**GodLogic Apologetics Vs Andrew Griffin | Trinitarian Vs Unitarian — Transcript & Summary | SozAI**
Source: https://sozai.app/transcript/godlogic-apologetics-vs-andrew-griffin-trinitarian-vs/

A Trinitarian vs. Unitarian debate on whether Scripture presents God as multi-personal, with focus on Yahweh, the Holy Spirit, and the Word in creation passages.

## Key Takeaways

- Both sides appeal to Hebrew grammar and Old Testament passages, but interpret plural forms and the Spirit/Word language differently.
- The Trinitarian argument rests on distinguishing the Father, Word, and Spirit as persons who each perform creation.
- The Unitarian argument emphasizes that Yahweh is a proper personal name and that Scripture uses singular personal reference for God.
- The debate hinges on whether 'Spirit of God' and 'Word of God' denote distinct persons or aspects of one God.

## What the video covers

- Debaters argue whether the Holy Spirit is identified as Yahweh and whether Scripture teaches God is one person or multi-personal.
- The Trinitarian speaker argues plural Hebrew forms like 'makers' (oay) in Job 35:10 and Psalm 149:2 hint at a plurality within God.
- Creation passages (Job 26:13, Job 33:4, Psalm 104:29-30) are cited to attribute creation to the Spirit (ruach) of God.
- Psalm 33:6 is used to present the Word of Yahweh and the Spirit as distinct agents in creation.
- John 1 is cited to argue the Word was with God from eternity and through him all things were made.
- The Unitarian side challenges the argument by questioning whether plural forms are merely majestic plurals or figures of speech.
- The Unitarian side contends that the 'God of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob' refers to one personal God and that Yahweh is a proper personal name borne by one person.
- Discussion addresses whether the Spirit of God is a person or an attribute, and whether Moses, angels, or the Angel of the Lord can be called Yahweh.
- The debaters repeatedly accuse each other of switching arguments and dodging questions, reflecting a heated exchange.
- Both sides appeal to early church fathers such as Justin Martyr to support their positions.

## Chapters

1. 00:00 Opening Dispute Over the Holy Spirit as Yahweh
2. 00:12 Debate Setup and Scripture Authority
3. 02:30 Plural Hebrew Forms for the Creator
4. 05:30 Spirit and Word in Creation Passages
5. 20:00 Yahweh as a Proper Name and Personal Reference
6. 45:00 Angels, Messengers, and Identity of Yahweh
7. 75:00 Early Church Fathers and Closing Exchanges

Answers

## Questions about this video

What Hebrew word is used to argue for plurality in God?

The speaker points to 'oay' (makers), the plural of maker, in Job 35:10 and Psalm 149:2 as possible evidence of plurality. The opposing side counters that such plurals can be majestic or figurative usage.

How does the debate treat the Holy Spirit in creation?

The Trinitarian speaker cites Job 26:13, Job 33:4, and Psalm 104:29-30 to argue that the Spirit (ruach) of God is the active agent of creation. The Unitarian side questions whether this shows a distinct divine person.

What is the central disagreement in the debate?

The core disagreement is whether Scripture presents God as one person or as multi-personal. Each side reads the Old and New Testament texts on Yahweh, the Word, and the Spirit through its own framework.

## Full Transcript — Download SRT & Markdown

00:00

Speaker A

Is the Holy Spirit identified as Yahweh? I'm not switching. I'm not going to let you move because now you the one you're the one I'm not letting you pivot, brother, because you bring up divine essence, but you would agree that the

00:10

Speaker A

rest of the Bible, including the rest of Acts, could qualify that statement, right? Show me where.

00:15

Speaker A

Okay. Like, okay. I mean, we look at the whole book of Acts. I mean, yeah, let's do it.

00:19

Speaker A

You just conceded that you can be commissioned by me without me being superior. I didn't concede. That's So, now that we got So, now that we got your mistake, I won't call you a liar.

00:29

Speaker A

You're just wrong. How many Yahwehs is that? So that would be three persons who are Yak.

00:33

Speaker A

Oh, see how he's switching. You see how he's switching, right? Qualifying, brother. You just asked me a question.

00:38

Speaker A

See how you're switching? Why? Why you switching the argument, brother? Why you let me?

00:42

Speaker A

You're switching the argument. How you guys doing? Good to see you guys, man. Good to see you guys. Day two of Debate Con and uh today we getting into one of our favorite topics. Man, last night I apologize for last night. I don't know

01:01

Speaker A

what that was. Um but today, man, today we're going to uh you know, hopefully be able to get into the meat of the matter, which is the scripture. And what does the scripture say about the nature of our God, the nature of our Lord Christ,

01:13

Speaker A

the nature of the Holy Spirit, and does it teach that God is only one person, or does the scripture clearly teach that God is multi-personal? We're going to see what the scripture forces us to believe because and just a show of

01:27

Speaker A

hands. How many of us hold the scripture as authoritative? Just a show of hands.

01:31

Speaker A

Okay. All right. I'm missing one. All right. Yeah, I got you. See, we almost had a heretic here. Almost. Almost.

01:37

Speaker A

There's always one, y'all. There's always one. But um so it's good. Everybody in this room holds the scripture as authoritative. So no, it doesn't matter what it is that we are, you know, believed prior. We match our thoughts and our ideas with what the

01:52

Speaker A

scripture says. We don't let ma match the scripture with our own ideas. We morph ourselves and conform ourselves to the word of God. Is that right? So with that being said, let's get into it. Um I wanted to look into the plurality of of

02:05

Speaker A

Yahweh. And um the reason why this is important is because if God is triune then we should see some examples then of of God using plural pronouns of himself or uh using plural verbs or things like this. Um and so we see that in the

02:21

Speaker A

following examples it describes God describes Yahweh as the creator but in the plural creators especially when you look in the Hebrew. So here is an example. We it says in Job 35:10 it says but none says where is my God my maker

02:39

Speaker A

but in the Hebrew it's Oay. Everybody say O say. Oay is the plural of maker which is makers. So it literally says in the Hebrew it says where is God my makers.

02:53

Speaker A

And that's Job chapter 35:10. Here's another example. Uh it we have it says let Israel be glad in his oay makers.

03:03

Speaker A

That's Psalm 149:2. The text literally says again his makers in the plural. And so what we have here is we have God being identified as a plurality of makers yet being identified as one God. Now somebody might just chop

03:19

Speaker A

this up to a plural of of of majesty, right? The royal we type of thing. You know, there's examples of other things or words being used in the plural, used for singular things. So, how do we not just know that this is just a figure of

03:31

Speaker A

speech or just this is just linguistic tools that's just used for God just like it's used for other things in the Bible?

03:38

Speaker A

Well, the scripture definitely demonstrates that there are three persons who are responsible for creation. So, we have the father who is identified as the creator. We have the holy spirit who's identified as creator.

03:52

Speaker A

And we have the word of Yahweh who's identified as creator. All three distinct from each other. Let's get into the scripture. We got Job 26:13.

04:02

Speaker A

It says, "By his breath the heavens are made beautiful. His hand has pierced the fleeing serpent." So what this says here when it says his breath, the word in Hebrew is ruach, which literally means spirit. So spirit, wind, breath, the

04:20

Speaker A

breath of God, the wind of God, the spirit of God has created the heavens and made them beautiful. Notice how it attributes the responsibility of creation, the beauty of creation. That responsibility that that that credit goes to the spirit of God. Let's keep

04:36

Speaker A

going. It says in uh [clears throat] verse 13, it goes on to say that by his spirit he has garnished the heavens.

04:43

Speaker A

This is in the King James version. By his spirit, he's garnished the heavens. And in his hand, he formed the crooked serpent. It says here in verse 4 of Je of Job chapter 33, it says, "The spirit of God has made me." Y'all catch that?

04:59

Speaker A

The spirit of God has made me. And it says, "And the breath of the Almighty gives me life." That's pretty clear, right? If anybody asked for an unequivocal verse, unambiguous statement, we got it right here that the spirit of God is the creator. Here's

05:16

Speaker A

Psalm 104:es 29-30. It says, "You hide your face and they are dismayed. You take away their spirit and they breathe their last. You send forth your spirit and they are created. And you renew the face of the ground." Now, now this

05:37

Speaker A

language here saying that the spirit is the one that gives them life that gives them breath and he sends forth his spirit and they are created. And then it goes on to say that and you renew the face of the ground. Notice this language

05:51

Speaker A

here. This language reflects Genesis 1:2 where it says that in the beginning God created the heavens and the earth and the earth was formless and void. And it says the spirit of God was hovering over the face of the deep. And so this word

06:06

Speaker A

hovering demonstrates it. It's like a eagle hovering over its eggs or its prey, showing personhood or intelligibility and then demonstrating that the Holy Spirit is there in the act of creation. When God is forming the ground, forming the waters, splitting

06:21

Speaker A

the sea, the spirit is the one doing the action. The spirit is the one that's forming, that's molding and making it beautiful, making it good. That's just the Holy Spirit, ladies and gentlemen.

06:32

Speaker A

What about the word? Now, by the way, did I quote a New Testament verse yet?

06:37

Speaker A

No, not a New Testament verse yet. So, all we need besides to beat that super dumping is scripture in the Old Testament to demonstrate the personhood of the Holy Spirit and him being the divine God, the sovereign Lord of

06:49

Speaker A

creation. Now, here we have the word. The word here in Psalm 33:6, it says this. Watch this, guys. By the word of Yahweh the heavens were made and all their host by the breathspirit ruach of his mouth. So now we have a verse that

07:08

Speaker A

introduces the word and the spirit together in the act of creation. But notice they are distinct by the lord himself because they are called the word of the lord and the spirit of the lord.

07:21

Speaker A

So how many is that? We have the word of of the Lord, the spirit of the Lord, the in the Lord. That's three that are all responsible for creation. And it's all here in the scripture. We don't got to

07:32

Speaker A

make it up. We don't got to reinterpret nothing. We ain't got to do nothing that the only thing we got to do is what, y'all?

07:38

Speaker A

Read. That's it. So, now we get to the New Testament because this piggybacks the New Testament is the fulfillment of the Old. It reflects the Old. And so what it says here in John 1, we all know the

07:48

Speaker A

verse. In the beginning was the word and the word was with God and the word was God. The same was in the beginning with God. And watch this. All things were created by him and not one thing that

08:03

Speaker A

has been made was made without him. So this demonstrates that everything that has come into existence. Everything that has come into being came into being by the word of the Lord and that the word is distinct from God the father who he's

08:20

Speaker A

with from the beginning of time from eternity's past. So we have another person here according to the scripture.

08:27

Speaker A

The New Testament just fleshes out the Old Testament concepts a little bit more clearly for us. The word of the Lord is a person, another person with the divine essence, who is in eternal communion with the father who's with the father

08:40

Speaker A

and is responsible for all of creation. Which would mean this that the word himself cannot be created. It's by him that all things that has ever been made has been made. So that means that the word himself cannot be made. He has he

08:56

Speaker A

has always had to be there. Right? Now the scripture is also clear about this though. The scripture is clear about who the word is in Revelation chapter 9 19 sorry it says this. Then I saw heaven open and behold a white horse and he who

09:14

Speaker A

sits on it is called faithful and true. Um and in righteousness he judges and wages war. His eyes are a flame of fire, and on his head are many diadems, having a name written on him, which no one

09:29

Speaker A

knows except himself, and being clothed with a garment dipped in blood, his name is also called the Word of God. So, we know who that is, don't we? A ain't no hints about it. Matter of fact, if there

09:43

Speaker A

was just if it wasn't just clear, we have second Peter in chapter 3:5. It says, "But they deliberately forgot that long ago by God's word, one minute, the heavens came into being." And then the and I'm sorry, and the earth was

10:00

Speaker A

formed out of water and by water. So here we have the word, we have the spirit, and we have the father who are all identified as God and all attributed to be the creator. This isn't just a plurality of majesty. This isn't just a

10:16

Speaker A

royal we. This isn't just a linguistic tool that Hebrews thought it was really cool to write singular things in in plur in the plural form. No, this is demonstrating the plurality of persons of the one true God. The Bible forces

10:30

Speaker A

you to be trinitarian. Thank you. [applause] All All right. Thank you very much. So the debate obviously unitarianism versus trinitarianism. Is God one person or three persons?

11:10

Speaker A

One of the most important things in conversations like this is discuss to discuss conceptual frameworks. So the conceptual framework as it pertains to interpreting any given text and whether or not it identifies God as one person or three persons. If the conceptual

11:25

Speaker A

framework itself used to interpret any text is unjustified and incorrect, then any text that depends on that framework is also unjustified and incorrect.

11:38

Speaker A

So my position is simple. There's one God who is one person whose proper personal name is Yahweh. He is the God of the Old Testament and the God of Jesus in the New Testament.

11:50

Speaker A

Other figures can have this generic title predicated upon them as a description such as but only one is God in the proper sense where it functions as a name for a person namely the father and I'm going to show why this belief is

12:06

Speaker A

justified. So I think we all agree that the name of God in the Bible is Yahweh but what seems to be unclear between us is what that means that his name is Yahweh.

12:18

Speaker A

We'll start with the lexical data and we'll notice that every lexical authority we're looking at agrees that Yahweh is a proper noun. So starting with the dictionary of classical Hebrew, we see that Yahweh is a masculine proper noun. The significance of a proper noun

12:35

Speaker A

is that it identifies one specific entity. Then we see in the Hebrew and Aramaic lexicon of the New Testament volume two that Yahweh is a divine name. So it's not a title, it's an actual proper divine name.

12:52

Speaker A

And then in the theological dictionary of the Old Testament volume 5, the lexical authorities go even further and identify Yahweh specifically as a proper personal name. Meaning that it only refers to one specific person. So the theological dictionary of the Old

13:09

Speaker A

Testament notes that the tetetrogrammaton YHWH is the personal name of the God of Moses.

13:17

Speaker A

Proper personal names identify particular persons. It's not a group name. So just as if you had three distinct persons named David, you would have three Davids, not one David.

13:31

Speaker A

All right? So if you have three distinct persons and each of them has the proper personal name Yahweh, then you would have three distinct Yahwehs. Therefore, you would have three gods. You would have three dep independent acting subjects each possessing the qualities

13:44

Speaker A

necessary to be correctly identified as a supreme god each with the proper personal name Yahweh. Therefore, you would have three proper Yahwehs which means three gods. That's the basic conceptual issue I'm going to focus on in this debate.

14:02

Speaker A

So when you're interpreting the Bible and using a conceptual framework using the name Yahweh, you have to pick one meaning and keep it fixed and see how that works. Okay? So if each person is Yahweh, so the father is equals Yahweh,

14:18

Speaker A

the son is Yahweh, the Holy Spirit is Yah Yahweh, then you have multiple Yahwehs.

14:23

Speaker A

Okay? And then if Yahweh means the trinity, so Yahweh equals father, son, and holy spirit, then the father's not Yahweh. The son's not Yahweh. The Holy Spirit is not Yahweh because no one person is the father, son, and holy

14:36

Speaker A

spirit. All right? So when you're interpreting the Bible and using a conceptual framework, you have to pick one meaning and keep it fixed.

14:48

Speaker A

Okay? So all right. And the same goes for the word God. We have two different uses that we see in the Bible. We have a generic application and then we have God functioning as a name for Yahweh. We see

15:04

Speaker A

this noted in Herbert Brito. He notes that Elohim appears both as a common noun. So a generic title god which can be predicated on multiple things and as a proper noun an alternate name for the one and only deity whose most frequently

15:20

Speaker A

occurring name is the graphine YHWH. So as a common noun this is uh can be predicated upon human beings. The Messiah can be called God. Angels can be called God. False gods can be called God. And then there's the use which

15:33

Speaker A

serves as an alternate name for Yahweh. It serves as a proper name for a specific person. And he goes on to say that Elohim in Genesis 1 is not a common noun, neither a god or the gods, but a

15:46

Speaker A

proper name, God. And he also gives the example in Genesis 1:26. And God said, "Let us make man in our image." So regardless of who God is addressing, he's being presented as one personal acting subject. He's God and he

16:02

Speaker A

exhausts the category of God in the narrative. Now we'll turn to Trinitarian scholar Murray Harris who looks at a handful of times where the generic title God is predicated of Jesus in the New Testament. He states that being a proper

16:16

Speaker A

noun, Yahweh is invariably the name of a person. This name is never used generically but always personally and individually. And he goes on to say it would be inappropriate for Yahweh ever to refer to the Trinity in the Old Testament when

16:34

Speaker A

in the New Testament theos regularly refers to the father alone and apparently never to the trinity.

16:44

Speaker A

All right. And so when some normally so if someone asks uh or someone says Jesus is God we have to ask what do you mean Jesus is God? So if you mean Jesus is God in a referential sense

16:57

Speaker A

then what you're saying is Jesus is the one identified as God in scriptures. Okay. So when you read scripture, you would say something like in the beginning Jesus created for Jesus so loved the world that he gave himself.

17:15

Speaker A

But if you use it in a predicative sense, you're just saying what Jesus is.

17:18

Speaker A

You're saying something like Jesus is divine. But then what happens when you do that?

17:24

Speaker A

You say something like in the beginning divine created for divine so loved the world. Doesn't make sense.

17:34

Speaker A

All right. And so, all right. So, these are not the same thing. All right. And so, if Yahweh fun is a proper personal name, it refers to one person and God functions as a proper name for Yahweh. If you mean Jesus is

17:53

Speaker A

God in a referential sense, you're essentially saying that God in the proper sense is one person and Jesus is that person.

18:05

Speaker A

All right. And so throughout the Bible, the personal acting subject referred to as God is one person, the father. For instance, in Acts 3:13, the God of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob, the God of our fathers has glorified his servant

18:25

Speaker A

Jesus. And then in 1 Thessalonians 9-10, you turn to God from idols to serve the true and living God and to await from for him uh await his son from heaven. So you turn to God from idols to serve the

18:41

Speaker A

true and living God and to await his son one person. Okay. And then in Revelation we read the one who overcomes will inherit all things and I will be his God and he will be his my son. God is just

18:55

Speaker A

one person. Jesus is the son of God. He's not the God of himself. And that is Unitarianism. Thank you.

19:06

Speaker A

[applause] All right. All right. What's up, man? All right, man. How you doing? All right. All right. Okay. So, um that's you. I saw that you quoted uh Acts 13 or Acts 3:13.

19:37

Speaker A

Yes. uh as a reference for God the Father being identified as God, which is no problem. Um are you familiar with verse 15?

19:46

Speaker A

You can read it. It says that they crucified the author of life. Who would that be?

19:55

Speaker A

I mean, it it's refers to Jesus, right? And so to be the author of life means that he's the source of life, correct?

20:02

Speaker A

But in a qualified sense, you have to qualify what life we're talking about. They they just they didn't qualify life.

20:08

Speaker A

They just said he's the only context qualifies the absolute. Context qualifies it. Okay. What what does it qualify it as?

20:14

Speaker A

Uh the the new life that began through Christ and the the Christ event. Can you can you show that in the context of Acts?

20:20

Speaker A

Yes. Because Acts 3:13 says the God of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob. The God of our fathers has glorified his servant.

20:27

Speaker A

So only one person there is the God of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob, and he has glorified his servant. So Jesus is a servant in the narrative. We can't overlook that. We can't isolate something and read whatever we want into

20:37

Speaker A

it. Yeah. So that that didn't answer the question that there's no problem with Jesus being the servant of the father.

20:42

Speaker A

You said that him being you said that somewhere in there it qualifies what life he's the author of um when it doesn't. So unless you got that because it calls him the author of life in abs.

20:54

Speaker A

Eternal life has come through Jesus. For God so loved the world for the father so loved the world. And so, see, I think what you did there [snorts] is you said, now you switch it to the father as if it

21:06

Speaker A

said the father, but it doesn't say that. Says the God of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob. That's a personal reference.

21:11

Speaker A

You said that was. And so, if you're saying Jesus is the God of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob, you're just saying he is himself.

21:16

Speaker A

You said that that was the father, right? You agreed it was you said it was the father. So, you you said it and I agreed with you. I have no problem with the father being the reference there. That's not

21:26

Speaker A

Is it or is it not? I said I agree with you. Okay, good. So my my issue isn't that my issue is with you kind of ignoring that Jesus is identified as the author of life, the source of life, and then you

21:40

Speaker A

trying to diminish that to say, well, it's it's it's qualified not not all life, but it doesn't qual it doesn't qualify. It calls him the author of life, period. So if he's the author of life and source of life, then he has to

21:50

Speaker A

be God by nature. No, because the Bible describes how eternal life came through Jesus.

21:57

Speaker A

Where does it say anything about eternal life? Peter says, "Lord, to where will we go? You have the words of eternal life." Where did he get those words from? He says, "I don't speak anything of my own. Everything I'm telling you, I

22:10

Speaker A

heard from God." Correct. He does say that. So, he has the words of eternal life.

22:14

Speaker A

Okay. And who gave him those words? God gave him those words. That's That's fine.

22:18

Speaker A

So, it's a qualified sense. You can't ignore verse 13. Who would be the author of those words?

22:23

Speaker A

The father. Okay. Who is the author of life according to Acts 3:15? But it's in a qualified sense. So where Okay, let's see again. If you're going to say that it's in a qualified sense, you're going to have to show me

22:34

Speaker A

that because all I see qualifies it. Okay. Where in Acts three does it qualify in the context that when it says Jesus is the author of life, it's not talking about all life. It's just talking about specifically how God the

22:45

Speaker A

Father through Jesus brings eternal life. Right? So we don't isolate scripture. I mean, we don't read out of context. You read, but you got to read in context.

22:54

Speaker A

Read out of context. So two verses earlier like I brought up the God of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob is a personal reference to one person. Now if you're going to say he is the God of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob, then you're saying

23:06

Speaker A

that he is that person. So he glorified himself. No, not necessarily. He can be he's he is the God of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob with but while being distinct from the father. That's not the issue. The issue that I'm asking you to hammer in is to

23:17

Speaker A

show because you have you just said you don't read scripture in isolation. Cool. We all heard that. So where in Acts 3 in the context of Acts 3 does it qualify the source that of life that Jesus is as

23:32

Speaker A

just being the newness of life that we will get when we're glorified. Where does it qualify in Acts three?

23:37

Speaker A

Why do you have to isolate it to only Acts three because you said contextually you said contextually it when you look at context you look at the context of the whole Bible right you don't just you don't say well it

23:48

Speaker A

doesn't end this verse so I'm just going to close my eyes to the rest of the Bible.

23:51

Speaker A

I got you. So, so ju just to be clear, just to be clear, it doesn't in context of Acts 3 qualify it. It qualifies us somewhere else.

23:58

Speaker A

I'm not sure off the top of my head whether it qualifies specifically what life is. But meaning comes from context.

24:05

Speaker A

I agree. My my point is this, Andrew, is that in Acts 3, it's it names him absolutely as the author of life. It doesn't it doesn't qualify the life, but you would he's the source of life and therefore is God by essence. Well,

24:17

Speaker A

you would agree that the rest of the Bible, including the rest of Acts, could qualify that statement, right?

24:23

Speaker A

Show me where. Okay. [clears throat] Like, okay. I mean, we look at the whole book of Acts.

24:27

Speaker A

I mean, yeah, let's do it. Yeah. So, I mean, so if you talk about um I mean, I could pull it up.

24:32

Speaker A

Okay. But if you want, if you got a point while I pull it up, Nope. We'll wait.

24:52

Speaker A

I mean, like I said, I I mean, this is I think it's going to waste time just trying to look up a reference because and again, I think that you're shifting the burden on me. You're shifting on the burden on me

25:03

Speaker A

to prove it. So, you prove from Acts that it means what you say it means.

25:07

Speaker A

Yeah, you're right. So, I guess we can move forward from there. So we don't have a um we don't have any context at least for now today. Maybe we could talk another day but we don't have anything to demonstrate any type of qualification

25:20

Speaker A

where Jesus is called the author of life. So I guess where we stand here Jesus is the source of life and is therefore God. That's one person down.

25:27

Speaker A

Let's get to the Holy Spirit. No, no, no. Because I think what you're doing is you're trying to say because Jesus does X, therefore Jesus is God.

25:34

Speaker A

No, I'm saying because Jesus is X, therefore Jesus is God. But he's doing something right. He's bringing he's bringing something about.

25:42

Speaker A

He is it. He is but he's saying he's the author of life that's doing something that's bringing life about and being the origin.

25:49

Speaker A

So what you're saying is because Jesus does X therefore Jesus is the personal reference God.

25:54

Speaker A

No what I'm saying is is that because Jesus is X would be something that only applies to God Almighty. And I think that you would agree right that only God is the source of life all life in a qualified sin. And so you're you're

26:09

Speaker A

you're you're switching. You're equivocating because you talk about eternal life. This is eternal life that you know the only true God and Jesus Christ whom he sent.

26:19

Speaker A

Beautiful. And when Peter says that you have the words of eternal life, he got those words from somewhere else. So eternal life is coming about through the words which Jesus speaks which don't come inherently from him. They come from his

26:30

Speaker A

God. So then let's do this again. When he says that he's his words are not his own, who's the author of those words?

26:37

Speaker A

The father is. All right. So, we got that. The father is the author of those words. Who is the author of life, though?

26:44

Speaker A

I think we're going in circles cuz I've answered that. Yes, because we're stuck here. Okay. So, the author of life is Christ.

26:50

Speaker A

The father. And so, there hold on. My point is, Andrew is that you bringing in where Jesus is uh giving the words of life has nothing to do with him being the the author of life itself. That's something different. Because when you

27:02

Speaker A

talk about Jesus, and I do believe it might be in Acts when it talks about he's the pioneer of our salvation. He's the author of our salvation. But for God so loved the world that he sent. So God

27:13

Speaker A

is the source of salvation. He sent Jesus. So if you're talking about life and salvation coming through, you can't say then that Jesus is the source of salvation when God is the one who sent him.

27:22

Speaker A

Yeah. Yeah. It would be that the father, the son, and the spirit are all the source of salvation.

27:26

Speaker A

The Bible doesn't say Yes, he does. The Bible doesn't say for the father, son, and holy spirit so loved the world.

27:31

Speaker A

The Bible says, "For God so loved the world," and the father exhausts that category and then and and he gave his only begotten son and so the son carries out the act of salvation and then [clears throat] he's the holy spirit who

27:42

Speaker A

regenerates the spirit for salvation. Right. That's fine because you have all three persons that have trinity. So we have all three persons that have their role in the same operation of salvation.

27:53

Speaker A

But address can you steal man my argument because I don't want to go in circles here because every text we're going to talk about your argument is that the only God the father only the father is god by

28:03

Speaker A

reference as a reference title or name that belongs to the father alone right so when you see a personal acting subject okay then what's the other way that god can be used uh god can be used in refer to the

28:13

Speaker A

essence as a qualitative predicate so I just need to know when you say that Jesus is also the god of Abraham Isaac and Jacob what you mean by that that that he has the same divine essence of God.

28:24

Speaker A

So you're switching. See, that's what I mean. It's not it's not univocal. You're saying he's saying Jesus is God because he has XYZ quality. He's not saying Jesus is the person identified as God throughout scripture.

28:34

Speaker A

No, that's not what I'm saying. That's an equivocation. That's what we got to watch for. He's going to switch back and forth. You got to watch.

28:39

Speaker A

For example, you have Titus 2:13 that literally calls Jesus our great God and Savior. And so, and it names him by reference. So, in reference, he's identified as our savior and our God. So just because the word God is used there

28:53

Speaker A

doesn't mean it's automatically the father. The context will tell you for the most part throughout the New Testament you see that God is used for the father. Sometimes it's used for the son and other times it's used for the

29:02

Speaker A

holy spirit too like in acts 5 where it says that you have not lied to men but you've lied to god when it just earlier says that you lied to the holy spirit identifying the holy spirit as god.

29:12

Speaker A

It's not univocal. Okay so let's let's slow this down. Let's look at this text because he says it calls him the god and savior. I can grant you that. But here's what happens.

29:19

Speaker A

If you say he's our God and you mean in a personal reference sense. So you would have our God Jesus. Then you would have our God the father. Yeah. So you have two gods. If you want to say context,

29:29

Speaker A

context determines meaning. In the beginning of Titus, what does it say? Grace and peace from God who is the father and Jesus Christ our savior. So Titus is distinguishing. So if you want to say Jesus our savior and the father our

29:44

Speaker A

savior, you have two gods. I have I have two persons who have the same nature. That's you have two gods.

29:49

Speaker A

This is where I say welcome to the Trinity because what you have to do, brother, is it's I mean, we are close to Disney. So, this is that is that's good. The the point here is is that you would the two

30:00

Speaker A

you would be the one that has two gods, not me. The Bible if you're if you're going to say that, well, if Jesus is going to be identified as God, which you granted, right, which you conceded to in Titus

30:09

Speaker A

2:13, I can grant you. I'm not conceding, but I can. Well, he's called the he's called the great God and Savior. So according to in your paradigm in the unitarianism you would be a polytheist not me. In my

30:20

Speaker A

paradigm that he's he could be identified as God because God is multi-personal. No. And I'll tell you why that's not case because you can have a qualitative predicate of God applied to a human being.

30:32

Speaker A

We see it in Psalm 45. It says your throne oh God referring to a human being is forever and ever referring to Christ.

30:39

Speaker A

But therefore God your God has anointed you. So regardless if a person is given the generic title or predicate God like Moses is said to be made God to Pharaoh that doesn't make him the God of Israel the personal reference. So for God so

30:54

Speaker A

loved the world in the beginning God created and then you want to say well by creation by the word of his mouth who how many persons is his refer to and then if you have the word out of his

31:05

Speaker A

mouth and that's the trinity you have the trinity plus his word and his mouth.

31:09

Speaker A

So now you have what? Four people going on there. Okay. So, a few things, brother. A few things. Uh, number one, I think that uh let me just I just want to show you something. I just want to show

31:21

Speaker A

you something, bro. Let me show you this. Okay. In Judges, you said in his mouth, you said how many persons is that? You know, is it four persons, three persons? is using a his like singular pronoun, right? Judges in chapter one of Judges,

31:45

Speaker A

it says this, you guys. It says, "Now it happened after the death of Joshua, the sons of Israel asked of a Yahweh, saying, who shall go up first for us against the Canaanites to fight against them?" And Yahweh said, "Judah shall go

32:00

Speaker A

up." Now, let me just ask you real quick. Is Judah one person or is it a tribe?

32:04

Speaker A

It depends on how you use it. It can be a at this point in time in Judges is jud is Judah a tribe or is Judah the son of Jacob?

32:12

Speaker A

I'm not sure. I would say that's to their brothers. So that would be I I don't know.

32:17

Speaker A

It's a tribe. It's a tribe. Okay. So it's a tribe. Okay. All right. So Judah shall go up. Behold, I have given the land into his hand.

32:26

Speaker A

Okay. Who's the his? It's Judah. The group. The group. Yeah. But it's singular pronoun, right? But I answered that. I already answered that in my opening because I say if you say if you say Yahweh is a group

32:39

Speaker A

then you can't say the father is Yahweh because Yahweh is not a group. So you're equivocating on the word. Now if you want to this is what I mean. You got to pick a laneco. You got to pick a

32:48

Speaker A

lane and you got to stick with it. Now you're switching it up and that's what's going to happen. You have to do that to be a trinitarian.

32:55

Speaker A

Andrew, it's not univoccoal. you know that the word God or even Yahweh is not used only in one way saying let me let me finish this with you saying oh it has to only be used one way it doesn't

33:07

Speaker A

according to the scripture no it does not just like we see here how Judah is used to refer to a person or refer to a tribe oh we got to pick one no we don't Judah is a tribe of people multiple

33:20

Speaker A

persons that's also referred to in the singular but also Judah is used to refer to one singular person the son of Jacob So Yahweh can refer to all three persons of the trinity, each person identified as Yahweh, or Yahweh can be used to

33:35

Speaker A

refer to God uh period to the divine essence. It's not univocal, meaning it doesn't have to be used in only one way, which with this I want to ask you this in regards to now let me let me let me follow up then

33:48

Speaker A

we can go to your next question. Okay, you're switching the meaning of the word Yahweh. So you have it first is a group name, right? But all lexical authority agrees that Yahweh is a proper personal name and proper personal names only

34:00

Speaker A

belong to one person. Like if you have the person and his name's David and then you got another person named David. How many Davids do you have? You have two Davids. Now if you say this is a group

34:10

Speaker A

called Judah collectively then none of the individual persons are Judah in a collective sense. Correct?

34:17

Speaker A

No. Why is that not correct? Each person can claim to be to be Judah because no they're Judahites. So if you want so they can be identified as Judah which is why it calls them Judah.

34:26

Speaker A

Okay. So if you want to call Yahweh then you're calling the son a a Yahwehite.

34:30

Speaker A

You're calling the father a Yahwehite. The Holy Spirit's a Yahweh itite because they belong to a group called Yahweh.

34:35

Speaker A

No. So I'm not even saying a group. I'm saying the divine essence. You can refer to the divine essence and refer to it.

34:41

Speaker A

Okay. So now we're going to get into the divine essence. You want to let me talk please.

34:44

Speaker A

Yeah. But I'm just saying you're going Thank you again. No. See again. So can you still meant what I said? still man my point about this point about Yahweh about you're saying you're you're comparing which is I would call a false

34:56

Speaker A

analogy no give me a still give me the still man don't critique give me a still man okay the steel man you're saying that Yahweh can be used in two different senses okay so Yahweh is not univocal is my

35:05

Speaker A

point right that's your point okay so if I'm not switching the meaning of Yahweh I'm not even talking about the meaning of Yahweh I'm talking about its usage so it can be used to refer to the divine essence it can be used to refer

35:17

Speaker A

to any of the divine persons it's not locked in to being used only one way. So when I can when we see the scripture ident like this this is why I want to get into this is the Holy Spirit

35:30

Speaker A

identified as Yahweh. I'm not switching. I'm not going to let you move because now you're the one you're the one that brother because you bring up divine essence and you say Yahweh is somehow equal to divine essence. I'm not going to let you get

35:41

Speaker A

away with that. So you if you want to bring that up and use that as an argument.

35:44

Speaker A

Is the Holy Spirit identified as Yahweh? We're going to stop right there. Is the Holy Spirit as Yahweh?

35:48

Speaker A

He's pivoting. Yeah, guys, I'm shivering in my boots right now because a nature or an essence. That's a that's a group of abstract qualities.

35:57

Speaker A

That's not a person. You believe that God is a group. So, you're saying Yahweh is a is a uh a group of abstract qualities. So, when Yahweh does something, that's just a group of abstract qualities. Not really a person doing anything. See, it's

36:08

Speaker A

incoherent. That's not what I said at all. That's a straw man of what I said.

36:10

Speaker A

You said that Yahweh can mean essence. You said Yahweh means a divine essence, right?

36:15

Speaker A

That's not what I said. See, again, I just I I trust that you guys have good listening skills.

36:21

Speaker A

Did I say I'm talking about the meaning of Yahweh or did I say I'm talking about the usage of Yahweh?

36:27

Speaker A

I never gave a definition. Did you said it can be used by one? So, would you agree that usage is different than meaning?

36:33

Speaker A

Yes. I want to know. Thank you. So, just hold on. Slow down, Andrew, because you said we stuck here.

36:37

Speaker A

So, we stuck here. So, if we're going to be stuck here, I need you to get it.

36:41

Speaker A

I didn't I never used I never said anything about the meaning of Yahweh. If we want to go with meaning, Yahweh means the self-existing one. That's the meaning of Yahweh. Correct.

36:53

Speaker A

Correct. Yak. I mean, it means you don't know. It's No one agrees on what it means, but it means he who caused all things about my God. Okay. Well, Yahweh has a meaning.

37:02

Speaker A

I'm asking how you're using it, not what it means. So, therefore, stop saying that I'm saying Yahweh means this or means that.

37:09

Speaker A

I'm talking about how it's used. So, Yahweh can be referring to the divine essence. Yahweh can be referring to the divine persons which each and every person of the Godhead, father, son, and spirit are identified as Yahweh which

37:23

Speaker A

you don't want to deal with. What did I say in my holy spirit Yahweh?

37:27

Speaker A

Identified as steal man what I said about all lexical authority in the name Yahweh. See what I mean is that you're just saying I can use it however I want. I can apply it here. I can apply it. It can be for

37:37

Speaker A

this. It could be for that. But that creates a a reading comprehension problem. Okay? And it loses explanatory power because you're just applying it however you want. Yet all lexical authority says it's a proper noun. It can only refer to one thing at

37:51

Speaker A

a time. You can predicate it on something else but in a proper sense. Is Judah a proper noun?

37:56

Speaker A

It's a proper noun. Yes. Is Judah only used in one way? So let me explain.

38:00

Speaker A

No. It's used in two ways. Go ahead. Say that again. It's used in two ways.

38:05

Speaker A

Boom. Point over. So when is the Holy Spirit identified as Yahweh? But you're talking about a proper personal name. So when you refer to a group, is Judah a proper name?

38:15

Speaker A

It's not. You're saying you're switching a proper personal name. That's why I was more specific with the lexical authority. It's a proper personal name, not a group name.

38:23

Speaker A

Is Judah a proper personal name? No, it's not. Not when it's used to refer to a group. It's a it's a it's a proper name referring to a specific group.

38:30

Speaker A

Who is Judah? It depends on the context. Very good. See how he wants to switch. Is is Judah one of the sons of of Jacob?

38:37

Speaker A

Depends what context you're reading in. I'm asking is Judah a person, a single person in this context.

38:44

Speaker A

No, I'm talking about Jacob. Okay. So, you're using a different context. Yes. You see what I mean? He's switching it up. We're talking about one thing now.

38:50

Speaker A

He wants to go somewhere else. So, you agree with me that usage uh uh that the proper names can be used in multiple ways.

38:57

Speaker A

I would grant you that. I agree with that. Yes. So it's so brother you can predicate the name Yahweh for instance the angel of the Lord he can be called Yahweh. Why?

39:06

Speaker A

Because he represents Yahweh. A malik by very definition is someone who is authorized to speak on behalf of someone else. Therefore you could predicate that name on him. But he's not that by identity by numerical identity.

39:18

Speaker A

Can Moses be called Yahweh? I I wouldn't call him Yahweh. I don't think he's called Yahweh.

39:24

Speaker A

I didn't ask that. I didn't ask if you hypothetically. Listen. Hypothetically. Yeah. Could Moses be called Yahweh?

39:30

Speaker A

Hypothetically. Yeah, you could. Oh, see, and this is the heresy of Unitarianism. Can Joshua be called Yahweh?

39:36

Speaker A

Hypothetically, we're talking hypothetically. It's not not in the Bible. He could. Yeah. If he represents Yahweh.

39:41

Speaker A

Yeah. Okay. Can Isaiah be identified as Yahweh? I mean, you're just going in circles.

39:45

Speaker A

So, all all the prophets can be called Yahweh. I'm saying hypothetically, you could predicate that name onto someone because they represent Yahweh. That's a hypothetical.

39:54

Speaker A

I got you. I want you to see something here. Now, let's see if the unitarian is coming from a biblical basis or is the trinitarian. This is the heresy of Unitarianism that you're applying the divine name of God to creatures which

40:08

Speaker A

the scripture says only God, only the most high God, his name is Yahweh. No one else's. Let's go. Psalm 83:18, you know this. And Nehemiah 9:6.

40:23

Speaker A

Nehemiah 9:6. It says this, "You alone are Yahweh. You have made the heavens, the heaven of heavens with all their hosts, the earth and all that is on it, the seas and all that is in them. You give life to all of

40:39

Speaker A

them and the heavenly host bows down to you." Touching back on Acts uh Acts chapter 3:1 15 where it says Jesus is the author of life where here it just said that Yahweh is the source of life.

40:48

Speaker A

Now interesting. Who's the only one who's Yahweh? Brother, you are man you're jumping. You're jumping.

40:55

Speaker A

Who's the only one that's Yahweh? See, this is what Man, this is what you do. So, you have to think. Go ahead. We But we've talked about that. You know my answer. Steel man, my answer.

41:04

Speaker A

Who's the only one that's Yahweh? Steel man, my answer. Because according to the verse, who's the only one that's Yahweh?

41:09

Speaker A

The person who's called Yahweh. Again, it's a proper personal name. So, you have to say, "You alone are the Trinity." And then and then it refers to him in in single personal pronoun. Who's the only one who's who's

41:20

Speaker A

Yahweh? I don't know. I don't understand your question. It's a you don't understand my question. Who is the one?

41:25

Speaker A

It's a vague question. Like what do you ask? How about this? Is there anyone other than the one who made the heavens, the heavens of heavens and their hosts, the earth and all that's on it, the seas and

41:33

Speaker A

all that's in them, that one that gives life. Is there anyone other than that individ that that being that's ident that's Yahweh?

41:39

Speaker A

No. Thank you. Okay, let's see. Psalm 83:18. It says that they may know that you alone your name is Yahweh.

41:47

Speaker A

Okay. Are the most not proving that it refers to a trinity. Just really quick. No worries, man.

41:52

Speaker A

According to the verse, is there anyone else who can bear the name Yahweh according to Psalm 83:18?

41:57

Speaker A

You're switching. Yes. Well, no. According to Again, here what you do. You say, according to this verse, we can't go anywhere else.

42:04

Speaker A

We can't go any else. We can't see where God says, "I'm going to send an angel before you and I'm going to put my name in him." You can't go anywhere else. Hey, brother. Close your eyes. If you want to

42:13

Speaker A

be a trinitarian, we're very close to Disney. You just got to make believe. I promise you, man. We going to get to the angel of the Lord in a second.

42:19

Speaker A

First, let's establish this. I I promise you that. I love your references of the angels of the Lord because you're proving the Trinity when you when you bring them up. According to Psalm 83:18, that they may know that you alone your

42:32

Speaker A

name is Yahweh. Is there anyone other than the most high God whose name is Yahweh?

42:37

Speaker A

This person being referenced is Yahweh in the proper sense. That is his proper personal name. If you want to say someone else is Yahweh, can anybody be called Yahweh according to this verse?

42:46

Speaker A

Again, why are we isolating this verse? Why will he not let you go to somewhere else in the Bible just like you did in Acts? He said, "No, no, no, no. Stay right here. I'm sorry that I'm focused

42:56

Speaker A

so I can pull the wool over your eyes." I'm sorry for being focused on the verse. Can anybody else context? You read a lot, but in isolation.

43:03

Speaker A

I got you. Is anybody called Yahweh according to Psalm 83:18? That's not a question that this answers.

43:10

Speaker A

[laughter] You're saying accord a proper personal name. Is anyone have the proper personal name? Yahweh. this person alone the prophecy but you're switching. Is there anybody else who is Yahweh other than switching? That's like saying, can anybody else be Jacob or Judah? Someone

43:27

Speaker A

else is Judah's name that is Yahweh other than the most high? Yes or no?

43:31

Speaker A

There's no one else who has the proper personal name. Improper personal names belong to only one person at a time.

43:37

Speaker A

All right. Is the name Yahweh is the name Yahweh attributed to the angel of the Lord? According to you, it's predicated on him because he represents the word Malik. Hold on, let me stop. Lord's name is been running

43:49

Speaker A

this whole thing. Tough. Let me stop. The word Malik itself, the etmological origin of the word means one commissioned by their superior to act on their behalf.

43:57

Speaker A

That's not what that means. It just means messenger. It doesn't mean well a messenger delivers a message for someone else.

44:02

Speaker A

You're not a messenger if you deliver your own message. That's not what it means. Go intoxicon.

44:06

Speaker A

What does the scripture call? He says all I do is read. But he needs to read a lexicon because what a lexicon will tell you is that the etmological origin of the word meal means one who is commissioned by their superior to act on

44:17

Speaker A

their behalf. Who is superior to God? It doesn't say who's gonna sin God. Who's superior to God?

44:22

Speaker A

Right now, Andrew, I'm every context of the angel of being identify dishonest, bro. You're being extremely dishonest.

44:29

Speaker A

I'm being Tell me what I'm being dishonest about. I'm telling you, you just lied about the the the definition of Mala. Malik means messenger, ladies and gentlemen. It doesn't say nothing about superior.

44:38

Speaker A

Doesn't say nothing about that. And what's your lexical authority to prove that? Excuse me, brother. Brother, comment down man.

44:45

Speaker A

The word malak means me. You call me a liar. And then now you want a tone, please.

44:49

Speaker A

Oh my goodness, man. Can I Can I get it out? That's all. I'm just trying to get it out, big dog. That's all.

44:54

Speaker A

Go ahead. All right. Yes. You are commissioned by another. You're sent out by another.

44:59

Speaker A

No problem. You're proving the trinity that the angel who's Yahweh, cuz the word angel doesn't tell you what type of being this messenger is, this angel is.

45:10

Speaker A

It could be a divine being. It could be a human being. It could be one of the spirit creatures like Gabriel. Or it could be God himself. One who carries the divine essence. One who shares the same divine essence as the father. And

45:21

Speaker A

he's sent as a messenger by the father. Thank you, Andrew, for proving the trinity. Unless you got something else.

45:27

Speaker A

How Okay. So, how is it that this messenger talk about to give it to you?

45:32

Speaker A

How is it that this messenger whose name is Yahweh is identified as Yahweh, but you're saying it's not God?

45:40

Speaker A

You switched two things. You said he is Yahweh, then he's identified as Yahweh. Same thing.

45:45

Speaker A

It's not the same thing. Because you agree that this person is commissioned. What does the word commission mean?

45:51

Speaker A

Sent out. It means sent out and authorized by your superior. Who is going to authorize God?

45:58

Speaker A

Who's going to authorize God? Now you you say that I'm a liar. According to what lexical authority do you get the definition or the etmology of the worm lock using Bible hub? What are you using?

46:11

Speaker A

Where do you get it from? So you call me a liar. You have to prove that I'm a liar.

46:16

Speaker A

And if you look up the word, it means malik means one sent by their superiors who act on their behalf. Who's superior to God? Who's going to send God? So if this person is speaking for God, he's carrying the message for God. Where does

46:29

Speaker A

the message originate? If he is God, why doesn't it just originate for himself? Why doesn't he just go? Why does he have to be sent by someone who's greater than him? Just stop and think about that. The angel of Yahweh, not the angel who is

46:43

Speaker A

Yahweh. You don't have the angel Yahweh plus the the descender Yahweh. Whether you have two Yahwehs, how do you understand a genative construction? The angel of Yahweh. the angel of Yahweh like the son of Yahweh the temple of

46:55

Speaker A

Yahweh the word of Yahweh it's just one person so here we go we got his word we got his angel we got Strong's exhaustive concordance it says and uh Mala means uh ambassador angel king messenger what's an ambassador brother

47:11

Speaker A

for someone who sent out sent someone who's commissioned by their representative you said you said you said that the definition of malok is someone who is sent out by their superiority that's not that's not here again. What's an ambassador?

47:24

Speaker A

Again, you could be my ambassador. Would that mean that you're my superior? It means a representative. If I send you out, are you my ambassador?

47:31

Speaker A

I'm I'm lesser in power than you. No. No. If I like, if I sent you to the other room, hold on. Listen. If I sent you to the other room to say something to James, the host, if I sent you to Hey

47:41

Speaker A

man, can you tell James this? You are my ambassador in that moment. Correct. I'm speaking for you on your behalf.

47:46

Speaker A

So, you are my ambassador. Correct. I'm not you. I'm speaking on your behalf. I'm saying the angel is not Yahweh. Notice how you can't answer a question Andrew.

47:53

Speaker A

I'm I'm answering your question. Are you my ambassador? Yes or no? If you send me, I am cuz you sent me to Am I your superior?

47:59

Speaker A

Yes, you would be in that context. In what way am I your superior? Well, first of all, you can't command me to do anything because you're not my superior. Now, if you use like But can you be my Can you be my

48:08

Speaker A

ambassador even though I'm not superior to you, brother? Look at like the United States.

48:12

Speaker A

No, answer the question. Yeah, you have because because it depends on the context. You're not my superior. So, you can't commission me to do something. You can't command that I do something. Hold on a second.

48:21

Speaker A

So it's a false analogy. So if I ask you to go and tell James and relay a message to James and you choose to go, are you now commissioned by me?

48:32

Speaker A

But I'm not you. No worries. Are you commissioned? I'm not you. It's a yes or no.

48:36

Speaker A

I'm speaking on your behalf. That's I'm speaking on your behalf. So are you commissioned?

48:41

Speaker A

I'm not you. That's the point. The point is is the Is he commissioned? Yes or no?

48:45

Speaker A

Are you commissioned, Andrew? Yes or no? Yes. Well, you're not my superior. So it's a false analogy.

48:50

Speaker A

So very good. So notice what you just conceded to. You just conceded that you can be commissioned by me without me being superior.

48:58

Speaker A

I didn't concede. That's very So now that we got So now that we got your mistake, I won't call you a liar. You were just wrong. It's okay. You were wrong. All right. I I won't say that you

49:06

Speaker A

were trying to be deceitful on purpose cuz that was a liar. We just went over that. Hold on. Let me finish what I was about to say, please.

49:13

Speaker A

Okay. Since we finally got that out of you. I had to pull teeth and waste time over there. So, so far we see that the angel, the messenger of Yahweh, who is an ambassador of the father, who's also

49:25

Speaker A

identified as Yahweh, and we just saw in Psalm 83:18 that no one other than the most high God can be identified as Yahweh. How do you deal with this? Very easy. Yahweh is a proper personal name.

49:38

Speaker A

Proper personal names belong to one person. We know this. So if Yahweh is sending this person, that name can be predicated upon them because they're representing him. For instance, when the person says, "I made a covenant with you," where's the message coming from?

49:52

Speaker A

Inherently from within himself, or is it coming from the person who sent him? Yahweh says, "Yahweh, and I will send, I will send an angel, a malak, a representative before you, and I will put my name in him." Stop mising the

50:07

Speaker A

verse. Where does it say that I will put my name in him? in the verse.

50:12

Speaker A

Show it, please. Exodus 23, right? Let's get the verse. Get the verse. Cuz I don't like your tone, son.

50:27

Speaker A

I don't like your lying on the scripture. Exodus 23. Let's see it. If you got it, you want to read it. Go ahead.

50:41

Speaker A

I don't got it set. I need you to see it. I want you to read it for yourself.

50:54

Speaker A

Any time now before the rapture. I think it's a waste of time. But it's not a waste of time. So reading the scripture is not a waste of time.

51:07

Speaker A

It's going to grow you, strengthen you. Um, I'm having trouble pulling it up. Okay, it's all right.

51:19

Speaker A

Give me a second. You want to talk? Let me pull it up. You can make another point. We'll come back to it.

51:22

Speaker A

It's It's It's Exodus chapter 23. Mhm. Starting at verse I believe it's uh starting at verse 20.

51:41

Speaker A

It says, "For behold," you there? Yeah. Go ahead. All right. It says, "Behold, I am to send an angel before you to keep you along the way and to bring you into the place which I have prepared. Keep

51:53

Speaker A

watch for yourself before him. I'm sorry. Keep watch yourself before him and listen to his voice. Do not be rebellious toward him, for he will not pardon your sin.

52:06

Speaker A

That's tough. Not really. Since my name is in him. My Does it say that I will put my name in him?

52:14

Speaker A

I I think we're having a reading comprehension problem here. Let me just respond, brother. Let me Let me read the verse. I got the verse.

52:19

Speaker A

I will put my name in him. It's in him, but he So, it's already But the context qualifies.

52:25

Speaker A

Hold on. Hold on a second. So right here we got ladies and gentlemen that it's not that the father puts his name in him but that the name is essentially in this messenger which is why he won't pardon

52:40

Speaker A

your sins. This is why he has the ability to forgive or not forgive your sins which is why you are not to be rebellious against him. Why? Because he is Yahweh.

52:48

Speaker A

No his name is in him not was put into him. You granted you already stated that only one can be called Yahweh. You said that you said only one has the name Yahweh, right?

52:59

Speaker A

No. Okay. So, okay. So, who all three persons are identifying? Who's speaking? The only one the the one where I said that the only one is Yahweh is the most high God. The whole point here is is that the most high God is

53:11

Speaker A

multi-personal. So, Yahweh refers to a group. Yahweh refers to a multiplicity of persons or it can refer to the divine essence.

53:20

Speaker A

Just whatever you want. Whatever you want to context a context shows us the usage.

53:24

Speaker A

Now, who's speaking here in this context? The father. How do you know that? Because of the context. The context.

53:29

Speaker A

Where does it say the father? The context talks about the father. Where does it say the father?

53:32

Speaker A

Because it's the father who sends his angel. It's the father who sends. Okay. So, the father is Yahweh. And all the angels are the angels of the father.

53:40

Speaker A

Then uh so yeah, all all the angels are the angel of the father. The angels are also the angels of Christ too right?

53:48

Speaker A

He can have messengers. David can have messengers. Everybody can have messengers. Do the angels also belong to Christ?

53:54

Speaker A

No. No. In Revelation, Christ has his own angels. Okay. When when God brought when when Christ was exalted into the heavenly world, God commanded that all God's angels worship Christ.

54:07

Speaker A

So, do those angels? So, they're not his angels. What sense would it make for God to be exalted into heaven and then God command the angels to worship him if they know he's God?

54:14

Speaker A

Why would they have Why would the God have to command the angels to worship God? Now, back to this concept.

54:19

Speaker A

Wait, wait, wait. Does God command you to worship him? In this context that I read, God commands the angels to worship Christ.

54:27

Speaker A

I agree with you. Does God command you to worship himself? Back to this context. [laughter] No, God.

54:36

Speaker A

You have free will to do whatever you want. That's that's true. What does God command you?

54:41

Speaker A

God commands in what context? That's a Does God command you to worship him? Yeah. in certain context yet.

54:50

Speaker A

Okay. So, God commands you to worship him. Why would God who is already God need you or command you need to command you to worship him in the context of See how that's a bad argument.

55:05

Speaker A

God comm No, it's not a bad argument, but it is a terrible. We're talking about the angel of the Lord. You said that the father is Yahweh.

55:10

Speaker A

Back to the angel of the Lord. I'm sending Who's I? I'm sending my angel. So, I'm sending a representative.

55:16

Speaker A

That's right. in my name. That's one person. My name, not our name. What? What do you mean? Why is it only the father's name if it's also his name?

55:26

Speaker A

It does. Wait, hold on a second. It doesn't say our name is in him. It says my name because God is one person.

55:31

Speaker A

Okay. So, look, uh, Andrew, you demonstrating that the angel has the same name as the father. That the name of the father is also in straw man in my position. I didn't say that brother.

55:44

Speaker A

I said the name could be predicated upon him. steel man my argument but don't straw man my argument please brother please brother please I know I know you don't like it not being able to straw man I like to be able to get it out that's

55:54

Speaker A

it's tough I know it's tough man I know it's uncomfortable um so what we got here so far ladies and gentlemen and I hope we can move forward from here I think the point's been made that the father's name

56:05

Speaker A

is also the angel of the lord's name you try you made the mistake I wouldn't say you lied but you made the mistake of saying that the father put his name in the angel. No, it doesn't say that. It

56:19

Speaker A

says that his name is in him. My name is in him. This is why you are to treat him this way. The same tr treatment that you give to me is the same treatment you give to the angel because my name is in

56:32

Speaker A

him. He's not just coming in the name of the Lord. He's not just working on his authority, but he bears the name Yahweh because he is Yahweh.

56:40

Speaker A

Okay. So, let's get back to my conceptual. Let's go back to your conceptual framework.

56:43

Speaker A

Can we get to the Holy Spirit now? Because I was asking because you you're not gonna just run this whole thing. It's a joint conversation.

56:48

Speaker A

I'm not you, brother. You're the one who brought up the angel of the Lord.

56:51

Speaker A

Because you said something interesting. You said it. Wait. No. I want clarification. Andrew, you're the one who brought up the angel of the Lord. I asked about the Holy Spirit earlier. You said, "No, no, no. Wait." So, I went with you. You

57:01

Speaker A

brought up the angel of the Lord. Brought all this up. This was your I let you lead here.

57:04

Speaker A

So, I just want to ask about the Holy Spirit now. But you said something interesting. You said it's both of their names. I I don't know what you mean by that because Yahweh is a proper personal name. You

57:13

Speaker A

say it's both of their names. Do you mean that collectively all of them have the name Yahweh together or do you mean that each one of them individually have the proper personal name so that there's two Yahwehs? How

57:25

Speaker A

many Yahwehs are there? Okay. How many persons have the proper personal name Yahweh? There are three persons who are named Yahweh.

57:31

Speaker A

Three persons who have the proper personal name Yahweh. How many Yahwehs is that? So that would be three persons who are Yahweh.

57:37

Speaker A

Oh, see how he's switching. You see how he's switching, right? Qualifying, brother. You just asked me a question.

57:42

Speaker A

See how you're switching? Why Why you You're switching the argument, brother. Why you let me not let me finish?

57:46

Speaker A

You're switching the argument. Okay. You said I'm sorry. You got to let me finish.

57:51

Speaker A

How many persons, Andrew, you have to let me finish. How many persons have the problem?

57:54

Speaker A

You're not answer. You need to answer the question. So, you just asked me again, how many persons have the name Yahweh? What did I say, guys? I said three, right?

58:01

Speaker A

So, y'all heard my answer, but he's saying I didn't answer. I So, it shows I don't know if it's it's if it's your agitations that's blocking your hearing or something. I don't know. Listen to my answer again.

58:10

Speaker A

I will. There are three person. Let me respond. There are three persons who have the name Yahweh.

58:15

Speaker A

Mhm. Okay. There's, if you're asking uh uh how many gods, I guess, cuz that's what you will be alluding to. How many gods bear the name Yahweh? There'll be one because the one God is multi-personal.

58:28

Speaker A

Okay. So, hold on. Okay. So, with this being said, I want to get into the nitty-gritty of the Holy Spirit.

58:36

Speaker A

No, no, no. Let me respond. Is the No, we're going to lock right there. No, no. We're not we're not going to let this slide because this was the whole premise of my argument.

58:42

Speaker A

And you running from the Holy Spirit because the Holy Spirit is a kryptonite for these Unitarians. They do not want to talk about the Holy Spirit.

58:48

Speaker A

I bet the Holy Spirit never revealed to you God as three persons. I promise you.

58:51

Speaker A

Yes, he did. Let me show Let me show you. Wasn't the Holy Spirit telling you some nonsense. I'll tell you that. Okay.

58:56

Speaker A

But let's say, okay, so you said that. See how he switches it up? I asked him, Yahweh is a proper personal name, right?

59:01

Speaker A

Then he says, well, there's three who have the name Yahweh. Do you mean if that there's three persons who each have the proper personal name Yahweh? So that there are three Yahwehs. Now I said are there three Yahwehs? He doesn't answer.

59:13

Speaker A

He said there's three that have the name Yahweh. That's not the same thing. Plain and simply, how many Yahwehs are there?

59:20

Speaker A

I already answered that one or three. Asked and answered. He he won't answer the question. Now he's talking persons that are Yahweh.

59:26

Speaker A

See how you see how he words it? Yeah. You see how I give you a full answer. I'm asking you how many persons have notic answer guys.

59:35

Speaker A

How many Yahweh are there? One or three. This trick doesn't work. Is there one or three?

59:40

Speaker A

Answered you, bro. He can't answer it. You're right. That's the trinitarian kryptonite. You ask him how many Yahweh. I've heard him on public say it.

59:46

Speaker A

There's more than one Yahweh. You got it. There's more than one person that's identified as Yahweh. Absolutely.

59:50

Speaker A

How many Yahwehs are there? Is there one Yahweh? Is the Holy Spirit? Is the Holy Spirit Yahweh?

59:55

Speaker A

Now I want you to answer my question. I already did. Is the Holy Spirit Yahweh? I want you to give me one or three.

60:00

Speaker A

Is the Holy Spirit Yahweh? So, you want to answer the question? Cool. Is the Holy Spirit Yahweh?

60:03

Speaker A

This is what happens. We can't have a productive conversation until you answer the question.

60:07

Speaker A

You're stuck and you don't know where to go. You're stuck. You're We are Because you know what happens when you say there's three Yahweh? You know what happens? You're a polytheist.

60:14

Speaker A

You're off script. You know what happens. You said I'm a polytheist. You know what happens when you say there's three Yahweh?

60:18

Speaker A

Who's the Holy Spirit? The spirit of the father. So, is he distinct from the father?

60:24

Speaker A

Yes. All right. So, you believe that the Holy Spirit is a person? No. You could be distinct from the father and not be a person distinct from him.

60:32

Speaker A

It's a breath which comes out for him which which animates and gives life. So the person so the holy spirit is not a person.

60:37

Speaker A

No. Okay. So over here in in Hebrews 3 um before we do this you would agree that personhood is a rational agent right? One who has uh mind will self-awareness. That's those are qualities of personhood. Correct.

60:54

Speaker A

What you're saying that each person has their own mind? Uh, no. That's not what I'm saying.

60:58

Speaker A

Oh, but you said, hold on. But you said a person is a rational agent who has their own mind.

61:01

Speaker A

Can you answer the question? Well, I mean, I'm trying to clarify your definition. I said a rational agent is one with a mind with self-awareness.

61:08

Speaker A

How many minds is a mind? With with self-awareness, with will. Can you answer in order for a person to be Do you agree that those are the qualities of personhood? Andrew, I'm trying to understand your proposition.

61:19

Speaker A

Before you do that and take it somewhere else, do you agree that those are properties of personhood? Yes or no? I'm trying to ask you clarification because you said that No, you're not. You're trying to de deviate. Bro, can you answer this simple

61:29

Speaker A

question? You said a person has a mind. So each mind has each person their own mind.

61:35

Speaker A

Do you agree? Stop wasting time, bro. Do you agree? I'm asking for clarity. [clears throat] Man, the Holy Spirit is kryptonite for these heretics. Bro, is does the are the qualities of personhood, having a mind, having will, and having self-awareness?

61:49

Speaker A

Yes or no? Yes. Thank you. You see how easy that is? Okay. So, do you deny that the Holy Spirit has mind, has self-awareness, and has will?

61:58

Speaker A

But see what you just switched it up, brother. You said he has mind. You didn't say he has a mind.

62:04

Speaker A

That's what that means. No, you say he has mind. What does it mean to have mind, brother? You either have a mind or you don't have a mind.

62:10

Speaker A

Personality. You see how he switches it up? That's what I'm talking about. Does he have a mind?

62:13

Speaker A

You switch it up. Does he have a mind? Yes. Yeah. He has a mind. The father has a mind.

62:18

Speaker A

Yes. No. The Holy Spirit doesn't have a mind. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. You got me.

62:21

Speaker A

[laughter] Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Front of your slip there, baby. Yeah. Yeah. Look, man, you can just come over to the side, man. It's all good.

62:30

Speaker A

Okay. So, the I mean, that's worse for you. If the Holy Spirit has a mind, then he's a distinct being from the father because one person is one being.

62:36

Speaker A

Not if he has a separate mind. Yes. But if he has the same mind, no.

62:40

Speaker A

You just said he has a mind. Now you're saying they have the same mind.

62:43

Speaker A

Yes. Is it one mind or three minds? We don't know. It's Disneyland. You would agree that one mind is a mind, right?

62:50

Speaker A

Yeah. Thank you. So if the father, son, and spirit have a mind and it's the same mind, they're the same being.

62:55

Speaker A

But you said, hold on, hold on, hold on. Let me clarify. You said persons have a mind. Yes.

62:59

Speaker A

Then you're saying the three persons have a mind. Yes. If the if Yahweh has a mind, then he's only one person.

63:05

Speaker A

No. What do you mean? Does Jesus make decisions independent of the father? Mind is a property of your essence.

63:11

Speaker A

Does Jesus does does the son make decisions apart from the father? Does the the son does he make decision?

63:19

Speaker A

He doesn't. No. Okay. So when Jesus nothing that he does is separate from the father's will which and separate from the father's will is not the same thing as thinking something different.

63:29

Speaker A

Yes it is. If you are over here talking about oh you're thinking separately from the father. You're making decisions separately from the father. No they do not. They are one. Which is why hold on a second because you just deviated and

63:38

Speaker A

shuffled again. We're talking about the Holy Spirit. Okay. So you disagree that the Holy Spirit has a mind.

63:44

Speaker A

And I mean so the Holy Spirit's a a complicated subject. I know it is. That's why I'm bringing them up.

63:50

Speaker A

Yeah, I know you want to isolate one instance and not look at the whole Bible. I know you're about to do that. I know that's coming.

63:55

Speaker A

Okay. So, does the Holy Spirit have a mind? Yes or no? I mean, in some sense, it's rational energy.

64:00

Speaker A

Rational energy. Rational energy. Yes. Okay. So, can can energy be rational without personhood? I mean, when we're talking about the Holy Spirit and what the Bible describes of it, it's unique to anything that exists in creation.

64:12

Speaker A

If something is rational, does it have personhood? Is AI rational? No. It is to some it but it thinks bro it's artificial intelligence thinks according to that which is programmed in it. So it does have rational thought.

64:26

Speaker A

You put AI you can just you just said that AI has thought. No it's it's there's intelligence. It's in the name artificial intelligence artificial. So is the thought act is it actual thought or is it programmed?

64:39

Speaker A

I'm you exactly that's what I would say about the Holy Spirit. There is irrational intelligence to it but it's not of its own initiative. It was brought about and instilled into it by the father.

64:48

Speaker A

Okay. So, so just to be clear, so something can be inanimate and still be rational.

64:54

Speaker A

What do you mean inanimate? Like you no mind, no self-awareness, no will, but still be rational.

65:01

Speaker A

Again, when you talk about rational energy and you're talking about the Holy Spirit, it can have intelligence in it without being a distinct person like in the sense that it decides where it goes and what's it what it wants to do rather

65:12

Speaker A

than what was instilled into it. Okay. All right. So when the holy does the Holy Spirit speak, it communicates. So it can speak.

65:20

Speaker A

There's there's texts which say like the Holy Spirit said this. I think it's communicating a message to somebody.

65:26

Speaker A

But if it does it speak, does it have a mouth? Do you need a mouth to speak?

65:29

Speaker A

No, not necessarily. Okay. So then so it's communicating something. But what do you mean by speak? It's communicating information.

65:36

Speaker A

Does communicating information? Does he communicate and say words? Does he speak? No, not in the sense it communicates information.

65:42

Speaker A

Okay. So right here in Hebrews 3, it says in verse 7, the Holy Spirit ju therefore just as the Holy Spirit says.

65:49

Speaker A

Okay. So the Holy Spirit is speaking, right? It's communicating. You're I think you're taking that too literal.

65:54

Speaker A

Okay. So it says, "Therefore, just as the Holy Spirit says today, if you hear his voice," So he's speaking words, right?

66:04

Speaker A

It's communicating a message. It's revealing something to Is it communicating words? It's communicating a message to these people. is about from scripture though, right? So the Holy Spirit is speaking to people right?

66:16

Speaker A

Yeah. So yeah, it's communicating a message, right? And when So the Holy Spirit is speaking to people. Can energies speak to people?

66:24

Speaker A

It can communicate information. Energies can speak to people. It can communicate information. I I'll ask again. I told you. I think you're taking that too literal. I don't want to go in circles.

66:32

Speaker A

Can energies speak to people? It can communicate information. I don't know what you mean by speak. You don't have a mouth. How do you speak?

66:38

Speaker A

Can does the father have a mouth? No. Does he speak? He communicates. Okay. Does the father speak words?

66:45

Speaker A

He communicates. Does he speak words? He communicates information which does he have a conversation with people?

66:52

Speaker A

He communicates to himself. This dude's in bot mode. My goodness. All right. We we we'll move on. So the the it says uh the Holy Spirit says, "Today, if you hear his voice, do not hearken your heart as when they provoked

67:04

Speaker A

me." Was the Holy Spirit provoked? Oh, you're you're saying this is the spirit throughout the whole nation.

67:11

Speaker A

Not me. It says, "Therefore, just as the Holy Spirit says today, if you hear his voice, do not harden your hearts as when they provoked me." The Holy Spirit just said that they provoked him, right?

67:25

Speaker A

Yeah. But it's communicating a message that's referring back to God. Can energies be provoked?

67:30

Speaker A

It's referring to God. This is God communicating a message through the Holy Spirit. But the Holy Spirit said me, right?

67:35

Speaker A

No. Oh, the the Holy Spirit's communicating a message for the father. So, is the Holy Spirit the father?

67:43

Speaker A

I I don't know what I said that would lead you to because you said that he's communicating a message for the father. So, like that would insinuate he's the father or something. Is the holy spirit the father?

67:52

Speaker A

No. Okay. He's distinct from the father, right? Yes. And then speaking distinctly from the father, he says they provoke me, right?

67:58

Speaker A

He's communicating what the father is saying. Where does it say that? Context tells us that.

68:03

Speaker A

Show me. Okay. I mean again when you refer to when you go back it's referring to Psalm 95 and it says it it's using this word come let us sing to joy for Yahweh for Yahweh is a great God a great king above all

68:17

Speaker A

gods the sea is his for he made it in his hands wasting time formed the dry land it's just referring to one person and this is referring to who's the person that's speaking there according to Hebrews again you just have a concept

68:32

Speaker A

skip down to verse 11 In Hebrews 3, I just told you five times. I I mean, I don't know how clear I can make it. He's communicating a message for the father.

68:42

Speaker A

When you talk about the spirit again, let's go to Psalm 33 and we we'll see a description. Psalm 33. This is Hebrews chapter 3 and is quoting Psalm 93.

68:50

Speaker A

I know you don't like to look at the rest of the Bible, but we got to do that.

68:53

Speaker A

Who's the speaker according to Hebrew? If you have the spirit of Yahweh, that means it's his spirit.

68:58

Speaker A

Good. Is the spirit Yahweh? You can't be the spirit of Yahweh and also be Yahweh.

69:02

Speaker A

What? Yeah. So the spirit of Yahweh is not Yahweh. He's the spirit of the spirit.

69:07

Speaker A

So is the spirit of Yahweh is he Yahweh? No. So when the spirit of Yahweh says that they provoked me, who is the spirit? Who is the spirit?

69:16

Speaker A

I'm telling you, he's communicating on behalf it's on behalf of the father. That's what I'm saying.

69:20

Speaker A

So who was provoked? It's God's spirit. It's his spirit. Who is provoked? God. The father.

69:26

Speaker A

So Yahweh was provoked. Yes. And the Holy Spirit says they provoked me. He's referring to messages going.

69:31

Speaker A

So who does that make the Holy Spirit? They're wasting time. I know you are.

69:34

Speaker A

All right. One more. How much more time we got? Two minutes. Okay. One more. Man, you are in straight. I'm telling you guys, Holy Spirit kryptonite for these guys.

69:43

Speaker A

Jehovah's Witnesses, Unitarians, Muslims, it don't matter. Holy Spirit locks them up. It confounds them.

69:47

Speaker A

How many Yahweh are there? Confounds them. Yeah, that that's that's what you can't even answer. One of three.

69:52

Speaker A

You're right. Answer one or three. You're right. I can't. You can't. Acts chapter 13, verse two, it says this. It says, "And while they were ministering to the Lord and fasting, the Holy Spirit said,"Wh speaking?" Go ahead. Could it make

70:07

Speaker A

Who's speaking? The Holy Spirit communicated. All right. The Holy Spirit is speaking, y'all. Is that the father?

70:11

Speaker A

Uhhuh. No, I already said it's not. Okay. So, the Holy Spirit is distinct from the father and speaking. Okay. So, it shows the Holy Spirit has personhood.

70:19

Speaker A

Set apart for me. For who? He says set apart for me, Barnabas. It's for God. It's for God.

70:25

Speaker A

But for the Holy Spirit specifically, right? Thank you for admitting the Holy Spirit's God, man. That's good.

70:31

Speaker A

That's good stuff. I I rest my time, your honor. Again, so we could just talk about that genative construction. You say the spirit of Yahweh. So I want to know what you mean by that. You say the spirit of

70:47

Speaker A

Yahweh. How do you understand that genative construction? Is it the spirit who is Yahweh? The spirit Yahweh? Is this the spirit that's from Yahweh that comes from Yahweh?

70:57

Speaker A

You can't speak. Yes. You see what I mean? This is what you get. You get games. This is games. You can't answer the question, brother. I said yes.

71:06

Speaker A

I mean, which one is it? I gave you five different answers. And the answer is yes to all of them. He's the spirit of Yahweh. He's identified as this is what you get. This is what you get.

71:15

Speaker A

The spirit from Yahweh. He's the spirit. He's Yahweh. Hold on. He's from Yahweh. But he is Yahweh. It's not either or. It is. It is because you're talking about a personal reference. He's also the spirit of Christ right?

71:26

Speaker A

No, he's not. Oh, so when we go Oh, brother. In in Corinthians and in Romans, does he is he called the spirit of Christ?

71:33

Speaker A

Paul uses that word spirit in different ways. He talks about the spirit of adoption.

71:38

Speaker A

Who is that? It's what do you mean who? Why do you assume it's a a who?

71:42

Speaker A

Because you said the Holy Spirit is rational. Begging the question. I'm sorry. I'm sorry. When you said the spirit is rational, I'm sorry for assuming a who.

71:49

Speaker A

I'm sorry. So when when it says so does he refer is the Holy Spirit referred to as the spirit of Christ?

71:56

Speaker A

No, that's not referring to the the Holy Spirit. It's not. I mean, you're not you're just begging the question. You're just bringing up this verse. You don't want to look at the Bible. You just want to isolate and make a little quick

72:05

Speaker A

points. Okay, final point. Let me let me just do this real quick. Final point here. He just said that the Holy Spirit is not referred to as the spirit of Christ.

72:13

Speaker A

Okay, here it is. In Romans 8, it says, "Therefore, there is now no condemnation for those who are in Christ Jesus for the law of the spirit of life in Christ.

72:25

Speaker A

Jesus has set you free from the law of death." Hold on, let me just because we got a little bit of time. Let me skip down. Hold on. Let me just do this real quick. Spirit of Christ Bible verse

72:42

Speaker A

is is guys. I'm teaching y'all how to look stuff up right now. Okay. See here.

72:58

Speaker A

All right. Here it is. So, yeah. Romans 8:9. You however are not in the flesh but in the spirit. That's the Holy Spirit right?

73:08

Speaker A

No, that's not what that's referring to. No. So, we're not in the holy. It's contrasting the the the fleshly and and earthly versus the spiritual world.

73:15

Speaker A

It's not It says you, however, are not in the flesh, but in the spirit. In fact, the spirit of God dwells in you. Is that the Holy Spirit?

73:22

Speaker A

It's because the spirit of God dwells in you. You're in the spirit. You're in the spirit, right?

73:26

Speaker A

But that's not referring to the Holy Spirit. It's contrasting godly man this contrasting flesh or spirit.

73:31

Speaker A

Watch this. And then it says anyone who does not have the spirit of Christ does not belong to him.

73:36

Speaker A

Is the spirit of God also being identified as the spirit of Christ? Can have different meanings. That's what you understand because you read but not lexicons. You're right.

73:43

Speaker A

So if you have the word spirit, I rest my case. Yeah, you would. I bet you would. Talk about the spirit like the spirit of love or team spirit. That's a disposition.

73:51

Speaker A

You have to have the disposition. And it says that God put his spirit on people so that they will cry out aba father. So you have to have the disposition spirit of Christ. So in 1 Peter chapter 1 vers

74:01

Speaker A

11 when it says inquiring what you jump no problem. [applause] So, what we saw, ladies and gentlemen, when it comes to unitarianism, you're going to have to leave your brain on the side and you're going to have to uh, you

74:33

Speaker A

know, go into bot mode and go into repeat mode instead of dealing with actual arguments and verses. Um, now this is the verse I was about to read you guys that I I mean, I I don't know how these guys call themselves biblical

74:45

Speaker A

unitarians. This is insane. First Peter chapter 1 vers 11 says, "Inquiring, talking about the prophets, matter of fact, let's actually go to the to the whole thing. This is what it says.

74:54

Speaker A

1 Peter chapter 1 verse 11 it says starting in verse 10 concerning this salvation the prophets who prophesied about the grace that was to be yours searched and inquired carefully inquiring what person or time the spirit of Christ in them

75:20

Speaker A

was indicating when he predicted the sufferings of Christ and the subsequent glories. Hold on a second. How is it number one that the spirit here is is obviously referred to as a he and is referred to as the spirit of Christ who

75:35

Speaker A

was back then in the prophets prophesying about Christ himself. But we are going to say that the spirit's not a person, that the spirit isn't Yahweh, that the spirit is not the Holy Spirit, the same spirit of the father, the

75:48

Speaker A

spirit of God, the spirit from Yahweh, the spirit of Yahweh. The answer is yes, Andrew. It's not either or. It's all of it. The Holy Spirit is the spirit from Yahweh, the spirit from the father, the spirit of the father, the spirit of God,

76:01

Speaker A

the spirit of Christ, the spirit through Christ from Christ given by Christ. Yes. The answer is yes. Yes. So with this being said, notice ladies and gentlemen, the Holy Spirit is not just the spirit of the father. He's also the spirit of

76:16

Speaker A

Christ. Which would mean that the only way that the spirit can belong to both the father and the son is if they share the same nature.

76:28

Speaker A

Because according to him, the spirit of Christ has to be different from the spirit of the father because they don't have the same nature. They're different beings.

76:36

Speaker A

But the Bible forces you to be trinitarian to believe that the father, son, and spirit have the same being, have the same essence. Otherwise, the holy spirit cannot be both the spirit of Christ and the spirit of the father at

76:52

Speaker A

the same time. Can't be it. So then we deal with the angel of the lord. Notice the mistake he made. His point really h uh hinged on this idea that the father put his name in the angel of the lord

77:08

Speaker A

which would indicate that the angel of the lord did not possess this name inherently innately didn't wasn't named Yahweh but that he was given this that this was something that was prescribed him he was allowed to rock with it just

77:21

Speaker A

for a little short time no it says you are to treat him this way you are not to rebel against him because not because I put my name in him be because my name is in him. He didn't put it there. It

77:33

Speaker A

belonged there innately showing that the angel of the Lord is Yahweh in essence. How do we see this further? In Genesis chapter 28, it talks about how Yahweh appeared to Jacob in a dream. And Jacob made a vow to Yahweh and he said, "If

77:50

Speaker A

you keep me for all the days of my life, I will vow to make you my God and I will give you a tithe. I will give you a tenth of everything I own." And so he made this vow, this covenant with

77:59

Speaker A

Yahweh. Then in in Genesis 31, the angel of the Lord appeared to him in a dream again and said, "Hey Jacob, I am the God of Bethl who you made a vow to. Listen to me." So the angel again claims to be

78:12

Speaker A

Yahweh that appeared to Jacob. Not only that, ladies and gentlemen, guess who is the even the one who even introduced the name Yahweh? Was it the father? Nope. It was the angel of the Lord. The first time we ever see this name Yahweh

78:25

Speaker A

introduced is when the angel of the Lord comes to Jacob, I'm sorry, comes to Moses and says, "Take off your feet. My name is Yahweh." Tell them that Yahweh has sent you. I am has sent you.

78:36

Speaker A

According to the scripture, Yahweh is multi-personal. Thank you. Thank you. Not Notice what he says.

78:49

Speaker A

Yahweh is multi-personal. I I addressed this in my opening. So Yahweh is multi-personal. Jesus is Yahweh, but Jesus is not multipersonal. You see how he's switching? He's equivocating. He's using the name Yahweh in two different senses.

79:06

Speaker A

Then if you're catching this opening, what does he say? Oh, that it's plural. There's a plural creator, so it creates So we have multiple creators, but you have only one God. multiple creators, but you have one God. But one

79:21

Speaker A

God created everything. So he's switching. And then you want to talk about Freudian slip. Listen what he says. He says, and you'll play back.

79:30

Speaker A

You'll hit the playback. You'll see how he he he goes he brushes over this real quick. He says, "The word of Yahweh, the spirit of Yahweh and and the Lord." Hold on, man. It's the It's the You said

79:41

Speaker A

the the word of the Lord, the spirit of the Lord and the Lord. He he he he he dodges over real quick because he knows that the Lord is just the father and that's his word and that's his spirit.

79:51

Speaker A

It belongs to him. It comes forth from him. It's that which he spoke. All right? And and then so this whole idea about like unitarians are dumb and and or we're ignorant or we're not led by the spirit or like whatever it is,

80:04

Speaker A

right? Let me just remind everybody that Jesus Christ has one person who is his God. Jesus Christ says in John 20:17, "Do not cling to me." Jesus said, "For I have not ascended to the father, but go tell my brothers." So he's talking to

80:21

Speaker A

his disciples. Jesus Christ himself, the unitarian Jesus Christ says, I'm ascending to my father and your father.

80:29

Speaker A

To my God and your God. So how many persons is the God of Jesus? One person.

80:35

Speaker A

So I'm a heretic because I have the same God Jesus does. So ask yourself, do you have the same God that Jesus does? If Jesus has one person as his God, but you have three, do you have a different God

80:47

Speaker A

than Jesus? If Jesus God is uniersonal and your God is three persons, do you have the same God that Jesus does? If you want to, go ahead, but don't call me a heretic when I have the same God that

80:59

Speaker A

Jesus Christ does. Then you get into the whole the spirit. The spirit, let's look at how he doesn't want to look at the whole Bible. You don't want to see in John where the spirit and it says it

81:09

Speaker A

rested upon him. It rested upon him because the spirit all throughout the Bible is being described as an it. It's a substance. It falls upon people. Uh God talks about I'm going to take some of this spirit and put it here. I'm

81:21

Speaker A

going to take some of this spirit and put it here. How do you take a person and put some of a person here and some of a person there? You have to make sense of it. You have to really stop and

81:29

Speaker A

be honest with the evidence. If you want to believe the trinity, that's your prerogative. But let's be honest and look at Luke 1:17. So this whole spirit of Christ. So that means somehow he has the Holy Spirit. It's the spirit of the

81:42

Speaker A

father and it's the spirit of Christ. Well, is it the spirit of the spirit?

81:45

Speaker A

You're not making sense of it. And Luke 1:17 and and it talks about and he will go before the Lord in the spirit and power of Elijah.

81:56

Speaker A

So is Elijah now God? Because it talks about the spirit of Elijah. So you have to make sense of the whole of the Bible.

82:03

Speaker A

You can't isolate things out of context. And again, we saw exactly what I knew would happen. He can't when I asked him directly, is God one person or three persons? He would not give an answer. I asked him plain as day five times. Just

82:18

Speaker A

tell me plainly one or three. He knows what happens. Or or how many Yahwehs are there? Right? How many Yahwehs are there? Are there one Yahweh or three Yahwehes? He wouldn't answer the question. He refused to answer the

82:29

Speaker A

question because you know what happens when you say there's three Yahwehs. You're saying there's three gods. If there's one Yahweh, okay? And that Yahweh is three persons, then the father's not Yahweh. The son's not Yahweh. The Holy Spirit's not Yahweh

82:43

Speaker A

because the father's not one person. The Holy Spirit's not one person. And Jesus is not one person.

82:48

Speaker A

And I'll yield my time there. Thank you. Thank you for discussing audience question. I know that's how it works, bro. The heretic Thank you. Um I'm Amelia. I'm Eastern Orthodox and uh so we we were having issues about

83:38

Speaker A

the angel of the Lord. So we do believe that the angel of the Lord is actually Jesus Christ. So early scriptures but actually in Jude 15 referred as a Jesus is the one who took the people of Egypt. And then you have

83:55

Speaker A

early fathers like um Justin M who was confirming all of this. So we have Justin M that was close to the apostles who was claiming all of this and maybe uh Ari can argue a little bit about about all of this more. Thank you.

84:10

Speaker A

Yeah. Thank you. Yeah. Love the Eastern Orthodox. Um so the the question was basically in Jude 15. It it talks about Jesus and it talks about the Old Testament. First, I would say that that's a textual variant. And

84:23

Speaker A

so, there are manuscripts which just read the Lord. And so, when you're referring to the Lord, are you referring to Jesus or are you referring to the father? And you have to determine from context. But one thing I would say is

84:33

Speaker A

like there's one thing to say Jesus is the personal reference God. It's another thing to say he has a divine nature. So, he's God by because he possesses equality. So, he's goddish. He's divine.

84:45

Speaker A

Right? But we have certain controls in all throughout the Bible and especially in Jude which are going to tell us what like the the like what we can say responsibly and what we can't. So in Jude 1, God is identified as the father.

84:59

Speaker A

Those who have been called who are loved in God who is the father. They're an appositional parallel. God just is the father. And then Jude also ends to the only God to the only God our savior through Jesus Christ. So Jude, no matter

85:14

Speaker A

what he's saying or what's going on, there's a very difficult text. There's certain controls that allow us to say things responsibly and certain things where it's kind of vague and we might have to uh do the best we can.

85:26

Speaker A

Just to touch on this a bit. So he's right. There's a textual variant in that text. However, the earliest manuscripts that we have say Jesus. Um now there's no problem with it also saying Lord as well because we all know who the Lord

85:39

Speaker A

is. And in context like he said, you'll have to determine that in verse four it says this. It says [clears throat] it says uh let me see for certain for certain people have crept in unnoticed who long ago were were designated for

85:53

Speaker A

this condemnation. Ungodly people who pervert the grace of our God into sensuality and deny our only master and lord Jesus Christ. So in the context who's the Lord? Jesus Christ. In the earliest manuscripts, what does it say?

86:07

Speaker A

Jesus Christ. So it doesn't matter if it was Jesus or Lord. We all know who it's talking about. And so either way you go, it was Jesus who back then saved the people from the land of Egypt who would

86:16

Speaker A

be the angel of the Lord who is also Yahweh. So your question last words?

86:22

Speaker A

Yeah. I think he says al is also Yahweh. What does that mean? Right. Like I I mean how are you how what do you mean you're also Yahweh? It's like saying like uh Avery is God logic apologetics but somebody is also Avery. What what do

86:36

Speaker A

you mean by that? It's it's unclear what you mean. And you talk about the angel of Yahweh. Again, if you look at the etmology, that has to be someone who's subordinate. It it it it it's impossible for God to be an angel because there's

86:49

Speaker A

nobody superior to God who can commission him to do anything. All right. Uh I just want to bring back uh things back to Acts 3 real quick. Um I don't think you were really able to show where it was demonstrated that uh

87:02

Speaker A

the verse was qualifying it as eternal life. Um, but I see a couple other problems even aside from that one. Even if it was even if it said eternal life, how under the Unitarian framework can Jesus possibly be called the author of

87:15

Speaker A

eternal life as opposed to like the mere mediator or facilitator of it. But number two, uh, which I think is the bigger issue uh, in verse 12, just one verse before the one that you said, this is obviously in the context of St. Peter

87:26

Speaker A

and St. John when the lame man was healed. um they say how do you look at us as if this was done through our own power or or godliness and then verses 13 to 15 it says that it's obviously

87:38

Speaker A

talking about Jesus uh and then verse 16 it says um uh how is this done so through our own power godliness and then it says in verse 16 that it was done by his name referring to Jesus because

87:50

Speaker A

that's who 13 to 15 is talking about by his name that this man was healed and that's in the so it clearly juxtaposes Jesus versus the disciples in the context of power and specifically godliness.

88:04

Speaker A

And you're talking about you're talking about again in Acts three. Yes. Okay. Yeah. So when you do something in somebody's name, you're doing it in their authority.

88:13

Speaker A

It says it's in Jesus's name, right? So it's done in Jesus' name, but it's but it's to to do something in anybody's name.

88:19

Speaker A

His power and godliness, right? In well in his power. So to to to do something in the name of somebody is to do it through their authority.

88:27

Speaker A

So Jesus was given all authority in heaven and earth. He says this. He says, "I was I've been given all authority and power." How was God given authority and power? So yeah, Jesus is given all authority and power over everything. I

88:41

Speaker A

agree with that. He's empowered with that. And now people are acting in the name of Jesus.

88:46

Speaker A

What's that? He was given godliness. What do you mean godliness? Okay. Yeah. Verse 12.

89:00

Speaker A

I I guess it depends what you mean godliness. It's just saying that there's like a quality that he has, but he's not God by identity. The God Jesus the Acts the the controlling factors we read that Jesus Christ was a man empower anointed

89:15

Speaker A

by God, right? Jesus Christ was a man whom who who God empowered to act, right? I I forget the verse, so my brain's a little after dealing with this guy. Uh but the the Bible says that Jesus was a man attested by God by

89:30

Speaker A

signs, miracles, and wonders which God did through him, not because he was God. No. Can I follow up? So read out.

89:39

Speaker A

All right. Excellent debate. All right. I have a question for you. Um so scripture says, "No one has seen God at any time." In John 1:18, the Greek grammar presents a universal negative.

89:49

Speaker A

No one has seen God at any time. But then we see in Numbers 12:es 6-8 that Moses saw what the Hebrew expresses according to Hebrew scholars the form of God. So how do you deal with this apparent contradiction if God is not

90:02

Speaker A

multi-personal? Yeah, that's a great question. But I think it creates a problem for you guys.

90:09

Speaker A

And I'll tell you why. Because the New Testament is clear. No one has ever seen God. You agree? Right. So did people see Jesus in the Old Testament?

90:17

Speaker A

Yeah. There you go. No, the Bible's clear. No one has ever seen God. But you say he saw Jesus and you say Jesus is God.

90:26

Speaker A

Yeah. You don't That's not a contradiction. I believe that the God reference in John 18. [snorts] But no one has ever seen God. Does it qualify?

90:35

Speaker A

Yeah. Cuz it because it says it says but it says but again no one has ever seen God.

90:41

Speaker A

And you're saying they saw Jesus and Jesus is God. I I can't help you bro. Like I can't help you bro. I I can't understand it for you as they say. Now when you talk about the context of the gospel of John, when

90:53

Speaker A

you're talking about seeing God, it's about comprehending him. Why? Because the logos executed him. It explained him. It made him known. The the context is you can't point to me and say there's God or there's God. But you can point to

91:04

Speaker A

the rational order in the cosmos and that's how you understand that there is a God. That's what became flesh in Jesus and continued to reveal his God.

91:12

Speaker A

So walk away. Let me say something. I again you got to make sense of the evidence. So uh Moses says that Moses actually saw the backside of God.

91:22

Speaker A

It says he saw the father. He says, "You can see me as I walk away, which Paul reveals to the old uh a parallel of the old covenant, right?" Yeah. Yeah. So, uh in John 1:18, it does qualify who it's talking about. It says

91:32

Speaker A

the father specifically, which is why this is a problem. It says, "No one has seen God at at any time. The only God who is at the father's side. He has made him known." So, the God who hasn't been

91:43

Speaker A

seen is the father specifically. And so, you'll have to deal with that, which you didn't give him an answer. He's asking, okay, if no one has seen God, which is the father, well, in your unitarian view, only God is the father. He's no no

91:54

Speaker A

other person is God. Then who did Moses see? Cuz he saw somebody who was God.

91:59

Speaker A

The scripture says it. I mean, you have to make sense of it. This is what we have to do when we see things in the Bible. It says, "No one has seen God." Trinity. That makes sense of it.

92:07

Speaker A

No one has seen God. But you're like, "Yeah, but they saw God." I mean, either the Bible contradicts or you're going to have to explain that. for God is multi-personal and the God they saw. the who is God that they saw is

92:17

Speaker A

again but it doesn't it says no one has ever seen God but then you're saying that he is God and then you're saying he saw him it's you you don't but you see that the it's talking about the father

92:27

Speaker A

right but it does it says God yeah no one has seen God and you're saying Jesus is God the only god who is at the father's side he has made him known specific the monogous god so the the the another god

92:39

Speaker A

made that god known the unique god made the father known so one god made another god known one person who so no one has ever seen the supreme god but another god made him known not given any answer to the question who

92:51

Speaker A

you say god is multipersonal so who did Moses see uh I mean Moses saw the father but he only saw the backside of the father never seen the father yes because in the context of John it's about comprehending the father that's

93:04

Speaker A

why Jesus says when you see me you see the father what does he mean it means he's revealing the father through his actions the the character of the father is being revealed when you see me. So you have to look at John. You have to

93:17

Speaker A

understand what seeing means in the context of John. It's about intellectual perception of something.

93:26

Speaker A

Oh, sorry. Uh, appreciate you guys obviously both being here, but you you've been saying a couple different times and make sense and to trinitarians it kind of does make sense. So he brought up Hebrews 3 earlier about the

93:35

Speaker A

Holy Spirit. So, I won't go to the Holy Spirit, but I am curious cuz obviously we would agree that, you know, the father is God. But when the father is speaking in Hebrews chapter 1, there's a lot of different verses. Verses 1-7,

93:46

Speaker A

he's talking about angels. But then he gets down and I'll try to not read the whole entire chapter, but obviously read the whole entire chapter. It's really good. But it says in verse 8, "But about the son, he says, this is the father

93:54

Speaker A

talking, "Your throne, oh God, endures forever and ever, and justice is the scepter of your kingdom, and you have loved righteousness and hated wickedness. Therefore, God, your God has anointed you above your companions with oil of joy. And it goes on to, which is

94:09

Speaker A

pretty neat from like verse 10 down, it associates this same God that the father is referring to. It says that in the beginning, oh Lord, you laid the foundations of the earth and the heavens are the work of your hands. But I

94:22

Speaker A

thought from earlier you said only God can be a part of creation or he's the only one who created everything. So I'm I'm curious from your own words, how do you make this make sense?

94:33

Speaker A

That's a great question. Um, I I'll give you an Old Testament prophecy which I believe this is fulfilling. And the first thing to do when you're looking at Hebrews 1:10, you have to understand he's quoting from the Septuagent. The

94:44

Speaker A

Septuagent uh has a a word that's in the Hebrew with the unpointed text which can be interpreted one of two ways. It can mean that somebody is afflicted or it can mean he answered. In the original Psalm he's referring to, Psalm 102, it's

94:58

Speaker A

a man speaking to God the whole time, the afflicted man. In the Septuagent, God speaks back to the man. Now look at Isaiah. You said only God can be involved in creation. Right?

95:10

Speaker A

Right. So Isaiah of Isaiah, this is why you have to qualify. He talks about like life and new life. Isaiah 51:16.

95:18

Speaker A

And I have put my words in your mouth and covered you with the shadow of my hand.

95:25

Speaker A

Uh, and he says to and he's he's putting the words in someone's mouth to establish the heavens and to found the earth. What we're talking about is the new creation. When you look in Hebrews 2:5, it said it talks about the world

95:37

Speaker A

that is to come, which is the subject matter of this letter. So, it's talking about in Isaiah 51:16, God's going to put his words in the mouth of this person to establish the heavens and earth. How do you establish the heavens

95:49

Speaker A

and the earth if they've already been established? I'll hold it. Okay. Hi, Andrew. Hey, I'm just a simple man here, man. In John 1:1, do you agree the verse says the word is God?

96:10

Speaker A

Okay. Um, so do you agree the word is Jesus? No. So when the word became to dwell with them in verse 14, is that still God?

96:25

Speaker A

Um so again this this is where you have two different senses of the word and you create a problem when you're using in the same sense. If you say in the beginning was the father and the and the

96:35

Speaker A

word was with the father and the word was the father. It doesn't make sense, right? So because you're because you have to that's how you would read it if you're using the word God in the same sense. All grimarians agree that theos

96:49

Speaker A

in John John 1:1C is a qualitative predicate. It's describing the nature of the word. It's not ref it's not a personal reference to a personal acting subject. No one has ever seen God. The word was with God. For God so loved the

97:02

Speaker A

world. That's a personal reference. It's describing the quality of a God. It's it's it's used adjectively uh almost like an adjective like the word was divine or the word was God. But again there's a lot of philosophy behind that.

97:15

Speaker A

I believe I believe there's a lot of evidence that John is uh inspired by a Jewish hellenistic philosopher named Pho of Alexandria who already made this distinction. He says when go when you use God in the proper sense you're

97:29

Speaker A

referring to the one who is but when you use it in a catechistic sense you're referring uh you you can use it he what he means by God here he means his most ancient word. So there's two different

97:39

Speaker A

ways you can use God like men can be called gods and god the father who was a personal uh reference personal acting subject is god. So the word god is being used in two different senses. If you say

97:50

Speaker A

it's the same sense you you would have to say in the beginning was the father the word and the word was with the father and the word was the father.

97:55

Speaker A

That's modalism, right? So, you have to That's what I mean. The God is used in different senses. It can use to describe something or refer to a personal reference.

98:04

Speaker A

And so, with John 1, it's it's such a killer because it uses God in reference to the father and then also uses God in reference to the nature of the word, showing that he has the same nature as

98:16

Speaker A

the father, which would then either put you in polytheism if you're a unitarian. You have to believe that the word is another God beside the father. Or if you're a trinitarian, you believe that the word is God share sharing the same

98:31

Speaker A

essence as the father. So this would put you guys in a conundrum of polytheism, which it says about the word that he created all thing. All things are created through him. So it shows that he's eternal and infinite. So you have

98:45

Speaker A

another being that is God or divine that's not the father that's separate from the father in essence that would be two gods in your view final words.

99:00

Speaker A

Yeah. Again the word god. So the the idea behind it is that no again in the in the gospel no one has ever seen god.

99:08

Speaker A

You can't go outside and show me there's god or there's god or there's god.

99:12

Speaker A

You're pointing to the rational order of nature which explains that a god exists. You can only understand God by understanding the rational order of the cosmos. You can't see God. You can't show me God. That's the idea. It it

99:25

Speaker A

serves as God, but it's not the person of God. It's an an expression of his own mind.

99:34

Speaker A

My question is to you God logic again. Awesome. Um okay. So, regarding Andrew's appeal to Jesus' claim that the father is his God in John 20:17, given more time, would you have referenced or could you briefly expand on uh apostate of Allah's

99:50

Speaker A

go-to verse Jeremiah 32 27 regarding God being the God of all flesh? Yep. Every time you do, give me something longer, man, next time. [laughter] But could you expand?

100:02

Speaker A

Yeah. Yeah. Sure. Sure. Yeah. Yeah. Hey, see there. There we go. Um, so yes, uh, yeah, Jesus has a God in reference to his human nature. So Jeremiah 32:27 says God is the God of all flesh. And so when Christ, who is

100:18

Speaker A

God, also takes on flesh. Then the dynamic with his father, that's what happens is that the father becomes his God. And this is reflected in Psalm 22 uh, verse 6 where it says that it's from my mother's womb you have been my God.

100:32

Speaker A

Not before. So once Jesus takes on flesh, that's when the father becomes his god pertaining to his flesh. Now this doesn't mean that Jesus is a a separate god from the father or anything like that. But this is relational that

100:44

Speaker A

the father is now his ruler over him. Okay. Yeah. I mean see how he switched he has to what what do you mean the god of his flesh but not the god I mean flesh doesn't speak on its own. Persons speak.

100:57

Speaker A

The person is speaking saying I have a god but it's like you don't believe him.

101:00

Speaker A

You have to switch. Well, he has a person who is who who who, you know, he submits to the father as his God. Jesus says throughout the Bible. Look at Revelation 3:12. I I'm waiting from the New Jerusalem from my God. I'm ascending

101:14

Speaker A

to my God. Jesus has a God. I mean, this person is speaking. Flesh doesn't speak on its own. Person speak like your body.

101:20

Speaker A

If there's no person in it, what happens? It just starts speaking. So, it's a it's a it's a poor explaining away of the clear fact Jesus has one person who is his God. But I'm a heretic because I have one person who's my God.

101:35

Speaker A

Yeah. So, um it's interesting you bring up Revelations 3 where Jesus in heaven is still calling the father his God.

101:42

Speaker A

Why? Because in heaven Jesus is still in flesh. He's still in glorified flesh. Matter of fact, in Revelations 22, Jesus says still, he says, "I am not I was, but he says I am the alpha and the omega, the first and the last, the

101:55

Speaker A

beginning and the end. I am the root and the offspring of David." So still to this to this day Jesus is the offspring of David. In order to be the offspring he still has to be in flesh. So again

102:07

Speaker A

Jeremiah 32 says that God is the God of all flesh. Once Jesus you and the Bible's clear that there was a point in time where Jesus took on flesh. Once he took on flesh that's when that d that

102:19

Speaker A

that dynamic of relationship with the father and the son happened where the father is is his god pertaining to his flesh.

102:25

Speaker A

People are not just people are not just flesh. Les doesn't walk around. I have final word.

102:33

Speaker A

Oh yeah. Yeah, I do. [laughter] That's it. All right, let's give it up for God.

102:42

Speaker A

[applause]

Topics: Trinity Unitarianism Yahweh Holy Spirit Bible debate Hebrew grammar Old Testament John 1 apologetics theology

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