Exposed:How Carbon Credit Deals Are Forcing Kenyans Off… — Transcript

Exposing how carbon credit deals in Kenya force communities off land with unfair leases and lack of consent.

Key Takeaways

  • Carbon credit deals in Kenya often lack transparency and community consent, leading to exploitation.
  • Historical land injustices continue to affect indigenous communities, exacerbated by new lease agreements.
  • Local communities view these deals as a form of modern colonization threatening their autonomy and livelihoods.
  • There is a critical need for genuine public participation and fair compensation in land-related projects.
  • Awareness and advocacy are essential to protect communal lands from unfair commercial exploitation.

Summary

  • The video investigates carbon credit deals in Kenya, focusing on communal lands leased for 40 years at minimal compensation.
  • Local communities, particularly in Old Donno group ranch, express fear and rejection of these deals due to lack of understanding and consent.
  • Historical land injustices, such as the 99-year lease agreement with Madi Soda company, have left communities vulnerable and dispossessed.
  • New agreements are being pushed without proper consultation, sometimes involving community leaders taken abroad and influenced.
  • The carbon credit initiative is viewed by locals as a form of modern colonization and imposition on their traditional ways of life.
  • The community highlights the absence of genuine public participation and the negative impact on their livelihoods.
  • Soil for the Future Africa Limited is identified as the company promoting these carbon credit deals.
  • The video features interviews with local leaders who emphasize the need to protect communal land rights and reject exploitative projects.
  • The Maasai community recounts historical displacement and ongoing struggles to retain control over their ancestral lands.
  • The video calls for global awareness and respect for indigenous voices in environmental and land-related projects.

Full Transcript — Download SRT & Markdown

00:10
Speaker A
[Laughter] Credit 250 shillings per year. Yes, per acre. Conversations that were going on in the village were that we are going to get money for free. Madi is one of the historical injustices that have been done to our community, and we are now fearing to sign
00:41
Speaker A
any other agreement. For the first time in this community since 1973, there has never been an actual war. So right now, for future Africa, to this community, it is not just a carbon credit proponent, rather a warlord because for
00:57
Speaker A
the first time, we've been to an actual war against our own people. Yes.
01:21
Speaker A
Why do they come and tell me the way I should live? That shows me that it is a methodology of modern colonization. This is a community that has had ways of solving its problems.
01:35
Speaker A
Even atmospheric problems, we have had our own ways of solving them. So we did not really need this investor to come in and impose their punitive policies in the name of environmental conservation. I would like to
01:49
Speaker A
tell STFA, the company, please stay away from our land. What is your problem? Stay away from it. People have rejected it. People don't want that carbon thing.
02:01
Speaker A
If perhaps in the future we might be interested. Maybe we might give you a two-year contract. You paying us 1 million shillings for 100 acres every [Music] year. Heat. Heat. N.
02:24
Speaker A
[Music] [Music] Hallelujah. Hallelujah. Hallelujah. Yes. [Music] Hey guys, welcome to today's episode of LNS. My name is Lin GooGi, and as always, we get to meet for another conversation where we get to do the three things we are doing this season. We are learning
03:30
Speaker A
and learning and relearning. And I know obviously you can see the setup today is a bit different, and you will see us doing more of these conversations because we have got to engage people and we have got to hear what they are
03:44
Speaker A
saying. Most of the time when people come out and say a public participation was done and these people were in agreement, half of the time no public participation was conducted and no one agreed, and that is the basis of our
03:59
Speaker A
conversation today. I am in Old Donno right here in a group ranch. This is actually communal land that is owned by these incredible people you are seeing here. And when I got an email from one of the gentlemen by the name
04:14
Speaker A
Ians, who you will get to listen to right now, he said, "Lyn, someone is trying to force us into signing a carbon credit deal, and we are not okay with it." This is Soil for the Future Africa Limited.
04:28
Speaker A
They said, you know what, we are not going to sign this. Our people don't understand what carbon credit is, and we don't feel okay giving our land for a 40-year lease to definitely an initiative we do not get to understand. So today,
04:44
Speaker A
listening and getting to understand what are the new ways colonial masters are using to colonize our people. What is carbon credit, and why is it that they have a tendency of targeting specific people in our community? Without further ado,
05:01
Speaker A
allow me to welcome our people today so that we can be able to participate in this conversation, and as always, leave me your thoughts in the comment section because that is very, very important to me. So good morning. Good morning to
05:14
Speaker A
you. How are you? I'm very fine. You are well. I'm well. How are you feeling? I'm feeling okay. All right. So maybe you could start by introducing yourself and tell us why we are here. Okay. My name is Iano.
05:27
Speaker A
I'm a five-member of this group branch of the Min, and to give, we are here today to use this platform to address the world that this is a group branch and there are people who are
05:44
Speaker A
targeting this communal land maybe to make our people more vulnerable. They want to bring projects that, instead of making us sustainable to our livelihoods, are even making us more vulnerable. Mhm. So we are
06:01
Speaker A
here to address the world, even to pass the message to the owners of those projects who are coming to, and to give a nutshell of this place. Yes. The N, it's a group that is 68,000 hectares.
06:16
Speaker A
Mhm. In hectares, and this phase, this phase two, it has phase one that's 69, 60, 169,000 acres. 169,000 acres. Yes.
06:29
Speaker A
Mhm. So this has phase one and phase two. So we are now in phase two. This is phase two. Phase one is on the other side.
06:39
Speaker A
So that's why the reason why we are here today is we want to address the world that even those who are diaspora who want to bring projects, we want to address them to stop bringing things that will affect our people instead of
06:55
Speaker A
helping them. Mhm. So that's the reason we are here. All right. Do you think the world is finally ready to listen to you people? Do you think they are ready to listen to the people who belong in these
07:07
Speaker A
specific places when they say enough is enough? We don't want this. Yes, that's why we are using this platform to address them because previously we have suffered from land injustice out of our illiteracy. Most of our old men are
07:23
Speaker A
illiterate, and we have lost land before, and again we have another project for common that is coming to our group branch, and they want to sign a treaty of 40 years, which we have already experienced before, and that's why we
07:38
Speaker A
want to address that it's enough now. We don't want to go through all that pain that we have gone through. All right, yes, and I know you guys are ready to talk about Madi. You've said you don't understand what happened in Madi.
07:52
Speaker A
There's also a GSU training center around that you say you don't understand. But allow me to pass this mic to the gentleman right there so that he can be able to walk us through the history of this place and also what are
08:06
Speaker A
some of the things the community does not agree with. Okay. My name is Samuel Kudate, a member of group branch in Madi division, and just, I just want to correct my friend: group branch has got 68,566 hectares all over. It has got two
08:28
Speaker A
phases, Moeni phase one and phase two, and by land injustice, I can just come to our mindset that we as Maasai community suffered a lot in land injustice. Just remember that we are pushed all the way from highlands, Auru,
08:49
Speaker A
Nairobi up to here. So there were a lot of land injustices before. In 1911, maybe 1900 to 1911, there was a mining company called Madi in just in our local area. The company entered into an agreement
09:12
Speaker A
with Libong just around, you can historically around 1911. I remember it's 1911 because in 2011 they were celebrating 100 years. They went into an agreement of 99 years. The community doesn't know the terms of the agreement. The acreage acquired by the company, we don't
09:40
Speaker A
know, although there are landmarks, but the owners of the land, they don't know. So we are sitting on land owned by somebody else on papers in an agreement.
09:57
Speaker A
We heard that after 99 years there was another agreement signed to extend the lease of Madi without the notice of members. Otherwise, this is a time of modern colonization because whatever we have seen there, it's not good for us, but it
10:22
Speaker A
has been exercised. Let me ask you: you are saying agreement. Mhm. Uh-huh. Agreement. Mhm.
11:29
Speaker A
99. So what essentially happened is when the agreement was nearing its life cycle because it was a 99-year lease agreement, what the company did, because it used to be held, it used to be owned by Branamond Holdings
12:02
Speaker A
Magadi's company. So it was sold to Tata Chemicals of India, and now what they did, they started going around and engaging some members of the community to sign a new agreement of 40 years. So essentially, there were those
12:18
Speaker A
discussions. Eventually, they came to an agreement of 40 years. When you say some members of the community, legally can they transact such a deal? Are they allowed to have a conversation and go on with such a deal?
12:36
Speaker A
To talk about that topic is that once the 99 years are over, yes. Madi Soda brought some community leaders; they toured them to India. Uh-huh. And they facilitated them, and they brought Madi Magadi, and they housed them, they gave their facilities, and so they signed that agreement without the consultation of the community. Yes. Yeah. So s
12:58
Speaker A
they they housed them they they give their facilities and so they signed that agreement without the consultation of the community. Yes. Yeah. So so you you even you we are not informed they are just collect the counselors the chiefs
13:16
Speaker A
they were taken to India. Did you question the people who went to India? Have you ever had mushaku? Well, we demonstrated and I was one of in two 204 we were arrested because we are we were demonstrating that idea. So we were
13:38
Speaker A
arrested. We go to Kra local. We finalized the case. We won the case but nothing did the their contract just continue. Okay. Yeah. Do you consider Madi part of your land?
13:54
Speaker A
No, it's not ours. No. Before it was taken, was it part of your land? Yes, it was. How so? Walk us through. Before 1972 when the group branches were demarated. Mhm. Magad was just the whole community including Champolio or
14:16
Speaker A
they are one community. Then they come to subdivide the group branches and they bring Madi as one of the individual ranches in our commun in our community.
14:30
Speaker A
Mhm. Yeah. So they they grabbed more than 224 acres of land. Mhm. use including 24,000 acres uh including uh concession they're saying concession areas uh Madi is one of the historical injustice has done to our community and we are now fearing to
14:59
Speaker A
sign any other agreement because we have already seen that and we are also seeing GSU here just they grabbed the land more than 3,75 acres of land. Mhm. Just to compensate with 6 million only 6 million shillings. Six. Yeah. That's what the
15:23
Speaker A
community was given. Was given. Mhm. And no project has they have done. Mhm. So they just they said 6 million we the community were not part didn't participate. there's only the management committee and some senior officers in in
15:40
Speaker A
the government by that time that's around 1994 and we are not consulted maybe to emphasize on that what MAV said about the JCU so the group leaders took a loan from the government and they defaulted so when they defaulted Mhm.
16:01
Speaker A
Now the government wants their money and therefore they requested can you have a collateral now the land as their collateral so that's why they took all that land but we don't know how much was so how much they sold an acre we don't
16:19
Speaker A
know who who who who was doing the pricing of that acidge land so that's why the the 3,700 acres at 6 million Kenya shieldings now The you said the group ranch leaders took a loan. They took a loan for what? From the
16:37
Speaker A
government. The group ranch by that time were loaned by AFC. Yes. To do restocking to buy fattening steers for the purpose of sample water project.
16:49
Speaker A
That was the the objective. But they failed. They just misappropriated the funds and they went away. So the FC wanted to to sell alonuk group by good faith the the late president Daniel came to madi that's 1992 and we told them there are some jus
17:16
Speaker A
who are around here we pray that the the government may compensate so that group the whole group range of 170,000 acres not to be taken FC and then he accepted and they came in without doing any evaluation and they just come and bring
17:39
Speaker A
that the loan was 3.5 million by that time 1994. So the the rest 2.5 were also been misapproated by the group committee. Okay. So according to you, how does the community benefit from Madi or from the GSU? How do you benefit from
18:03
Speaker A
all this? Do you benefit? Um, not not really. We may get some some water. We have some water points that mad sometimes drink of which it's not even reliable.
18:21
Speaker A
It's not a it's no any storage tanks that they are going to put. So you don't know when to bring how how the quantity of water they are bringing.
18:30
Speaker A
So they are doing more harm than good. So the only uh the only way you benefit is from water. Sure. Alone. I want to ask a few questions. Maybe you can give me the mic.
18:49
Speaker A
Carbon credit. [Music] [Laughter] New purple. [Laughter] Yeah, [Laughter] [Laughter] mean new dollar bill as you can see the meeting of now.
20:55
Speaker A
Yes. 250 shillings per year. Yes. Per acre. Hector. perk. So rental per month that is 12,000 a year.
21:56
Speaker A
Now compare 250 shillings and that by that year. So Yes. Mom credit. [Laughter] [Music] Okay. Yeah.
23:41
Speaker A
groupunch. So, process land ownership. So, I sh Yeah. From 2004. Mhm. True. School. We are group.
26:34
Speaker A
Yesister members. Yes. Yeah. Hey. carbon. Now if we are looking for statistics then you get to understand majority of these community members don't even understand what carbon is.
27:45
Speaker A
But another issue is being raised here. A register for us to be able to understand how a communal land runs and the legality of things. Allow us to go back to this gentleman so that he can be able to walk us through what is this
28:01
Speaker A
register and how come some of the members of this community are missing from this register. H Group title register map register members shareholders members 125 members after 5 years new members members.
29:02
Speaker A
So 1994 last group of members 19 197 1994 last group last group of members 13th December 13th December Yesister last group of members 1 Mhm.
29:33
Speaker A
136 total total totally registered 1136 and registered together with the registered we are more than 6,000 okay so more than 4,000 are not registered more than 4,000 not registered okay there was an AGM convince Mhm. chaired by land education
29:57
Speaker A
office we are not going to they are not going to recruit new registered members. So up to that time back at 2012 we are going to subdivide this parcel of land. By that time some illegalities in subdivision there was lack of
30:28
Speaker A
transparency in subdivision by the group ranch in office. Then after members realizing that there were a lot of illegalities, they took an action of removing them from office.
30:45
Speaker A
They were removed by in office in 19 in 2016. Mhm. Currently we have got a new group branch office which is in office for now for 9 years. Mhm. But actually those are the people who mess the whole community
31:07
Speaker A
by this by pretending that they subdividing the land. They went to an extent of increasing new members including their wives, multiple allocation of personel to their wives relatives children and their friends, companies and people who have so much influence in the offices of the
31:39
Speaker A
government. Mhm. So the number rise from 1136 to almost 2,000. Mhm. When we realized that, we went back to the beneficiary list whereby it is called the aerial list where when you appear in the area list then you have a
32:04
Speaker A
plot or a plot number in this ranch or you are located a parcel of land in this ranch. But after going through that aerial list we noted a lot of illegalities as I told you that multiple allocation of people in
32:23
Speaker A
office to their wives. You get somebody allocated 10 parcel of land to his wife.
32:31
Speaker A
a numeral numeral number of parcel to his children and that was not in a proper manner because there was no AGM undertaken by the members to allow that figure to extend to that. So by now as the lady says that his children were
32:55
Speaker A
omitted in that register, we are saying that we are hoping that they are not omitted uh in a manner that it is not an error.
33:08
Speaker A
It is just that somebody is removed from that register replaced by the beneficiary of the officer. Yes. So we are saying that and again When the number rose to that extent, you know the land is not elastic. When the number rose to that
33:29
Speaker A
extent, obvious the acorage will be less. So we are also doubting of the acorage of the ranch of the parcel of the beneficiaries because of the arrest number. Mhm. So what is now in the air we are not going to have that office.
33:49
Speaker A
They are just illegally because of their illegalities and we have forward a case to court and the proceedings are there.
33:58
Speaker A
It is only that the ruling will be told very soon. Okay. Thank you so much. Now I want us to move into the carbon uh credit uh segment so that we can be able to understand how these soils for the future Africa limited
34:21
Speaker A
approach. What I have here is their confidential draft. This is the draft that so maybe allow me to call this gentleman so that he can be able to break down for us. What are we looking at here and why is the community against
34:41
Speaker A
this whole carbon credit saga sir karibusana iats if you can move here please. Uh my name is Moses Maia I'm a resident of group branch. I'm also a bonafide member. uh of course he has mentioned how registration was done and
34:59
Speaker A
when we were young of course you know how the Messiah society is organized it's organized in terms of age groups and age sets so when he did mention that in 1994 that was when they had the last registration
35:14
Speaker A
uh they my father registered me of course that time you were paying a fee and then the fee was being collected by somebody then they had to submit the names of of of of the children that you know the the man the head of the family
35:29
Speaker A
was providing and even back then I I have some uncles that did not actually get registered even though they were parents at that time and essentially what what happened is that because it was not organized in such a way that everybody who's a member
35:48
Speaker A
of this community will be registered some people did not submit the registration fees of some of the members. So you'd find uh some people from the headset were not actually registered. So it was not really that everybody who was born and raised in
36:07
Speaker A
uh was was registered. So but uh lucky lucky enough my my dad submitted my name and they paid the registration fee and I was registered. Okay. Maybe before we move into the carbon credits closing in on the registration. There are more than
36:21
Speaker A
4,000 people here who have not been registered. What's their fate? What is likely to happen? Do they have a voice?
36:29
Speaker A
Do they belong or where can they call home? That is essentially the problem that we have right now. So essentially we've had some people of course the present leadership we've had some people from the present leadership calling them
36:44
Speaker A
squatters and calling them you know those are non-members. Yet these are members that were born here. They can go back in genealogy and show you how that their parents were here in the 1950s, in the 1940s. And yet because they missed
37:00
Speaker A
that bit of registration, now they're calling them landless. So that is essentially the problem that the present regime is not trying to solve.
37:30
Speaker A
members. Mhm. 1984 1984. What do you know about Madi and what do you know about the GSU that is around? What are your parents telling you? What happened according to you?
38:20
Speaker A
Well, there is of course uh the version that my parents know. Yes. Essentially a lot of our people are illiterate. They cannot read. They cannot write. My father cannot read. He cannot write.
38:34
Speaker A
And what he remembers was he himself remembers of course when he was a Moran because essentially you have our way of life where you are born and then you start having consciousness that you know you are a man and then you go through
38:49
Speaker A
the rights of passage you become a junior elder even before junior elder like my dad used to tell me he was a moran so he used to pass by the company but remember these are agreements that was that were signed in the 1920s
39:04
Speaker A
1920s uh it was a different age set that that you know were parents and were leaders at that time. Yes. They they actually do not understand the nitty-gritties of having an agreement that gives away part of your resources
39:21
Speaker A
because remember that Kenya was colonized by the British. Yes. But the British of course were dividing these resources amongst themselves. like you have the British East Africa company.
39:32
Speaker A
So, and a lot of those entities is what formed into the companies that you see today. Like I just did tell you that this used to be Branamond Holdings UK.
39:43
Speaker A
Then eventually they sold the company to Tata Chemicals and so most of us have found this agreements in existence. The process of how the agreement was arrived at we do not understand. Okay. what we the version we have is what our parents
40:01
Speaker A
tell us. Mhm. So essentially a lot of these agreements um our parents got into them without really understanding like he just explained the the GSU agreement and most of it if you look at these agreements they always originate
40:19
Speaker A
from a point of fear like we know how the British forcibly moved the Masai when they had that agreement with Alanana and of course at that time historically Uh some people are saying you know the Masai were having interclan
40:34
Speaker A
wars so they were really at a very big disadvantage and the British of course you know their policy of divide and conquer funding one side to fight the other side therefore weakening weakening uh the African tribes that were in
40:49
Speaker A
existence and then they come in with a pretense of providing a solution saying that you know we we can back you against the other side if you sign this agreement then that is how our people are moving of course from a huge part of
41:03
Speaker A
the Kenyan highlands and they came all the way to of course southern Kenya and part of northern Tanzania. So essentially it's almost always like there is a fear factor you know there is something that is threatening our people
41:18
Speaker A
or they create something that will will will push our people into signing some of these agreements in in the case of the GSU camp you've heard it was a loan so you see but who went to get the loan
41:32
Speaker A
in the first place were the people consulted because they are many of them are here many of them are not consulted in in many of these issues. They are no baras to let the people know, hey, we we
41:43
Speaker A
want to do ABCD. Hold on right there. Mhm. Okay. So essentially you find you know if you don't do this this will happen. So essentially you find then our parents of course if you now call them in Abaraza and you tell
42:36
Speaker A
them there is a loan of 6 million shillings that we owe AFC who is AFC agricultural agricultural yes just a normal AFC we know that gives loan to farmers. So and um you have a few group who are learned
42:54
Speaker A
some who understand you know some of these things that happen but majority of our people do not really understand.
43:00
Speaker A
Mhm. So of course it's always a small group that goes to approach some of these institutions and remember they are the ones in possession of the title deed of the group branch. So they're the ones mandated by law. Remember there was a
43:15
Speaker A
group ranch act. It was mandating the committee to do business on behalf of of of the community. So it is these people then that you know took a loan. Then of course it became impossible to repay the loan of course and you can hear all
43:30
Speaker A
kinds of things that they did with the money that was taken but then they got into some kind of a debt trap. So they could not repay the debt. So what do they do? Now of course uh a solution was
43:44
Speaker A
uh a solution was brought that uh there always used to be uh the general service people that used to train around this area.
43:55
Speaker A
So then it was agreed that perhaps hive of a part of the land so that then it can be used their monies from the sale of that land can be used to pay the loan that was owed to uh AFC. Okay. Back to
44:10
Speaker A
Madi their lease expired but now there is a couple of more years that they can go on. You were very knowledgeable then when the lease ended. Did you participate in saying we don't want to extend any of this list? Did any of the
44:28
Speaker A
people here participate in saying uh I think I was in high school. So I was in high school at that time and of course yes we did hear about that and the way that u Tata chemicals remember that it was Branamond. So
44:47
Speaker A
that's why I'm not saying so much about Tata Chemicals because remember it was Branamond Holdings and Bran Holdings was I think it it was a UK based company.
44:56
Speaker A
They were the ones that had the 99 year lease. Actually I am I'm not certain whether it was 999. You remember when the Kenyan government came in and said there's no such thing as 999 year. So then it was changed to 99 year lease
45:09
Speaker A
from the time it was signed. And uh so then those conversations begin. Remember these are four group branches. We have noi group branch. We have shle group branch. We have matan group branch and we have group branch. These four group
45:26
Speaker A
branches are the ones that surround the company today mad. So these four group branches the way our society is organized is when the group branch act came into effect now we elected chairman. So you'd find a chairman of
45:43
Speaker A
all those four group branches. But traditionally we had chiefs and the Masai people respect so much their chiefs. So how the company operates which is a good structure is that then you involved the leadership the group branch leadership together with the
46:00
Speaker A
chiefs in managing the issues of the society. So that is essentially how how how it runs. So every time there is an issue or if there is say a lease that is going to be signed then you have to
46:14
Speaker A
bring all these people together communicate with not the people the leaders the leadership that is what he was saying the leaders you'll bring the leaders together and you'd communicate with them the details of this agreement maybe perhaps even like what he said you know talk to
46:35
Speaker A
them about the agreement check them to India, let them see all these kind of things. Yes, of course you know that all of that has to lead to the signing of of of the lease agreement. So I remember
46:46
Speaker A
there were NOS's at that time. I remember but of course I was too young and then and um not influential enough maybe to try and change the trajectory and they were trying I think one of it was impedo. They were trying to bring the
47:03
Speaker A
community together to first of all understand the details of the lease and then maybe advise them so that then the community can decide whether they want to get into another agreement or not or not. And remember that at the expiry of
47:16
Speaker A
the lease that is the only chance you have to negotiate some certain concessions with with the company. But unfortunately um what came out of it was another lease agreement with no tangible benefits to the community. Go on sir.
47:31
Speaker A
Just to add on that uh the renewal of the mad le was not just an easy thing to the community as spoken by James. There are a lot of protests from the youth wanted to know what is the agreement between the magic
47:52
Speaker A
chemical tata chemical and the community but that one turned into veil and that's why they were jailed. because they went on to dig out to find the written document between Matti Tata chemicals and the community. So otherwise it has
48:10
Speaker A
gone like that and that was only our chance and we did not manage simply because the elite people of the division are not united by that time and also there were very few who can just mobilize others the community and others
48:29
Speaker A
to know more about the agreement and that has gone like that. Maybe the next chance is just after those 40 years and I know by that time so many people are educated, they're excited and they will not be intimidated for the next time. I
48:47
Speaker A
love that and uh just for GSU. Yes. GSU company uh GSU the land for GSU we can say that that is land justice has been done. Mhm.
49:02
Speaker A
Simply because the total acreage of that land compared to the sale of that land, you just see that there is a total injustice and delight robbery. How much is the total? 3,00 3,700 acres. 3,700 acres. It was sold
49:27
Speaker A
for how much? 66 6 million. 3,700 acres was sold for 6 million. Yeah. Approximately 1,500 per acre. Per acre.
49:37
Speaker A
1,500. This is the year 1994. 1994. If we were to go back, how much would would an acre cost in a good in a good good price?
49:52
Speaker A
94. 150k. 150k. Just for simple ma just simple just for simple mathematics before before even going to calculate how was that time there is a legal procedure of going to evaluate that land soil the valuation of that soil just tell you the amount of money
50:14
Speaker A
you are supposed to sell that land so it was not done so this 6 million we just they just gave us as a grant so which is okay but technically speaking if you had land. How much would consultants Yeah.
50:46
Speaker A
This 3,700 acres is equivalent to 220 million. 220 million against 6 million against 6 million. Go on sir. Okay. By that time as it was told by it was lamented by Moses that they said that the government does
51:10
Speaker A
not buy land. So they just pay grant grants. Okay. So and because people are illiterate they don't know where to go.
51:21
Speaker A
They they just say it is over and over. It went like that. Although we heard recently that some officials of group branch went to petition the government. We don't know the case where it reached. We don't know when we'll be
51:43
Speaker A
had when will be terminated. what we have heard that there is a petition between the community of and the GSU camp. Okay. The point I'm trying to make is our people are not learned. So they do not really understand the value of
52:02
Speaker A
land. Even right now we are still having the same problems because you know some people can really um mis represent because they want to buy a piece of land. So they can tell them you know the land in this area is not really valuable
52:16
Speaker A
and that is how essentially it's almost like giving away the land for yeah it's for free. Let's go into this document.
52:25
Speaker A
This is the carbon rights transfer agreement. This is their confidential draft document. Now this would be between the individual and the soil for the future Africa limited. This is a confidential draft. It is before we go further according to you who is soils
52:42
Speaker A
for the future Africa limited and what does the community know about this certain uh company or organization?
52:51
Speaker A
So soils for the future Africa uh is a company that is involved in setting up carbon projects in so far I've heard of their projects only in pastoral areas.
53:03
Speaker A
So essentially we we understand right now how that there's a lot of buzz in in terms of uh climate change mitigation and of course you know how these things cascaded right from from the COP agreements all the way to them agreeing
53:23
Speaker A
to have a carbon market essentially what we will call carbon market. Yes. So that companies that are setting up factories and and and they have and and of course you know when I say factories essentially in a layman's language it
53:37
Speaker A
means there's a lot of pollution that is coming out of out of their factories out of their industries and stuff like that.
53:44
Speaker A
So in order maybe for them to pay for whatever they are doing then they created a carbon market where people groups that are conserving the environment and that are removing certain agreed weight of carbon then they could trade with those
54:05
Speaker A
companies so that then the companies can continue whatever they are doing and eventually end up with whatever they call net zero. Good. Yeah, you are able to define that perfectly. But let's take a look at some of the definition of
54:19
Speaker A
carbon that we gathered from the community members. [Laughter] All right, there you go. But you you are able to at least define what it is when you get to understand that majority of the community members here don't even know what carbon carbon
54:53
Speaker A
credits or carbon markets are. Is that a worry for you? Yes, essentially it is a worry. Um like I did say my parents are really illiterate so they don't really understand what this is. And uh the conversations that were going on in the
55:10
Speaker A
village is that we are going to get money for free. That's that's essentially what they were told because do you know what carbon is? I don't know what do you even know what carbon in the sense of do you even know what you're
55:21
Speaker A
breathing? You know my my people cannot tell you what they are breathing whether it is oxygen them they know they were born they are breathing God gave them breath that's it. Yes. So they cannot be able to really break down and say carbon
55:34
Speaker A
you know there's climate change as a result of pollution and therefore I have trees which do carbon sequestration therefore you know I am helping those people that are polluting the environment. So they cannot define for you what carbon is essentially what what
55:52
Speaker A
the way the the way they were sold that narrative is did you have that money before? No. So what is your problem?
55:58
Speaker A
Just sign the document. We will be giving you money. Have you ever seen cabbon? No, I've never seen cabbon, but we will pay you money. Did they have an interpreter? Did they have someone from the community understanding the concept
56:11
Speaker A
and interpreting to these gentlemen and those women what they are after? So essentially uh what they did of course they had people they had people that uh they employed and these people were then supposed to go into the
56:28
Speaker A
community and of course the key thing here is you are supposed to go through the agreement together with the community members so that the community is able to understand what really carbon removal is and you know Of course, it is
56:47
Speaker A
beneficial for the environment, but what are the implications of you signing the agreement? Yes. And essentially, I think this is where the company failed, if you ask me, because they employed the people. Yes.
57:02
Speaker A
Uh but did you allow the community to get their own lawyer legal representation so that somebody else is interpreting for them the details of the agreement so that if they totally agree with the details of the agreement then
57:18
Speaker A
they can sign the agreement fully knowing what are the implications of of that agreement because essentially I don't mind free money but it has a cost. Nobody there's no free lunch. I think they say there's no free lunch. So if they say that Yeah.
57:36
Speaker A
So if if if really you're going to give me money, then there's a cost. But what is the cost? Because essentially that is the message we started communicate asking the people. There's no free lunch. So if there's money involved,
57:48
Speaker A
what is the cost to you? I think it's somebody who who said if you can't find prey in the table, you are the prey. You are the one who's being discussed and and and and being hived off. Yes. So
57:58
Speaker A
essentially they failed that part where then the community will be able to get an outside eye not from the company to go through the agreement, interpret the agreement, focus on some of the contentious clauses that perhaps will prevent somebody to get into a carbon
58:18
Speaker A
credits agreement. Do you think this was by design? Do you think this was intentional?
58:24
Speaker A
Now this is my opinion. Yes. Yes, I think it was intentional. Yes. Why? Okay.
58:35
Speaker A
Um, if for instance you don't understand the price of your resource and say the price of your resource is 20,000 shillings and I come to you and I tell you, you know what, there's even nothing you are doing with
58:50
Speaker A
this thing I just found in your homestead. I'll give you 2,000 B for it.
58:56
Speaker A
Okay. But here is the catch. It has certain conditions that is going to disrupt your way of life. If it has certain then I will try to hide those conditions which I know will prevent you from signing the
59:15
Speaker A
agreement. The Messiah have a proverb that they say Okay, if you translate it, it means do not show the W the bow. Essentially, it means if you're going to kill the Watog, don't show it the gun because it will
59:39
Speaker A
run away. Yes. So, essentially, it looks like it was a managed process to to result in our people signing the agreement without necessarily explaining You know they need you know in every agreement there's a huge part that is
59:56
Speaker A
good yes but there's a part which it is very very important for you to understand the implications of that part and remember this is English and these people are not learned me myself having gone to school with a
60:11
Speaker A
master's degree I sometimes need a lawyer to explain to me in actual sense what does that mean so what about them do they stand a chance they don't stand a That's essentially the problem. So I think it was a process that was managed
60:26
Speaker A
to to end up in a certain result. Sir, do you want to add something? Yes, I want just want to add something on that.
60:33
Speaker A
Moses spoke what was the big deal with the company? Actually, we held a public participation three times inclusive in every subloation. But question were can you just tell can you just take a group of people to a certain place where carbon credit has
60:59
Speaker A
been operating before for 10 years just for factf finding mission just to get information direct from the person on the ground but actually they decided no we are going to do that after signing of the agreement Remember that in
61:20
Speaker A
2010 Kenya got a constitution. That draft went through hands of people of Kenya. It was written by a group of lawyers.
61:38
Speaker A
It went through the hands of people of Kenya in English and people are given time to go through the government went to an extent of employing people to interpret what is the meaning of that article. We know that well they know that finally there
62:02
Speaker A
will be a referendum to vote for that document. So it was good for the government just to facilitate that process so that if the referendum be held everybody will put an vote where he deserve because he knows what is in the
62:23
Speaker A
document. Actually these people were rushing to sign this document and we don't know the content of the document.
62:31
Speaker A
For example, if you go to that document, that's the first writing that's that is transfer of right. Even that worried us a lot because I myself how can I transfer my right to carbon credit company to that self the future
62:48
Speaker A
company how can I transfer my right that means that I will just be living in that land just like somebody I don't know to say that stranger a stranger somebody somebody to decide for me what I will do
63:02
Speaker A
to my land my land yes I have several years in my life I've got 52 I have not seen any problem with the land which I have to which I'm living with. I am still managing it's helping me. I am is also helping that land. I am
63:19
Speaker A
not over stocking or I'm not mistrating of that land. So why do they come and tell me the way I should live? That is total. That shows me that it is anology of coloniz modern colonization because for example we mas apostles. We had a lot of
63:42
Speaker A
kettles, ships and goats. What if we are told that we are going to Greece in one part of land for for some month where we know that when we go to set aside that land we are going just to Greece for 2
63:56
Speaker A
weeks then the rest of the year month you'll just be there that means that you you are being told indirect sell your property to be few so that the literal parcel of land yes they should not finish by that time of which it is not
64:13
Speaker A
possible possible more sense. So, so maybe Lynn just to hammer that point maybe open that section on free prior and informed consent that is uh 4 something I think because remember that um this is a draft yes because we've also seen some
64:32
Speaker A
inconsistencies the draft that is given during the trainings and the actual document to be signed now this is the tricky bit because remember that um there are other Masai communities. We have some in um in Amboselli. We have uh of course
64:52
Speaker A
you know that in Amboselli what you have essentially is group branches. Yes. And this group branches they are also uh led by um they are led by group branch chairman. So it is actually the committee that goes to that goes to sign
65:08
Speaker A
these agreements on behalf of the of the group. So, and you find that whatever document they signed and this draft are different. So, I'm wondering why is it that it doesn't look like the agreement that was signed by
65:24
Speaker A
those those communities because essentially that is the agreement that we will eventually refer to end up to.
65:32
Speaker A
So, it's almost like a game here. You have two sets of agreements. You have an agreement that is used for training but the actual agreement that will be signed is something different.
65:44
Speaker A
Good. As you find us that point, let's talk to this gentleman. He has something to add. I'm really happy to see young people in this. So maybe tell us your name and contribute your point. All right. So thank you Lynn. Um my name is Gideon
66:08
Speaker A
Canori. I'm part and parcel of this group that has been leading this community to fight against impunity and to fight against anything that is not of goodwill to this community. So um the reason as to why I said I needed to add
66:24
Speaker A
something on what he's been saying, I actually want to I actually intend to add a lot. Sorry for that. Go on. Um reason being to this community there is there was someone who told you carbon credit according to his understanding is
66:40
Speaker A
is a devil and and that one has has not been caused by what he has understood about it. It has been as a result of what he has seen about it. For the first time in this community since 1973 there
66:54
Speaker A
has never been an actual war. So right now so of future Africa to this community is not just a carbon credit uh uh proponent rather a warlord because for the first time we've we've been to an actual war against our own people.
67:11
Speaker A
Yes. The reason as why we are seated here today, not being in the in in in the uh agreement or rather handicapped by the the the carbon credit uh um uh rather I I would I normally call them
67:27
Speaker A
punitive policies. Yes. So as as the reason as why we are not there today is because of blood that has been shed. We really regret that but that was the only way not the best way but the only
67:38
Speaker A
option. So seated here today, we have been to an actual war against our own people and that one has been resulted to by the forceful agreement that was intended to be signed on the 30th of April 2025. So first of all this this
67:57
Speaker A
thing the carbon credit thing for the so soils for future Africa was first introduced to us in 2023. After then we listened. We had given them an ear. Actually this community has been in uh many troubles because of how much it listens to
68:14
Speaker A
people. It loves visitors. It hears what is it's told by visitors and that's why you we've been conned from time to time because the pure intentions we have are not what we get in return. So um in 2023
68:29
Speaker A
we listened to them. They told us that time they were even a little bit um they told us a little bit more than what they told us when they came back in 2025.
68:39
Speaker A
That time we heard about grazing patterns. They told us that our place will be divided into 21 grazing blocks.
68:46
Speaker A
They told us that uh there will be uh a gauge for grass that is the size of your palm. They told us that uh there will be and in fact in that agreement there is a rotational grazing uh uh pattern. That
68:58
Speaker A
is to mean they will alter our grazing autonomy. That means that there will be a vast change in in in terms of our social economic way of life. That one alone scared us. And so they uh to sooth
69:11
Speaker A
this community to really make us see as if it's a good deal, they employed two of our people on a permanent contract and five of them on a short-term contract. I think it was for 5 months.
69:23
Speaker A
So later on uh we fought against them. We tried that time. We we really had fought for what it had taken that time and uh grace uh graciously enough God wanted us a win and we decided to scare away the
69:39
Speaker A
investor. So he went and sat down. He went uh to con he went ahead to convince three more group branches out of four in Madi Ward. That's all Kerry group branch, Alatan group branch and Choli group branch. And right now as we speak
69:54
Speaker A
Ali group has started a devolution against the investor. Sho is as well speaking under waters that he wants to fight the investor. I have not heard anything about but I'm eventual that one day there will be a riot against it. So
70:08
Speaker A
that means while they convinced the other three group branches they felt like that was not enough because we are the largest group branch in this world.
70:17
Speaker A
So they wanted more space. They came back in 2023. had a meeting with uh the people that are followers of the current committee, people that are supporting the current committee because it appeared like when you're fighting when you're not when
70:34
Speaker A
you're fighting the investor, you're not only fighting him as a carbon credit proponent, you're also fighting the committee group committee who are apparently now the the the marketing uh uh task force for the carbon credit investor. So while their supporters
70:51
Speaker A
attended that meeting actually we only had few people that are against the project Moses the Moses Misia being one of them. So there was no u freedom of expression. There was no freedom of speech. Your what you say against the
71:05
Speaker A
investor could not be taken into account. The only agreement in that meeting was that we had to set a cabon uh signing deal day. So we heard about that and we said we must do something about it. So a group of young people who
71:20
Speaker A
had a meeting, we made a vow that under no circumstance will we sit and and have a look uh as things transpire. Allow me.
71:27
Speaker A
We'll pick. A group of young people made a vow and said under no circumstance.
71:34
Speaker A
Why? What's your why? What's your why? Especially as young people. Why was this no important to you and for you? Yes.
71:43
Speaker A
Because to us this is not just a piece of land. This is who again this is the definition of who we are. It's also um historically our forefathers had lost many of their agement. So our people had lost lives trying to guard this so that
72:02
Speaker A
we find it when we are born. So we were born and we were given this as an inheritance.
72:08
Speaker A
No matter how many stories there would be that some of us as some of us are non-members we know that this is home and this is inheritance to us. So what really pushed us to actually fighting the carbon credit proponent that the
72:19
Speaker A
soils for future Africa for our case was the fact that we need to safeguard what our forefathers had safeguard uh for us for our future generations that will come after us. Um so uh having answered your question I'll proceed to tell you
72:33
Speaker A
that uh we had a meeting we made a vow and we uh joined forces with a group that has stood for the longest time trying to uh oppose uh impunity and deals that are not of goodwill in this
72:45
Speaker A
community. So after the meeting we had a collective a major meeting uh with the two groups. From that day things changed and so we were and so we planned we actually as a young people uh came up with emails that uh this is called group
73:03
Speaker A
branch allites. It's not my email. It's not his or someone else's. It is a an email that has uh portrays all of us as the allies of this community. We wrote several emails to the sorts of future Africa. We wrote emails to them. uh we
73:20
Speaker A
would even sit in a group of 50, compose one message and send it to the country director telling them that this is dangerous. We are going to plan a lot of uh riots against your company. We're going to be on social media walls uh
73:31
Speaker A
preaching ill about your company. Uh because that is actually what it is according to uh our standard of what an ill thing is. So after that they did not give an ear to that. They proceeded with signing uh with uh strengthening
73:49
Speaker A
relationship between them and the group branch committee. After that after that time we also planned a parallel uh riot against the set date which was the 30th.
74:02
Speaker A
For the first time since 2015 I again managed to see the stamp of group. That stamp will not be used in a hospital bill for for a member. that one will not be used in a mortuary bill for a
74:16
Speaker A
deceased one. But that day it was used because of the carbon credit signing day on the 30th of April 2025. So on that day we woke up knowing that we are going to write not going to fight. We know we
74:29
Speaker A
are going to riot and we will be listened to. So we went to the field. They actually had put that signing on an open field. And what they would tell us is in they would say right that means we are going to
74:52
Speaker A
sign the carbon credit deal so that you you do whatever that is in your capacity whatever that you're able to do. So we all we were able to do is only rioting.
75:02
Speaker A
So in the morning we went the other group uh was doing its arrangements to sign the agreement and we were doing our arrangements to riot against it. So in that very morning we tried to to go to approach the other group to ask them
75:14
Speaker A
where the meeting was actually taking place. They were very rude because they had planned. One day one of the leaders in this place who is a member of that group told us told their their counterparts that you guys need to be
75:26
Speaker A
ready for anything. You guys need to have your your your knives sharpened. You need to make heavier sticks. You you I mean you just come armed. We took that advice as well because in Masai there's a very there's a very popular proverb that
75:44
Speaker A
goes by. So while that means you when when a father has two when when a father has two wives and one of them he loves more than the other and so the kids as well he would loves the kids of one wife more
75:59
Speaker A
than the kids kids of the other whenever he's going to give advice to the to the favorite even that who is not favorite might be giving a near and he would even heed it more than the other one would
76:09
Speaker A
right you get what I said all right so um so we took that we heeded that advice because we wanted also to um be able to protect protect ourselves and and and and and be able to fight back if that
76:21
Speaker A
was uh the extreme. And um we gotten we had gotten to this to this space and trust me you trust me you by 8:00 in the morning 11 of our people were in hospital and because God was protecting this group none of us was
76:38
Speaker A
even given a painkiller because we had protected one another. We we and the reason as to why we had actually resulted into an actual file is because we went to ask them where the meeting was and they told us can you guys are
76:51
Speaker A
stupid. It was the first one but they were speaking in one of the the the counterparts of the committee. Actually the members of the committee ran away.
77:00
Speaker A
So their their supporters came to face us and u one of the we did not start the fight.
77:07
Speaker A
They did. In fact, the person they the person they they they uh kicked the first one was the oldest in this in this group and it is this Muse. All right.
77:17
Speaker A
Yes. And so they hit him so hard and then we definitely had to protect our people and so we resulted to a fight sad enough. 11 of them um had had incurred serious serious injuries. Um regrets for that. That's not a good thing to happen
77:32
Speaker A
in our community. But we thank God for what uh result he had given us that at the end of the day the carbon credit was not signed. But that was not the only time we fought. After we fought at 8:00
77:44
Speaker A
a.m. we were able to at least have mercy on them because they had ran away in the morning. So we did not do a follow-up on them. The only thing we wanted to do at the end of the day was making sure that
77:53
Speaker A
no agreement was would be signed. So unless you signed the agreement, you've you've not crossed our lens. So um in the afternoon they had a luri which was picking their members from all over. So they had thought that they have
78:07
Speaker A
collected enough now they can face us. They they have good numbers. So we were ready. In fact we stood up to riot and and actually hold leaves and and singing that we don't want carbon. We don't want cabon. While they were doing that while
78:20
Speaker A
we were doing that they started throwing stones to us. And as as definitely to defend ourselves, we decided to actually go to where they were to see whether they would still do that. We were in a war again about 20 30 minutes. It was so
78:37
Speaker A
intensive that they had to run after they ran. We did not follow them again.
78:42
Speaker A
But we had made sure we had chased them some short distances that they might not come back at the end of the day. So yeah, it resulted to that fight. People were injured. It disconnected the historical relationship between fathers
78:55
Speaker A
and sons in right now for my case my father is not my father in in what uh values we have as a community I have fathers who are younger than my father and that is for continunity of respect
79:08
Speaker A
and everything so right now most of them are in that camp and because we fought with them there's a very bad relationship between me and them we will need a sit down and we will need to compensate for beating for actually
79:21
Speaker A
having to be in war with them. So you see what this investor had put us into.
79:24
Speaker A
He had even destroyed the relationship that were in this community before he came. Yes. And the reason as to why we did not want this agreement was simply because we knew it is going to destroy our um autonomy. It is going to alter
79:37
Speaker A
the way of life. It is going to alter the grazing patterns. And in this community the only in fact we are in an area that you cannot grow mazize in an area you cannot grow wheat. The only thing you can do is keep large numbers
79:49
Speaker A
of livestock because it's it's it's an open area but it's it's a semiarid area.
79:54
Speaker A
So you understand when I tell you it is not u if you cannot grow maze and wheat and and stuff. So all along we have lived to love livestock keeping because it has worked for us in such an area and
80:09
Speaker A
having to be in agreement with a new person means there would be change in terms of what you keep. How many numbers of livestock would you keep? All right.
80:16
Speaker A
They take control. Yes, they take control. And this community, you can see we we are in we we we got a good forest cover. We have trees because we have had a historical way of of making sure that
80:28
Speaker A
uh our so our carbon sequestration in the soil is good. Our trees are good and and that the green cover is all over.
80:35
Speaker A
There's there is values in this community that even prohibits everyone from cutting down a tree. Yes. So this is a community that has had ways of solving its problem. Even uh uh atmospheric problems we have had our own
80:48
Speaker A
ways of solving them. So we did not really need this investor to come in and impose their punitive policies in the name of of of environmental conservation. Have they withdrawn their agenda? Have you spoken to these people and have they said okay we are out?
81:04
Speaker A
Right now they don't reply our emails. We told them you need to communicate publicly. We actually told them they need to apologize for having to uh gone to the extremes of having to put us in a in in warfare. We told them that we need
81:17
Speaker A
a communication that you guys are not coming back. They are silent. There's even um I would say a misdiagnosis that they had already signed the deal on that day secretively. But it doesn't happen for for someone who knows what's happening
81:30
Speaker A
in Kenya today and in the outside world. It's not possible for someone to sign an agreement in secret because you would need in your archives you would need evidence for generations that will come after us today who have seen you doing
81:42
Speaker A
that. So um we have not seen them communicate that they're not coming back. They have not given us a statement of withdrawal. They have not given us an apology. So we still have bad blood with them. We we are really bitter for them.
81:54
Speaker A
We are sending a strong message to them that they have put us to where no other investor not even our good neighbor Tata chemicals Madi Limited have ever put us to. We have had demonstrations in Madi and they have responded peacefully but
82:07
Speaker A
for their case they are a warlord and yeah it's very important to see you and such an elder existing together in the same bara. How does this make you feel that you are being listened to that even the older generation are paying
82:25
Speaker A
attention to some of the things that young people are trying to communicate them on. How does that make you feel?
82:31
Speaker A
Thank you Lyn. Uh what you would understand about this community, the first very fragment that I'll tell you about it is that this is not a rigid community. It's actually a statement for ages. This has not been a rigid society.
82:45
Speaker A
It's a community that listens keenly. So when when it had its own sons going to school, acquiring education and coming back, it is a very strong message to them that we are now a stronger community. Good. All right. So they in
83:01
Speaker A
fact the only disclaimer you would hear in this meeting if it was a if it was a normal day, they would only tell us you um sons of this soil that are educated, please take it as a slow pace. Make sure
83:12
Speaker A
we know what's happening. All right. That's what they would tell you. But they would you would not hear them saying but the other party that's actually too bad. Our dads and old men in the other party actually says ill
83:26
Speaker A
about education. They say that that's what they would say that these guys who have gone to school are stupid. They are even worse. In fact they say you would hear that they even worse than us who have not gone to school.
83:42
Speaker A
Yes. And you again wonder because that daddy who says that has four or five guys in university and secondary schools. So you would wonder why someone is taking a kid to school yet he feels like it. So it's it means they they are
83:54
Speaker A
seeing that education is changing form in this community. It's actually making good impact. It's only that they don't want to to to accept that carbon thing is is is more of of harm than good to us. just to on carbon credit. Yes. We
84:08
Speaker A
have our neighbors who are also massive from Tanzania and they signed this thing like 5 years ago or even 10 years ago.
84:15
Speaker A
Mhm. And some of the things that they're experiencing now, we are being told that this carbon is measured in tons. So every year they will come and measure it and they will tell you these are the tons and and this is what we will pay
84:28
Speaker A
for it. So now they're being told that carbon this year is very low. So you'll have to move from this place. Mhm. and look for someone else for 3 years. Yes.
84:39
Speaker A
To settle as you wait for carbon level to to gain or to raise. So imagine moving from your home for three good years just to please the investor or to maybe to to please the investor to do their business. So you
84:55
Speaker A
see now the implication that will bring. Yes. We also fear that such agreements will come to our community whereby we'll be told to move from this place because carbon level is low and uh you have otherwise because you sign so you'll have to move. We'll
85:11
Speaker A
have to move. So we we are really we really fear about those ugly massage the implication that will bring to our people. That's your fear. Yes. Thank you.
85:47
Speaker A
[Music] Let them not disturb 40 years. 40 and above years. [Music] 40 years. Shamba. So, uh, Moses, a lot has been said. I think we shifted from you wanting to hammer a point. Maybe as we try to understand some of the things
86:45
Speaker A
that don't make sense to you on that document, could you maybe brief us on that point you wanted to hammer and then wind this up for us? Huh? This is essentially uh what we were saying that because of not doing proper
87:01
Speaker A
communication with our community, you find that most of the agreements become disadvantageous to our community. And you know, in all honesty, if I want to do business with a community, I've already done the economics background and I know I can
87:17
Speaker A
make a profit. What gets into people to get to really become greedy and give a community such a a disadvantage, you know, so that when they even come down to discuss the benefit of something that might be beneficial to the community, it becomes
87:32
Speaker A
disadvantageous. Why would I sign a 40-year agreement when I can sign a 5year agreement so that if I'm not satisfied with it, then I can always come out of the agreement. So those are some of the things that you've heard
87:44
Speaker A
maybe perhaps for purposes of your viewers so that they also understand we are very grateful that the mining act was passed because um so far Tata chemicals has become you know at least it has started adhering to the mining
88:01
Speaker A
act which um the mining act recommends that 1% of of the revenue goes back to the local community and we are grateful for that but remember that uh it's It's been a long fight. It had to come to the
88:14
Speaker A
mining act for our people to begin to actually feel the benefit of you know the the resource that is right smack in the middle of of of my people. So we are grateful that now Tata Chemicals has taken a step to honor that mining act
88:30
Speaker A
which 1% so 1% will start going into the community. We have a meeting this Friday to actually discuss the project that the community uh will propose for the fund for the for the amount of money that will be given by the company back to the
88:45
Speaker A
community. So that of course that has been a process. So we are grateful and we hope that as we continue forward then there will be further and further negotiations so that the resources that are available in our land can benefit
89:00
Speaker A
our people. Just the same way Masimara is benefiting the puro community in Narok. So uh before we we before I left off there was a point that I was making and that point has something to do with free prior and informed consent.
89:18
Speaker A
free. Let the people themselves be able to get into this agreement so that they know what they're getting into, you know, so that if I'm doing business with the devil, I know this is the devil. I'm getting into
89:32
Speaker A
business with the devil. Yes. What is my protection against the devil? Mhm. But if it comes in such a way because I was trying to explain and I did tell you already I'm realizing that some details in the agreement that
89:46
Speaker A
is given for training is different from the agreement that will be signed and I'm marking that so that then you are aware of the things that I'm about to say. For instance one I was in the meeting that you know it was passed that
90:01
Speaker A
we are going to now bring that carbon agreement into effect. Remember this thing was rejected 2 years ago. Yes. The community rejected it. When the community rejected it, you know, it stayed, you know, they let the tensions uh come for for the next two years. And
90:18
Speaker A
then now they brought it back again. And here is how you tie it to the illegal land subdivision that is ongoing in in in in our division. One is that there was a huge part of land that was
90:30
Speaker A
supposed to be sold for a certain price to facilitate the subdivision of the land. Okay. So there was that factor.
90:38
Speaker A
When they tried to sell that piece of land, it was not possible. Of course, the reasons that they gave was that the market price the the price the market was offering was not sufficient. So here's the catch. So we went to this
90:51
Speaker A
meeting to be informed about land subdivision. But in this meeting, it ended up becoming a meeting with the director of soils for the future explaining to the community why we need to get into carbon. So, and this then they would
91:10
Speaker A
term it as public participation. I I I wonder. So, so uh so we went into the meeting, we discussed, we raised of course the points that we wanted to raise and then somebody asked because this looks like pre-planned meetings.
91:25
Speaker A
Somebody said ah now that we are not able to sell our piece of land for the price that we agreed what is your solution then said my solution is let's bring back the carbon project so the gentleman stands up and he's speaking in
91:40
Speaker A
this meeting and the first thing he says these people who went to school are causing a conflict between the community and soils for the future. This is the I was there.
91:54
Speaker A
I listened to him and I I wondered what that is what he said. He said he they are causing the conflict and he's telling them in my language he's telling them you know they they went to towns and they became prosperous. They don't
92:06
Speaker A
want you to prosper. Now I wonder is that free prior and informed consent because I'll read what the document here says in in its warranty. This is what the document says. It says each of the parties hereby warrants to and in favor
92:21
Speaker A
of the others that it has legal capacity and has taken all necessary corporate action required to empower and authorize it to to enter into this agreement. Now let's look at the constit the the the people that constitute that committee.
92:38
Speaker A
How many of them have gone to school? two to three people plus standard date.
92:51
Speaker A
Do they have the capacity to understand this document for them to enter into an agreement with STFU on behalf of the community? I don't think they have I don't think they really understand what this document is. So here is the guy
93:06
Speaker A
standing telling the community that you know you should sign the agreement because this agreement is going to be beneficial to you and he's not explaining the nitty-gritties of the agreement. He's not telling the community what is your cost. We'll give you money but what is
93:22
Speaker A
the cost of that? What do you have to do for you to to to to be able to earn?
93:29
Speaker A
Yes. So I think free prior informed consent was not really done. So that one let the community get its own lawyer.
93:39
Speaker A
Let the lawyer go over the agreement and this agreement should not vary on the day of the signing. I'll give you another interesting details. I was in that meeting. They said okay fine maybe perhaps many of you don't uh need that
93:53
Speaker A
carbon agreement. You are not in agreement with whatever we are trying to do. So what we shall do, everybody that is in favor of discussing the carbon project, let him sign and then we shall call a meeting of the people that agree
94:09
Speaker A
with carbon and then we can discuss our own carbon discussions. You you you hear the catch.
94:18
Speaker A
So people signed. I was there. Now on the day which was 30th I think what that young man was trying to explain how that you know when they came up and skirmishes happened and of course the young people being
94:34
Speaker A
uh full of energy and in complete position to the carbon project. Of course whatever happened happened but here's the thing. So the agreement the the the whatever the document that was signed which I took a picture of that
94:49
Speaker A
document that document does not say these are the people that have agreed to have discussions on carbon. No it does not say that the document has the logo of the company. The document has uh it even has no explanation and then it has
95:08
Speaker A
name ID number signature. Tell me what you can't attach on top of that document as an annex. You understand? You see how the game is played? So they say these are the people that will go into the discussion. But I think a few weeks
95:23
Speaker A
later they're now saying we are launching the project. But where did you get the signatures to permit you to now launch the project? You hear that? So all along they said the people that are in agreement, let them sign. But when we
95:38
Speaker A
came for that meeting, it was now we have the numbers that have permitted the couple. There was not another discussion for people to understand and to learn and to sign new documents that will now permit soils for the future to bring in their carbon
95:56
Speaker A
project. And mind you, let me just read another part of this confidential draft. And I'm I'm actually worried that we might discuss this confidential draft and then they'll say that is not our document because I realize that some of
96:09
Speaker A
the things that are put here are different from the things that they had said were going to be signed. For instance, remember that they said that it is all the people that have agreed to the project that will be
96:23
Speaker A
called for a meeting to discuss that and then now offer their consent to the project. This is what he says to in in in an anx certain section they call conditions president. This is what he say. The entry into force of this
96:37
Speaker A
agreement is conditional upon the community. One, all the individual land owners in the project area have been issued with land title deeds for their land within the project area and providing certified copies of those title deeds.
97:02
Speaker A
Nobody has a title. So how is it that they are saying all individual land owners have been issued with land title deals? We are not a group branch anymore. Remember that because the people agreed to subdivide their land.
97:16
Speaker A
So they moved. They took a step to land subdivision. Then we've had a lot of you know illegalities until the present committee is there. So now if the present committee really was following you know uh the law that was
97:31
Speaker A
guiding the group branches dissolution of group branches then they should have given everybody here title deed. Then those people who have the title deed can then decide whether they want to get into an agreement or not or not. You
97:47
Speaker A
seems sorry. So uh if they don't do that sorry I apologize it's okay it's okay if they are not doing what the community asked them to do what business do they have to bring us to cabbble they don't have no business and the agreement
98:07
Speaker A
that STFU provided they should also follow the agreement the agreement says if it's individual let them have title deeds then come and do business with us now I'll give you uh what SDFU Of course, you know, I'm getting this
98:22
Speaker A
from some of my friends I interact with because we Masai community is Masai community whether in Tanzania or in Kenya and these cabbon projects are almost like I think the old man was saying why is it that they always come
98:34
Speaker A
to Masai communities and for instance their document here says uh let me just read it on carbon rights transfer it says that SFA shall allow portion and allocate by way of a grant to the community 70% of the net revenue
98:56
Speaker A
generated from the sale of the carbon credits to third parties in exchange for the community's effective implementation of approved rotational grazing management plants and associated monitoring information as more particularly described in the benefit sharing agreement 70%.
99:15
Speaker A
I ask my people they don't even understand what cabon is. Do they understand how much revenue our rights will make wherever it will be? Because now one of my friends did tell me because then they have private land. So what they did as
99:31
Speaker A
individual owners of the land they came together they formed a conservancy. So now the conservancy is supposed to get into an agreement on their behalf. But they said no, we want to get into an agreement because of the requirement for
99:47
Speaker A
certified copy of the title deed because it will restrict anything else that you about to do on the land. Remember that you are getting into an agreement that will restrict your usage of the land. And and maybe perhaps later on I'll I'll read
100:02
Speaker A
some some some clauses. So if that is the case, what they did they said but how much are you offering now? uh whatever I'm telling you I'm not getting it you know it's not uh I I can only
100:15
Speaker A
maybe give you a document that was provided by another group of course all these documents are confidential but you know our friends are sharing this document so that we can look and and compare now that document it says that
100:26
Speaker A
$2 per hectare the point that he was making across and $2 per hectare because I looked at it I saw it was $2 per hectare here it does not expressly mention how much they will give my community in terms of the amount of of
100:46
Speaker A
of of money uh per per your piece of land. So of course that is information it can be changed any time and this is the point that I was bringing you about but is this actually the final document
100:57
Speaker A
because it's kind of curious if you look at the document that was signed by different groups groups in Amboseli the document that the groups inok which is namanga the groups you know the the document that they presented which is the final document
101:11
Speaker A
that will be signed if you look at that document it is $2 $2. Yeah. So I don't think there's any reason ours will be different and from what they were saying it is actually that $2 per hectare not
101:23
Speaker A
per acre which is $2 is about 260 shillings if you take the exchange rate of 130 bob. So if you take that $2 that is around 130 bob per acre. So 130 bob per acre my people here might get around
101:42
Speaker A
whatever the committee was saying 92 acres to maybe 100 acres. For purposes of simplicity, let's say it's 100 acres.
101:49
Speaker A
So 100 acres* 130 that is 13,000 shillings. Someone is paying you 13,000 shillings for 100 acres for a year. And remember the agreement says that you know you cannot really change the usage of the land unless you have prior consent of STFA.
102:12
Speaker A
So right now if you go and hire a piece of land in Narok to do farming, how much do you think they'll charge you for one acre per season? That's around 6,000 shillings. You see, but remember there's no agreement. It is word of mouth
102:33
Speaker A
agreement. After that 6,000 um then you have to vacate the land. Then you absolutely have no right over that piece of land. But this that is 6,000 * 2 because per season is 6,000.
102:46
Speaker A
In two season it is 12,000. 1 acre is 12,000. Tell me 100 acres will be how much?
102:55
Speaker A
Around 120,000 shillings. So this is ridiculous. Why would you offer our people 13,000 Bob for 100 acre piece of land while we know that the prevailing market price for leasing is is around uh 20 and 20,000 shillings per year. You
103:13
Speaker A
see, do you see how ridiculous it is? And then there are also conditions that are attached to that. So I'll give you now another example because remember that a lot of this you need a lawyer to be able to explain to you what it
103:27
Speaker A
actually means. But now some of these people like we have members of our family living in a a place called Kilonito. I sat down with them. I said gentlemen have you heard about Kabul? So they started also explaining to me what
103:41
Speaker A
they heard. Here is the thing because now these are the conditions that are not expressly told to you when they doing whatever they calling uh trainings. So they told me if you have land of 270 acres or the number of cows that you're
104:03
Speaker A
supposed to put in that farm is one cow. So one cow 10 acres. So if you have 270 acres, how many cows will that be?
104:18
Speaker A
27 for them to give you 13,000 boobs, right? In one year. So essentially it is telling our people and of course right now it doesn't look like so in future it will mean you have to reduce the number of cows in that
104:36
Speaker A
piece of land. Why? Because we know what cows eat. They eat the primary machinery that removes carbon from the atmosphere and puts it into the plants and into the soil. You see? So, isn't that interfering with the way of life? That
104:52
Speaker A
is interfering with my people's way of life. So, I did ask them because them what they did, they had to it was a one-on-one contract. So, they had to explain to them that if you want to get into this project, these are the
105:02
Speaker A
conditions because remember that this these people in Clonito, they have their own title deeds. So you have to explain to them the conditions and they can get their own lawyers and the lawyer can read the document and and and then they
105:15
Speaker A
can get into the the agreement when they know fully what are the conditions. Now you see they do not explain these things. They don't. Why?
105:36
Speaker A
because this is jail. You're tying up your land. You know, you're supposed to provide certified copies of Let me read another another another clause that I wanted maybe uh you agreement that is lying to my people. So you find the document is written 2 years
106:00
Speaker A
but they are now saying even the director himself he later on came to say 40 years 40 years for what 13,000 per acre that is a joke he wants to add on that there is also another document I have seen somewhere
106:18
Speaker A
in an email the document says that if you were to sign carbon on 2023 the carbon contract contract will end in 2063. That is automatically 40 years. It has got no breakage of 5 years, 2 years. As they have said
106:36
Speaker A
before, it is automatically 40 years. Okay. So the the reason why we are against this cab because there's a lot of opaque opakeness messages or opaque information beyond this data because 40 years agreement to me that means that
106:56
Speaker A
I'll be 92 years And you know the lifespan of somebody today is 70 years to 80 years. That means that I'll have a balance of 12 years. I've died but the the agreement is still in in effect in effective. What
107:12
Speaker A
of my children? What if it be automatically renewed? It will be renewed another 40 years. That means that I kept my children in a trap whereby they will never came out of that trap. So actually it was amazing and we
107:27
Speaker A
are proud as members for the youth just to come and put everything on table about this cabon. Thank you. And I'm very much aware that even the sign group branches they were not given this document and now now they must be regretting. As we
107:49
Speaker A
wind up, could you uh maybe touch on what this whole event and the awakening?
107:57
Speaker A
What does this mean to you and the members of your community? And maybe talk to other Kenyans who are out there signing agreements that will affect generations after generations after generations. What can they learn from what you guys are trying to demonstrate?
108:15
Speaker A
And also maybe could you talk to the soil for the future Africa? What message does your community have for them?
108:24
Speaker A
So um essentially community right now where it is we have our own issues to deal with.
108:36
Speaker A
Uh it pains me so much that there was actually land subdivision that was ongoing. A lot of illegalities in in in land subdivision. I have had ited across you know these lands. As a young man I went I took my
108:53
Speaker A
father's livestock all over. I know these people. These are my brothers. But now what is happening? They are going to lose a lot of land because of underhand land subdivision dealings you see. So they are in danger as a result
109:09
Speaker A
of what the committee is doing which has a lot of opakeness in it which has a lot of illegalities in it. Of course, we've tried the legal way and the legal way is always slow and we hope even the Kenyan
109:21
Speaker A
court system can can can we are we are asking we are asking the law society of Kenya we are asking all this organization please come in and help because there's a lot of illegality my people depend on this land if you if you
109:36
Speaker A
tell my people to keep 20 goats in a 100 acre piece of land that thing those number of goats are not able to take care of my community. They livestock livestock production needs huge areas of land. And so essentially by tying up these
109:54
Speaker A
pastoral areas, they're essentially killing my community because when they take away the land, then they have effectively cut off the biggest, you know, you know, uh the biggest means means means of of of livelihood for you.
110:09
Speaker A
Exactly. So, I like to tell STFA, the company, please, people have written emails to you. We've had demonstrations on this road. Please stay away from our land.
110:22
Speaker A
What is your problem? Stay away from it. People have rejected it. People don't want that carbon thing. Let us uh uh sort our own issues.
110:34
Speaker A
If perhaps in future we might be interested maybe we might give you a two twoyear contract you paying us 1 million shillings for 100 acres every year we don't mind that nobody nobody everybody wants money like that but you know that
110:49
Speaker A
will be value for money short-term contract that will end if we feel that you know it's not it's it's not for the benefit of the society so time and time again my people have risen against this thing it was fought off two years ago
111:02
Speaker A
they have fought it off Again, we are beseeching the committee and that organization, stay away from our lands.
111:09
Speaker A
Let us fight to to to bring back the land that is about to be stolen through illegal land subdivision. He raised a very important uh point as we wind up.
111:21
Speaker A
Why are they interested in this particular communities and why the long contracts? Do you think this is by design? Yes, this is essentially by design. Just the same way when the British came to Africa, they signed these ridiculous 999year leases for some
111:39
Speaker A
of these huge pieces of land where they never paid for the land. They just came in galivanting all over the world, taking over people's land, saying this is our land now, making our tribal leaders sign into those ridiculous
111:56
Speaker A
agreements. The same thing is happening. I just showed you that if really they went by their their document, what the document says, then essentially they should have permitted our community to get legal representation to go over through the document. Then the legal
112:13
Speaker A
representation will advise the community whether this is a beneficial deal or not because remember that you are transferring the rights to your land.
112:23
Speaker A
It's not just carbon. you are transferring the the rights to the usage of the land which essentially means they will begin to dictate how you shall you shall use the land. So, of course, right now they they do not really say that,
112:37
Speaker A
you see, but the agreement that the 40-year agreement is what actually say says that and and I did tell you in the in the beginning that I was in that meeting and my people were meant to were made to sign this document that does not
112:51
Speaker A
say what it is for and then that document I believe that is what will be used to attach on the 40-year agreement.
112:59
Speaker A
So, essentially they signed what they did not know what they were signing. I want to take this moment to appreciate all of you for taking your time to have this bara with us. Yes. And I would also want to
113:15
Speaker A
encourage more conversations like this because this is the only way we can be able to have impact in our society.
113:33
Speaker A
Thank you. And to you guys who are watching back at home, I really want you to tell me what your thoughts are on today's conversation. It is the year when we will intentionally have these conversations in our homes, in our
113:47
Speaker A
communities, in our villages because I believe this is where change starts. So on the comment section do write me what your takehome has been on today's conversation. I believe the more we have conversations around carbon around these new colonial ways of mastering our
114:05
Speaker A
people then you know we get to learn and learn and learn a thing or two. So on the comment section share what your thoughts are. We will definitely be reaching out to the uh soil for the future Africa for their version of this
114:19
Speaker A
story. So check out maybe at the end of this uh show what is their feedback and if they do not reply to us as well it will be attached on your screen but write to us what else would you want us
114:33
Speaker A
to have in common baras or where would you want to see us next a huge thank you to my team for taking their time to put this work together scholar Muga Joshua AJ and also a kid who is interning with
114:49
Speaker A
us. We appreciate all of you and the entire team at LNN for creating impact one story at a time. Share with us your views on carbon and this new version of colonizing the African mind on the comment section below. Should we give it
115:06
Speaker A
a chance as Africans or is it a big no? And if we were to give it a chance as Africans, how best can we be able to do it to make sure that our people benefit?
115:18
Speaker A
My name is Lin GooGi. I'll catch you guys tomorrow, 10:00 a.m. or 700 p.m.
115:23
Speaker A
Bye-bye. [Music]
Topics:carbon creditKenyaland rightscommunal landland injusticecarbon leaseindigenous communitiesmodern colonizationSoil for the Future AfricaMaasai community

Frequently Asked Questions

What is the main issue discussed in the video?

The video discusses how carbon credit deals in Kenya are forcing local communities off their communal lands through long-term leases with minimal compensation and lack of proper consent.

Who is Soil for the Future Africa Limited in the context of this video?

Soil for the Future Africa Limited is the company promoting carbon credit deals that involve leasing communal lands for 40 years, which local communities are rejecting due to lack of understanding and unfair terms.

Why do the local communities reject the carbon credit deals?

Communities reject the deals because they feel the agreements are imposed without genuine public participation, the terms are unfair, and the projects threaten their traditional ways of life and land ownership.

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