**I Had To END THIS DEBATE After This Muslim QUIT Face-To-Face... โ€” Transcript & Summary | SozAI** Source: https://sozai.app/transcript/debate-ends-after-muslim-quits-face-to-face/ A debate on whether the Quran contradicts the Bible, centering on the 'Islamic dilemma' and whether the Quran explicitly says the Bible is preserved. ## Key Takeaways - The core dispute is whether the Quran explicitly claims the Bible is preserved and intact, or only implies it. - Both sides rely heavily on interpreting Quranic references to the Torah and Gospel, with little agreement on terms. - The 'Islamic dilemma' argument frames the Quran as falsified by either contradicting a true Bible or endorsing a corrupted one. - The debate often stalls over definitional issues such as preservation, presence, and what counts as an explicit textual claim. ## What the video covers - The debate opens with the claim that the Quran contradicts the Bible, while the Quran presents itself as correcting earlier scriptures. - The Christian speaker asks where the Quran explicitly says it corrects the Bible, arguing the point is only implied. - Discussion centers on Quran 4:157, which says Jesus was not killed or crucified but 'made to appear' so, contrasted with Biblical crucifixion accounts. - The speaker challenges whether the Quran says the Injil (Gospel) or the Torah is corrupted, and what the Gospel referenced in the Quran actually is. - The Muslim speaker argues the Quran establishes the Torah, Psalms and Gospel as authoritative and that the Quran refers to them as present with the People of the Book. - A key dispute is whether 'present' entails 'preserved' and 'intact'; the Christian speaker says the Quran never explicitly states perfect preservation. - The debaters disagree on whether logical inferences are acceptable and whether 'verbatim fallacy' claims are fair. - The discussion shifts to whether the Quran refers to a single Injil and whether a lost book can be considered preserved. - The speaker frames the Islamic dilemma: if the Bible is authentic the Quran contradicts it, and if corrupted the Quran wrongly endorses a corrupted book. - The video ends with the speaker asking the opponent to actually establish the Islamic dilemma rather than debating side points. ## Chapters 1. 00:00 Opening claim: Quran contradicts the Bible 2. 00:46 Does the Quran explicitly claim to correct the Bible? 3. 05:02 Debating whether the Quran addresses the existing text 4. 09:59 Is the Bible 'preserved'? Presence vs. intactness 5. 17:00 Which Gospel (Injil) does the Quran refer to? 6. 23:00 Quran 4:157 and the crucifixion dispute 7. 30:00 Formalizing the Islamic dilemma Answers ## Questions about this video What is the 'Islamic dilemma' presented in the video? The speaker argues that if the Bible is authentic and the Quran contradicts it, the Quran is false; if the Bible is corrupted, the Quran is still false for calling a corrupted book true. The Muslim debater is challenged to prove this framework. Does the Quran explicitly say the Bible is preserved? The debate concludes that the Quran says the People of the Book have the Torah and Gospel in their possession, but the speakers disagree on whether this explicitly means they are perfectly preserved or intact. What verse about Jesus's crucifixion is discussed? The speaker cites Quran 4:157, which says those who claimed to have killed the Messiah son of Mary did not kill or crucify him, but it was 'made to appear' so to them. ## Full Transcript โ€” Download SRT & Markdown 00:00 Speaker A You say the Quran contradicts the Bible, but God told us it's correcting the Bible. 00:05 Speaker A Where does Allah say he's correcting the Bible? For example, when he says that Jesus was not killed or crucified, it was made to appear. So, where does he say that he's correcting the Bible? Then it's obviously implied. 00:16 Speaker A Where does Allah say he's correcting the Bible? For example, when he says that Jesus was not killed or crucified, it was made to appear. So, where does he say that he's correcting the Bible? Then it's obviously implied. 00:20 Speaker A Is there a mention that says the angel is corrupted in any way, shape, or form? 00:24 Speaker A Is the Gospel revealed by Allah? What is the Gospel? So now we don't know what the Gospel is. 00:34 Speaker A That's not my argument. That's your representation of my argument. My argument was the Quran refutes something that's in the Bible. That was my argument. 00:41 Speaker A Is there a mention that says the Injil is corrupted in any way, shape, or form? 00:46 Speaker A So it's addressing the text. Not necessarily specific. Not necessarily text, but it's addressing the text. 00:54 Speaker A Again, that is a verbatim fallacy. No, it's not. You brought this argument up as if the Quran is addressing the text they have. 01:13 Speaker A uh it's authoritative. And if these scriptures are corrupted, if they're false in any way, then that would mean that the Quran is false for disagreeing or contradicting them. Um, if they're false, then the Quran is still false for 01:28 Speaker A That's not my argument. That's your representation of my argument. My argument was the Quran refutes something that's in the Bible. That was my argument. 01:39 Speaker A is good. Quite a simplistic argument. Yeah. A lot of overextension there. Yeah. Um, where you said preserved though, so let's be specific. Where does the Quran mention that the Bible was preserved explicitly? Especially since you like extremely explicit wording and you never 01:54 Speaker A So you just said the Quran is addressing the text, right? It refutes something that's in the Bible. 02:09 Speaker A that were altered. But go ahead. Where is it preserved specifically? That's it's the Quran that put you through that loop, man. I'm I'm saying I'm just going with what it says, bro. 02:17 Speaker A So it's addressing the text. Not necessarily specific. Not necessarily text, but it's addressing the text. 02:20 Speaker A Yeah. So it says that they have the scriptures with them. They have the Torah and they have the gospel with them in their possession. 02:25 Speaker A All right, guys. So, we're doing the Islamic dilemma. It's a pretty clear, straightforward argument. I believe that the Quran establishes the Bible, the Torah, the Gospel, and the Psalms, as the standard of truth. And it's preserved. It's authoritative. And if these scriptures are corrupted, if they're false in any way, then that would mean that the Quran is false for disagreeing or contradicting them. If they're false, then the Quran is still false for saying that false books are true. So, if the Torah, Gospel, and Psalms, if the Bible is good, then the Quran is false. If they're bad, then the Quran is still false for saying that a bad book is good. 02:28 Speaker A You did mention that the Quran it teaches that they're preserved. So if they have them in their possession and they're preserved. 02:34 Speaker A Quite a simplistic argument. 02:43 Speaker A For something to be preserved means that it's intact. Yes. Okay. But for something to be present does not entail being preserved. 02:50 Speaker A Yeah. A lot of overextension there. 02:59 Speaker A Could it be here but not perfectly preserved like the Bible for example. It's it's a good example of that. 03:04 Speaker A Yeah. Where you said preserved, though, so let's be specific. Where does the Quran mention that the Bible was preserved explicitly? Especially since you like extremely explicit wording and you never accept logical inferences. 03:15 Speaker A that the Bible is not only present but preserved. That's central to your argument. Okay. So again I already broke down uh being preserved means that something is intact and something is present. 03:28 Speaker A No, I do accept logical inferences. 03:40 Speaker A Where does it say intact? So it says that they have the scriptures with them present and yeah presently and that they can read these scriptures. So they're intact and they're present for them to read and they can get the truth out. 03:51 Speaker A No, hardly. Just like you've put the last guy through a lot of obstacles to jump through for accepting that the Quran can definitely be talking about the Bible as one of the scriptures that were altered. But go ahead. Where is it preserved specifically? 03:58 Speaker A If the scriptures I I think it is too. I don't understand the confusion. It is. 04:02 Speaker A That's the Quran that put you through that loop, man. I'm just going with what it says, bro. 04:09 Speaker A Authoritative. Yes. Uh-huh. And they're preserved then that means that they have it correct. Some version of it. 04:17 Speaker A Please answer the question. Where does it say it's preserved? I just want to know that. 04:28 Speaker A And I said, as I mentioned, it's a simplistic argument with overextension. It necessitates that the gospels, the is what it's called, by the way. It does not independently reference Matthew, Mark, you know, and Luke and uh uh and 04:43 Speaker A Yeah. So it says that they have the scriptures with them. They have the Torah, and they have the Gospel with them in their possession. 04:55 Speaker A references to them um you know referring to it. But none of those references explicitly entail that it's perfectly preserved at all. 05:05 Speaker A What does it say? Perfectly preserved is my question. 05:16 Speaker A Okay. So your argument fails. Well you you can say that. Um, so saying that, oh, it doesn't verbatim say uh that it's peruh perfectly preserved is a that's a verbatim fallacy. I never said that. What my argument is is that the 05:28 Speaker A I didn't say that. It said perfectly preserved. 05:34 Speaker A Okay, that's what I'm saying. It does not for Okay, there we go. So, now let's get into the nitty-gritty then. So, you're saying that it doesn't say that it's present. So, when it says that the Torah and Gospel are with them, can you 05:44 Speaker A You did mention that the Quran teaches that they're preserved. So if they have them in their possession and they're preserved. 05:53 Speaker A there right? The Injil um and the are there. Okay, so the Torah and Gospel are present. 06:00 Speaker A False. That's an overextension. All right. So for something to be preserved means that it's present. It's intact. That's what preservation means, right? You agree with that? 06:06 Speaker A We'll get we'll get there next. We'll get there next. Okay. Um so we acknowledge that the Quran says that these scriptures are present. 06:13 Speaker A For something to be preserved means that it's intact. Yes. 06:20 Speaker A What does it say parts? The the expression revealed therein as it relates to the Bible. The specific in the gospel in in the gospel, sorry. Uh revealed therein. That means in the gospel from from what you have what's revealed 06:35 Speaker A Okay. But for something to be present does not entail being preserved. 06:46 Speaker A My question is this. Yeah. Is the gospel revealed by Allah? What is the gospel? We have to define what that is first. 06:53 Speaker A Yeah. Because do you agree with that? 07:01 Speaker A Before we get there, cuz I I want to ask what's the injil that's going to be next. First, can we establish that the Injil is a revelation of Allah according to the Quran. 07:10 Speaker A No. No. It has to be present for it to be preserved. Or like, a lost book is not preserved. It's lost. It's not preserved. It's not here. 07:17 Speaker A The Quran references one injeil. Thank you. So stop pretending like according to the Quran there's some other injeil out there. I'm not pretending. 07:24 Speaker A Could it be here but not perfectly preserved, like the Bible, for example? It's a good example of that. 07:30 Speaker A Okay. So in the Quran though they had it presently right in Muhammad's time they had uh the they had access to verses of it that were revealed. We don't know if they had access to all of it in its preserved 07:41 Speaker A The Bible's not a good example of that. It's a great example, because the Bible is preserved and present, like what the Quran is saying. That's the whole point. I need you to establish explicitly, since you like explicit establishments, that the Quran mentions that the Bible is not only present but preserved. That's central to your argument. 07:54 Speaker A Uh I'd like to go to the specific chapter 7 verse 157. Oh, this is the one where it mentions that it's written with them. Yeah. Okay. 08:02 Speaker A Okay. So again, I already broke down that being preserved means that something is intact and something is present. So if it is intact and it is present, therefore it is preserved. So the Quran makes blatant statements that the scriptures are intact and preserved. 08:09 Speaker A They have a gospel that is with them. Yes. Whether or not it's perfectly complete is left to be answered. 08:16 Speaker A Where does it say intact? 08:19 Speaker A I am. Does it say that they have a gospel with them or does it say they have the gospel with them? 08:24 Speaker A So it says that they have the scriptures with them, present, and that they can read these scriptures. So they're intact and they're present for them to read, and they can get the truth out. 08:31 Speaker A Very simple. Does it say they have the gospel with them? In Arabic, it uses probably. 08:38 Speaker A They can read what's present without it being fully intact. 08:44 Speaker A Yeah. But whether or not it's perfectly preserved is is a separate matter that you have not yet to say. 08:49 Speaker A No, it does. Okay, I don't know how we're mixing this up. 08:57 Speaker A And they have to judge by what Allah revealed in the gospel. Correct. Y I'm not I'm not denying from the onset that the Christians have revelation from God. That's been my position. Clearly, Islamically, you have to accept that 09:10 Speaker A If the scriptures... I think it is too. I don't understand the confusion. It is. 09:19 Speaker A That's what the Quran says. Quran does not say that. Okay. So, where does the Quran where does the Quran say that the angel is corrupted? 09:24 Speaker A So if you have the scriptures, that's there, and they're authoritative, and they're present. 09:41 Speaker A We don't English speakers don't know what that means. Yeah but I'm saying the word in Arabic and then I can translate it. There's no problem. 09:46 Speaker A Authoritative. Yes. Uh-huh. 09:49 Speaker A They it mentions You know what? I'll speak in even plain cuz I don't really like getting into uh verbatim fallacies actually. I'd much rather stay in more logical sort of discussion if you're down. It mentions very clearly that 10:01 Speaker A And they're preserved, then that means that they have it correct. Some version of it. 10:08 Speaker A Ah the verbatim fallacy again. It mentions that there are scriptures that were concealed. That's not a verbatim fallacy. If you make the claim and then I ask you where it says that, that's not me making a verbatim fallacy. It's me checking you 10:21 Speaker A Okay. So are you... I don't know. Can you give me a pushback on what I'm saying? Because, yeah, your argument necessitates, and this is where the Islamic dilemma fails. As I mentioned, it's a simplistic argument with overextension. It necessitates that the Gospels, which is what it's called, by the way, do not independently reference Matthew, Mark, Luke, and John. So it mentions that they have a text, that it is revealed by God, that they should uphold it, and that they should, in the case of the Torah, judge by it. And a few other references to them, referring to it. But none of those references explicitly entail that it's perfectly preserved at all. 10:36 Speaker A referring specifically to the when talking about the let me finish the statement. Oh my gosh. 10:41 Speaker A Okay. And you can't argue that it is based on it just being present, because, as you mentioned, presence is one aspect of preservation, but it is not fully encompassing. 10:52 Speaker A Again, that is the that is a verbatim fallacy. Just like the one you're contradicting to prove that the Quran doesn't mention that any that the specific I am. If you allow me to get my words out. 11:07 Speaker A Okay. So your argument fails. 11:11 Speaker A You've been talking this whole time. I haven't. We've been engaging. You've been You've been talking. 11:15 Speaker A Well, you can say that. So saying that it doesn't verbatim say that it's perfectly preserved is a verbatim fallacy. I never said that. What my argument is, is that the Quran teaches that the previous scriptures are preserved. They're intact. They're authoritative. 11:27 Speaker A inferable meaning. So when the Quran says there are previous revelations that have been concealed, that have been altered, that have been textually, um, meaningwise, um, hidden, all these different verses that I'm happy to pull them up one by one, but your argument 11:44 Speaker A Okay, that's what I'm saying. It does not... Okay, there we go. So now let's get into the nitty-gritty. You're saying that it doesn't say that it's present. So when it says that the Torah and Gospel are with them, can you... 11:55 Speaker A You made your point. And it applies and extends. So enough of the misrepresentation. What you have done what you have done is you have straw man my argument. I never said it has to say this this or this or it's not saying 12:08 Speaker A I say present. I did not say present. 12:14 Speaker A Go ahead. Okay. That's not what I'm saying. That's not what I said to anybody here. What I am asking for is for you to show me anywhere where the Quran is teaching that the Inil or the Torah have been 12:27 Speaker A Okay. So you agree with me that the scriptures are present with them, some form of them. 12:42 Speaker A corrupted? Not verbally corrupted, not misinterpreted. Not can hidden textually corrupted examples of corruption you just named. 12:52 Speaker A Yes. 13:02 Speaker A That's show me this that it says that it's concealed. Show me that there's a textual corruption is what I want to see. 13:08 Speaker A Okay, the Torah and the Gospel, right? Not some form, but it says the Torah and the Gospel are there, right? 13:21 Speaker A contradicts the Bible. So your entire argument relies on the premise that there are parts of the Quran that correct we think in your opinion contradict the Bible but God told us it's correcting the Bible. So without having to go to specifics there are 13:36 Speaker A The Injil, um, and the, are there. 13:49 Speaker A words, but that he's appealing to what's said in the scripture and therefore is correcting the scripture. 13:54 Speaker A Okay, so the Torah and Gospel are present. 14:06 Speaker A you why this is? So according to the verse, okay, I I'll try. In 4157, what does it say? 14:12 Speaker A Notice how the Gospel isn't necessarily the Bible that we have currently in its perfect form with all of its words. 14:16 Speaker A I can quote it for you. I'll quote it for you. It says, "And for their saying, for their saying, we killed the Messiah, son of Mary." Mhm. 14:26 Speaker A We'll get there next. We'll get there next. 14:33 Speaker A Is that correct? I'm not going to help you build your argument. No, you're already helping me present it. I will address it. This is going to be my approach. 14:39 Speaker A Okay. So we acknowledge that the Quran says that these scriptures are present. 14:43 Speaker A Don't be scared to engage. Now, I meant to say this earlier. Don't be afraid to engage any of your premises for you. I require you to establish your argument and then I will evaluate your arguments for their marriage and the audience can 14:55 Speaker A Sure. 15:06 Speaker A addressing what scripture says based on the verse? I can answer that, but I would like you to complete your argument and then I'll answer. Please answer. 15:14 Speaker A They're authoritative because it tells them to judge by it. 15:18 Speaker A You're going to be engaging. I know how you work. You work on false inferences over extensions that build to come out with a logical fallacy. So, I'm not going to build your for No, you're not reading the Quran for finish the 15:31 Speaker A Correct. The parts of them that were revealed therein. 15:37 Speaker A Finish your argument and I'll answer your question. It looks like you're done. Finish your argument. Thank you. 15:41 Speaker A What does it say, "parts"? 15:47 Speaker A Thank you. If you don't want to engage, we can move on to the next. 15:49 Speaker A The expression "revealed therein," as it relates to the Bible. The specific... in the Gospel, sorry. "Revealed therein." That means in the Gospel, from what you have, what's revealed by Allah. 15:53 Speaker A If he's not going to engage, we can move on. So, we can give him a chance, but you're the moderator. 15:57 Speaker A Is the Gospel revealed by Allah? A Gospel was revealed by Allah. Does it say "a Gospel," or "revealed therein"? So it's pointing to some specific revelation. 16:05 Speaker A You will engage. So here's the question again in 457 when it says and for their saying we killed the Messiah son of Mary is it addressing scripture or is it addressing the utterance of people? 16:20 Speaker A My question is this. Is the Gospel revealed by Allah? What is the Gospel? We have to define what that is first. 16:31 Speaker A Okay, I need you to establish for me where it's addressing the scriptures in that. 16:35 Speaker A So now we don't know what the Gospel is. 16:41 Speaker A Right. Okay. Is it in scripture that Jesus was? Show me where it says. Excuse me. Show me where it says in this context that it's addressing not just what they say, but also what their scriptures say. Show me that in that 16:55 Speaker A Of course, that's the whole issue with the reason for the Quran. Can we just... because there was confusion about what the Gospel is? Before we get there, because I want to ask, what's the Injil that's going to be next? First, can we establish that the Injil is a revelation of Allah according to the Quran? The Injil is a revelation of Allah. 16:58 Speaker A Can you show me that in the context? Is it brother? You're trying to establish whether or not the scripture includes that Jesus was crucified. I need you to engage. 17:04 Speaker A Ail that is. Does it say "ail," or does it say "the Injil"? 17:10 Speaker A Show that in the comments. I'm going to answer it fairly. Does it say in the Bible that Jesus was crucified? 17:14 Speaker A The Quran references one Injil. 17:19 Speaker A The Bible mentions that Jesus was crucified. No, I didn't. That's what that's not my point. You're saying specific vers again. Here it is. All right. Here. Here it is. We can since he's not going to engage. I'm going to 17:29 Speaker A Thank you. So stop pretending like, according to the Quran, there's some other Injil out there. 17:32 Speaker A What the problem what you're doing is you said out on your say that all you want. Let me speak now. Please. 17:38 Speaker A I'm not pretending. 17:51 Speaker A Bible on the crucifixion of Jesus, the Quran is going against the scripture showing that your scriptures corrupted. 17:58 Speaker A Okay. So according to the Quran, it only has one 18:05 Speaker A Textual corruption. Okay. So I represented you correctly. My retort to that was is that you went to a example where the Quran is not even addressing the scripture. It's addressing the claims of people and it separates the claims of people from the 18:19 Speaker A scripture itself. The Quran does that all the time. It says that the people say things that's not in the scripture but as if it is in the scripture. 18:26 Speaker A Correct. So when the Quran is talking about So when the Quran Yeah. That's oral corruption. Right now we're focusing on textual. So you gave this as an example of textual corruption. So my question to you was where is this 18:39 Speaker A dealing with oral what they is it addressing what they orally say or is it addressing what they what is said scripturally? You said it could be both. 18:47 Speaker A So then I asked you okay can you show me contextually that it's dealing with both not just what they say but also what the scripture says. Can you engage with that? 18:56 Speaker A Yes. Because if I have a scripture and it says that Jesus was crucified first of all can we establish whether the scripture says Jesus is crucified? I think that's a fair thing that everybody knows. That's a sincere watcher. Does 19:07 Speaker A the Bible say you're not engaging with what Jesus is crucified? You're not engaging with what I ask. Because if I take this book that now tells me Jesus is crucified and I say Jesus is crucified, am I not saying that Jesus is 19:18 Speaker A crucified while also entailing that it's in my book? Meaning it can be both. Just like I said, crazy. I'm saying the Bible says Jesus is crucified. 19:27 Speaker A You're taking my point deferring it, bro. You're very good at this. That's what you're good at. Not disproving logical emotional. I'm not all right. So now notice what you just did. You gave me a context. 19:42 Speaker A You get that? You gave me a context in which what you're saying is coming from the scripture. So what I'm asking you to do is show me in context that what they're saying is coming from their scripture. I'm saying logically if 19:57 Speaker A you're saying that scripture is the correct scripture and that scripture contains crucifixion and the Quran my only my original argument that you're trying to dispute is I said if the Quran contradicts the Bible it is an example of the Bible having textual corruption. 20:13 Speaker A Yes or no? Is this the debate that we're having right now on this micro? Yes. 20:16 Speaker A Right. Okay. Cool. I don't need to show that the Quran says that the Bible says something in order for the Bible to say something. 20:24 Speaker A Of course you don't. Of course I don't. If it either says it or it doesn't. It either says it or it doesn't. 20:29 Speaker A I got you. Does it say it? That's the question. Not does the Quran say it says it. No. Does it say it? 20:35 Speaker A Okay. All right. We're 20 minutes in. Yeah. We can wrap this up. So, um, it does say it. 20:41 Speaker A Move on with you to get caught. Notice I just let you talk, right? It's not I let you talk, right? I know, but I want you. 20:46 Speaker A So, allow me to talk now. I can't progress when you're being dishonest. I'm being honest. The reason why we can't go further is because you're stuck right here and you can't you're going to be honest enough. You can't even be 20:57 Speaker A honest enough to talk about what your Quran says. Your argument I'll break it down for you one last time and this for the audience. We all get it. They're going to be wowing at you. 21:06 Speaker A You brought this argument up as if the te the Quran is addressing the text they have. That was your argument. It's addressing the text they have. 21:16 Speaker A That's not my argument. That's your representation of my argument. My argument was the Quran refutes something that's in the Bible. That was my argument. 21:23 Speaker A So you just said the Quran is addressing the text, right? It refutes something that's in the Bible. 21:28 Speaker A So it's addressing the text. Not necessarily specific. Not necessarily text, but it's addressing. It's having a different account of what the Bible has an account of. That's what we could get. That's what I'm saying, bro. Yeah. I'm close. We can wrap it up. 21:40 Speaker A So here's here's the closing with this with this guy. This guy just contradicted himself. You contradicted yourself. This is it's my closing. 21:46 Speaker A Oh, I'm sorry. I'm sorry. Yeah, you contradicted yourself. You got yourself in trouble by trying to bring an example of textual corruption that didn't even deal with textual corruption. It didn't even deal with the text at all. It dealt with the claims of 21:58 Speaker A people, not even the claims of the Christians. It's talking about what the Jews claim who claimed they have killed the Messiah. So now they're not even following the gospel. But you tried to appeal to this as if it's addressing the 22:10 Speaker A gospel, this corrupted gospel that we have. So you're butchering yourself. Your book talks about what they say. 22:16 Speaker A Those who say we killed the Messiah, son of Mary, they killed him not, nor did they crucify him, but it was made to appear to them as as as if it happened. 22:26 Speaker A So your Quran is addressing the claims of people, not the text they have. So when you try to say, "Oh, well, this is addressing what the Bible says." No, according to your Quran, it's addressing what the people say. So this is not an 22:40 Speaker A uh an example of textual corruption. It's an example of the Quran going against the claims of people and their lies. Okay? So that's an that's a difference between textual corruption and oral lies that the Quran is addressing. So what you should have done 22:56 Speaker A what you couldn't have done. You wasn't honest enough to do it is you should have done is you you should have admitted okay yeah you know what this isn't addressing what the Bible says or what the gospel says. It's addressing 23:05 Speaker A what disbelieving Jews are saying and the Quran is addressing their claims. What you should have done is said, "Oh, well, you know what? This isn't dealing with textual corruption. This is dealing with the lies that they're saying about 23:15 Speaker A the Messiah. Not the Christians, but disbelieving Jews who claim they killed him." So, this is not textual corruption. It's not corruption at all, unless you're dealing with the lies of of corrupted people. 23:27 Speaker A All right. Of course. Um, what I should have, what you should have done is brought it back to the Islamic dilemma because the Islamic dilemma entails exactly the what we've been discussing that the Quran contradicts or the Bible rather 23:45 Speaker A contradicts the Quran Quran points to a book that contradicts it. Therefore, it is false. That is the summary of the Islamic dilemma. But you just spent your entire 20 minutes with me debating whether or not the Bible contradicts the Quran. Instead of 24:03 Speaker A conceding the very nature of the argument you're trying to further, which is that there are contradictions between the Bible and the Quran, this was merely one of them. But you don't seem to think that this is a you'd rather focus on 24:15 Speaker A whether it was explicitly mentioned that they are saying or that it's written while you in sincerity know that in the Bible it is written that there was the crucifixion of Jesus and multiple accounts and I don't have to pull up the 24:27 Speaker A verses for you. You know them. So instead of using that to further your argument that there is a contradiction, it falls on its face flat. Why? Because the Quran never establishes that the Bible is perfectly preserved. It establishes that Christians had an inil 24:44 Speaker A with them that they should use as a divine source. But whether it's perfectly intact is not is never mentioned and the authority conferred to it is limited in scope as long as it does not contradict the Quran because 25:00 Speaker A the Quran is the final revelation that they should also accept that is a muan over it. So it is to be accepted in context. Wherever contradictions arise, the Quran takes precedent. Therefore, there is no such thing, God logic, as an 25:13 Speaker A Islamic dilemma. All right, we'll end it there. Thanks for coming. Now, final person that hasn't gone yet. You ready? 25:19 Speaker A Just prove the Islamic dilemma. Topics: Quran Bible Islamic dilemma Injil preservation of scripture Quran 4:157 crucifixion of Jesus apologetics debate Tahrif Christianity vs Islam Study this video - [Flashcards from this video](https://sozai.app/tools/ai-flashcard-generator/?from=transcript&id=83248) - [Quiz on this video](https://sozai.app/tools/quiz-generator/?from=transcript&id=83248) Free, made by AI from this transcript. No signup. --- This is the markdown twin of https://sozai.app/transcript/debate-ends-after-muslim-quits-face-to-face/ โ€” the same content, without the markup. Published by SozAI (https://sozai.app). Reuse and quotation are allowed with attribution and a link back. 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