Speaker A
Why do you see financial corruption as a central issue facing Pakistan?
Imran Khan discusses how corruption by Pakistan's elite weakens institutions, devalues currency, and perpetuates poverty and inequality.
Key Takeaways
- Elite corruption is the root cause of poverty and institutional decay in Pakistan.
- Weak institutions enable unchecked corruption and undermine justice.
- Corruption leads to economic instability through currency devaluation and inflation.
- Normalization of corruption in society and media perpetuates the problem.
- Long-term political dynasties have facilitated systemic corruption and national decline.
Summary
- Corruption by the powerful elite is the main reason for poverty in Pakistan and other poor countries.
- The elite siphon off money meant for human development and infrastructure, damaging the country.
- Corruption pressures the currency by forcing elites to buy dollars to hide stolen money, causing inflation and poverty.
- The Sharif family stands out due to their long tenure in power and weakening of state institutions to facilitate corruption.
- Pakistan's decline began in the 1990s with the rise of Nawaz Sharif and Asif Zardari, who plundered the country.
- Corruption weakens institutions that are supposed to check and punish corrupt practices, making justice inaccessible.
- Corruption by ruling elites normalizes and makes corruption acceptable in society and media.
- Examples include the scandal involving Shahbaz Sharif’s sugar mill and unexplained large sums in a low-paid employee’s account.
- The acceptance of elite corruption is more damaging than the money stolen itself.
- Imran Khan compares Pakistan’s corruption tolerance unfavorably to the higher moral standards expected in countries like Britain.
Full Transcript — Download SRT & Markdown
Speaker B
Corruption is is not just an issue for Pakistan, it is an issue for all the poor countries.
Speaker B
In fact, I've come to this conclusion that countries are poor only because of corruption and corruption of the elite.
Speaker B
It's the corruption of the powerful that destroys a country, not the corruption of the weak.
Speaker B
Because they have capacity of making a lot of money and then taking it out of the country, so they damage a country in two ways.
Speaker B
One is that the money that should be spent on human beings, human development, infrastructure, and right now climate change, it's a huge challenge now for humanity.
Speaker B
That money is siphoned off, so that's number one damage to the country.
Speaker B
Secondly, is because they have to hide the money because the amounts are huge, so they have to take it out of the country.
Speaker B
And to take it out of the country, they have to buy dollars, so the second damage done to them is that it puts pressure on the currency.
Speaker B
So the currency devalues, when the currency devalues, there's inflation, and inflation causes poverty.
Speaker B
So in my opinion, countries are poor mainly because of the corruption of the elites, ruling elites.
Speaker A
Over 400 Pakistanis were named in the Panama Papers and more than 700 were named in the Pandora Papers.
Speaker A
In what way does the Sharif family stand out compared to other individuals mentioned in those leaks?
Speaker B
You see, the reason why Sharif family stands out is because he was three times the Prime Minister.
Speaker B
And he has basically been in power for 35 years, most of the time he's been in power either they've been in government in Punjab, which is 60% of Pakistan almost, or three times he's been power at the center.
Speaker B
Now, when the Prime Minister makes money, he has to make money by weakening the state institutions that are supposed to check corruption.
Speaker B
So, when the state institutions become weaker, then it's not just that the Prime Minister is making money, then at all levels money is being made.
Speaker B
And you know, our country during especially from the time that Nawaz Sharif came into power in Punjab in 1985, it was from 90s that Pakistan started going down.
Speaker B
Until 90s, Pakistan was ahead of all the countries in the subcontinent in terms of our per capita income, in terms of our human development.
Speaker B
We were ahead of all the subcontinent.
Speaker B
Once Nawaz Sharif came and then followed by Asif Zardari, the two of them, these two families plundered this country.
Speaker B
They did something like what East India Company did to India, East India Company basically took India, which was one of the richest regions in the world.
Speaker B
The wealth was stripped and taken away to to the to to Britain in in the 200 years.
Speaker B
This is exactly what the corrupt elites, ruling elites of the developing world is doing to them, stripping off the money and taking it out.
Speaker B
And this is exactly what Sharif and Zardari did to us.
Speaker B
When I as a Prime Minister, if I want to make money out of from my country, steal money and then send it abroad, I can only do it if I weaken the state institutions that would check my corruption.
Speaker B
So number one, the institutions get corrupt and they get weaker, and they cannot stand in front of the powerful.
Speaker B
So what you're seeing number one in Pakistan is that the the the the institutions that should check corruption, the the institution that should protect the people of Pakistan by giving justice.
Speaker B
They somehow have got either weak or they have got within the institutions have been penetrated by the powerful mafias.
Speaker B
So our ability to to to check them or to bring them to justice, you know, that that that ability is minimized.
Speaker B
Secondly, and I think even more devastatingly, when the rich or the ruling elite indulgence in corruption.
Speaker B
The worst thing that they do to a society is they make corruption acceptable, so the media also doesn't get appalled when they hear of corruption cases of the powerful.
Speaker B
Compare that to say Britain, I mean a simple thing like, you know, for in Pakistan it wouldn't even have made news about Boris Johnson attending a a drinks party, you know, during COVID.
Speaker B
I mean, it wouldn't even have been in the paper, it wouldn't people would have thought it's silly if it had come into the newspapers.
Speaker B
But look at the level of the moral standards expected from the elite, and here you have this instance of Nawaz Sharif's brother Shahbaz Sharif.
Speaker B
In their sugar mill, one small employee which would hardly be paid $50 I guess a month, even if that, in his account 4 billion rupees come in.
Speaker B
4 billion rupees, and you know, the guy refuses to answer, he said, I don't know, my son, ask my son, and son has absconded to London.
Speaker B
So he was the Chief Minister when this happened, and and and and so there's no shock in the country because somehow, you know, we have accepted the the the corruption of the powerful.
Speaker B
And this is actually it does, this is far more damaging than actually the money they take out.
Topics:Imran KhanPakistan corruptionelite corruptionNawaz SharifAsif ZardariPanama PapersPandora Papersinstitutional decaycurrency devaluationpoverty in Pakistan
