no church father has said anything between Jesus's death and 300 and whatever ad or whatever that occurred uh one question for you then can you name one person between 33 ad and 583 ad who said

anything about Islam because there was no Apostolic succession for Islam either sorry what's the I I can't hear what exactly what he saying can you can you repeat he was basically saying that uh if you can mention uh if you can mention

a source from 3 ad from 33 ad from 33 ad from Jesus's crucifixion to about the time of 583 ad when uh when your Prophet began can you repeat what he said actually I'll give yeah yeah yeah please but he was started in

583 you can actually speak into this m it'll be more this won't go just let them come up they might just need to turn that mic up hi so I was asking if you know one of your core questions were you know what's

the apostolic succession between the Trinity you're talking about the Trinity there was nothing mentioned by the church fathers between Jesus's crucifixion and the Council of naine um can you mention one person historically who has talked about the the Poss

succession of Islam between 33 ad and 583 ad when your Prophet began when my Prophet began sorry what I don't I don't get I don't get it sorry what what you saying he's basically asking for a reference from 33 ad to 583 to 583 where

it was mentioned that the prophecy Islam was coming what sorry I'm really I'm not doing this on purpose I'm not understand he wants a source where or any any is he talking about Islam or Christianity here he talking about Islam during 33 ad 33

ad is not Islam yeah I know I know he's saying was there a reference to Islam something to portray that would say that Islam is coming okay that's basically what he's asking Islam means submission there's a reference to that in the Bible

John 5:30 because it says I do not submit myself to my own will but to the will of the father that is Islam linguistically that's what Islam means so that's in the Bible we don't need to go to 33 ad is that is that right I

mean is that a question yeah yeah sorry one more one more time I'm not understanding the question you're saying that there's there's nothing about the Trinity between 33 ad and about the time of the Council of nyine this is the this is the

Crux of your argument one of the things you said the most but by that same definition we have nothing between 33 ad that speaks anything about anything well not anything in the Quran but most of things in the Quran or Islam so

basically the apostles did not succeed yes yes okay as Muslims we don't believe that the Quran was revealed to Jesus we believe it was revealed to Prophet Muhammad right so obviously the Quran because it was not revealed to Jesus

there would be no reference to it because it was a final Testament that came afterwards you see so when I made my argument I wasn't I did not make the argument that the Trinity was not mentioned yeah the Trinity was mentioned

by tertullian I I mentioned that I mention men the Nan Trinity of 381 and after that which stipulates very spe specific parameters as to what the Trinity is and what the Trinity isn't that was my argument yeah so I didn't

say the Trinity is not there in the first uh whatever 300 years I said the Nan Trinity wasn't there as for Islam my my point was that if you don't believe that Jesus is divine and you don't believe that the holy spirit is divine

like many Monarch monarchists and ebonites didn't believe then by definition you believe there's only one God worthy of worship right and if that if if that's what you believe then you're a Muslim in a sense because you you're submitting yourself to one God so

from that perspective I think the case can be made thank you thank you thank you very much one question over there for Dr Wood all right so um can you hear me properly Dr Wood I just want to make sure a

little bit all right I I don't know if I'm in a bad spot that's the only mic I could uh hear really well just say it loud am I better now all right perfect um so my question is regarding the

equality among the Trinity so um in Matthew 28 um Verse 18 Jesus says that all authority is given to him and on in the heavens and in the earth and then in John um chapter 16:3 it states that but when the spirit

of truth comes he will be um he will guide you into all Truth for he will not speak on his own authority but he will speak on what he hears so if the holy spirit is God why doesn't he have any

authority to speak thank you uh if you look at if you look at how um The Gospel of John uh is using these terms it's the the emphasis in these passages is not is not uh that the holy

spirit is not God or that Jesus is not God he's trying to show that they they are one right in other words in John CH 5 right Muslims love to bring up John chapter 5 where Jesus says uh of my own

self I can do nothing check check it's working he says of my own self I can do nothing they say aha right there which is parallel to the spirit doesn't speak on his own on his on his own authority

right if you look at what's actually going on there um at the beginning of John I mean earlier in John chapter 5 because Jesus is calling him the son and saying that uh he can work on the Sabbath because the father does notice

Jews are not allowed to work on the Sabbath Jesus says but the father works on the Sabbath and so do I right when he said that they accused him of claiming to be another God right he's a rogue

deity right he's a he's separate so what he does there in the rest of John chapter 5 that's where he claims to that he's the one who raises the dead at the resurrection he says that he is the one

uh who is the final judge and he says that um we have to honor him just as we honor the father right so keep in mind we have to you would only honor someone the same way you honor the father if he

has the same natur nature and attributes as the father so when he says when he says that he can do nothing of himself or when the Holy Spirit does not not speak on his own authority what these are saying is they don't do these things

separately as separate deities from the father CU that's the accusation as soon as you start saying some things are Divine they start accusing you of saying there's other gods so the emphasis is he doesn't do this on his

own all right thank you very much Dr Wood uh we're past the halfway mark right now and Q&A so we're going to try to speed it up as much as we can so we we'll limit each answer to one minute uh

for both speakers so I think uh the next question is for Mr hijab you can go ahead and speak yes uh I have a question for Mr hijab I was wondering since the thrust of your argument hinges on

David's inexpert flaw knowledge of Arabic don't you think it's a little odd that the will of God can only be discerned by people who speak an esoteric language spoken by less than 5% of the popula world population and which

has many dialects and isn't even spoken by the majority of self-professed Muslims and what do you think of the fact that there are people who are very learned in Arabic who were even born in Arabia who have the same

epistemological moral scientific and historical critiques of the Quran thank you for your question um your question was about the Arabic language of the Quran and you were saying that is it is it the case that only Arabs can access the Quran in is it

why is it that only 5% of the population can access this and the rest cannot now there's a difference between understanding the fundamentals of a religion yes and trying to do ex Jesus yes ex Jesus is when you try

hermeneutically to go into the text and understand it holistically and for that you require language ability for that you require whether you're doing with the Bible or the Quran you're required to have some kind of ability to understand the language otherwise your

hermeneutic will be necessarily limited now just quickly as I do have a little bit of time answering the question or the point on on John uh that uh that David talked about John John chap John 10:34 Jesus clearly says why did you

call me God I mean they were about to Stone him and he said this and he's is's referencing Psalms 82 so if he really believed he God then why is he saying didn't didn't you say this of old like

ye are Gods you ye are gods in other words it's a language of the people and that's one of the biggest problems sorry that up sorry AP go ahead um you can go ahead question for Dr Wood I have one question for you it has

three co-equal parts but I assure you that it's just one question try to keep it to one we're trying to get as much question as you can well three three is [Applause] one you can go ahead can I ask it go

ahead would you agree that the concept of the Trinity has evolved over time what do you say about revelation 22 verse 18 to 19 where it says I warn everyone who hears the word of the prophecy of this

book if anyone adds to them God will add to him the plagues described in this book etc etc etc and can you explain Matthew 7: 21-23 where Jesus says I never knew I never knew you get away from me

well there he says not everyone who says not everyone who says to me Lord Lord will enter the kingdom of heaven but only those who do the will of my father um so he will say um I I never knew you

uh I don't understand what what the problem is there um Jesus calls himself Lord but he's saying not not you don't just call him Lord and then and then you're fine um what was the other part um what do you uh would you agree that

the concept of Trinity has evolved over time oh no the the the clarification of the concept right keep in mind whe whether you're talking about the Quran whether you're talking about the Bible you have historical events you have uh

Revelations from prophets statements and so on um and if you're coming up with the Creed you're trying to clarify it you're trying to make it as concise as possible so uh yeah they had to they had to figure out how to say things in using

certain terms in language but uh I I the Triune God is eternal right the Triune God is eternal our our descriptions our descriptions may take time but that's not that's not the Trinity evolving that's our Concepts being clarified and

what about the third part where I said what do you say about Revelation 22: 18-19 where it says I warn everyone who hears the words of the prophecy of this book if anyone adds to them God will add

to him the plagues described in this book etc etc has the the the Book of Revelation the author didn't know he's going to be writing the last book of the Bible he's talking about his prophecy his prophecy in Book of Revelation don't

take my prophecy and add a bunch of words to them so he's just saying hey don't add to my prophecy here and and act like it's my prophecy that doesn't mean you can't clarify uh Concepts right so right thank you very much uh question

for Mr hijab yes I have a question for Mr David I'm sorry I have a question for Mr wood for Mr wood we would have to take question from Mr hijab first anyone want to answer a question go ahead hello

Mr hijab I had a question for you U yes um are you certain that you will be going to heaven uh Jana as according to Islam says you yourself no does that concern you maybe David will go to heaven and I will go to

hell does that's that's a possibility you know I mean I as a Muslim as a Muslim I can't guarantee and you know Christians say Christians say that that you know God this is one of the arguments that you can't guarantee

yourself the Kingdom of Heaven yeah yeah that's true that that that's true what why is that amount to the falsity of Islam I mean what logical reasoning is that anyways the point is say for instance you're a Christian and you

believe that if you're a Christian you're going to go to heaven but even according to your own belief system there is a possibility a logical rational possibility that for instance you'll die upon Hinduism or atheism or or Judaism and in which case you will

have to you have to conclude that you cannot be perfectly sure that you're going to uh Heaven because that would mean that you have perfect knowledge of the future and not only uh do you not have that perfect knowledge not not even

the Holy Spirit had that knowledge thank you very much Mr hijab you may ask your question for Dr Wood real quick yeah you said in the beginning that God uh was in the heaven and he was his the spirit was hovering

of uh over the heaven and it was a mystery and the Mystery was supposed to be uh revealed but it went on and more into dark the mystery never got explained if I am if I'm pushed towards believing God to be a mystery it would

be Hinduism wherein God comes through multiple incarnations to uh Earth in order to fix people uh does that mean Christianity a subset of Hinduism where it claims Jesus came as an incarnation of God did you get that I caught

like no you got that you come speak into this in Hinduism it is a common belief that God comes as incarnations and I suppose you also believe that Jesus came as incarnation of God onto the Earth to fix people and

to teach the morality does that mean Christianity is a subset of Hinduism in terms of its beliefs wow no uh you can't say anyone who believes in an Incarnation is a subset of Hinduism uh if someone who's never heard

one single thing about Hinduism which would have been first century Jews uh believe in an Incarnation uh has nothing has nothing to do with uh with Hinduism just because you have um some sort of parallel in some way uh like oh but

there are many religions that believe in Rising from the dead doesn't mean they all stole it from each other um so no right uh next question for Mr hijab oh yeah oh yeah guys uh thank you for coming uh thanks Muhammad and uh so my

question is like there's a question that David wood asked about uh the fact that the Quran says that about sorry oh uh the Quran says that uh the followers of Jesus were supposed to be uppermost yes and uh and so like I I was wondering

what your understanding of that is cuz I thought that them being uppermost would be that they are the ones who are going to overcome over the disbelievers and so we obviously know that CH the Christians who were there during Muhammad's time

believed in the Trinity and so like I was just wondering what happened to Jesus's disciples according to Islam and why did they why are they not able to counter the false disciples well in the Quran it says about this it

says talking about the it says that we're going to make them higher than those who have disbelieved until the day of judgment yes so it's talking about the Disciples of Jesus we believe that those early Christians were on the truth

let me repeat the Quran says very clearly that those Christians will go to heaven those Christians will go to heaven they believed in Christ they were followed Christ they believed in his law Etc now there's a difference now there's

a point of demarcation between the early Christians the disciples and then the church fathers and then those who came after those so the the point is as Muslims our Creeds we believe Jesus was innocent of all of this that his

followers were innocent of all of this and that and that they are people who are honored in Islam and whoever says anything wrong about the disciples in Islam has left Islam because there something in Islam yes which is very

clear it's a it's a clear point of a for us yes if anyone curses the the the disciples this is kuur because Allah he says which means disbelief at the same time Allah says the ones who say that Jesus is God

they are disbelievers as well so it can't be both ways help me both thank you very much one question for Dr Wood uh before I begin David wood said that the companions of the Prophet deified uh the prophet well when he died Abu Bakr told

the people he told the people that the prophet has passed away but God is alive and he can never die sahkari book 64 Hadith 472 now before that was just a clarification my question is in the Old Testament God God says he is not a Man

Hosea 11:9 and he is not the son of a man numbers 23:19 and he has full knowledge Psalms 147 Jesus is a man he calls himself the son of man and he doesn't know everything Christians will say that was before he took on a body

and he took on the attributes of man but doesn't this contradict Malachi 3:6 where the Lord says he does not [Music] change it was like 12 things it was one thing try to answer whatever you can all right

uh as far as yeah we I understand that Muhammad has died the the problem is that Islam keeps taking these things like the Blackstone and the Caba and Muhammad and treating them in a way that is far beyond what you would expect for

a for a mere creation so you guys understand you know Muhammad died and he's not a God in that sense I'm saying they're showing reverence that should never be shown to a mere human being um as far as God not being a man or the or

the or the son of man if you look what's what's being said there God is asked to change his mind he said God is not a man that he should that he should change his mind um so it's saying his character is

not going to change which is the same thing you find in Malachi God is not going to change his character or in that way it doesn't mean God can never do something different in some way or that God uh can't um can't enter creation he

starts he enters creation repeatedly in Genesis right he walks in the garden with Adam he appears to Abraham so God does that's not what they're talking about as far as um as far as God changing that was the best I could do in

one minute [Applause] good one question from Mr hijab thank you great debate Mr hijab sorry yes sorry if yes um if the prophet Muhammad wasam uses the Bible as his basis to validate his prophethood especially in the words of

Jesus Christ where Jesus Christ said I'm going to the father and I'll send to you a comforter the spirit of Truth who will be with you and teach you into all truth like one of your famous apologist am did

that refers to that scripture as the validation for Prophet Muhammad's um like prophethood now what do we make of what Jesus Christ said emphatically to his disciples that they should go and wait upon him in Jerusalem and then the

spirit will come on them and in the book of Acts we witness a spectacle where the Holy Spirit comes to the disciple as clothing tongues on fire and we see a significant transformation from in the lives of the

disciples and from there even the Roman government could not resist the power and the demonstration of the Holy Spirit at work in the disciples and over over the years Christianity has spread not by sword but by the demonstration of the

love power of the Holy Spirit how do we reconcile these demonstrations of the holy spirit in reference to what there's a lot of things in there so let me try and cover them I just just one request I

think we're going to after this we're going to have to take just two more questions and try to keep your questions like like you know as simple as possible don't cuz you know we're trying to take as much question as we can but you know

it's it's impossible with you stretching the questions like that cuz we have limited time so okay so there were a few points first thing he said is about taking the Bible as an authority yes the Quran says the injil the tat but the

original one sent to Moses and Jesus and the evidence of that is chapter 5:46 where it talks about and then it goes the lamb here is a l says this meaning it goes back to the previous passage and the next verse chapter 5:48

says that the Quran is a guardian over the Bible yes this book is a guardian over this so it is an authority in as much as it does not contradict the Quran according to the Quran now that's point

one point two about Christianity not being spread by the sword is a misreading of History actually if you look at Constantine and the theodosian code actually the only way Christianity spread through the Roman Empire was through the sword look at the uh primary

source material about the theodosian code from theodosian theodosius II he enforced Nan trinitarianism by force according to all of the historians across the whole of the Roman Empire until the Pagan religions of the Romans were completely dissipated not to mention of course

colonialism not to mention of course the Spanish colonist not to mention of course one of the biggest one of the biggest casualties in War in human history yes one of the biggest was when the Spanish Empire and the French Empire

and the British empire spread it your country in Africa it spread it everywhere don't tell me it wasn't spread by the sword don't tell me it wasn't spread by the sword what are you talking about the difference between Islam and

Christianity in this regard was that Islam spread organically whereas Christianity required a man who was an Empire at that time to spread it forcefully we fought as Muslims the bigger enemy you were the bigger enemy fighting the smaller people that's the

difference don't tell me about these things this is a don't misread history thank you brother hijab for your answer uh we'll take a question for Dr Wood Dr Wood it's an honor to be here I want to first thank you can you speak

closer into the mic please I want to first thank you I converted to Christianity this year January 1st and part of it was because of the answers that you have given me so thank you um I've watched a lot of your debates with

shabir Ali and others Mr hijab is talking about William link correct and how respectful they are but I mean if this doesn't work out maybe you can do some stand up comedy but you asked me you asked somebody asked about

melkisedek so could you please explain who melkisedek was in the Old Testament thank you oh with with uh with melkisedek um well we're down to one minute now but uh if you look at what uh the author of Hebrews is doing um he's

saying that the the Jews already had their own uh uh priesthood the the levitic priesthood but the Messiah is going to be from the order of melkisedek so he basically says what are the differences in the descriptions in

scripture he he this is a guy who reads kind of codes into the Bible right he he's looking for codes in the scripture they took this very seriously um so he says what's the difference in the description textually between melkisedek

and uh and Levi and that's going to tell us something about the Messiah so he starts doing this aha well we have a genealogy for Levi we have none for melkisedek right and so he starts going down the list and then he draws a

meaning out of it he's not actually saying that he's Eternal or something like that he's saying according to these passages we can learn something and his conclusion is that the Messiah is eternal not that not that not that uh

melkisedek is thank you thank you Dr wood for your answer um so uh Mr President I'm I'm sorry Mr President Mr President so this is the final question yes okay uh a question for brother okay yeah a question for Muhammad hijab yeah uh you

sir have been uh complaining that David w u mocked Muslims sorry you have complained that Mis would have mocked Muslims yeah and you have been mocking him all night yes yeah that's right my question goes around to Authority you have been attacking the

authority of Christians on which authority we base our faith on Trinity sorry attack on they Bas the yes okay and you seems like you believe in church more than Christians do and let me tell you why because you

ask for church authorities children gech Scholars Christians who have somehow in certain time talked about uh the Trinity let me tell you and teach you something about Christianity tonight I'm willing to learn from you guys our Authority number one is Jesus

Christ Our Authority is the Bible so when we site scripture we're citing a lot more than Augustine that you worship okay okay can you put the question Mr wood said uh Genesis 1:26 a woman can speak here right um is okay so let her let her

POS her question go ahead genesis: 126 says then God said let us make Mankind in our image in our likeness in 27 says so God created Mankind in his own image in the image of God he created them male and female he created

them God is speaking by himself sorry he is plural and he calls himself him so either you believe in Genesis if you believe in Moses which wrote The Genesis or you don't believe and you're bad Muslim too okay um and there goes the question

to Authority go ahead sorry yeah of your faith I want to understand how is that you claim Authority on mammed yeah who had in among multiple wives wife Aisha According to some 6 years old according to others down please please

settle down I want to understand I want to understand because because I've heard him before in a video EXC excuse me excuse me miss you either ask a question this is not a debate you're not you are not debating you either ask a question

or you leave that's my answer that's my answer you either ask a question or you leave thank you very much okay I no no actually the behind you am I not going to answer a question can I can I answer

a question actually before before that happens we have Mr hijab he wants to answer the question here yeah uh why do I why why am I firm and assertive with David wood is because he spent 20 years of his life mocking Muslims and Islam

accumulating more than 50 million 60 million Channel views attacking Muslims in Islam which has led to brothers and sisters of mine being attacked on roads in this country exacerbating islamophobia this man is not going to get nice treatment from me he's not

going to get it this guy is not James White this guy is not William Lane Craig this guy is not respectable so he will not be treated with respect now he now just because your boy was smashed to use

khabib's words it doesn't mean now that you you're going to give me a can you please settle down please settle down yes now Point number two point yeah Point number two she mentioned many things multiple wives well look at the look at the old

test please you so you were talk about the Old Testament Abraham had three wives Solomon had 300 wives I mean look you're very lucky that Islam kept it at four because if it was in Solomon's time there would be 300 now

really and truly now I don't understand why why you must be very upset with me like this I mean why would you not upset with David wood when he was mocking the Muslims for for for 10 years why you are a hypocrite you miss a

hypocrite okay get the next question okay Mr job okay I I want to I want to end [Applause] this I want to end this on a good note so we have one question no no this side this side this side this side we're

trying to get him first we'll get we'll get you after go ahead mm um what percentage what percentage of Christians had memorized the entire Holy [Applause] Bible I guess that's for you I'm following the rules and everything this is

David all right can you please can you please settle down so Dr answer the question what what I know is that uh most of the Muslims memorize the Quran quickly and do you know any Muslims that any Christians that memorized the Bible

quickly or uh any any% of them well the the Quran is designed for an oral culture to be memorized easily right I mean right okay no no please settle down please settle down be respectable please gu there are hundreds of thousands of

people who have memorized Dr Seuss's Green Eggs and Ham does that make it the word of God ladies and gentlemen I'm trying to be respectful here to to because these are young guys here Christ in Christianity the Bible is meant to be

a book that's read right that that's the idea they they they wrote Creeds and you would memorize Creeds we have some of them they wrote songs they memorize songs but the the books of the Bible are written down to be books and to be read

in public the Quran the Quran is meant to be is meant to be is meant to be memorized so there different kinds of scripture why you would say oh a book that's more memorizable or something like that is must be more the word of

God or something again that would make green eggs and ham much much more the word of God than the Quran because it's much much easier to understand Oh by by the a little side note as far as mocking Muslims because

it's been brought up like a thousand times I haven't I haven't uh I haven't responded um I mock teachings of Muhammad right like like dunking flies and drinks and uh things like that and if you say that's not what I read about mockery in the

Muslim sources right I mean when there was a polytheist there Abu Bakr said go suck a Lots close your ears if you're a child he said go suck a lot's clitoris to one of the polytheists they're mocking the beliefs of the polytheist

over and over again we find they mocking the beliefs if mockery is bad then you've condemned your own God and your own prophet so okay please settle down pleas please settle down please settle down please settle down seriously this

is not you guys claim to be Muslims this is not how Muslims act this is not how Muslims act you guys want to represent Islam we have brother Muhammad hijab here he's done a very excellent job you're basically undoing everything that

he has done tonight please be respectful and we're going to end our Q&A session right here thank you very much for coming we're going to have food in the cafeteria right across an academic core building thank you very much for coming yourk

College Muslim Student Association thanks both Dr Wood and brother Muhammad heab thank you so [Music] much nobody going up