Youth Month | Reflecting on the future of SA’s young pe… — Transcript

All right, welcome back. Let's continue now as South Africa celebrates Youth Month. Young South Africans are disproportionately affected by the burden of youth unemployment. Youth unemployment is a complex crisis which finds its roots in a number of systemic roadblocks. It's not only that we have one of the highest youth unemployment rates in the world, reported by Stats SA in quarter one of 2024, sitting at 45.5% amongst people between the ages of 15 and 34 years of age. But at the sidelines though, there are also other conversations happening regarding the state of the nation's youth. How are they feeling about South Africa and the future? So, joining us for this discussion is the executive director of So We Vote, Utlile Ngqayi-Mngqibisa, as well as virtually going to be joined in just a moment by the project leader at Youth Capital, a campaign advocating for policy change to solve unemployment, Crystal Duncan-Williams. Of course, this is South Africa observes National Youth Day, dedicated to the young SA youth in the country. A very good morning to both of you. Let me start with you, Utlile. Thanks for joining us at this hour.

Thank you so much for having me. I'm excited to be here. So, we obviously saw Soweto Uprising Day yesterday. Today, the country is having a standard holiday, but we can't ignore what has, you know, what has been undergone over the past few years, particularly after the year democratic dispensation as we look at the realities on the ground for the youth at large. You were also very busy yesterday at Constitutional Hill marking and commemorating those events. I wonder if you could look at the 48th year that we're commemorating this event and what comes to mind given the realities on the ground.

There is increasing apathy, unemployment, and frustration amongst young people in South Africa. That is the unfortunate reality. You know, 48 years after the Soweto uprising, where we saw a lot of young leaders who are now leading the country, taking charge, speaking about the country and the South Africa that they wanted to live in, one of inherent prosperity, one where people, young people in particular, felt valued and where their future was brighter. 48 years onwards, I'm a little bit skeptical about what young people in this country actually see for their future because we are seeing levels of so much unemployment, poverty, and degradation in the country that there's a prevailing sense of we don't know what's going on anymore. We feel so disconnected with what's happening in the country, not just from a leadership standpoint, but from a place of what our place in South Africa means in the future and also in the present that I don't think a lot of young people viewed June 16th as a time of celebration.

No, absolutely. And given the issues that come to the fore for you, what do you think are some of those core issues that have anti-democratic dispensation? Poverty, unemployment, inequality are just, you know, to name a few. I think we have to start with unemployment. The number of young people who are unemployed in this country is shocking and that is because, I mean, lots of lives are being held up by this unemployment.

Mhm. The ability. The fact that there are young people in this country who went to school, played by the rules, never broke any laws, went to university, matriculated, got their degree and everything, yet they aren't employed or some of them who did pass in university but aren't graduates because NSFAS hasn't paid their fees. The fact that that's a reality in the country right now is breaking. It's breaking not just our society, it's breaking the state of what young people are able to do for South Africa. And so we have to start with unemployment. If we can address unemployment, we can begin to address the other issues because it's holding up so many lives that by the time government or private sector gets their act together and is able to actually address youth unemployment, we'll see an entire generation of people that would have been left behind, dubbed unemployable because they lack the experience or they lack the necessary time that they need practically on the job for them to be considered people that can contribute to the economy.

I'm thinking of Frantz Fanon's quote and I actually don't want to, you know, mispronounce it or misquote it. Rather, each generation must out of relative obscurity discover its mission, fulfill it or betray it. If we're looking at what the youth mission is this time round, what would you say is that fight as we speak?

Justice. There's a lot of inequality. There's a lot of inequity. There's a lot of injustice in South Africa going on right now. You know, you talk to a young person who maybe didn't vote in the election, but was seriously considering it. There are two things that come, that you immediately get struck by as you speak to them. And those are the two age-old questions. Was 1994 a revolution or was 1994 a reform? Now, a lot of young people are really asking themselves what should we have gone with because there's a sort of dis- There's a sort of disjunction in society right now about how 1994 was, what 1994 meant to the country, and what it achieved for us as young people, what it achieved for us as South Africans. Have we addressed the underlying issues that are causing so much disparity in our society that is continuing to keep families that have lived in Alexandra or Soweto for 70 years still there, that is keeping a family that has never known a university graduate still in that same position. How do we address these underlying injustices because if we can address that, I mean, we must think about it from a very practical standpoint.

Absolutely. Justice and addressing the historical inequities of South Africa are the only way that this country can go forward. Otherwise, we will continue to have what we are seeing in South Africa today, and that is a society that is angry, frustrated, and unable to lift itself up to take South Africa into a much brighter future, which a lot of us young people really want because we're not leaving the country. The majority of us is still here.

Well, home is the only home we know, so we can only build this home. So, I was actually going to be interesting to get your thoughts on what this new GNU also stands for and how effective you think it's going to be. Before we get there, let me welcome Crystal Duncan-Williams as well to the conversation. She is obviously project leader at Youth Capital. Crystal, good morning, and thank you for joining us as well on Morning Live at this hour.

Good morning. Good morning, everyone. I just had some opening remarks from Utlile, painting that picture 48 years later. Perhaps we could get your thoughts on, you know, what your reflections are regarding youth development, the state of South Africa for youth 48 years later.

I think that I would share, you know, many of the sentiments that I quoted at the end of the introduction. Young people, while on paper have access to free education, equal access, supposedly on paper, we know that this is not the case, right? We know that the quality of education that young people receive at a quintile one school is vastly different from a quintile five school. We're not even talking about private schooling yet. We know that when young people exit, you know, only one in two grade ones who start grade one make it through to finish matric. And then they sit into a post-school situation where if they're lucky enough to find a place to study at, NSFAS doesn't pay the money on time, and they're forced to sleep in libraries and go hungry, and eventually drop out because they, you know, NSFAS is not supporting them in the way that they need, and the culture shock of university is often really dramatic for many young people coming from more rural areas. They often have no

disconnected with what's happening in the country, not just from a leadership standpoint, but from a place of what our place in South Africa means in the future and also in the present that I don't think a lot of young people viewed

June 16th as a time of celebration. No, absolutely. And and given the issues that come to the fore for you, what what do you think are some of those core issues that he has anti-democratic dispensation? Poverty, unemployment, inequality are just, you know, to name a

few. I think we have to start with unemployment. The number of young people who are unemployed in this country is shocking and that is because, I mean, lots of lives are being held up by this unemployment.

Mhm. The ability The fact that there are young people in this country who went to school, played by the rules, never broke any laws, went to university, matriculated, got their degree and everything, yet they aren't employed or some of them who

did pass in university but aren't graduates cuz NSFAS hasn't paid their fees. The fact that that's a reality in the country right now is breaking. It's breaking not just our society, it's breaking the state of what young people

are able to do for South Africa. And so we have to start with unemployment. If we can address unemployment, we can begin to address the other issues because it's holding up so many lives that by the time government or private

sector gets their act together and is able to actually address youth unemployment, we'll see an entire generation of people that would have been left behind, dubbed unemployable because they lack the experience or they lack the necessary time that they need

practically on the job for them to be considered people that can contribute to the economy.

I'm thinking of Frantz Fanon's quote and I actually don't want to you know, mispronounce it or mis unquote it. Rather, each generation must out of relative obscurity discover its mission, fulfill it or betray it. If we're looking at what the youth mission is

this time round, what would you say is that fight as we speak? Justice. There's a lot of There's a lot of inequality. There's a lot of inequity.

There's a lot of injustice in South Africa going on right now. You know, you talk to a young person who maybe didn't vote in the election, but was seriously considering it. There are two things that come that you

immediately get struck by as you speak to them. And those are the two age-old questions. Was 1994 a revolution or was 1994 a reform? Now, a lot of young people are really asking themselves what should we have gone with because there's

a sort of dis- There's a sort of disjunction in society right now about how 1994 was, what 1994 meant to the country, and what it achieved for us as young people, what it achieved for us as South Africans. Have we addressed the

underlying issues that are causing so much disparity in our society that is continuing to keep families that have lived in Alexandra or Soweto for 70 years still there, that is keeping a family that has never known a university

graduate still in that same position. How do we address these underlying injustices because if we can address that, I mean, we must think about it from a very practical standpoint.

Absolutely. Justice and addressing the historical inequities of South Africa are the only way that this country can go forward.

Otherwise, we will continue to have what we are seeing in South Africa today, and that is a society that is angry, frustrated, and in unable to lift itself up to take South Africa into a much brighter future, which a lot of us young

people really want cuz we're not leaving the country. The majority of us is still here.

Well, home is the only home we know, so we can only build this home. So, I was actually going to be interesting to get your thoughts on what this new GNU also stands for and and how how effective you

think it's going to be. Before we get there, let me welcome Crystal Duncan-Williams as well to the conversation. She is obviously project leader at Youth Capital. Crystal, good morning, and thank you for joining us as well on Morning Live at this hour.

Good morning. Good morning, everyone. I just had some opening remarks from Utlile. Um painting that picture 48 years later. Perhaps we could get your thoughts on you know, what what's um your reflections are regarding youth development, the state of South Africa

for youth 48 years later. I I think that I would share, you know, many of of the sentiments that that I quoted at the end of the introduction.

Young people, while on paper have access to um free education, um equal access, um supposedly on paper, we know that this is not the case, right? Um we know that the quality of education that young people receive at a quintile one school

is vastly different from a quintile five school. We're not even talking about private schooling yet. We know that when young people exit, you know, only one in two grade ones who who starting grade one make it through to finish matric.

And then they sit into a a post school situation where if they're lucky enough to find a place to study at, NSFAS doesn't doesn't pay the money on time, and they're forced to sleep in libraries and and go hungry, and eventually drop

out um because they, you know, NSFAS is not supporting them in the way that they need, and the culture shock of university is is often really dramatic for many young people coming from more rural areas. They often have no career

guidance, and so end up studying uh things that are not going to allow them access into the labor market. And then again, for those who finish that qualification, the the disillusionment of coming out of of working really hard,

making all those sacrifices despite all those challenges to only sit unemployed. Because you've studied something that maybe the labor market doesn't value. Um you know, you don't have the workplace skills. Um and and and then to to be

stuck and be unemployed for years and years and years, rejection upon rejection upon rejection. This is the reality that young people face. And in and amongst all of that, we've got things like the climate crisis, which I think young people are feeling deeply.

We've got the corruption and the nepotism that young people are seeing within their communities at a very local level. Um in February and March, we traveled to six provinces and spoke to civil society researchers, young people um some private sector representatives

and and really that that level of corruption and nepotism at the the local level is something that weighs heavily on the minds of all South Africans. And so, you know, in a nutshell, I think young people are at a at a really

desperate place, in a really low place. And yet, they continue to be optimistic um and to try to show up um in their communities in the way that they can with the resources that they have.

Whether that be, you know, helping younger children to read or um you know, helping others in the trick to study for their exams.

Young people are doing things. We just might not value the things that we're doing. And unfortunately, we're a society to not see um the things that they are doing and rather brush them off as lazy or entitled, which is not true

for the majority of young South Africans. Crystal, you also highlight 10 main challenges that are faced that the youth are facing. Perhaps you could speak to that as well. Um what also needs to be done to shift the needle on that crisis?

Uh you know, our 10 our 10-point action plan at Youth Capital covers the areas of education. You know, I I mentioned the fact that many young people don't make it through the schooling system. We don't We don't You know, we don't see

young people as individuals. It's kind of a broad sweeping um statement. Young people move schools, they move provinces, they've got to repeat grades, you know, basic kind of administration that we're not we're not getting right because we don't check um learners at

the individual level very well. Um and then the kind of wrap-around support that that that young people need, you know, both psychosocial as well as academic. And and then we talk about, you know, I mentioned NSFAS. That's part

of the financial support that's so critical for young people. How can you expect young people to study if they if they don't have food on their tables? Um once young people leave places of of learning, they step into a place of

nothing, you know, they absorb the costs of looking for work. We spoke to 10,000 young people at the end of last year and young people are spending in the region of 1,400 rand a month just to look for

work. Many of them never finding that work um despite having to, you know, borrow money, rely on grants to to do that.

Um young people don't have the social networks to to allow them access to opportunities. So, they're really stuck in this place of nothingness in this transition phase. Um and then, you know, if we look at the the area of actually

finding a work experience, um we have public employment programs and things like the basic education employment initiative, you know, which is kind of a a light in in the darkness of um of public employment programs and in the

social employment fund as well um and the national youth service, we we've seen some money being put into the pockets of young people to provide services that the community um we need to now strengthen those partnerships um in these communities with local

businesses that bring these short-term work opportunities in, they they translate into a next step and not young people going back into that place of nothingness that I just mentioned.

Yeah, it's actually I want to pick up on small and medium businesses. Yeah? Yeah, if you please continue on that small and medium business. I just want to bring Wood Celia back in after that.

Well, so, you know, small and medium businesses don't have the support that they need to thrive. We um we often hear about the employment tax incentive, but from our research and others know that that's not really creating additional jobs in the labor

market and uh from Youth Capital's research, only two in 10 small businesses have access to that employment tax incentive. So, we're spending billions on something as we do with many youth development programs without really evaluating what is our return on our

investment. Um we need to ask these critical questions as we enter a new political term, I think.

Wood Celia, on the back of a crystal echo now, uh the issue of interest amongst the youth in what's happening in South Africa also coming to the fore.

You saw the youth we saw the youth playing a big role unseating the ANC not 40% holding them accountable given the realities on the ground. Talk to that interest that you're seeing from the youth that they that this time round.

Young people are invested in South Africa like I said earlier we're not leaving and we don't plan on leaving anytime soon. But that partly is because we see a future for this country that is different from what we're currently

living in today. You look at youth movements you look at the civil civil society space you look at activist mobilization on the ground. Those are led and are spearheaded by young people for their community for the country and

for the sake of our future. So that is an inherent interest in seeing this nation get better. You see political mobilizing on campuses. It was not the IEC that was going to person to person asking are you registered to vote? Will

you be voting? It was other young people trying to mobilize young youth and young people to participate in the election.

You know when I say youth I'm talking about people that are in that 18 to maybe 30 mark and then when I say young I'm talking 30 to maybe let me not say the last number there.

But we see young people in those spaces they're mobilizing and you know one thing that really needs to be underscored is that now that we have young people mobilizing on the ground where the time is at all we need young

people represented in seats of power at the executive table. You know When you think when you talk about this election the names such as Liam Jacobs when you talk about the youth when you talk about young person you think about

Fathia Hassan now at the National Assembly. These are young people that are representing youth interest but they are a minority in a parliament that is supposed to represent over 60 million South Africans at the moment the majority of whom are young people and

where you talk about the unemployed people in this country the majority of whom are young and so we need proper representation of young people there because you can't have a generation that albeit might have good intentions but just is not connected to the lived

experiences of young people. And so we need that on a national scale. And that's why you hear more and more young people saying, "I can't vote for people who aren't even remotely attached to my age. I can maybe vote for a 30-year-old.

I can maybe vote for someone in their late 20s, early 40s pushing it. But someone that is in their 50s and 60s has a different lived reality of South Africa. And frankly, will address a different type of constituent that they

can relate much better to." And it's interesting because obviously we have to compete globally. Um it affect our it affects our competitiveness as a nation given the labor force given that labor market that you know, obviously, you know, needs

more entrance and more opportunities. Crystal, on the back of what would say they echoed just in terms of representation, having enough youth at the negotiating table as well, what more needs to be done on that front and sure that

representation occurs effectively? I think we only need to reflect back on on SONA of this year where the president spoke about Tshepo and Thabo, and I know that uh Twitter or X um was hopping mad uh to put it politely at

this fictional character that the president spoke about, which is not the reality for many many South Africans.

And the fact, you know, that that this is the the picture that he chose to paint shows the depth of the disconnect um between the president and and other MPs and what it means to be a young person.

I absolutely agree that we need to get more young people um into seats of power. We need to have some kind of mechanism where we are guiding young people towards that that end point. But for those that are there, you know, that

we're not going to get rid of all the old people, so to speak. It's why Yeah, it's why Youth Capital has come up with a conversation card game um for for Youth Month and and beyond um called Tshepo and Themba on employment. And we

are going to be encouraging political parties and decision-makers to play that game with young people, whether it's their nieces, their nephews, um you know, revolution starts around the kitchen table. We need to be having these hard conversations. We need

those, you know, over the age of 40 to remember what it meant to be young, to remember what their hopes and dreams were and their aspirations were, um and to really have conversations with young people to realize that the world in 2024

is very different from the world that they knew as 20-year-olds themselves. And the solutions that they think will work inevitably won't because they are they are so far removed from from the realities of of the world today.

No, absolutely. So, here's my question to both of you. How can leaders make up for the lost time and ensure that they do deliver on those service delivery issues and and make up for the promises that they had been echoed perhaps 30

years now in our democratic dispensation. Let me start with Crystal and then I'm going to come back to you.

Sure, I think we need to look back at proper M&E. If we don't know where we've gone where we've gone wrong in the past, how can we learn from those mistakes and move forward? I think there's a lack of,

you know, at the very high level, a deep budgetary review. Budgets are just based on spend and kind of historically our budgets have been spent. We need a deep evaluation of of service delivery within specific municipalities so that, you

know, the new hands understand what the old hands have done and can either build on what is working or chuck out what is not working. If we don't know that, we're basically going in blind and we are very likely going to make the same

again. And so, I think we need to start there and own the fact that we've been really bad with transparency in terms of reporting down to to the the local level and we need to fix that as a point of

urgency. What's in it for you on the back of that? Also, what gives you hope?

What gives me hope is that there's more and more young people awakening to what's happening in the country. And you said that what can leaders do in response, you know, young people will tell you that they have a sense that

leaders have run out of vision, they've run out of direction, they've run out of a way to get South Africa out of this mess. And when that happens, they need to be run out of power. And that was a

huge message we're getting from young people in this election. I mean, at So We Vote, we literally have no money, but we're just a bunch of first years that are trying to mobilize more young people to get involved. And so, when we're

engaging with them, they're saying to us, the thing that gives them hope is that they're seeing organizations like Youth Capital, organizations like So We Vote. They're seeing individual young people waking up, working in their community, doing things that are making

this nation just a little bit better. Cuz millions of people waking up in South Africa, majority of them young, who are apathetic, who feel that nothing can change. They need someone to show up and make something good happen. And when

people like with Youth Capital, when we at So We Vote get up and we do things, when more young people get up and do things, it makes people feel that South Africa is a much brighter and much better future.

So, summarize, leaders need to get out of the way and let a few, well, a lot more young people enter the space and take South Africa to where our generation needs it to get. Secondly, people just need to show up and make

good things happen. So, we can we can't ignore the strides that have been taken, but obviously there are still more questions than answers at this point. And thank you to the both of you for joining us at this

hour and for weighing in, really speaking to the reality on the ground, and really echoing what your hopes are for the future as we navigate the next 30 years beyond our 30 years of democ- democracy already. Let's leave that

conversation there for now. Crystal Dunkley Williams, project leader at Youth Capital, and Utlile Hadebe, executive director at So We Vote, speaking about the challenges facing youth and young people in South Africa.