Can Steven Bartlett Be Convinced To Go The Distance? | Dragons' Den

Hi Dragons. My name is Rupert Cattell and I'm the founder and CEO of Roadrower.

And I'm looking for a £50,000 investment for 10% of my business.

So for more years than I can care to remember, I've sat in sweaty gyms on rowing machines staring at a wall. And how boring is that?

But the reason I did it was because rowing is the most fantastic all over body exercise.

Wouldn't it be great if somebody invented a bike that mirrored the rowing action and you're out in the fresh air and the sunshine and you were having fun?

And so that's where the idea of the road rower came from.

So let me show you how it works.

You're sitting on a nice big wide seat.

Feet on the pedals, hands on the handlebars, you pull back with the handlebars, push away with the feet, that turns the cog, which drives the chain, which turns the wheel, which gives you forward momentum.

And there's also an electric motor

to help you with those starts and tricky hill climbs.

Now we're pre-revenue.

Uh the retail price is going to be £3.5,000.

Now would anyone like to have a go?

Can I try it?

Please.

A fitness machine that combines the benefits of rowing and cycling is the brainchild of entrepreneur and inventor Rupert Cattell.

Just relax.

Nice and slow, don't be jerky.

He's seeking a £50,000 investment for a 10% share in his company.

You're actually not going anywhere though.

No, Peter, sorry, it's um, it's obviously on a stand

because if we're trying to put it in the studio, it'll go all over the place.

So would it?

Well, yeah, because it's it in one stroke would take you probably 20 or 30 feet.

Right.

With Stephen Bartlett's workout now complete, a fundamental question is exercising Peter Jones.

Why? Why do you think that people would buy this product?

Okay, so um, it gets you outside and it stops you sitting on a rowing machine getting bored out of your brain.

What's the next why?

So, so, so why? So they still want to do exercise.

They want to look good physically, yeah.

So that's one of the main drivers.

No, like this.

Is they, you know,

Look, so you want to look like this.

They all want to look like this.

I get that.

But I'm going on the why.

So why?

I don't get the point here.

I don't, I don't understand the question.

Because I feel as though I've kind of answered it.

No, you haven't.

No, you haven't.

Because you're you're rational for why, you've answered on the basis of the fact that people want to get fit and they want to get outside.

Yeah.

That's not a good enough why.

Because I could just walk outside and run down the road.

Indeed, you could.

Absolutely.

I could get on my bike and go down the road.

But I'm saying why would you do that on a road rower?

Okay.

Because firstly, on a bike you're only exercising your legs, yeah.

Secondly, if you're going for a run, you're jarring your knees and your joints and your hips and so forth.

Whereas on a rowing machine or a rowing bike, you're not doing any of that.

Rupert is adamant that his invention offers all the benefits of cycling, running and rowing with none of the potential drawbacks.

Now, Touker Suleyman wants to find out more about the man behind the machine.

So what makes you an inventor?

What's your background?

Oh gosh, uh, so I've been an entrepreneur for 40 years.

Yeah.

Uh, is it genetic?

My great-grandfather was a guy called Edgar Hooley who invented Tarmac.

Right.

So give us a couple of examples of what you've created and and how they've ended up.

So, um, I originally qualified as a solicitor.

And I was always a very reluctant lawyer.

So I decided to start a chain of day nurseries.

Um, and after eight or nine years I sold that.

You you got good money for it.

Uh, yeah, it was okay.

Good.

Yeah.

My why is slightly different to Peter's.

Why don't you, you've got the money, why are you doing here?

Why don't you, if you believe in this,

just do it.

Yeah.

Very good question.

Because I want you.

Because I've never started a leisure product like this before.

Okay.

What do you need specifically?

So, okay, so I need help with how to position the product.

How to answer Peter's question about the why.

I know, I know, I know.

No.

No.

The first question of anything before you start down the road on a business is why?

Um, I believe, I believe I've given the answer to the why question.

No, you just said.

Peter's obviously

You want to know, that's what you want to know from us.

I believe I've given you the why question.

Because it's fantastic exercise and it's really good fun.

You're not getting Peter's why.

So maybe I'm missing something.

I'm not asking.

I'm saying what you're you're

Okay, so I want

You're a wealthy guy, you've you've got, you're absolutely committed to this.

Why are you in here?

Because I want your knowledge and skill of how to develop and build the market for something that's so revolutionary and different.

Stephen Bartlett was quick to test out the product.

But will he be as eager to jump on board with the business?

I actually think it's quite cool.

I think it's really cool.

And thank you, Stephen, uh because I get loads of compliments about it.

That is it.

From children saying to their parents, oh, Dad, look at that cool bike.

That's what I mean.

For me, this is a a fun leisure thing to do with your maybe your family when you're in the countryside.

We've rented bicycles, we've sometimes rented really cool modes of transport for fun, like a Segway on the weekend.

When we when we're in a space where we're traveling through nature or something like that.

But it's definitely not a fitness item.

It's really inconvenient and clunky as a fitness item.

And it's it's I'm not going to be able to commute to work on this because there's real issues with the turning.

The turning circle if we were in here would be so wide.

There's no chance on earth I would be able to go through traffic or past people on this massive contraption where I can't turn.

I've I've ridden this around the streets of Central London.

But contrast that to a bicycle.

My turning circle on a bicycle might be two meters.

Yeah.

On here it would be 10, eight or 10 meters.

Right, maybe not quite as much as that, but yeah, okay, yeah, it's going to

So that's what I think. I think from a positioning standpoint, going to, I don't know, leisure holiday companies that put those Segways and those really interesting nature places.

And it's a cool new mode of transport is maybe a market.

How big is that market?

Don't know.

How do we access that market?

Don't really know.

So, as much as I do think it's cool, I do think it's cool.

Um, I'm going to say that I'm out because I don't think it's an investment.

Rupert loses his first dragon as Stephen Bartlett struggles to get a handle on his machine's potential market.

Peter Jones, however, seems more preoccupied by this entrepreneur's family history.

Your grandfather invented Tarmac.

Yeah.

That's wow.

Great-grandfather.

Great-grandfather.

Did he monetize that?

Is he a billionaire?

Um, no, he ran out of money.

No.

Um, he sold it, he sold his shares out of that.

But where he went wrong is he then put all of that money into a glove factory.

Okay.

Is there any, is there anything that gives you a little bit of lessons of the past that you could bring into the current?

In other words, he lost all his money.

I know where you're going with this, Peter.

Um, and and I've been, I've been in business for 40 years and yes, I've made a, you know, a million mistakes.

And I learn always from my mistakes.

Um, but I just think I, I believe in this and I think it's really good fun and it's a great product.

Look, I do think that these are things where there are some people in life, you look at things, you think, you know what?

I'm going to see if this works.

Could this work?

And that's a that's a great thing.

Because if we didn't have inventors today, where would we be?

Um, but I think there's one reason why you don't see going down on two wheels across the whole of the country.

You don't see multi-gyms.

You don't see steppers.

Yeah.

There's a reason for that.

Is that it just doesn't work commercially.

It's not an investment today and I'm out.

Listen, I don't like it.

I don't like it.

Um, and, you know, if I don't like something,

I can't invest in it.

So it's it's as simple as that, so I won't be.

Okay.

I'm out.

Okay.

Rupert.

Touker.

You have a passion for rowing.

Always have.

And your passion for rowing in my view has blurred you with the commerciality of this product.

Personally, I think it looks like it's come out of a Frankenstein's workshop.

Oh.

Right.

A bit harsh.

It's all the bits and the it's all the chains going over where.

Thanks, Stephen.

It just doesn't look right.

And and I just think you will struggle with this.

But surely, surely that one of the key ingredients in looking for

I'm not sure you're going to convince them.

Are you in or out, Touker?

Look, all I'm all I'm saying to you, Rupert, is I commend you for really, really chasing your passion.

But you won't be having my money to back it up.

Okay.

For that reason, I'm out.

Four Dragons down, and Rupert's hopes of rowing into the sunset with a life-changing deal

now lie solely with Sara Davies.

I think you've had a bit of a harder time in here today than you've deserved.

Oh.

Because I actually looked at that when I was sat here before you came out the lift and I thought,

I don't know what that is, but that looks pretty awesome.

And actually, I felt like when you explained to Peter the why, you just didn't do it succinctly enough.

Uh-huh.

Because when I was listening to you, I was thinking, oh yeah, I like to go running and you're right.

It's terrible for my joints.

And I love going on the rowing machine at the gym, but it's really boring.

So I can totally see the need for the product.

Yeah.

The problem is, you've got the wrong price point for the demographic of customer you're hitting.

You haven't come in here saying that this is pitched for professional rowers to train.

Had you said that, I could understand, okay, that's the niche market, they'd prepare to spend £3.5,000.

But you haven't said it to that market, you've said it's a wider, more generic market, which might be someone like me who likes rowing, wants to cycle, doesn't want to run.

But I wouldn't spend £3.5,000 on that.

So I think the market is very, very niche and very small.

So I definitely won't be giving you 50 grand of my hard earned cash to get this off the ground.

Um, but well done on inventing something that's pretty clever and looks really cool.

But um, I won't be investing in that.

Okay.

Thanks, Sara.

Thanks for your time.

Thank you.