Speaker A
So I have Tommy Emmanuel here, who's one of my absolute favorite guitarists in the world.
Tommy Emmanuel shares insights on guitar mastery, arrangement techniques, and blending styles in this in-depth interview with Rick Beato.
Key Takeaways
- Master the melody as originally composed before personalizing arrangements.
- Incorporate surprise elements and complex harmonies to enhance musical interest.
- Draw inspiration from various genres and instruments to develop a unique guitar style.
- Audience engagement is a key measure of a performance's effectiveness.
- Continuous evolution and reinterpretation of pieces reflect artistic freedom and growth.
Summary
- Tommy Emmanuel discusses his guitar influences, including Chet Atkins, Jerry Reed, and jazz musicians.
- He explains his approach to arranging songs, focusing on interpreting melodies as the composer intended.
- Emmanuel highlights the importance of surprise and sophisticated harmony in keeping music engaging.
- He shares techniques for incorporating piano-like phrasing and vocal harmonies into guitar playing.
- Tommy emphasizes learning melodies thoroughly before adding personal stylistic elements.
- He describes adapting classical pieces like 'Classical Gas' for solo guitar performance.
- Audience response is crucial for evaluating the success of his arrangements and performances.
- Emmanuel talks about the evolution of his playing style over time, using 'Lady Madonna' as an example.
- He stresses the difference between skill development and musical expression when learning complex pieces.
- The interview reveals Tommy’s dedication to blending genres and creating unique guitar interpretations.
Full Transcript — Download SRT & Markdown
Speaker B
I want to keep moving my chair forward so I can see everything that Tommy plays.
Speaker A
Yeah, no, actually, he wants to keep moving his chair forward because he wants to be bigger in the picture, he wants me to look small.
Speaker B
That's what he's really doing.
Speaker A
Tommy, how do you get so great on the guitar?
Speaker B
There's so many different things that you do well.
Speaker A
Oh, so many different types of guitar playing, you're a great electric guitar player, you're incredibly well well versed in so many different genres and your arrangements utilize so many different types of guitar things.
Speaker B
Whether it's like I've seen you do your, you know, the cascading harmonics and things like that.
Speaker A
Well, well, I, I mean, I got it directly from Chet Atkins.
Speaker B
Yes.
Speaker A
As all of us did, he was the first person to make that sound on a record.
Speaker B
Yeah.
Speaker A
And it was, you know, it was a long time ago.
Speaker A
It was in probably the late 40s or early 50s.
Speaker A
Um, Lenny Bro came along and took it to another level.
Speaker A
I just found ways of doing it myself that, um, I tried to come up with arrangements of songs that the public would know.
Speaker B
Yes.
Speaker A
Like Michelle, somewhere over the rainbow.
Speaker A
I also have an arrangement of, um, Secret Love.
Speaker A
Which incorporates some other harmonics too.
Speaker B
Ooh.
Speaker A
Right.
Speaker A
So it has a bit of, has a bit of everything.
Speaker A
You can't, this guitar's not super loud.
Speaker A
Um, and Mr. and Mrs. Gibson loaned me this today.
Speaker A
Um, and it's got very light strings on it.
Speaker A
I use heavier strings, just wanted you to know that.
Speaker A
But it.
Speaker B
There are so many different stylistic things.
Speaker B
There's a lot of really sophisticated jazz harmony that you do in there.
Speaker A
Well, they, they're the surprise moments.
Speaker B
Yeah.
Speaker A
You know.
Speaker B
That we talked about.
Speaker A
I saw your interview with Sting and and Dominic.
Speaker A
And, um, you know, uh, Sting is so right about that.
Speaker A
We need to be surprised.
Speaker A
Because actually, surprise equals entertainment.
Speaker A
You know.
Speaker A
And I learned that from Pat Metheny.
Speaker A
And so surprise me is a beautiful thing.
Speaker A
So, you know, I, I purposely, I went looking for stuff that that is purposely not predictable.
Speaker B
That's where it gets into those more sophisticated harmony.
Speaker B
You're really combining so many different styles of harmony in that right there.
Speaker A
Right there.
Speaker A
Well, you know, I, I have a lot of people to thank for that.
Speaker A
You know.
Speaker A
Chet, of course.
Speaker B
Yeah.
Speaker A
Jerry Reed.
Speaker B
Yeah.
Speaker A
Ray Charles.
Speaker A
Yeah.
Speaker A
Um.
Speaker A
George Benson.
Speaker A
Um, and, uh, Lenny Bro, of, of course.
Speaker A
And, and every jazz player that I've ever come across.
Speaker A
And piano player.
Speaker A
I remember one time I was walking through an airport.
Speaker A
I can't even remember where it was.
Speaker A
And I, I heard this piano playing.
Speaker A
And it was, it was.
Speaker A
And he was playing Moon River.
Speaker A
And he went, you know.
Speaker A
Moon River.
Speaker A
And he wasn't singing.
Speaker A
And then he went.
Speaker A
And I went, holy smoke.
Speaker A
What was that?
Speaker A
You know, because guitar players don't do that.
Speaker A
That's right.
Speaker A
This piano.
Speaker A
And I said, I gotta steal that straight away.
Speaker A
So I sat down and got my guitar and worked it out.
Speaker A
And then I thought, okay, how can I vary it?
Speaker A
Because I can't use it every time.
Speaker B
Right.
Speaker A
So, so.
Speaker A
The second time.
Speaker A
Yeah.
Speaker A
Then.
Speaker A
So forth.
Speaker A
And, and I'm.
Speaker A
I'm trying to do piano things on the guitar.
Speaker A
To be different because I don't want to be sounding like every other kind of chordal melody kind of guy.
Speaker A
You know.
Speaker B
When you're working on an arrangements.
Speaker B
Arrangement.
Speaker B
Is there some style of, of, uh, harmony that you like to use?
Speaker B
If you're playing a Beatles tune, for example.
Speaker A
Right, then I go for the vocal harmonies.
Speaker B
I was wondering about that.
Speaker B
Because I noticed that.
Speaker A
Yeah, a lot of vocal harmonies do this.
Speaker A
So some parts go up while the melody's going down and vice versa.
Speaker A
Right.
Speaker A
And sometimes you get a harmony.
Speaker A
Like, uh, like Chet did this beautiful thing in, in Somewhere Over the Rainbow.
Speaker A
But then.
Speaker B
Yes.
Speaker A
Yeah.
Speaker B
You know.
Speaker A
It's very pianistic too.
Speaker A
Yeah, it's very Hollywood as well.
Speaker A
And there were so many incredible arrangers came out of, you know, the 30s, 40s, 50s in, in Hollywood movies.
Speaker A
And the music is, is truly amazing.
Speaker A
So, you know, I stole that idea immediately.
Speaker A
One day I'll wish upon a star.
Speaker A
And wake up where the clouds are far.
Speaker A
So forth.
Speaker A
Um, and I'm always looking for something that sounds vocal.
Speaker A
That's, that's, that that is a kind of sound.
Speaker A
Like it's written in stone.
Speaker A
The important thing to me is interpreting the melody properly.
Speaker A
What I learned, uh, through my life, thus far.
Speaker A
Is that if you want to learn a song and come up with an arrangement, you've got to learn the melody.
Speaker A
As the, as Chet would say, as the composer intended.
Speaker B
Yes.
Speaker A
So learn the melody properly first.
Speaker A
Um, don't go learning all the other fancy fancy stuff that that so many creative people do.
Speaker A
Learn the melody properly first.
Speaker A
Learn the right chords.
Speaker A
Then if you want to change it and make it your own thing, you can do that.
Speaker A
But you've got to learn the melody properly first.
Speaker A
People often say to me, how did you come up with this arrangement of classical gas?
Speaker A
Right.
Speaker A
So I learned the original, uh, from my friend Mason, hello Mason.
Speaker A
As a solo piece, it just took too long to get going.
Speaker A
The public, when when you're playing in bars and stuff like I was all those years ago.
Speaker A
Yeah, people have the attention span of a three-year-old.
Speaker B
You're being generous, I think, too.
Speaker A
You've got to.
Speaker A
You've got to keep it rocking and and you got things have to keep moving and grooving and and all that stuff.
Speaker A
You know.
Speaker A
So what I did is out of necessity, I changed everything about it.
Speaker A
And I purposely didn't play the, the original version.
Speaker A
Because it just didn't work as a solo piece.
Speaker A
I just took the iconic parts, which is.
Speaker A
Right.
Speaker A
And then.
Speaker A
Yeah.
Speaker A
Yeah.
Speaker A
The other three iconic parts.
Speaker A
Yeah.
Speaker A
So, um, I just built the rest of it around it.
Speaker A
And I just threw it out there.
Speaker A
You know.
Speaker A
Um, and and people loved it.
Speaker A
They responded straight away.
Speaker A
I always judge how something's going by audience response.
Speaker A
Because.
Speaker A
That's my job, I'm playing.
Speaker A
My job is to play for people.
Speaker A
I, I judge what my work is like and how I'm performing it, how, um, how it comes out.
Speaker A
By your response.
Speaker A
You know.
Speaker A
So you're, you're my, uh, you're my yard stick.
Speaker A
You're.
Speaker A
You're my quality control.
Speaker A
I'm talking to you out there.
Speaker A
You know.
Speaker B
If you take a song like Somewhere Over the Rainbow, that has such a sophisticated chord progression.
Speaker B
That versus if you're doing a, a Beatles song, for example, that may have a simpler chord progression.
Speaker B
You're always bringing different things in there, different techniques to, to make the, uh, the.
Speaker A
But the bottom line is, I'm still interpreting the melody correctly.
Speaker A
Hopefully.
Speaker B
Yes.
Speaker A
When I, when I play Lady Madonna.
Speaker B
Yeah.
Speaker A
My, my biggest decision is how do I want to make it feel?
Speaker A
Yeah.
Speaker A
You know, so I want the singing part to be like Paul McCartney.
Speaker A
Lady Madonna.
Speaker A
Right.
Speaker A
So.
Speaker A
How do you just play like that?
Speaker A
Without even, I mean, even warm up or anything.
Speaker A
I warmed up at 6:00 this morning.
Speaker B
Oh.
Speaker A
Um.
Speaker A
Now, I'm thinking like a singer.
Speaker A
When I, when I play, see, let's do a quick thing here.
Speaker A
Here's what happens.
Speaker A
When you're learning a new song that's complicated like Lady Madonna.
Speaker A
Yeah.
Speaker A
You don't play anything else.
Speaker A
Only that.
Speaker A
For at least until you can play it well.
Speaker A
You know.
Speaker B
Like how long would it take you to, to actually play, to, to do the bass and the melody together?
Speaker A
Well, I've been playing Lady Madonna, I'm trying to remember when I worked it out.
Speaker A
It was in the late 70s.
Speaker B
Yeah.
Speaker B
I've heard you, I've heard you play it for years.
Speaker A
I've played it many different ways and I play it differently now to what I did two years ago.
Speaker A
Mhm.
Speaker A
Uh, and I just played it a little differently then.
Speaker A
You know.
Speaker A
Um, so, which tells you that I, I'm free now.
Speaker A
I, I'm not, I'm not wrestling with the skill of playing this song.
Speaker A
Right.
Speaker A
What I'm doing is, um, I'm putting my, my mojo on the melody.
Speaker A
Yes.
Speaker A
Right, so all the rest of it is take, is all taken care of because I've played it enough.
Speaker A
But when you're working out something like this.
Speaker B
Yeah.
Speaker A
You're, it's not music yet.
Speaker A
It's skill.
Speaker A
Okay.
Speaker A
So you've got to work out carefully.
Speaker A
And people.
Speaker A
Don't want to do this.
Speaker A
But there is no other way.
Speaker B
No.
Speaker A
You've got to start out bar by bar, a little bit by little bit.
Speaker A
And and practice it and practice it and practice it.
Speaker A
Until it comes together and then something happens with our brain.
Speaker A
And what it is is.
Speaker A
Our attention suddenly goes to the melody and everything else starts to feel good.
Speaker A
But our attention goes to the melody.
Speaker A
Well, I shouldn't say we because.
Speaker A
I have to speak for myself because it may be different for you.
Speaker A
You know.
Speaker A
So our little gray cells.
Speaker A
How they work.
Speaker A
But so when I play Lady Madonna now, all I'm thinking about is how do I want to make it feel?
Speaker A
Right.
Speaker A
And and I enjoy it.
Speaker A
I love the song, it's so beautifully written.
Speaker A
As everything is with Paul McCartney.
Speaker A
You work out the skill of playing it and with enough playing.
Speaker A
And enough dedication, that skill turns to music.
Speaker A
And girls and boys, that's a great reason to get out of bed.
Speaker B
That is a great reason.
Speaker B
Okay, so I want to know though, what is hard for you to play?
Speaker B
Is there something that you're, oh man, that's hard.
Speaker A
A lot of the stuff that I write.
Speaker B
Yeah.
Speaker A
If I don't practice it.
Speaker A
I, I play it on stage and I come off going, what the hell was that?
Speaker A
You know.
Speaker A
Why aren't my hands doing what they're supposed to do?
Speaker A
I have nights where I come off stage mad at myself.
Speaker A
Because I haven't come up to where I need to be.
Speaker A
I'm, I'm trying to push myself.
Speaker A
You know.
Speaker A
And I realize, like if I listen to something I recorded 20 years ago.
Speaker A
I struggle with it today.
Speaker A
But back then, I was all over it.
Speaker A
I was just hosing the hell out of it.
Speaker A
And and it all came and and flowed and it sounded perfect.
Speaker A
The tuning was great.
Speaker A
The timing was good.
Speaker A
Okay, that's good.
Speaker A
And then, you know, today, if I don't play that song 10 times today.
Speaker A
I will struggle with it.
Speaker B
So that's the thing, it's like really keeping up on it.
Speaker B
Warming up, practicing and and playing.
Speaker A
Just playing the songs.
Speaker A
You know.
Speaker A
What was I playing this morning?
Speaker A
I was playing.
Speaker A
Um.
Speaker A
I was running over a song that I wrote with Chet Atkins, uh, a long time ago.
Speaker A
Because I wanted to put it into my show.
Speaker A
And tell the story.
Speaker A
Because it's an interesting story.
Speaker A
But, um.
Speaker A
I was running over it.
Speaker A
It's called Chet's Ramble.
Speaker A
I was just running it down.
Speaker A
Because, uh, there's a couple little parts in it that that needed some skill work.
Speaker A
And stuff like that.
Speaker B
Okay, when you say skill work, what does that mean?
Speaker B
That, that means like attention to detail?
Speaker A
Attention to detail.
Speaker A
Making sure that, that every move is, like there's a part in the song where there's a key change.
Speaker A
The song's in A.
Speaker A
There's a key change into C.
Speaker A
And it.
Speaker A
You know what I mean?
Speaker A
Just that move.
Speaker A
To get to that clean.
Speaker A
So that melody just does that.
Speaker A
Right.
Speaker A
And sounds like it has a life of its own.
Speaker A
So.
Speaker A
And like that.
Speaker A
And just milk that vibrato out.
Speaker A
And this thing just.
Speaker A
It just speaks, you know.
Speaker A
But you can't travel a lot with an instrument like that.
Speaker A
It's too fragile.
Speaker B
Yeah.
Speaker A
You know.
Speaker A
The Matons are awesome, they really are.
Speaker A
And, uh, when I was a kid in Australia.
Speaker A
What.
Speaker A
The people that we were idolized, you know, Chet Atkins.
Speaker A
Uh.
Speaker A
Glenn Campbell.
Speaker A
Yep.
Speaker A
Um.
Speaker A
Eric Clapton.
Speaker A
The Beatles.
Speaker A
Everybody had Gibsons, Martins and, uh, and Fenders.
Speaker A
You know.
Speaker A
Couple Rickenbackers in there.
Speaker A
And Gretsch.
Speaker A
Of course.
Speaker A
Chet, Chet was great.
Speaker A
And Rickenbackers too.
Speaker A
Yeah.
Speaker A
My first good guitar was an Australian made Maton.
Speaker A
Which is in their factory.
Speaker A
And, uh, where I'll probably, I'll be stuffed and mounted in the factory there.
Speaker A
You know.
Topics:Tommy Emmanuelacoustic guitarguitar techniquesmusic arrangementjazz harmonyChet Atkinssong interpretationguitar interviewRick Beatomusical expression
