Speaker A
And we'll bring up Alex. Welcome, Eric. Alex. Yo, what's up? Hey, man. Good to have you here, bro.
A theological debate between Alex Sorin and Eric on salvation assurance, penal substitutionary atonement, and scriptural interpretation.
Ask about this video. Answers come from its transcript only — with the timestamp, so you can check them.
Generated from the transcript and can be wrong — check the timestamp.
Key Takeaways
- Assurance of salvation is debated with differing views on biblical certainty versus hope.
- Interpretations of Hebrews 10 and the concept of willful sinning are central to the disagreement.
- The role of sacraments, especially confession, is highlighted as important for Orthodox theology.
- Contextual scripture reading is emphasized to avoid misinterpretation.
- The debate reflects broader theological differences between Orthodox and evangelical perspectives.
What the video covers
- Alex Sorin, an Orthodox Christian YouTuber, joins Eric's live stream to discuss theological differences.
- The main topics include assurance of salvation, penal substitutionary atonement, and scriptural interpretations.
- Eric argues Paul had certainty about salvation, citing 2 Timothy 4:18, while Alex suggests Paul had hope but struggled with assurance.
- They debate the meaning of sinning willfully after receiving the knowledge of truth, referencing Hebrews 10.
- Eric emphasizes the role of sacraments like confession as a remedy for willful sinning.
- Alex challenges Eric's interpretation of verses about works disqualifying from salvation, such as Titus 1:16.
- The discussion covers the difference between professing to know God and truly knowing God.
- There is a focus on contextual reading of scripture rather than isolated verses.
- The conversation touches on the historical practice of confession in the church.
- The debate ends with Eric muting and removing Alex from the live stream.
Chapters
- 00:00Introduction and greetings
- 00:43Discussion on assurance of salvation
- 01:25Paul's certainty about salvation - 2 Timothy 4:18
- 02:16Paul's ministry and disqualification - 1 Corinthians 9
- 03:17Titus 1 and works disqualifying salvation
- 04:07Professing vs. truly knowing God
- 04:54Hebrews 10 and willful sinning debate
- 06:36Sacraments and confession as remedy
- 09:02Historical practice of confession in the church
- 12:40Conclusion and removal from stream
Full Transcript — Download SRT & Markdown
Speaker A
Yeah. Um, you doing today? Well, I want to be open from the get-go here. I am a YouTuber and I post Orthodox content. So, I'm an Orthodox Christian. And I guess I'll get straight to the point to adhere to the rules that
Speaker A
you have here. I have a problem with your character race. And can you turn your camera on? Is that possible or no?
Speaker A
Uh, sure. I'm also live streaming. So, yeah, there you go. Hey, man. Nice to meet you.
Speaker A
How are you? Yeah, not bad. Not bad. Yeah. So, maybe I'll ask you then. So, how sure are you out of a hundred you're going to heaven?
Speaker A
Uh, well, I am saved. I am being saved and I will be saved. Uh, I don't think assurance is something that's guaranteed. But again, uh, my problem with you is your characterization of penal substitutionary atonement.
Speaker A
If you want to talk about assurance, that's fine. 100. Like what do you think?
Speaker A
Uh, I'm pretty sure, uh, 0 to 100. Uh, I guess I can't say 100.
Speaker A
You can't say 100. Okay. Oh, hold on. I have an issue. Do you think Paul could say 100?
Speaker A
Uh, no. I don't think he did. Really? I think he did. Let's have a look at it. Second Timothy 4 verse 18.
Speaker A
He says this, "The Lord will rescue me from every evil deed and bring me safely into his heavenly kingdom. To him be the glory forever and ever. Amen." So Paul was sure about where he was going. He knew that the Lord will bring him safely
Speaker A
into his heavenly kingdom. Yeah. I think a better way to look at that is that he has a hope that Christ will bring him into the kingdom because there are other places in Paul's epistles where he very clearly struggles
Speaker A
uh with his salvation. That you can't just like pick one verse. He's not thinking, look, I'm not sure if God's going to let me end. This is an absolute certainty. In fact, the Bible says we can know. I brought this up
Speaker A
earlier on that I write these things to you who believe in the name of the Son of God that you may know that you have eternal life. And so, if you're like, "Well, I'm not sure. I could I could sin
Speaker A
tomorrow. I could end up in hell." Then you don't know you have eternal life.
Speaker A
Uh, well, if you look at 1 Corinthians 9, because I'll admit I wasn't prepared to discuss this topic. I didn't want to talk to you about PSA cuz that was the topic that you were talking about right before I
Speaker A
came on, uh, came on here. But he talks about like disciplining his body and bringing it into subjection so that he will not be disqualified after preaching. Uh, there are a bunch of things and when he talks to Titus
Speaker A
qualified from salvation here but disqualified from ministry. If you have a look at this entire context here, he's saying like to the weak I became the weak that I might win the weak. I become all things to all people that by any all
Speaker A
means possible I might save some. And so he's talking about in his ministry he's making sure that his body is not going astray into sin lest he be disqualified because if you do give over to sin then it can disqualify the effectiveness of
Speaker A
your ministry quite a lot. So I just don't see anything in what Paul's saying where he's like I'm not sure where I'm going to go when I die.
Speaker A
So fine I'll concede that point certainty of salvation. I'll concede that that point is about his office. What do you have to say about in Titus where he talks about people were disqualified from salvation by their, uh, actions
Speaker A
in Titus one? What are you talking about in Titus 1? 16. Who are you talking about?
Speaker A
Yeah, I don't have the it's Titus chapter 1. I don't have the exact verse citation off the top of my head, but here, let me pull it up.
Speaker A
Uh, they profess to know God, but they deny him by his works. Yeah. Yeah. 16. Yeah. So, they, yep. So, they, they profess to know God. They profess to be a Christian or know God in some sense, but their actions deny him.
Speaker A
Yeah. So, their actions disqualify them from knowing God. Oh, no. No. It's saying they profess.
Speaker A
It's professing to know God is different to actually truly knowing God. So that verse doesn't support your case either.
Speaker A
Well, okay. What is he supposed to say? That they know God, but then they don't know God because of their works? Cuz in Hebrews 10, St. Paul does explicitly say that it's saying here they profess to know God. There's people that profess to know
Speaker A
God. Even Mormons profess to know God, right? But that doesn't mean they actually truly know God. If they deny the Trinity, they don't really know God.
Speaker A
But they're professing to know him. So you don't think that, uh, your works disqualify you from salvation?
Speaker A
No. Because I know that in Romans 8:1 it tells us that there is therefore now no condemnation for those who are in Christ Jesus.
Speaker A
If Christ paid for his sin. So how do you, uh, uh, bring that together with Hebrews? I think it's, I think it's Hebrews chapter 10. Again, I don't have the citation off the top of my head cuz I'm
Speaker A
doing this a bit off the cuff here that says that there are those that have tasted of the Holy Spirit and they have fallen away and that if you continue to sin, uh, intentionally or willfully that there is no sacrifice left for you.
Speaker A
Yeah. In Hebrews 10:26, what you're referring to there is referring to the sin of rejecting Jesus. Right. Because the, he's making the contrast here between the animal sacrifice. You look at verse four of the chapter. It is impossible for the blood of bulls and
Speaker A
goats to take away sins. Have a look at verse 11 when he says, "Every priest stands daily at his service offering repeatedly the same sacrifices which can never take away sins. But when Christ had offered for all time a single
Speaker A
sacrifice for sins, he sat down at the right hand of God." So he's the Hebrews are feeling tempted to go back to Judaism and reject Christ. And he's saying, "Look, if you deliberately go ahead and do that, it's a sin, right? to
Speaker A
go and deliberately reject Christ, go back to Judaism, there's no sacrifice left because I've already, he's made clear that the animal sacrifices cannot save you. And if you reject the once for all sacrifice of Christ, you got no
Speaker A
hope. You just got hell to come. So this says if we sin willfully after we have received the knowledge of the truth, there no longer remains a sacrifice for sins. You're telling me that this doesn't mean if you sin
Speaker A
willfully, this means if you reject Jesus, which sin are we talking about? The sin of rejecting Jesus. That's a sin.
Speaker A
Correct. To reject Jesus. Yes. But this is not specific language. This is just if you sin willfully after we have received the knowledge of truth.
Speaker A
Got to read things in context. Have you read the entire chapter of Hebrews 10?
Speaker A
Of course. I've read it multiple times. But, but I don't think that you can.
Speaker A
Alex, have you ever done a sin willfully? Uh, yes, of course. Right. So after coming to the knowledge of the truth, you've done a sin willfully.
Speaker A
Yes. Taking your interpretation then, man, there's no sacrifice for you. That means you must be going to hell. Well, that's what we have the sacraments for, for confession and we have tangible means of remedying these. There's no sacrifice you can't go to
Speaker A
confession if there's no sacrifice for you. If the sacrifice of Christ is null and void for you because you've sinned willfully after coming to Christ then, man, how you're interpreting this means that you've got no hope you must be gone
Speaker A
to hell based on your interpretation of this verse. Well, because you can't take one verse at a time. You know Paul also teaches us that things in context.
Speaker A
Yes, of course. So, if you can't take a verse from earlier in the chapter, you can't take a verse from earlier in the chapter to obfuscate a general term later in the chapter. It very clearly says if you sin willfully, you can't
Speaker A
restrict the term to what you want it to be. Earlier in the chapter, it's talking about sacrifices and, uh, you've sinned.
Speaker A
If you sin willfully, if you sin deliberately after receiving the knowledge of the truth, then therefore, what's going to come for you? What it means there's no.
Speaker A
Yeah. And it's by virtue of your actions and a fury of fire that's going to consume the adversaries. That's what's coming your way based on how you're interpreting this verse.
Speaker A
By virtue of your actions. Yeah. That's what it says. Yeah. Well then, man, you're lost. Then if you got if you've got no longer Jesus, he can't he's not going to help you cuz there's no sacrifice left. Jesus
Speaker A
won't help you. That's what the sacraments are for. So we have a concrete means of remedying these sins.
Speaker A
Say that if the sacrifice of Jesus is null and void. Well, because you keep interrupting me, you're not letting me talk about the greater context. Cuz in Romans, Paul says that if we confess our sins, then God is good and he forgives
Speaker A
us. So now you're not going to take the context of Hebrews. You're going to go to a different book. The context, of course, you have to take the apostolic deposit as a whole. I understand. But you notice you're not
Speaker A
actually you said this was a general principle here but now you're not actually taking it as a general principle and saying well actually if you go do a sacrament now you do have a sacrifice of sense but I thought
Speaker A
because you have to take the apostolic deposit as a whole sacrifice left. So where does does the Bible ever say that if you've lost the sacrifice of Jesus if you do a sacrament you then regain the sacrifice of Jesus?
Speaker A
Yes. When Paul says that if you confess your sins, he is good to forgive you.
Speaker A
Paul doesn't say that. Of course he does. No, you first John 1:9. I'm not sure how much of the Bible you know, sir, but my encouragement is to ask yourself, does the Bible say that salvation Okay, so I got the citation wrong, but
Speaker A
that is in the text. Yeah, it's it's John. It's not Paul. Yeah. 1 John 1:9. If we confess our sin, if we confess our sins, he is faithful and just and will forgive us our sins and purify us from all unrighteousness.
Speaker A
So, you can't take just one verse. You have to take the apostolic deposit as a whole. And this is what I think is lacking in your view, Ryan, is that you have no concrete means, excuse me, excuse me. You have no concrete means
Speaker A
for uh repentance. It uh well, here, let me pull it up. Doesn't say that. Doesn't say anything about going to a priest, having what does it say?
Speaker A
Well, it doesn't say anything about God. It just says if we confess our sins.
Speaker A
Okay. And who do you confess it to? Well, if we say we have no sin, we deceive ourselves and the truth is not in us. So, people claim that they're without sin, deceiving themselves. And he's contrasting those people in verse 8
Speaker A
to the people in verse 9 who if we confess our sins, as in we are not those who say we don't sin. We confess. And the word confess just means acknowledge there. If we acknowledge our sins, he's faithful and just to forgive us our
Speaker A
sins. Well, I want to go back to the point you brought up earlier. Who do we confess to?
Speaker A
Put our trust in Jesus to save us. Who do we confess to? Well, I it doesn't it's actually not specific here. In fact, there it's specific somewhere else.
Speaker A
Where is it specific? Do you know where it's specific? Well, you can confess to God. Um, that's fine. You can and well, Ryan, I don't know how how thorough your biblical knowledge is here. Uh, but James 5 specifically says
Speaker A
that we can confess to each other. That's exactly what I just said. Yes. So, I don't know how thorough your biblical knowledge is here, but you know, in church history, excuse me, I let you speak. I don't know why you have
Speaker A
to interrupt me when I speak. Receive forgiveness of sins. Alex, that's not how we get forgiveness of sins. By confessing to a priest. Can you give me one Bible verse that says, "Confess to a priest to get your sins
Speaker A
forgiven." That's a straw man. That's not my position. Okay. At first, the church practiced this.
Speaker A
Excuse me. I don't know how thorough your knowledge of church history is, my brother. I love you. But I don't know how thorough your knowledge of church history is. The way the church practiced this at first was that they would
Speaker A
confess out loud to the entire church. However, as more high-profile people joined the church, the out loud confession in front of everybody did not become a tenable thing. So that you would go confess to a priest. So we have
Speaker A
the sacrament of confession by when you go to the priest, you don't sacri you don't confess to the priest. You confess you confess to God. The priest simply aids.
Speaker A
It's interesting you say that though. Interesting you say that. Aids the confession. Let me bring this up. The um this is from the the Orthodox. You said you're Orthodox.
Speaker A
Indeed. It says here in the Orthodox Catechism, basic teachings of the Orthodox faith, Bishop Seritus says, "Let no one say then that he can confess to God himself or to a saint or to an icon." No, it can only be done to a
Speaker A
bishop or to a priest and to no one else. Yeah. Well, if you knew about the Orthodox Church, you know that there is no one bishop that speaks for the Orthodox Church. The Orthodox Church speaks through its sinods. So the
Speaker A
standard understanding of con the sacrament of confession uh I don't know the greater context of this based on this one quote I would say that that is not entirely true. I think that there is more Are you saying that you know better than
Speaker A
this this bishop in the Orthodox church? No. What I suspect more is that you took that quote out of context.
Speaker A
You can go have a look at it you want. I would love to but a full understanding of confession is that the priest uh helps the confession along but you're confessing to God. He's just there to uh help the process go along, to ask
Speaker A
questions, probing questions. Have you ever confessed to your sins to anyone, Ryan? Have you ever confessed to a clergy about your sins?
Speaker A
Well, I don't see any biblical need to go and confess to a priest in order to Well, you should try it sometime.
Speaker A
In fact, I've I've received So, you've never even practiced this thing, yet you presume to you've never been to an Orthodox church, yet you presume to know about it. justified by faith as it makes very clear in Romans
Speaker A
5:1. It says here, "Therefore, since we've been justified by faith, we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ." What about 1 Corinthians 4 that says, "If you abandon sanctification, you abandon God." No, I reject I reject your
Speaker A
easy belieism. I reject easy belieism. So, you you you reject that we're justified by faith. I reject that we're justified by faith alone because the Bible also says that baptism saves you.
Speaker A
But do but do you reject that we're justified by faith? No, I reject that we are justified by faith alone. We are justified by faith to Paul. By what means are we justified then?
Speaker A
Uh sanctification. We're justified by faith. According to St. Peter, we're justified. We're saved by baptism.
Speaker A
We're justified by faith. And what does being justified by faith? Look, you're trying to run from my arguments here. 1 Thessalonians 4 says that if you abandon sanctification, you abandon God. How does that not uh how does that justify
Speaker A
your easy belieism? Yes, it does. We can pull it up. Pull it up, Ryan. Pull it up, Ryan. It says that you're not actually complying. You notice how you said, "I'm going to comply with the viewer chat rules here."
Speaker A
But you're not really doing that. Neither are you because you interrupted me as well, Ryan.
Speaker A
Yeah, Alex. Looks like you're not actually complying with the rules. I would encourage you, man, to read through Romans. This is what helped me, Alex, come to know the truth. And I really want you to come to know the
Speaker A
knowledge of the truth. He muted me, guys. Once you realize no amount of good deeds you could do could ever make you right before God. Doesn't matter how many times you pray, get baptized, do do others.
Speaker A
I'm muted. It's not going to make you peace have peace with God. Once you see, I should be in hell for my sins, but Christ died for me. While I was still sinning, Christ died for me. Once you put your
Speaker A
trust in him, you'll see this is you'll have peace with God. the ceasefire which you think you may have Alex until you do your next sin but actually true peace shalom with God don't you want to have peace with God Alex
Speaker A
of course I do but easy belieism is not the way which is what you are teaching why are you interrupting me justified by faith he muted me again he muted me again actually instead of dealing with the text you you you basically present straw
Speaker A
man like oh easy belieism where Paul says justified by faith and so my hope Um, Alex is that he muted me again in Christ, you have the certainty that Paul had when he says, "Since therefore we have now been justified by his blood,
Speaker A
much more shall we be saved by him from the wrath of God." So if this is true, being justified by his blood, this is even more true, right? It's definitely going to happen. He says, muted me.
Speaker A
So under your view, you could be justified, but then oh, you do a sin, you die in that state of sin. hell that undermines what the passage is saying here. So, Alex, I do pray that God does bring you to to himself, but
Speaker A
abandon trust in what your church is telling you and put trust in what Christ says in his word and what the scriptures say, the apostolic deposit, which is the word of God. Thanks for coming up, man.
Speaker A
God bless you. All right, let's pray for him. Heavenly Father, CAN I GET Romans 3:4 and 5?
Speaker A
Dude, he kicked me. Justified is by faith. He kicked me, dude. Let me pull up First Thessalonians 4.
Topics:Alex SorinThe Apostles FaithOrthodox Christianitysalvation assurancepenal substitutionary atonementHebrews 10confessionscriptural interpretationtheological debatelive stream controversy
