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Ditch Diggers season 10 episode. [Music] One. Ditch Diggers appear, and ain't no one here with some not-so-nice advice. So, your writing career, to be clear, no punches will be pulled, but the punch may be spiked. How they like before.
Mur Lafferty discusses book tours, social media challenges, and writing career realities on Ditch Diggers podcast.
Key Takeaways
- Book tours can be financially unpredictable but sometimes profitable.
- Modern book tours often include interactive panels rather than simple author talks.
- Social media presence is important but can be challenging and time-consuming for authors.
- Streaming and podcasting are valuable but require effort and learning.
- Community and local bookstores play a key role in supporting authors.
What the video covers
- Hosts Mur Lafferty and Ursula discuss the ups and downs of book tours, including financial aspects and personal experiences.
- They reflect on the evolving format of book tours, such as authors in conversation panels to engage audiences.
- Mur shares her experience with a recent book tour and clarifies previous financial miscalculations.
- Discussion includes the impact of social media platforms like Twitter and Threads on authors and their careers.
- They touch on the challenges of streaming and podcasting as complementary author activities.
- The hosts talk about managing public expectations and the realities behind author events and promotions.
- They mention local bookstore events and the importance of community support for authors.
- There is commentary on writing advice trends, such as the rejection of absolutes in storytelling.
- The episode includes personal anecdotes about balancing writing, touring, and personal life.
- Overall, the conversation provides candid insights into the writing profession and author marketing.
Chapters
- 00:00Introduction and Host Banter
- 02:04Book Tour Financials and Experiences
- 04:07Publisher Royalties and Book Sales
- 06:12Travel and Event Logistics
- 08:18Modern Book Tour Formats
- 10:18Local Bookstore Events
- 12:24Social Media and Threads Discussion
- 14:30Streaming Challenges and Podcasting
- 17:24Writing Advice and Personal Anecdotes
Full Transcript — Download SRT & Markdown
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they get on the m to my left we got the mighty Mery and if I piss her off believe me she'll come after me and her co-host Ur on the right yes she's furniture aside a slim M Beach tonight
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They get on the mic. To my left, we got the mighty Mary, and if I piss her off, believe me, she'll come after me and her co-host. You're on the right. Yes, she's furniture aside, a slim M. Beach tonight.
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[Music] diggers ditch diggers and uh I forgot last time to say we were coming to you from some sort of place in the ditch diggers Manor so I suppose this week we're coming to you from the office of retractions in the
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So settle in, folks. Buckle in. It’s Buddha time to meddle in a way to make your writer shut up. It's hard work, but the perk is that it's fun and exciting. Facebook will still be there when you're done writing.
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go somewhere or have an appointment and honestly it's uh it's it's almost terrifying MH yeah same here I don't have uh a trip for for many many many weeks so for like the first time since March that'll be I'm not looking to the
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[Music] Diggers, ditch diggers, and uh, I forgot last time to say we were coming to you from some sort of place in the Ditch Diggers Manor. So, I suppose this week we're coming to you from the office of retractions in the
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think I can survive it because well speaking of book tours yes uh that was in fact what the retraction I need to make is about I did my math wrong last time uh I'm I had a decimal place off so
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Ditch Digger's manor. So, how at least the office of accounting? Yes, how are you, Ursula? I am good. I am doing well. I have a week where I have nothing scheduled except writing and just normal every day is normal, and I don't have to
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tour her which is great because I had been thinking oh God they did terrible they'll never send me on tour again uh but they did awesome and I instead of getting 1,300 bucks got will in theory someday get
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go somewhere or have an appointment. And honestly, it's almost terrifying. MH, yeah, same here. I don't have a trip for many, many, many weeks, so for like the first time since March, that'll be. I'm not looking to the
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pay for Kevin's plane ticket which was 6,000 Australian uh well well it was round trip and then we had all these little other plane jumps and whatnot and then my agent takes 15% but the point is at some point I will probably get like
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next trip, and so I don't know if I'll ever survive a book tour. I don't know if I'll ever be big enough to need a book tour, but if they ever want to send me on one, I don't
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about book tours not necessarily being profitable sometimes they are sometimes they aren't but that one was congrat also I was just uh mcing a uh uh a book tour that came through uh our town and I with had uh uh Veronica Roth Neo uh and
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think I can survive it. Because, well, speaking of book tours, yes, that was in fact what the retraction I need to make is about. I did my math wrong last time. I had a decimal place off, so
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uh uh they do a thing a lot these days where it's like authors in conversation they realize just having an author sit on stage and and talk is boring yeah so uh and also by like the fourth day of
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my publisher actually probably made like, well, okay, between my publisher and my bookseller, they made like 130 grand off that, which they then split because it's 50% royalty. So, they actually did really well off the book
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come interview this panel of four authors so I did it was fabulous and uh uh but that is a thing that sometimes you get to do on book tours or you get to do if you're not on the book tour and
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tour, which is great because I had been thinking, oh God, they did terrible. They'll never send me on tour again. But they did awesome, and instead of getting 1,300 bucks, got, well, in theory, someday get
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on your last one yeah yeah and and uh I don't think I told you this McIntyre for the last one McIntyre's books want um us to do something together McIntyre's books in uh Hill in chadam County yeah I
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13,000, except it's in Australian, which is two-thirds of the US. So, that's not—I'm not going to try to do math again because that's what got me in trouble last time. But also, I had to
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event so uh that's that's going to happen so if you're in North watch this space watch this space mcintyres is uh a really neat small local bookstore very kind like really treats their local authors well so um yeah I missed I was
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pay for Kevin's plane ticket, which was 6,000 Australian. Well, it was round trip, and then we had all these little other plane jumps and whatnot, and then my agent takes 15%. But the point is, at some point, I will probably get like
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Now by a long shot but still I it would be unethical yeah exactly so I had to pull out of that I felt bad but um yeah still better not to make everybody at the convention ill um yeah so we don't have a whole lot to
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three grand in like eight months or a year, and that's pretty awesome for two weeks of getting to go to Australia. Yeah, yeah, no kidding. That's pretty awesome. Yeah, I, yes, so I take back what I said
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on threads like I have an account there but I look like I look at it once a week maybe but a lot of other authors are much more active there uh Chuck wendig and schaly are both fairly active there
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about book tours not necessarily being profitable. Sometimes they are, sometimes they aren't, but that one was. Congrats. Also, I was just MCing a book tour that came through our town, and I had Veronica Roth, Neo, and
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thank you folks I do not know what to do in this situation this is the problem with streaming being self-taught so um I'm very sorry don't know what is happening or what to do so if anybody ever as if any of you streamers
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two people named Rachel and Andrea, and I've forgotten both of their last names off the top of my head. Andrea was much cooler than I will ever be in my life. But every now and again, you get
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that somebody was posting about uh uh more absolutes which anybody who listens to I should be writing knows I hate absolutes um is that first wait third person's out past tense third person is out past tense is out and uh you have to be on
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they do a thing a lot these days where it's like authors in conversation. They realize just having an author sit on stage and talk is boring. Yeah, so, and also by like the fourth day of
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well you know this is good but you know what M third person is so out you're like wearing after Labor Day you're just not cool anymore so you got to change the whole book and it kind of reminds me
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book tour, the author's eyes are twirling in opposite directions, and in question, they haven't heard yet. Yes, so they started, you know, having other authors show up to interview them. And this time, they were like, hey Ursula, you're local,
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had been unfashionable in the chest region for the last decade or so uh there's not a damn thing I can do about it what am I supposed to go to a plastic surgeon and change them out according to
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come interview this panel of four authors. So I did. It was fabulous. And, but that is a thing that sometimes you get to do on book tours, or you get to do if you're not on the book tour, and
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think it's like I've been working on training my dog not to be reactive for several years now and we're getting there but still you know she hears something and anybody who knows a dog knows that look it's like Snap to
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I recommend it highly. It's fun. Yeah, it is fun. Hopefully you and I can meet up again. I think we've just not been hitting right our last couple of releases because you were deep into chemo, I guess, when I had my last
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will eat it Y and even when you're like look that is the male person and you know what I am in charge here and I'm not worried so maybe you shouldn't somebody explained um trying to get your dog to calm down when they're like that
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on your last one. Yeah, yeah. And I don't think I told you this. McIntyre for the last one, McIntyre's Books want us to do something together. McIntyre's Books in Hill in Chatham County. Yeah,
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your times tables probably not so it's just this it's the reactivity thing and I think people who say stuff like this don't give a crap about what they're saying they don't give a they're just saying what they think will get us
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I know them. I know, you know them. I'm saying this for the benefit of anybody else. Sorry. Yeah, yeah, I apologize. I forgot that we're doing this for an audience. Yes, yes, yes. McIntyre's Books wants us to do some sort of
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so they're like happy when they get people angry because they're getting attention and and that's the thing that baffles me because people say like you know any publicity is good publicity no it's definitely not true uh uh where is
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event, so that's going to happen. So if you're in North, watch this space. Watch this space. McIntyre's is a really neat small local bookstore, very kind, like really treats their local authors well. So, yeah, I missed. I was
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doing it so people pay attention to you is uh I mean people do weird things I don't understand it but the point is getting people mad at you does not sell your book to them so if you are trying
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supposed to be part of their crime event, and then my husband got COVID, so I'm like, well, I don't have COVID, but I'm living with someone with COVID, and I could be just—I guess it's not patient zero
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myself a big reaction photo like I I found out all of that started with Mr Beast and so you know you look on YouTube and you see people's faces like and what they're doing is they're reacting to the latest main character on
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now by a long shot, but still, it would be unethical. Yeah, exactly. So I had to pull out of that. I felt bad, but yeah, still better not to make everybody at the convention ill. Yeah, so we don't have a whole lot to
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to book talk I thought about being part of book talk be on book talk is like I don't know wear clothes are you going to do what people are going to be interested in no one's going to tell you
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talk about that are planned, but I asked Ursula what was going on, and she mentioned what's the new thing people are mad about on Threads, which I have avoided. So I'm not on Threads, but Ursula is, so I'm not really
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and there's this one woman speaking of big breast being in it's like I don't want to I'm not trying to Kink shame or body shame anybody but her book talk was featuring her bouncing chest heavily heavily I mean it
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on Threads. Like, I have an account there, but I look at it once a week maybe. But a lot of other authors are much more active there. Chuck Wendig and Schaly are both fairly active there.
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imagine I can't do that it it just makes me feel completely disingenuous and maybe that's why my podcasts aren't bigger or whatever because I don't go for whatever is hot I've seen people I'm a big fan of the the uh Barbara rhubarb
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And so I go over. Unfortunately, it was at this point that the feed stopped feeding and the audio stopped recording, so we're going to have a little bit of technical difficulties, and then we'll be right [Music] back. Okay, Ve of V Cat says we're back.
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thinking I don't understand this world just can me my cane and my dentures because I'm and some clouds to yell at and some clouds to yell at I've got a cloud to yell at I've got a podcast so
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Thank you, folks. I do not know what to do in this situation. This is the problem with streaming being self-taught. So, I'm very sorry. Don't know what is happening or what to do. So if anybody ever, as if any of you streamers
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Twitter I had like 60,000 followers or whatever uh some of them probably weren't Bots I have never figured out how to monetize that in any way that is like that would justify the amount of work doing it I was on twiter because I
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know, let me know what I'm supposed to do in that case because everything looked okay on my end, and if it didn't look okay on my end, I still don't know what I would do. But anyway, Ursula was saying
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you which great but I have never figured out how that translated into money and uh and for some people maybe it doesn't maybe it's just a hobby I want you know 110 million people to follow me because that's my hobby which
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that somebody was posting about more absolutes, which anybody who listens to I Should Be Writing knows I hate absolutes. Is that first—wait, third person's out? Past tense, third person is out? Past tense is out? And you have to be on
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yeah a lot of it and so I I don't know like and it is it is entirely possible that there are people monetizing Tik Tok in ways I am completely unfamiliar with and if so more power to them like you
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BookTok? Okay, so one and two, no, that's just not true. It's not true. It's like you don't get—there's not like a fashion thing like, I'm going to write a book in third person, and my editor's going to be like,
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of salanka aka the L what pair yes uh I did the original art back in 2005 and then at some point it escaped in the wild and became a meme and uh there the only way I could figure out
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well, you know, this is good, but you know what? Third person is so out. You're like wearing after Labor Day. You're just not cool anymore, so you got to change the whole book. And it kind of reminds me
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I probably made a good thousand bucks in pins this is not a uh uh have a weird piece of art you did go viral however not what I would call a um viable career path yeah kind kind of I'm sure the person who
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like maybe a decade ago, because that's how often I pay attention to fashion, there was a headline that went by that was big boobs are in, and I'm like, thank you. I did not realize that I
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supposed to be like this oh God yeah yeah oh well you know life I I don't know I will yell at the clouds with you I there's there has to be some way that people are making money off this that I
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had been unfashionable in the chest region for the last decade or so. There's not a damn thing I can do about it. What am I supposed to go to a plastic surgeon and change them out according to
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know does that happen on on Tik Tok do they give you ad money there I think so you might be right this is this is how little I know about it I'll have to ask Grant um a friend of mine's fairly big
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Labor Day? Yeah, yeah, yeah. The same for me. It's like, oh, suddenly I shouldn't go out in public because my chest is not in. I just, yeah, it's that kind of thing. It's just weird. But what gets me is it
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one but um one of the big things that I've I've seen just uh on the outside with the algorithm changing stuff is that it never rely on that money as it as being permanent because so many people like I was getting you know
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this made me think it's like I've been working on training my dog not to be reactive for several years now, and we're getting there, but still, you know, she hears something, and anybody who knows a dog knows that look, it's like snap to
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apparently the only way that people are going to see this is if you uh update at least once a week with a video thing or something I don't know it was a few years ago I don't even yeah it's uh uh
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attention, eyes are wide, ears are perked, and then, you know, it's like you can hear it coming. Here comes the barrage of barks and outrage and running up to the window. And where is the threat? I
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it is a skill that they are using and knowledge that they have and I have neither yeah I think my um from chat we have banks are super understanding understanding about I can't pay my mortgage this month because
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will eat it. And even when you're like, look, that is the male person, and you know what? I am in charge here, and I'm not worried, so maybe you shouldn't. Somebody explained trying to get your dog to
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uh saying I don't understand thing um we are both online we became Pros after the what I think is probably the China mavil Event Horizon China mavil says he's the last science fiction author at least who was able to build a career with no
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social media exposure at all and pretty much the thought is everybody who came after China mavil which I guess was around 2005 PTO Street Station somewhere around there uh no it had to be before that because I remember reading it on my
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couch but hey I have the internet hey oh I don't clearly okay anyway but I remember that was something China Mel said that he did not have um Twitter or Facebook presence because 2000 2000 wow that was quarter of a century ago pardon
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me while I go and no I already got my dentures I said that earlier I have I I don't know really this is more of a frustration with me because I won't play musky boys games um and so I left Twitter I did not
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officially leave although they might kick me off I don't remember the last time I logged in um I don't want I don't know about threads I don't want to join Facebook for the third time but I realize that Facebook already has stuff
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from me because I do have Instagram um when you're good at writing things and not much else it's hard to think about what to put on a photo site or video site for some reason podcasting and streaming feels like it's separate
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to me like I don't worry when I turn on the camera to do this stream but if I suddenly turn on my phone camera to do a short video I freeze and freak out and suddenly everything is bad about my
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appearance and my lighting and everything and I think I'm going if I go and try to look more camera ready I will use that time in getting ready to talk myself out of doing it in the first place so the uh
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the trend I hate the most with conventions is that a lot of them now are like can you record a short video saying you're G to be there to advertise it and one of them asked me that recently and I just sent back no I will
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do anything else you want but I will not do that like I will I will draw you pictures I will write you a short story I will do whatever but I I am not recording a video and the contair
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actually sent back yeah I hate doing those too my marketing guy just asked me to ask no problem thank you uh okay so what about yeah if you uh if someone messaged you and said um I want you to
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do a video but I'm going to just call you up on Zoom or meet and just record you saying so you all you have to do is like sit down and talk or is it still being in front of camera that
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stress um I don't mind doing like Zoom interviews uh with people that sort of thing uh I don't mind doing panels on Zoom which I have done I have generally found those fun but it's uh it is just
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me alone in front of a camera where I have to set up the stuff and like rig up my camera on the tripod I'm just like oh God this is such yeah it's yeah and and I again old woman yells at
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Clouds but I hated the pivot to video I will spend 20 minutes looking for something written down like a if I'm looking for how to do something I will spend 10 minutes looking or 20 minutes looking for written instructions rather
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than watch a 10-minute video yeah like I know it takes more time but I'm gonna need to like I'm not just GNA go back and forth on the video over and over again I I the way that I have to on
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instructions with text it my brain does not function that way and I hate it yeah and while I'm complaining uh kids these days with their music and their their bbop and uh yeah okay I'm out they bbop yeah
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they bbop anyway we've not actually talked about wait have we talked about the business of writing maybe it's the the business of Tik Tok is not automatically the business of writing and if anyone tells you you have to be
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on book talk they are aying liar what lies actually let's take a break we've got a ad coming even though I ran one early it apparently still is not going to help so there's apparently an ad break now all right we are
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back um so yeah if we have any advice about this the actual business of writing it it the advice is what it's always been at least from me which is if you're having fun do it and if you're
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not having fun don't stress about it cuz you know if you're stressing about something it should be making your book better um or you know doing whatever marketing that your publisher is not doing for you um because I I was
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thinking about this and I realized I started on Twitch four years ago and um it has done pretty much except for the people I've met who you know have have enriched my life or helped my career in other ways streaming itself has not
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helped my career I've not built a huge following here it's um you know it it hasn't done anything but I really love it and I have a lot of fun and that makes it worth it to me so
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I'm continuing to work on Twitch even though if you look at my numbers you'd think why the hell are you doing this you're not getting anything but um I am getting something and that's I'm enjoying myself and I think that that
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makes me make better content um and if people don't agree then well it's free and there's a lot of other stuff out there that's also free it was like it's like I was on Twitter it was you know I
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enjoyed being there I enjoyed the format and I was having fun so uh and and I do think that if you're going to use social media uh using it because you're being forced to because either you feel you have to
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because somebody told you you have to be on X what I can't even use x as like the standin for an unknown anymore I damn you musk uh you have to be on platform y or uh you know whatever is no
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that'll just stress you out and uh it's you don't make good stuff when you're stressed out and like there are it is better I have found on social media to not do it than to do it badly because how many people do we know
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on social media who have managed to make an absolute blithering ass of themselves and I'm not saying that I am immune from that but uh it it would be better if they just didn't do social media and if it's not
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making them happy and if it's making them miserable it would be twice as better if they didn't do so from there that's my math twice as better I I have to admit back in the Heyday of Twitter um there was somebody who I was
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I was following and a friend was following and the person was I won't give any details but so bad at it that we used to demand a dollar from each other because it's like oh God I looked at this person's stream it's
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like you got to put a dollar in the jar man you know you're not supposed to do that um and I think it's unfair to tell people just get on book book talk everyone must get on book talk what does
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that mean specifically what does that mean in regards to my career does it involve planning lighting makeup a script does it plan does does it involve the latest filters the latest hot songs what does that mean because just
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get on book talk that tells me nothing nothing yeah and for a lot of us particularly those of us who Who present as female uh putting your image out there on the internet is a you know people are not nice if you do not
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fall into the conventionally attractive mold and so if I was going to do it I'd be doing it with puppets you know or or uh on a stick having a conversation kind of thing about books which would in fact
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probably do well now that I'm thinking about it and I could make it really cool but I have enough going on in my life uh yeah it's a uh yeah I do what makes you happy like being on
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book talk will not give you a career if you don't have one I'm pretty sure it might if it will then you're probably already there making your career I mean yes us telling you right now go get on
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book talk right now it's it's that that's worth nothing that that advice is worth zero and also like adverbs whatever point of view you choose whatever tense you use in a book it's all a tool every single thing is a
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tool and you can use it poorly or you can use it well somebody's saying up hammers are out can't use hammers anymore I mean go go tell a carpenter can't use hammers anymore oh Phillips Phillips screws loser don't use those nobody uses
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those anymore I I have used a butter knife to as a screwdriver so many times in my life is it because someone cool told you the screwdrivers were out no it's because I couldn't find a goddamn screwdriver and I know where the
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butter knife is see I I really actually don't know the point we're trying to make here but I think you I've lost it too yes okay uh uh what was I saying earlier metaphors are like Hammers and sometimes everything looks like a nail
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yeah I think that before we started recording that was good yes so uh uh what are you working on right now M I have book edits to do I have many book edits oh God I'm sorry yeah yeah and
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um you know I I'm pretty sure I'm going to be working from Tomorrow straight until I hit deadline um because like I said we just did the final trip in a while and it was a very stressful weekend trip where my kid graduated from
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college again I'm so very thrilled they graduated with like honors and sumokun L and and la la or latte or whatever it is see I don't know what it is cuz I did not get anywhere close to that when I
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graduated and F Beta Kappa and just bunch of bunch of Latin words very proud very proud of the kid but um it was the the the ceremony was 55 degrees and raining and outside and and there was this like
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graveyard of we looked online so there was a graveyard of uh umbrellas near the entrance because they would not allow you to bring in an umbrella and some people decided by God it is May and my kid is graduating from
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college I am going to dress as if it is May and I'm celebrating something not as if it is 55° and raining so um there were people there in like summer dresses it was they were very pretty very very
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Goose pimpley as well but um anyway that has been my main focus for quite some time and now that I'm home I can focus on other things like getting this book done and hopefully get it done in time
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um also I don't think I've mentioned this um I'm going to need some minor surgery soon and I'm just trying to figure out how to fit that in with this whole book deadline thing but it's really an annoying when the health
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issues do not schedule around your deadline like I was like you know okay I can probably work this cancer thing in in 2026 uh like uh can you take a number and then they don't yeah mine technically is elective
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but it's like elective and going to happen at some point might as well get it done before it becomes um required so yes that's it um so yeah I book Ed it's SCH recovering from trip and scheduling uh minor
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surgery how about you Ursula what are you up to uh I am just gonna sit and write like on this book which is due in August and I am over halfway done and nice I'm enjoying it and it's going
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fairly easily which is so rare and waiting for the other shoe to drop I really am uh at some point I'm going to hit the uh this is the worst book ever written I need Kevin to read it to see
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if it shames my ancestors but normally I hit that at about the 60% Mark and I haven't hit it yet and it's at like 78,000 words so I'm afraid that either uh I will not hit it well it would be
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great if I didn't hit it or worse this book is so long I am not yet at the 60% Mark which would be horrifying so uh yeah yeah well don't want to hand in a door stop yeah yeah this is something we could probably
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talk about later um because I know if I get you on the topic of fonts you're just going to run off um but uh not necessarily I I I love a good font speaking of mcintyres I was I was
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signing a bunch of my books at once and I hadn't really looked at like the shambling guides and six wakes and uh the mids solar murders books like next to each other and I'm pretty sure six wakes looks fatter than station etern
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station attor is the longest book I've ever written station attorney was like 125 130 font size has shrunk significantly I can no longer read physical books that have come out recently including my own because they keep shrinking the font
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size great that's why I read everything in ebook because I have to make the font bigger uh and it's because paper is expensive ink is cheap paper is expensive oh well okay and paper has been expensive since the pandemic so
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they're trying to fit uh more book into less space so I should probably write shorter books and then they might be readable uh why people over 45 yeah and if you if you you know write novelas and I love the Nolla I've
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written many novelas but uh someone there will always be a negative review that's like it's fine but it's really short it's almost a Nolla you're like I it's on the cover I did you did did did you look at the price of
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regular books versus nelas I mean that's also a clue I did actually have someone write in once to tell me are you aware of how much they are selling your hard cover novelas for because I can't afford that
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and I'm like I I I'm afraid I do not set the price for a hard cover novela that like like your at school do you know this you should fix this I like I um the library is a great resource there are
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online lending I recommend you use them highly I love the library so that's that's all I got yeah because yeah I agree but you know life indeed well uh I think I am done I'm going to go take a migraine pill before
Speaker A
this headache turns into a migraine and maybe hydrate and get some food or something I don't know pretty wrecked after the drive yesterday but where yeah you're recording after a 14-hour drive that this is amazing this is this is the Iron Man ditch diggers
Speaker A
yes indeed um you can find me at mv.com and search for my laferty or Mighty myr on most platforms and if you don't see it I'm not there that's pretty easy it's myrr with one R just like half of murder
Speaker A
it's really easy Ursula where do we find you you have two I do uh te king fisher is the one that you're most likely to encounter professionally these days uh the there's a t King Fisher website I believe it
Speaker A
redirects to Red wbat Studio though which is where you can see all my books if you want to talk to me online blue sky is the easiest I'm also te king fisher there this episode of ditch diggers was
Speaker A
brought to you by the fabulous you could be a fabulous too if you support the patreon at patreon.com Mighty or you can also Support over at twitch twitch.tv/ Mighty or you can support my substack at mighty. substack docomo spice you can find out more about
Speaker A
him at divos spice.com this podcast is released under a Creative Commons attribution non-commercial node derivatives 4.0 license art by numbers ninja hosting by libson and you can see the archives ate.com thanks for listening
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