Dream, Do, Dare: Using Brand Mission to Drive Market Op… — Transcript

[Music] Hello and welcome, everyone. Today, I am Matthew Quint, the director of the Center on Global Brand Leadership at Columbia Business School. Really happy to have you here today. At the Brand Center, our mission is to create, gather, and share knowledge on what it takes to build a strong brand, and we look forward to today's webinar as an interesting discussion on exactly that point. So welcome to Dream Do Dare: Using Brand Mission to Drive Market Opportunity. I'm really excited about the session today. You know, the interconnectivity of our digital world has changed the relationship between brands and their stakeholders, making the clarity and commitment to a brand's mission more impactful than ever before. I wanted to go through a couple of logistics before we get started with the session. We are recording the session, so we will plan to share a link with everyone once it has been publicly posted. Also, to ask questions, please try to use the Q and A feature in the center at the bottom of your Zoom client. That's the best way for us to be able to keep track of questions. The chat is also open if you have a comment to the panelists or myself. Please use that, but please try to ask your questions using the Q and A feature. This makes it easier to sort through them. So without further ado, I want to thank in particular JP Coolvine, who is a friend of the Brand Center, an adjunct faculty member at the marketing department at Columbia Business School, a principal at Uber Brands Consulting, and his latest book is called Brand Elevation: Lessons in Uber Branding, and that is the inspiration for today's panel, which will feature Ben and Jerry's, Nextdoor, TerraCycle, Zoo Consulting. So without further ado, JP, why don't you come on stage? I'm right here while on the virtual stage. So hello, everyone. Thanks for the intro, Matt. Thanks for having us all here. So Coolvine is the name. I'm an adjunct here at Columbia. I teach a course on premium brand strategy, and in my previous life, I worked at Procter & Gamble for longer than I want to admit. Today, we're going to talk about brand elevation, how to make a brand peerless and priceless. The origins of that really hark back to that time at Procter & Gamble, and more specifically to the economic crisis because I was director of brand strategy at P&G at that time. One of the things that fascinated us, or puzzled us, I should say, to a large extent, was that little niche brands that we were sure would go under during an economic crisis, where people were tight on money, were actually flourishing. I'm talking about the Tom's of Maine toothpaste or the Ben and Jerry's ice cream that we have actually on the panel today, so we'll be able to talk about that. Those were premium brands. We considered them niche, and we were fascinated that they were doing very well. In fact, they were doing better in many cases than the mainstay leading brands, and they were doing better than the brands that we thought should be growing during an economic crisis, which are the discount kind of store brands, etc. From there started truly a fascination with what drives these premium brands, how are they able to kind of set themselves above and beyond the fray and able to be successful in many instances with significant premium pricing over the average. So we started with typical P&G fashion with a cross-functional team across R&D and finance, design, you name it, marketing of course, and we really studied them in detail and extracted some interesting principles. Wolfgang and I—Wolfgang is also on this panel, my co-author on the two books we've written on the subject—we really got almost obsessed with that in a good way, in a good way, and really dove into what creates these brands, these elevated brands. We call them new prestige, a new kind of prestige, or better, Uber brands. Not just to annoy everyone with the pronunciation of Uber, like in Coolvine and so on, or in 12, but because Uber in German is one of those unique words just like schadenfreude, and it means above and beyond, and that's what we felt many of these brands do. They go above and beyond. They're not a home exercise machine or a smartphone; they are a Peloton and an iPhone, and to people who own them, they mean a lot more than, you know, the functional material things that they are. In fact, funnily, in many of our Zoom meetings that we're now having, I see just a little bit of Peloton being squeezed into the picture by people because to them it expresses something about themselves, their attitude, their fitness, their belonging to a socioeconomic class, how they take care of their body, and so on and so on. They accumulate meaning. So as I said, we're fairly obsessive about that. Wolfgang, can I welcome you quickly to this panel? Hello. Yeah, Ben, and I think we've invited, as I said, quite a few people who can talk very intelligently and insightfully about elevating brands, and that is, I'll start with Deborah Gutz, who is the head of brand marketing at Nextdoor. Nextdoor being an online neighborhood community where members do not hide behind an avatar or, you know, make anonymous statements, but rather very consciously join a community. We call this daring, and you'll know a lot about that once we discuss it. This is a daring way of doing it. Hello, Deborah. Maybe we can see you there as well just for a little bit so it's not so anonymous. JP, to you, and I love hearing—yes, real people, real neighborhoods. That's what we're about. There we go. Okay, I got it. We also have Dave here. I already mentioned Ben and Jerry's. Dave is the global social mission officer at Ben and Jerry's. Interesting title, interesting function within an ice cream company. Hello, Dave. Hey, good to be here. And he pops up in our research and books all the time, in our podcast, so I'm always worried about wearing Dave out, but he volunteered. Thank you so much for coming again on this panel today. It's really fascinating what they do when it comes to doing. So that's another element of our model. Doing is really important, to have ideas that do. Actually, being the good teacher, hopefully that I am, I want to project just for a second this model. Everyone always likes a model, I think a visual and an alliteration can do a lot to help you remember. We're talking about Dream, Do, and Dare, and it's all based on the brand DNA: Dream, Do, and Dare. It actually starts with Dream, which brings me back to our last panelist as soon as I figure out how to stop sharing. Here we go. To our last panelist, who is Tom Zaki. Hello, Tom. Very, very happy to be here. Thanks for having me. I hope you don't mind, but I keep liking to call you the Jesus of waste management, and actually people will be insulted somewhat, I think, particularly at TerraCycle, to talk about waste management, and we'll see that it really goes way beyond that. We love this case study of TerraCycle because, sorry, because it is a category—waste management—that is not glamorous, to say the least. It is business to business, and it just shows to a large extent, at least, and it just shows that any business, any proposal, any brand and service can be elevated. Tom, we're going to start out with you. You're going to talk about that dream part. If you've ever read Joseph Campbell or heard some of the interesting interviews on PBS, you'll know that dreaming and myth—the myth is a shared dream—and we think that TerraCycle is a great example of not only having a mission but also translating it to a shared dream, which we call the myth, and that perfectly represents what I call this dream bubble earlier on. So hello again, Tom. Welcome to the show. As I said, let's start with you. It will strike people as strange to talk about waste management and dream, mission, yes, but myth, not so much. Can you tell us a little bit about your personal background? I think you'll tell us that there is an idea, an idea that's called doing away with the idea of waste itself that came before the whole company. Is that right?

knowledge on what it takes to build a strong brand and we look forward to today's webinar as an interesting discussion on exactly that point so welcome to dream do dare using brand mission to drive market opportunity i'm really excited about

session today you know the interconnectivity of our digital world has changed the relationship between brands and their stakeholders making the clarity and commitment to a brand's mission more impactful than ever before wanted to go through a couple of

logistics uh before we get started with the session we are recording the session so we will plan to share a link with everyone once it has been publicly posted also to ask questions please try to use the q and a

feature in the center at the bottom of your zoom client uh that's the best way for us to be able to keep track of questions the chat is also open if you have a comment uh to the panelists myself please use that

but please try to ask your questions using the q a feature this makes it easier to sort through them so without further ado i want to thank in particular jp coolvine who is a friend of the brand center

an adjunct faculty member at the of the marketing department at columbia business school a principal at uber brands consulting and his latest book is called brand elevation lessons in uber branding and that is the inspiration for today's panel

which will feature ben and jerry's next door terracycle zoo consulting so without further ado jp why don't you come on stage i'm right here while on the virtual stage so hello everyone uh thanks for the intro math thanks for

having us all here so cool vine is the name i'm an adjunct here at columbia i teach a course on premium brand strategy and in my previous life um i worked at procter gamble for longer than i want to admit and today

we're going to talk about brand elevation how to make a brand peerless and priceless and the origins of that really hark back to that time at procter gamble and more specifically to the economic crisis because i was director of brand strategy at png at

that time and one of the things that fascinated us was that um or puzzled us i should say to a large extent was that little niche brands that we were sure would go under during an economic crisis where people were tied on money were

actually flourishing i'm talking about the toms of maine toothpaste or the ben and jerry's ice cream that we have actually on the panel today so we'll be able to talk about that um those were premium brands we considered them niche and we were

fascinated that they were doing very well in fact they were doing better in many cases than the mainstay leading brands um and they were doing better than the brands that we thought should be growing during an economic crisis which are the

discount kind of store brands etc etc from there started truly a fascination with what drives these premium brands how are they able to kind of set themselves above and beyond the fray and able to be successful in many instances with significant

premium pricing over the average so we started with typical png fashion with a cross-functional team across r d and finance design you name it marketing of course and we really studied them in detail and extracted some interesting principle

but wolfgang and i wolfgang is also on this panel my co-author on the two books we've written on the subject we really got uh almost obsessed with that in a good way in a good way and really dove into

what creates these uh brands these elevated brands we call them new prestige a new kind prestige or better uber brands not just to annoy everyone with the pronunciation of uber like in kuvine and so on or in 12 but because uber in german is

one of those unique words just like schadenfreude and it means above and beyond and that's what we felt many of these brands do they go above and beyond they're not a home exercise machine or a smartphone they are

a peliton and an iphone and to people who own them they mean a lot more than you know the functional material things that they are in fact funnily in many of our zoom meetings that we're now having i see

just a little bit of peloton being squeezed into the picture by people because to them it expresses something about themselves their attitude their fitness their belonging to a social social economic class how they take care of their body

and so on and so on they accumulate meaning so as i said we're fairly obsessive about that wolfing eye wolf can i welcome you quickly to this panel hello yeah been and i think we've uh invited as i said uh quite a few

people who can talk very intelligently and insightfully about elevating brands and that is i'll start with deborah gutz who is the head of brand marketing at nextdoor um next door being an online neighborhood community where members do not behind

hide behind a avatar or you know make anonymous statements but rather very consciously join a community we call this daring and you'll know a lot about that once we discuss it this is a daring way of doing it hello

deborah maybe we can see you there as well just for a little bit so it's not so anonymous jp to you and i love hearing yes real people real neighborhoods that's what we're about there we go okay i got it um we also have dave here

i already mentioned ben and jerry's dave is the global social mission officer ed ben and jerry's interesting title interesting function within an ice cream company hello dave hey good to be here and um he pops up in our research and books all the time in

our podcast so i'm always worried about wearing dave out but he volunteered thank you so much for coming again on this panel today it's really fascinating what they do when it comes to doing so that's another element of our model doing is really

important to have ideas that do actually being the good teacher hopefully that i am i want to project just for a second this model um everyone always likes a model i think a visual and an alliteration uh can do

a lot to help you remember we're talking about dream do and there and it's all based on the brand dna dream do and there and it actually starts with dream which brings me back to our last panelist as soon as i figure out how to stop

sharing um here we go um to our last panelist who is tom zaki hello tom very very happy to be here thanks for having me i hope you don't mind but i keep liking to call you the jesus

of waste management and actually people will be in insulted somewhat i think particularly at terra cycle to talk about waste management and we'll see that it really goes way beyond that we love this case study of terracycling because

terracycle sorry because um it is a category waste management that is not glamorous to say the least it is business to business and it just shows to a large extent at least and it just shows that any business any proposal any brand and

service can be elevated and tom uh we're gonna start out with him is gonna talk about that dream part uh if you've ever read joseph campbell or heard some of the interesting interviews on pbs you'll know that uh dreaming uh and

myth the myth is a shared dream and we think that terror cycle is a great example of not only having a mission but also translating it to a shared dream which we call the myth and that perfectly represents what i

call this dream bubble earlier on so hello again uh tom well welcome to the show um as i said let's start with you um it will strike people as strange to talk about waste management and dream mission yes but myth not so much

can you tell us a little bit about your personal background and i think you'll tell us that there is an idea an idea that's called um doing away with the idea of waste itself that came before the whole company is

that right absolutely and uh just to you know to sort of give a point before you know uh that piece i think in the unexpected areas right like waste management there is actually a huge amount of opportunity so i'd always encourage anyone listening

to explore those areas that are always ignored um you know so for me uh my journey began uh uh i was born in budapest in 83 and that's only also 82 and that's only relevant because there's still communism under

the iron curtain and in 86 chernobyl happened and we were able to leave really more my parents i was four at the time as political refugees you know seeking asylum in germany then holland and belgium and finally canada where i got

when i was four and then grew up in canada and came down to college in new jersey which is where i'm speaking to you from today and i mentioned the story uh uh only because it was a story of

leaving communism and ending up in you know the heartland of capitalism and for me i fell in love with with entrepreneurship you know and to be honest like in high school i mean i started a company when i was 14 you know

web design things like that but it was really for the selfish reasons you know uh very egotistical reasons of fame and fortune which can come uh uh on you know in in entrepreneurship but i had a massive turning point and

this is really what uh uh brought to life sort of the genesis of terracycle was i remember this very clearly and my first class at princeton was economics 101 you know introduction to econ and the professor gets up on stage

and mine uses the first class first lecture first experience and she asks what's the purpose of business which is mind you a very reasonable opening question to economics and the answer she was looking for was profit to shareholders that's the

purpose i mean i get it i'm a capitalist and i think profit is very important but it took a lot of excitement away because you know you think about it look at all the stakeholders who interact with the business uh

the um customers the uh consumers the vendors the employees i mean i don't think anyone cares about profit to shareholders except the select few people who actually have equity in that company and to me it created the sort of

reframing opportunity what is the purpose of profit there's not to be empty profit but isn't profit more an indicator of health right if you're profitable it's like being healthy you're going to grow you're going to flourish you're going to

be able to spread your mission and if you're not profitable it's like being sick you will constrain and die and you know in business that would be equal to going bankrupt one day and so this began the very beginning

even before we had the idea it was how to put purpose first and to execute that purpose at a profit and garbage just became the landing point because it's the the topic that is most filled with anomalies i'll just give you one example

and then stop which is you know isn't it funny we live in a very materialistic world today where we judge our status in no small part to how much stuff we have but the garbage companies the only in

the garbage industry is the only industry in the world that can say it will legally own everything you possess one day with no exception i mean everything and for how big that idea is isn't it strange that it's one of the

least innovative industries per dollar of revenue it enjoys so you can imagine there's a lot to unpack there for an entrepreneurial point of view right and and this and and you are a disciple i mean i don't call you the

jesus for nothing i mean you're at minimum you're a disciple of spreading the word about eliminating the idea of waste itself and it's truly embraced by a ton of different stakeholders that you have right because it goes beyond just the

employee and the customer let's say your customer are multiple and your your organization extends way beyond the paid people right can you tell us a little bit the mission and how you enroll these people into the mission absolutely

um i would say covet has accentuated the look a little bit um but uh but nevertheless um you know our mission uh is not to manage waste but to solve for waste uh you know we say you know that's to eliminate the

idea of waste and we really lead with mission first you know for terracycle you know not to go in too much of the practical ways of how we do it but it's moving companies from linear systems to recyclable recycled

content reusable and you know in that spirit we work with just about every major brand in the world you know retailers now nationally across 20 countries and so on but what is really powerful is that it's about how do you wield something

with purpose and drive a business value uh as you go you know whether it's a retailer driving more foot traffic a brand driving more loyalty but doing so while accomplishing the mission and what that purpose has been incredibly powerful in attracting uh

team members to join you know i mean as a waste management company uh you know we get so many unbelievable people who want to work with us we're actually even majority female as an organization which is very unusual

in waste usually a waste is not something people want to work at and little and it's usually very male dominated we are able to sort of tap into different uh ecosystems and different ways to think because it's taking this idea of how do you

eliminate waste which everyone can rally around but elevating it uh and then making it relevant for the different stakeholders right in their own ways because right now many times you know we look at especially waste and solving for waste is managing a risk

but uh nature doesn't look at waste that way nature looks at waste as a very useful input you know to uh to the next ecosystem in fact probably anything we consume is the waste of some other organism right but in in the human

context we don't have that philosophy and the more we can embody that philosophy the more it creates inspiration and it actually you know if you walked into our offices it would look more like walking into the offices of say

mtv than it would look like walking into the offices of waste management inc and uh uh it brings a whole new point of view you know to innovation and waste which are usually two ideas that are typically more

divorced you know than innovation in like high tech or fashion or cosmetics and so on and what i find fascinating is you live this as an organization but as we exhaust observe with uber brands elevated brands in general and it's funny to

like you say to talk about waste and elevated brands but that what it is is um your customers which can be corporate customers um cpg companies uh mostly are actually embracing parts of that meaning parts of that mission and making

it their own just like you make a certain reflection on yourself when you use a pelton like i said earlier or buy that birkin bag and they integrate it into their own personality proudly like taking on bits of it i'm

thinking of seeing all these pictures from various cpg companies collecting waste and plastics with you on beaches etc etc you said at one point we had an interview before about it's as much about the mission as it is about the myth it's like the

stake and the sizzle can you talk a little bit about the sizzle and how you do that absolutely um and i think it's that you know you have to have both right uh and i think brands will understand uh

anyone who's in this call the power of sizzle now you have to have authenticity transparency you have to have the substance um but you also have to get people to become excited to love you know to to feel a part of the overall cause now

the way we try to do that with partners is we don't try to go into a partner and say you know please you know believe in our mission and make our mission your mission instead we say we try to understand as much as we can

about the the partner what is their mission what are their business goals which are sometimes two very different questions like what does the brand stand for and what is the brain trying to achieve from a p l point of view in the next you

know 90 days or a year and then we try to really you know think about how can we bring to life and accentuate that overall purpose of the brand while injecting what our uh goals are and then what tends to happen which is

incredibly exciting is the brands make it their own you know they and then we learn and and and flourish much more uh because we uh sort of come in and reinforce uh uh in their own slipstream and i

think this is very important as a lesson for anyone leading a social enterprise that is you know working with say brands or retailers as many times a social enterprise is going to come in and only focus on their mission and then try to

have that brand sort of meet you know that mission and that's okay but you'll get a much much higher success is if it's about coming to the brand and really not just understanding but empathizing with what that brand is trying to

achieve what they're trying to stand for again two different things and then showing them how they can accentuate that by reinforcing your own uh mission and i think this has been one of the greatest lessons for uh for me and it also

uh creates um this ability for what we do to you know create lots of colors and different ways it's manifested and so we're able to do everything from you know cigarette recycling where the partners could be you know tobacco

companies all the way to working you know uh uh uh on ppe you know collections to even ice cream and you name it you know all functioning simultaneously right right excellent i know we could go on forever i want to switch it around though a

little bit um wolfgang we're talking about guiding myth in the book i think uh tom shows us here how these meta stories can work to kind of be a north star not only for the company but key stereo

stakeholders here can you talk a little bit about the guiding myth and then maybe uh turn it to dave when we get into the doing from the myth making yeah i mean i think tom talked perfectly about guiding with

and made it very clear important is to have a story um to tell about the company and the mission overall i think what what often happens is that people do apply storytelling and marketing i mean that's not that's no news and nothing nothing

unique but they do apply it on a specific level when they send messages when they do campaigns when they do direct to consumer communication etc but what they often forget is the overarching story or what we call the meta story the myth um that

everything should let her up to you know or everything should flow from either way and i think that is that is the important part and that gets even even more forgotten these days because the opportunities are so many you have

so many more touch points and channels to communicate on and so many more different sub divided audiences where you feel like i have to have a special measure message for that person or for that group of right on this

channel and so you kind of fragment your messaging instead of like leading it all up to that one overarching with ben jerry's on the other hand has not it doesn't have that problem i think ben and jerry's albeit um really working on two angles

on one on a self-indulgent like super ice cream and on the other on having like a socio-political um positioning so you you're having those two things to juggle and i would find that interesting well perhaps from first from it from a

personal perspective um what drew you to that company what what keeps you at that company you know my my background is is kind of eclectic uh i spent the first 20 years of my career as an environmental activist for

organizations like greenpeace in the last now 20 years uh the business side of the fence uh you know for me it's always been about you know how can i uh you know create the kind of positive change that i that i i wish to have in

the world and that's you know it's a perfect marriage for me because that's what ben and jerry's is all about you know in the intro to the conversation i think you know it was said i think matthew said uh something about how uh

we were going to be talking about how to use mission to drive marketing that you know ben and jerry's is really just the opposite um you know we use uh our business to drive our mission um and and you know of course we realize

that to carry out that mission we need to have uh you know great product and we need to have have all of our uh financial house in order so we have this three-part mission the product the product mission the

economic mission and the social mission that together really drive the business you know when when you think about how it got started ben and jerry had an ice cream shop in burlington vermont and they you know started out trying to make

great ice cream uh and but you know after a few years when you know they they began to realize what uh you know having a business really was about all the nuts and bolts all the headaches all of the things that are involved with

with creating and making a successful business they would have walked away if they hadn't have uh realized that uh this was an opportunity to advance who they wanted to be in the world to to make the kinds of positive change

they wanted to have in line with their deeply held values and and so uh really you know that has continued um we uh we we have this social mission that we advance which really continues to advance these core

values that are fundamentally based on the values these two real people had and today we describe it as being around human rights and dignity uh social economic justice and and uh environmental protection and restoration and regeneration and we

we do that through both the the the way we do business so the typical sustainability stuff a very robust set of values and sourcing programs that are really about creating linked prosperity with all our stakeholders and then using our influence as a

business within society through our our unique model of fan facing activism and using our our uh our our uh our platform uh to say what needs to be said very often so dave thank you i mean that that that

makes the story very clear we wanted to talk with you a little bit about the do aspect which is arguably the most difficult because having a great story which is our dream and a great mission is one thing but

making it come to life every day and day out and living up to it is harder no less so when you have a mission like you do which is not only twofold as one would assume but threefold um and and and and and high reaching in

each in each area can you talk a little bit about like what you how you make that happen on a day-to-day basis on the product level but then also on the socio-political level no less so since you were bought by a

bigger holding company unilever which might make make things different or or more difficult or even easier in some ways well picking up on the last part of your question you know i think ben and jerry's is probably still unique in the acquisition

agreement that was negotiated with unilever back in 99 2000 when when ben and jerry's was purchased uh you know we through that acquisition agreement really have retained a level of independence that again i think is unique we have a board of directors

whose role is to safeguard the social mission and the integrity of the brand and um you know they actually have the power under the acquisition agreement to bring the company back independent if they felt that unilever was not actually

living up to that now that obviously hasn't happened and i think we have a very uh successful uh relationship as part of you know within unilever uh who have themselves really taken on a a very uh genuine approach to uh sustainability and and uh

you know the bigger big vision of their social mission but we the way we bring it to life every day is you know it's a combination of things i mean we we certainly do as i alluded to put a

lot of uh effort into this notion of link prosperity and working across our supply chain uh to to ensure that uh everybody's receiving a living income uh both employees and and we source uh you know ingredients so there's a range of things we do there

but much of what we do and what we're known for uh is our activism and sometimes that takes expression uh in the case for example of uh we recently launched colin kaepernick's change the world uh with uh some of the the the profits

going to support his know your rights camp as one example but we do a lot of work uh we have ngo partners and most of what we do in our activism is really led by these partners and what we try to

do is bring the tools we have as a business to the table to advance their cause and then take take our you know the leadership from from them and and so it can be something like working with a coalition

uh in saint louis to close this notorious workhouse jail which uh has held the majority black uh uh uh people who were who were pre-trial because they and they're just there because they couldn't afford cash bail uh and uh the coalition uh has

successfully got the uh board of aldermen to uh pass something last year to close it working with color of change and and aclu and advancement project to to do a range of things mostly focused now in the us

on uh racial justice on racial equity so there are specific campaigns that we uh uh you know bring our efforts to and that may take the form of of uh working with them to use our our platform on social media to really uh

draw people to their efforts uh but also in the case of uh you know moments where uh something needs to be said by leaders across society we raise our voices using social media channels so we we had this very widely uh shared

statement uh on uh dismantling white supremacy in the wake of the george murder more recently uh the day after the uh insurrection of the capital uh calling out that this was really uh you know a riot by uh white supremacists uh and and uh

so we you know we're we take that role seriously the you know social responsibility um corporate citizenship means being a true citizen and and uh you know um being being a responsible uh one that uses our mouthpiece uh where

where it can you know where it's needed dave oh you go ahead shane yeah i think those are very strong examples showing that you know to put your money energy effort and risk controversy uh frankly which you do all the time

where your mouth is a great example about doing we have one question from somebody who prefers to remain anonymous uh which is interesting i'd like to get your take on it which is uh anonymous says i've seen cpg brands

trying to convert to purpose-driven brands and mission-driven brands by doing one or two things either they manufacture in a sustainable way or they take on some charitable community-based cause or join such an organization which one is stronger now

to me that rings like it's missing one of those fundamentals which is the dna of your organization needs to be into it it's not just saying what do we do now sustainability or community action what's your recommendation for

brands which is actually another question we have here that already exists that we're not sustainable or higher purpose led um what should they do and then i know wolfgang will have a point of view on that as well

well you know i think you know my own view is uh that you really got to find a true purpose uh you know for us we don't do cause-related marketing we have our values and the things we want to advance and we

set about our work to try to uh you know make those changes and and we know that there is a byproduct of that which is actually building the brand but we also understand that the minute we do it for

that purpose uh it loses its magic and so we really keep that function very distinct and we don't measure our success in ways that attempt to capture uh you know that that kind of brand value building aspect it's really

about whether we're making change or not uh and and so i i i'd say find something that that is truly important obviously most folks think about it in relation to the business and the category that they're in but we're certainly

uh proof of the fact that it doesn't have to be that way uh but you know what we do in that process is that we create a very deep relationship uh with our fans i mean the closest ben said this the closest relationship

you can have with your consumers is over shared values and that starts with actually having values not asking what do our fans value and how do we associate ourselves with that but just coming out with what it is and

and that preserves the authenticity and it means we're controversial um you know but we would rather uh uh you know again achieve the change we're after and and from a business standpoint it's been very uh useful to have that

really genuinely close relationship over shared values and uh you know not everybody agrees and it turns out we don't need everybody to agree with us to be very successful in business um one question actually to follow up on

that i mean you said going in that your business is actually the engine for your bigger purpose sociopolitical one and mission and that makes perfect sense do those two ever cross not just in the famous naming of your

ice cream concoctions but um is there also any other kind of like inspiration that comes from a certain cause um in terms of the product development or any other kind of like interlinkage between um the product that you actually develop

and do so fabulously and then the um the activism that you do equally fabulously but apparent well it you know i should say uh you know very clearly these concoctions have to be euphoric they have to be fabulous in order for

all of this to work so uh you know and they all pretend that it's just about going out and making a controversial statements we've got to make the best ice cream there is and i think we do that

um but uh you know i think this notion of link prosperity uh is a big part of what drives us and so a lot of that really does you know influence uh you know the product um we we uh

with the past year uh i guess pretty recently uh announced that we've committed to paying um a living income price premium to our cocoa farmers uh and and uh you know where and how we source cocoa is obviously uh uh goes all the way from

our values to how the product tastes and how people experience it the the brownies that we use in chocolate fudge brownie and a lot of our other products are made by grayston in yonkers new york which has pioneered

the concept of open hiring really giving job opportunities for people who are very hard to employ and and you know a wonderful story there that we've been really happy to support so that's got a very direct link as does our cookie dough which is uh

made by a company here in vermont called rhino which is uh taking that open hiring concept and applying it to uh refugees and and asylum seekers that are that are living here in burlington so you know it there is a lot of uh of

inspiration uh you know that comes back and forth from the social mission uh and our our product development and and uh you know when you look at it at a at a product like uh colin kaepernick's uh uh change the world uh he's a vegan um

and uh you know we developed that product uh you know uh in conjunction with with him and you know what he likes and uh um uh you know there's a whole aspect of the social mission there that that

rise with that as well excellent thank you jp you're the keeper of time do we have to right so i i want to i want to move on also because there are interesting questions here directed at deborah um so we've heard about

the dreaming we definitely also heard about the doing uh right now with ben and jerry's the third aspect um um we call the daring and you already heard that from dave they dare uh in their relationship with people they dare them not to be

complacent and also they dare them from a tastebud perspective wolfgang can you talk a little bit about that and then deborah i think has is an interesting position because there it is all about community and relationship yeah the day i mean it's very easy the

daring part is the one where it's about the interaction the engagement with the world and that defines that starts of course first with defining your target or your uber target as we like to call it the one that you really

designed for the one that you definitely want to have in the boat um because they are your fans they are the ones that you're your evangelists you know and then of course how you keep them and ignite them or ignite all of your

targets so it's particularly interesting in the context of next door i think to figure out because you as you said like real people real neighborhoods they are diverse do you have anything like an uber target like an uber target

like one that really symbolizes your your dream the best or is it all of them okay it's everyone right so for us it's really one neighborhood one neighbor at a time right so our beginning story it's a ten

year old story that sounds more relevant than ever today because it goes back to 10 years ago pew research put out a study and said 28 of people don't know a single neighbor and a single neighbor so and the the

point being the more we're connected the more we're actually disconnected and so with all the social media and et cetera out there people were moving away from each other and the need we all know there's a basic physical need that we all as

humans have you have to be connected to those around you so i look at the dream and the dare as one in the same for us our bigger mission our bigger purpose is to go cultivate a kinder world where everyone

has a neighborhood they can rely on we're zooming right in on neighborhood everybody neighborhood this past year has spotlighted that more than ever and the whole point of literally you need the information you need the tools to connect

we want to use online to get people offline and to get them together and connect in real life so it goes back to the dare for us is to conquer loneliness the dare for us is to conquer small

business falling off a cliff the dare for us is the same as the dream which if everybody has a community we all step out of our front door at some point in the day hopefully maybe with a mask on at this point

but you all step outside you need that community to be thriving you need to be plugged into it so really we think about it every day how do we help you plug into the neighborhoods that matter to you

it may be right outside your door it may be where you were your fan your family is your kids are at school your parents are somewhere else there are neighborhoods you need to know what's going on there and so

we've seen this come to light in this past year again if you think of cobit the first thing people needed was information it's no different than when a hurricane today i'm in the chicagoland area in this past couple days it's snow right

it's like literally there's people who can't get out of their door they need help and there's a there's a way to connect to somebody around you and then having tools one of the things we did fast as fast as we could and it all goes

back to what we're talking about here of how are you meeting the need for those that you're serving and so go back to last summer it was as fast as possible creating a help map it's literally just a tool that people

can literally connect with each other help me get to the pharmacy help me get to the the grocery store just literally giving people the tools to do what they need to and then it's the neighbors it's not just the members of the community it's

for example helping the small businesses how do i do takeout and gift cards and all the things that would allow me to to continue to even continue on and so i just think all of that when you say

dare for us we're going to continue to dare to conquer loneliness we're going to dare to really bring people together and have a neighborhood specifically they can rely on because the the yield of that the result of that is a kinder world

and so whatever we're going through as long as we have people around us to tap into we know that will make a difference i love this this this whole idea of cultivating a kind of world or equally actually as a big dare to go

on use online to go offline but um going back to the first one cultivating a kind of world how do you deal with people that are less kind um is there a way to um exclude people or is it is it just

inclusive at any cost or what how do you how do you go but how do you pull it police these things yeah if i may just jump in because you help us cover a audience question here so specifically

an audience question was how do you balance between the nurturing and also protecting the brand because the community can go into strange directions as we know now we've learned the hard way oh absolutely and there's nothing easy about this right and so we're using

everything that we can um to make our platform a welcoming platform first and foremost we think the platform should reflect the neighborhood that we're in and so to do that we use product features there's simple things like a kindness reminder

which the machine learning we we're tracking you know prompting people when something doesn't look right we have moderators and this is community based right so there's a volunteers and a team of people that come together to help determine if

something should be pulled down or not if it's appropriate there's other training of of sort of the moderators within communities of like let's take this offline into a group conversation it's not something that's appropriate for broader but with

for for example there's absolutely no place for racism on the platform and so when we all went through last summer there was a lot of work to be done to make sure that everybody's trained to understand that reiterating our community guidelines so

all members all members know exactly what's expected of them and then and then really just making sure that we're monitoring and making it a place that everybody does absolutely feel welcome so win wins are things like this there

was a gentleman in nashville in last summer a black gentleman sean who posted on next door he said i don't feel safe going outside i don't feel sick i can go for a walk in my neighborhood he posted this the reaction was 150

comments saying you shouldn't feel that way in your own neighborhood and we'll go for a walk with you the next day he showed up 75 people showed up with their mask and went for a walk with him so it's

these sorts of stories that just remind us that people will do the right thing when they're kind of given the guidance and people will help each other get there and really just making sure to enable that and make sure people move forward in a

productive way that's wonderful it's really it's it's it's a one it's a wonderful story um how are you organized inside like in terms of your your organization and and um how you run the company is it is it very much

also localized and um democratically uh spread out or is it is it more organized and structured and hierarchically sure so we're in 11 countries right 270 000 neighborhoods around the world and really from an operations standpoint we're based in san francisco

we have spots around the world as we need to but i think a big big piece of what makes us successful is our our community leads right so we have people and and as we put out the ask for people who

want to be reviewers or who want to be boosters or who want to play a specific role in the community it's a volunteer base of hundreds of thousands of people right so we really do that we're able to

really um push through them so it gets closer and closer to the community itself uh in terms of getting the right information and feedback that we need to help them in moderating and and making sure everybody again feels

welcome on the platform and has the tools that they need to help each other so it is through and through localized really down to the like yes which makes total sense do you by the way i see you're outdoor do you go off

alone um since we're all online these days you know do you do you really have a lot of opportunity to go out oh in terms of out in my neighborhood yeah no out of your house and out of

out of out of webinars and into the real world again you know okay we can't wait for more of it um but i think we all have that same sense and we think this is the year to get back in

real life and looking forward to that but more than anything it's helping people down to your neighborhood what's open where can i participate in what's going on it actually this gets down to like the information we're providing today

is specifically where can i get the vaccine specifically is there 25 in dining or not like where can i literally go out and are the schools open today are they pushing it back another day in chicago um those are the very things that are

going on let me take back the virtual microphone here and pretend as if it was a real panel um but it's it's a good segue because what you both are talking about is it translates also to the physical world

the outdoor world etc because i think i remember deborah you told me about organizing even a next door event and going to it in your neighborhood and discovering and meeting neighbors you never met before even though you've lived there for ages which leads

me to one of the uh participant questions here which is a very typical one that makes me a bit sad or yes which is if you had to use one single channel and i guess we're talking about media channels here

to tell the world about your mission which one would it be and my gut reaction always is this is not about a channel this is not about tick tock versus snapchat versus facebook versus tv ad um it really always translates to

any expression of your brand right but i'm biased probably so i want to throw it out to any of our panelists if you had to pick a single channel uh which channel would you tell your mission through and if nobody's yeah i would use my own

channel right so next door again and really it's because it can impact literally your date your real life um by using online to get offline but isn't your strongest channel actually word of mouth that might not be within your community

at first i think that it inspires the word of mouth right so i think it's become the new age word of mouth in fact of people being able to connect very specifically and very directly um and it allows the scalability

i'd be interested tom yeah that's your thought just to build on that uh you know from our end uh if we had to pick one channel uh it would be earn media is uh is uh where we try to tell the story as much as

possible and i think if you have purpose uh uh as you know all the co-panelists here deeply do the media will want to tell your story uh and that creates a very high authenticity uh uh opportunity uh as well as uh

you know something that can then really sort of spread from there and sort of take on its own messaging so you can get a lot of really good feedback on how to hone the message and think it through so for us

earned media by far is the big one i call that a sneaky answer with my students because really you're talking about a lot of different channels that you are actually in whether it's tv radio podcasts and so on what i would say

though is the thing with earn media as a channel right it could be i would say you know you could you could say it's a radio show a tv you know and so on but it has a level of

uh where you're giving the control to a third party to then tell the story as they see it you're not like a tv commercial you control the narrative you know uh in every and every bit and i think what's what's interesting is

the there's in today's brands the more you give control to the audience the the better it is honestly and the more you try to control it yourself i think the less authentic and the less it will spread that is if you truly live your mission

not if you have found out on social media and they said look what they do but but interestingly you're not paying is that right is that still right you're not paying for a single ad or communication yet even though you hit millions of them

every month is that correct tom that's right i'll go one step further is we run a negative cost marketing department uh so our marketing department actually generates revenue uh versus spends uh and we do that by really working with

our partners uh to you know where they fund us to help amplify their messages around the programs they run with us right so uh that gets a beautiful mutual beneficial uh approach and i think this is another sort of important piece

every organization has many partners it works with and every partner has a megaphone excellent and you had even a reality show i don't know if you could we did it four seasons in 20 countries that's right yeah absolutely that's a great example of

negative cost marketing by the way you the the tv show you know we were getting five figure checks per episode and it is in itself uh a form of uh you know uh of a commercial if you will

or or content but you can generate content that generates revenue okay i hope that answers the question also by somebody who said so do you mean pr i guess almost everything is pr in that sense uh but it was very specific thank you for

that there is another question here that i think would be interesting for dave to take a shot at which is if i understand the question right is you know with all this mission and purpose uh being so central nowadays

to brands aren't platform brands direct to consumer brands i.e many of the startup brands aren't they advantaged because they can talk directly and they don't need to go through mass retailers how do you how do you fulfill your mission and get it across

to people when you have to go through supermarkets and mass merchandisers and not only uh connect directly with your consumer i think it's true point of purchase is a very very uh limited channel for our communications uh you know you've got

you've got your your your freezer and you know whatever is on pack and uh but but most of our communication is as it would be with a direct-to-consumer business through uh through social media and and as tom does we we have been very

successful leveraging a lot of earned media across the channels uh you know you can only give a night turn on the television and uh you know watch colbert or somebody eating ben and jerry's um uh but uh you know the the social media

is is is what we most exploit and use and uh well obviously a lot of third-party sharing out there and the reach is you know uh incredible and it's you know it's it's being relevant to the conversations that people are in

right and we see that i mean even if the mission is not and it does not have to be in fact it should not be about social you know political or ecological causes if your company cannot really stand for

it as an organization but even with other missions like giving you superhuman powers i.e red bull you can see with their where they spread their mission and their myth outside the supermarket and in the supermarket frankly it looks almost like

any other brand almost so a lot of that happens outside the retail channel uh wolfgang i have a question for you here in the audience that i know you love because we tackle these all the times which is

um you know it's fine to talk about newly created brands or brands that always had a mission but how do you do this when you're an older brand how do you approach a refresh and create relevance for a new generation

um actually it's it's off well it's harder from an executional standpoint it's often easier from a um [Music] from a story standpoint because you if you go back to the source um and and i've done that numerous times it's often forgotten like

oh in the course of time people and organizations forget and if you go back to the original founding there usually was a purpose there was a mission that was beyond just making money i mean there are those two but for most reason

most most uh times brands started with an idea with an ideal with the with a purpose that goes beyond just being profitable as tom was saying going in and if you find that if you go back to that and find that and make that come

alive in the organization um that's that's half the story that is uh that's how you have to do it and that's the only way the hard part then is to change the organization transform to really get close to that

purpose again um if if you've lost weight on that right right there is a question here which is interesting turn on things um uh almost has become rhetoric a question i think uh in the context of our discussion which is

can a marketer brand or company dare to not be an activist or at least have an opinion anyone open to answer i know what my answer is but anyone wants to take a stab at that can you can you dare

not to have an opinion as a brand i'm gonna just start in there i think you it depends on the topic right um and uh each uh of us as you can see here whether next door or ben

jerry's or terracycle have a domain expertise an area that i believe if you have a domain expertise or you're going to declare it as such as i just did you have to have an opinion when it touches your domain

but there are so many topics infinite amount of topics whether we care about people planet you know uh animals and so on and so forth that there's many things that uh uh are outside that domain expertise and then i

don't think you have to have a point of view uh you know an example is like terracycle does not have a point of view on say colin kaepernick as ben and jerry does and ben and jerry should right and uh uh but you know vice versa

there's many things that we will think about that a brand like ben and jerry would not uh you know touch uh you know not because they don't care but because it may not be the expertise and i think that is is a key

question is where on the spectrum of should you know do you declare expertise in that area uh uh you know should drive whether you then are proactive and have an opinion on that topic hey deborah we'll leave the last word to

you when we think about that having an opinion how do you manage that as a platform where there are so many opinion and often opposing ones do you have a point of view uh an opinion are you even

activist uh uh on something or do you need to step back as a as a platform brand you know what it's a simple answer actually i think it is consistent across of being welcoming and inclusive right so we we have to welcome all the opinions

and thoughts and ideas um because that's that's what neighborhoods are they're a collection of people and what we love about that in fact is the humanness right it's a completely human fact um and and neighborhoods what they do is they do bring people together with

different interests so by virtue of literally those around you you're gonna get connected and hear different points of view so we actually think of that as promoting civil discourse which we all should be doing so um we can only embrace the differences

of those around us and just really just insist on an inclusive welcoming platform so all feel well all feel like they can express themselves excellent and it sounds like you know um i think you said earlier you know look

at this as uh forming healthy neighborhoods that is almost a dare and an activist step forward uh in the current environment so unfortunately everyone we're running out of time we want to be respectful of your time and they

and end exactly at 15 being the good germans also that at least wolff and i are um if you uh so thanks to all the other panelists as well even if you're not german um just kidding um if you want to more know more about

uber brands brand elevation etc uh then sign up to my premium brand strategy class just a little a little plug here if you're too old for that or you don't want to go back to school then you can always dive

into the books we talked about brand elevation and rethinking prestige branding and if you're cheap and you want to get it all for free that's possible too at uberbrands.com tons of case studies podcasts and so on and with that i want

to hand back to matt who will tell us about other exciting events that the global brand leadership center is going to do thanks for hosting us again matt great and thank you all let's give a virtual round of applause to all our

panelists as jp called for and uh yes give you all a chance to say uh thank you for being here and uh it was great i was nodding left and right while off camera and uh wishing wanting to pipe in um all sorts of my

thoughts because there was a lot of great insights here and a lot of great questions from our audience too of course um so it was a great interaction really enjoyed things here uh many of you obviously are already on

our mailing list but you can just plug in the center on global brand leadership you'll find our website and you can sign up for our mailing list if you got here through another channel i hear about our other events we have

one a monday coming up on hr and its impact on transforming leadership done in partnership with an uh event platform called ascend which is looking at how we uh drive more inclusivity into leadership over the course of 2021

um so really happy to be partnering with them on that uh have a great group of panels from minovalan and deloitte uh and one of our our former faculty at columbia university on human capital management and then for

those of you who may be aware or not uh last thing i'll plug here is to save the date april 16th for our bright conference uh on brands innovation and technology we're forming a great lineup already we have the chief marketing officer of cbs

health and visa along with some of our own faculty and other faculty and executives talking about a range of things involving inclusivity digital transformation uh the future of haptic computer human interfaces etc so uh for those who have not

uh been around to a uh in-person bright uh you can enjoy it virtually on april 16th and with that i will wish everyone a good day and a good time building your brands bye thank you you