**Як перетворити помилки в рушій свого розвитку | Ірина Горова  @SergiyNozdrachov ​ — Transcript & Summary | SozAI**
Source: https://sozai.app/transcript/turn-mistakes-into-growth-iryna-horova/

Iryna Horova discusses transforming chaos into structured growth and talent development in the Ukrainian music industry.

## Key Takeaways

- Embracing chaos while applying structure is key to growth in creative industries.
- Courage to be authentic and imperfect drives personal and professional development.
- Talent alone is insufficient without systems and strategic business approaches.
- Continuous learning and unpacking new knowledge help evolve business practices.
- Building scalable, sustainable companies requires balancing creativity with clear processes.

## What the video covers

- Iryna Horova shares her journey from banking to founding a successful Ukrainian music label and talent platform.
- She reflects on the challenges of structuring a creative business and the chaos inherent in it.
- The conversation highlights the importance of courage to be oneself and embrace imperfections.
- Iryna discusses insights gained from business school (KMBS) that helped her bring structure and strategy to her company.
- Her Gallup strengths profile reveals a dual nature of organizing chaos and thriving in dynamic environments.
- She combines a desire for structure with creativity and a drive to influence and be visible.
- The video explores the balance between talent and systems in creative industries.
- Iryna emphasizes the need for scalable business models and strategic partnerships.
- The discussion touches on personal branding, growth conditions for artists, and leadership challenges.
- Overall, the video offers a nuanced view of managing creative chaos and building sustainable success.

## Chapters

1. 00:00 Introduction and setting the stage
2. 03:31 Challenges of structuring creative businesses
3. 08:02 Balancing chaos and order in leadership
4. 12:06 Insights from Gallup strengths and personal traits
5. 15:36 Personal branding and communication
6. 22:15 Talent, systems, and scaling creative industries
7. 27:28 Building growth conditions and leadership lessons
8. 35:30 Risk-taking and strategic decision-making

Answers

## Questions about this video

What is the main theme of the video?

The video focuses on how Iryna Horova transforms perceived chaos into structured growth within the creative and music industry, emphasizing courage, talent, and strategic business development.

How did business school influence Iryna Horova's approach?

Business school (KMBS) provided Iryna with frameworks and strategies that helped her see her business more structurally, enabling her to move from chaos to scalable systems.

What role does personal branding play according to the video?

Personal branding is highlighted as essential for visibility and influence, helping artists and entrepreneurs communicate their value and grow their presence in the market.

## Full Transcript — Download SRT & Markdown

00:00

Speaker A

I’m ready for you to take me apart here. Ira says, people go, listen, it won't always be like this.

00:06

Speaker A

No, not always. I can't go out before 10, and there are 7,000 people here at the Sports Palace.

00:14

Speaker A

Yes, I think one of the bravest decisions we all need to make is the courage to be ourselves.

00:21

Speaker A

Sometimes we think about ourselves that I've been asked one thing, but people see something else.

00:28

Speaker A

The question is: who is right? I am sure, we are more right. Well, we aren't all perfect, are we?

00:34

Speaker A

What helps you to hear yourself? That’s a great question. Now I am really thinking that talent or systems—phui.

00:42

Speaker A

And here I disagree. I don't have time to read books. Meaning we, not I, looking at the profile, I can tell what can be done.

00:48

Speaker A

There is one single way, yes, only one. Which one? Greetings. Today, my guest is someone I've known for a very long time, but on the other hand, I wanted to meet because the topic of talent in Irina's eyes, I think, unfolds in a slightly

01:04

Speaker A

different way than it does in mine. And I would like to finally meet and talk it over. We didn't prepare separately, didn't talk through how this would go, so as not to spoil our conversation today and not ruin the surprise. Well,

01:20

Speaker A

at least for us. Well, I hope for our viewers as well. The team chose really well; I mean, I definitely couldn't have done better. Uh, Iryna Horova, founder and CEO of the music label POMITNI, yes, co-founder of a talent development

01:36

Speaker A

platform based on it, and a woman who was able to see a system where others see only creative chaos.

01:43

Speaker A

Cool. You've traveled a path from the banking sector. I remember that from our first meeting, to creating one of the most successful music labels in the country, uh, the division of a large business, a complete rebranding of the company, and

01:59

Speaker A

today, a person who is building a new history of the Ukrainian music market. Is that all correct, Ira?

02:05

Speaker A

It's all correct. We could add more and more, but let's stop there. I, I never told you about this, but I want to share what I remember from our first meeting that surprised me. Or rather, it was at KMBS, right: we went outside,

02:22

Speaker A

you told me that you supposedly had chaos in the company, and then in about 5 minutes, maybe 10, you described that chaos very structurally. And I had a question, I didn't say it back then. I thought, it's strange, what does she

02:37

Speaker A

want from me? Well, she has everything in her head, at least very structured. And then I thought that, well, that's how life goes—the most structured people often think there's chaos around them, even when they find themselves in situations that are truly hard to

02:53

Speaker A

structure. And what do you remember from back then, that—was what was happening really chaotic and unstructured, in your opinion? Oh, I remember, it must have been six or seven years ago, I think. Or maybe longer. I was just going through

03:14

Speaker A

training at KMBS at the time, and for me, everything I was getting there was, well, kind of new, but then again, not really. And the main thing was that in business school, they didn't know how to approach me, because my business

03:31

Speaker A

wasn't something they usually worked with. And so, I wanted to be this perfect person, because I had people in my group with big, structural businesses, it seemed to me. I kept thinking, "My God, I'm at the bottom of the list when

03:51

Speaker A

it comes to structure; I need to fix something, find some value for this client, deadlines—all those new words I picked up there." And I went to everyone with that request, just like I did to you; I went around asking what I

04:09

Speaker A

needed to improve, what wasn't working. I had a different understanding of the client. I had a production company and another company that handled creative work. There was also a store. Yes, yes, yes. Everything I had before KMBS, I

04:26

Speaker A

thought was structured, as if I knew everything and had a group of companies. But when I came to business school, I realized that, well, I had a company, but definitely not a group of companies. I wanted to scale. I set myself a

04:42

Speaker A

goal back then that I had to build the company so that it could be bought.

04:48

Speaker A

That was the main task. Back then, I realized that everything was resting on me and my partner. And so the people around me, who worked with us, they weren't exactly in chaos, but they depended entirely on our decisions.

05:03

Speaker A

They perhaps didn't make decisions themselves; they had no strategy, and we weren't doing strategy. So, I saw chaos in the fact that I didn't see a stable future. And, of course, I tell everyone that KMBS is a really great

05:20

Speaker A

experience because I received ZIP files. Back then, I didn't fully grasp them, but I'm still unpacking them today. And that is very a download into the head that provides this structure.

05:33

Speaker A

Yes, I then Oh, right. Uh-huh. Here is the strategy, here is this process. Here is the client, I understand how to approach them. So, this is a very cool experience. And then, by unpacking the files, you learn something new.

05:48

Speaker A

By the way, I heard about you, and it resonated with me—I didn't make it up, but it resonated—that when you talk to Irina, there's this strange feeling that, on one hand, you sense a desire to structure, but on the other hand,

06:02

Speaker A

there is a realization that this is, I don't know, a goddess of chaos, simply a person who creates it. And it was precisely when, well, it finally gave me a little understanding of what is happening, when I saw the results of

06:15

Speaker A

the Gallup test. Uh-huh. Yes. And these top five—Arranger, Strategic, Individualization, Communication, Significance—they are, as it were, two dimensions, two Irinas.

06:30

Speaker A

Uh, what is certain is that it's about speed. On one hand, this Arranger, these are people who thrive in a dynamic environment, when you want to keep everything within arm's reach.

06:47

Speaker A

That's what you're saying, about the dependence, and plus the second one, Strategic. And the brain works in turbo mode, fixing on new opportunities. So for most normal people—well, there are no normal people, but still—it's impossible to work at such a speed. But

07:01

Speaker A

, well, it seems, at least according to the test—we will discuss this—that this desire to organize a chaotic space is your first or second talent. So it's just inherent. I don't know, is it from childhood?

07:16

Speaker A

I don't know. Uh, it seems to me that a person is constantly discovering things within themselves and, with experience, acquires very different areas of expertise. My dad is a scientist, and my mom, uh, she worked at the Ministry

07:30

Speaker A

of Economy a long time ago and then at the Securities Commission, but she is such a free spirit. It seems to me that I successfully combined and took the best from my dad and my mom. That's why, on one hand, I like to structure;

07:47

Speaker A

everyone in my company knows that I have Notes, spreadsheets, Excels. Moreover, if in an Excel file, God forbid, this top row is, well, you know, when it wraps and a few words disappear, it really triggers me. I

08:02

Speaker A

won't finish a financial table if everything isn't perfect. Uh-huh. But I have a chaotic—I think it's not chaotic, but a desire to grasp the ungraspable. I want to be successful and thriving in business. And I want to create; here I want to paint, here I

08:23

Speaker A

want to read, and I want to play chess, and do gymnastics, and yoga. And it's always not enough for me.

08:30

Speaker A

By the way, if you look at the profile, significance is fifth. Uh-huh. Meaning the importance of being visible, noticeable.

08:38

Speaker A

Noticeable, by the way. Yes, noticeable. But on the other hand, achievement is seventh, or being an achiever and an idea generator is eighth. So, a bunch of all kinds of ideas. They combine in my head in a strange way. They can be

08:54

Speaker A

absolutely opposite things. Yes, so chaos is a natural environment, while constantly wanting to structure and be noticeable, while also influencing a mass of people. Well, perhaps through quality, among other things. So it's interesting, and in communication, you constantly have to

09:11

Speaker A

put yourself out there. There it is. But you said that you weren't always in communication, well, communicative, because you wouldn't say tha

09:21

Speaker A

That confidence in communication, it was felt, well, at least all the time we've known each other, it was like, when Ira speaks, people just listen. It wasn't always like that.

09:31

Speaker A

No, not always. And do you know what I realized over time? Well, I always understood that it's so nice when people talk about you and such cool things can be heard while you just stay silent. I'm ready for you to take me

09:45

Speaker A

apart here. But in reality, I think that in childhood, communicative skills and all these abilities were actually embedded in me. I was constantly in the front row in kindergarten. Then in the yard, I, well, I don't know, there were bunnies,

10:05

Speaker A

but I was the main bunny or the snowflake. So, in the front row of whatever events there were. Because I was interested and, perhaps, it was important to be at the front.

10:17

Speaker A

Well, leading roles. Well, leading roles, yes. Yes, leading roles. And then in the yard, I was always the ringleader; I had tons of friends, but boys, because dolls didn't interest me at all. Cops and robbers, games around the garages—it was more

10:38

Speaker A

about the boys because I was interested in that active activity, the dynamics. And like, it's cool that the guys would take me into their group. So, I just liked that more.

10:52

Speaker A

Uh-huh. But then, when I went to school , maybe in the fourth or fifth grade, my importance and desire to be friends with older girls, and even then, boys in some groups, maybe caused some kind of jealousy or something in my peers,

11:14

Speaker A

my classmates, when it reached a level where envy started around me, yes, things like that.

11:23

Speaker A

Well, I didn't analyze it as jealousy back then, I didn't know what it was, but the bullying started. So it was very difficult for me, and on top of that, my nature was such that I couldn't share it with anyone or tell

11:33

Speaker A

my mom or dad that I was having this problem, because I was, well, kind of ashamed.

11:37

Speaker A

Uh-huh. Uh-huh. And that continued in the next school. Because, I don't know why, you don't really analyze it, but in principle, with children, maybe it's expectations, maybe boys, to flirt, they'll lift a skirt, or pull a ponytail, or show some

11:56

Speaker A

other displays of this masculinity toward girls. And if you submit to them , then it's like they won't bother you.

12:06

Speaker A

Or if you're a wallflower, or I don't know. But it didn't work for me. I tried, well, I tried to joke it off, tried to be friends with them too, but all the same, well, it wasn't the same level of

12:18

Speaker A

bullying, but I still didn't feel the way I wanted to feel, in a leading role.

12:23

Speaker A

Yeah. And that affected me so much as a person who wants to be out in front.

12:31

Speaker A

And we can be out in front when we express our thoughts, when we inspire others. And this complex continued— the fear of public speaking, the fear of speaking up, the fear of stating my opinion because you'll be judged. It's

12:48

Speaker A

strange, but it continued in the banking sector, even when I had 700 people reporting to me.

12:55

Speaker A

Uh-huh. Well, like, I was in charge of installment plans. When I was working on loans and communicating one-on-one with a client, everything was fine. But as soon as there was a third person, or more, communication is a natural

13:07

Speaker A

process, right, when it’s one-on-one, yeah? Well, you understand the person, you understand that you are providing some kind of service for them and they are, in a way, dependent on you. Uh-huh .

13:19

Speaker A

But when you go out and report to people, or, conversely, tell them that they are doing something wrong, or their report is imperfect, or things are going poorly, and you have directors from all over Ukraine sitting in front of you, and you're just this

13:36

Speaker A

little person, and that fear, that little girl is sitting there right over your head, saying that you don't know everything, and they might say, "You're wrong." For me, it was a nightmare.

13:50

Speaker A

Just a really intense one. I mean, I was actually afraid when my boss, she was the chair of the board and I was her deputy.

13:58

Speaker A

Uh-huh. She would go out, and I’d have to talk to someone. And when she would leave, I’d get hot flashes.

14:05

Speaker A

On one hand, there was a desire to be in a leading role, but on the other hand, it was terrifying. And that's where my role as a "gray eminence" came from, when you whisper the right things to someone and they make them happen.

14:19

Speaker A

That was later implemented with artists . I had a long journey after that. I was very good at seeing things from the outside. I could tell a person everything, but speaking to an audience like this was very difficult for me.

14:33

Speaker A

And I also have this ability for self-analysis. Meaning I analyze my actions, I see myself, and I try my best to see myself accurately from the perspective others see me. I listen and work on myself. And at some point, I

14:48

Speaker A

decided that, well, this is holding me back. Uh-huh. Because I can no longer achieve the goals I want through other people.

14:59

Speaker A

There was a business school, then, I think, there was the SEO Club. I went there, and there was a vetting process at the beginning too. " God, why do you even need this business ?""You're in show business, you're

15:14

Speaker A

already doing well." I think, "God, why is it like that?" By the time I proved that we are also a business, that we have business processes, that it's not just about concerts and dancing, that you need to structure and work, it took

15:28

Speaker A

time. And when I gave that speech, everyone realized that I was someone to be reckoned with.

15:35

Speaker A

Yes, it seems there was a fairly long period of some external pressure, right ?

15:40

Speaker A

Well, external pressure in various forms. The pressure of having this double trouble. I'm a woman in a business where there are still almost no women.

15:51

Speaker A

Well, in terms of label heads and production centers, because it's constant negotiation, constant promotion, and cooperation with sometimes very strange people. And it's such exhausting work. There are many managers, but few leaders.

16:06

Speaker A

Uh-huh. Plus, in the minds of people, maybe even five years ago, the understanding that the music industry is an industry, that there is money here, that there are processes, that there is a huge structure overall, many players, that we influence public

16:25

Speaker A

opinion, that we influence brands when we work with them and do advertising. Well, that's, of course, a fail. Uh-huh .

16:34

Speaker A

It was very difficult to convey that. And when you come and say, "I work with artists," it was as if society trivialized it, like: "Oh, if I work with oil and gas, oh, well that's serious; if I'm a lawyer, wow.""If I'm

16:48

Speaker A

a politician, wow; if I work with artists, well, that's just okay." And I had to convey that. And all of this was happening in my garden, and when I was first asked to give a speech, I naturally said, "No, absolutely not."

17:04

Speaker A

But then it just so happened that they were friends. They said, "You have a story to tell, you need to say something, you need to convey that your industry is truly vast, that you work, that you're in the processes." And I

17:16

Speaker A

thought I'd try to overcome myself physically—not by going to see psychologists and working on myself, because I'm my own psychologist. That's what I believe—to go out and perform, to take that step into the abyss, into the void, and see what would happen to

17:33

Speaker A

me. Well, what happened to me was, I almost, there...I nearly fainted; I felt so dizzy. The girl doing my makeup said, "You can stop if you're worried; you're red, I literally can't even put makeup on you." Uh-huh.

17:51

Speaker A

The stress was horrible. And that was before the Young Business Club. It was like this community, right, and there were 350 people or so there. I thought, "God, I can't even go out in front of ten people, and here there are 350."

18:08

Speaker A

And then I went out, sat in the hall for a bit, soaked up the energy, and saw that they weren't mean.

18:16

Speaker A

Uh-huh. That they wouldn't judge, that they would watch with genuine interest. So I went out, gave the speech, and it went just perfectly.

18:23

Speaker A

Uh-huh. And they actually applauded. Then there were tons of requests. And the second or third speech was the mega-training back then, Pashevich, with 7,000 people at the Palace of Sports.

18:35

Speaker A

So, I really pushed myself, guided myself through those tough speaking engagements. And now I have plenty of them. It's interesting because, well, if you look at your profile and what you talk about, it was there in childhood. And there it is:

18:53

Speaker A

communication, significance, that desire for new connections. It was there in childhood, and then it was similar. Well, there was a period that, I don't know, tried to push you away from it, and you sort of stepped out of

19:06

Speaker A

it, but then your nature took over, though still through overcoming, through courage, right? Well, we all go through some difficult things like that .

19:17

Speaker A

Well, yeah. No, well, I had a team. That's for sure, friends. Not everyone needs this. It's not for everyone, no.

19:22

Speaker A

But I think that if we believe, like having to deal with bullying at school, to prepare for this. Maybe they prepared you. Well, look, I believe that absolutely everything we acquire in life should become our strength, like bad marriages, some bullying, some

19:44

Speaker A

challenges, right, if we don't focus on it as negativity. negatives, saying: "Okay, we'll get through it, we'll move on." The main thing is how I process it. Everyone has their own path. But you know, there are , well, there are different strategies.

20:04

Speaker A

There is the avoidance strategy, and there is the strategy where we, well, start doing something because we were provoked or something like that. Yeah.

20:16

Speaker A

So today, how do you realize that you really want this? Yes, that this decision is yours, and not inspired by friends, colleagues, or those we study or work with. How do you realize, "this is mine." And here I will fight, here I

20:30

Speaker A

will move forward and am ready to overcome. Well, first of all, I don't have authorities in the sense of people I follow or repeat after. I have a million people, even children.

20:46

Speaker A

Children are the best motivator for me because a motivator or an example? If sometimes an example, sometimes a motivator in something.

20:55

Speaker A

Uh-huh. Sometimes it's my team. Uh-huh. And I constantly, even if I'm reading a book, I'll take two or three examples from it, and I'm like: "Aha, I read this, not bad, I'll take it." I mean, as humans, we should keep an open mind

21:15

Speaker A

so that we can take many valuable tips or valuable examples. Or sometimes you just watch a YouTube channel and you're like: "Oh my God, he said: 'Okay, cool, I'll take that for myself.'" Uh, so you can't just follow someone,

21:32

Speaker A

because people are, well, well, and how do you differentiate, you know, you look: "Oh, what a cool idea." And then time passes, and you think: "Well, that's nonsense." So how do you understand, do you have any, I don't

21:46

Speaker A

know, algorithm or some, I don't know, process that helps you hear yourself and distinguish it. There's a ton of stuff on YouTube, and these are, well, really cool, smart people. But perhaps there is something, I think you need to understand your own

22:01

Speaker A

path, understand yourself. And what helps? Maybe there's some, someone goes for a walk, someone talks to someone, someone isolates themselves .

22:10

Speaker A

That's a great question. I'm just now thinking that, uh, well, we're all not perfect. I can't say that I'm managing to follow some path where I've achieved so much that I can just sit like Elon Musk, smoke weed, and talk about how I

22:29

Speaker A

got here. He just can't sit and calm down. I don't know. I feel like we are working on our strategy at the company.

22:38

Speaker A

Uh-huh. Wait, what don't I know? I am working on my own strategy. For four years now, I've had something that looks a bit like lungs. On one side, everything I want to achieve in my personal life, and on the other, Iryna

22:57

Speaker A

Horova as a personal brand—public, connected to business, society, and various projects. No, it overlaps with the company, but it's more about what I , as an individual, want to leave behind. Is it like a personal strategic session, or what is it, what does it look like?

23:14

Speaker A

Yes, yes, at first I did it myself. I did it alone at first, because my thoughts flow best when I find time to be alone. It's important to find the time. I sit down and think: "Okay, what do I want?" Every person finds their

23:30

Speaker A

own way to better understand themselves and not get lost amidst external expectations. Personally, I regularly consult various specialists, including psychotherapists. And for me personally , the quality and reliability of the specialist are important. Therapy doesn't give us ready-made answers or

23:50

Speaker A

decide for us, but it helps remove the excess noise, better understand ourselves and our values, and make decisions not out of fear of disappointing someone, but with the understanding: "This is truly my choice ." Particularly through experiments, reflection, and a better understanding

24:08

Speaker A

of one's own emotions. Rozmova is a space for working with psychologists. From my own experience and scientific research, I know two things. First, in almost any situation, we can find the resource within ourselves and become happier under any circumstances. Second

24:29

Speaker A

, it is much easier to do this with the help of a professional and attentive specialist. With the promo code "Sergiy ," you will get a 20%discount on your first session. Detailed information is available via the link in the video

24:42

Speaker A

description. Well, for example, spending time with my children is super important to me. I even set that as a goal, because when your goals are defined, you understand it, and the whole universe focuses on what you’ve written down. Meaning you’ve

25:01

Speaker A

identified what your priorities are. It’s the kids, essential communication, because they are already adults and Andriy is studying in Britain. Natasha lived in Poland for a long time. Thank God she has already returned to Ukraine with her husband. I

25:17

Speaker A

am just super happy. And with her husband. Well, she’s already grown up. My daughter.

25:24

Speaker A

My daughter. Damn, I realized I didn't check what year she was born. But fine, let it go.

25:31

Speaker A

Something doesn't add up for me, Vira. Oh well. There. Yes, everyone says that. Oh, because I don't like talking to young people and soaking up that energy.

25:41

Speaker A

Anyway. No, she is just super mature. And I, when I was traveling abroad, I went to Poland, then to Britain, and then we met up with the kids somewhere.

25:52

Speaker A

So for me, it's super important, because this connection fuels me. Then I have English, then time for myself, then sports, and then there was a super goal: my brother. I mean, these are the kind of things to read, for example.

26:08

Speaker A

It's a real problem, a major problem, that I don't have time to read books. I mean, looking at your profile, I can tell you what can be done.

26:17

Speaker A

There is only one way. Only one. Which is putting it in the calendar. Yes, that’s exactly it.

26:24

Speaker A

Otherwise, well, with this profile, it's really the profile of a person who wants to change and create a lot of things, and not just create, but to do it in a very dynamic environment. I think you've found your creative chaos.

26:40

Speaker A

It’s yours. The girls here who put things in my schedule. Then I say, "What did you schedule for me? This is too much. I can't get anything done." I remove things, and then I say, "Put them back.

26:49

Speaker A

" Then they...well, there is that. And on the other hand, these are important moments for me, that I must have social activity, I need influence, it's right there in the graph, and why?

27:05

Speaker A

Well, for you, it's number one. It's air for you; it's breathing. Yes. Exactly. Uh, time for, you know, SEO or some communities through which I find something new.

27:19

Speaker A

Those are projects about professional growth. I mean, I write them down for myself, and now it has grown into OKRs that we work through with the team. And I set three or four for the year and map them out. For the team, for...

27:36

Speaker A

Yes, because I have a team of five people working with me now, PR, SMM, and...

27:42

Speaker A

Is this purely for a personal story? Well, they are for the brand too; we are...yes, because I am the brand, and the brand is me, we are moving away, trying to separate that. Is it working?

27:53

Speaker A

It's a personal brand. It's, like... No, I mean a personal brand and a company.

27:59

Speaker A

Because we do a lot together. Microsoft spends huge amounts of money, and not just Microsoft; a large number of companies allocate a separate budget for creating the personal brands of their employees.

28:12

Speaker A

By the way, that’s what we’re working on, and I think it’s very important. There are many faceless companies, and companies with only a CEO or owner. But we are really developing our teams. It is important to me that I am not the only one who is

28:28

Speaker A

everything in the company. So, we are actually making a course right now, a course about the music industry and how we operate in general. And for me— A course or a film, which one?

28:39

Speaker A

A course. A course. Yeah, a real course with, like, 10 modules. They wanted it to be just me, but I said that I don't do distribution, for example, and I don't do PR. It’s important to me that the people who create, yes, that

28:52

Speaker A

they also take part in this. Well, they always speak up and they share their input. And if you look at the company's social media, it’s always about the big team. About many people. And it’s important for people to feel they are

29:06

Speaker A

also a part of the change, a part of what we do. And if we go back to the test, the Gallup one, to what extent did you expect the results to be similar, or how true were they to you?

29:19

Speaker A

I was reading it and thinking, "God, I am so cool." Well, it aligns very well with what I’ve read about myself, but Gallup interestingly highlighted and revealed all these sides of me. I mean, it was pleasant. It wasn't like, "Oh my

29:40

Speaker A

God, I didn't expect that." It couldn't be like that. There wasn't anything that was unexpected to see. Well, we talked about it. The only thing is, it says I enter new companies super quickly and easily. And, uh, I said that

29:56

Speaker A

this was in the second five, this sixth one was charm, the desire to charm other people. Well, it seems to me that it’s just it has been corrected now. It was just so difficult for me to process all of

30:07

Speaker A

that. Uh-huh. And sometimes when you enter a new male-dominated, business-oriented environment that is very, uh, already closed, aggressive closed, well, the business there is already very big, then you need to enter in a way so that they understand that

30:30

Speaker A

it is possible, that these gender stories, you know, distorted, cultural ones, yes, that—and by the way, if you look at your experience as a scientist and public servant, yes, dad and mom.

30:47

Speaker A

And you did a ton of things, sports, right, like figure skating, even chess. You played chess?

30:54

Speaker A

Chess was my dad, figure skating and gymnastics were my mom. And you? But I was so involved in both.

31:02

Speaker A

But then, when I think I couldn't keep up with school, I had to choose. And, of course, mom thought I would choose gymnastics, but dad was such a leader, and I would just go to the forest with him while mom was cleaning. Well, of

31:21

Speaker A

course, I chose to follow my dad's path . I mean, I really loved that masculine energy.

31:26

Speaker A

I chose chess. And I even got some kind of chess rank. Oh, a youth one. I was winning. I had about five ranks.

31:37

Speaker A

The fourth one, I think—it wasn't the first, which is the best, just fourth, because I quit later, but for my dad, to make him happy, I picked chess.

31:48

Speaker A

So, but you chose economics, and if we asked today, okay, what do you do exactly? I would say, well, something in the economics of creative industries . I don't know if that's exactly what —I mean, it's not chess or figure

32:06

Speaker A

skating, it's about Well, chess gave me—I improved in math, learned to think logically and predictively. You like, think up a bunch of paths and moves ahead.

32:21

Speaker A

You assess the situation, you assess your, of course, opponent. You watch how they react, whether they understand , like a professional chess coach. I know.

32:31

Speaker A

Oh, well you know, that adds this logic , first of all, to communication, analysis, and calculating moves ahead.

32:41

Speaker A

And that's why, perhaps, math really went differently for me right away. And then economics, well, that was just— My dad said, "Can I suggest the biology faculty at Shevchenko University?" Yes, because he was a professor there, but they were like, just to be clear. No

33:00

Speaker A

one helped me on principle. I mean, they are super principled. And my dad immediately said, "You can go to the economics faculty, or biology." Well, biology and I are, well, just totally — Not your thing, right?

33:12

Speaker A

Yeah. So I chose economics. You felt that, right, that there is, like, this— Well, I hated chemistry. I mean, it was just complete nonsense to me, all that —you have to sit and study it very deeply. These are diver people, who

33:27

Speaker A

have to be focused on one subject, right? And I'm a surfer. I'm just skimming across everything. And that's why economics. Well, and then human interaction, right, for you. Yes, so, but economics is one side, and on the other side is this chemistry of human,

33:44

Speaker A

I don't know, souls and talents. And I really liked, well, liked, resonated with this phrase. I don't know if it's true, but I read that when you became a judge on Star Factory, you said that you weren't interested in the voice or

34:04

Speaker A

even a hit song, but the system around the artist's talent. Yes. What does that mean, exactly? How do you see a person with great potential, how do you determine that now? How does that relate to this system?

34:23

Speaker A

Well, it's such complex, uh, mathematics, how to spot a person who could potentially become an artist. And sometimes it's just luck, sometimes intuition, sometimes it's obvious, because you see a unique voice, or a unique look, or a unique delivery of

34:45

Speaker A

tracks. And at the Factory, they will be looking for people who write their own tracks, perform them themselves, and that's definitely something you can see. But the way the Factory is built, there’s me, and there’s Alan, Badoev—he’s a director, and he sees the aesthetics,

35:05

Speaker A

he sees the image, he also sees the personality, of course, but to me, he’s more of a visual person and very uh finely senses that energy, which he conveys through visual art to the, uh, listener, or to the one who sees what

35:25

Speaker A

they are creating, the viewer, because he is a director, and his music videos are very unique. And Vanya Kolomenko, who is a songwriter, who was an artist himself, who writes music— all the hits that are topping the charts right now are written or

35:46

Speaker A

co-written by him. And the three of us evaluate. My task is to evaluate, to give hints, or to see if the artist is capable of being a star. Because only talent is capable of being a star, right? I mean, being talented and being

36:03

Speaker A

a star, they are different things. They are very, very different. And I see, I'll explain the difference, because I see a lot right now of artists who are truly talented, who are emerging. Right now, there are already 17,000 artists in Ukraine who

36:18

Speaker A

this—this is a real figure. 17,000 artists. Yes, I have a company that Are they registered somewhere or what?

36:26

Speaker A

Well, it's a company that counts how many artists we have. I did the research. So these are figures confirmed only by this company, because we don't have state statistics, we don't have any other statistics. This these aren't the people who sing in

36:42

Speaker A

karaoke. No, no, no. These are the ones who have released more than three tracks on streaming platforms. they might disappear later, but still, that's an artist who records, right? And there is an artist, but they, for example, don't

37:00

Speaker A

know what needs to be done to actually become an artist. Because an artist isn't just someone who recorded a track , uploaded it to some platform, and that's it, I'm an artist. But it's a person who understands how to

37:14

Speaker A

distribute this music, how to promote it, how to release it, yes, this whole professional component, how to communicate, if you're already at some level, with brands that will come to you and offer collaboration, how to bring those brands into your

37:32

Speaker A

music video, how then it's not producers who should be doing all of this, It could be managers, it could be the team working with them. In any case, the artist must at least understand this, of course, because the artist is the

37:44

Speaker A

business. I want to convey that the artist is a business. And only this person can give tasks to other managers regarding what they want to get out of this business. So, if a manager comes along who just sees the potential of

38:04

Speaker A

this artist or wants to make money off them, and you don't know that you need to register copyrights, have contracts, or have an NDA if you're collaborating with someone. I mean, the same tools that exist in business—otherwise, you’ll either be used or deceived,

38:23

Speaker A

right? Understanding the basics, of course, and I want to instill this because even mid-level artists, if they don't know this, they come to a label, for example, and say: "Here is my music , do some magic." But the magic doesn't

38:42

Speaker A

happen. And they are indignant at the label, right? Because they don't know that, for instance, you need to film 20,000 TikToks now. Well, I’m speaking figuratively, that you need to allocate a budget to promote this music . You need to write not one track a

39:00

Speaker A

year, but 10 tracks a year, and at this stage, 90 percent of people who wanted to be artists already drop out; they don't want to anymore. I don't know, it's a business, like entrepreneurship courses, that's how it should be. Well,

39:17

Speaker A

if you don't want to do anything in the business, and you just hire a director and sit there saying, "Well, go ahead." And they say, "What's the strategy?

39:26

Speaker A

What, and overall, what is the product? What are we doing?" And not every entrepreneur becomes a businessman. So this is also a business. Therefore, of course, to succeed there, it's not just talent, it's also the talent for communication,

39:39

Speaker A

finding the right team, understanding where you're going and who you'll work with. I want to introduce a professional business culture, right, because we are a young industry, we have few managers, and we have few… forming right?

39:54

Speaker A

Yes, because, well, I also haven't been an artist for a long time, nor this, well, I was there until, I don't know, the 90s, right?

40:02

Speaker A

Yes. I know this industry a little bit, but back then it was quite, well, not rigid, but a clear division. These are artists, mostly women, and these are producers. And these handle this. But I agree, when back then the business model was

40:20

Speaker A

completely different. Well, they’re different, I think, but I agree that when an expert or artist knows the basics, is ready to work on them, and can reach a professional agreement even with a producer, because, in principle, I have a similar situation. Well,

40:38

Speaker A

regarding my project, I wanted to say, you are also an artist, and I suppose you have, well, no, no, "artist" in English. An artist is not an artist, it's generally, yes, someone who creates something. So you also have a producer whom you hire

40:54

Speaker A

as a manager, for example, for this shoot? Well, for me it’s not like that. Fortunately, thank God and the heavens. I have it a little differently . I have two Leras.

41:04

Speaker A

Yes. Well, Lera Brodyna, with whom we are doing Khyst. That’s a big project, right? And Lera, who is the producer of this channel. They are the ones who tell me what needs to be done.

41:13

Speaker A

But you hired them because you know what you want to achieve. I didn't hire them. We are working in a partnership. I have a slightly different approach. I think it’s impossible for experts in Ukraine to hire such people. I’ve tried, they

41:26

Speaker A

aren't out there. Or it would be very they aren't interested in being hired; they are, so to speak, people on a different level. But I understand, now that I’ve listened to you, I realize that if we had met and started talking

41:40

Speaker A

10 years ago, I don’t think we would have reached an agreement because I didn't understand certain things: why I need to listen, where I need to listen, and where I should still insist on my own way. I think that when there is no

41:55

Speaker A

base, it is very difficult to work with professionals because you simply don't understand, you don't understand. And the term " producer" just hangs in the air for us, implying that whoever works with an artist is a producer. But in principle,

42:11

Speaker A

that’s a manager. A manager can be someone who leads the project. A manager who just comes to a shoot, helps create, right. Yes. creates a result. And depending on how well the artist understands what they need, how to calculate their success, what the

42:31

Speaker A

person you collaborate with depends on, whether you bring results or are productive, how many releases you need to make, just like you. You don't need to record just one podcast or program a year; there is a certain dynamic. I

42:47

Speaker A

don't know, we were talking about personal brands two or three years ago, yes. Do you remember? And well, back then I had...I’ve spent my whole life in business, right, and I’m used to controlling and managing. And now, when

43:00

Speaker A

there are two Leras and they tell me what needs to be done, I am so happy about it because I know they know much better than I do. And this means I simply don't have to think about those

43:12

Speaker A

issues. And that is maturity; you have already gone through some of this, I think.

43:16

Speaker A

Well, yes, yes, yes. You've been down that road, you've suffered, and you understand that you should go to professionals that the market talks about, or you’ve evaluated them somehow and placed your trust in them.

43:27

Speaker A

And that is what this collaboration is, and it’s the same ideal that should exist between a manager and an artist, because if you aren't trusted, the artist needs to suffer a little bit , sometimes they need to suffer.

43:37

Speaker A

Sometimes they come to you mature because they have been working with others or working some other job where they’ve had that sense of structure instilled in them or something similar.

43:52

Speaker A

And then you get the highest efficiency , because without the artist's talent and without management, it is very difficult to achieve very high results.

44:02

Speaker A

Even if you shot to fame on your own— well, it happens that the stars might align for you, yes— you have to maintain it afterward, because there is that rapid rise and then the fall.

44:16

Speaker A

Yes, so it's very similar. Why was I interested in this topic and why did I want to talk about it?

44:22

Speaker A

Because, well, I have been working in talent development for 10-12 years. Well, primarily in the business environment, this Gallup CliftonStrengths method isn't about the creative industry, it’s about maximizing human potential. And this question of what is more important,

44:38

Speaker A

talent or hard work, it constantly comes up—can you learn talent, or can you get by without hard work? They say, "Listen, you can't beat talent"— that’s a lie, unfortunately, right?

44:49

Speaker A

Even if the talent is outstanding, it requires work. And the amount of work is determined by the level of ambition.

44:58

Speaker A

But if there is no talent, well, there is no point. Well, there are unlikely to be outstanding results. So, both are important. Essentially, I understand that in the creative industry, it’s the same situation, right, and there is no fundamental difference?

45:11

Speaker A

I think there isn't. These are universal, yes, there isn't. I think there isn't. And there must be a balance here. I am here , you know, well, what is talent? Of course, there must be a foundation, but talent can be more about unique singing

45:27

Speaker A

or unique charisma—well, of course, without an ear or a voice, it’s impossible to be a singing artist, but then you could, I don't know, succeed through other means.

45:39

Speaker A

But it is important that we understand what this person's talent actually is. Well, if you take Strengths-based psychology, then talent is defined as natural patterns of thinking, feeling, and behaving. So, certain natural inclinations or traits that we can put

45:56

Speaker A

to productive use. If you, uh, translate that into the creative industry, those are certain capabilities, these natural inclinations that can be, well, converted, I don't know, turned into success with an audience. I suppose so.

46:12

Speaker A

It could be a voice, it could be a certain combination, or appearance. I think there has to be a specific set.

46:18

Speaker A

It's always unique, it can't, I don't think, be digitized, but it must be amplified. I mean, every artist is unique in their own mix; some just have a voice, some have a voice plus they write music, some have a

46:33

Speaker A

voice, write music, and write lyrics. Completely self-sufficient. Some dance, some don't dance. Some play instruments , some don't. So, these are different talents. And a manager's job is to see these talents, develop them, amplify them, and look for new ones. Because

46:54

Speaker A

for me, a pop artist—let's talk about what I work with most—should ideally know how to do everything, because when they step onto a huge stage, they must know how to communicate, how to dance or carry themselves so they don't just

47:12

Speaker A

stand there, meaning their body should also interact with the audience, and of course, sing, because if it's lip-syncing...well, that used to happen . Well, those 90s you're mentioning, everything there was built on lip-syncing, and the girl was, well,

47:32

Speaker A

just there for her looks. That's why I'm saying there are different options. Well, they existed, but that doesn't fly anymore. Right now , honestly, I feel like a mess. Well, different.

47:45

Speaker A

Is it possible that something like a human clone could emerge without real artists? Well, in Korea, that's already a thing.

47:52

Speaker A

And they appear on screens, someone is singing, but that's, well, for one thing, they have. I find it hard to imagine that being possible in Ukraine because we're so...we don't have idols like that.

48:08

Speaker A

Uh-huh. Idols, like they do. That's why we still prefer real, live interaction. Maybe that will change, we don't know where we're heading. But right now, everyone is trying to somehow block AI and music streaming platforms. And everything else. But yes

48:23

Speaker A

, well, we just don't know what will happen. And if we go back to people, what do you think is the main mistake music managers make when selecting artists?

48:34

Speaker A

Maybe there is such a thing. Well, there isn't really a "selection" process for finding artists right now.

48:39

Speaker A

Working, searching, working with artists. There can be many mistakes. You let's call managers A&Rs now, so we're speaking professionally. This is an A&R , repertoire, those who search for artists and sometimes repertoire for artists, songs, they match them

48:59

Speaker A

together. So these are people who understand genres and understand artists. In an ideal world, this is built on statistics, on growth, well, in other words, on analytics. And when you see an artist's growth and you try to sign them somehow, because it's also

49:20

Speaker A

communication, artists of that level are already somewhere, they're under contract, you either wait for the contract to expire, uh, or you start communicating with them somehow. So there can be different situations here, but this manager's task is to find the best artist to sign

49:41

Speaker A

to the label based on the metrics. There are even such artists who are just starting, those who have already achieved something, and superstars. And you try: there are superstars who, for example, are independent, and you dream of signing them and you wait, uh, for

49:57

Speaker A

the right moment. Or there are those who just started there, through TikTok, through something, and you think: "Oh, they're cool, they're gaining an audience well, I'm going to sign them." But despite all this, there's a mistake that it was just a quick boost.

50:15

Speaker A

Uh-huh. And something took off, one or two tracks, and then this artist, as a person, just says: "Well, I don't want to collaborate any further." So it's also an analysis of the person, an undervaluation of the person, focusing

50:28

Speaker A

only on the metrics. Yes, there is an undervaluation of the material. Well, you think it's cool material, but it doesn't resonate with people. Well, that material, the artist's songs.

50:42

Speaker A

Mainly songs, because everything starts with a track. It happens that a person is difficult and it's very hard to communicate with them and you, well yes , you don't find common ground. Are there instances where there are wrong

50:57

Speaker A

expectations of the artist from the label or the label from the artist? Well, mostly from the artist to the label, because there is an impression that artists, upon coming to a label, expect something so fantastic. And a label, which is like in the movies,

51:14

Speaker A

well, just like in the movies, they just showed up. But, well, if we take it like the movies and study it, then there is not a free minute. There, if a label invests, for example, then they invest in vocals, in rehearsals, in dancing,

51:29

Speaker A

in image, in style, in everything. And then this artist works off all that invested money for a long time. It doesn't happen that you invest and the artist starts earning immediately. That doesn't work for us right now. In

51:43

Speaker A

principle, there are few production centers that invest, because of the war ; before the war, that existed. And we were just the kind of production center that invested. Now we are a service company and we constantly, so the artist has to invest themselves,

51:56

Speaker A

right? And we provide him with knowledge. Uh, of course, our catalog is huge. This means our percentages from distributors are small. And it's access to playlists, knowledge, opportunities, to the essence—essentially, you scale the talent's potential.

52:15

Speaker A

Yes, if the artist is super great and we see they have good results, we can provide an advance, but we don't take responsibility for their career or the content of their tracks.

52:29

Speaker A

Well, so you changed your strategy, right? But look, to offer a system to someone, you have to have a refined, effective system inside. You once said in an interview that people are the main—and this is interesting to me as

52:45

Speaker A

a management teacher—that people are the main underestimated reserve, the company's potential. The employees, yes , and not just them, but their families too—those influencers who talk about the company. What does that mean to you ? That was in an interview where I

53:03

Speaker A

spoke about the importance of people in the company, valuing and supporting the team—not using them, but creating a space where they can create something more, even beyond what they expected from themselves. And a person in a space of

53:23

Speaker A

trust, tolerance, and acceptance of any unique characteristic as the norm, rather than judgment, motivates them to give more. I mean, sometimes it seems to me that we have a very soft management style, but, well, people tell me that's not quite right. But,

53:46

Speaker A

well, even so, compared to others, I think that people aren't afraid to speak their minds.

53:54

Speaker A

That's psychological safety. I hope that's how it is. Ah, well yes, I mean It's strange, what you just said is essentially the same story as with the artists. You create conditions for the artists to grow. To create conditions

54:09

Speaker A

for artists to grow, you need to create conditions for employees to grow. Yes. And then they will transmit this culture and these conditions.

54:19

Speaker A

Well, it's important to me that I hear people saying we have a great space, a great team, well-selected people, that they have values, and they are all " culture-concerned." Uh, well, it's when they aren't—yes, that's what we call

54:39

Speaker A

it, because they care about what happens in the country's cultural space . They aren't indifferent to what's going on.

54:47

Speaker A

Yes, and that is one of our values. That's why we care about what happens with the artists. So, for us, an artist is not a tool, but part of our success, part of our team. Because if our artists aren't successful, or we don't

55:03

Speaker A

help them, it affects our brand. If you analyze Ukrainian labels, there are probably stronger ones in terms of their catalog and number of artists, because we entered the systematic service business around mid-to-late '23 when we started rebuilding our model.

55:26

Speaker A

So there are labels that have had this for a long time. They have been building up their catalogs. But what sets us apart is that we are public, we always speak our minds, because we collaborate openly and very publicly—

55:39

Speaker A

not just through artists, but as a label with Azov, and I am an ambassador for Strum fundraising. And we have a project where we create cool things and then raise money for the needs of small brigades that are unnoticed because

55:58

Speaker A

there are the big ones. We are constantly visible, working with the invisible, and we try to make them visible. We organize various meetups, like watching films, inviting everyone, of course, for free to watch valuable things, right?

56:17

Speaker A

Yes, also film screenings, some performances, lectures. So we try to be more than just a label, to be a cultural cultural influence.

56:28

Speaker A

Great. And you mentioned that people aren't afraid to speak up. For people not to be afraid to speak, they need to understand that mistakes—to a certain extent, of course—are normal. How do you feel about your own mistakes and

56:41

Speaker A

the mistakes of others? Is it easy for you to admit when you are wrong, right?

56:45

Speaker A

How is it for you? It seems to me that for Ukraine right now, this is a critically important question. Well, and for business in general. In management, this is called psychological safety. One of the key tools.

56:56

Speaker A

It's difficult for me to admit mistakes in my personal life. It's just terrible , well, like in family settings, let's put it that way.

57:07

Speaker A

But in the company, it's easier, because I don't know why—a psychologist could explain it better— perhaps it's the responsibility I have toward people. I can say that I wasn't right here, but I am very often right.

57:24

Speaker A

Let's put it that way. We don't have referees in the company, so I don't know; maybe I went overboard sometimes, or maybe I said it should be this way and not that way. But, for example, I love implementing new things; we had

57:39

Speaker A

Asana, and before that, we had other tools. Now we work with Notion, and I admitted that I exhausted everyone with these changes, but the team is now working in Notion, and everyone says— and this is not an ad—everyone says

57:58

Speaker A

that it's very convenient because of the beautiful interface, because it's intuitive, because it just clicked. But after making mistakes with the previous ones, my assistant and I tried for about three months.

58:16

Speaker A

Then we hired a professional who set it all up for us and explained how to use it. And then we worked it out. Later, we had a project like a 360-degree review. But since I had taken a course,

58:29

Speaker A

I thought: "Why pay anyone money? I can teach everyone how to use it." And that was a terrible experience because everyone started an internal investigation into who wrote what, and then found out who wrote what. And then , well, it was a really, really bad

58:49

Speaker A

case, after which I apologized, said it wouldn't happen again, and we hired a professional team to do it all for us.

58:57

Speaker A

So, I admit to mistakes like that, or if I go overboard with my feedback on something, I can say, sorry, I was...

59:09

Speaker A

well, wrong. Or, for example, I know for sure that I have a gap, that I don't know how to give praise at all. I mean, you know, when there’s a team, and you go, "You’re great." No, no, no. That’s something in me, somewhere

59:25

Speaker A

, because there is no one to praise me, as there is no one above me. And I focus on the negatives. So, for example , the team has worked hard, done everything, and I say, "Well, great, but blah-blah-blah-blah-blah-blah-blah.

59:39

Speaker A

" And that negative is something someone brings up to me in a peer-to-peer session, saying, "Oh my God, forgive me, please, I understand your values, but do you understand me, because this is deep inside me.""You remind me sometimes." And there are

59:56

Speaker A

people who tell me, "Praise this person , praise that person, don't forget." Well, and that helps me. But I believe in creating an environment that changes , yes, because it's important to hear and correct it, rather than getting

60:09

Speaker A

triggered. Well, and sometimes I get angry with the team when I see their potential, that we could be stronger, we could be better. Sometimes I have the impression that I’m running ahead , pulling everyone along and saying, "

60:24

Speaker A

Come on, come on." I so want them to run out in front and say, "Irina, come on, keep pushing." But, well, that's about children. Is raising a child similar to developing an artist?

60:37

Speaker A

I think so. Well, that’s interesting. I haven't structured it this way myself , but it's interesting that when I look at people, I accept—meaning, I'm no longer just me, I adopt the state that person is in and try to understand them

60:55

Speaker A

. Uh-huh. And that's why I feel like even when I'm arguing with someone, I try to understand why this person is behaving that way. In other words, I try to step into their shoes and understand what they need. I don't know how that state

61:10

Speaker A

works, it doesn't always happen. That’s one type of empathy. Yes, I think we’re all different. It’s important to understand what the person needs on one hand, but on the other, it’s important to understand what I can give. You also have to understand

61:23

Speaker A

yourself, what I’m capable of, what is authentic to me, and it’s not bad for the people around you to know and accept that.

61:31

Speaker A

I think, you know, and I’m thinking as I go, that people who give a lot of energy, like psychologists, producers, managers—because we have very difficult jobs. We can talk to the PR people and Irochka, the assistant, off-camera later. Well, it's

61:51

Speaker A

energy-draining work. And if you don't think about yourself, about how to recover, you won't be able to work well in this space. Because working with artists—and I work with top artists —you have to be on call 24/7.

62:11

Speaker A

Something is always going on, something happened, there’s a public event, or the artist is having a breakdown. You have to be a psychologist, you have to handle it, but if you’re just empathically holding their hand instead of solving the problem, it’ll be

62:26

Speaker A

difficult for you. I mean, you’ll burn out. Teams, well, there have to be teams. By the way, it’s not for nothing that they say burnout is an occupational hazard for helping professions.

62:37

Speaker A

And I’ve been in this for 18 years. So that balance, I suppose—I’m with you, but there’s still me, and you have to hold that line somehow. By the way, on this topic, you share ideas and advice on Instagram, and what caught my

62:55

Speaker A

eye and really engaged me was that scale requires courage. I generally think that we Ukrainians need to...

63:03

Speaker A

Read some good stuff on Instagram. That’s so nice, I’ve already forgotten what I wrote.

63:06

Speaker A

We need, we need to break out of these frames, because there is still a little bit of this inferiority complex. Well, a little bit, and then the opposite, too. But still, the ability to dream and act on a large scale, I think that

63:20

Speaker A

is something we really need. We really need it. But that requires courage. What did you mean by that? What is it about?

63:28

Speaker A

What kind of bold decisions? What are you talking about? I think, I think that when you know how to dream and allow yourself to dream, when you bravely aren't afraid to dream of something unattainable, Uh-huh. then even if you reach only 50%

63:46

Speaker A

, you are still ahead of where you would be if you thought: "Well, I can't reach that, so that's it." Why even bother? Yeah.

63:55

Speaker A

Yes, I tried and still try to work with artists by setting such goals, even when they say: "No, no, that's impossible. I just started here, and you're already talking about some big venue or sports arena." We say, let's

64:12

Speaker A

just picture ourselves there. And when you dream of great spaces and allow yourself to, then you can inspire other people to do it too. When you aren't afraid to dream , when you remove those boundaries that exist within you, whether from

64:28

Speaker A

childhood or something else. Even for me to step out and perform then, I worked on myself, dreaming of moving on from being someone's wife and becoming Iryna Horova.

64:43

Speaker A

And that was, well, quite a challenge for me. And that’s why I removed those boundaries. I was scared, I felt physically ill, but I had this big dream. Uh-huh. And sometimes people are insecure, or they are afraid, or they

65:01

Speaker A

have this inferiority complex, because they think we won't be accepted, or sometimes some have a peripheral complex—you have to break out. And that’s why now I am very proud, what one must break out of.

65:15

Speaker A

Well, not everyone can. We know it's only 20%, but maybe everyone wants to be something more than they are, while some don't even need to. Yes. Whoever doesn't need to won't hear me anyway.

65:27

Speaker A

Uh-huh. Well, when I think about questions for guests, I have this exercise, I don't know, I always think: "What would I answer?" Oh.

65:38

Speaker A

And I had one, I actually thought about it because it struck a chord. I thought : "What is the boldest decision? Maybe I made one somewhere, and then I thought:" Is there some kind of universality to it? "It seems to me

65:51

Speaker A

that one of the boldest decisions we all need to make is the courage to be ourselves. That's about showing up, the thing we were talking about, right?

66:00

Speaker A

Exactly. Yes, I am who I am, acknowledging my limitations, acknowledging my strengths, acknowledging my needs, and moving within the framework of this innate nature and authenticity. It seems to me that without this it's impossible. Impossible. it's worth it.

66:17

Speaker A

it's not worth it. But sometimes I really wish that if someone heard this conversation, they would think about what they actually want, because sometimes we don't even stop to think, we just go with the flow, we're comfortable, it's warm, everything's

66:35

Speaker A

fine, it's habitual, and it's not scary right? But what about looking around? What else do I want to achieve? Should I analyze myself? How do others see me?

66:49

Speaker A

Is there anything to strengthen? There's a great exercise. We used it when working on personal brands for artists, where you sit people down in front of you and have them describe how they perceive you in three words.

67:04

Speaker A

Something like" energetic "or" tough, " for example. You were talking about how you were nervous and worried about it.

67:11

Speaker A

Oh no, it was actually very interesting . Well, I had different assessments, ones from my team—it wasn't just three words, it was something else entirely. Which strengths to bolster, and which ones are already great and shouldn't be touched. And there were a

67:28

Speaker A

few observations from the team that were interesting to me; I took them, processed them, and didn't try to change just because I was told to, but rather I turned my attention inward and thought:" Hmm, they pointed this out—

67:43

Speaker A

does it resonate with me, or should I leave it? "There were questions that resonated with me, and I worked on them . But this self-analysis and the desire to be a better version of myself tomorrow—and that applies to

67:56

Speaker A

everything: professional life, family, how I treat people, language, whether I want to travel or be the best. Because there are people who advance or grow in any position, and then there are people who get stuck in space, and after a

68:12

Speaker A

while, they become uncomfortable, but they can no longer change it because there is a time for everything. That's why analyzing yourself and at least writing something down, experimenting, and taking action to become that better version, as you said, is important. The

68:30

Speaker A

only thing I have to say, as a proponent of strengths-based psychology , is that according to all the data available today, it's more effective to develop what is already great. And that's where you should invest about 70 to 80 percent.

68:45

Speaker A

But you have to know what those are first. Absolutely, absolutely, absolutely. It all starts with that. Understanding who I am and what I want, and having the courage to dream and act in that direction. Yes. Like what is the best thing. So, what is my

69:00

Speaker A

superpower? Uh-huh. It is really important to know because sometimes we think our superpower is one thing, but people see something else entirely.

69:12

Speaker A

And that is interesting. The question is: who is right? I am sure that we are.

69:18

Speaker A

We are inside. And what if there are people who say:" I don't have any superpowers. "They say :" Well, how it's not, it's not like that for the majority. " And then you need to hear someone tell you:" Listen, you're a great

69:31

Speaker A

communicator, for example, or you're great at empathizing, or holding someone's hand, or you—well, people can see what you can't. "And there are people who are tired, who don't analyze , who think they have no talents, that they—I don't know, it's like an

69:47

Speaker A

epidemic. Actually, I even have a separate video on four scientific ways. By the way, if you're interested, go watch the four scientific ways to identify your strengths, and one of them is talking to people who know us well; they might ask some questions.

70:04

Speaker A

Yes, they can turn them on. Okay. Finally, I have a blitz. And a blitz, well, with you, everything turns out somewhat unconventional. The team prepared questions, I really like them, but I completely disagree with practically every single one.

70:19

Speaker A

And I was curious, uh, well, to hear your answers and compare, so this won't be a blitz for you, it will be a blitz conversation.

70:26

Speaker A

Let's do it. Interesting. First, intuition or data? Well, you can't choose. You can't choose, because sometimes the first decision can be based on intuition. You check it with numbers, right?

70:40

Speaker A

Or sometimes numbers give a result, but intuition says:" No, that's not the way . "And that's it. So I think there must be a combination.

70:50

Speaker A

Uh-huh. Like, you know, what's called a calculated risk. You take a risk because your intuition tells you to, but you read the numbers and somehow confirm it for yourself. Well, I thought that I agree with a combination , but the priority depends on the

71:07

Speaker A

context. If it's a quick decision and there's absolutely no time for data, well, okay, then we have no choice. And if the cost of failure is small—the higher the cost of failure, the more important the data. And there is always

71:19

Speaker A

a little bit of time to gather that data. So we base it on data, but we don't ignore intuition, I think. There.

71:26

Speaker A

But all my intuitive decisions were the best ones, to be honest. Well, that's, that's, that is, but that's at the beginning, when there was little to risk. That's also important.

71:37

Speaker A

And also we don't know, right? And what would have happened if maybe... Okay? Second question. Talent or system ?

71:43

Speaker A

Well, this is a question for me. Yes, and I call it the music industry now, but before it was just show business. I even had a talk about show business— that it’s still a business. But there was an important point made: the more

72:01

Speaker A

business you have, the less show there is. And the more show, the less business, because you can invent all these flowers and grand concepts, but there won't be any business there. And what’s the point of that, unless it’s some kind of social project? And

72:17

Speaker A

if you constrain creative people with a system and don’t give them freedom— like in brainstorming or execution— that won’t work either. Then what is it? Talent or system?-Fi-fi, they are, you see, some kind of...

72:31

Speaker A

Now, that is where I disagree. To me, well, again, as a professor of management, yes, it’s a system that unlocks talent, I think. Only it depends.

72:42

Speaker A

Only like that. Well, you also depend. Okay. Next one. Process control or trust in people?

72:49

Speaker A

I choose, now that the system is running, trust in people. Uh-huh. Uh-huh. Well, honestly, I’ve always had more trust in people, because our business is essentially just people. And if you don’t trust them, develop them, or work with the teams, then it just

73:08

Speaker A

won’t work. But trying to weave this into a system—not a fast one, but a steady one—is essential, because the larger the team, the less you can micromanage and control everything. But based on my experience, it really is about people, about trust, about

73:33

Speaker A

trusting creativity and self-realization; you can’t just tighten the screws and expect them to perform better like in other businesses , such as finance or law. There, you need a clear system and accountability, because that’s probably different.

73:53

Speaker A

When I worked at a bank, it was more about the system, but we still had a human-centric team.

74:01

Speaker A

Well, without trust in people, nothing will happen. It doesn’t work, in my opinion. Agreed.

74:05

Speaker A

And you see, well, it’s all 50/50 somehow. Well, I, I just got back from Kramatorsk a few days ago, and I talked to a battalion commander whose unit consists of conditionally released people.

74:20

Speaker A

Uh-huh. And I say, what a fantastic person he is. And, well, I don’t have much information, but from what I can say, I asked:" What is all this built on? "And these are assaults, storms.

74:34

Speaker A

It’s like he says:" Well, no, just as always. " And so calmly, he says, it’s respect and trust. I say:" Seriously, me, but within a system, even a strict one— it's inevitable—but it's based on respect and trust. "And moving on, a

74:50

Speaker A

system that provides the necessary control—I’d call it necessary control—but based on trust and respect. I think that works best, even in those conditions. Well, all of scientific management is about that, but it’s always about being human-centric, right?

75:07

Speaker A

That’s the interesting part. An ambition to grow or knowing when to stop? I think the ambition to grow. Well, it depends on what you mean by" knowing when to stop "and in which case, because if it's generally" reckless

75:23

Speaker A

bravery, "you know...... well, ambition is what keeps us where we need to be. Otherwise......

75:33

Speaker A

you do need to stop, but without the ambition to grow, what's the point of living, although......

75:38

Speaker A

well, maybe it’s possible to stop, but you could turn back and lose your position. I mean, here, I think it’s a combination of both; we are balancing everything. If you want to go forward not quickly, but steadily, you always

75:56

Speaker A

have to seek a balance, because you could sprint, tear a muscle, and that's it. Exactly.

76:03

Speaker A

And by the way, my favorite—you’ll probably like this—being the center of attention or creating an environment for others? Well, creating an environment, and then you’ll be in the center of attention, because you’re similar to me. I feel that for

76:20

Speaker A

me, well, like, running my YouTube channel, talking about the environment for others—no, it's not important to be in the center of attention. It’s important to me, I think, yes, to be in the center of attention......

76:32

Speaker A

by creating an environment for others. Personal brand or a strong team? Here, I think, there's a nuance. Yes, a strong team. A strong team.

76:41

Speaker A

Although a personal brand is good too, but I agree, a strong team is the priority, as it helps create and reveal the personal brand.

76:47

Speaker A

If it's a blitz, then the team. But if we get into this topic, a personal brand for me isn't just about likes, bells, and subscribers; it’s about deep, very deep work on yourself. Like CliftonStrengths, certain advantages, very prominent talents, working on

77:12

Speaker A

yourself, reducing some things, increasing others. So, it’s a personal brand when you truly understand yourself and have strengthened everything that was already strong, or slightly bolstered what......

77:27

Speaker A

you wanted to strengthen, to balance it out. Yes. And then it will be pleasant for the team to work with you, because without them, you won't be able to achieve any great things. People will come to a confident, calm, balanced

77:44

Speaker A

person who has gone through a lot and already understands how to manage everything. Well, that is, if...

77:52

Speaker A

So, a personal brand can be a tool to assemble a strong team. And it seems like an essential element. And to wrap up, what’s more important for you today: scale or meaning?

78:03

Speaker A

I think it’s more about values. Uh, it’s what creates that inner core that allows you to look broader and on a larger scale. Without it, it’s impossible. Meaning and values are the foundation of a person. If you live by

78:22

Speaker A

them, if your team lives by them too, if you understand the" why "and" how " —that you have something more than just money, money, money, scale, scale, scale—then you will be more valuable to everyone, and you’ll be able to

78:40

Speaker A

say later that you were part of something great. I left behind some kind of legacy.

78:47

Speaker A

An intangible one. Uh-huh. Maybe a tangible one too, but for me, it’s more—it’s harder work, because sometimes you lose out if you stick to your principles; someone might overtake you, but if you are confident inside that you are moving in the right

79:04

Speaker A

direction, then in the long run, you win. Well, I agree that meaning is probably primary, but for talented people, it makes no sense to just do something small. People who have meaning want to reach a vast audience.

79:20

Speaker A

No, if they have that kind of talent— which, by the way, is one of the rarest ones. So, for everyone who has it, and we do, we need to go out and broadcast those meanings to a large audience. So,

79:33

Speaker A

friends, by the way, if you have the thought of becoming an artist, you already know who to turn to. Look for" Pomitni, "follow Iryna on Instagram.

79:44

Speaker A

There are a ton of really interesting thoughts there, even if you don't want to be an artist, but you're curious about how the creative industry works, how this new industry of popular music and the cultural environment of Ukraine

79:58

Speaker A

is being created. And subscribe to the channel, share with your friends, and we look forward to seeing you in the next videos. Thank you, Iryna. It was a pleasure and very interesting to talk about myself, to hear from you, and I

80:15

Speaker A

hope to provide some significant value to the people who will be listening to us.

80:20

Speaker A

100%. That’s it, thank you so much. All the best. Yeah.

Topics: Iryna Horova creative chaos talent development Ukrainian music industry business strategy personal branding scaling business Gallup strengths creative entrepreneurship KMBS

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