Speaker A
The orcs, the brutal and terrible foot soldiers of the dark forces, have plagued Middle-earth for centuries, serving both Melkor and Sauron and driving the machine of war.
Explores the origin, nature, and fate of orcs after the War of the Ring, including their potential for survival and redemption.
Key Takeaways
- Orcs are corrupted elves with shortened lifespans, not immortal like their original kin.
- The War of the Ring led to the near destruction and dispersal of orc populations.
- Some orcs survived by fleeing and hiding, possibly continuing their existence in secret.
- There is ambiguity about orcs’ capacity for goodness or repentance, with some evidence of desire for peace.
- Tolkien portrays orcs as tragic, corrupted beings shaped by evil but capable of independent action.
Summary
- Orcs were originally corrupted elves created by Melkor, lacking immortality and having shortened lifespans.
- During the War of the Ring, orcs from Dol Guldur, Saruman's forces, and Mordor engaged in multiple battles but were ultimately defeated.
- Post-war, many orcs either died, fled, or hid in remote areas like the Misty Mountains to survive.
- Some orcs showed a desire for freedom from war and domination, hinting at possible self-preservation or deeper motivations.
- Tolkien’s narrative suggests orcs are inherently corrupted beings, unable to create but capable of independent evil acts.
- The cleansing of Dol Guldur and defeats at Helm's Deep and Isengard marked significant losses for orc forces.
- The fate of orcs in Moria remains unclear but hints at eventual decline with the end of Durin's line.
- Some orcs may have continued their existence beyond Sauron's fall, living in dark, hidden places.
- Dialogue between orcs Gorbag and Shagrat reveals their yearning for a peaceful life away from warlords.
- Tolkien’s letters emphasize orcs as a tragic consequence of Morgoth's corruption, highlighting their complex nature.
Full Transcript — Download SRT & Markdown
Speaker A
But what happened to them after Sauron's downfall at the end of the War of the Ring? Did any orcs continue the fight, or did some, touched by a longing for redemption, seek a path of peace?
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Greetings, explorers of Middle-earth, my Gavanin.
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On today's episode, we will unveil the fate of the orcs in Middle-earth. In order to do so, we must travel back to the very genesis of their existence as we unearth the secrets that set the stage for the epic tale that follows.
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Iru Iluvatar, the supreme being in Tolkien's legendarium, first brought the elves into being in Middle-earth.
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In that hour, the children of the earth awoke, the firstborn of Ilúvatar, by the starlit mere of Cuiviénen, water of awakening, they rose from the sleep of Ilúvatar; and while they dwelt yet silent by Cuiviénen their eyes beheld first of all things the stars of heaven.
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Yet, in the shadows, the original Dark Lord Melkor harbored a yearning to craft progeny akin to Eru's children.
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Alas, the flame imperishable, the essence of divine vitality, resided solely within Eru's grasp.
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And so, in lieu of the ability to create, Melkor devised an alternate solution: to corrupt.
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Before long, any elf venturing too far from the region of their awakening, found themselves ensnared by the minions of Melkor, and spirited away to the stronghold of Utumno.
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Here, within the clutches of Melkor, the elves underwent a harrowing transformation, their very essence twisted and bent to the will of the Dark Lord.
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An almost unrecognizable being emerged, a perversion of what was once fair and noble. Thus, the first orcs were born.
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This genesis has instilled a belief among many that orcs, being distorted versions of elves, might share both the destiny and enduring lifespans of their elven kin.
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Yet, within Tolkien's overarching narrative, a recurring theme unfolds: that evil possesses the power only to corrupt, never to create.
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Melkor's twisted manifestations consistently pale in comparison to their original counterparts. Orcs stand as no exception. Contrary to the assumption of shared longevity, they are in fact diminished and bear notably shortened lifespans.
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They could be slain, and they were subject to disease; but apart from these ills they died and were not immortal, even according to the manner of the Quendi; indeed they appear to have been by nature short-lived compared with the span of Men of higher race, such as the Edain.
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Now that we understand the making and the nature of the orc, we must let the winds of war carry us as we shift our gaze to the forces and factions at play during the War of the Ring.
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Within the walls of Dol Guldur, dwelt a formidable host of orcs. As we step into the haunting corridors of this great fortress, let us heed Haldir's description.
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In the midst upon a stony height stands Dol Guldur, where long the hidden enemy had his dwelling.
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We fear that now it is inhabited again, and with power sevenfold.
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The orcs from Dol Guldur were a great menace to the elven realms of Lothlórien and Mirkwood.
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Thrice the forces of Dol Guldur attacked Lothlórien, and thrice they were thrown back.
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In tandem with their assaults on Lothlórien, the relentless orcs also launched an attack on Mirkwood. The clash between the orcs and Thranduil's forces unfolded in the heart of Mirkwood, and in a resolute stand, the elven defenders emerged victorious. Amidst the echoes of these battles, countless orcs fell to the fierce resistance they encountered.
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In the aftermath, Celeborn, undeterred, spearheaded an offensive force against the remnants of these orcs.
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Celeborn came forth and led the host of Lorien over Anduin in many boats. They took Dol Guldur, and Galadriel threw down its walls and laid bare its pits, and the forest was cleansed.
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Saruman, the White Wizard, commanded a formidable host of orcs and Uruk-hai. Yet, in the decisive battles at Helm's Deep and Isengard, the forces of Saruman were inflicted with two comprehensive defeats.
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The Ents, guardians of the ancient forests, and the valiant Rohirrim left no orc standing.
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In the Battle of Dale, Easterlings and orcs collided with the combined might of Erebor and Dale. Although the price was high, with the lives of King Brand and King Dain the Second Ironfoot lost, the forces of darkness were ultimately vanquished.
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In the depths of Moria, a force of orcs lingered in the wake of the destruction of Durin's Bane.
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Tolkien offered scant details on the destiny of these orcs. Yet, while seeking morsels of lore that may unveil the fate of the orcs dwelling in its subterranean depths, a glimmer of insight emerged to me from the pages of The Peoples of Middle-earth, shedding a faint light on the mysterious conclusion of their tale.
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And the Line of Dain prospered, and the wealth and renown of the kingship was renewed, until there arose again for the Last Time an heir of that house that bore the name of Durin, and he returned to Moria.
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And there was Light again in deep places, and the ringing of hammers and the harping of harps, until the world grew old and the Dwarves failed and the days of Durin's race were ended.
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And of course, in the heart of Mordor, a formidable host of orcs still dwelt. As Aragorn led his forces to the Black Gate, and the Ring was cast into the fiery abyss of Mount Doom, Tolkien's words unveiled the fate of the orcs of Mordor.
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So the creatures of Sauron, orc or troll or beast spell-enslaved, ran hither and thither mindless; and some slew themselves, or cast themselves in pits, or fled wailing back to hide in holes and dark lightless places far from hope.
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In the aftermath of Sauron's downfall, some orcs, gripped by despair, or perhaps losing their sanity, chose a grim fate, slaughtering themselves or plunging into pits, seeking escape from a world suddenly bereft of Sauron's dominion.
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Yet, a resilient faction among the orcs opted for a different path. Fleeing into the obscurity of dark recesses, these survivors sought refuge in hidden corners of Middle-earth. After all, the orcs had weathered the storms of downfall before, with the previous defeats of Morgoth and Sauron.
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They were capable of acting on their own, doing evil deeds unbidden for their own sport; moreover, the orcs continued to live and breed and to carry on their business of ravaging and plundering after Morgoth was overthrown.
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So, the possibility lingers that surviving orcs, potentially seeking refuge in the Misty Mountains, for example, might have endeavored to endure and perpetuate their race in the aftermath of Sauron's downfall. Freed from the oppressive fear that had bound them to their dark master, a question arises: could any among them harbor a desire for repentance?
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Was there any goodness within their tormented souls?
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A compelling and revealing glimpse into the psyche of the orcs emerges from one of my favorite pieces of dialogue in The Lord of the Rings.
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I'd like to try somewhere where there's none of 'em, but the war's on now, and when that's over things may be easier. "It's going well," they say. "They would," grunted Gorbag. "We'll see, but anyway, if it does go well, there should be a lot more room.
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What do you say?
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If we get a chance, you and me'll slip off and set up somewhere on our own with a few trusty lads, somewhere where there's good loot nice and handy, and no big bosses.
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Ah!" said Shagrat.
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Like old times.
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This humanizing section of dialogue provides a poignant glimpse into the orcs' yearning for freedom from the perpetual state of war.
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And a desire to settle in a realm beyond Sauron's dominion.
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Is this a genuine desire for a departure from their malevolent ways?
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Or is it rooted primarily in self-preservation?
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Could orcs harbor the capacity for goodness?
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Tolkien touches upon this very subject in letter 153 when discussing orcs: "They would be Morgoth's greatest sins, abuses of his highest privilege, and would be creatures begotten of sin, and naturally bad. (I nearly wrote 'irredeemably bad'; but that would be going too far, because by accepting or tolerating their making - necessary to their actual existence - even orcs would become part of the world, which is God's and ultimately good.)"
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This passage suggests that the notion of orcs finding redemption is not entirely implausible within Tolkien's theoretical framework. While the possibility of orcs repenting exists in theory, it appears to be more a subject of theological speculation than a pragmatic assertion.
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He also states that orcs are naturally bad, which leads me to believe that the most likely outcome is that any orcs remaining alive after the War of the Ring would live out their days with hatred and resentment in their hearts until the very end.
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After all, there were large portions of the history of Middle-earth when no large-scale war was being fought. During these times, it would be possible for some of the more intelligent and less cruel orcs to potentially trade or coexist with men.
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But there is no evidence for this in any of Tolkien's writings.
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A further indicator of the fate awaiting orcs in Middle-earth lies in Tolkien's contemplation of a sequel to The Lord of the Rings, titled The New Shadow.
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Notably absent from the outlined narrative of this prospective sequel are orcs, replaced instead by men who serve as the primary antagonists. This omission provides a compelling clue to Tolkien's intentions, a suggestion that he did not envision a lasting existence for the race of orcs.
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In conclusion, the fate of the orcs is much aligned with the downfall of their Lord Sauron.
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Without any figurehead to rally around, the surviving orcs of Middle-earth likely formed small tribes in caves in the mountains. Their hatred and ill will towards men would never fade.
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These hostile tribes would not long last as the Age of Men was now at hand. Any orc settlements would not go unnoticed as the realms of men thrived and expanded. They would have been hunted to the very extinction of their race, until the scourge of orc kind was wiped from the face of the earth and banished to the pages of history.
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In arriving upon this conclusion, I find myself wondering if this is a ruthless genocide, or an inescapable destiny required in order to remove as much of the influence of Morgoth as possible from Arda Marred.
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Pondering the concepts of pity and mercy towards those seemingly irredeemable, akin to Gandalf's teachings to Frodo regarding Gollum, invites us to examine the passing of judgment upon those we may personally deem to be worthy of death.
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As our journey through the enchanted realms of Middle-earth comes to a close, I would like to take this opportunity to light the beacons and call for aid. So, if you have enjoyed today's video, please remember that every like, share, and subscribe is a beacon of support that helps me continue to put more time into making more videos like this one.
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Don't forget to join the discussion by sharing your thoughts and theories in the comments below.
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I always enjoy hearing your insights and perspectives.
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Thank you for tuning in to Realms Unraveled.
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Farewell, fellow travelers.
Topics:OrcsWar of the RingMiddle-earthTolkien loreDol GuldurSauronMordorMoriaOrc originsOrc fate
