**Older Than Göbekli Tepe? Discoveries in Turkey | Matt LaCroix | Think Tank | E70 — Transcript & Summary | SozAI**
Source: https://sozai.app/transcript/older-than-gobekli-tepe-discoveries-turkey/

Exploring ancient sites in Turkey possibly older than Göbekli Tepe, revealing new insights into ancient mathematics, archaeology, and global connections.

## Key Takeaways

- Some newly discovered sites in Turkey might be older than Göbekli Tepe, challenging established timelines.
- Ancient mathematical knowledge may have origins earlier than previously thought, requiring re-evaluation.
- Collaboration between diverse experts enriches understanding and bridges gaps between mainstream and alternative research.
- The documentary showcases global connections in ancient architecture and symbolism, linking Turkey, Peru, and other locations.
- There is still much to uncover in ancient history, with many stories yet untold beyond well-known sites.

## What the video covers

- Exploration of new archaeological sites in eastern Turkey that may predate Göbekli Tepe.
- Discussion on the potential origins of mathematical concepts like the Pythagorean theorem predating Babylonian knowledge.
- Observations of stonework, symbols, and evidence of ancient catastrophes linked to the Younger and Older Dryas periods.
- Comparison of basalt stone walls in Turkey with those at Coricancha, Peru, suggesting untold ancient stories.
- Documentary production involving collaboration between archaeologists, researchers, and experts from multiple disciplines.
- Filming conducted across five countries with a large team including archaeologists, geologists, sacred geometry experts, and historians.
- Inclusion of underwater discoveries and diverse expertise to build a comprehensive narrative.
- Emphasis on collaboration over competition between mainstream archaeology and alternative researchers.
- The project aims to bring together different perspectives to challenge and expand current paradigms in ancient history.
- The documentary is ongoing with Cambodia as the final filming location, promising further revelations.

## Chapters

1. 00:00 Introduction and Exploration of New Sites in Turkey
2. 03:09 Reflections on the Trip and Initial Impressions
3. 05:54 Experts and Collaborators in the Documentary
4. 08:32 Symbolism, Rituals, and Cultural Connections
5. 11:06 Advanced Stonework and Archaeological Observations
6. 17:22 Geological Evidence and Vitrification of Stones
7. 20:14 Temple Discoveries and Symbolic Artifacts
8. 28:18 Acoustic Resonance and Site Analysis
9. 31:35 Unfinished Stories and Future Exploration
10. 47:07 Invitation to Participate and Closing Remarks

Answers

## Questions about this video

Are the newly discovered sites in Turkey older than Göbekli Tepe?

The video explores the possibility that some newly discovered sites in eastern Turkey could be older than Göbekli Tepe, which challenges current archaeological timelines.

What is the significance of the basalt stone walls mentioned in the video?

The basalt stone walls in Turkey resemble those found at Coricancha in Peru, suggesting a possible global connection in ancient construction techniques and symbolism.

How does the documentary approach collaboration between different researchers?

The documentary emphasizes collaboration between mainstream archaeologists and alternative researchers to overcome paradigm conflicts and create a more comprehensive understanding of ancient history.

## Full Transcript — Download SRT & Markdown

00:00

Speaker A

Such a great time in Turkey exploring several new sites that are quite intriguing and begging the question: are some of these even potentially older than Göbekli Tepe?

00:15

Speaker A

Could we be predating even Babylonian understandings of mathematics and the Pythagorean theorem? Like, are we looking at origins of certain mathematical understandings that have to be re-evaluated?

00:32

Speaker A

Again, we see evidence of catastrophes that are very reminiscent of things that happened during the Younger and Older Dryas. Stonework, the type of stone, how it was done, the same symbols across the world, evidence of disasters.

00:45

Speaker A

Now, all of the cuneiform is evenly spaced for all of the blocks, like if you were going to write a book and you would keep evenly spacing as you're writing, except for these anomalous places in the block.

00:54

Speaker A

You know, as we scaled up that hillside and you look at stone walls that are made of basalt that look literally identical to Coricancha, Peru. So, I feel like this is yet another example of a story yet untold.

01:15

Speaker A

[Music] Matt Lacroy, what a pleasure to have you here on Think Tank yet again. And we've just finished this fantastic trip to Turkey together. And for those of you that don't know, Matt is an explorer extraordinaire. He's an author. We're

01:33

Speaker A

going to talk about his book as well. He's someone who has a high degree of passion for all things ancient and for cracking codes just like me. So that's why we have so much fun together.

01:46

Speaker A

And we had such a great time in Turkey exploring several new sites that are quite intriguing and begging the question: are some of these even potentially older than Göbekli Tepe? And this new show, I'm going to let

02:04

Speaker A

you basically talk about what this documentary film is going to be all about and the title that you've chosen, which I think is epic. It's all about the lost key, and we're going to talk about that today. So Matt, welcome

02:18

Speaker A

to Think Tank. Thanks, Robert. It's great to be back. The first show we were doing was just a little bit of branching into what we're talking about now. But of course, going on that trip together, I have to say, Robert, I think that, like to me, the

02:33

Speaker A

best word for it is that was epic. Going, having all those amazing conversations with you, all breaking down what we had seen each day and then using the archetype program, right? Architect.

02:45

Speaker A

Architect. Yes. Yeah, architect to basically go through and analyze and ask it what we had seen, but also based on what our observations were to see how close it was. But then, of course, being on site

02:57

Speaker A

with you and exploring and finding things. Like, we found artifacts carved into stone and symbols, and it was epic, Robert. It really was.

03:09

Speaker A

It was a fun trip. We had a great time, and I mean, I didn't know what it was going to be like to be all the way out there in eastern Turkey in Van, which was, you know, it was a trip. It

03:21

Speaker A

was definitely an adventure for sure, and I can't wait to share this with everyone here on this call because I think there's going to be so much stuff that comes off of this trip and not only this trip but also your

03:33

Speaker A

trips to Peru, Peru, which started on the trip that we went on together. Yeah.

03:38

Speaker A

On the trip to Peru last year. I'm going to be going back to Peru very soon.

03:42

Speaker A

You're going off to Angkor Wat and Cambodia, which is going to be an amazing addition to this story. So, it's an emerging story. So, tell us about the vision for this program and this incredible production

03:59

Speaker A

that you've put together. Thanks, Robert. It's been a long time in the making. And when I say a long time, just a little under two years. And for anyone who has never been part of a production like this, the vision was

04:16

Speaker A

that I wanted to create something that brought people together, not just researchers, but also academics. I've always felt that the way that we can move forward is not competing with one another, right? Archaeologists competing with alternative researchers and butting

04:35

Speaker A

heads because they don't agree with dating, and there's a paradigm that is like a wall, right? Like, what's the point of fighting? I really felt like what would be the most powerful message is having a collaboration. And so as

04:47

Speaker A

things grew and different people became involved and you got a chance to meet Martin Young, who was a very special person in my life that allowed this to blossom. More and more people kept joining. Before we knew it, the

05:01

Speaker A

documentary currently has three archaeologists in it, and I thought that was really special. They join at different intervals too. So you got a chance to spend a good amount of time with Omar Tanurick when we were in

05:16

Speaker A

Turkey, who was an actual archaeologist at Kev Klesi. So what the vision was, and I never imagined it would end up the way that it did though, is it was just an idea. It's like, you know, maybe I can get

05:29

Speaker A

a couple people from different areas to work with me on this. And little did I know, but it just kept growing. I mean, we have arguably one of the most famous, if not the most famous, geologists in the

05:40

Speaker A

world, Dr. Robert Shock, and you are arguably one of the best polymath sacred geometry experts in the world, and you're on it as well. And of course, we have many other people, you know, Lydia and Arturo Pon Leon. They do a lot of geobiology,

05:54

Speaker A

sacred geometry stuff. We have Hans Orheim, another archaeologist, Jennifer Deo, another archaeologist. We have Paul Wallace, that you got a chance to spend time with, biblical ancient history expert. And we have, you know, this huge group of people that

06:12

Speaker A

have come together and others as well. I didn't even mention Tossen Jaylen, who is a diver that went underwater and discovered the underwater ruins. And so there's a huge amount of people, and there's people on the periphery of that

06:22

Speaker A

as well that help, like Saba is a great guide, right? There's so many people involved in this, and I feel very honored that it has turned out like it has. I mean, when we went to Turkey, the logistics behind this, and I want to lay

06:38

Speaker A

it out, is this documentary is in five countries. Five countries. It has 11 experts. Okay. We have filmed four out of the five countries. So we have one left, and that's Cambodia. But it has been a huge success. It has been

06:57

Speaker A

actually better than I even imagined. I mean, doing it was great production, I have to say.

07:03

Speaker A

Yeah. I mean, there was probably close to 40 people as part of this production crew.

07:09

Speaker A

It was a big group. So, I mean, this is like a serious project. I've been in several, you know, documentaries that have been high professionalism and have, you know, won awards and all that. And this was definitely right up

07:23

Speaker A

there with the best. Hi, we're here at Machu Picchu. We're super excited. It's our last day.

07:32

Speaker A

Bummer, but we've had an incredible week. It's been filled with magic. I can't even believe how much magic we've all experienced at Ollantaytambo.

07:41

Speaker A

Yesterday, we had this incredible rainbow. We were doing this prayer about the rainbow body and everything for the last several days. And then we ended up with this full rainbow, like a rainbow bridge. And I didn't even

07:53

Speaker A

know it. And then last night, we had scheduled a dinner and a special show for the new moon. It was an indigenous show. It was done by the local Incas, and the name of the restaurant we were at was Children of

08:07

Speaker A

the Rainbow Bridge, which has been really funny because the whole week we've been talking about Rama and Sita and the story of the Ramayana. And even when we were, you know, at Inti Raymi, we stopped and told the story up there for

08:21

Speaker A

quite a long time. So it was all incredibly symbolic. It also made sense why we had all the, when we discovered all the elephants, everything were all wearing these ponchos, all different colors. So, rainbow has been

08:32

Speaker A

the theme here for sure. And it's just been magic, magic, magic. Yesterday also, we did for the first time a maraba.

08:41

Speaker A

We did a maraba prayer activation on top of a lent of the

08:56

Speaker A

12 in each uh triangle basically situated in a maraba and then we had a circle of all the rest of the people around totaling 60 people so 36 people in the circle it was pretty incredible yeah thank you we have an amazing team I

09:11

Speaker A

want to I can you know call out like Brandon Tom and Mike like those guys doing all the experience they have on TV and and documentaries like they are just awesome and when you work with a really good crew and you have experience with

09:24

Speaker A

them, that's how you can really create magical moments because you're not That raises the bar.

09:30

Speaker A

It really does. And I I'm very thankful for everyone involved. And like you, Robert, like that was super seamless like just coming in and out of exploring these things and then talking about them. But that was going on Turkey with

09:42

Speaker A

you. And I think the reason why and maybe and please comment on this but for me the Vaughn region is an unknown place. It doesn't have any tourism. It doesn't have infrastructure in ways that you would expect.

09:55

Speaker A

When we were at Kelesi it was pretty shocking when the the when the mayor of of the whole town next door, you know, basically came to welcome us and everything. It was uh it was unusual, let's say. Yes, it what it's really

10:10

Speaker A

unusual and it's a big deal what we're doing there and we're showing the world.

10:14

Speaker A

Archaeological sites are the some of the newest that have ever been found, but also unknown like most people have never heard of them or seen them. And tell me how you felt the difference of these sites like say in Egypt or in Peru or

10:27

Speaker A

Bolivia compared to this in terms of how there was no fences and you could find things and like that whole feeling there. Robert, did you feel that?

10:35

Speaker A

Oh yeah. Yeah, I mean, first of all, these were open archaeological dig sites. I mean, I've been to open dig sites in Egypt. I've been to open dig sites also in Peru, but this was like and even in in Brazil, but this felt

10:50

Speaker A

very different. It it was like you're on the cutting edge. I mean, the people that were working at those sites, a lot of them have deep, deep questions as to the age of these places because it doesn't really

11:06

Speaker A

make sense with a certain version of a a mainstream call it story and and it has a lot of echoes of a lot of the other places we've been to around the world, Peru, Mexico, you know, where you can

11:20

Speaker A

see there's consistency. at KEF Kalesi, I was like literally blown away and also at Ianis, you know, as we scaled up that hillside and you look at stone walls that are made of basaltt that look literally identical to

11:38

Speaker A

Corona Peru. Um I I was like literally blown away. I love that. I I love that you had that impression because that's the impression that I have always had. And so when I bring other experts and people that have

11:54

Speaker A

traveled around the world and they have that kind of impression and feeling, it really makes me very brings a lot of joy to my heart because it shows so many other people are are feeling and the same thing that I am.

12:08

Speaker A

Oh, absolutely. And I I got the I had the opportunity to go to Gbeclet right before I met up with you in uh in in Vaughan. And that was amazing too because you know having gone there I immediately kind of noticed this

12:25

Speaker A

astrological correlation with enclosure D. And then I started realizing, wait, these are the same symbologies that keep showing up. And they showed up at Ionis as well, whether they were the T-illars and and the the shapes that were

12:40

Speaker A

basically leading to maybe some ancient writing even. And then in addition, the four symbols that show up in biblical times in Ezekiel, which is the the lion, the the the bull, Yeah.

12:54

Speaker A

the man, and the eagle. uh all of which you basically find prominently displayed at places like Ionianis which were you know these reliefs etched into the wall or cut carved into the basalt and I can't even imagine how beautiful

13:09

Speaker A

it would have been with that black basult and gold inlay uh when it was original but I I I definitely came away from that place feeling like this is not um a story about I I felt like the Aratian work that was

13:27

Speaker A

there uh was kind of obvious. It was kind of like when I was in Peru and looking at Incan work versus some prec cataclysmic work which was much much larger stones much harder difficult to cut stones which are higher mo scale and

13:44

Speaker A

and you're seeing the exact same thing here. So I I feel like this is yet another example of a story yet untold, at least in our timeline, that is begging to be told.

13:58

Speaker A

That's that's really well said. And I appreciate that you recognized those anomalies and those things because you walk right, let's use Ianis as an example. You walk up and the first thing you see are what are called what are

14:10

Speaker A

known as the eastern walls. And you remember Robert, right? It's like crude limestone kind of cut together. And then you're walking along that you're like, "Okay, well that's pretty typical of a lot of crude type of walls." And then you keep going and you get

14:22

Speaker A

around a corner and all of a sudden you see that this spectacular basalt that just like appears and it appears in a way where you can see the Aratians building into it. And yeah, it's it's so obvious that it's advanced

14:37

Speaker A

and sophisticated and part of a completely different time period. And like you mentioned, the Inca were only around 400 years.

14:44

Speaker A

The Urartians were only around about the exact same amount of time. Yeah. 400 years. They never could have culturally developed the means to even be able to create, move, or or shape those. It's not even enough time, is it?

14:57

Speaker A

No. And and also like you could see where the Artian worksmanship was there, whether it was in limestone or mud brick. And and the you definitely could see those. And yet you would look at the basalt walls as if they were stopped like

15:13

Speaker A

midflow like like literally they're done perfectly up to a certain level and then just stopped right so I I kind of really wonder what is this place and and it's whatever it is has real echoes from around the globe

15:32

Speaker A

and we find the same type of stone cutting etc these gigantic blocks and very difficult to cut blocks and basult in particular is ferromagnetic.

15:43

Speaker A

So why did they use this basult in all these places? Because of its ferroagnetism? Is it because of its resonance properties? Like are these buildings actually operating like giant speakers? This is really the big questions that I have coming away from

16:00

Speaker A

here. I echo those as well. It seems highly sophisticated, harmonic, energetic. And like you're mentioning how the walls just sort of begin and then or stop.

16:15

Speaker A

We see evidence at all these sites of catastrophes. And I mean huge catastrophes in ancient times, deep antiquity. Like give me an example. When you walk into the Holy Temple of Ionis, do you remember, Robert, the floors, the

16:30

Speaker A

al the golden calisite alabaster floors? Yeah. Mhm. They're like this thick. Beautiful, right? This golden color. And you walk in and you'll notice though the area that's in front where the sun would come in all the way to the altar is

16:46

Speaker A

milky instead. Heat has severely affected it coming in. And that's just one example of many other places pitting and weathering, but extreme damage like vitrification like we identified at Keeplesi. So there's evidence of enormous catastrophes. And that's actually

17:02

Speaker A

And how much what's the temperature have to be to make vitrification on basaltt, right? It's like 1500 degrees Celsius.

17:10

Speaker A

Yes. Yeah. Exactly. It this is not a normal like lightning. No, this is an event that has to do with probably an extreme plasma strike or a volcanic eruption or something.

17:22

Speaker A

Yeah. Yeah. I mean, it was obvious you could find the vitrification on several of the rocks, several of the blocks there. And and we kept finding it all over. And to me, the whole thing also all these Haldi temples. Haldi

17:38

Speaker A

immediately, you know, when you start looking up the history of Haldi, what is Haldi? It it it brings up connection right online, you'll find this to Hike, which was supposed to be the founder of the Armenian uh civilization.

17:53

Speaker A

And hike is directly associated as is Haldi with Orion constellation which is yet another thing because here we have we were in together in Peru and it was Verocha right in Mexico it's Kukan and Ketaquad right it in the Scandi Scandinavian

18:10

Speaker A

tradition it's Odin right you've got Osiris in Egypt the great mono myth Orion and Artemis and then Rama and Suta Vishnu yeah absolutely so this same story keeps showing up over and over and over again.

18:24

Speaker A

And Haldi is exactly that. And then I was pretty blown away to notice that you have these Susi temples and the Susi temples seem to be arranged in threes again and we see a lot of symbolism of 369 and the sun cross as well which is

18:40

Speaker A

directly directly related to the prime number pattern. Yeah. No, that and that was something that we came to a connection Robert and I and I remember this moment very well is that we were standing at an elevated place. It was Kev Klesie which what a

18:55

Speaker A

mysterious enigmatic and beautiful site like is I've never seen a site more beautiful in terms of its location but anyway we're walking up and what you find are these types of buttresslike pillars. They're basalt and they they create like a square and there's three

19:10

Speaker A

of them. And so Robert and I were up on this elevated hill and Robert was looking at it and he was mapping it out on like a satellite image and the fact that there are these centered squares there are three exactly three of them

19:23

Speaker A

that stagger their way down the hill and we were looking at it above from observations and we're like that looks like it mimics the three belt stars of Orion. It actually has a similar type of design to teoon or the great py the

19:37

Speaker A

great the giz gizo plateau the three pyramids. Is there another Orion connection with these Susi temples astronomically?

19:45

Speaker A

I believe yes. I absolutely believe yes. And um it's it's it's not really surprising in a way. You know, it's like because this is related to this great mono myth. But I think what would be really great is we've got some images we

20:00

Speaker A

could share with some people and I'm sure people are probably like they'd love to see this stuff.

20:04

Speaker A

Yeah. So if you're okay, let's go ahead and show some of that. Yeah, please. I know Jason has them all um sent over to him. Um if we I don't know if you can pull them up, but yeah,

20:14

Speaker A

we had some really really amazing moments to capture like you said being up at Kev Klesi and having the mayor come right up with all the cameras and like all the and the crew. It was really And then of course the head

20:26

Speaker A

archaeologist there, the head excavator. Um that was that was very cool being welcomed in with such open arms to that region. And even though not all the archaeologists may have agreed with us, it was really exciting to see that they

20:40

Speaker A

still wanted to be a part of the documentary and we of course still represented their voice and their side.

20:45

Speaker A

I think that's the way it's supposed to be. Yeah. Absolutely. Absolutely right. Well, Jason, are you there?

20:53

Speaker A

Yeah. So, this is the moment that we had um I guess this is the we were with the mayor, right? who came um from the town adjacent to Kev Klesie. And uh I'll let you go ahead and explain what what was

21:07

Speaker A

going on in this scene. Yeah. So the person in the blue shirt and the blue jacket that's um in the back is the head excavator of the site.

21:15

Speaker A

And then the person with the suit that's right in sort of in the front of the camera, that's the mayor. And he came up and then they they set up this whole thing. in the whisk of the news media

21:24

Speaker A

and Robert, they actually just released uh a news article about us that just came out yesterday. So, I was looking through that and they were talking all about what we were doing there with the documentary and that the mayor even do

21:36

Speaker A

you remember this moment? He even says on camera, which we didn't expect, that he thinks that this could be older than goep and could change the world and that was a very cool moment.

21:48

Speaker A

Yeah, absolutely. Yeah, this is this is amazing. block that rolled down the the hillside.

21:53

Speaker A

This is what's called a bar relief. It's a giant basically square type of uh structure that has reliefs on it typically. Now, this particular one was heavily damaged and the sides have all fractured and broken off. So, there's no

22:08

Speaker A

longer any symbols on it, but the top is still perfectly flat and you can still see where they carved it and they and they had it. And we know that this is a bobber leaf because of the storage

22:17

Speaker A

museum down below that has them all. And you can see how damaged they are. But what we're doing here that's so important is that this stone of all stones was the one that had the best evidence of vitrification where the

22:30

Speaker A

basalt actually turned into glass on top. And that's what we're basically looking at right now. And here you can see that a lot of these um stone pillars are are severely damaged and strewn everywhere. And in fact, the one that's

22:45

Speaker A

in the back there had to be put together with a crane. So there's there's a lot of evidence of catastrophes here and the reason why the upper one is intact is it was buried. So we have a lot of evidence

22:56

Speaker A

of intentional burying at these sites probably from the Artian time period. But it's very interesting and curious because what we don't find is any evidence of the remaining blocks of the Susi temples. So that is a huge enigma

23:10

Speaker A

that we don't understand what happened to them or where they went. But obviously they're the remnants of what once was here. Uh this is just a head excavator uh at Kev Kallesian and we're just basically he's telling us about the

23:22

Speaker A

history of the site and he's introducing us which was really nice because we got to actually dig and be part of the current excavations there. Like Robert was saying these aren't these aren't tourist places these are active excavation areas. Oh and Shaboo this is

23:36

Speaker A

Shabu Teepe. This is the first place that we went to with Robert and I felt like Robert do you want to talk about uh the pillar and like what the experience at Shàue?

23:46

Speaker A

Yeah, absolutely. So, at Chavastepe, you know, you have uh two of these susi temples. One of them is like almost totally destroyed. The other one is pretty intact and they both have about a, you know, cubic shape or a square

24:04

Speaker A

shape in the floor that you enter into. And the square shape in the center is 14t and 4 in, right? So, 14t 4 in as a square shape. And um I believe that there were three and the third Susi

24:19

Speaker A

temple was actually underneath the uh the the Muslim mosque that was uh basically down the hillside. It would be exactly in the correct position.

24:31

Speaker A

But these are pretty high up on these hilltops. And uh and what we were finding here was the remnants of a lot of blocks that had literally exploded that had perfect 90° angular cuts on them. Now I find it interesting that

24:45

Speaker A

there were really kind of two blocks that we saw that were made of uh that were made predominantly of basaltt and those blocks had large pores and small pores in them. So one was very very heavily porous because probably it has

24:59

Speaker A

different resonance properties and the other one was a lot finer. Now you could see here this is at ionis an ion ionis entry point on the alabaster. Um, and then you go to the altar in the back and

25:12

Speaker A

then you can see the reliefs that are carved into the wall that were originally gold inlays uh that went into this uh this basalt wall.

25:22

Speaker A

Yeah. And this is showing the And here's the altar. Yeah. Go ahead. And the altar is depicting the same again. This is in a temple of Haldi again which is associated directly with Orion. But you could see this griffin

25:37

Speaker A

looking eagle that has legs like a lion as well. Uh you can see as well a man holding what looks to be a uh like a pineal gland or a cone like a pine cone.

25:51

Speaker A

And you can also see tree of life reliefs into this also. Yeah, exactly. And this is uniform. This was your find.

26:01

Speaker A

Go ahead and explain this. Yeah, we should talk about this one. Yeah. Hold here Jason for a little bit.

26:06

Speaker A

I think this is a really important thing because Robert was right there with me as part of this. So when when we're looking at give a little history here when we're looking at the holy temple of Ionis and like Robert was saying you can

26:19

Speaker A

see very clear differences in the Urartian adobe mud brick and limestone versus the other three prominent things that they build with which is the basalt pillars the andesite beautiful andite hume stones when you're entering and then the golden calisite alabaster

26:36

Speaker A

floors and the altar. Now the biggest challenge that we have had no matter what whenever there's a piece is evidence that that is coming to us the biggest challenge is always well it doesn't matter because the Urartian language this cuneaoiform writing tells

26:52

Speaker A

us who built it so we know when it was built that is the number one piece of evidence that is used to date that these were built roughly about 2700 years ago by the Urartian culture by a king named

27:07

Speaker A

Rousa II and now these inscriptions describe that adorning the temple and so supposedly building it or whatever it is. But that is the only piece of evidence that is holding this entire narrative in the Vaughn region from collapsing. Okay. And I knew that there

27:26

Speaker A

had to be evidence that the Kunea form was not original in the Susi temple because because the stonework didn't match the erarchians didn't match the time period. Again, we see evidence of catastrophes that are very reminiscent of things that happened during the

27:40

Speaker A

younger and older dus. Like all of these lost civilization evidence parameters are here, right? The stonework, the type of stone, like how it was done, the same symbols across the world, evidence of disaster. So, we knew, yes, we know that there's a huge

27:58

Speaker A

anomaly here. There's a there's a huge situation that differs from what archaeologists are telling us was your art team. And I knew that there had to be evidence of this. So when we were in the entryway standing there with Robert,

28:11

Speaker A

we're looking at the the Q&A form in the walls and you can't see very well in photographs when it's just zoomed out.

28:18

Speaker A

But when you get up nice and close, we saw we found two anomalous areas. Let me explain why they're anom anomalous.

28:27

Speaker A

The kaoform spacing is done based on the Urartians creating a line a perfect line that they that you can see in the screen where they basically drew across and then wrote right along the right along the top of it. Now all of the kuneao

28:40

Speaker A

form is evenly spaced for all of the blocks like if you were going to write a book and you would you would keep evenly spacing as you're writing except for these anomalous places in the block.

28:51

Speaker A

Now, what you're seeing in front of you circled is what's called pitting. And it's from a an effect of what's called known as weathering. Now, pitting comes from a mineral basically difference in the mineral structure of the stone. So,

29:06

Speaker A

when the stone was originally picked, it likely had nothing on the surface to tell you that there was a weakness there. But over time through maybe extreme events even like CME extreme heat events or freeze and thaw cycles or

29:20

Speaker A

a combination of all of them you get this pitting weathering effect look. Okay. But notice that the KA form is written around it everywhere. Jason go to the next picture to the right. Yes.

29:32

Speaker A

Here's the best picture. Take a look at this Robert. This spot is down to the bottom left of the other original one. Now here you can see very clearly that the only spacing we see of the of the kuneaoiform is

29:46

Speaker A

around these anomalous areas. Now that means why would they do that? Well, it means that they knew that they carve kuneaoiform wedges into that weak area.

29:56

Speaker A

It would break the stone literally shatter the whole outer face of it would have fallen off. And so let's think about it for a moment here. If this was the Artians who built this original structure, which is doesn't make any

30:08

Speaker A

sense and is really doesn't follow anything, but let's just say for a minute it was. And the arts somehow, even though even though they were an iron age culture that had only iron age tools, somehow they were able to cut and

30:20

Speaker A

move these anite blocks and basalt from enormous distances, bring them here, make them perfect, and then of all things in the entryway that's the most holy of holies and sacred of all, where their writing is, why would they have

30:34

Speaker A

left damaged blocks? They could have just turned the block around or used an entirely new block if that damage was pre-existing. It means that the blocks had that damage far before they ever came along. And it means that they found

30:49

Speaker A

this structure and then put their key form in to try to take basically state that they built it and and claim ownership over it, but all the time writing around areas that clearly predated them. Robert, does that make

31:03

Speaker A

sense to you? And do we see something similar in Egypt? I mean definitely it makes sense to me what you're saying. U I mean why if those blocks were damaged from the very beginning they're not going to select those

31:18

Speaker A

blocks. They could have selected any other blocks right if they were going to plan to put kuner form on them. So to me the cunir form is clearly something that came in after the fact. It's it's like uh you know a whoever came and won the

31:33

Speaker A

battle wanted to claim the spot and say that was theirs and so the first thing they're going to do is put a new sign up.

31:41

Speaker A

That's effectively what's happened here. But exactly these were never intended these were never intended if these these uh aspects of the blocks are like this they were clearly never intended to be written over.

31:55

Speaker A

No, those that's the whole point is that as far as I'm aware they didn't have a language. Their language was symbols.

32:02

Speaker A

That was their esoteric language. Then they didn't leave any writings behind which is exactly what we see in Peru.

32:08

Speaker A

Exactly what we see in Bolivia and exactly what we see in Egypt. There are no writings from the original mother culture that built them.

32:15

Speaker A

Totally agree with you. I think you you that's your smoking gun analysis right there. And these were the T-pillars that we found.

32:21

Speaker A

Yeah. that were in the ground that you know make this it look almost like like the shape of pi the symbol of pi that we use in you know mathematics and I was astounded there because you could see

32:35

Speaker A

Robert Shock holding a ruler and the ruler was perfectly fitting into the intersection of this pieshaped pillar and that was kind of mind-blowing because it was exactly 12 in like perfect.

32:48

Speaker A

Yeah. So there was clearly no doubt in my mind, not even off a tiny bit, there was no doubt in my mind that whoever, you know, cut that uh basalt used the foot.

33:02

Speaker A

Yes. As a measurement system. That was a metrology. Could we be predating even Babylonian understandings of mathematics and the Pythagorean theorem? like is are we looking at origins of certain mathematical understandings that that have to be you know re-evaluated?

33:22

Speaker A

I believe so. Absolutely. Let's go to the next one. There's some more Tillars. Let's um just to give a a little bit of information about them and then Robert can talk about some of the other mathematical constants we saw.

33:36

Speaker A

They are five feet long. Okay. Exactly. Exactly five feet long. Exactly two feet at the top and then exactly 12 inches inside, Robert. And because they're basalt and they're fine grain, they weigh somewhere between four and seven tons. So, let's talk about that for a

33:55

Speaker A

minute Robert. Yeah. I mean, I think each one of these, if you go back a slide there, Jason, um, yeah, I mean, the shapes of these were exactly like mind-blowing to me because they were matching what I had just been

34:11

Speaker A

seeing at Gobeclet, which are these T-shaped pillars. And the T-shaped pillars happen to be matching, and this is just my thesis, happen to be matching uh what would be similar to what we would think of as Hebrew letters, but

34:26

Speaker A

they're probably very much predating Hebrew letters of Yod Vave. Uh and this is these are the Hebrew letters that are ascribed to the name of God that shall not be spoken. Now, I find it interesting that you have similar shapes

34:41

Speaker A

that that stand today at Pumapunku in Bolivia. And so, clearly, there must have been, I believe, a prehistory civilization that connected all of these together.

34:53

Speaker A

Yes. Yeah. And Jason, while we're talking about this, if you can keep going to the last photograph and then let's come back after. So, keep going for a minute. Yes. Go back. Go back. So, Robert actually made this. Robert, we

35:07

Speaker A

should like while we're talking, this is a perfect place to describe and show all this. Um, tell us a little bit about this and then we can talk about the one on the left, which is what we found at

35:16

Speaker A

KEF. So, very interesting. Yeah, absolutely. So, these were these T-shaped pillars that we found that have this protrusion on the back side of the basaltt. And we believe that those protrusions on the backside are there for sound acoustics, for resonance.

35:34

Speaker A

Yeah. Yeah. And you can see there's Robert Shock measuring uh exactly 1 foot in the center cut. And you can even see on the sides that they're somewhat tapered that they're coming coming in and there's like a tapering of them as if you're

35:48

Speaker A

making letters. I believe these were actually letters that were sitting on this, you know, either in the temple itself or or adjacent to the temple or on the hillside outside uh the Susi temple, which is where we were. It's

36:01

Speaker A

almost looked like they got pushed over. um by someone who didn't like them there. It's kind of but then didn't want to do go to the effort to get rid of them because they're too damn heavy.

36:13

Speaker A

So, Robert, wasn't that a cool moment though? Like when you walk out on that hillside, right, where you you would never know. There's no signs. There's nothing, right? You walk out on the right in that hillside and they're just

36:26

Speaker A

sticking out of the ground, right? It's out of like some science fiction novel or something of like another planet.

36:30

Speaker A

It's to me it's really bizarre. Oh yeah, absolutely. It was strange for me too, for sure. And you could see there on the left is that block that had rolled down the hill.

36:42

Speaker A

Yeah. And you could see the T-shapes that were all the way through it. This was a small one and there was one next to it that was a much larger one that had partially broken.

36:53

Speaker A

Yeah. So what we what we ended up doing was when you're at Kev Kallesi, there's no native basaltt. Okay. So the line the mountain itself is limestone there. You can actually even find uh shells, ocean, like seashells, which is pretty wild.

37:07

Speaker A

But when you're going up to the top, all of a sudden you see basalt blocks. Now, what we realized, and it was a great moment, like capturing this with Robert, is that's this is what we're talking about with that image, is we realized

37:19

Speaker A

that there was the two different types of basaltt were representing the two different types of things they were cutting them in and using them as, right? So the coarse basalt, like Robert was saying, more like little micro holes, like air bubbles type of basult

37:34

Speaker A

was very deliberately chosen for the pillars at the top. And so anytime you found a broken piece of that kind of coarse basult, you knew where it came from, right? It's like it was like a really fun scavenger hunt. You're like,

37:45

Speaker A

"This piece came from up there." But then we also realized that the fine grain basult were these bobber leaves, these hu the one like we were looking at with the vitrification glass. They're it's fine grain. And so when we're going

37:57

Speaker A

down the slope and we're finding these these fine grain basult, we know that even though some of them didn't have carvings left and they were broken, we knew what they were. And by doing that, Robert and I started turning rocks over.

38:10

Speaker A

So we would we were like turning all because we knew it was that type of fine grain basult. And on camera, we captured turning over a block and it had a whole pillar cut into it that had broken off

38:20

Speaker A

of one of the other ones and had basically never been found before. And so we were finding real history in the field, Robert, weren't we?

38:28

Speaker A

Yeah. Oh, absolutely. Yeah. That's what was so exciting about this trip is that it it had the feeling like this site was alive and Yeah.

38:38

Speaker A

It had been left exactly as it was supposed to have been left. It had been untouched for thousands of years.

38:47

Speaker A

It It really was. It's magical. It's like walking back into time. And the picture on the left, what that comes from is one of the bar release had broken and tumbled down the hill and it's upside down right now. And basic or

39:00

Speaker A

actually I think you already you did flip it, didn't you, in the image. So the block was upside down. I flipped it and basically it had the same pillars and designs and we found a piece of that that had broken off essentially from the

39:12

Speaker A

different areas. So we really were like peeling back into history. And Jason, if you could go back maybe like three images where we were. Keep going. Right there. This is what those coarse basalt pillars looked like, Robert. And we are

39:26

Speaker A

one of the We're the first people to ever film them. They had just uncovered these, right? We were in the middle of an archaeological site here.

39:34

Speaker A

Yeah, absolutely. It was um that was pretty epic because you could see that there were eight of these pillars in a square format around you know this temple site and they all have the same kind of quarters protruding corners protruding and and

39:54

Speaker A

then you know tapered inner se segments and we did you know extensive measurement and everything but you can also see that these blocks are large pores they have large it's a large porous uh bals instead of the fine ones.

40:10

Speaker A

And so they could have chosen different ones if they wanted to keep a particular aesthetic, but they clearly wanted to have these larger porous blocks because they're not going to use those to write things on in particular. Right. Those

40:23

Speaker A

it's just not a thing that's conducive for writing. But I think there's something much deeper about it. It's more about its properties for acoustics.

40:32

Speaker A

Exactly. I I couldn't agree more. like it creates maybe some kind of a harmonic acoustic resonance reaction. And like you were saying, they went to very specific places up on Mount Supupon, the volcano, and you remember how far away

40:46

Speaker A

it was. I mean, you look up at it, you're like, how the heck did they get any stones off of that? And all the way down here, it's 7 km as a crow flies straight, but walking is over 10. And so

40:59

Speaker A

now we're thinking to ourselves, they could have used limestone from the mountain. that's local. They didn't they went enormous distances to get this type of assault, but then the the fine grain one, they don't even know where it came

41:12

Speaker A

from. And so what we're looking at is the fact that the civilization somehow identified and targeted like we need these stones because of their mineralization rubber. Like that's pretty advanced stuff, isn't it? Well, another thing that that really blew my

41:26

Speaker A

mind is that if you go on the backside of of this, right, you could see also where they had placed certain uh basaltt blocks amid the natural formation. So, it's like they would place them every few feet and

41:47

Speaker A

and there was no rhyme or reason as to how they did it or why they did it. They would wedge it in the natural formation.

41:53

Speaker A

Yes. With the wall. Yeah. And And I was kind of like, what what are they doing here? And it felt like it was almost like nodal points again for the acoustic resonance. I don't know. It was uh it's really fascinating

42:08

Speaker A

that that's exactly how I would describe it. It's you're what what Robert's talking about is there's an undocumented wall that's not part of excavation reports and it's basically on the north side and I brought everybody down there because we had found it uh before when I

42:22

Speaker A

was I was hiking around exploring and what he's saying is that of course we're told the narrative that these walls are for defensive purposes but what you see that's so strange and I can send Jason some pictures but you see this very

42:35

Speaker A

weird wall where like Robert was saying there are these cut basalt blocks they're always coarse on that side like these and they're placed into intervals that don't seem to make sense into the limestone bedrock. So all of a sudden

42:50

Speaker A

you'll have a limestone bedrock and there'll be one of these blocks placed into the wall itself organically and then another one just next to it and then maybe another few put together. The nature of it makes no sense in a

43:02

Speaker A

conventional sense of a wall unless there were the entire site was some kind of a like they were bridging the natural energy of the limestone and creating like a singing type of harmonic sensation with it with the basalt like

43:17

Speaker A

you were saying like almost like piano keys. Yeah, absolutely. That's certainly what it seemed like.

43:25

Speaker A

I mean what are we looking at Robert? Like what kind of civilization is this?

43:28

Speaker A

This is a musical harmonic civilization based on sacred understanding of resonance and love correspondence and star constellations and super specifically picked stones that have certain fields. Like Robert, what's going on here?

43:44

Speaker A

I I I mean look there's definitely needs to be a lot more research done and this is a totally new site that's just been dug up and you know along with the walls on the way up to uh Ionis this was kind

43:56

Speaker A

of mind-blowing the the extensive use of basalt and andite seemed to be very strange and very much in line with what we find in so many other places around the world that are full of mystery and anomalous sort of configurations of

44:14

Speaker A

these stones. We don't know. We simply don't know. But I think what it's going to require, and you did the work also to dive to the bottom of uh of of Lake Vaughn.

44:24

Speaker A

Yeah. And look to see what was down there. There's actually a pyramid down there and everything. It's like there is so much more to this story. I think one of the things that I'm hoping this documentary does is that it sheds light

44:35

Speaker A

on this part of Turkey and how there's still so much more yet to be found. And the story isn't really fully told with only Gobecé and Kahanti.

44:45

Speaker A

Yeah, exactly. And the documentary is called The Missing Key and it's going to be basically like a subtitle of exploring humanity's um ancient past.

44:55

Speaker A

And I don't want it to come across as saying, look, this is lost civilization in your face. You have to believe it.

45:01

Speaker A

We're going to stuff it down your throat. What this is is more of an exploration of that question. Okay? So we don't we don't make just definitive statements everywhere. We ask questions.

45:12

Speaker A

Could this be could it lead to is the evidence pointing towards because what we really want to do is we want to have voices from every side. We want yes the traditional archaeological uranian voice still. Why? Because it's important to

45:26

Speaker A

have everyone's perspective. That's what science is. You explore it's the endless pursuit of objectively exploring the truth from every different angle. And so, of course, we're we have that, but we also have people like me who are a

45:39

Speaker A

little more on the extreme end. They're like, "Oh my god, I'm too excited to calm down and actually just lay this out in a calm way, but and then there's people like Dr. Robert Shock who are of course very scientific and are just

45:50

Speaker A

pointing out the evidence and not just throwing out conclusions." But what we overwhelmingly have found is extensive evidence that points towards a much more complex history than just the Urartians of 2,800 years ago. Okay, of 800 BC.

46:07

Speaker A

We're looking at something that is far more complicated and complex than that. And I think something that is pivotal towards the human story and and will have a very significant impact on this paradigm shifting. And I do believe that

46:22

Speaker A

this documentary may have um be a major component that does help finally shift that narrative.

46:29

Speaker A

Awesome. Where can people learn more about your work? Please check out uh the stage of time.com. Lots of updates on what we're doing, where we're going. You can also follow me on YouTube at, you know, Matthew Lacroy and on um Instagram at

46:43

Speaker A

the stage of time. But we are just beginning. We're heading to Cambodia for the for the final editing and then or final filming and then it's going to be of course editing and creating the whole masterpiece with that and I will be in

46:55

Speaker A

the Philippines for a month during that to put this together. So, this is going to be really exciting. And of course, if anybody hasn't, please make sure if you're interested to sign up for also the tour to Lake Vaughn that's in

47:06

Speaker A

September that I have up on the website. And just if you want to be a part of exploring this, I mean, like Robert just was talking about, like you get you get to actually be a part of that. And this

47:15

Speaker A

it's a very exciting place because it won't be like this forever and eventually the world will discover Vaughn and will discover these sites.

47:22

Speaker A

But in the meantime, it's very exciting being on the front end of this and being part of something that's so important and so pivotal. And I want to say, Robert, it was really an honor to have you there and be a part of that journey.

47:35

Speaker A

Like, I got to say it was one of the best week, week, 10 days of my life. It was amazing.

47:41

Speaker A

Yeah, it was a great time. And thank you for the invitation. And kudos to you for putting together such a great team of, you know, experts and Yeah. and people that really brought a lot to the table. Um, you know, the conversations

47:54

Speaker A

at dinner at night were just outstanding. So, it's always great to spend time with people like that and especially getting to know, you know, Paul Wallace better and and and also Robert Shock. I'd already known Robert, but um it was just a great crew.

48:10

Speaker A

It really was. And you added so much to that. I appreciate everything you brought to that. It was it was very cool exploring those sites and seeing everything that came out and seeing everything that emerged and all the discovery components

48:23

Speaker A

of that. It really couldn't have gone better. It was a it was a complex a lot of things to tackle and um to basically balance but it really came together quite well and I was I really h with

48:35

Speaker A

very very happy with how all the filming and everything turned out. Thank you Matt. Well, when is when do you think the film will actually come out?

48:42

Speaker A

The hope is before the end of the year. I want to make sure it's done extremely well. Doesn't have a home yet, but we certainly want to do film festivals and some theatrical releases in certain cities. Um, I hope LA can be one of them

48:54

Speaker A

that you could be there for it. But we essentially want to show the world the magic of what this is and have them fall in love with it. Like I like I'm really hoping they will because this is so much more than just a

49:05

Speaker A

documentary. We're talking heads. This is an adventure into our origins and you get to be on that adventure and explore with us real time and that's what this is all about.

49:16

Speaker A

Great. Well, thank you Matt and uh it's always a pleasure to have you here. I look forward to getting another update from you in the not too distant future and until next week everyone have a wonderful wonderful week. We'll see you

49:27

Speaker A

next week on Think Tank. [Music] [Music]

Topics: Göbekli Tepe ancient Turkey archaeology ancient mathematics Pythagorean theorem stonework basalt walls sacred geometry Younger Dryas documentary

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