Speaker A
Always Talk to Al Jazeera.
Kazakhstan's President Tokayev discusses balancing relations with Russia, China, and the West amid shifting global dynamics and reform efforts.
Ask about this video. Answers come from its transcript only — with the timestamp, so you can check them.
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Key Takeaways
- Kazakhstan aims to balance relations with Russia, China, and the West without compromising its sovereignty or reform agenda.
- The country prioritizes diversification of trade and transport routes but continues to rely heavily on Russian infrastructure for oil exports.
- Middle powers like Kazakhstan are seen as crucial players in upholding multilateralism and reforming global institutions like the UN.
- Kazakhstan remains pragmatic about international organizations such as BRICS, opting for observer status while assessing effectiveness.
- Despite external geopolitical pressures, Kazakhstan pursues a steady reform process focused on justice, inclusion, and transparency.
What the video covers
- Kazakhstan is strategically located between Russia and China, playing a key role in Eurasian stability and China's Belt and Road Initiative.
- President Kassym-Jomart Tokayev emphasizes ongoing reforms in Kazakhstan despite external challenges like COVID-19 and the Ukraine war.
- Kazakhstan pursues a balanced foreign policy, maintaining strong ties with Russia and China while diversifying trade routes such as the Middle Corridor.
- The CPC pipeline through Russia remains the primary route for Kazakhstan's oil exports, with no immediate plans to reduce reliance on it.
- Tokayev supports multilateralism and believes middle powers like Kazakhstan should have a greater role in global peace and security.
- He acknowledges challenges in the UN Security Council and advocates for UN reforms to reflect the current global landscape.
- Kazakhstan holds observer status in BRICS but remains cautious about full membership due to concerns over the organization's structure and effectiveness.
- The President highlights Kazakhstan's pragmatic approach to foreign relations, balancing partnerships without restructuring its core foreign policy.
- The Astana International Forum serves as a platform to showcase Kazakhstan's role and ambitions in global diplomacy and economic integration.
- Tokayev stresses the importance of national goals alongside maintaining stability in Central Asia amid geopolitical tensions.
Full Transcript — Download SRT & Markdown
Speaker B
Talks between two giants, Russia and China, and rich in oil, gas and rare elements.
Speaker B
Kazakhstan sits at the crossroads of global power.
Speaker B
Landlocked in the heart of Central Asia, it shares the world's longest continuous land border with Russia.
Speaker B
And plays a central role in China's Belt and Road ambitions.
Speaker B
As the war in Ukraine shifting geopolitical dynamics test and even redefine global alliances.
Speaker B
Does Kazakhstan find itself under growing pressure to pick sides?
Speaker B
Or can it really balance strong relations with China and Russia with deepening ties with the West?
Speaker B
I'm Sami Zeidan in Astana where President Kassym-Jomart Tokayev.
Speaker B
Once a Soviet trained diplomat and UN official, has promised reform.
Speaker B
A new Kazakhstan built on justice, inclusion and transparency.
Speaker B
But three years on, is he delivering?
Speaker B
The President of Kazakhstan, Kassym-Jomart Tokayev, talks to Al Jazeera.
Speaker A
Talk to Al Jazeera.
Speaker B
President of Kazakhstan, Mr. Kassym-Jomart Tokayev.
Speaker B
Thank you so much for talking to Al Jazeera.
Speaker C
It's my pleasure to be with you.
Speaker B
Thank you.
Speaker B
So, we're here in the week in which the Astana International Forum is presenting Kazakhstan once again to the world.
Speaker B
Three years on since you unveiled the reform program, do you feel you've delivered the new Kazakhstan that you promised?
Speaker C
Yes, we are in the process, frankly speaking.
Speaker C
It's not that easy, uh, because there were so many, uh, developments outside of, uh, Kazakhstan.
Speaker C
That impacted, uh, the process of reforms.
Speaker B
COVID, the war in Ukraine.
Speaker C
Yes, absolutely.
Speaker C
And, uh, I believe that, uh, it's not that easy, uh, we must be frank.
Speaker C
We must be pragmatic.
Speaker C
But at the same time, we need to be very much bold as far as our reforms are concerned.
Speaker C
That's why I am telling my people that, uh, we should be very much firm.
Speaker C
Uh, with regard to achieving all goals that have been put in our agenda.
Speaker C
Yes, the process is still going on, but it's a very positive one.
Speaker B
Looking at your foreign relations, sir.
Speaker B
Is Kazakhstan going through a process of rethinking some of its foreign partnerships, rebalancing some of its trading relationships?
Speaker B
Like the middle corridor project in order not to be too reliant, too close on any one great power.
Speaker C
First of all, I wouldn't say so that we are making some.
Speaker C
Reforms with regard to our foreign policy.
Speaker C
Uh, because it's a very conservative, uh, phenomenon.
Speaker C
But at the same time, of course, we need to bear in mind what is happening outside of Kazakhstan.
Speaker C
Kazakhstan is a pillar of stability and security in Eurasia.
Speaker C
Particularly in Central Asia.
Speaker C
And, uh, from the very beginning, we have been pursuing the policy of, uh, making balance between big powers.
Speaker C
Our immediate neighbors.
Speaker C
But at the same time, promoting our national goals.
Speaker C
And that's why, uh, I wouldn't say that, uh, we are restructuring the whole foreign policy.
Speaker C
Uh, but, uh, you were right, uh, having mentioned, uh, the middle corridor.
Speaker C
Because, uh, for us, uh, the priority is, uh, to diversify our transportation links.
Speaker C
With the outside world.
Speaker C
And in this respect, of course, Trans-Caspian transport route.
Speaker C
Is absolutely important.
Speaker C
And, uh, as you know, we are also a great supporter of One Belt, One Road initiative.
Speaker C
Put forward by Xi Jinping.
Speaker C
Chairman of China.
Speaker C
And it's not coincidence that, uh, as early as, uh, 2013.
Speaker C
Xi Jinping announced this initiative in Astana.
Speaker C
In the capital of Kazakhstan.
Speaker B
Last year, S&P Global said that about 80% of Kazakhstan's oil flows through the CPC pipeline to Russia.
Speaker B
Is that something that you think you need to change?
Speaker B
Does it represent a strategic vulnerability for Kazakhstan?
Speaker C
We should, uh, bear in mind that, uh, Russia is a strategic partner of Kazakhstan.
Speaker C
Our immediate neighbor and ally of Kazakhstan.
Speaker C
We share the longest border with Russia in the world.
Speaker C
And of course, uh, we count on Russia as our strategic partner.
Speaker C
And we count particularly on CPC.
Speaker C
Just recently, I had a telephone conversation with President Putin.
Speaker C
And we have been talking, frankly speaking, about CPC.
Speaker C
How it's going to be used.
Speaker C
In the future.
Speaker C
And I believe that, uh, CPC will be continuously serving as a good instrument of shipping.
Speaker C
Or transporting our oil through Russia to the European market as well as beyond.
Speaker B
So you're not concerned about the impact of the war in Ukraine.
Speaker B
And what that means for your ability to to send your oil to Europe through that pipeline?
Speaker C
Yes, uh, of course, we take into account.
Speaker C
What is happening in Ukraine.
Speaker C
It's impact, I mean, the impact of military conflict between both Russia and Ukraine.
Speaker C
On our strategic plans, uh, with regard to natural resources.
Speaker C
And the export to the international market.
Speaker C
At the same time, uh, we have a strong belief, uh, in our strategic partnership with Russia.
Speaker C
But it doesn't mean that we are focusing only one transportation route.
Speaker C
That's why you were right, absolutely, mentioning other routes.
Speaker C
And, uh, Baku-Ceyhan pipeline.
Speaker C
Uh, middle corridor.
Speaker C
But, uh, practically speaking, in terms of amount of oil, which is being transported or exported abroad.
Speaker C
Still, of course, the priority is being made on CPC.
Speaker C
And should be made on CPC.
Speaker B
Right now, the Astana International Forum is underway.
Speaker B
Is it a sign that Kazakhstan believes middle powers need to play a bigger role?
Speaker B
In upholding the international multilateral system?
Speaker C
Yes, I strongly believe, uh, in multilateralism.
Speaker C
And, uh, I strongly believe that, uh, it is, uh, the so-called middle powers.
Speaker C
Should play a bigger role, uh, in safeguarding peace and security in the world.
Speaker B
Do you think, sir, that sometimes the great powers might be undermining?
Speaker B
The multilateral system, I mean, sometimes we hear rhetoric from some of the great powers.
Speaker B
Talking about America first, talking about.
Speaker B
Um, the importance of bilateral rather than multilateral mechanisms.
Speaker C
Yes, it's happening now.
Speaker C
And multilateralism is faltering.
Speaker C
You know that the Security Council of the United Nations is in deadlock.
Speaker B
Is that a threat to the world?
Speaker C
Yes, it's a big threat.
Speaker C
It's a big challenge to the world.
Speaker C
That's why I believe that, uh, middle powers like Kazakhstan should play bigger.
Speaker C
More important role in tackling and addressing major international issues.
Speaker C
And, uh, that's why Kazakhstan is strongly committed to reforming the United Nations.
Speaker C
In the beginning of United Nations history, there were only 51 states that are being considered.
Speaker C
As founding members of the United Nations.
Speaker C
Nowadays, we have 193 states.
Speaker C
We believe that all states, first of all, as you said, middle powers should join their efforts.
Speaker C
In order to make United Nations more equitable.
Speaker C
More eligible to the contemporary world.
Speaker B
So along those lines, I'm wondering, Mr. President, why then.
Speaker B
If Kazakhstan is is seeking to build this partnership with middle powers.
Speaker B
Why did Kazakhstan delay its application to join BRICS last year?
Speaker B
I think in October.
Speaker C
I'm very much grateful to those countries that supported our application.
Speaker C
To get the status of an observer in BRICS.
Speaker C
But I'm very much pragmatic.
Speaker C
And, uh, what I can see that there are no fixed structures.
Speaker C
Within BRICS.
Speaker C
No charter, no secretariat.
Speaker C
No programs and so on.
Speaker B
Are you worried that it's not an effective organization, or are you worried that Kazakhstan?
Speaker B
Might be seen as too close to some powers like China and Russia.
Speaker B
And you want to balance your relationships with the West as well.
Speaker C
First of all, it's about.
Speaker C
The supposed efficiency or effectiveness of the organization.
Speaker C
Yes, uh, there are big powers.
Speaker C
There are middle-scale powers.
Speaker C
Small powers.
Speaker C
In each international organization.
Speaker C
It does happen and it's a reality of the world.
Speaker C
But, uh, let's first of all, see whether BRICS is going to be efficient enough.
Speaker C
As a very well promoted and proclaimed international organization.
Speaker C
And that's why I said that, uh, okay, at least on the first stage.
Speaker C
We are going to be, uh, observer in BRICS.
Speaker C
And then time will show.
Speaker B
So you don't have a date in mind for when you might reactivate your application to join?
Speaker C
No, we have no such plans.
Speaker C
Uh, we have been fixed as a observer state in BRICS.
Speaker C
And I believe that it's quite enough.
Speaker B
Looking at some of your bilateral trade.
Speaker B
China is a very important trading partner for Kazakhstan.
Speaker B
I think the figures a couple of years ago spoke of 31 billion dollars in trade with China.
Speaker B
Trade with the US much smaller, but it increased in 2023 by 32%.
Speaker B
Is Kazakhstan trying to catch up to balance its trade between key trading partners and global powers?
Speaker C
First of all, I would like to mention that, uh, it is the European Union as a big international entity.
Speaker C
Is number one trade partner of Kazakhstan.
Speaker C
And last year, our trade volume reached 50 billion dollars.
Speaker C
The second one is China.
Speaker C
And our trade volume with China exceeded 45 billion dollars.
Speaker C
And the third trade partner of Kazakhstan is Russia.
Speaker C
We have trade of 27 billion dollars.
Speaker C
As to the United States, we put focus and priority on attracting investments.
Speaker C
From the United States, first of all.
Speaker C
Our trade volume is not that big.
Speaker C
Only 4 billion dollars.
Speaker C
But at the same time, we export uranium, oil and chrome.
Speaker C
To the American market.
Speaker C
And I think that, uh, it's a strategic partnership.
Speaker C
Strategic trade between both Kazakhstan and the United States.
Speaker C
Unfortunately, recently, US administration has put high tariffs on our export.
Speaker C
But we are not dramatizing this trend.
Speaker C
And I believe that this decision.
Speaker C
And I believe that it's a matter of further negotiations.
Speaker B
All right, coming to some more domestic economic issues.
Speaker B
During your tenure, GDP has expanded in in Kazakhstan around 55% between 2019 and 2024.
Speaker B
But wealth distribution is still a challenge.
Speaker B
Data from the World Inequality Database shows the wealthiest 1% still controls almost 30% of the nation's assets.
Speaker B
While 50% holds less than 5%.
Speaker B
How do you plan to reduce inequality?
Speaker B
How do you plan to speed up that distribution?
Speaker C
You were right saying that our GDP is increasing.
Speaker C
Last year, it reached 219 billion dollars.
Speaker C
And in terms of per capita, we are number one in this part of the world.
Speaker C
Our GDP is the largest one in Central Asia.
Speaker C
But of course, we are not complacent.
Speaker C
And you were right mentioning the distribution of wealth in Kazakhstan.
Speaker C
It's a matter which is concerning me as a president.
Speaker B
Has it not moved as fast as you would have liked it to have have moved?
Speaker C
Yes.
Speaker B
What what held it back?
Speaker B
What stopped you from moving as quickly as you wanted to?
Speaker C
So many negative factors outside of Kazakhstan in the very beginning of our talk.
Speaker C
We have mentioned some of them.
Speaker C
And then there are some also natural impediments.
Speaker C
And that's why I was hoping that the economic growth of Kazakhstan will reach at least 5.5% this year.
Speaker C
Uh, it's going to be so.
Speaker C
We predict that at least it will be over than 5%.
Speaker C
But it's not that ambitious that we have been looking for.
Speaker C
And, uh, that's why my government is looking for some additional sources of economic growth.
Speaker C
And, uh, as I said, uh, we have four priorities.
Speaker C
First of all, huge infrastructural projects.
Speaker C
Then digitalization and artificial intelligence.
Speaker C
And then agriculture.
Speaker C
And then transport and logistics.
Speaker C
And I believe that the goals will be reached.
Speaker C
Within my presidency, which is going to be expired in 2029.
Speaker B
You mentioned sir, by 2029.
Speaker B
You hope to grow, I think, these non-hydrocarbon sectors.
Speaker B
And right now, I think the hydrocarbon sectors, they account for over 50% of Kazakhstan's exports.
Speaker B
Do you think you can achieve a rebalance of that or achieve a situation where your non-hydrocarbon exports?
Speaker B
Are the majority by 2029?
Speaker C
Yes, hydrocarbon export, frankly speaking.
Speaker C
Still will be a majority of our trade.
Speaker C
To the international market.
Speaker C
We should be pragmatic.
Speaker C
Continuously be pragmatic.
Speaker C
And I said that, uh, Kazakhstan is going to become a non-hydrocarbon country.
Speaker C
In 2060.
Speaker C
It's quite, I think, a very much pragmatic and I would say a modest program.
Speaker C
Based on what we do have and on what we are going to have.
Speaker C
Coal in our inner or domestic energy balance.
Speaker C
Accounts for 73%.
Speaker C
We cannot give up coal.
Speaker C
Just overnight.
Speaker C
We have natural resources like oil in terms of producing uranium.
Speaker C
We are number one in the world, 40% of the world market belong to Kazakhstan.
Speaker B
Related to the IT industry, sir.
Speaker B
And the digital infrastructure, you've made progress.
Speaker B
You've established more than 20,000 kilometers of fiber optic lines.
Speaker B
You've established the Astana Hub.
Speaker B
Boosting IT exports to over 280 million dollars in 2023.
Speaker B
But there still are challenges.
Speaker B
How can you address bureaucratic hurdles to startups?
Speaker B
A shortage of specialists in some cases.
Speaker B
And low research and development spending.
Speaker C
Yes, it's also one of our problems.
Speaker C
Which is on the agenda.
Speaker C
But at the same time, we have made a big progress.
Speaker C
First of all, we have made or produced our smart computer.
Speaker C
Which has been delivered recently to Kazakhstan.
Speaker C
In close cooperation with well-known foreign companies.
Speaker C
And we are very much grateful to them.
Speaker C
Being our strategic partners in this very important case.
Speaker C
And as I said, digitalization is our priority.
Speaker C
And my dream is that Kazakhstan someday later.
Speaker C
Will become a fully digitalized country.
Speaker B
When when is the target date for that?
Speaker C
I think that it's in five years.
Speaker B
In five years.
Speaker C
In five years, it's absolutely possible.
Speaker C
And, uh, you're just been talking about bureaucracy.
Speaker C
It does exist in Kazakhstan as well as in so many countries.
Speaker C
And digitalization is one of most efficient instruments.
Speaker C
To tackle this problem.
Speaker C
Digitalization.
Speaker C
And artificial intelligence.
Speaker C
Nobody knows what will be the end of this story.
Speaker C
And in this context, I've already made a statement.
Speaker C
On the margins of the International Forum here.
Speaker C
That in the context of developing very speedy development of artificial intelligence in the world.
Speaker C
This kind of conflicts, wars between states.
Speaker C
Look very much outdated.
Speaker C
We must put focus on artificial intelligence.
Speaker C
Digitalization.
Speaker C
Put focus on developing.
Speaker C
On giving education to the younger generation.
Speaker C
Put focus in enlightening our people.
Speaker C
Bringing them forward in development.
Speaker C
But not being engaged in military conflicts.
Speaker C
Killing each other.
Speaker C
It's very much outdated.
Speaker C
It's very much primitive, I would say.
Speaker B
Since we're talking about how to address and rebalance the wealth.
Speaker B
You've made progress in dismantling some of the privileges held by the elites of the former leader, Nursultan Nazarbayev.
Speaker B
You've conducted investigations, there's been convictions for embezzlement.
Speaker B
You've recovered 1.2 billion dollars.
Speaker B
I think in 2022.
Speaker B
Sir, is there more work to be done?
Speaker B
Some critics would say some of the key institutions of the Nazarbayev network.
Speaker B
Haven't come under so much scrutiny like the Nazarbayev Fund.
Speaker B
The Hal Bank and so on.
Speaker B
What would you say to that, sir?
Speaker C
No, of course, there is a criticism of what we are doing here.
Speaker C
But we have done a lot of things, very much positive things.
Speaker C
For the benefit of our people.
Speaker C
Of our society.
Speaker C
And of course, we should acknowledge a historical role of President Nazarbayev.
Speaker C
Who came out to be the first one in our modern history.
Speaker C
Yes, there were mistakes, embezzlements, as you have said.
Speaker C
And we have been investigating and this process is going on.
Speaker C
But at the same time, I'm not going to make a mess here in Kazakhstan.
Speaker C
Uh, because it will lead to the destabilization of the situation in my country.
Speaker B
Do you look sometimes, sir, at other countries and say, we need to learn?
Speaker B
About the speed of reform, is that a real worry for you?
Speaker B
The stabilization.
Speaker C
Yes, we need first of all to take lessons.
Speaker C
What is happening in so many countries?
Speaker C
First of all, in China, in Russia.
Speaker C
In many countries.
Speaker C
And stability, inner stability is my first priority.
Speaker C
You should understand that without stability, there'll be no reforms.
Speaker C
No modernization, no transformation of our society.
Speaker B
The Organization for Security and Cooperation in Europe, which observed the 2023 parliamentary elections.
Speaker B
Did acknowledge political reforms, amendments that you've made.
Speaker B
To increase voter choice.
Speaker B
To bring Kazakhstan closer to international standards.
Speaker B
But they say more reform is needed, particularly on some of the restrictions on freedom of assembly and campaigning.
Speaker B
The need for people to obtain or the right of Akimats, the mayors.
Speaker B
To refuse some outdoor campaigning events on a broad list of grounds.
Speaker B
Do you believe some of those restrictions need to be lifted, sir?
Speaker C
No, I don't believe so.
Speaker C
And our laws are quite democratic.
Speaker C
Kazakhstan as a whole in nature.
Speaker C
Essentially is a democratic state.
Speaker C
And we have done a lot.
Speaker C
To make it so.
Speaker C
So, I don't care about estimations made by OSCE.
Speaker C
Uh, because it's a very much biased organization.
Speaker C
Uh, but at the same time, we are committed to having close cooperation.
Speaker C
With the OSCE institutions.
Speaker C
And we are quite an active member state of this organization.
Speaker C
And we hosted the summit in 2010.
Speaker C
The last one.
Speaker C
So this organization has no summits for 15 years.
Speaker C
So we should judge from this very fact whether the OSCE is an efficient organization.
Speaker C
But once again, I don't care about those evaluations.
Speaker C
I wouldn't say that they are unbiased.
Speaker B
Okay, how about the process for registering opposition groups?
Speaker B
You've made a lot of reforms.
Speaker B
You've allowed for the first time legalized opposition parties.
Speaker B
You've set a limit on the presidential term for the first time.
Speaker B
Some of the international human rights groups like Human Rights Watch are calling for a change in the registration process.
Speaker B
That sometimes delays.
Speaker B
They give an example of, for example, Alga Kazakhstan has been rejected 24 times.
Speaker B
Does that need some reform, sir?
Speaker C
I don't believe so.
Speaker C
Because I'm promoting my own strategy.
Speaker C
Which is called law and order.
Speaker C
We have fixed our laws in full compliance with international standards.
Speaker C
I don't believe that we should follow recommendations.
Speaker C
Of human rights organizations.
Speaker C
Nowadays, we know who or which countries.
Speaker C
Have been financing them.
Speaker C
We know that there are so many cynical people.
Speaker C
Who have been working or engaged or employed in these organizations.
Speaker C
And once again, they are not unbiased.
Speaker C
They don't want to understand the historic background.
Speaker C
Political mindset of the people.
Speaker C
They just give recommendations.
Speaker C
But I won't say that all countries, including Kazakhstan.
Speaker C
Should blindly follow those recommendations.
Speaker C
First of all, we should think about our national strategies.
Speaker C
That must be properly delivered for the benefit of our countries.
Speaker C
And first of all, of my country.
Speaker C
I'm just saying as President of Kazakhstan.
Speaker B
And of course, you are doing a reform process.
Speaker B
But sir, do you think that that reform needs to widen when it comes to journalists?
Speaker B
There is there are calls by Reporters Without Borders to remove the necessity of journalists having to obtain a permit.
Speaker B
To to work in Kazakhstan.
Speaker B
Do you think that the reform process needs to look at that or at some of the laws on promotion of extremism?
Speaker B
Where human rights groups cite sometimes the use of those laws and criminal charges against journalists.
Speaker B
Against opposition figures.
Speaker B
What do you say to that, sir?
Speaker C
I think that we have close connections with all journalists.
Speaker C
Whether they represent the so-called opposition forces.
Speaker C
Or those who are supporting our strategy.
Speaker C
So our attitude is absolutely equal.
Speaker C
And then of course, I'm not saying that we have already stopped all our reforms.
Speaker C
The process of reforms is very much long, steady.
Speaker C
And Kazakhstan is a reformist country.
Speaker C
We will be continuing, continuously doing our reforms.
Speaker C
And there'll be no obstacles.
Speaker C
And my credo that we should make substantial reforms for the benefit of Kazakhstan.
Speaker C
Bearing in mind what we would like to have, say, in five years, in 10 years and so on.
Speaker C
You just mentioned one term.
Speaker C
President in Kazakhstan.
Speaker C
It's a huge reform.
Speaker C
It's a huge political reform.
Speaker B
And you're committed to respecting that yourself.
Speaker C
Yes, in 2029, I have already announced that I will step down.
Speaker C
And I will resign.
Speaker C
Because it's a demand of my people.
Speaker C
And as a personal, as a human being, I strongly believe that.
Speaker C
President of any country, first of all, of my country.
Speaker C
Is a state manager.
Speaker C
He's not a messenger of God.
Speaker C
He's a state manager who has been hired by his own people.
Speaker C
In our case, for seven years only.
Speaker B
President Kassym-Jomart Tokayev, thank you so much for talking to Al Jazeera, sir.
Speaker C
Thank you.
Topics:KazakhstanKassym-Jomart TokayevRussiaChinaBelt and Road InitiativeMiddle CorridorCPC pipelineBRICSmultilateralismAstana International Forum
