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So, some of you might not realize, but we actually host a weekly podcast where we cover three major topics: code, capital, and content. And because the feedback and momentum of our podcast has been so great, we decided to actually
Live podcast episode discussing Apple's AR glasses, OpenAI devices, and AI's impact on SaaS, featuring Immersed's CEO and team insights.
Ask about this video. Answers come from its transcript only — with the timestamp, so you can check them.
Generated from the transcript and can be wrong — check the timestamp.
Key Takeaways
- Immersed is a leading VR productivity app with a strong user base and engagement.
- Visor headset aims to provide a lightweight, affordable, and fully featured AR device for professional use.
- Understanding the founders and team is crucial when evaluating startups beyond their product pitch.
- AI is becoming a core part of immersive work tools, enhancing productivity and user interaction.
- The AR/VR hardware market is evolving with new entrants like Apple and Immersed focusing on different niches.
What the video covers
- Immersed hosts a live podcast covering code, capital, and content with a focus on their AR productivity app and hardware.
- Renji Bjoy, CEO of Immersed, shares the company’s vision of virtual office glasses enabling multi-screen workspaces anywhere.
- Immersed app has over 1.6 million users and nearly 2 billion views, with users spending more time in VR than on smartphones.
- The company is developing Visor, a lightweight, professional AR headset with superior specs to Apple Vision Pro at a lower price.
- Visor features six degrees of freedom, hand and eye tracking, and targets enterprise use at around $1,000 per unit.
- The podcast discusses the importance of understanding the team behind a company, not just the pitch or product.
- Immersed has raised about $40 million, participated in Techstars Chicago, and holds a dominant position on the Meta Quest store.
- The episode touches on AI integration in their product, including a feature called Curator for enhanced user experience.
- The discussion also covers broader industry trends like Apple’s smart glasses launch plans and AI’s disruption of SaaS.
- The format allows listeners to gain insights into market signals, product development, and investment opportunities.
Chapters
- 00:00Introduction and Podcast Format Overview
- 03:04Understanding the Team and Company Vision
- 06:21User Engagement and Market Position
- 09:15Investment Round and Call to Action
- 12:10Future of AI and Immersive Technology
- 18:26Apple Smart Glasses and Industry Trends
- 25:03Social and Practical Aspects of AR Glasses
- 29:00Closing Thoughts and Additional Insights
Full Transcript — Download SRT & Markdown
Speaker A
bring that podcast live on our webinar and do all of this live. So, this is a first time for us and we're super excited to have you all tune in. Many of you were interested in
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investing in the company, and so we want to officially kick things off. So here we go.
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[music] Welcome to another episode of Immersed into the Future podcast. I am Josh Curry Quesu, aka Jake Curry, and I am joined with the founder of Immersed, CEO by day and coder by night, Renji Bjoy. Welcome, Renji.
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Thanks. We also have BBQ Pitmaster and AI Maxi, Ryan Elpresidente. Yep. Good to have you, Ryan.
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Excited to be here. Also, CEO of winthercroll.com, tired dad of three, John W. Key Rush. How you feeling, John?
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I feel like I'm on my third coffee. So, I feel fantastic.
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Good to hear. I think I'm on my third as well. And we also have a brand new face on the podcast this week, and we're
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super excited to introduce him. He is a world-traveling Mandarin-speaking math prodigy who skipped pretty much all of high school to go straight to the university math degree. His name is Clifford Champion. So, good to have you,
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Cliff. How you feeling?
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Feeling good. Only one coffee, so I have some catching up.
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Feeling like a champion. Feeling like a champion. All right. Well, first off, for those who came to learn specifically about Immerse, Renji is going to give you the rundown. Go ahead, Renji.
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Also, by the way, we realize that there are not only a lot of new faces, but also people who are interested in learning more about the company. But also one thing that's actually really cool about doing this
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sort of podcast-type format is you get to really understand the people behind this, right? So more than just knowing what's the market, you know, what's the opportunity, all that type of stuff, you know, I've made the mistake
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in the past of investing in companies that have a good pitch, but the operators are just not the right people.
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Like, you know, they call it jockey versus horse. It was the wrong jockey but the right horse. Even I personally have invested in a company that I thought was an amazing pitch, but they just hired the wrong people. And
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after like six months of me having invested in that company, for example, they let go a couple of the C-suite. I'm like, this is not at all the company I thought I was investing in. So more than just hearing the pitch, I think one
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really cool aspect of this format is you get to understand us. How do we think? How do we talk? How do we react to different market signals? And sure, the pitch itself obviously is going to serve its purpose. But obviously this
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is going to be quite an obvious pitch. This is something that a lot of the tech giants are pouring tens of billions of dollars into, and we're the most used app in that space, and now we're getting
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into building hardware specific—well, our hardware that is specific to our particular use case, and that's why we kind of are able to take over our market. So the vision is you put on a pair of glasses, you teleport to the
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virtual office. Post-COVID, this obviously has been a very obvious use case. But pre-COVID, people thought I was psycho by trying to code some software to connect this Google Cardboard that's behind me and be able to connect my laptop and have virtual screens in a VR
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environment. But moving forward to today, it's more of an obvious use case. You could have your laptop and any headset—Meta, Apple, our Visor, other headsets—and be able to have five full-resolution screens with you anywhere you
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go. So, your desk, your porch, your, you know, the airport, hotel room, etc. Any sort of environment you're in, you have your entire workstation with you. But before I get deeper into that, I'm just going to do a breeze through
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because we want to get to the rest of the podcast as well. My background, before Immerse, I was a lead software architect at CNN working on a project called greatbigstory.com. We grew that to about three million daily active
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users within two months. After that, I decided to not work on more time-waster apps and decided to quit that and focus on a PhD in computer vision and machine learning. So, self-driving cars, autonomous drones, things like that at
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Georgia Tech. But after about three and a half years, I realized that research papers were kind of boring to write. So I then decided to found Immersed back in 2017. Cliff, you can read his background there as well.
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Very, very impressive. Josh, head of content. Ryan, partnerships. Okay. You can dig into our LinkedIn if you want to learn more or watch our previous investor webinar. Yeah, been around for about nine years. We
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actually are now soon about across about $40 million raised to date. So very thankful, very excited that we're continuing to grow this company. We went through Techstars Chicago, top 0.1% of all companies, startups worldwide.
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We're about to cross over 1.6 million users. But the more impressive stat is that they spent over two millennia or 2,000 years in our app with these big blocky brick headsets like the Meta Quest and others. And
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just through our social media and people talking about it and really just us even pushing our own content, we've crossed over 1.6 billion—I think actually 1.88 billion views now. We had better reviews than Meta, but Meta no
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longer has their app on their store anymore for work. Now, essentially, Immerse is—I don't want to say monopoly, but we are pretty much the main work productivity app on the Meta Quest store. And so, these numbers
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are a lot lower than what they actually are now because the fact that we have absorbed a pretty massive user base as Meta has shut down their workrooms app, a competitive app. But the cool part here is our app obviously has
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way more five-star reviews than one-star reviews, whereas Meta unfortunately, at the time, makes sense why they shut it down, had more one-star reviews than five-star reviews. We have users in every
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country on planet Earth, and the cool part is our users spend more time in headset than they spend looking at their smartphone. So even think about yourself, for example, if you were using our app 30, 40, 50, 60 hours a week every week. Well,
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you only use your smartphone 20 hours a week. The fact that we have users who are working in app with computer screens, co-working more than 40 plus hours every week, that's something interesting, something meaningful. So obviously, you know, it's a great pitch. We have an
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awesome software, awesome product. We're now building our use-case-specific headset called Visor. If you go to visor.com, it is 70% lighter weight than the Apple Vision Pro, so it only weighs about 6 ounces, which is lighter than
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your iPhone and has 2 million more pixels than the Apple Vision Pro. And it looks professional, something that's thin and sleek you could wear in a public setting. It has the full functionality you get with all these. So, their
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six degrees of freedom tracking headsets, hand tracking, eye tracking, etc., so it's not a stripped-down type of device. And it only costs about $1,000, not $4,000 like the Apple Vision Pro. So, if you think about how we're
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positioning ourselves, it's not like a cheap, cheap plastic heavy toy thing like the Meta Quest headsets. It's not $4,000 per employee that you buy this for at your organization or at your company.
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It's only about $1,000. The lightest weight six degrees of freedom—sorry, lightest weight standalone full-featured 4K resolution headset available on the market. And we also have the AI aspect here as far as our product,
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where we're able to, for the first time ever, no—
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that's what we've been working on called curator. Uh we can get deeper into that in another conversation, but feel free there's a to check it out. There's demo demonstration videos on my Twitter account or X account. Um there's a robot
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robotics uh angle to this as well where all these tech giants who are um trying to build these humanoid robotics that are autonomous. They are trying to use VR headsets to have handtracking, body tracking, eye tracking, all of that to
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give some level of intelligence to um these humanoids. But the problem is that there isn't a thin sleek device that people want to wear for that many hours per week. Like the MetaQuest headsets, you start getting neck pain after a
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couple of hours. And so you're not able to collect data at that type of scale.
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So that's an effort that Immerse is working on as well. And it's exciting because all the tech giants again they're pouring tens of billions into our space. Um we are the most used app in that space and we're building
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obviously a device that's a lot more streamlined for the work use case. Um we are the David to these Goliaths and so really excited for us to um bring all of our friends, family, users, followers, everyone along this ride. And uh yeah,
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Lord willing, someday we're not merely going to be just a startup, but rather one of the tech giants who are leading this next generation of computing post smartphone, post laptop called spatial computing. An immersive sort of holographic type of experience that AI
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exists in as opposed to like a chat interface on your phone, which we all know that's not going to be the future of computing the next two, three, five, 10 years. Um yeah, bunch of press if you just Google us and uh yeah, the market
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is anyone who uses a computer or a smartphone. Pretty massive market. I will stop there.
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That was great. Thank you, Reggie. Appreciate it. So, we do have a lot to discuss today on the podcast. Before that, Ryan, I know that you do have uh some more info on the round that you do want to share. Uh so, you can go ahead.
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Great. Thanks. Yeah. So, as a reminder, our regulation A+ round is closing tomorrow at 11:59 p.m. Eastern Standard Time. Uh if you've been looking to invest or reinvest in this round, um anything that you invest in this round
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with multiple times is considered cumulative. So you can earn up to uh 20% bonus shares. So um go to invest invest.
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Uh for more details. Thank you, Ryan. Appreciate it. You know, on top of all the stuff that we had to talk about in terms of company news, uh number one, Reggie uh Renji can't stop leaking stuff. You can uh you
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can check his ex account for that. Uh Ren, do you want to hit on that a little bit?
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Yeah, I don't. [laughter] TLDDR, we're working on future hardware. I'm really excited about it. Um it's funny like the tech giants, they um at first when we were talking about building this type of device. I didn't want to build it. Immerse didn't want to
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build it. We approached Meta and Microsoft and Dell and Google and others saying, "Can you build this type of form factor?" A form factor that is thin and sleek. It's a professional looking type of device. is something that uh everyday
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people would want to use, not just VR uh niche sort of sort of gaming hobbyist type users and all of them said we understand you have a lot of user usage however we've just mainly been focused on gaming so we're going to keep doing
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that and that's why we decided okay I guess we're going to have to build this ourselves and it's been so cool to see because of the amount of reception and excitement around this type of form factor then all the tech giants started
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to decide you know what we're going to do this too and so we would love for them to build these types of devices moving forward because that means that our app our software will also exist on those headsets. And if Meta sells 20
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million of their version of Viser, then we get as many of those users as possible as well. And that's the cool part about being a software and hardware company is we get access to that entire user base. And we essentially the Zoom
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of ARVR, but also when the tech giants release their version of Visor, we'll we'll already have our Visor 2 ready.
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And I'm excited for us to just stay ahead of the competition. And uh again, it's very clear this is where AI is headed, the way that these worlds are sort of converging together. Obviously, our team is is is excited. Uh, actually
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I do want to Josh, can I play that Sam Alman clip actually? Yeah. Actually very I thought this was super compelling. By the way, real quick context. This is the founder of OpenAI, Sam Alman. If you don't know who this
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is, he was the former president of Y Cominator. He's one of the earliest investors in all these massive companies like Reddit, Twitch, Stripe, Airbnb.
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He's a multi multi-billionaire before he ever uh co-founded OpenAI to begin with. Um, but he uh obviously was essentially the father of kind of AI in a sense in a lot of ways. He wasn't the inventor of the transformer architecture for large
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language models necessarily, but he was the one who kind of brought these teams together. And he's a world-renowned um mentor in the startup space because he ran Y Cominator, the world's number one accelerator program. And now obviously he's running this trillion dollar
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company, OpenAI, the the company that builds Chat GPT. So uh he's going to talk about how it was so obvious to all of them a long long time ago. Uh and and he's going to get deeper into it. So let
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me just rewind this real quick just 15 seconds and we'll rewatch that just to give you some context.
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is find the things that you can develop like reasonable conviction in that people decide like the conventional wisdom is they're just wrong and be okay with it taking a long time and having people be like very you know very frustratingly wrong and
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dismissive for years at OpenAI it felt like we knew the biggest secret in the world everybody was calling us an idiot it uh and we had increasing data points to convince ourselves we weren't delusional and it was very frustrating. It was
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extremely frustrating. Um but it looking back it was like an incredible gift because it meant we didn't have this like massive competitors and we had time to do our research and build our stuff and build our company. Um, and I've
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since noticed that this is the case for like a a lot of companies in different ways.
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They they end up doing something that other people that like experts in the field or the industry are convinced is a very bad idea. Um, and on the other side of this, if you're starting the same startup as everybody
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else, it's like you get a lot of hype and you can raise a lot of money, but it's it's sort of like those are much less frequently the big option, the big outcomes. So if I were you all, I would
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figure out what the really big brand new thing is that is possible now that wasn't possible a few years ago. In our case, it was no AI had really been working and then the deep learning magic moment happened and the world didn't
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update enough. The world, this is another great PGism, the world does not understand how to intuitit exponentials.
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So they missed this one. There's got to be new exponentials forming right now. I don't know what they are. But if you can figure those out and if you can develop continuing conviction based on more data, be grateful that the world doesn't
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understand. The TLDDR here, even in our case, for example, is the stuff that we're building. Again, the tech giants are pouring tens of billions into the next gener generation of computing. We're the most used uh software in that space. And
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now we're building use case specific hardware in in a vertical that is a need to have, not a nice to have. It's so obvious to us behind the scenes. And what happened to OpenAI was it was so obvious to them. He he he mentioned in a
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separate podcast, Sam Alman mentioned in a separate podcast that um he felt like there was only 50 people in the world who knew that this was obvious and 45 of them worked at OpenAI. Likewise here, like there's probably only like 50
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people on Earth who on Earth who like actually know how obvious what we're building is. And this is why it makes it fairly easy for immers to get ahead of the competition and likely for years to come. And we will likely continue to uh
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keep growing and compounding. And you know, I personally am not invested in Meta because Meta is already a $ 1.5 trillion company. the chances that they're going to become a two trillion three trillion dollar and I 2x my money
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is much much lower than a startup like us whose valuation is much much lower and the upside is much much higher. So that's why for us, we're all the guys on our team, we're all in on this thing,
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right? Um and and we're super grateful that like like Sam was saying, it's a blessing in disguise that the world doesn't see this yet because it allows us to carve a path that others are not getting in the way of and now we're just
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able to almost uh permissionlessly build this future. And again, if you think about what is the future of AI in general, it's probably not going to be the chat interface on your phone. it's probably going to be an immersive
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holographic type of experience where AI is able to live uh in the world with you. And obviously this type of glasses form factor gives you access to do that.
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Um the the reason why I bring this up is because when it comes to what does the future, you know, someone texted one of the investors uh that I I'm close personal friends with text me this morning asking uh what's next for
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Immerse. Obviously we're uh shipping Visor through mass production throughout the course of this year. Um and we'll have more announcements for the exact timeline for which batches uh next month. But uh and so that's obviously that that's that's going to happen. Uh
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but other things that we're moving forward on obviously is next generation hardware number one. Number two raising additional rounds at higher valuations based on shipping product based on new demos and iterations and inventing new things that just haven't existed before.
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And so for us this is just the beginning right? is very obvious to us today. But uh and I've had all the time I've had friends who uh would tell me, "Man, I wish I had invested years ago and like
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it was obvious to us back then." Like our our conviction hasn't changed. It's literally the same as it was 9 years ago. uh and then even more postcoid and every year the conviction just grows and the fact that all these different
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verticals in the AR uh adjacent to the ARVR space like AI or or um streaming technology or different things it or internet technology like Starlink it's only moving things in a direction robotics humanoid robotics it's only moving in a direction that ARVR really
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benefits from. So it's cool that Meta had carved a path and unfortunately kind of focused on the gaming niche uh competing with Xbox and PlayStation which unfortunately they haven't really won that battle. Um, and for us, we're focusing on the work use case. And you
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can't, no one can pitch us telling telling us that having more flexibility with work is a worse pitch. It's worse than today's rigid static uh, version of it where we are literally little tiles on your screen as opposed to it feeling
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like we're together in a virtual room, almost physical room, where when you get too close to me, we both feel like there's just invasion of personal space.
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Whereas on, you know, if you get close to this camera, it's not going to feel like that. So anyways, moving forward for us, I'm I'm fairly deeply plugged into kind of the Austin billionaire network. A lot of these people are early
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investors in SpaceX and OpenAI and some of these companies and uh they're now starting to inquire to me asking, hey, like based on what I'm seeing, the web SAS world is getting obliter obliterated by all these AI coding agents. Like
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there there's there's no moes in just the software world. We're starting to now get into hardware. can you please demo some of your stuff to us because we want to get more involved in hardware and want to get more involved with the
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next generation of computing and we're super excited. Obviously, there's a lot of stuff I can't announce that we're having conversations behind the scenes for what this looks like uh the next sort of version of immerse as we grow
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and scale. Uh but yeah, I'll pause there. I don't want to share too much.
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I mean, Alman said it right. They felt like they had the biggest secret in the world. Everybody was calling them idiots. Uh and they increasingly had data points that, you know, they almost had to convince themselves that they
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weren't delusional. Sam mentioned that it was a gift, right? Because it allowed them to continue to do their research while the competition was kind of focused elsewhere. My my question is how do you get a product to mass adoption
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when you know that it's inevitable but it's in its nent stages and how do you think that opening accomplished this during a time when really no one thought it was possible? I guess Cliff, I'm curious on your thoughts on that.
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Yeah, well it's it's a process, right? You start with your your instincts. You start with some intuition. You start with some signal from the market. uh and kind of like what uh Sam was describing um you arrive at a position of um I
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think he used the term reasoned conviction or reasonable conviction and then you you build you build build but um you know one one of the interesting examples I like to point to uh chat GPT as an example right um the concept of a
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GPT existed before chat GPT uh but the GPT before chat GPT was not userfacing uh you had to be quite technical to know how to use it. Uh it was by today's standards very limited. Um but one of
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the insights that um I would frame is kind of the last 20% because almost any product that you want to build uh the 8020 rule applies and and getting that last 20% done is what triggers the inflection point. Um and so you know
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building on say Sam and the team's intuition leading up to chat GPT they they knew intuitively that the technology was ready to have a big moment but that last 20% in their case right happened to be uh uh post training
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right the the GPT as a foundation model had all the technological capability in it but the last 20% was how do you get that to users how do you make that easy to use low friction easy to on board um
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And the post-training concept that allowed a GPT to be a helpful assistant basically was the last kind of uh design insight and technical insight. Um but impossible without all the just raw technology that had been developed leading up to that point. And so I kind
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of liken it to the VR space as well, right? Like years and years and years and years of oh we know this will make a big difference. the technology is getting better and better and better, but where's that last 20% moment, right?
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Um, and for me, I think that's uh is the device light enough? Does the device look good enough to wear? Right? So, you don't feel awkward wearing it, right?
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So, that's why I think in this 8020 rule analogy, I think immerse were like solving that last 20%. I know Renji like you initially had uh the conviction I just I remember back in 2023 um and even before that you were having
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conversations about hardware um because it was kind of just like on your mind the whole time but uh the conviction you know when even going to the tech giants and them not wanting to pursue this and then you really having that conviction
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of like no we need to pursue this. So what's the parallel here for spatial computing?
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Yeah. Um, I mean, I think that we've already seen this before. There was the mainframe, then the desktop, laptop, smartphone, iPads, whatever. And there's always a a new medium that whether it takes 20 years, 30 years, 5 years, two
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years, there's always a next generation to improve because that's just how capitalism works. Every competitor is trying to figure out a way to have a leg up on their competition. The reason why Meta had acquired Oculus, for example,
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wasn't actually for gaming. it was to build this sort of next device after smartphones because historically the Facebook app or the Facebook website was always subject to the gatekeepers hardware like Apple or Google or Microsoft and they never were able to
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break out of that and so moving forward they want to be the device that people adopt as glasses and you know they kind of took this meta ray bands approach for content creators it's a very different type of product I wouldn't really use
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that for uh a need to have sort of use case like work but we have also identified and obviously you know I'm like I don't know a decade or half a decade younger than Zuckerberg so I haven't been in this world as deeply or
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as for as long as Zuckerberg has been. But I think that's also my advantage that I know what is the next generation actually looking forward to actually using these devices for and I'm I'm down to be part of that race. I think that
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when we think about spatial computing and AI's overlap. AI right now is just a a a heristic for almost like just um simulating what text should come next.
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That's kind of what transformer architecture is mainly made for is you ask me a question what words do I use to answer your question like what's the next word in line whereas spatial computing is a whole other type of
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paradigm where you're literally talking about existing in a physical world based on in time based in space and it's something that uh AI doesn't really have a deep concept for this actually opens up a whole new vertical for us to
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innovate in and invent things that just haven't existed before right how do you um have an AI that knows how to exist exist and coexist in a world with other entities and beings like humans and pets and other things. So I guess sort of um
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this kind of like cracks open uh a whole new dimension of innovation that we just haven't seen before. So it I think it's we have line of sight towards our current iterations of things. But we don't even know in the next 5 years all
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the different types of things that we're going to be able to invent that just didn't exist before because we're no longer locked into a two-dimensional screen. Now we're moving into 4D, right?
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Right. Not not just three dimensions, but now a fourth dimension additional uh additionally with time as well.
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Yeah. And then while others were uh you know trying to figure out how to incorporate controllers onto their headsets or hard drive space um it was really design uh that was something that it needs to fit into society and people
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want need to be willing to adopt it. And so that kind of being uh the last 20%.
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John, what has been your perception of I mean you you're looking at this from the a user of Apple products, a user of Meta products, a user of even Xbox, PlayStation and how that adjacently is related to VR gamingish
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technology perspective. Yeah. Yeah. Especially especially the Apple angle, right? I think recently they uh were talking about some leaks about the glasses being shown at WDC either this year or next year or something. It makes me think that part of I think the
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iPhone's huge success into mass market was because cell phones like there had been some level of foundation built upon them and it seemed like there was some appreciation for the the current user habits um and a respect given for how
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people are currently using a medium and then building on that. Um, when I think about like how they tried to go after the gaming world, um, or even, you know, the the state of NFTts, um, a as a
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gamer, I go, not a single gamer was asking for a headset and and they just weren't. And they were asking for better monitors. They they fundamentally to move a gamer onto a headset would have been to erode decades of muscle
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training, learning, and skill that a lot of them, especially the ones that are older, didn't have time to do. And so then what are you trying to do? You're trying to convince a younger generation to adopt, you know, these these hardware
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apparatus. Um, same thing with NFTs. NFTs were this this fabricated idea of digital collectibles. Um, that by and large I think is not gone well. Um, when instead I think the right market move would have been to appreciate and have
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respect for what was already there, which is um, video game skins. Counter-Strike has been selling um digital goods at six figures for almost 20 years and and and I think there's a respect that needs to be given to what
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currently is so that you can actually innovate going forward. It seems to me that Sam and his team had a bit more of a respect of going we know something they don't know and we're going to take our time to to to prove the theory. And
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my first interaction with with chat um was it just worked. And I think that's people's interaction with iPhone. I think that's been people's interaction with any of the products immersed has made. It just works. It works given the
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the realm that it seeks to occupy. And so I I I think that that's part of the patient Sam is talking about is the respect for how people are currently operating um in in a given sphere. I mean, I think electronic cars, we talk
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we talk about our Teslas all the time on this show, but but again, Teslas are just a better version of the things we've already had. And um I think that there's a lot to be said about how innovation is less about literally
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pulling something from nothing and more it like ideulating um and creating iterations of things that are already being, you know, utilized in the human experience and just taking it to to new levels. you know, train locomotives were so explosive because the alternative to
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locomotives were were were wagons, you know, with oxen, you know, and then automobiles were so uh uh um fastly adopted because they took trains and, you know, etc., etc., etc. So, I just think that there's I just think you have
Speaker A
to respect the market. You have to respect the human experience while innovating. You can't just like I think Zuck was just like, "Look, everyone, you should want this because I am Mark Zuckerberg." And and I just I don't
Speaker A
think that's how humans work. You know, I would even say I think we talked about the the wearables.
Speaker A
I think it's disrespectful to most humans to think that just because Kylie Jenner modeled a couple of glasses [laughter] that everyone's just going to buy it. We got a little bit of blowback.
Speaker A
It's just it's just disrespectful. By and large, humans are creatures of utility. They are creatures of adopting things that just work and make it better. And I um and I think I I think the failures in the metaverse space,
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spatial computing um has has been um been an example of this. Yeah. I think also in addition like I guess another way to phrase it is don't try to force people to create new habits. Just come alongside the habits
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they already have and enhance it. Make it a better experience. Make it a 10x experience of what it already is.
Speaker A
Likewise, when it comes to us, for example, when you're putting on a headset, you have the same screens that you have in the real world. We're not turning your web browsers into this 3D content or anything. For us, it's more
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you can just move your screens now. You're able to like lay down on your bed and watch TV with a television on your ceiling. You're able to now have your co-workers in that space as if you were in the physical office. It's stuff that
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you're already used to doing. You're just now able to do it with much more flexibility and much more autonomy and agency. Um I think likewise when it comes to chatbt for example, they really, you know, people were already
Speaker A
going to Google and they were already searching stuff and then getting information out. People were already doing their own research. Now they just made that much more uh easy to to solve.
Speaker A
They you you ask the question and it does all that hard work for you and then gives you the end results. And I love the fact that even the new devices that OpenAI is trying to work on like they
Speaker A
might work on some recording devices. They might work on you know like a smartphone replacement they are not focused on how does the how does the the user interact through the apps and all these types of things. They're just
Speaker A
focused on what is the end result of what the user wants out of it. I think isn't that isn't didn't I say like in that when that happened a few months ago like they're actually they're not looking to even replace the phone right
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away. They're looking to create a third device. I think that's so smart. It just that's just that's just brilliant.
Speaker A
Yeah. Instead of creating new habits like people are already used to having their smartphone. It's going to have to be an iterative process and eventually you can kind of migrate them away. John, just to kind of push back on a little
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bit, it could be smart if they're focusing on a behavior or something that that that will actually add value to people's lives, but if they're taking a brand new approach, it could be going down that road again where it's trying
Speaker A
to force people. Um, so, you know, we have yet to see, we have yet to find out. My my I early renderings I saw which you guys would know better than me was like this like puck with a camera
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and I immediately thought of like I just put it in my pocket and and as I think what Renji described is is starting to become more and so so we got used to using Google and then like Renji said
Speaker A
people started essentially using chat as just better Google. I think isn't the data crazy like most people still use their AI models for for search like it I think there's some crazy stats that most people are not using agents most people
Speaker A
are not integrating the workflows it's mainly the chat yeah and so to me I think there's this growing longing feeling for people to say I just wish chat was here I wish chat was seeing this and with me and so
Speaker A
I I to me I think if they can cap and whoever capitalizes on that um is going to he's gonna get my money. Whereas Apple Vision was like, "Hey, strap yourself to the Millennium Falcon, you know, and walk around on six hour
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battery." You know, Millennial Falcon. [laughter] Yeah. I'll say what I'm excited about for Visor is um as as somebody in content creation is spatial computing and the abil ability to edit and and coordinate layers at the next level. I
Speaker A
think will be very will be a lot more in line with current human behavior than trying to move gamers from a mouse and keyboard or controller to this. I think I think you'll notice that graphic designers and videographers uh editors
Speaker A
will will switch to spatial computing at a much faster rate um because I think it's more in line with the the current um their current behaviors.
Speaker A
Yeah, there's there's not there's no more limits in regards to like what you can create um when you're not confined uh to a to a small 2D screen. Um but Reggie, you you did allude to this, right? Um, and just to hit on some
Speaker A
industry news here, Apple may be tipping their hand on where they think the future is going to be going. It's reported that they are going to launch their smart glasses in 2027. Obviously, in response to all the smart glass craze
Speaker A
that's happening with Meta, Google, um, and the fact that Apple is finally moving on this, um, you know, or allegedly moving on this, this is something that that the world can't ignore. The tech world can't ignore, I think. So, I'm curious, how do you think
Speaker A
this Apple, you know, releasing uh potentially releasing AR glasses in 2027 will impact immersion?
Speaker A
I want to hear what Cliff's thoughts first and then I'll go after Cliff. Uh, well, I think um the technology is getting lighter, the technology is getting nicer looking, and I think people want a variety of form factors.
Speaker A
People want a variety of devices, right? Some people prefer to wear their smartwatch, some people don't. Some people prefer to carry a phone around all the time, some people don't. Some people like to wear the health rings and
Speaker A
some people don't. Some people have uh like an Amazon Alexa in their home. Um so I think um a diversity I I expect a lot of diversity of different devices and form factors. And overall it it it's kind of like a from a technological
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point of view it's a rising tide that lifts all boats. Um these are all enriching of um kind of abundance uh for how we live. Um and also um you know for a company like Immerse I think just more
Speaker A
exposure to oh wow this is where the technology is today um there's knock-on effects that are absolutely beneficial.
Speaker A
So that that's that's how I look at it. Yeah. So I wanted to add there's this uh thing that we called the ARVR copy loop.
Speaker A
Maybe some of you have seen this before. Um with Meta they essentially they were the first company to really take the leap. Uh they were called Facebook. They renamed to Meta, short for metaverse, and they were trying to push sort of
Speaker A
this spatial computing thing before every anyone else. Then Apple came into the space with Vision Pro. Google came in with their Samsung headset and they all started not really knowing what problem they were trying to solve. It was just cool tech. And when Meta
Speaker A
started coming out with Ray-B bands, then Google came out with their Warby Parker things. And then Apple decided, oh wait, let's pause on our big vision pro headset and instead let's work on these glasses as well. And it's it's
Speaker A
it's not even like Zuckerberg versus Sundar versus Tim Cook or you know John Turnis who's the new CEO of Apple or soon to be um it's really just project managers at these different companies trying to figure out okay what type of
Speaker A
products can we build? Oh is it 4:30? Cool. I'm clocking out. And then they live their real life and the next morning they come in. Okay. Am I going to get in trouble for not actually giving a crap about my product? Uh okay
Speaker A
let me just keep it rating. It's like it's like a very um they have big budgets. They're just throwing uh I guess money at the wall and seeing what sticks. And I think that when it comes to Apple and Meta look, I think that
Speaker A
Meta with the Ray-B bands, they have iterated so much with different types of products. And the Ray-B bands, they started realizing, okay, content creators are starting to like it.
Speaker A
Unfortunately, with the Meta Ray-B bands, it's just like a camera and microphone and and small speakers.
Speaker A
There's no displays in them, so you can't see anything. You could just record your real world. But over 95% of people just consume content. They're not content creators. They're just content consumers. And unfortunately with these glasses, you can't really consume much
Speaker A
of any content. There no displays in them. And so the Meta Rayban glasses for example, that's for, you know, the 5% of people who actually do want to create content. Um, Apple and others, even Samsung and others, they're all working
Speaker A
on a pair of glasses. They call them AI glasses. They don't call them AR glasses that has displays, augmented reality.
Speaker A
They call them artificial intelligence glasses because you can say, "Hey Siri," or, "Hey, Meta." Or whatever. And you could prompt a large language model. No, Siri, stop. See, Siri, they can't even interpret who I'm talking to. um it's just prompting a large language
Speaker A
model on a server somewhere asking it what is what type of tree is this that I'm looking at and it's just not a practical use case um it's not something that's a 10x better experience enough to get me to want to wear something on my
Speaker A
face all day when I already don't do that it's changing my behavior um I think that once they put displays in it then it starts adding some additional value like uh hey I want to be able to read my email respond to text if I'm in
Speaker A
a conversation I want to be able to um see some in some reference or if someone's speaking another language to me, I want to be able to see the actual transcription of what they're saying.
Speaker A
Live translation, things like that. While I'm brushing my teeth in the morning, I want to get my daily brief or my news. While I'm walking out the door, I want my AI to tell me, "Oh, hey, by the way, it's going to be raining today.
Speaker A
You should probably grab an umbrella before you walk out." These are things that AI living life with you is actually going to add value to when you have a pair of glasses. But the type of glasses that Meta and Apple and others are
Speaker A
working on are really just AI glasses for content creators. Um, there's no displays, there's no intelligence like that. My hope is that Apple is able to figure out a way to put displays in there. But unfortunately, in today's uh
Speaker A
uh sort of manufacturing world, no one's really figured out a way to have a decent field of view on these glasses.
Speaker A
Meta has the Meta Rabban displays, which is a 20 degree field of view. It's almost like having an Apple Watch on your face minus any of the utility or or usefulness. And with Apple, my hope is that maybe there's something valuable
Speaker A
there. And then I again, I hope that uh they do sell a lot of these devices so that we can ultimately acquire more immersed users on our software side. And ultimately that helps build our ecosystem. So look, I I'm I'm I'm not uh
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bearish on the fact that Apple and others are moving forward in this space. I'm actually excited because it actually helps immerse a lot on our supply chain side too. If these tech giants are pouring tens of billions and moving, you
Speaker A
know, the earth in order to make sure that the uh suppliers behind the scenes are able to supply the components that all of us need, that's great for immers.
Speaker A
So it's it's again rising tides lifts all raises all boats. Um, I just don't want to.
Speaker A
My only concern is how it turns the uh consumer world into somewhat of a jaded audience. People who are like, "Ah, I don't really care about VR because I don't care about gaming." And it's like, now VR unfortunately is synonymous with
Speaker A
gaming as opposed to and so now people have to try different terminology. Like, no, no, it's mixed reality. It's spatial computing. It's blah blah. It's and we've had to really lean into spatial computing because we don't when we talk
Speaker A
about how technically the visor is a VR and AR headset, it also when we when you market that to an enterprise workforce, they're like, I don't care about a gaming device. Why would I want that?
Speaker A
And so, no, no, it's not gaming. It's it's a work device. So, we have to call it spatial computing, right? So, that's the only concern with um some of these failed attempts. It gets people to be u more skeptical when we start working on
Speaker A
our stuff. And I think it was uh actually really important that like John was saying that OpenAI took their time.
Speaker A
You you know the the the version of Chat GPT before Chat GBT was really just an API that uh publishers were interacting with and it was giving them feedback on uh their their you know book copy and things like that and they loved the
Speaker A
product. It's just back in 2020 or 2021 none of us even knew it existed. Then 2022 and 2023 they started iterating on this chat interface and it started just working for people and that's where it really exploded. And so I think for us
Speaker A
the first, you know, call it five years of immersed on these types of devices, we were kind of iterating with our publishers with people who just like they're willing to wear a two- pound brick thing on their head. There's only
Speaker A
a million and a half people on the planet of 8 billion people who are willing to do that. And we've really iterated on our software. I love when John said it just works. It it it it warms my heart whenever I read all these
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user testimonials saying, "I tried it and it just works." And like I love the fact that people love our software and now we want to bring it to a device that is much lighter weight, much higher quality, um a lot more professional
Speaker A
looking. It's a device that ultimately allows people to bring this to all their different contexts like a coffee shop, like the office and hopefully that million and a half becomes 15 million people or a 100red million people because we took our time with the
Speaker A
software. now the right form factor or the um packaging is correct like with chatbt not just an API but the packaging turned into chat and that packaging worked for everyone like with us the form factor used to be this thing now
Speaker A
the packaging is going to move more into a thin sleek type of form factor which is 70% lighter weight than these massive ones uh it would not surprise me if we start seeing this crazy inflection point for the first time in spatial computing
Speaker A
history it's exciting times yeah Apple jumping into something is is not something or to something to take lightly. And like Cliff said, uh rising tide lifts all ships. And just a side note, Apple just surpassed Nvidia as the
Speaker A
world's most valuable company. I don't know if you guys know that, but um they are still a major player in uh shaping the tech landscape. I know that uh OpenAI, we we talked about on the last episode uh they recently released their
Speaker A
micro. John, you have some comments on your your reaction for the micro. Open AI is like now entering the space of hardware with their micro with their puck thing at some point, right? I guess I just say like I think
Speaker A
Apple has created a bit of a hardware hesitancy is is I think I um I think Meta I think the combination of Oculus and Apple Vision Pro and Meta. I mean, I guess it's Apple and Zuck in my opinion
Speaker A
just go, man, I'm just nervous to buy someone's, you know, puck thing, you know, and I mean, I I'm probably going to buy it, but I'm more of an early adapt adapter, you know, and um I think the thing that we talked about this on
Speaker A
our episode when we were breaking down snaps um the spectacles and snap stock and everything like that, but I I think something that needs to be iterated is it is socially awkward to have outward- facing cameras to people.
Speaker A
Most people, like you said, feel very uncomfortable being on camera, let alone being recorded. So, if you think about walking into a restaurant and if someone if someone was walking around the restaurant doing this, we all feel kind
Speaker A
of weird and we all go, "That person is a weirdo." And so, I just think that there's I'm just curious to see how I think it's even something holding back the glasses. you just want to, you know, I even remember we we were at uh we were
Speaker A
in Austin and going to uh a comedy club and like my friend that had the meta glasses like it was kind of this like awkward like oh you're trying to get in with the it's just like it feels like
Speaker A
the meta glasses guy is just a weirdo in the group. I'm just I'm just gonna be honest like like the blinking light the blinking like [laughter] yes, you know I I just remember being I remember we w we got
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out of a movie and and I was my friend was like yeah what do you think about all that? And then like halfway through the combo, I we had walked out of the theater into the dark parking lot and I
Speaker A
see this blinking light and I go, "Were you just recording me?" Like [laughter] so I I just think the puck I'm just like I don't know, man. I just think I think we've just seen a lot of hardware flubs
Speaker A
recently. I also think most people don't have more money than than they did five years ago. I think people feel tight. I think people feel stuck. I I would say I think pe I don't know. I think $3,500 for for a device is not not an
Speaker A
entry point. I think most people are think I'll tell you as a parent what I'm thinking about right now in terms of hardware is going dude we need to get our kids off of these Amazon trash tablets and we need to get iPads because
Speaker A
they just work and Amazon tablets just don't iOS has these safety features that I can use there you know um so yeah I mean I will probably buy it but I will feel weird using it socially this is the new chatbt micro
Speaker A
It's just a thing with buttons in order to trigger your chat GPT on your laptop.
Speaker A
Yeah, I I will say um so I have I think OpenAI is on to something here. I you know, initially when I saw this, I was like, what is this? I I have no idea uh if I would ever use something like that,
Speaker A
but then um I have a Stream Deck Plus and I realized I could do some of these same automations myself. Um and what it what it does for me is it brings essentially the AI model into the physical world and allows me to interact
Speaker A
with it. Uh and so I think I do think that chat GBT or sorry OpenAI is on to something here. I mean I don't think this is like a mass adoption type device. Uh but when people start learning about automations um and how
Speaker A
you can get an AI to actually take action for you uh that is I think going to be a behavior that starts picking picking up.
Speaker A
Well uh to add to that I mean what OpenAI has learned and all of us have learned through this process is uh sorry I'll take a step back. Back in 2022 2023 when I first started using chatbt I was
Speaker A
like man I I don't Josh if you remember I used to say man I actually I want to I want to find what I want to find though like I I do want to go through the 10 blue links in order to find what I'm
Speaker A
looking for. Yeah. Um and that was actually a uh a function of the fact that chatt wasn't good enough back then. Back then it wouldn't give me all the right answers but now it's improved so much where it is
Speaker A
starting to give me all the right answers and I don't have to go through all the 10 blue links. the product has been so good and what OpenAI has figured out is if I can remove all the process
Speaker A
and just give you the result then and if I can make essentially make you m make you lazier in a sense or reduce the friction in other words to put it more diplomatically uh then you're going to start using that and and create that
Speaker A
habit and likewise with that micro device instead of you having to um you know find your tab where your chat GBT is and then go to the specific thread that you were last on and then be able to see oh is it is already done with the
Speaker A
last process that it was working on or Not. Instead, now you have this micro that has a light that blinks and says, "Oh, ready for you to input your next uh request and you click it, it immediately goes to that page, it goes to that exact
Speaker A
thread and knows and and you can just now use your voice button. So, you just hit one button, then another button, you're starting to talk to it. It's already starting to think again and start working on the next." It it it it
Speaker A
reduces the amount of steps you have to take to start to keep using their product. Um, I think likewise with um the Stream Deck that Josh is using, same thing. uh for myself, I mean I I I know
Speaker A
that that is something that would help reduce a little bit of friction. Sure. Um there are more versions of that that I believe that can even 10x the experience even further. Uh that some things that we're working on behind the
Speaker A
scenes and that's why that's why I'm not going to talk about No, I'm not leaking.
Speaker A
No, I'm not leaking. You can leak everything this week. No, no, no, no, not that. I didn't leak everything. Just little hints, little clues. Uh Josh was saying that uh you know, CEO by day, coder by night. Yeah,
Speaker A
my sleep has been terrible because every night I've been up just like working with uh ChatBC codeex and Gro 4.5 build uh which is SpaceX's product or or XAI's product that helps me build a lot of product way more quickly. And there's a
Speaker A
version of these things I've been kind of alluding to and talking to that's going to take even our virtual office to the next level. How do I 10x and I believe even 100x your individual output? And yeah, I' I've already
Speaker A
experienced I was telling Cliff and some of the guys on the team. This past weekend, I was starting to experience a little bit of the magic moment. I was like, "Oh my gosh, this is gonna be amazing." So, keep your eyes peeled for
Speaker A
towards the end of the year, we might reveal a little bit. Depends how good I feel about it. But uh yeah, I have a uh just as as as we wrap just thinking about this in terms of content,
Speaker A
I think something that Sam Alman I think Sam Alman is a supremely more effective modern marketer than Mark Zuckerberg.
Speaker A
Yeah. Which is ironic because Mark Zuckerberg is the guy who invented a lot of our current modern means of marketing. But I I think Sam understands that like no name notoriety um understanding personalities is such an important part of of of purchasing
Speaker A
these kind of new fangled technologies. And so even for him to partner with Johnny Ies, that's a name that even if you don't know, your dad or your uncle's going to tell you or if you Google it, you just go, "Wait a second, what?
Speaker A
That's dope." And um and also that Johnny Ies is going to make it look good and not in some like we paid Kylie Jenner to talk about our robot glasses.
Speaker A
No, it's like no like that. The thing I'll say about the Open AI device is it looks dope. It looks chic. It looks like Yeah, you know, if someone in LA said this is a designer piece, you'd believe
Speaker A
them. And then also with with uh Sam's acquisition of TBPN, he clearly knows how to move people into yeah these futuristic iterations. I think Elon has his own expression of this in that Elon is kind, you know, again purchase a
Speaker A
social media platform. He's very in people's face. I I feel like used to do NSNL and Big Bang Theory.
Speaker A
Yeah. And so I I would say that that is a major liability for Meta and possibly even Apple is I don't think that they have spokespeople. I don't think they have content creator.
Speaker A
Zuckerberg has in his defense, he's been doing a little bit more with UFC and some of those things. Yeah, I know. But it still feels like he's doing image preservation and product building at the same time.
Speaker A
That's the problem is the image preservation. That's the problem. Yeah. [laughter] Every time Mark Zuckerberg makes a public appearance, it looks like an ad for an Optimus robot. Like every time I see [laughter] Zuckerberg, I think it's someone like promoting some kind of
Speaker A
humanoid robot. And I love him. He is a robot. Yeah. And I mean, I loved the brand recently. I I've been all for it. I feel like he's been killing it.
Speaker A
Well, I will say I will just say at least he's being authentic. I do think he is. I I think that kind of cringe kind of like white boy with a chain is just who Zuck is. And so I'm kind of
Speaker A
like happy that he's just being himself, you know? But I would just say something to watch with Sam is I think part of how he's gonna move people to adoption faster is I think he's learned I think he has a bit more of a a tapped in
Speaker A
approach. You're not feeling this? [laughter] Yo, that is AI altered. He does not have that much aura, bro.
Speaker A
Yeah, [laughter] that's really close. I'm just saying I think Zuck took the Apple approach which is keynote. We are the experts. Listen to us. Sam takes more of an approach to say, "Hey man, we're we're collecting this community of
Speaker A
trusted personalities and faces, and we're kind of curating your trust to get you to spend money on stuff that kind of doesn't make sense yet." Yeah, I I agree. I think um and in fact, Paul Graham said that Sam Alman is the
Speaker A
closest to Steve Jobs that he's ever seen uh in in terms of like a tech CEO.
Speaker A
Um, I think Sam is a genius and he is really uh I think he's got a lot of things um under wraps that that want to make sure we don't brush over this. The reason why OpenAI like, by the way, Sam
Speaker A
is Oh, if you haven't seen this, oh my gosh, I need to show you guys this thing. Uh, if you haven't seen this, go to YouTube and type in um Mafia here.
Speaker A
Let me uh Sam Alman Mafia. They you watch him play the game Mafia with Palmer Lucky.
Speaker A
Is this one of the coolest things here? This is super fun to watch. If you haven't seen this, watch this. So, Brian Johnson, the never die guy, Palmer Lucky, Sam Alman, I it's actually a couple of guys who I
Speaker A
actually know fairly fair fairly well. It's really fun to see how Sam and Palmer Lucky and some of these guys, by the way, I played basketball with Brian Johnson. Uh Palmer Lucky, actually, he pre-ordered a bunch of visors as well.
Speaker A
Like, there's a lot of people in this crew that I really like I I I deeply respect. And then after watching them play this game, my respect has increased even more. There's a professional poker player, Game Theory.
Speaker A
Yeah. uh the the woman on the bottom left here, she's a professional poker player. She has ripped money from me, [laughter] sadly, and I shouldn't have been in that hand with her. There are people like in this video, again, go to
Speaker A
YouTube, type in Sam Molman Mafia. Uh this is something that uh it shows you their level of game theory is next level, which by the way, the reason I bring this up is this micro device right here is that's not what their long-term
Speaker A
device is. Clearly, this is just a device to get them to get their um hardware pipelines in place. Uh how do we get the right people in place for supply chain, the right people in place for uh you know, returns and and
Speaker A
refurbishment deliveries whatever um for shipping devices, customer support, all these things. This is almost like a Trojan horse, right? Sam Alman, he's not doing this because he believes, oh, we're going to sell a 100red million of these devices. He they specifically say
Speaker A
we have a limited production run and this is just to get this in the hands of people. And you know, look, if they end up selling millions more than they thought that they were going to, they'll probably, you know, they'll take the
Speaker A
revenue. Why not? Um, you know, this is a, I think, $230 device. It's obviously they're making a lot of profit on this device. It probably only cost them like 40 bucks to actually make. And if they're profiting 200 bucks per device,
Speaker A
why not sell more? But this is almost uh kind of um clearing the pathway for that kind of post smartphone device that they do want to work on.
Speaker A
And I think I think it will do some level of Yeah. Like what you said, word of mouth. Yeah.
Speaker A
The thing about an Apple Vision or an Oculus or even a Cybertruck, don't get mad Renji, is that it's so goddy and in some ways impractical that it's like a for You can pull it off, Renji. You pull
Speaker A
it off, but [laughter] most people can't. Most people can't. And the thing about this is, you know what this is going to be? You're going to be sitting at dinner with just normal bros and and you're going to see a guy just put it on
Speaker A
the table and it's going to feel normal, a bit more normal and natural. And I think it's going to start this conversation. And I think again I think this early device is shows that Sam is showing some level of respect for what
Speaker A
it's going to take to get people to move to move to move off of this. And I think and and trust them as a hardware provider. So I don't again luckily for them they have tons of money to
Speaker A
again a lot of repair. Yeah. They can they can lose they can lose a lot on this and still call it a success.
Speaker A
They're brilliant. Yeah. Yeah. I I just hope that uh whatever it is they're designing does not turn out like Johnny Ives Ferrari. [laughter] Oh, that was so bad.
Speaker A
Wait, I don't know about this. I got to look at Yeah, you do. You've seen it. Yeah.
Speaker A
Yeah, I'm about it right now. You you've [laughter] seen this. You've seen this. Hold up.
Speaker A
I mean, I remember the the Jaguar rebrand that that was blotch 2, but that that wasn't up to Johnny. This one I was like I was like, come on, man. So, this is the thing. this blue thing every like
Speaker A
everyone on the internet MKBHD everyone they were mocking this they're like what kind of car is this um sorry that red one I think is just people making fun of it like it's not actually what it looks like um
Speaker A
yeah essentially it's such a thick looking car because they couldn't figure out how to get just like Tesla they weren't able to get the batteries to be thinner higher energy energy density all of that the same power the way that
Speaker A
Tesla was able to so they have kind of a thicker looking car and Johnny I was like all right well I guess I'll make the best of what I can and uh that's this is what they end up
Speaker A
look like a Ferrari. Yeah, it's the blue ones. So, let me see. Blue. Yeah. Just doesn't it doesn't uh fit the I guess the iconic Ferrari.
Speaker A
Yeah. I mean, I'm not a car guy, so I mean, if that that offends, you know, the the the the standard of what a Ferrari is. I mean, I would say my car take is like I think the the new
Speaker A
Broncos are like weird looking cuz I'm like I feel like a Bronco is supposed to feel rustic and retro and cool and hopefully not remind you of a murderer on the run, but it [laughter] reminds you of simpler times and nostalgia, but
Speaker A
the modern Broncos just kind of look like they it's what I think about most electric cars. The Rivian just looks like a tryhard car. I'm just like, what is this? And in ways that I can't describe, I think most Teslas
Speaker A
just seem good. By the way, by the way, to to kind of connect this to us, by the way. Yeah.
Speaker A
Um, so so Tesla, people forget that they had the old school Tesla Roadster to begin with. When Tesla went public, they had only sold 1,400 1,400 of those Tesla Roadsters and then they went public.
Speaker A
Fast forward to today, they've sold over 10 million cars. But when he first went public, people are like, "How are you going public? You only sold 1400 products, like individual units." and he's like, "Well, are you going to fund
Speaker A
me? If not, I I need to go public in order to even be able to afford some." Obviously, building a car company is a next level of funding versus what we need to do with this type of device. But
Speaker A
this is our Tesla Roadster. This is just the beginning. This is I I don't want to sell millions of Visor ones, but when it comes to our Model S, our Model 3, oh, this is just the beginning. And uh I'm
Speaker A
super excited for where things are headed. Uh, I know we're over on time, so maybe Josh, you want to do a couple But real quick, Reggie did Reggie did mention, right, that he is co CEO by day, coder by night. As much as I want
Speaker A
Reggie to leak uh what he's building, at least tell them how many commits you have.
Speaker A
Oh, in in the first week, 23,000 commits is a lot. Yeah. Ju just a frame of reference, the average senior developer has about 1,500 commits on their codebase a year. Uh, is it that little per year? That's apparently. Yeah,
Speaker A
that's wild. Wow. I guess it's an average, right? Uh and so yeah, I mean, but then again, I was I was going about it a little bit more, I think, cleverly than most engineers. I was deploying multiple agents to like
Speaker A
work on different features all simultaneously and not conflict with each other. And then even if there were conflicts, I was having them resolve the conflicts with each other. So like I'm like deploying multi it's almost as if it was Renji and 15 AI engineers going
Speaker A
at this thing. So obviously for me, I'm being very efficient about the way that I'm doing it. So, it's not me coding 23,000 commits, but I will say it's tirelessly every night. I don't want to use the word addicting, but I'm very
Speaker A
hooked on building this product. And and I I think it's a product. It's it's it's software um that's going to hook into the immersed experience in a way that is going to just completely transform the way companies work in general. And that
Speaker A
and Cliff know Cliff's smirking because he knows exactly what we're talking about here, but it's a next level thing.
Speaker A
And I think it's actually it's actually what OpenAI and Anthropic and all these tech giants are actually trying to build, they just don't have this type of hardware right now. And so their product plus our product, our suite of products
Speaker A
together, this actually takes this to a whole other level in a way that we never thought was possible. And just the output that people and teams are able to have, it's going to be mind-blowing. So obviously I'm I'm super excited
Speaker A
and I know Cliff is working on this, too. So uh is there anything you can share with us?
Speaker A
No. Okay, [laughter] Cliff, maybe share your your your reactions to I'm just saying someone should invest money based off of Cliff's smile alone.
Speaker A
Like that level of [laughter] that's, as the kids would say, that is aura. Like Cliff's face, you should invest [laughter] in it.
Speaker A
How do you feel, Cliff? So you you guys know this about me. I I tend to think very long horizon. And I think the way that we get work done, I almost said 100 years ago, but let's just say even 10 years, 100 years from
Speaker A
now, let's just even say 10 years from now, the way we get work done 10 years from now is just going to feel radically radically different than than how we get work done today.
Speaker A
Yeah, I'll leave it at that. There it is. Mic drop. [laughter] It's like the way that we're going to work in 10 years, you might work next year that way because of us. In other words yeah that is all the time that we have for
Speaker A
today. We actually do this podcast every week. Tune in to our weekly podcast by going to immersed.com/pod.
Speaker A
Remember, the round is closing July 30th. [music] Uh so don't miss that opportunity. We really appreciate you guys joining us.
Speaker A
Remember, the future belongs to those who understand the trends before they become obvious. Till next time, everyone. Bye. Thanks, guys. [music] [music]
Topics:ImmersedAR glassesVisor headsetApple Vision Provirtual officeAI in SaaSOpenAI devicesVR productivityTechstarsspatial computing
