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In the comments, I was asked to talk about my experience of disidentification. But for the mind, there must be some kind of sequence in any action. And it seems the mind knows that for awakening, for disidentification from the body, from
Natalia Walter shares her personal journey of disidentification and awakening, exploring mind, self, and the nature of experience.
Key Takeaways
- Disidentification is a spontaneous, unique experience beyond mental planning.
- The mind is a neutral tool, not an enemy, and understanding it reduces suffering.
- Awakening does not remove life's challenges but changes the relationship to them.
- Seeing life as a transient movie brings freedom from identification and emotional reactivity.
- Self-knowledge and awakening are ongoing processes, not fixed states.
What the video covers
- The mind expects a sequence or path for awakening, but disidentification can happen spontaneously and uniquely for each person.
- Natalia's journey included exploring various spiritual schools, religious teachings, and personal experiences leading to disidentification.
- Disidentification is the realization that one is not the body or the mind, but an observer beyond these identities.
- The mind is a harmless tool that creates the 'movie' of life, and understanding its role dissolves its problems.
- Freedom comes from seeing life as a transient movie where identifications and emotions no longer bind the self.
- Life continues with its events and challenges even after disidentification; awakening does not mean escaping reality.
- Physical conditions, suffering, or disabilities are part of the 'movie' and do not affect the essence of the self.
- Consciousness shifts between different 'films' or lives, each with its own themes and lessons.
- Personal experience of awakening is key, and it cannot be forced or planned by the mind.
- True freedom arises from recognizing the illusory nature of the self and embracing the flow of life without attachment.
Chapters
- 00:00Introduction to Disidentification and the Mind's Expectations
- 01:16Exploration of Spiritual and Religious Schools
- 02:32First Powerful Experience of Disidentification
- 03:31The Mind as a Harmless Tool and Its Role
- 04:37Life Events and the Script of the Character
- 05:49Understanding Suffering and Life's Transience
- 06:55Expansion of Self-Knowledge Beyond the Body
- 09:04Living After Awakening and the Nature of Experience
Full Transcript — Download SRT & Markdown
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the person to happen, it is as if a path must be traveled from one point to another. And for some, this path in this dream of growth is, well, quite short, not very long. For others, it may last for decades. It’s like
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everyone has their own movie theme, and everyone experiences everything in their own way. And this is all fixed.
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This is all a given, yes, no matter how much the mind strives and throws these thoughts out there. "I still need to do something, I'm not there yet, I need to free myself from something, to transform." These are all just thoughts
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on the subject of the mind, yes, on the subject of the movie script. These are all the thoughts that must flash through the space while the movie is playing with your character. So, in 2020, the first thought crossed my mind
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: "But this isn't all just for nothing, maybe there is some purpose." And that is where it all began. There were several schools. At first, it was a superficial understanding of awakening, of what might be here, information about ancestry, about chakras, about
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the universe in general, yes, about how things can happen. And after that school, I ended up in—well, how I ended up there, interest was sparked—a religious school where we studied the Bible a little and received messages from the Holy Spirit. And I was there
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for a very short period of time, and I realized that this, well, is also just an illusory concept. You see, here I, some "me," Natasha, was not controlling any of this. That is, experiences of knowing something happened, and then
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things moved on. I mean, you know, it was as if something was being firmly taken and ripped out. That was a sensation for the mind. But in reality, it was just happening by itself. You know, like at some point it started to
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rain. You realized, yes, it’s raining, but you don't pay any attention to it, you just keep going. Aha, you saw that because of the rain the grass became greener, mushrooms grew.
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Everything is interconnected, as it were, but you don't give much importance to anything because it feels as if everything happens by itself, spontaneously. Well, for several years now, I don't know, no teachers see me.
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For me personally, for the character Natasha, there is no school. All of this is just seen everywhere. All this conceptual illusoriness, who believes in what, yes, what kind of concrete concepts hold someone, and you just see right through it all. And, well, I
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would say, probably about 3 years ago, I don't know exactly how long it's been now, my first, very powerful experience of disidentification occurred. I mean, before this experience, I had these prerequisites, one thing dissolved here, another thing there, then a third,
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and a tenth. And then the specific experience of disidentification happened when a certain book was read.
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Well, don't get hung up on the word "book," because that was just a specific trigger for Natasha. My acquaintance also read the exact same book. For her, it just turned out to be just a book.
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There was absolutely no hint that any kind of awakening should specifically occur. It just so happened that the book worked specifically for me at that exact moment. That's it, that's all. A bold period. Don't pay attention to it.
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I mean, for some people, this spontaneous click might happen, for example, when you are watching this video or reading some caption somewhere. You see, it's so spontaneous, I would even say it doesn't depend on the mind's understanding of when exactly it
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should happen. The mind usually makes plans like this. "Okay, I'll meditate for six months, read so many books, and then this will definitely happen to me.
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" The mind is in a constant state of expectation, but in this fixed film, things work completely differently. It does not depend on these plans or the mind's assumptions about how it should be. Well, in general, the mind is just
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a tool to make this film interesting. The mind is here for nothing else. And therefore, in reality, the mind is harmless. Even though we all scold it so much. "You're dragging me into this, the mind is to blame for everything."
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"You are so bad." In fact, it is harmless, because as soon as you have disidentified, or even when you have examined—not even disidentified, but just seen the true essence of the mind, what it's here for and how it functions—then there is no problem with the mind at all. The problem of the mind dissolves. Right at this moment, this is what is happening to me. I am experiencing that I don't care about any thoughts, any identifications, any
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reactions. What do I mean by "don't care"? It is freedom from all these emotions, from all these reactions.
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They arise. It all rises in the field, in the feeling. It's not like once disidentification has occurred, you know yourself as God, you know yourself as emptiness, and that's it. And you are in bliss, in a lotus pose, simply
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living in some kind of nirvana, in a cafe, or in samadhi. No, your whole life goes on in the same way.
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Everything that is meant to play out in terms of events, you cannot run away from it. You cannot eclipse it in any way. Yes, unless, of course, the script, the nature of your character, dictates that you must indeed go to
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some monastery and, like, surrender yourself completely to God, but that is a very small percentage of these waking dreams. So, where was I? The mind is not a problem. When you look at the purpose of the mind, what it's even
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here for, it stops being a problem in itself. You simply begin to consciously—well, "consciously" in quotes—enjoy or empathize, just observing every moment of this life as it manifests. And you can even say you get a kick out of it, to some extent, even
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when something unpleasant happens, knowing the only constant here is that everything changes. There is nothing permanent here. For instance, there was one comment about health problems, and how this will never change for the person who wrote it. Like, how is this
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changing? But that’s understandable, it depends on what kind of waking dream it is, what the theme is. Meaning, it is clear that in the movie you are watching, your body might not be doing well, for example. Yes, it is clear
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that in your movie, children with disabilities might be born in your surroundings, for example. But it is all in the movie. It is the same example again with the movie theater.
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You came to the cinema and you see that some mother gave birth to a child who isn't doing very well, maybe there is something wrong with the body, some kind of disability. Let's call it that.
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It doesn't matter what words are chosen. You understand the essence; those who need to understand will understand. You don't start trembling and banging your head against the floor. How could this be? Why such injustice? Why did God
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create such a movie where a child in the film was born disabled? You realize it's absurd because you are just watching a film in a theater on a screen. And this realization of knowing yourself not as some character—not as
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"I am a woman," or "I am a man," or "I have no money," or "I am sick." When you realize that it is just a movie playing, that is where freedom comes from. The understanding that all this is transitory; as soon as the body
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ceases to exist, that is, dies, the dream ends, meaning consciousness stops broadcasting all these images and immediately connects to a new film. And there you might be some kind of, well, millionaire, living, I don’t know, somewhere, with super-duper conditions,
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but, nonetheless, again, an idea might be born that somehow something is missing, a thirst for something, and you start to walk this path of awakening. Then again, everything here could be paved with gold, right? But a thirst exists for self-knowledge, for
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knowing something. He himse
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knowing something. He himself doesn't know what he wants. So, okay, I’ve drifted away from my experience again.
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So, my experience: a book was read. You see, I am only passing on these experiences of mine or my knowledge so that others who listen to this can have an easier time, so they can see that all this is actually complete nonsense,
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that it’s just a film. And we bang our heads on the floor and suffer only because we came to a cinema and are watching a film where it seems like someone is killing someone, someone is suffering. But it’s all an illusion,
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in reality. But anyway, my experience. A book was read. A book was simply read , and I felt that some kind of energetic movement was happening. I mean, I have sensitivity, yes, I feel in this scenario, in this film of
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waking life with Natasha, Natasha has various abilities, let's say, abilities . I feel some energetic changes when certain flows enter, exit, everything in between. But that is just an experience within the dream of waking life. I realized that something was
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happening. And at that moment, the knowledge of self simply expanded. I realized that I am not this body at all . There is no limitation in this body.
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I am much more expansive. My husband came in, the kids did something. I understand that they are all inside me.
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Before this experience, I didn't understand that at all. They say: "You are like bigger, and actually all universes, all planets are inside you," but until a personal experience happens . You can describe it however you want, but you won't actually be able to
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understand it, because you really need to live through your own experience. It’s the same as with some fruit. You try exotic—you won't know the fruit, an exotic fruit. The taste of an exotic fruit until you try it yourself. No
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matter who tells you, saying it's a bit bitter here, sweet here, sweet and sour , or anything else. Someone might try to describe the taste of a fruit to you , but you won't understand until you try it yourself. It's the same with
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these experiences on the path of awakening. Everything is conditional, everything is just in quotes, quite literally. Until you personally live through an experience, it is hard for the mind to grasp. And in that moment, when this disidentification with the
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body happened, I realized I am not the body. I even went up to a mirror and at one point I looked and thought: "God, what is this, whose face is this? It's not me at all, who is this anyway?" And
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there was a feeling as if everything was made of pixels. It felt like you could just snap your fingers and this whole face, this whole picture, would fall apart. All people, all objects, everything is within me. I am not the
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body. It's not just that I'm not the body, I am not limited by anything; I don't have these boundaries where I know I end here or there. This sense of self is so boundless. And this incredibly intense, expanded knowledge
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lasted for three days for me. And then it sort of faded away, but this inner knowing simply remained. Just like the fact that there is a woman sitting here right now, and not a man, right? And this knowledge of myself as an expanded
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divine space has stayed with me forever , yes? That is, as soon as I direct my attention there, that I am not in the body—the moment I just start to focus on it—it feels like everything starts to be experienced less extremely than
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in that moment, during those three days . But, nevertheless, I know immediately that I am not in the body. This is all an illusion. Everything that happens here is all illusory. And this illusion can only be seen through by attaining a
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truly personal experience. But when you attain this personal experience, do you need to do something special or not do something? How should one act in general, right? What is conducive to this? And what is not conducive. All these questions are just from the mind,
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and they come from a desire, a very strong one, to also live through this experience. But the knowledge that this movie is a given must simply come to the forefront. It's like something captured on film, on movie film, right?
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You come to the cinema, you watch a movie about some character, you can't speed anything up, you can't slow it down; everything just goes the way it's going to happen. And you simply observe the impulses that come to you. If you
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feel like doing some meditation, go and do it. If not, if there's a real rejection of it. You don't need anything. Do you understand? Through these impulses, through this intuitive desire, you definitely cannot wander off in another direction, stray from
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your, so to speak, path, from your life scenario. You are always in the right time and in the right place. You can never even do anything wrong here. So many people suffer from their minds, let's say, because they think: "Oh, I'm
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not doing enough, I need to do something else." If you absolutely must do this, if you feel a true internal impulse, a desire, then do it. If you don't need it, your body won't even get up or start doing any practices or
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anything at all. That's how it's been for Natasha now for several years too. Absolutely nothing is being done. No practices, no meditation, there is no desire or impulse. Well, that's because everything has already been seen and done, although on my own path, in fact,
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I never had it where I spent six months doing some kind of meditation. Yes.
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There were moments too, when it felt like I reached the level of samadhi. Even now, by the way, yes, when falling asleep there is this experience where the eyes begin to vibrate intensely, and it feels like a detachment from the
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body happens, and it's as if you realize yourself not as a body, but as some kind of flowing energy. I suppose that's what I'd call it. Well, you know , this is all funny too. It's all just an illusion, it's just the projection
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of consciousness of these so-called experiences. Now look, this is an important point. All experiences that happen here, no matter how supernatural or super-duper cool they might be, they are all experiences within this movie script. You could call them a hobby.
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Like how someone in childhood, remember , maybe someone collected candy wrappers; I had a period like that in my childhood, a long, long time ago.
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Some people collect stamps, maybe postcards, I don't know, whatever hobbies someone has, maybe some kind of weaving, embroidery, whatever men do, I don't know what kind of hobbies there can be. Oh, fishing, angling. I have been living in Germany since 2002, so
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if sometimes I use some words incorrectly, please don't scold me, it's just that I’m apparently starting to forget things a little. So, moving on. All these experiences are actually just needed in order to realize your true nature, to know who
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you are. But in most cases, the mind clings so tightly to these experiences. For example, an expansion happened, you realize yourself outside the body: "Oh, I am somehow special, not everyone can do this, but it happened to me." You
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see, this feeling gives you the sense that I am someone special, I am separated from others. Everyone is like this, but I am special. And for many, in the scenario given, this merging really happens through a certain experience. I don't know, maybe someone
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reaches some levels of samadhi, right? Through this way of living here, you can count on your fingers those who reach some levels of samadhi, like through years of earthly practices, that kind of thing. And that's why the mind thinks, this is a special person.
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But if my mind has experienced some kind of experience like that, damn, I'm like him, I'm special, and this needs to be looked at. You need to see that there are no special people here at all . There are just roles like a doctor, a
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janitor, a police officer, or someone else, and that's it. But this is a projection of one projector, one consciousness. There are no differences here whatsoever. You know, like actors brought together for a movie, meaning people, all are human, as they say,
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right? Well, everyone just plays, films , yes, films a movie and plays their specific role. All words are fixed, what these people must say. Someone might be an abuser, someone else, on the contrary, saves someone. And whatever everyone is up to, in the film
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don't cling to this idea that if some experience was lived, that it is something special. It is the opposite; through these supernatural experiences, it is examined. If the mind isn't pulling at you, it’s realized that I am not the body, not some hero living
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through various experiences, but I am not the body, I am emptiness. I am the space in which all of this is happening . In fact, in every one of my videos, every clip, I’m talking about the same thing. I, I don’t know, I think
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that’s Natasha’s role. To convey in simple words that there is actually nothing to achieve here, so that the mind calms down and sees that it’s not the star of the show. The mind is not the boss here, not the doer. It
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doesn’t do anything here at all, except describe. It puts everything into frames, into some categories.
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It’s just a descriptive function. It’s for interest, to have impressions, to ensure real engagement.
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But even if you take computer games, you understand, right, at some point you play and play, as if, and then the interest fades. And that’s like an awakening. It’s the same here, while there is interest, yes, all of this
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continues to happen. Well, this life, this waking dream, was created for exactly that, so it wouldn’t be boring. God is emptiness, yes, there absolutely nothing happens. There is just emptiness, emptiness without a single quality. And so, God, with the
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help of consciousness and the mind, projects these lives, as if they were diverse. But in essence, everything here is one. There are no divisions at all. So, there was something else I wanted to say, yes, about my experience
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. One more moment, probably something I haven't shared anywhere yet. Also, a long time ago, it was realized that, you know, in childhood, perhaps you heard things like: "Don't do anything bad here, God sees everything, God will punish you." Maybe someone has heard
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that. So, you know, what is the meaning of that? I also had an experience play out according to the script, just spontaneously. There wasn't even any trigger for it. Actually, all these realizations, flashes, they just spontaneously click into place at some
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moment. That’s it, I know, I don't know from where, even the mind doesn’t know where it knows this from . I was sitting, the body was sitting on the sofa, at some point something clicked, and I started just looking
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into this space, and I see my body as if in a mirror. That is, you understand , a clear knowing, as if a mirror was placed in front of me, and I see myself . For the mind, of course, it was a bit
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of a shock at first, because how could this be, what even is this? I mean, I wasn't visualizing myself; it was as if space was mirroring me, showing me myself in this way. And so, wherever I looked, as if I wanted to see, for
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example, what was under the sofa, I could see it. Well, my bottom, let’s say, my legs, yes, how the body sits on the sofa, clearly—not just some visualization, but really clearly. I could shift my attention and seemingly appear in my child's room. I could see
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what he was doing there, how he was sitting. Very clearly, just very clearly. This, I repeat again, is not some kind of visualization. And this experience of mine also lasted about a month. What does this mean? Then the
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concept came to me of what this emptiness is. Oh, emptiness. This space of God, it is all-aware. Every cubic millimeter of this space is all-perceiving. There is no empty space here at all. This whole air, as if around the body, is all-aware space.
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Because in this space, all these pictures appear. This is the space of God. God is everything that this is. No , that’s not right. God is not this.
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He gives this hologram the opportunity to manifest within Himself. And He is the one watching all these movies. But the perception isn't by some sort of God; the perception of all these pictures happens through the mind. The mind describes it and puts it all into
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frames. But this can also be compared to the space of the sky. Look, the sky itself is never changing. Emptiness is never changing. And the sky always remains the same. But various forms of clouds exist in the sky. Storm clouds,
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the sun, a thunderstorm, for example, lightning, birds flying, airplanes. The space of the sky does not change regardless of what manifests within it.
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The same applies to the empty God Himself. And the sky simply allows everything to spontaneously manifest within it. Likewise, here in the space of God, in emptiness, all pictures spontaneously at some moment, well, manifest as a projection, like a
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hologram. And with the help of the mind , and sensors, these senses, we can feel all this and live it as if it were real. Once again, it’s turned into a long video, and it seems I didn’t talk that much about my own experience,
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but you see, all experiences, I emphasize again, all these supernatural ones are given to us...someone sees something there. But the main idea of any experience is to understand that you are not the body, that you are not some "someone" who is watching this.
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But for many, it happens the other way around: an involvement begins, a feeling of being someone special. And so I want more experience. And that is why some further practice is attempted, meditation, in short, an attempt by the
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mind to reach yet some additional experience and more experience. And this thirst to get something, some new sensations, impressions. And this is infinite, actually. But then again, the foundation of everything is what is given. You are not in control of this.
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If there is a thirst for some kind of feats, let it be. Do not resist anything. This non-resistance, this relaxation in all of this, that is the most important thing, actually. Let everything manifest as it is meant to
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manifest. It will manifest as it must anyway, because it is all set in stone.
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Whatever happens, whatever pressure the mind exerts on you, look at the fact that it is happening regardless. It is without your participation. I embrace you.
Topics:disidentificationawakeningmindfulnessspiritual journeyself-realizationconsciousnessnon-attachmentmind naturespiritual experiencepersonal growth
