**Why is Rocket Lab So Interested in Mars? | Sir Peter Beck | NSF Live — Transcript & Summary | SozAI**
Source: https://sozai.app/transcript/rocket-lab-interest-mars-peter-beck/

Sir Peter Beck discusses Rocket Lab's focus on Mars, Electron and Neutron rockets, and future missions including Mars sample return and telecom orbiter.

## Key Takeaways

- Rocket Lab prioritizes Neutron development over Electron booster recovery due to cost and resource allocation.
- Electron recovery provided valuable data for Neutron's re-entry and materials design.
- Neutron's first flight targets orbit insertion with a controlled ocean splashdown recovery.
- Rocket Lab is strategically positioning itself for Mars exploration missions, including sample return and telecom infrastructure.
- High-bandwidth, reliable communications are critical for establishing a sustainable presence on Mars.

## What the video covers

- Sir Peter Beck explains Rocket Lab's shift in focus from Electron booster recovery to Neutron development.
- Electron booster recovery is currently mothballed due to economic and resource priorities favoring Neutron.
- Experience from Electron's re-entry and recovery has directly informed Neutron's design and materials testing.
- Neutron's first flight aims to reach orbit with a soft ocean splashdown for stage one recovery.
- Rocket Lab is actively involved in Mars-related missions such as Mars sample return and the Mars telecommunications orbiter.
- The company emphasizes the importance of reliable, high-bandwidth communications for Mars exploration.
- Rocket Lab leverages its expertise in small rocket launches for planetary missions beyond Earth.
- The discussion covers technical challenges in propulsion, re-entry, and vehicle design for interplanetary missions.
- Sir Peter Beck highlights the economic and operational rationale behind Rocket Lab's current project priorities.
- The video includes insights into Rocket Lab's future plans and collaboration with NASA and other space agencies.

## Chapters

1. 00:00 Introduction and Rocket Lab Overview
2. 03:19 Electron Booster Recovery Status and Decisions
3. 06:34 Lessons from Electron for Neutron Design
4. 09:36 Neutron First Flight Objectives
5. 12:40 Technical and Operational Insights
6. 19:27 Mars Sample Return and Telecommunications
7. 23:52 Rocket Lab's Role in Mars Missions
8. 26:42 Future Plans and Closing Remarks

Answers

## Questions about this video

Is Rocket Lab still recovering Electron boosters?

Rocket Lab has currently mothballed Electron booster recovery due to economic and resource priorities focused on Neutron development, but the capability remains ready to be resumed if needed.

How has Electron recovery experience influenced Neutron?

The data and control experience from Electron's re-entry and recovery have been invaluable for Neutron's design, particularly in materials testing and guidance, navigation, and control systems.

What is the goal for Neutron's first flight?

Neutron's first flight aims to reach orbit successfully, followed by a soft splashdown of the first stage in the ocean to gather data for future recovery and reuse efforts.

## Full Transcript — Download SRT & Markdown

00:00

Speaker A

[Music] And here we go. [Music] We have propulsion continuing to be hard enough. RCA chamber pressure looks good. Going up the plant power supply.

00:28

Speaker A

[Music] It's orange. Oh my God. Oh my God. Look at that. Put that in the big bag.

00:42

Speaker A

343 unfolds to go. We rise together back to the moon and beyond. There's nothing to be igniting in the flare. Correct.

00:58

Speaker A

Thanks. You bet. We don't need any more of these. Good morning, good afternoon, good evening, everybody. Welcome back to another episode of NSF Live. My name is Ryan Kaitton. Thank you so much for joining us. We're going to get straight

01:16

Speaker A

into it because we've got a lot to talk about. Our guest, of course, the one, the only, Sir Peter Beck. Thank you very much, Peter, for joining us in this, uh, morning for you, afternoon, evening around the world. It's a, it's a, it's an

01:27

Speaker A

exciting time for Rocket Lab. I think it's fair to say. Oh, thanks very much, Ryan. It's great to talk to you. And I've got to pull you up again. I'm sorry. Last time you had me on here, uh, no picture of Electron

01:40

Speaker A

flying on your opening credits. And here we go again. When am I gonna get Electron rolled on the opening credits?

01:47

Speaker A

I will bring that up with Mr. Jack Ber, who is in charge of the intro. We have that you are not the, you are not the first guest to mention, uh, things that should be in the intro that are not in

01:57

Speaker A

the intro. I will put it that way. But yeah, second most frequently launched rocket in the world. Come on. Come on, guys.

02:05

Speaker A

We, we, I, I, Jack and Max went, uh, were invited down to, uh, New Zealand, uh, I can't remember now. Nearly a couple years ago. So, you're right. We do need to get some Electron footage of the intro. Uh, but also alongside me to

02:19

Speaker A

bring in some of the chat questions, Sawya Rosenstein joining us. Uh, how you doing, Sawya?

02:24

Speaker A

I'm doing great. Yeah, they were down there for the 50th Electron launch. So, we have the footage. We just got to make sure we get that in there.

02:31

Speaker A

I'm not going to let it slide, guys. Come on. I picked you up last time.

02:37

Speaker A

I will, I will make sure to bring that up with, with, with Jack as soon as we're done. Uh, but, uh, we've got you for an hour or so. So we're going to be, uh, starting off with, uh, what's going

02:47

Speaker A

on here on Earth. First of all, I've designed this very cleverly. We're going to start on Earth, then we'll move up to Venus, and then we'll move on to Mars.

02:53

Speaker A

Uh, saving the best till last because there has been a lot of discussion as of late around Mars, Mars sample return, the Mars telecommunications orbiter, all of that jazz. We'll be getting on to that. Uh, but, uh, first of all, uh, uh, we're

03:06

Speaker A

going to start with, uh, Electron, uh, of course, as you were so, uh, fantastically, uh, advertising it there at the start. Um, uh, the last time we had you on the show was just shy of two years ago. You just

03:19

Speaker A

reflew the Rutherford engine for the first time on a flight, uh, because you were, you were recovering those Electron boosters. Uh, but since that point it appears that the recovery has kind of dwindled out. You don't really appear to

03:31

Speaker A

be doing that anymore. Is it officially, uh, cancelled? Are you no longer recovering Electron? Uh, can you dive into any of the, any of the decisions behind the mission profiles that you've been, you've been flying with Electron?

03:43

Speaker A

Yeah, sure. Sure. No, I mean, we got to a really good point with Electron. Um, in fact, the last, uh, reusable flight, um, that we splashed down, uh, the booster is actually sitting in the back of the factory there, um, ready to roll through

03:54

Speaker A

the line. But, uh, but really what it came down to is priorities. And, um, you know, right now I need, uh, the recovery team, um, and reusability team working neutron, not Electron, um, and, you know, there it is.

04:06

Speaker A

There is a, there is kind of a, a, you know, positive economic, um, case for reusing Electron, but the reality is like an Electron sticker price is 8 million, call it, um, neutron sticker price is 55 million, uh, and sort of 70% of the total

04:22

Speaker A

cost of a vehicle is in the first stage. So it just, it just, you know, it's just a, you know, where is it most sensible to point the resource and the most sensible place to point the resource right now is

04:33

Speaker A

definitely on Neutron. So we might pick it up, um, a little bit later but, you know, economically it's not a big enough lever to pull right now, um, and also just, you know, the resources of the team but

04:43

Speaker A

no, we got it in a good place, um, and it's, it's ready to, ready to pick up when we, when we get a little bit more time.

04:50

Speaker A

That's awesome. So it's kind of mothballed for the time being. It's not entirely gone away. You can still spool it back up if, if, if that becomes, you know, if that makes sense economically at a later date.

04:59

Speaker A

Yeah. Yeah. And like I say, we got the last one we were really, really happy with. We, we had all of our, um, waterproofing, um, techniques and, and, and design changes on that vehicle and, and it all looked really good actually. So,

05:10

Speaker A

um, but yeah, it's just, just Neutron is just a giant sucking sound of all resource and, and, uh, and capital in the company.

05:19

Speaker A

Yeah. Uh, and speaking of Neutron, uh, kind of the transition from Electron to Neutron, uh, is, uh, you say that teams have been moving to Electron, uh, sorry, to Neutron recovery. Was there any of the, uh, experience that you gained by

05:34

Speaker A

recovering Electron? Did any of that data fuel the design for Neutron and so I'm getting a sense that it did?

05:43

Speaker A

Yes. Yes. I would have hated to come into Neutron without doing that. Right. Um, so Electron was a little bit unique in the fact that it was a completely, um, unboosted re-entry. Um, if that's, if that's a correct way to describe it. I

05:55

Speaker A

mean, we, we, we had, we had no, we had no burns. So, what that means is, is we came in stinking hot. Um, and we really had to manage the angle of attack. We had to manage the heating. Um, and you

06:07

Speaker A

know that that aerothermal re-entry environment is really hard to model. Like it's, it's, it's a multifysics problem. Um, you've got, you know, thermal, mechanical and chemistry. It's really nasty to model. So just actually, uh, you know, getting real data, um, and real

06:22

Speaker A

control data, um, going as, as you come in was super valuable. Uh, we test a lot of materials. So a lot of the materials, um, uh, that are on Neutron all went through that re-entry program. So, um, you know, we

06:34

Speaker A

we, we bought a lot of risk down on those materials. But, you know, I would say that the, you know, one of the biggest was just, um, you know, the GNC element, uh, the targeting, um, and, and re-entry kind

06:44

Speaker A

of interface stuff is was just super, super valuable. Um, you know, we would, we would have massive big holes in, in our models and our data if we didn't, uh, didn't weren't able to, to redo those re-entries.

06:57

Speaker A

Sounds cool. Uh, so, we should, we should probably talk about Neutron in more detail. It is, it's the big flashy thing that is coming up and we're all very excited for it. Fingers crossed shortly.

07:06

Speaker A

Uh, uh, just very briefly, uh, if you could give us a, uh, kind of a rundown of what you are expecting with the first flight of Neutron because some, some companies, some rockets, it's like if we clear the

07:18

Speaker A

pad, jobs are good and good day for us. Some other rockets like SLS, they fly around the moon on the first time, right? So whereabouts on that scale does Neutron fall? No, yeah, no, I don't subscribe to any of

07:30

Speaker A

that clear the pad is a great day kind of scenarios. No, um, so the clear intention is, is to, to, to go to, to go to orbit with Neutron. Um, uh, we cut a cut, you know, everybody a little bit of

07:42

Speaker A

slack on re-entry. Um, you know, we're not slipping a barge under the, the first, um, the first kind of re-entry. Uh, so, um, you know, yeah, we should absolutely be going to orbit on the first flight, but, um, uh, we'll do a soft splash down, um, in

07:55

Speaker A

the ocean for stage one. And, um, undoubtedly there'll be some things to learn from that before we go and, you know, put a very expensive hunk of metal under it and, and try and land it.

08:07

Speaker A

Yeah. Yeah. And speaking of orbit, do you have any payloads in mind to be deployed? Are you going for an operational payload or a fun payload or is there any insight into that just yet?

08:17

Speaker A

Well, see, last time I put a

08:29

Speaker A

now. Um and to it's funny the team was we were talking about it the other day and um I've just been completely focused on the vehicle. I didn't really even give it much thought. Um but uh but yes,

08:40

Speaker A

no I'll have to do something but um uh it's it's certainly certainly not priority um right now. It's it's it's all about the vehicle. But um but it's a good it's a good kick up the butt to um

08:52

Speaker A

to to think about something cool for sure. Yeah. Okay. So it's not ruled out.

08:57

Speaker A

No, it's not ruled out. It's not ruled out. I'll try and do something less controversial this time though, that's for sure.

09:03

Speaker A

Okay. And uh the date for when that first launch may be, are you still targeting that to happen this year? We are halfway through September now. So So time is ticking before 2025 comes to an end.

09:16

Speaker A

Yeah. Yeah. Look, I mean, we we will we're pushing super hard and we will be there in the last day of December until the last hour uh trying to trying to get a launch away. Um you know we run run

09:25

Speaker A

green light schedules meaning that you know there is there is no there's no fat and everything and you know always caution everybody it look it's a rocket program um but you know we are pushing super super hard like literally the team

09:36

Speaker A

is is uh is is sleeping in the factories um uh to try and try and get one on the pad and away by the end of the year. Uh but I mean we always like to put this into context. I mean you know the

09:46

Speaker A

timeline that we brought Neutron to life is crazy short. Um and uh you know a few months here and there is kind of irrelevant in a in a 20 or 30 year lifespan of a product. But uh that being

09:58

Speaker A

said uh nobody's waving the white flag yet and we'll keep pushing until until it's no longer feasible.

10:06

Speaker A

So, uh, I'm wondering if Jake Eaggan, our wonderful producer in the background, can bring up some of the images of that launchpad, which, uh, you opened officially, uh, a few weeks ago, because we've been getting a lot of

10:18

Speaker A

questions in chat and in the member Discord, because you've got a wonderful swanky looking pad, wonderful huge water tower, but your launch mount is static and there isn't a huge tower, so everyone is wondering. Yes.

10:34

Speaker A

How are you going to be stacking the rocket on the pad? Is Rocket Lab in the market for a big crawler crane or how are you guys going to be working that one out?

10:42

Speaker A

Yeah, know it's a great question. So, uh this is kind of phase one of the pad and then there this phase two and the uh the kind of design requirements for for Neutron is never break it over. So, we

10:53

Speaker A

want to launch it vertically, we want to land it vertically, we want to integrate vertically and and fly again vertically.

10:58

Speaker A

So um when we sort of stood back at the very design point of the vehicle and said okay what are the conops that suck what are the conops that take time what are the conops that that that add cost

11:08

Speaker A

and risk and it's always breaking it over right so um so stage kind of phase one is yeah we crane it on um that's fine uh stage two there is a there's a rollover gantry there that um that

11:20

Speaker A

enables us to to to pick it uh and place it and then ultimately integrate um in in that rollover gantry and that just means that the vehicle never ever needs to go horizontal. And I mean it's it's landed vertically, it's launched

11:32

Speaker A

vertically, it's shipped vertically, and then um it's just a whole another operation you don't need to do. And um there's no launch tower because uh you know, if we stand back and we looked at Electron, it's like, man, what is the

11:43

Speaker A

thing that that sucks on Electron? And it's always a stage two umbilical rebuild. So you know, after every flight, those umbilicals just get a hard time. It's kind of hard not to because they get get in the breeze. um it's not

11:54

Speaker A

it's not necessarily a tremendous cost, but it's just a pain in the butt to have to rebuild those and inspect those umbilicals. So, you know, this is designed to be a high cadence, high turnaround, short turnaround kind of

12:06

Speaker A

vehicle. So, um you know, we put a lot of stuff in stage one that you would normally kind of segregate out and into either stage two or infrastructure.

12:16

Speaker A

So, all of stage two, um as you know, is embedded in stage one. Um we do that so we we have a really clean load path. Um, so that means that all the fluids and gases are umbilical up through stage one

12:28

Speaker A

and into stage two. So there's just there's actually just no need for a tower um anymore. And because we're not breaking it over, you don't need that structural element um or member of a tower either. So it just keeps the pad

12:40

Speaker A

super clean um and uh like there's just no maintenance required between turnarounds. Um and uh you know just keeps all the complexity kind of illed into stage one.

12:53

Speaker A

And speaking of the different stages we're seeing there, that picture of stage two, it's within stage one because neutron is a very it's it's not a traditional one stage stacked top another stage stacked at top another stage, right? Like everything it's

13:07

Speaker A

really if you were trying to describe neutron to somebody who isn't really that in tune with rockets, it's like well they've got the fairings but the fairings are attached to stage one but then there's stage two inside stage. So,

13:17

Speaker A

I'm just wondering if you could give us a little rundown as to why uh because between the last interview and now it was revealed on your website that stage one is actually going to be kind of in two modules which are then going to be

13:29

Speaker A

connected. So, I'm just wondering if you could give us a little a little insight into how that assembly process is actually going to take place cuz it's very untraditional. We haven't really seen anything like this before.

13:38

Speaker A

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. And look, this all comes from the starting point of reusability, right? Cost and reusability. what are the you know if you've got to go and fish out fairings out of the ocean that's just another another ship um and another process and

13:50

Speaker A

another refurb and so on and so forth. So the best thing to do is to not throw your fairings away. So we we came up with the the hungry hippo fairing that we we kind of lovingly named it um uh

14:01

Speaker A

where you know the fairings remain attached to stage one and then um if you do the economics around uh total reusability of stage one and stage two it's kind of for a 13 ton vehicle it's kind of you know 50/50 whether or not uh

14:15

Speaker A

the the the reusability of stage two actually pencils out. Um now I if you if you went in the traditional kind of sense you know it probably does but if you if you kind of think a little bit

14:26

Speaker A

outside the box then um then it then it gets really kind of blurry and you know stage two is one of those things where it it is you know in neutron it is it is you know disposable um so it has to be

14:39

Speaker A

incredibly low cost but um you know ironically it has to be the highest performing stage so that you've got kind of an oxymoron there where you need you know something super high performance and super cheap. Um and you know the way

14:52

Speaker A

you kind of do that um and the way we approach this is that you take stage two out of the load path because if you look at the if you look at the load through the upper stage you know the dominant

15:02

Speaker A

load uh you know there's obviously the pressure load but the dominant load is the bending moments um and if you can you can take those loads out then you can basically make um almost a balloon tank of carbon. So stage two is is kind

15:16

Speaker A

of hung like a like a like a you know a sack in stage one um where there's no structural load path through it. So the tank is super light. Um and because it's super light it means there's almost no

15:27

Speaker A

carbon in it. Because there's no carbon in it, it means it's super cheap to make and the material cost is very very low.

15:33

Speaker A

And because there's no mass to it, it's really high performance. So um it's really about optimizing um the the disposal element to be just ridiculously cheap. And we think um we think the economics in in this approach are are

15:45

Speaker A

very very favorable. So that that that's that's kind of how we end up with stage two on the inside. Now your point about kind of splitting stage one into modules that's kind of an intermediate approach again um you know once we have the the

15:58

Speaker A

total um rollover gantry then you know we'll be able to integrate um vertically on that and we never never need to split a module. But um the the the the module design allows for a couple of things.

16:10

Speaker A

one um you can do piloted integration uh you know off the vehicle in a clean room in the module um and if you look at stage one it allows you to kind of have I don't know think of it like a truck

16:21

Speaker A

trailer kind of scenario where you the boost to the power pack you know the all all the engines press system stage separations all those kind of elements are all you know retained within that stage one then you have the module that

16:33

Speaker A

splits off the top um that enables you to do uh sort of separate payload integrations and whatnot so you can have like a couple of um a couple of stage one, you know, booster sort of power packs on the on the pad, if you will. Um

16:46

Speaker A

and then you can just integrate modules. Um and from a maintenance perspective, you can, you know, take out the bit that that has all the thermal cycles. Uh do whatever maintenance you want to do on it and um get more longevity out of the

16:58

Speaker A

upper stage bit or the upper module uh that doesn't see so much thermal load and so much structural load. So, you know, a tank and power pack might be reasonable 20 times. a uh an upper stage might be used reasonable 50 or 100

17:10

Speaker A

times. So it's really about you know splitting splitting those things apart for the economics.

17:16

Speaker A

So those will be mix and matchable. It's not going to be like one module is directly tied to another module and it stays with that for its entire lifespan.

17:23

Speaker A

You can swap those out as needed. 100%. Yep. Yep. Think about it like swapping engines on the wing of a airplane.

17:32

Speaker A

Interesting. Uh and speaking of those production with stage two but also with stage one, what kind of production rate mate overall are you expecting for Neutron? How many let's say completed vehicles uh both parts of stage one, stage two, how many of those are you

17:46

Speaker A

expecting to be kind of rolling off the production line to so to speak uh say per year?

17:52

Speaker A

Yeah. Yeah. Well, this this is the bane of my existence to be honest with you because um ironically uh for for the early stages of the program, we need the most number of stage ones we'll probably ever need. Um because uh you know the

18:05

Speaker A

chances of us uh you know reusing them you know one straight away is is probably low. There'll be some iteration and some learnings. So uh so you know it's like the production flow is is almost backwards. It's like we need the

18:18

Speaker A

most first and then um once we start reusing them we need less. Uh so you know the factory is kind of set up for the highest production rate um out of the chute which is which is backwards.

18:28

Speaker A

Um the the way we're thinking about the flight rate for Neutron though is pretty much identical to to um to Electron and that you know we'll fly one then we'll fly three and then we'll fly five and then we'll scale from there a a year

18:41

Speaker A

that is and um you know there's there's lots of tension within the company about uh can we fly more faster obviously um but uh sort of holding firm on that that one because it's you know we we proved

18:53

Speaker A

with Electron um you know you fly one you learn a tremendous amount you just need that iteration time to to roll all those learnings in and uh and you know to to fly more than three the next year

19:03

Speaker A

is is kind of unrealistic really. Uh even if you do have the production rate to support it, you you want to take advantage of those learnings cuz the worst thing you can do is is like put a vehicle in production that's really

19:15

Speaker A

tough to produce that's got some really nasty elements to it. Then you just battle with that for, you know, forever and ever. And I think, you know, we've learned a lot of these lessons with with Electron because, you know, Electron now

19:26

Speaker A

it's flight 70 completed and flight 71 on a pad. You like the inertia to change when you get that far in is really high.

19:35

Speaker A

So, um you nobody wants to change anything cuz it's it's proven and it works and and all the rest of it. So, the time to get your change done is and your block upgrades are really early on.

19:45

Speaker A

So allowing that kind of time to get those block upgrades um means that ultimately you know a couple of years down the track you end up with a much much better vehicle.

19:56

Speaker A

And speaking of the future, I believe Sawya has a couple questions from the chat room uh about uh where potentially Neutron could be launching from. Soya, what have you got?

20:05

Speaker A

Oh, this will be good. Yeah, exactly. Um Ross was asking in chat, are there any future plans to launch Neutron from any other spaceports other than Wallops? Obviously, you have Mahia where you're launching currently with Electron. Any other places maybe

20:18

Speaker A

that aren't on the map that we know of that are being considered? No, I mean I suspect in time we'll probably need a West Coast site. Um uh although there is a quite a nice sun-synchronous corridor out of Wallops

20:29

Speaker A

actually. It's a nicer sunsynchronous corridor than um than the Cape, but it's still a big dog leg, so it's still a big energy sink. Um so I suspect in time we'll probably have to have a you know a

20:39

Speaker A

sunsynchronous or or west coast launch site. Um but but no no plans for that right now. Um you know I think I've said it before. I really dislike building launch sites because um they're the they're the biggest P&L burner you can

20:52

Speaker A

imagine. Um you know if you look at if you look at like uh Neutron um the vast majority of all neutron expenditure has gone into infrastructure like literally pouring concrete and steel in the ground. Um you know the actual cost of

21:06

Speaker A

the vehicle and the bomb of the vehicle is pretty low. Um but it's it's the the um you know all of that infrastructure build is is really expensive and you know with not not dissimilar to to electron pads we put a lot of of you

21:19

Speaker A

know stage one in the pad um so you know they're very complex machines um and uh you know obviously take a lot of resources to build that I mean that makes sense ground support equipment is everyone's favorite um and

21:34

Speaker A

one thing I know that is also one of your favorites so to speak, has been marine assets. I mean, now we obviously have return on investment becoming a reality here. So, supersonic retropulsion is asking, do marine assets still suck?

21:51

Speaker A

They do. They I'm sorry, but they do. They just you put them in the water and they literally just start melting away in front of your eyes. So, um now they are a necessary evil, I have to admit.

22:02

Speaker A

Um so you know we we have our barge under construction um return on investment uh right now and um and uh so that that is that is a you know it's a large piece of steel and um you know it

22:15

Speaker A

yeah it it look there's there's there's just too much uh you know too much penalty to return to launch site I mean so you end up um end up landing on a barge but yes no um it's a definitely a

22:27

Speaker A

lovehate relationship for sure. Uh that's fantastic. I'm excited to see it in action then. Uh Ryan, I'll send it back to you for some more questions.

22:39

Speaker A

Yeah. Uh because speaking of return in return on investment uh that is currently under construction, but we have seen in the past uh some companies are utilizing more than one landing vessel. So is that something in the future for Neutron? Are you going to end

22:55

Speaker A

up with a fleet of barges or have you not worse? Now you're going to have fleet of marine assets. Does this work?

23:02

Speaker A

No. Uh, no. We'll we will try. I mean, look, as as cadence increases, um, you know, we've we've got a a pretty slick um, con ops here that, um, hopefully we don't have to have too many marine assets to meet what we need to meet. Um,

23:15

Speaker A

but, you know, there is a point in in in scaling where where you have so much launch and the transit time to get back is is is insufficient to, you know, to allow for the launch cadence. So um you

23:25

Speaker A

know unfortunately there may there may need to be more marine assets in time but at at the moment um we uh we really we're really focused on um the conops and uh you know that that that barge has

23:38

Speaker A

1 megawatt worth of um electrical power to to drive the the electric thrusters and uh the electric thrusters lift out and pivot out. So, um, you know, we can we can boogie that thing along cuz you don't want to, you know, you don't want

23:52

Speaker A

to have to wait for ages to get your rocket back. So, um, you know, we took some learnings from others on that one and and, um, you know, and and made a speedy barge, not a not a sluggish

24:01

Speaker A

barge. A speedy barge. You probably could have named it that to be honest, but uh, yeah. Anyways, uh, is return to launch site uh, recovery still on the cards for Neutron?

24:14

Speaker A

I I guess that would mean using gas marine assets or how how's how how's the performance uh on neutron for that?

24:20

Speaker A

Yeah, I mean it's the same I mean it's physics so it's the same kind of knockdown you would expect on on on any any vehicle doing doing those kind of um you know those kind of re-entry burns.

24:30

Speaker A

Uh and and yeah, look uh you know um absolutely much rather landed back on on land than than out at sea, but you know the penalty is always fairly high. Um and you know some missions will allow it

24:41

Speaker A

but uh you know it's all about um you know getting to getting to flight quickly and getting that cadence up. Um you know the licensing regime for a return to launch site is is is quite complicated. Um and uh you know so that

24:54

Speaker A

we didn't want to bite that off um right at the beginning. We'll we'll bite that off later as is kind of a cost down reduction point.

25:02

Speaker A

And when neutron is coming back through the atmosphere for re-entry it of course has its flaps. It has its landing gear.

25:10

Speaker A

How are you guys going to be powering those? Is that going to be powered by hydraulics? Are you using electrics to power that? We've seen obviously various uh solutions to these problems from other people in the past. How are you

25:21

Speaker A

guys going to be uh sorting this one out? Yeah. No, so we're all all electromechanical. So, our heritage is electromechanical. Um so, uh you know, Electron obviously it has electric um pump motors. So, we have a lot of

25:33

Speaker A

experience with with high voltage, high power um that electric pump motors. um rather fit is all electromechanical TBC.

25:40

Speaker A

So we've never had hydraulics in the suit in in the loop. So the the natural you know propensity for the the engineers um is to just just go electromechanical. Um and um so the uh you know the cannards as you point out

25:52

Speaker A

um there are they're electromechanical um slightly larger than the TVC's on the engines. Um obviously the you know the load the load case is slightly larger but I mean if you put them side by side they look basically the same. One is

26:04

Speaker A

just a bigger brother than the other. Um uh but um you know we we just basically scaled up all the electromechanical TVC stuff we did for for um for electron that's proven to be really really reliable and efficient. Um so yeah no no

26:18

Speaker A

hydraulics um all uh all electric. That's pretty neat. And we've uh spoken to the uh production rate that you're looking for with Neutron. Have you got any idea on the turnaround times yet?

26:32

Speaker A

what kind of uh uh mission uh turnaround from landing the booster to reflying it.

26:38

Speaker A

Uh but then I also recall you saying that you can split the booster into two parts. So that might cause a little bit of uh it doesn't really create a clear definition of what a turnaround time may mean. So what are you what are you

26:50

Speaker A

expecting with that? Yeah. Well, actually just to finish off on the last the last question about Electro TVC. So, uh, we actually use the the, um, the Electron HVB bats, um, that that run the pump motors to, uh, to to

27:02

Speaker A

run all those, um, so it's actually exactly the same part number out of out of Electron that that runs all those TBCs. So, there's a lot of and there's quite a few instances where there's there's the same part numbers between

27:12

Speaker A

vehicles, but, um, you know, to answer your question that the the design point for the vehicle was 24 hours. So, um, for the same vehicle, uh, so that that was the design point. Now, uh I appreciate that's somewhat of an

27:25

Speaker A

unrealistic design point, but sometimes you have to you have to put you have to, you know, create a set of requirements that are completely unrealistic to get to get something good. Um and uh so everything uh everything was driven off

27:38

Speaker A

that requirement. Um right back to like propellant selection. Um, one of the key reasons why um, we went for for for methane and oxygen um, was uh, was was simply because of that 24-hour turn turnaround because, you know, we have a

27:52

Speaker A

lot of experience obviously with lockso and, you know, you just can't get around the fact that you get sooting on on that lock that locks KO um, propulsion cycle.

28:01

Speaker A

So, you have to do quite a lot of cleaning especially of turbines and whatnot and and and stuff to to be able to recycle an engine. whereas, you know, you run a locks, you know, methylox engine and and it's it's still shiny on

28:12

Speaker A

the inside after you after you finish a full pull. So, um it's it's just those those kind of highle requirements were were just locked in in day one and they drove all of these um all of these design decisions. Um you know, same with

28:25

Speaker A

the fairings, right? um you can't be, you know, messing around horizontal breaking a rocket over and and integrating uh fairings on like you just need to zip them open, drop your second stage with your payload integrated into the top and zip them closed and be ready

28:39

Speaker A

to go. So um so that that's the requirements. Now whether or not we ever achieved that is a different is a is a is a different kind of you know question but but certainly um you know there's nothing

28:51

Speaker A

that's been designed uh and incorporated into the vehicle today that won't allow that technically to happen. Now whe whether like I say whether we can is a different is a different kettle of fish.

29:01

Speaker A

Interesting. Okay. Uh rolling back to the opening of launch complex 3 very quickly. uh during the various speeches that were uh said there, there was one line which pretty much everyone's on the team's ears were very interested when

29:17

Speaker A

this was mentioned. We noticed that human space flight was mentioned in a list of various future capabilities.

29:24

Speaker A

Has there been any sort of development towards that from Rocket Lab? Of course, we saw the not a capsule announcement a couple of years ago.

29:32

Speaker A

Have anything has anything progressed since that point or is it still just kind of something in the distance? If we'll do it, we might do it. We don't know yet. How's that playing out for you at the moment?

29:42

Speaker A

Well, I think I even went on your show and said that I would never build a bigger rocket and had to pay uh pay the consequences for that. So now I rule nothing out. Um and uh and so you know,

29:54

Speaker A

Neutron is is is being designed to be human ratable. Um not human rated out of the factory, but human ratable. So what that means is like stuff like safety factor and tanks like you don't want to go back and recoil all of your your your

30:06

Speaker A

you know your main tanks because you you're bit shy on safety factor for human space flight. So um so we've done all that sort of stuff up front. Now um the reality is that currently there is one destination served by one and a half

30:20

Speaker A

providers um and and served well. Uh so you know we're very commercial here at Rocket Lab. There is no business case right there is there's there's one destination and one customer. there's there's no business case to go and run

30:32

Speaker A

off and and develop a capsule. But um I don't believe that's going to be the future. I think I think there will be multiple destinations and uh there'll be multiple customers and uh when there is I want to make sure that we're ready to

30:45

Speaker A

ready to compete and ready to service. So um this is why it's it's like it's not a not a capsule announcement because you know we're we're we're certainly enabling the vehicle to do it and um you know it it certainly will be possible.

30:59

Speaker A

Um, but until there's there's kind of a a really strong commercial imperative to do it, then we'll just we'll just sit on our hands and and wait until that time.

31:09

Speaker A

Okay. Interesting. And uh one more point on Neutron speaking to the future. You were you spoke earlier about uh block upgrades. Is there anything already in your mind about what could come after the first few flights of Neutron? Or are

31:23

Speaker A

you holding back any kind of block two or anything like that until you've actually flown a vehicle, gotten that data, and you know, have an experience of what it is like to to fly a vehicle of that size?

31:34

Speaker A

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Well, so we're following pretty much the identical path we did with Electron. Um and uh you know, for for Block One, if you will, um we have high margins. So, um uh you know, we we reserve a lot of payload

31:47

Speaker A

margin. um for kind of um you know putting putting bounds around anything. And you know when when you start with a vehicle design you you you know you create all your Monte Carlos and some of those Monte Carlos are unbounded until

31:58

Speaker A

you actually go and fly. Um and over time you you understand um you know the the the the performance of the vehicle propellant residuals all of these kinds of things. And our approach has always been we just sort of trim those down

32:10

Speaker A

over time. And if you look at Electron's um PA performance it just it just goes up and up and up and over time. There's no um there's no kind of fundamental like we have to go back and redo this

32:22

Speaker A

kind of thing. Um but you know as you're as you're building the first of something you you kind of learn ah man that really sucked building that let's if we change the design of that then um that will be way easier to build and way

32:35

Speaker A

easier to maintain. And you know you you think you can you can be good out of the shoot by designing it. But, you know, the the reality is that something on CAD versus something that you're crawling around, you know, in reality, uh, is is

32:48

Speaker A

always is always very different. So, you know, as I said before, you want to leave that time to to to roll those things in. So, there's yeah, there's no like major kind of block upgrades planned. Um, you know, we'll always

33:00

Speaker A

start at conservative points everywhere. That includes in propulsion. So, you know, uh the Archimedes engine is is will be starting at a very conservative design point, even more conservative than than um than than even though it's a very conservative, you know, engine.

33:12

Speaker A

It will start even more conservatively and will start to stretch its legs over time. Um so, uh that that's just kind of our approach.

33:20

Speaker A

Yeah, I mean that makes perfect sense, right? And we've seen that many times before. You don't want to, you know, go too far. You don't want to go into into the deep end and then, you know, blow everything out of the water. If you want

33:30

Speaker A

to be gradual, step up. Make sure that you're you're ready for it when you when you have that those increases in performance. And uh Sawya, I will throw it back to you for a couple more questions from the chat room.

33:41

Speaker A

Sure. Although if it's blown out of the water, you don't need marine assets. Um here's a question uh saying, "Based on past electron re-entry telemetry data, modeling simulations, what level of confidence do you have in recovering neutron on your first attempt at

33:58

Speaker A

recovery? Well, that's a it's a that's a difficult one to put a number against. Um, I would say that just like an order of magnitude more confident than if we didn't do the electron stuff. Um, you know, when we

34:11

Speaker A

first did the uh the first electron re-entry, um, the original design for Electron had like a ballute, an inflatable ball at the bottom um to to try and manage the thermal load. Um and uh I convince the team it's like let's

34:25

Speaker A

just try it and let's instrument it and just see see what it's see what we get because the bounds on the on the the kind of multifysical modeling is so wide that um you know you you really don't

34:36

Speaker A

know how the oxygen is going to react and you really don't know you know where all those shock waves are going to attach or or you get those shock shock interactions. Um, and you know, we had no validated models to to to to really

34:49

Speaker A

prove it. And um, you know, we brought uh bought Electron in and lo and behold, the first one made it all the way in.

34:54

Speaker A

And um, you know, all of a sudden we're we're able to validate those models. So, as we sit today, you know, we're not coming in there with like completely unvalidated materials, completely unvalidated models. Like we have validation points for all of these

35:08

Speaker A

things. Um, now it's a different vehicle. So, um, you know, shock shock interactions are, you know, like I talked I think I mentioned in with electron like plasma knives. They're literally like you you have one of those. Um, you can put just about

35:22

Speaker A

anything in front of it and it just slices through it. So, um, so you know, you have to manage those very very carefully. Um, and you never know if you've got that right. But, um, but you know, I think I mean I don't know. I

35:34

Speaker A

can't I can't give you a percentage confidence level, but um I think I think you you know it's in in the medium to high kind of category. Um I think um we'll have a good shot at getting the

35:43

Speaker A

first one um first one down. Um but there is other other things that um that are that are challenging there because obviously we have to we have to relight the engine um and uh you know you've got uh propellant management devices uh to

35:57

Speaker A

keep the propellant um in you know in the down comers um so that you can actually ignite the engine. um you've got propellant condition. So, you know, on the ground, you can condition it really lovely, have it nice and cold and

36:08

Speaker A

and um whereas when you're doing your re-entry, you know, you've got sort of propellant sloshing around. You have allerg collapse and mixing and and all these kind of nasty stuff that um that you you think you understand and but

36:20

Speaker A

it's not until you you go and try and light an engine that you really do understand.

36:25

Speaker A

Yeah. Like you mentioned before, there's only so much you can do on CAD versus actual flying.

36:30

Speaker A

Yep. Yep. And here's an interesting question. Um, this person's asking, "What kind of overlap does Rocket Lab expect between Electron and Neutron? And eventually with Neutron being online, is there plans to retire Electron?" So, I get this question asked heaps. Um,

36:49

Speaker A

and it's and it's funny. Um, if you look at the growth of the Electron vehicle and its cadence, it's just it's just growing and growing and growing every year. Um, and we just sell more and more Electrons every year. And that's

37:00

Speaker A

fundamentally because Electron just does something completely different than any other vehicle that's on the market today. Um, you know, it's a it's a small dedicated ride. And if you if you kind of roll back pre-electron, um, if you had like 150 200 300 kg

37:15

Speaker A

satellite and you you had a specific orbit to reach, you go and buy a Pegasus for, I don't know, somewhere between 30 and $50 million or a minutear between $30 and $50 million, right?

37:27

Speaker A

um that that was your options. Um now those missions existed and those you know I think it was like 20 or 30 Pegasus flew over time and I can't remember how many minotaars. Um but you know that sort of 50 and $30 million

37:40

Speaker A

dollar price point. Um now you buy an Electron for $8 million. Um so uh you know it's just enabled a whole another level of um of of access to space you know for folks. So, you know, you can

37:53

Speaker A

put Electron, sorry, Neutron on the pad and it it can't do what Electron does.

37:58

Speaker A

Um, you know, you're going to be spending $55 million for a dedicated flight, for a dedicated orbit on Neutron. That's that just doesn't, you know. So, I guess the way I think about it is is Electron did for the small

38:10

Speaker A

launch market what Falcon 9 did for the mediumass launch market. It just completely dislocated the the pricing and cadence structure. Um, and as a result, the products become very successful. So there's a very long-winded way of answering the

38:23

Speaker A

question is no. Electron is going nowhere. In fact, you know, we just see the growth in that product year after year after year.

38:30

Speaker A

Maybe I should just answer it like that and saved everybody a lot of time.

38:34

Speaker A

Thank goodness I love Electron. It's such a cool little rocket. Um but yeah, uh I keep tagging at NASA Spaceflight in chat for questions if you have some in chat. But uh I know you have plenty more Ryan.

38:47

Speaker A

Yeah. Uh we've spent a good uh nearly 40 minutes or so talking about uh everything you've been doing on and around Earth, but of course Rocket Gab has interplanetary ambitions coming up shortly. Fingers crossed. We have your private mission to Venus. I was just

39:02

Speaker A

wondering if you could give us a little update of how things are coming along on that front at the moment.

39:07

Speaker A

Yeah, well historically I think as we've we've pointed out that that's a that's always been a you know a nights and weekends kind of project. Um, and unfortunately, uh, the amount of nights and weekends we're trying to get a

39:18

Speaker A

launch vehicle to the pad right now are consumed. Um, so, uh, we haven't we haven't made tremendous progress on that. Um, uh, however, uh, you know, that that should be should be changing shortly. Um, we that project will get a

39:31

Speaker A

bit of a boost. Um, so, uh, we'll be able to move forward on that and in in more of a formal way, which will which will be great. Um, but, uh, but you know, we have, um, the re-entry capsule

39:41

Speaker A

is is, uh, is is complete. the TPS is complete um and uh you know the instrument is complete which are the you know long long poles and um and and now uh you know with neutron coming online we we no longer need to try and uh cram

39:56

Speaker A

it into a an electron. So um so the aperture for the for the spacecraft is kind of opened up a little bit. So that enables us to do um to do more things um and and have more more kind of um more

40:09

Speaker A

scope on that that that spacecraft. So that uh that spacecraft designed aperture has sort of been opened up a bit with um with Neutron, you know, with with the ability of flight on Neutron now. So we're just uh taking our time to

40:20

Speaker A

to see what um what we can do there. Awesome. Uh so it's a it's a night and weekends project. Do you have a a net date you're currently working towards or is it just uh it'll happen when it will

40:33

Speaker A

happen? Well, there's there's some good opportunities um you obviously for planetary alignment in uh next year. So, um, so it'd be great to see if we could get one, uh, get it away next year. But, um, I'm I'm also, you know, just

40:45

Speaker A

realistic. The amount of stuff that we've got on that's real paying work is is really high. So, um, so that always that always kind of takes a backseat, but um, but hopefully we can we can improve that shortly.

40:57

Speaker A

Awesome. Yeah, it's uh, it's definitely something we've been keeping an eye on because it's pretty exciting indeed.

41:02

Speaker A

Venus hasn't been getting too much love as of late. So, it's it's nice to see something actually going towards what is a pretty interesting planet.

41:11

Speaker A

Yeah. No, absolutely. And and uh look, it's it's it's I I'm as you know, I'm fascinated with Venus and I think um you know, the some some of the discovery of some some life markers on Mars recently are super exciting, but it just it just

41:24

Speaker A

um it just, you know, it just it's just so important to get to Venus and and have a look. So, you know, I'll be I'll be um you know, taking a much greater personal interest in that project here shortly.

41:37

Speaker A

And of course, speaking about Mars, we should probably move on to discuss the red planet. It is a a hot topic as of late. I think it's fair to say a lot of people have been talking about it,

41:47

Speaker A

including yourselves. Uh rewinding the clock a little bit though, I think we should go back to start with Mars sample return and then we can move on to talk about the Mars telecommunications orbiter because at least from your

41:59

Speaker A

perspective they kind of feed into one another. So starting with Mars sample return, you guys obviously uh or NASA did that request for proposals because they want to move to a more you know cost-effective uh commercial approach to

42:13

Speaker A

do Mars sample return. Rocket Lab is of course one of the companies offering a solution to NASA. In your opinion, how important is it to get Mars samples back to Earth for like full-on scientific analysis considering there's a little

42:27

Speaker A

bit of a a a time time is ticking because, you know, some people want to be landing humans on Mars and as soon as humans land on Mars, the planet's a bit contaminated. So, how important is it in

42:37

Speaker A

your opinion to get those samples back pretty much ASAP? Well, I mean, look, I think everybody knows I have a real passion for planetary science and, you know, the big question I'm trying to ask with the Venus project is is, you know, is life

42:50

Speaker A

unique to Earth or is life uh not exclusive to Earth? And it's it's evolved elsewhere. So, um you know, with the recent kind of discovery of of some some interesting rocks on Mars, uh I think it just highlights the fact that

43:02

Speaker A

man, we just need to get there and answer this question and and bring those samples home. Um so, I I think it's it's tremendously important. Um, I think there's there's probably, you know, half a dozen Nobel Priest prizes just just

43:14

Speaker A

sitting on the surface of Mars right now. Um, and uh, you know, the science the scientific discovery that that's available through those samples is enormous. And I think people mischaracterize this those samples as as just some rocks from Mars. They're not.

43:30

Speaker A

They're like carefully carefully selected um scientific treasure troves um that that not only will give us some insight and discovery into into Mars but the universe. So um you I don't know just having them just sitting there on

43:44

Speaker A

the surface ready to go just seems seems just so frustrating. We just need to get them back here to Earth and get them in a lab and start unlocking some of these secrets of of both Mars and the

43:54

Speaker A

universe. I think that is that is that's just really really important. Yeah, of course.

44:00

Speaker A

uh of so you uh Rocket Lab draws a lot of experience because of the the various companies you have been acquiring over the years but as Rocket Lab as a whole you haven't really completed a mission like Mars sample return in terms of the

44:17

Speaker A

scope the scale I mean it's a mass sample return no matter how many it's I I I know but Mar sample return it's a no matter what way you do mass sample return it's a complex mission So yeah, what are some of the biggest risks

44:34

Speaker A

to conducting such a mission in your opinion? Literally, you know, going down to the surface of Mars and then returning those samples to Earth.

44:44

Speaker A

Well, I think I think you you have to you have to look at the elements that haven't been demonstrated before, right?

44:49

Speaker A

Um, you know, it's been demonstrated you can land on Mars. Not easy, but but uh it's it's been demonstrated successfully you can you can do that. But obviously it's demonstrated you can orbit Mars and you can you can measure all those kinds

45:00

Speaker A

of things. What hasn't been de demonstrated is is launching off Mars and uh and and that that is that is non-trivial. Um but I guess I sit back and and I think well if I'm a Martian um and I'm sitting there and looking back

45:15

Speaker A

at Earth and and going well uh who's the best at building little little rockets for launching off little planets? Um it probably is Rocket Lab. So, you know, if you look at the most unproven, most complex element of the mission, I think

45:29

Speaker A

we're we're in pretty good spot to give that a crack. Um, you know, uh, Electron is is a is an incredibly unique vehicle.

45:38

Speaker A

I mean, it's it's it's payload mass fraction is really high for a small vehicle and, um, you know, we we've we've got that got that kind of down pat. So, um, so that you know, I don't want to trivialize the mission because

45:50

Speaker A

it is it is non-trivial. Um, but you know, the most complic complicated uh, you know, element that hasn't been demonstrated, I think we're pretty good at.

46:03

Speaker A

And uh, this is a this is I I will admit this is a little bit of a cheeky question. Uh, but you have the private mission to Venus planned. If for whatever reason, and I'll just leave it at that, Mars sample return doesn't go

46:15

Speaker A

ahead from NASA's perspective, and we'll put that to one side. Um, is Rocket Lab at all interested in doing a private Mars sample return, assuming you of course have the permission to go and collect the samples which have been

46:28

Speaker A

deposited on the surface of Mars? Is that something you would endeavor to do, do it by yourself or maybe do a a a group of companies coming together to go and retrieve these samples, bring them back for scientists here on Earth? Man,

46:39

Speaker A

I get in trouble for just, you know, spending a little bit of company money on Venus, let alone like like spending I don't think I could I think I'd get fired as a CB CEO if I spent billions of

46:50

Speaker A

dollars of of shareholder money trying to get samples back off Mars. Um but uh look, I mean, if there was ever a you know, a private endeavor, um then of course, you know, we're not not afraid to do those kinds of things. Um but uh

47:03

Speaker A

but yeah but I think you know Mar sample return is is the perfect example of of a you know why why governments do science because there's there is there is no commercial justification for doing it.

47:17

Speaker A

It's 100% a scientific human good justification. So I think for a commercial company to justify doing that is is is is much you know at that scale is is is is you know very very difficult.

47:30

Speaker A

100% 100%. And uh I think we should move on to talking about the Mars telecommunications orbiter because that was of course a part of your proposal for your Mars sample return architecture. But since that point we of course seen in the reconciliation bill

47:47

Speaker A

the uh uh long forgotten should I say originally a plan from the early 2000s then cancelled I believe in 2005. It's been brought back. Uh the uh current US administration is uh providing $700 million for a Mars telecommunications

48:03

Speaker A

orbiter. You are very interested in the MTO from from all of the things we've been seeing on social media. I think it's fair to say, but you're not the only company dedicating a lot of your current social media output to a Mars

48:17

Speaker A

telecommunications orbiter. There hasn't been any official request from NASA for a Mars telecommunications orbiter.

48:23

Speaker A

Why are you so interested in the MTO? I mean, yeah. Why why MTO? Why are you so interested in it? And why are you kind of why? Yeah. Why why are you dedicating so much to your current public outreach to

48:35

Speaker A

to to advertising MTO? Well, so there's a couple of things there. So, um firstly, uh you know, as you as you point out, MTO was part of our our um m sample return architecture and nothing happens without communications, great communications.

48:52

Speaker A

And uh you know obviously this administration has has a strong desire to put a a footprint on Mars. Um and you're not going to put a footprint on Mars until you have uh you know high bandwidth reliable communications

49:03

Speaker A

prolific you know communications on the surface of Mars. Um you know the the saying pixel it didn't happen is is is incredibly relevant here. So um you know that that needs to be that that that reliable infrastructure. So um you know

49:18

Speaker A

I know a lot of people have given up on mass sample return. I I'll never give up on Mars sample return. So getting one critical element there um is is really important and you know the MTO is a

49:29

Speaker A

critical element um to to Mars sample return. It's also you know equally as critical element uh for human uh human landings on the planet and it has to be there before the humans human human landing on the planet anyway. So um you

49:44

Speaker A

know our our approach here and our architecture is is kind of like a it's a it's an aerosynchronous orbit or kind of think of it like a geo geostationary orbit around Mars um and uh and you know high bandwidth uh communications

49:56

Speaker A

obviously down to the surface um but also uh you know laser coms back to uh back to Earth um and that that's what needs to happen um to to get that that kind of you know reliable and high

50:08

Speaker A

bandwidth comm uh comm link back uh you know back back to Earth. So um you know our architecture is not a like a proliferated low earth low Mars orbit architecture because you know the um the delay time from Mars to Earth is such

50:23

Speaker A

that you know you don't need the the kind of you know really really quick surface to surface to satellite um um you know delay times that you need on Earth obviously for doing different things. So, so we think we think that

50:36

Speaker A

architecture is good, but um you like I just see it as like step one like are we going to go and collect the samples off the surface of m surface of Mars? Step one Mars telecommunication orbiter. Are we going to land somebody on Mars? Step

50:48

Speaker A

one Mars telecom communication orbiter. So um so that that's why I'm I'm I'm kind of you know passionate and serious about it. Like if if we're going to seriously do these things, you know, it's it's kind of like let's put the

51:02

Speaker A

wheels on the car. and those links between Earth and Mars. Very long way takes a little bit of time because of physics to get those communication links between Earth and Mars.

51:15

Speaker A

What are you planning to actually use as the medium for communicating? Is it going to be radio? Are you looking at optical like we've been seeing? What is How do you want to be able to actually shout back to Earth and get those

51:27

Speaker A

communications in place between the two planets? Yeah. So I mean um obviously you can have a traditional RF link um that is a you know obviously a big burden on DSN um and uh um and you know that that's

51:40

Speaker A

obviously obviously proven um you know we're starting to to to know quite a bit about optical coms these days um and uh you know there has been some successful demonstrations of deep space optical coms so I think look the gold standard

51:52

Speaker A

here would be um would be a you know laser optical relay link um that would be um that would be the gold standard for for maximum bandwidth and kind of, you know, unbburdening uh DSN.

52:05

Speaker A

Uh, and speaking of the DSN, do you plan to rely on the DSN or are you going to be doing your own uh uh relays back to Earth or because the deep the deep space network, I think it's fair to say it has

52:16

Speaker A

a lot of clients right now. Um, so more capacity would be nice. I think they would say, do you say you don't want to burden the DSN, but you know, are you going to be doing your own communications back down to Earth? Are

52:28

Speaker A

you going to be still working with the DSN? How's that going to be working?

52:32

Speaker A

Yeah, look, I mean, in some respects, this is this is up to the customer right up to NASA as well. I mean, to they they have they have we we can, you know, we can wave our hands and all we want, but

52:42

Speaker A

but ultimately, you know, this is this is a service for a customer. Excuse me. So, um, so it'll depend a little bit on on what what those requirements are. But, you know, sort of blue sky architecture, I mean, we think,

52:55

Speaker A

you know, an optical relay link is is is by far, you know, that solves all of the problems to your point. It it unbburdens DSN and um and you can have a a relatively, you know, boring and simple

53:07

Speaker A

um RF link um you know, back to Earth if needed be or you know, even even look for for optical comms right back to surface.

53:15

Speaker A

Yeah. And I think it's fair to ask the question of what actually makes Rocket Lab in your opinion the best qualified provider to provide this service to NASA should they want it? You know what what is Rocket Lab's thing that would set it

53:33

Speaker A

apart? Your architecture, what would set it apart from the other things being discussed? Because we have, of course, your Mars telecommunications proposal, which is just one satellite in Mars orbit. We have uh other people proposing constellations of satellites, some with

53:47

Speaker A

more satellites, some with less satellites. What makes your what makes Rocket Lab and what makes your architecture the best to serve a a MTO role for NATA?

53:58

Speaker A

Yeah. Well, I mean that that's a that's a loaded question. Um because uh of course we're going to say ours is best.

54:04

Speaker A

Um but objectively, if you if you stand back and you go, well, it's hard to get to Mars. So putting a a a low orbiting constellation that requires replenishment every five years is probably not a good plan. Um because

54:18

Speaker A

it's hard to get there. It's expensive to get metal there. So um so that's why we like the architecture of something in very high Earth orbit that's got a you know 10 20 30 year lifetime, right? Um you don't want to be doing that um uh

54:31

Speaker A

you know replenishing those kind of assets. you want them to just sit there and just, you know, go forever. Um cuz it's, like I say, it's it's a long time to get there. So, so I think I think,

54:41

Speaker A

you know, the architecture that we have is is unique. Um I think um uh you know, we have um some some very unique expertise in things like optical coms and and stuff now. Um that that I think um we can we can solve some of those

54:54

Speaker A

problems. And look, we're no stranger to Mars. I mean, um, you know, as you alluded to, uh, you know, through some of our acquisitions, we we have a tremendous amount of hardware sitting on Mars. Um, I think we have the most

55:05

Speaker A

amount of, you know, solar power on Mars, um, out of any out of any company right now. And we've got two spacecraft, Escapade, that are that are on on the on their way to Mars later this year. Um,

55:16

Speaker A

so, you know, we we're not strangers to building uh spacecraft that that uh you can obviously transit and and operate in in and around Mars for long periods of time. So, I think there's there's a good level of experience. I think there's a

55:28

Speaker A

good level of architecture. This is starting to sound sound like a sales pitch, so we should stop. But, um, I think I think I think you get the idea.

55:36

Speaker A

I think I think um I think it's a a project that's well suited to us.

55:41

Speaker A

Yeah. And of course, as you said, if this were to go ahead, this would be Rocket Lab providing a service to NASA.

55:47

Speaker A

But I'm just wondering if you have any kind of uh uh just thinking ahead, any kind of inkling as to whether this would be a bespoke platform. Rocket Lab of course has a lot of experience building satellite platforms. Uh you we spoke

56:00

Speaker A

earlier about how there's some like literally electron parts that are going into neutron. Are you going to be doing something similar for a Mars telecommunications orbiter or would it be, you know, completely bespoke? Everything's brand new. You know, it's a Mars

56:11

Speaker A

telecommunications orbiter. This hasn't been done before. No. I mean, in in the president's budget, it has to be awarded by 26 and launched by 28. So, there's no there's no opportunity there to to to do, you know, something crazy like the the way

56:25

Speaker A

you can you can operate and turn around a a complicated spacecraft in that time frame is to take stuff that you've got.

56:32

Speaker A

So, you know, it's it's a you know, derivative of our, you know, Explorer bus. um it uses some Pioneer bus parts and of course it's a communications platform so that uses some of the lightning you know bus um stuff. So

56:44

Speaker A

we're in a unique scenario where you know we've got enough platforms and enough components in house that you know it's it's it's literally go to the Rocket Lab catalog and start selecting the bits out of it that you want um and

56:56

Speaker A

uh and and and start putting them together. So, you know, we've got we've kind of got to that point now of scale within the company that there's very very few things that we don't have that we can just um that can we just go and

57:07

Speaker A

pull off the shelf. I love the idea of engineers walking around the factory with a huge thick paper catalog just going through, oh, what do we need for a master? Let's have one of them. One of them pick it off the

57:17

Speaker A

shelf. Yeah. Brilliant visual. Well, it's I mean it's it's it's pretty much the reality. I mean, there's that that's that's that's where we're at right now.

57:26

Speaker A

Yeah. And uh very briefly, I believe we have one more question from the chat. So I'll throw it back over to Sawya uh who has been uh keeping an eye reading all the questions and comments. What have you got Sawyer?

57:36

Speaker A

Yeah, definitely. Um so PM Rusty saying Rocket Lab has indicated they may look at partnerships into the foray into commercial constellations for their own space applications. Are there any partnership ideas under consideration?

57:51

Speaker A

And is that still something that you're looking into is being able to kind of do that joint infrastructure to better benefit Rocket Labs Mars endeavors?

58:02

Speaker A

Um, is it is it that question specific just to Mars or is it specific to like in in in general?

58:09

Speaker A

Uh, it was originally for Mars, but if there's other Yeah, if there's other ones too that you want to mention, you can.

58:14

Speaker A

No, no, no, no. That would get me in trouble. Um so uh so so no from a Mars perspective uh you know um you know obviously we'll partner with folks like like JPL who have um who have a lot of

58:27

Speaker A

experience operating in and um in Mars and and uh so so those kinds of things but um but with respect to kind of other you know commercial entities um no I think we've got everything we need to to

58:38

Speaker A

be able to uh to do that that particular project. And is the goal to kind of stick with the one Mars telecommunication orbiter or as you get more confident and get more things sent over to Mars to kind of

58:50

Speaker A

expand that network a bit? Yeah, I mean I think I think it would uh it would be great to have a you know two or three of them. Um that that that would be great. But uh but I mean you

59:02

Speaker A

know what we're focused on and I think what's important is like how do you get max how do you how do you like saturate the planet in maximum coms uh for the for the longest period of time for the

59:13

Speaker A

lowest price. I mean that that's that's what's relevant here. So um you know we we can have kind of grand ambitions of of of you know proliferating um you know Mars with with uh comm's spirits but the reality is that um you know the most

59:28

Speaker A

sensible thing to do is is start with a uh you know a very long uh longevity kind of designed and and operational um spacecraft to just like I say just saturate the service with with coms.

59:42

Speaker A

Fantastic. Thank you so much again for your time Ryan. and I'll throw it back to you.

59:48

Speaker A

Yeah. Uh I will say during the show I did get a message and that message said that we will like as a confirmation before the first launch of Neutron we will make sure there is an electron launch in the NSF intro. So hopefully

60:02

Speaker A

that satis that will be satisfactory to your desire to get some rocket action in the NSF intro.

60:08

Speaker A

There you go. There you go. Personally I think it it reflects more poorly on you guys than me but there you go.

60:15

Speaker A

Well, thank you very much. We always appreciate viewer feedback. So, thank you very much, Peter Beck. Thank you very much for coming on the show. It's been wonderful talking to you as always.

60:23

Speaker A

It's uh Yeah, it's brilliant to see what you guys are up to right now over at Rocket Lab. And fingers crossed it's a very exciting next couple of years coming up.

60:30

Speaker A

Awesome. Thanks very much, guys. Always love talking to you. It's awesome. And of course, thank you to Sawyer as well for joining me answering all or asking all of the questions from the chat room as well. Thank you very much,

60:42

Speaker A

Sawyer. Absolutely appreciate all the questions and very much appreciate your time once again, Peter. Thank you.

60:48

Speaker A

No, I love it. Thanks, guys. Cheers. And of course, thanks to Jay in the background pushing all the buttons, producing today's show. With that, my name's been Ryan Kaitton. Thank you very much for joining us, and we will see you

60:58

Speaker A

next time. Bye-bye. And here we go. We have lifted off. Propulsion continues to be harder.

61:17

Speaker A

RCA chamber pressure looks good. Power supply. [Music] It's orange. Oh my god. Oh my god.

61:42

Speaker A

Put that in the big bag. 343 unfolds to go and we rise together. Back to the moon and beyond.

61:55

Speaker A

There's nothing to be igniting in the flare. Correct. Yikes. We don't need any more of these.

Topics: Rocket Lab Sir Peter Beck Electron rocket Neutron rocket Mars exploration Mars sample return Mars telecommunications orbiter rocket recovery space missions NASA Spaceflight

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