**Армения: страна, которая изменила мою жизнь — Transcript & Summary | SozAI**
Source: https://sozai.app/transcript/armenia-country-changed-life/

A heartfelt conversation with Elena Yagine about how Armenia chose her, her life journey, and the spiritual connection to the Armenian mountains.

## Key Takeaways

- Armenia can deeply impact and transform those who embrace it, even if they were not born there.
- Spiritual and emotional connections to land and nature are vital in understanding one’s identity.
- Challenges of living in Armenia in the early 2000s were significant but fostered resilience and appreciation.
- Mountain climbing in Armenia offers a unique meditative and healing experience.
- Community and cultural ties play a crucial role in personal growth and belonging.

## What the video covers

- Elena Yagine shares her personal story of moving to Armenia and how the country chose her.
- She describes early encounters with Armenians during her childhood in the Soviet era.
- Elena discusses her baptism in the Armenian church and receiving her Armenian name.
- She recounts her marriage, family life, and the challenges of living in Armenia in the early 2000s.
- The video explores Elena's deep spiritual connection to the Armenian mountains, especially Aragats and Ararat.
- She reflects on the healing power of nature and the unique sounds and meditative experience of mountain climbing.
- The conversation touches on the cultural and emotional ties that bind people to their homeland and new homes.
- Elena emphasizes the importance of intention and connection in experiencing Armenia’s landscapes and culture.
- The video also highlights community support during difficult times, including the 2020 Nagorno-Karabakh war.
- Overall, it is a story of love, resilience, and the transformative power of Armenia on an individual’s life.

## Chapters

1. 00:00 Introduction and Early Encounters with Armenia
2. 04:35 Baptism and Armenian Identity
3. 09:55 Living in Armenia: Challenges and Adaptation
4. 15:39 Spiritual Connection to the Mountains
5. 25:54 Mountain Climbing Experiences and Meditation
6. 32:51 Community Support and Cultural Ties
7. 42:12 Reflections on Life, Love, and Armenia’s Influence

Answers

## Questions about this video

Who is Elena Yagine and what is her connection to Armenia?

Elena Yagine is a writer, poet, journalist, and ethnographer who was not born in Armenia but was spiritually and culturally chosen by the country. She moved to Armenia in her twenties, was baptized in the Armenian church, and embraced Armenian identity deeply.

What challenges did Elena face when moving to Armenia?

Elena faced significant difficulties such as limited water supply, lack of modern amenities, and psychological challenges adjusting from life in big cities like Moscow and London to Armenia in the early 2000s.

How does Elena describe her experience with the Armenian mountains?

Elena describes the mountains as sacred temples that bring her closer to herself and God. She finds mountain climbing to be a form of meditation, emphasizing the natural sounds and spiritual connection rather than listening to music.

## Full Transcript — Download SRT & Markdown

00:00

Speaker A

Did you choose Armenia, or did Armenia choose you? We got divorced, but I stayed in Armenia. It is a feeling of absolute love.

00:08

Speaker A

It is not just blood that makes a homeland dear. Lord, please give me the money for Ararat.

00:13

Speaker A

Why Ararat? And how did that happen? The doctor told me there: "God willing, you'll walk in the city without a limp."

00:20

Speaker A

"What mountains? Forget about the mountains." Armenia was, is, and will be. Mountains are temples. In the mountains, we become closer to ourselves and closer to God.

00:31

Speaker A

I wanted people to see through this podcast how interconnected we all are. Maria, we are having such a very candid conversation. I think this is the first time in an interview that I will tell how it all happened.

00:44

Speaker A

You exist, and that is enough. That is exactly what a great number of women are missing. Dear friends, hello. Today in the "Voice of the Soul" studio is a wonderful woman who was not born in Armenia, but I feel that Armenia was

01:00

Speaker A

born within her. A writer, poet, journalist, and ethnographer. I know she is a member of the Writers' Unions of both Russia and Armenia. A woman with a great soul. What do you think, Lena, did you choose Armenia, or did

01:20

Speaker A

Armenia choose you? I think Armenia chose me. It is such a sacred place, because if we speak about Armenia, it appeared in my life very, very early. I moved when I was 22, but that doesn't mean I didn't know about

01:38

Speaker A

Armenia. And it's such an amaz—such an amazing story. It actually begins in kindergarten. I used to go to kindergarten. It was the late Soviet era, and Armenians had arrived to build houses and lay asphalt. And, uh, when my mother took me to kindergarten, we

02:02

Speaker A

would pass by the hotel where these Armenians were staying. And I suffered from diathesis. Basically, I was constantly scratching my hands, and I wasn't allowed to eat sweets. And when I walked past these Armenians, I would say, "Hello." They would say back to me

02:17

Speaker A

, "Hello." And then my mother would leave me at kindergarten. Uh, these Armenians would lift me over the fence, sit me at a table, and feed me candies.

02:27

Speaker A

That’s it. And that was when I learned who Armenians were. And I thought, "My God, what kind, generous sweets they are giving me." But what surprised me then—I’ve told this story in a few interviews already—it surprised me that they fed me candies,

02:44

Speaker A

while they themselves ate some kind of paper. It seemed to me then that they were eating paper, and I wondered why they were eating this paper. Later I found out it was lavash.

02:57

Speaker A

First, tell us how you actually moved. And just a bit about your life. I think people will find it very interesting to listen to. Firstly, for those who also find—not necessarily related to Armenia, it could be a completely

03:10

Speaker A

different place—where they feel this inexplicable calling, yes, that’s first. And secondly, how were you able to—what is it like to live in another country, while still loving the homeland you are forever tied to, and yet also make room for this love for a

03:31

Speaker A

new homeland. When I was studying in Moscow, I met the Armenian community. Well, that was already the late nineties. With the Armenian community, with the Armenian students. We were all roughly the same age. And we had an Armenian-Russian association, a student

03:54

Speaker A

association, which was led by Ivan Vladimirovich Avtandilyan, which, in general, guided all these young people.

04:04

Speaker A

I was in charge of publishing the newspaper, I drew, wrote some texts there. Well, we spent a lot of time together. And one day we went swimming in the Moscow region, in Serebryany Bor. And I took off my cross, put it on a

04:21

Speaker A

stump, we were swimming, and suddenly a magpie landed on that stump. And I watch as it grabs my cross with its beak and flies away. And then my Armenian friends told me, "That’s it, it’s a sign, you need to be baptized

04:35

Speaker A

in the Armenian church." Everything somehow came together so quickly. We went to the Armenian church at Vagankovskoye Cemetery, and I was baptized in that church. And they gave me the Armenian name Yagine. Well, that is, Elena Yagine. Uh-huh.

04:53

Speaker A

And then my meeting with my future husband. Uh, I very quickly—we got married very quickly, literally, maybe a few months after we met. And I remember my first impression when I looked at him. I didn't like him, he

05:13

Speaker A

was very handsome, but for some reason, this—this kind of striking beauty—maybe it scared me, I don't know. But in that moment, my first look at him—on one hand, he seemed so handsome, but I didn't like him, there was some kind

05:30

Speaker A

of dissonance—but on the other hand, something suddenly clicked, that we would have children. I just knew that we would have children.

05:40

Speaker A

So. Well, and we got married, and we had two daughters one after the other.

05:46

Speaker A

And we moved to Armenia. Armenia back in the early 2000s, yes, Armenia had already emerged from that crisis and the difficult situation it found itself in after the earthquake and the first Karabakh war, but there were still difficulties in the 2000s. I remember

06:08

Speaker A

we lived in the center of Yerevan, and water was supplied for only two hours a day. And after Moscow, after London, where we lived for over half a year and where our first daughter was born, moving to Armenia, where it was

06:24

Speaker A

difficult, still quite difficult. And I remember it was very hard; it was psychologically difficult for me because at that time I associated my life with a big city, with certain ambitions, and a desire to achieve something. Well. And so we arrive in

06:44

Speaker A

Armenia, where I, uh, in a bucket, had this piece of wood with a spring wrapped around it. That was an immersion heater. I was boiling water in a bucket to bathe the children. I would guard this bucket so the children

06:58

Speaker A

wouldn't crawl up and accidentally get electrocuted. In general, those difficulties, um, scared me at first.

07:08

Speaker A

But then I remember when I started to step beyond the boundaries that existed within the apartment and looked out at those horizons. And the horizons here are completely different. I am a person of the steppes. And I see this horizon

07:25

Speaker A

—this beautiful, jagged, magical horizon. On one side, the sun rises somewhere near the Ararat mountains, and on the other, the sunset is somewhere near the Aragats mountains.

07:42

Speaker A

Well, and I started to find it attractive. And I remember an invitation from friends to go to Aragats. I didn't know back then that Aragats was the highest point in Armenia at that time. We climbed to the southern peak, went down into the

08:04

Speaker A

crater, climbed to the northern one, at 4,095 meters. And I remember that journey. I was completely unprepared. I was wearing simple sneakers, which I wore into holes on the way back. Well.

08:19

Speaker A

Because that footwear was not suited for such terrain. But I remember this feeling of euphoria, as if I were sitting on top of the world, with clouds below, and some little lake down there, and this crater—just some fantastic, cosmic views. And I remember

08:45

Speaker A

that on my first ascent, maybe from the high altitude, I remember my nose started bleeding. Well, uh, yes, there was euphoria. And then I couldn't even have imagined that, not only would I become addicted to it, but I would find

09:05

Speaker A

a kind of meditation in it, when you walk, talking to yourself, talking to the mountain, talking to God. And that was, of course, amazing. And I remember, I was always even a bit wary of people who go into the mountains, put

09:25

Speaker A

on headphones to listen to some music, and say: "Oh, I'm listening to music and enjoying the views." Uh-huh. I didn't understand those people, because you need to listen to the music of the mountain, when you walk, when the

09:43

Speaker A

stones ring under your feet, when the ice crunches, when you hear the water sounding in the rocks, and that divine music, no headphones can convey it.

09:55

Speaker A

Yeah, that's exactly right. And, most likely, the deciding factor here is the person's intention. And today we had a conversation for literally five minutes. I stopped you, thinking, don't tell me anything, because I want our listeners to hear all of this. And we

10:12

Speaker A

were talking about Mother Armenia. Literally a couple of weeks ago,

10:33

Speaker A

nothing that we have, yes, Mother Armenia. And then I tell you this, and you say to me: "Yes, Ararat is the father." You know, I literally had goosebumps on my body when you said that; in that moment , it was just such a resonance on a

10:52

Speaker A

soul level. And suddenly I had this image of the height of Ararat, its, well, resilience, and the fact that it observes, it watches, and this mountain has survived so much. It has such a memory, so rich, but it still stands.

11:16

Speaker A

And it stands on different sides. It watches over different worlds, different people, but its love is so steadfast in its love, which, well, in my understanding, that is what a father is, who is simply there as a support.

11:37

Speaker A

And you just told me about what it was like for you to climb Ararat. I want to narrow it down a bit here. You told me what climbing means to you in principle . I know that Ararat is not the only

11:54

Speaker A

mountain you have climbed. But right now, I want to specifically focus on Ararat, because I have the feeling— correct me if I’m wrong—that you have some sort of connection with that mountain. Why Ararat? And how did that happen? And what, uh, what kind of

12:12

Speaker A

beginning did it become in your life, just to show how it works. My goal is to show people through you how magic and divine power work, and how it leads us, even when we don't know and when it

12:27

Speaker A

feels like, well, like everything is against us, nothing is working out, but this power is leading us. So, please tell me about that. Maria, we are having such a very candid conversation, and I think this is the first time in

12:44

Speaker A

an interview that I’ll tell how it all happened, because, well, I’ve never touched on this topic enough, well, it was a fairly painful period for me. And now, it’s all behind me, but, um, as I already said, I came to

13:06

Speaker A

Armenia after getting married, and it turns out that after 12 years, we got divorced. We divorced, but I stayed in Armenia. We maintained very good relations. My ex-husband and his family are, you could say, my only relatives in Armenia. But at that moment after

13:28

Speaker A

the divorce, I had this feeling that I needed to pull myself together. Yes. Well, of course, it’s a stress for everyone. And I had the idea to go to Ararat. I always wanted to, I always looked at it; I understood that now, by

13:48

Speaker A

the will of history, it seems close, but it’s so far that you have to cross several borders to get to the side where it’s possible to climb it.

14:00

Speaker A

It’s not like it used to be when Khachatur Abovyan just went out and headed toward Ararat, and it was right there. And so, I planned an ascent of Ararat because it truly felt like it was calling to me. And you noted

14:16

Speaker A

correctly: Armenia is the mother, Ararat is the father, and we live, one could say, in this cradle, in the cradle of the Armenian Highlands. I started preparing. I made friends with the guys from the Armenian Mountaineering Federation. We started

14:31

Speaker A

hiking in the mountains. Every weekend we were in the mountains, and we had a hike to Trchkan waterfall, and there were some very slippery rocks there.

14:44

Speaker A

When, one could say, there were 4 months left until our ascent of Ararat, I slipped near the Trchkan waterfall, and I twisted my leg so badly that my meniscus just locked up, and a ligament was torn. I remember they first brought

15:06

Speaker A

me to the Spitak hospital, where I received first aid, then they took me to Yerevan, to Erebuni Hospital, and everything after that was a blur. Uh, they removed a ligament and my meniscus . I just sat there in that wheelchair.

15:23

Speaker A

The doctor told me: "God willing, you'll be able to walk in the city without a limp, but mountains—forget about the mountains." For me, that was just the absolute collapse of all my plans and ideas. The guys from the

15:39

Speaker A

mountaineering federation supported me a lot; they visited me in the hospital. I remember when I was discharged from the hospital, while I was still in all those bandages, we went to Nagorno-Karabakh, to Vank. They went up the mountain, and they helped me as

15:57

Speaker A

much as possible to climb, limping along, and where it was impossible, they carried me, just to get me higher.

16:06

Speaker A

That was a very powerful form of support. Then, uh, I was introduced to an elderly man, a former Soviet coach who used to gather with other former athletes, I suppose, in Tsitsernakaberd Park. They would meet there around 7:00

16:26

Speaker A

in the morning, running, using pull-up bars, doing push-ups, and they brought me into this team. And, uh, they told me that I would go, that I would climb Ararat. I said: "How?" My leg is just hanging there, I can't even walk. Right

16:43

Speaker A

. And so my training began. They made me run up to Tsitsernakaberd, well, it’s a climb, on half-bent legs. So that I would build up the muscles that would support my knee. These grown-ups, these strong adults, gave me the drive

17:02

Speaker A

to believe that I would be on Ararat, despite an injury that leaves so many people, well, you could say, unable to move normally. Every morning we arrived at Tsitsernakaberd. I would run up that hill on half-bent legs. My muscles were

17:25

Speaker A

getting stronger and stronger. In short , in three months, just as they promised, I would be on Aragats. After three months, I completed four peaks of Aragats in one day. That is quite difficult. And four months later, I was

17:43

Speaker A

at the summit of Ararat. But there was another difficulty as well. The thing is, there were literally about eight days left before our trip to Ararat, and, um, I was working at the "Novoye Vremya" newspaper. My salary was quite

17:59

Speaker A

small, and I was renting an apartment, so it turned out I didn't have the money to go to Ararat; I didn't have the necessary amount to cover all the expenses. I remember walking to the press house, "Mamulishenk," as we call

18:14

Speaker A

it in Armenian. I was walking along, completely lost in thought, I was physically ready, but I couldn't go, simply because I didn't have the money to go to Ararat. And I remember, just as I was approaching the press house, I

18:31

Speaker A

looked up at the sky and said, "Lord, please give me the money for Ararat." And when I went into my office, I suddenly got a call from the Kultura TV channel. They needed a Russian-speaking journalist who would spend a week

18:49

Speaker A

traveling with them around Armenia and talk about Armenia and its people. They had a specific script that needed to be covered. And, can you imagine, they offered me exactly the amount I needed for Ararat.

19:05

Speaker A

No more, no less, exactly that amount. They arrived, and we had a successful week of work. And on the night before my departure for Ararat, I was in the studio recording the voiceover, which we also finished successfully. They

19:26

Speaker A

gave me an additional fee, and I remember running home so joyfully, my backpack was already packed. I grabbed that backpack and headed for Ararat. Oh yes, I remember how my heart stood still as I walked. That first step

19:43

Speaker A

toward it, when we reached an altitude of 2,200 meters, that is the starting point where the climb begins. I remember looking up at it, and my heart just stopped. All the way, I was talking to the mountain, asking it to

20:00

Speaker A

let me in. I don't like the expression when people say, "I conquered a mountain." You cannot conquer any mountain. Whether it's Atis, which seems low, or Gutan, which is low, or whether it's Ararat or Everest, you cannot conquer a mountain. They are

20:19

Speaker A

temples. Mountains are temples. In the mountains, we become closer to ourselves and closer to God. Because when you walk, when you endure these trials—and there are always trials: trials of the team, trials of you as a team member, trials of you as a person.

20:43

Speaker A

There are questions of life and death. There are questions of life and death for the person who is beside you. And it's about how humane you are, how ready you are to sacrifice something of your own to support that person. I

20:57

Speaker A

walked and talked to it. And my first ascent took place in very bad weather.

21:05

Speaker A

We reached the summit, it was the peak. We realized it was the summit, but there was a catastrophically strong wind. It felt like it was going in one ear and flying out the other, along with my brain. And we reached the

21:24

Speaker A

summit. There was also with us a man, a mature man from Gyumri. That’s how it coincided. That very story I told, when I was a child and heard about the Spitak earthquake. And so it happened, we climbed and dedicated our ascent to

21:43

Speaker A

the memory of the Spitak earthquake victims. This is because that year, the year of our ascent, marked the twenty-fifth anniversary of those tragic events. With us, uh, was a man from Gyumri, who climbed barefoot. He was older, no one would take him into

22:04

Speaker A

their team, and he asked to join us. He made this ascent in memory of the children who died during the Spitak earthquake. He was dressed very simply.

22:16

Speaker A

A ushanka hat, some kind of little jacket, definitely not mountaineering gear, but that was also important here.

22:23

Speaker A

I would look at him, he believed. For him, this was a mission of pilgrimage or, as Armenians say, "ukht." He walked barefoot, and I kept running up to him and saying, "Gagik, show me your feet." "Gagik, show me your feet." Uh, well,

22:38

Speaker A

because no one wanted to take him. If he had gotten hurt, the whole team would have had to descend. But he walked so confidently, and not a single stone, not a single thorn hurt him. Mhm . And this man, despite everything,

22:52

Speaker A

also reached the summit. And standing there on the summit, pouring cognac from an old bottle, a vintage-style bottle from that year, '88, I realized that out of the five people on my team, everyone was on their own mission,

23:10

Speaker A

everyone was going to piece themselves back together, drop by drop of their soul. And Ararat gave us that feeling.

23:20

Speaker A

Wow. Actually, what you're saying, if you look at it, you're talking about Ararat, a mountain climb. But it's life , really; everything you described is life. It’s just that we, well, we people need rituals, because through rituals we can truly realize the beauty

23:42

Speaker A

of life. And that everything you just described, all these processes you experienced, people, you described it all so brilliantly; really, this can be applied to absolutely any life situation. Meaning, we truly, no matter what happens to us, we get back up. And

24:06

Speaker A

this support, let it be the symbol of Ararat. This divine power truly allows us, no matter what happens in life, to stand up, pull ourselves together, move forward, see the people walking with us , notice them, help them, and let them

24:28

Speaker A

help you. So, in reality, everything you described is about life, of course. And and in this case, the symbol of Ararat as a father really resonates with me. And you know, I think that is the whole value, the value of the

24:56

Speaker A

connection with our roots. Roots are not just the land where you were born. Roots are your ancestors, your parents, and in general, they are all that is divine, from where we all came. So, we all share these fundamental roots. And

25:17

Speaker A

when we are truly connected to these roots, as you said, that this man, despite being barefoot, believed and knew why he was going. And when you have that pure intention, when you know why you are doing it, you also know

25:34

Speaker A

that you are being led, because maybe it seems to someone, well, it’s a mountain, it’s so big, of course, God's help is needed there. It is needed everywhere; that is, without God , without divine powers, we need this

25:52

Speaker A

humility, simple human humility in any endeavor. In the simplest life matters, when we humbly know that God leads us, even when everything is against us, when it seems like everything is against you, like the story you told about receiving exactly the amount of

26:15

Speaker A

money you needed to follow God. Here, for some, it might be climbing a mountain, right? For others, it might be something else: opening a door, telling someone the truth, hugging someone, confessing love, or admitting they are wrong. It could be anything.

26:38

Speaker A

And this vulnerability and humility and this faith that leads you courageously. And I think we have touched upon a very , very important point. I have some more questions here that I wrote down for myself about Ararat. You see, I

26:55

Speaker A

have...well...when you climbed to the top, right there standing on that summit. If you can, of course, describe it in words, because I know that not everything we live through can be described in words, but you have a way

27:18

Speaker A

with them. Words are definitely your strength. What was happening in that moment? What was the feeling? How did you, uh...You say that we were walking, each of us piecing ourselves back together. And there you are, standing on that summit. I know you've been

27:37

Speaker A

there a few times. You could probably even say that the Lena who went the second time, well, she was a completely different Lena than the one who climbed it the first time. Could you please tell us, what is that feeling like at

27:51

Speaker A

the summit, once you’re finally there ? It’s a feeling of absolute love. I remember standing there, feeling how my soul was trembling. It’s a connection . It’s not for nothing that all of humanity began with the Ararat mountains. It’s as if I had arrived,

28:14

Speaker A

you could say I was back on that ark. We are all back on that same ark that saved us. Yes, a feeling of absolute love. And as you noted, every time it’s a different Lena; indeed, back in 2014 and 2015, I was a different

28:34

Speaker A

person each time, but the main thing remained—that sense of awe the mountain gives you. Exactly. There was a period when Ararat was closed. I climbed it in 2015, and then Ararat was closed until 2019. There were some Turkish-Kurdish conflicts going on. The

29:01

Speaker A

area around the mountain was mined, and there were already problems with Ararat back in 2015. I remember when we climbed up and came back down, there were already Kurdish militants sitting at the Van Fortress with weapons. All in all, a difficult situation was

29:22

Speaker A

brewing, but in the end, Ararat remained closed until 2019. And, you know, I was aching for it. Every year I waited for it to open. I kept asking whether or not one could go. And when they said in August 2019 that Ararat

29:41

Speaker A

was open and people could come, I was so happy I climbed it twice. I mean, I went to Ararat—first to Aragats for acclimatization, then to Ararat, then I came to Yerevan, then I climbed Kazbek, then I came back to Yerevan, climbed

29:58

Speaker A

Aragats again, and then back to Ararat. Now, when I look back, I think, "My God , how did I manage three 5,000-meter peaks and two 4,000-meter peaks in just 4 weeks?" But I remember, it was all out of joy, pure joy, because I had

30:18

Speaker A

started writing essays which I call " Ararat Dreams." During those 4 years that Ararat was closed, I dreamed of it constantly. I was constantly climbing it in my sleep. And it seemed to me in my dreams that some construction was

30:37

Speaker A

going on on Ararat, as if they had built an escalator inside, and now you could quickly go up the escalator, not taking that long, a week I mean, including the round trip. Usually, the climb takes 3-4 days. And in my dreams,

30:55

Speaker A

I’m going up on this escalator, and they tell me: "Ararat is closing now." I say: "Well, just for a minute, can I just go to the summit for a minute." So. And this agitation in my dreams, this anxiety, I was traveling to Ararat

31:10

Speaker A

in my dreams on some kind of cart, and on horseback. Well, there was constant movement toward Ararat. And the dreams really troubled me a lot. But then there was 2020, 2022, 2024. And 2026, in 2024 it was also very symbolic, very

31:35

Speaker A

sacred for me, because that year my father passed away, and I realized I wouldn't survive this situation. For me , it became a breaking point, you could say, as if my spine had been broken.

31:53

Speaker A

And I knew the only place where I could pull myself together, that would save me, was Ararat. So I went to Ararat, well, like to a father. Ararat remains a father. And 2026, that was already my eighth ascent of Ararat, in 2026. It is

32:15

Speaker A

also significant for me that I also climbed the Little Ararat. The little one always remained in the shadow of the big one.

32:22

Speaker A

So. Because usually before the big one no one wants to go to the little one to save energy, and after the big one no one wants to go to the little one. In short, I climbed the little one. And

32:35

Speaker A

for me, it was a revelation that it is just as sacred, just as holy. It is very steep. And really, you are constantly climbing there, and on the way down you are constantly descending.

32:51

Speaker A

I spent some time at the summit, and I realized that next year I want to return there and pitch a tent on the top of Little Ararat and live that time with Little Ararat. To find the inscriptions on the stones that I read

33:07

Speaker A

about in archives and historical documents. And also this year, you know , I climbed Ararat with my daughter.

33:17

Speaker A

For me, that was important. It was very important to stand there with my daughter. That she also made it, that she experiences the same feelings as I do, this contact with this great thing, with Ararat. And while earlier, when my

33:37

Speaker A

daughters were still small, I thought: "When will the time come for me to climb with them?" I didn't risk taking them back then. But now my daughter wanted to go herself, and she climbed it with me.

33:51

Speaker A

Yes, that was also a great feeling. On one hand, there were these motherly feelings; I am a mother, and next to me was my grown daughter, whom I now perceive as a friend. And on the other hand, there it was, our father Ararat.

34:08

Speaker A

And the weather was also a factor. The wind was very strong. It was a catastrophically strong wind with gusts reaching 60 meters per second. It was just tearing chunks of ice off the summit. Yes. But we stood on the summit

34:24

Speaker A

hugging each other. And I realized what kind of power there is in this unity.

34:29

Speaker A

Yes, every time I am different, every time the mountain is different. Ararat is never the same. Well, just like other mountains. But Ararat is special; it is different every time. And every time, I talk to it, I ask it, "Please,

34:45

Speaker A

let me in." I say, "I'm here with my daughter, please, give her the strength to make it too." And it answers me.

34:53

Speaker A

It answers you? Yes, it hears. It answers. Well, the fact that it answers, one could even speak of some mystical occurrences. For example, in 2024, the weather was very bad. By the way, this year there is also much more

35:10

Speaker A

snow than in previous years. And a day before our climb to the summit, several groups tried, but they didn't make it.

35:20

Speaker A

That is, they didn't reach the summit, they were forced to turn back. We asked them, "Well, how was it?""How did it go ?" They said, "No, we didn't climb it, the weather is bad." But I had a confidence inside that we would make it

35:31

Speaker A

. I remember sitting at 4,200 meters in our base camp, looking toward the summit, which wasn't visible.

35:39

Speaker A

Everything was covered in clouds and mist. Thunder, lightning. But I sat there, and I begged it, "Please, let us in, please, let us in." And that night there was a window. We climbed it. We climbed it, yes, we descended, and the

35:54

Speaker A

next day the weather turned bad. For several more days, the weather was bad. So I think I have a dialogue with it.

36:03

Speaker A

Thank God that it is so. But, well, as you tell it, I understand that it is so. I believe that I am living it right along with you. I am sure that our listeners are living through it all right along with you too

36:16

Speaker A

, because it is truly genuine, you can see it. By the way, what you said, about that feeling that we all originated—I hold annual events, I host retreats—and my experts come from, well, from Italy, and, well, of course, they knew about Armenia, but

36:38

Speaker A

not all that well. And, during one visit, they have the chance to visit different places. We all know that Armenia has many wonderful, simply incredible places and temples. And I didn’t have the chance to talk to them about it for very long. But before

37:00

Speaker A

they flew out, I just received a photo and a message. They said they didn't know what it was. But they went to Khor Virap, and they said, "We stood on that ground, and we had the feeling that we

37:19

Speaker A

all came from here, that we are all connected to this land." And they said they were literally tearing up. I mean, it was clearly evident that it was said from the heart. They couldn't even explain what it was. They didn't know

37:36

Speaker A

any specific historical facts. And so on. But that state, that feeling of belonging to the land. So, what you’re saying is true; it’s not just felt by someone who has lived in Armenia for many years and perhaps has

37:55

Speaker A

some connection, love, kids who grew up here, family, and so on. But people who have absolutely no relation to Armenia in terms of physical presence here, or relatives, they just felt it instantly.

38:11

Speaker A

They visited the holy sites and felt that they had a connection to these places. So, right there I remembered; I had forgotten about that. Well, at that moment, I certainly had such a reaction . I thought, wow. But now that you’re

38:29

Speaker A

telling it, I realize that it is truly so. Well, let's call it the primal homeland.

38:34

Speaker A

Yes, yes, the primal homeland of all humanity. And Armenia, if you look at history, throughout history, empires have disappeared, peoples have disappeared.

38:48

Speaker A

Armenia, I don't know, torn apart by enemies there. Armenia, so much blood has been spilled on Armenian soil, but it remains. Even if it's a small piece.

39:00

Speaker A

Just as Hovaness Grigoryan, a poet of the sixties, said, "My Armenia is so small, it is like a heart that I can hide in my breast." And so Armenia remains, and it remains for a reason. And Armenia will remain

39:16

Speaker A

because it is a holy land, it is the primal homeland. Wow. I don't even know what to add, because for some reason, well, you know, there are phrases, and then there are words that you’ve heard many times from different people,

39:36

Speaker A

from historians, from, uh, people who have the facts, who can tell the whole story from beginning to end, but your words—they, uh, they really have an impact. And, uh, I think that people would also be very interested, uh, if

40:00

Speaker A

you can even talk about it at all, that is. What is this, what kind of connection is this? Here you are, a girl born in the Volgograd region, I believe, right? And you have an absolutely Russian soul. I mean, for me

40:18

Speaker A

, personally, I have a friend, her name is also Lena. I even have her saved in my phone as "Elena the generous soul." There. And you, Elena, are also a generous soul. That is, this big, generous Russian soul. So what is this

40:36

Speaker A

connection with Armenia? Is it exactly what we are talking about now, right? I mean, is it a connection to those sacred places, is it the kind of connection that every person has but not everyone has found, or what is it?

40:51

Speaker A

Well, I probably came, as I already said, no matter how pretentious it may sound, I came to my original homeland, I made contact, and when I made that contact, I realized I could no longer leave this place. No matter how my life

41:09

Speaker A

was unfolding, like the divorce, I couldn't leave Armenia. I am very grateful to my ex-husband that, despite the fact that I was against coming to Armenia, that I cried and didn't want to come to Armenia, he brought me here.

41:28

Speaker A

He felt bad everywhere else. He only felt good in Armenia. When we lived in Moscow, he felt bad. When we lived in London, he felt bad. He wanted to be in Armenia. And I am very grateful to him

41:41

Speaker A

that he gave me this land, that he brought me here, and that I went through this path of trials. And when I truly felt this motherly tenderness of Armenia, this cradle of Armenia—and if you look at it, the Armenian

41:57

Speaker A

Highlands actually look like a cradle. Yes. And no matter how you travel, no matter how you move within this cradle, we see Ararat from different angles.

42:10

Speaker A

The Father is watching, he is keeping an eye on this small nation, on this piece of land, that is under his, so to speak, watchful gaze, his sight. There.

42:22

Speaker A

Yes. Once I encountered this, I just couldn't pull myself away. Wow. I really don't know. I left for Moscow for my PhD studies, but I returned to Armenia. And I think it will always be this way. No matter where I go, I will

42:43

Speaker A

always return. For me, this is a very important place that gives me strength. And a very interesting point. Yes, I can't live without Russia. I also constantly need to travel to Russia.

42:57

Speaker A

Those native steppes, that parental home; my grandmother's house supports me so much energetically. That old grandmother's house, where homes were small and low, and there, in the middle of the room, a hook hangs from the ceiling. She had 14 children, and she

43:21

Speaker A

would rock them in that cradle. And I realize that in my life, when there are difficult situations, when I need to make a vital decision, it is important for me to have Ararat and that house, to sit there and look at those walls,

43:40

Speaker A

at that hook where the cradle hung. And the solutions really do come on their own. I can't live without Russia, and I can't live without Armenia either. And for me, it all exists in harmony. The Russian steppes nourish me, and the

43:58

Speaker A

Armenian mountains too. That's it. Yes. And, by the way, I wanted to...sorry, I interrupted you.

44:07

Speaker A

I wanted to, you know, as I listen to you, I keep getting these impulses, so if you see that, it’s nothing. You, you just keep talking, yes. And when I go to my native steppes , I realized that we started with

44:21

Speaker A

horizons, and there, the horizons are different. Those clouds, the clouds there are special; the kind of clouds you see in Russia, in our Volgograd region, you don't find them anywhere else. They are fluffy, they are airy, and by evening they usually sink below

44:42

Speaker A

the horizon. And I can't help myself. When those clouds sink behind the horizon, I look at them and I see mountains. I search for that mountain silhouette. And I realize that's it, it's time to return to Armenia.

44:59

Speaker A

But that is truly phenomenal. And that detail you shared about your ex-husband , how he served you, right? This just goes to show us once again that, whatever happens in life, we are all here, let’s say, going through

45:17

Speaker A

different experiences; let’s call it learning in this life, right? We didn't come here all-knowing. That’s the whole beauty of life, that we are living. And we never know, the person who arrives, in any role. It could be the role of a child for you, it could

45:38

Speaker A

be the role of a husband, it could be the role of a friend, or anyone at all.

45:43

Speaker A

We never know what the true value is that a person will bring you through that role. And I really appreciate how wisely you speak about the fact that, yes, divorce, it happens. And I just want to capture that moment when you

46:04

Speaker A

said that when you saw your ex-husband, you said: "We will have children." This knowledge comes from above. Basically, we all, one way or another, talk to God . He talks to us. So, this knowledge that comes in the moment when we see

46:21

Speaker A

something, look at a person, it cannot be confused with anything else. And that is indeed what happened. You gave birth to two beautiful daughters. And I am sure that from his side of life, he also has a lot that he learned through

46:36

Speaker A

you. 100%. I don’t even doubt it. A person might not know it at the moment, but that doesn't mean it isn't there.

46:45

Speaker A

And the role he played in your life, and how he really became a bridge connecting two homelands, two cultures, and more. You know, as you speak now, I realize that your love...when you say " home,""steppes,""grandmother," these places are necessarily associated in

47:08

Speaker A

your mind with a person, a state, and those emotions that were experienced with that person and are still being experienced, because I don't believe that anything disappears, it just changes form.

47:24

Speaker A

And it's the same with your father, yes , I know your father has left the physical world, but he is still here.

47:33

Speaker A

And he is a part of these mountains, and these peaks that you show, and this support, and you know that it is always there. You can talk to him at any moment, and you will hear an answer in

47:48

Speaker A

any life situation. And yes, at some point it is important for us humans, to be at that summit, because, well, that's just how we are; we need to receive these physical sensations, to feel it. But that is always there. I

48:05

Speaker A

mean, we can speak from that summit, from that mountain, right now, right here, while being in this studio. But at the same time, I know for sure that when you are called to this summit, that connection you get there means you

48:21

Speaker A

then descend back here to the people, to your work. I know that you do many interesting things. And I know that you are an advisor to the chair of the public organization "Dialogues." I know that you do a great many things. This

48:35

Speaker A

is what I have seen with my own eyes. I mean, although there is much else, I haven't climbed a mountain with you just yet. So. Uh, but I have seen a lot of other things that you do. I see how

48:50

Speaker A

you, and, you know, if I were asked, " Can you tell us what service is?" Then I would say, just look at Lena.

49:07

Speaker A

Shuvaeva-Petrosyan. Look at her, and you will understand what service is. Because service without love, well, it's not really service. I know that everything you do, you would do anyway.

49:24

Speaker A

Even if no one recognized you, and even if no one paid you, and even if, well, no one, uh, clapped for you, and so on.

49:34

Speaker A

I mean, I know you do it. Simply because you cannot do otherwise. And so I have this question for you. Right.

49:43

Speaker A

Because you are very much about the calling. And it seems to me, uh, that each of us has a calling. Every single person. It's just that we very often either don't hear it because we live on autopilot, or we are too obsessed with

50:01

Speaker A

ourselves in terms of egoism. Because constant suffering is also egoism; when we are all obsessed with ourselves, we suffer a lot. "My this hurts, I feel bad, I..." I was betrayed, I am not loved. That is all egoism. In order to

50:21

Speaker A

serve, you must take a step, uh, from your unloved self to your loved self, because, well, to suffer, you have to not love yourself. So how would you answer the question, what is necessary?

50:36

Speaker A

I would even say, well, for any person in principle, but in this case, since you are a woman, for a woman to hear the call and follow it, no matter what.

50:52

Speaker A

What qualities in a woman would you highlight? You can name your own, the ones that help you. I actually think you shouldn't divide it into man and woman here, That's for sure.

51:09

Speaker A

And I think it’s very important to help those who are in need. If you see a person nearby who is worse off than you, and you don’t stop, don’t reach out a hand, Uh-huh. You could say you’ve stepped

51:28

Speaker A

over them and walked right on by. That’s why, perhaps, as you noted, there are areas of work in my life that bring me absolutely no financial well-being or prosperity. For instance, I have been working for many years with

51:50

Speaker A

World War II veterans. And for me, you know, this is also a way of touching such great history, such great destinies, that When I talk to them—I am also the author of the book "Voices of Immortality," memories of Armenian

52:12

Speaker A

veterans about the Great Patriotic War. When I interact with them, I realize that everything we go through—someone said something, someone gave a look, someone backstabbed or betrayed us—is all so trivial, it all passes. We are, one might say, the last generation that

52:34

Speaker A

can communicate with this great, this steel-like, this, I don't know, basalt-like generation that lived through the war, survived famine, and in those conditions raised children and provided them with a decent education.

52:52

Speaker A

And this person, every single one of them, is essentially a living monument. And my work with students at the Ijevan branch of Yerevan State University—I am also asked the question: "Why do you travel to Ijevan? Can't you just work

53:10

Speaker A

in Yerevan?" There are plenty of lecturers in Yerevan. There is quite a lot of competition there. But in Ijevan , the students are stunning. They come from villages, villages on the border with Azerbaijan. And they come to the

53:29

Speaker A

university; for them, it is a major event. They approach their studies so responsibly—well, I teach Russian literature—and they read absolutely everything I assign. They have excellent Russian. And just yesterday, we held a presentation of the collection "Armenian Motifs," which

53:52

Speaker A

includes works by my students. They came to the presentation all the way from Ijevan.

53:59

Speaker A

And when they were presenting, when they were speaking, when they were sharing their opinion about this book, I sat there listening and thinking about how well they speak.

54:10

Speaker A

Right. And we constantly had eye contact. I was signaling to them, and they were to me as well. So, I feel that my own personal mission is in this service. The service of a teacher, the service of a person who can perhaps

54:29

Speaker A

help someone in any way they can. I help as much as I can. Right. And when people ask me, well, you know, you work in different areas, in several places, where do you get the strength from? And I don't know, maybe God gives it to me.

54:46

Speaker A

Well, I am sure that this is exactly how it is, because when we serve, we are nourished by divine energy. Yes, even, you know, well, this is, of course, a story from the sphere of the sacred, even from the realm of

55:07

Speaker A

mysticism. When I was a schoolgirl, it is the voice of the soul, so mysticism is here, of course, how can it be without it?

55:15

Speaker A

Yes, when I was a schoolgirl, well, an accident happened. Sorry for the tautology, I was 16 years old, and I was walking into the classroom. There was a student who had been held back in our class. He was quite a tall, strong

55:32

Speaker A

guy. And he ripped a cupboard door off, that particle board, and launched it like a flying saucer. He wasn't aiming at me, he was aiming at my cousin, but I caught the blow. In short, this door hit me in the head, cracked my skull,

55:52

Speaker A

and all I remember is the spray of blood, and then I’m fading away. And I fell into a coma, and I was in that state. And I remember it was so beautiful, the sky was like that, it was so calm, so warm, as if you were in

56:15

Speaker A

absolute love. And my grandmother appeared, that very grandmother to whose house I constantly return. At that moment, she had already finished her earthly journey. Right. And she took me by the hand. And we walked through a stunningly beautiful meadow.

56:35

Speaker A

We were walking on this green grass, and I felt calm, I felt warm, she was leading me away. She was leading me away, and I understood that I was leaving, and I didn't regret anything.

56:50

Speaker A

But then at some point, she looked at me, and her face changed. It changed, it turned dark, and the sky changed too . In short, everything became so gloomy , so dark. There were thunderstorms.

57:05

Speaker A

And suddenly she pushed me away like that and said: "Go away, I don't like it when my children cry." There. And I opened my eyes and uh my mom and dad were sitting next to me by the bed.

57:19

Speaker A

Apparently, dad had been crying. I realized that this grandmother of mine, she had brought me back to life. And there were other times in my life when I was on the brink of life and death.

57:32

Speaker A

And there was an overall feeling that the Mother of God was carrying me in her arms out of that state. This maternal, I don't know, maybe all of this, this divine, this holy, the sacred Armenian land, everything is so

57:48

Speaker A

interconnected, and I am within this system. Maybe that's why I am here. Well, at least because I hear, and how for me, yes, as a person on the outside , this is also being experienced together with you. And so I see it, I

58:04

Speaker A

truly see you as part of this system. And uh this with the Messiah, with the messiah it is clear that the purpose of all of us people in this world is to live. And then there is what we do here

58:24

Speaker A

while living, what sparks passion, what we do with passion. Because a great many people, they don't quite understand what passion is. This word, this concept, this state, it has become somewhat superficial, perhaps, or grounded, very physical. Mm-hmm. But

58:52

Speaker A

listening to you, one understands, the way you speak, that is, I know, our next topic was actually supposed to be about the veterans. But you have already started that topic. And this is indeed passion. People ask: "How, how

59:08

Speaker A

do you have so much time?" I know that you go to bed very late. Just yesterday we couldn't get on a call. I know that after the presentation, you still had theater, right? Then you came home, you had to write an article. I’m like, so

59:21

Speaker A

, I pick up my phone, thinking, ah, Lena, don't call. Oh, 2:00 AM, Lena is still online. Lena is definitely not sleeping. Anyway, in the morning at 8:00 AM, Lena is already awake. So I understand all of this,

59:33

Speaker A

but I don't get the feeling that you are getting tired. I mean, I don't see it for the simple reason that for you, it is passion. It is something you cannot not do. It is what nourishes you on this earth. Because when people come

59:50

Speaker A

and say: "What is my purpose?" Well, the purpose is already there. To live otherwise you wouldn't be here. You are here, which means you have come to live , and that is a gift.

60:01

Speaker A

Uh-huh. But how will you live, how will you live, and through what will you express all that divine power that is within you? That is what sparks your passion. What you do passionately and cannot help but do. And you were just

60:20

Speaker A

talking about the veterans. I have seen it, I have seen the footage, I have read about it, and besides, I have a close connection with the people you work with. And I know a lot of things, I also know about some internal issues.

60:38

Speaker A

I know you from different perspectives, but all these perspectives are always positive. They are always positive, because everything you touch, everything you do, you do from the heart. And that is what’s important.

60:55

Speaker A

And you have just answered the question . Indeed, it doesn't really matter whether you are a woman, a man, or a person, because every person hears the call. And yet, I want to highlight you as a woman. And there is a reason for

61:08

Speaker A

that. We live in a modern world where there is a lot of division: man, woman, and, uh, well, women belong here, the place of a woman is here. And a lot of energy is drained and wasted on us

61:24

Speaker A

trying to, uh, understand what the difference is, or, conversely, how women and men are similar. But the point is that one cannot exist without the other. Like mother and father, yes, and this female power, female and male power. And I know that, well, at least

61:49

Speaker A

one of your, well, working with veterans, yes, it's clear there are both women and men, but most likely, men predominate. I know that you work, yes, take the organization, for instance. In short, you are surrounded by a huge number of men whose brains

62:05

Speaker A

work in a completely different way, let's say. They receive impulses differently. But one day I was watching you. So, I was watching, yes, I was watching, knowing that someone is watching you. I watched you working with men, and in a rather, let's say,

62:26

Speaker A

complex structure. Uh-huh. Which involves various things, yes, it's both social activity and, to some extent, political activity. So it is a rather heavy-duty structure. And it's very often associated by people with some kind of masculine strength, which I don't entirely agree with, because it

62:45

Speaker A

contains both, and even in a man himself there is both. But we won't go into that rabbit hole. So. And I’ve been observing you. And I was very happy that you are in this structure, for the simple reason that perhaps even

62:59

Speaker A

the men don’t realize what strength you bring to it. Because female strength is powerful, it’s not sharp like that. Yes, it is creative, it is unifying, it is responsible for this atmosphere where there is warmth and coziness. And in some unique way, this

63:21

Speaker A

feminine strength and this feminine energy in you is very, very, very contagious; it is truly peaceful to be around you. Could you perhaps—I think this would be interesting to young listeners and to those growing up in the modern world, where this division

63:40

Speaker A

still exists. Uh, well, to one degree or another, again, it’s everyone's choice where to look, what to read, and what to experience. But I would really like to hear from a woman: how about you?

63:55

Speaker A

I’m afraid of your question. Answer as it is, don’t be afraid. How , after all, among men—well, there probably were different situations. How do you turn on this femininity of yours , how does it just—or do you just

64:13

Speaker A

exist, right? Meaning it all works by itself. Just tell it like it is. Maybe you'll say, "That's a really stupid question, I don't understand what you're talking about." That is also accepted.

64:25

Speaker A

Well, it's actually a bit hard for me to answer this question because, probably, I just exist and that's it.

64:36

Speaker A

Even when I'm shoulder to shoulder with men, whether in the office or on a mountain, if a man thinks he needs to act a certain way as a man on the mountain, like carrying my heavy backpack or something. Well, we're just

64:53

Speaker A

side by side, we exist, we're in one chain, and we support each other. Mm.

64:59

Speaker A

Whether I'm a woman or a man, if I were a man, I don't know. I I don’t "turn on" being a woman in the sense that is talked about now—you know, like female flirtatiousness or, I don't know , a woman using her charms to somehow

65:25

Speaker A

manipulate men or achieve something. I don't know, I am just who I am, the way I live. That's it.

65:36

Speaker A

I think that is the best answer. And that is the answer. It is the answer that you just are, and that is enough. And that is exactly what a great number of women are lacking. Simply knowing that they exist

65:53

Speaker A

and that it is enough. And and when they accept this, that I exist and it is enough, and that the way I was created by God, and the purpose I am here for, is enough to unite us together

66:11

Speaker A

into this chain you speak of, and to climb to the top of the mountain. Can you tell me about the people who climbed with you? I know you have many interesting stories related to the people who climbed with you. What do

66:28

Speaker A

you think is valuable that you can share with people from these stories? As a writer, I always act as an observer. I am interested in the person , I am interested in the character. And so, perhaps, I notice certain details

66:46

Speaker A

that, let’s say, might not be visible to someone who is not involved in creative work. And every person is very interesting to me. And completely different people end up on Ararat. Some climb with the goal just to climb, to

67:05

Speaker A

tick a box saying, "I have been to Ararat." There are people who, as I have already mentioned, like Gagik from Gyumri, for whom it was a pilgrimage to Ararat. And one time, in my group, there was an acquaintance from my

67:23

Speaker A

graduate school days who came to Ararat while she had stage four cancer. Yes, she was, well, I will be honest, she was a very difficult, psychologically heavy person. We lived together in a dormitory in Moscow at the Literary

67:44

Speaker A

Institute, and nobody could get along with her. They put me with her because we were exactly the same age. Our birthdays were only 4 days apart. The warden put me with her, for some reason , thinking we would find common ground.

68:04

Speaker A

And I saw a very troubled person, deformed by life, as she used to say.

68:10

Speaker A

She pushed away, crossed her father out of her life. Because he was closer to her younger sister. She could say that at some point she broke off relations with her son, because why be together, why maintain warm relations if sooner

68:31

Speaker A

or later I will die and my son will suffer. Let him live his own life so I don’t influence him. Hmm. Having divorced her husband, she had other relationships after that, but the man didn't choose her, he chose another

68:48

Speaker A

woman. And she decided that, in a way, to give up on personal relationships. Well, in short, she was a person carrying a lot of negativity, and she set a deadline for herself: she would die at 40. I asked, "Why at 40?" She

69:09

Speaker A

said, "Well, my mom died of cancer at 40, and I will die at 40, too." And she didn't like spending money on other people. I would always see her buying matches and writing down, "so many kopecks for this, so many for that

69:23

Speaker A

." It always surprised her that I could get a fee, spend that money, buy something for my mom, or buy something for her. Basically, the next day I'd have no money left and would say, "God, I have no money, please give me some."

69:36

Speaker A

And I would get some editing job. She was always shocked by that connection. And so she sells her apartment—I think she’s selling her apartment in Omsk to buy a plot of land with a house near Moscow, to move closer to the city

69:59

Speaker A

, but she runs into some trouble there; she disagreed with someone over the money, and then she gets involved in a very, um, unpleasant story. at the college where she teaches. Meaning, she takes teaching hours away from another

70:17

Speaker A

professor. Like, why is he even teaching? I won't mention what nationality he was. She just decided it was better to give those hours to her instead of that person.

70:30

Speaker A

And she collects money for the purchase of this land and this home. And then one night, while I was sitting and writing, she left the room and was gone for a long time. I went out, and she was lying on the floor. We called an

70:45

Speaker A

ambulance, she was taken to the hospital, they ran several tests, and they actually did the tests at a few different hospitals. She had stage four cancer, and she was left, one could say , all alone in this world—her father

70:58

Speaker A

was far away, her son was also far away . And I visited her. And then, through meditation, she immersed herself in a state of death and rebirth. Her spiritual practice here is, of course, very, um, very interesting—how she

71:18

Speaker A

was able to revive herself. And then a completely different person emerges. The money that was left over from her treatment, she starts spending it on herself and on traveling. She buys a ticket to Armenia. And she had been given six months to live. She

71:35

Speaker A

first arrives in Armenia in January. We walked more than 30 km with her through the Azat gorge from the Garni temple.

71:46

Speaker A

We descended into the gorge to the village of Lanjazat. And we crossed a mountain river in January, trudged through mud, overcame several ridges, and eventually reached the village of Lanchazad. And six months later, when she was supposed to die according to

72:05

Speaker A

the doctors' prognosis, she came to Armenia; I was preparing to go to Ararat, and she said, "Well, then I'll wait for you." I said, "No, let me give you some clothes." Over the years of climbing, I had accumulated plenty of

72:19

Speaker A

women's gear and clothing. I got her geared up, and she came with me to Ararat. And on Ararat, I saw a completely different person—someone who cares about others, someone who serves other people. She would ask, " Did Ashot eat?""Oh, Arno has wet socks,

72:38

Speaker A

here, take these, I'm giving them to you." In short, she started serving people, and she climbed Ararat, all the way to the summit. And for her, mind you, she had already lost a lot of weight by that time. Well, like someone

72:58

Speaker A

overcoming an illness. After she came down from Ararat, she underwent several check-ups. Well, as she was being monitored by doctors, they found no trace of cancer. And I can say that Ararat is, after all, a special place.

73:17

Speaker A

Ararat changed her. I don't know now how much she has changed, because we lost contact, but she always had these ups and downs, ups and downs. And so, that was my last contact with her, so to speak. And I had the feeling that

73:37

Speaker A

she had returned to her old self. The destructive one? Things like that happen. Yeah. But Ararat gave her a chance. I don't know how she will use it going forward.

73:47

Speaker A

We ended our relationship. But I still communicate with many members of the team. We have WhatsApp chats where we message each other and share news, because what we went through together made us feel like a family. I usually

74:06

Speaker A

don't assemble large groups for Ararat. Most often, these are my acquaintances, friends, or my family. Yeah. And before climbing Ararat, we go to Aragats for initial acclimatization. We set up our tents there, spend the night, and check our gear, our clothing, and our team.

74:30

Speaker A

And by the time we head to Ararat, we are no longer just random people who gathered to make a climb. We are already a family.

74:39

Speaker A

Yes, well, that is truly amazing. I think you aren't just random people. Even long before the decision was made.

74:47

Speaker A

And this story is also phenomenal. what you just shared, uh, that is exactly what happens when you, uh, hear God.

75:02

Speaker A

And you said it perfectly, that, uh, the mountain is like a symbol of divine power, uh, a symbol of the father, right? Meaning the symbol of the father here is that very foundation, and the fact that the mountain is

75:20

Speaker A

watching, right? So, Ararat is watching , but it doesn’t do it for you. It gives you the strength so that you can stand up and do it. And basically, this story of yours about that woman is exactly about that. It gave her a

75:37

Speaker A

chance, and from there, it was her choice. But it is truly a wonderful story. And there are actually so many stories like that, uh, that are truly inspiring.

75:50

Speaker A

They are inspiring. Uh, you know, I also want to ask you something else. About the veterans, I know that you—I might be, right now—I just heard about it. Could you tell me in more detail? Or rather, I saw it, I read

76:13

Speaker A

about it. That you, uh, gifted a house to a veteran. That really touched me.

76:22

Speaker A

It touched me so, so much. Because, well, in principle, it touches me when people, uh, think about other people.

76:32

Speaker A

But here there was something else, uh, very heartfelt, something truly genuine . Can you tell me more about who this person is and, uh, how you actually helped him find a home?

76:48

Speaker A

Let me correct you just a little bit. He is not exactly a veteran, he is a displaced person from Nagorno-Karabakh, from Artsakh, uh, Grigory Afanasyan. He is a philosopher and a mathematician. We met back in, I think, 2012. Well, I used to

77:10

Speaker A

go to Artsakh often. For me, by the way , it was also a place where I could pull myself together. I, for some reason, pull myself together everywhere . Uh, yes, when I went to Artsakh, uh, it seemed to me that this land, uh, was

77:27

Speaker A

a land of true heroes. The people there throughout history, uh, they live in a state of constant trials, constant risks, uh, they defend their piece of land, their stones. That the ground is filled with layers, I don't know, of

77:51

Speaker A

different types of weapons, because how much they fought for this land, how much blood was shed. When I went there, for me, they were true heroes. These were people of steel, on whose shoulders this land—this holy land— rests. You could say that Artsakh was a

78:10

Speaker A

place that preserved things when, uh, Armenia, our territory of modern Armenia, was divided between the Ottoman Empire and the Turkish Empire.

78:22

Speaker A

There you go. The Armenian code was preserved in Artsakh, Armenian culture was preserved in these monuments, in these monasteries. And I often came there. I loved Artsakh very much. I am acquainted with many people in Artsakh.

78:39

Speaker A

And I met Grigor once in Shushi at a cultural event. It was either 2011 or 2012. Mmm. Uh, well, we didn't talk much, practically didn't communicate.

78:54

Speaker A

But when this tragedy happened in Artsakh and the forced exodus in 2023, I also talked with many people, followed their stories and fates. With a team of friends, we helped as much as we could. Molokans. They joined us back

79:18

Speaker A

in 2020, during the forty-four-day war, the Molokans brought me cheese, cabbage , and milk from their villages. And we divided it all, kept lists of people from Nagorno-Karabakh, distributed food and clothes to them. And Grigor turned out to be among these displaced persons

79:40

Speaker A

. And I had, uh, a large plot of land in the Volgograd region, on which there were two houses. One house is under construction, the other is a small house that is 100 years old, but it is quite sturdy and warm. It is a log

79:58

Speaker A

cabin that has a roof and everything, and there is water and electricity there. I bought this land in 2022 when my dad got sick. He developed this kind of depressed mood, like: "Well, that's it, my earthly journey is over, it's

80:19

Speaker A

time for me to go." And I buy this land and these houses, they are sold for absolutely pennies in the villages there. And I say to Dad: "Dad, I say, ' Well, I'm alone, I need someone to help

80:38

Speaker A

me rebuild this house there.'" I say: " I need male strength, so I say, 'Help me build this house.'""I will come, I want to be in touch with my homeland."" Let's rebuild this house together." And my dad, I remember, it was like he

81:00

Speaker A

found a meaning for further life, because he had also set an age limit for himself. He was 73 years old then, and he said: "My mother died at 73, and it's time for me, too.""I have plenty of friends who have already died.""What

81:15

Speaker A

am I supposed to do?""You have already grown up." So. And then this house appears, and together with Dad, we cut down these weeds and trees. We cement the foundation there. Just shoulder to shoulder, side by side. For me, it was

81:29

Speaker A

a very important time, you know, to do something with Dad. Perhaps buying this house to some extent extended my father's life and brought our family together, because Mom helped, my brother helped, and my sister; it somehow inspired everyone, this house

81:47

Speaker A

and this land. Then, as I said, my dad passed away, and in 2024, well, two years later, I was left with these two houses. And so I am in touch with Grigory, in touch with his family. I see how dear the land is to him,

82:07

Speaker A

working the land. They were renting a house in a village somewhere near Masis . I used to visit them, and I saw with what love he cultivated......that land, picking out those little stones. And I thought, "Why do I need two houses if I

82:26

Speaker A

can help a person?" Especially since he loves Russia so much, he is just some kind of......

82:32

Speaker A

Armenian patriot, Russian patriot, Artsakh patriot. And I just had this spontaneous desire. I asked him, " Wouldn't you like to have a house in Russia?" He says, "What do you mean?" I say, "Well, I can gift you a house."

82:52

Speaker A

And I told him that somewhere in December. Well, after that, we didn't return to the topic. But he received the news with joy. Then I understood that it is, after all, a Russian village, one has to go there, and it

83:06

Speaker A

takes certain effort and expenses. But closer to spring, he asked me, "Is your offer still valid?" I said, "Of course.

83:12

Speaker A

" And so he and I went, we flew to Volgograd. And for me, it was so touching because he flew with flowers.

83:23

Speaker A

He bought the bouquet from Artsakh natives who opened a flower shop here; it had a "Tatik-Papik" label— grandfather and grandmother, the symbol of Artsakh.

83:35

Speaker A

He takes this bouquet. We arrive in Volgograd. My friend meets us...Arfa, Arfenya, or Arfenika, who drives us to the Mamayev Kurgan, because Grigory's father was a Great Patriotic War veteran. And Grigory says, "I absolutely must lay flowers at The

83:56

Speaker A

Motherland Calls." We carry those flowers with the Artsakh symbol, lay them down, and then go to my village.

84:05

Speaker A

And for him, that was such a poignant moment—the keys to the house. And what is interesting is that when he lived there for a month in the summer, I was also setting up the neighboring house, so we have now become neighbors.

84:22

Speaker A

We processed all the documents for him. And I saw, when the light went on in that little house, in that window, life returned. The house is over 100 years old. And it would seem, well, it's an old house, maybe it should be torn down

84:37

Speaker A

, but then a light went on, and a man appeared who started working the land.

84:44

Speaker A

And for me it was, you know, it was very touching that we returned to Armenia, and after a month spent in Russia we returned here, and I went to work, and he went to work, but two weeks passed, he packed his tools, he

84:59

Speaker A

had some free time, and he went to his house. Yes, it's his house now.

85:05

Speaker A

Yes, he went, and he spent another week there. Now he plans to return in the spring and bring trees there, because he had an orchard in Artsakh that had 3,000 trees. Now he wants to plant the same kind of orchard. Also,

85:21

Speaker A

well, he will most likely do it. That is also just beautiful. It is beautiful. And that is, in reality, we are all vessels for God.

85:37

Speaker A

That is, through us He acts, we are the hands of God, let's put it that way.

85:41

Speaker A

And as you tell this, I look at the trajectory, right? That is, my dad, what he believed in, which might seem, on the one hand, if you look at it, you could judge it and say, "Well, he believed in limitations, he had a

85:56

Speaker A

limiting belief that he had to die, and so on." But when you look at it broadly, you realize that it is all part of one single big picture. That is, if a soul decides to leave at that time and make

86:09

Speaker A

room for another soul, so that a light would be lit in that house specifically by the hand of this man. And then you see this whole picture as a complete whole.

86:20

Speaker A

And you know, when the idea came to invite you to the podcast, my, shall we say, my vision was this. That is, I wanted people to see through this podcast the hands of God, for people to see how we are all interconnected, for

86:41

Speaker A

people to see that even the saddest story and events in their lives are part of a big, grand picture. Where we serve one another, whether we want to or not. A person might reject this idea . They might say, "Why do I even need

86:57

Speaker A

this? I came to this world to live, to enjoy myself." That itself is also part of life. But regardless of whether you reject it or not, it is a part of one single life, of one single picture of

87:14

Speaker A

the world. And it seems to me that you have shown this in an absolutely stunning way. And I want to conclude our podcast with this question. For some reason, I really want to ask you this. And what do you see for the

87:34

Speaker A

Armenia of the future? There is a lot going on, but I am specifically interested in your perspective. It’s clear that, in the end, this future picture already exists, right? I mean, it's taking shape, and it can be looked

87:48

Speaker A

at from different sides. There. But, personally, I am interested in your vision. You surely must have one. I mean, what you do, what you invest— you do it from the heart. And it’s unlikely you sit there thinking about

88:06

Speaker A

what it will yield in a month or years, but you have an idea that, as a stone you’re laying in this construction— what are you building? What is it? Well , I think Armenia was, is, and always will be. Armenia was an ark and remains

88:27

Speaker A

an ark. The only thing is that the Armenian people are currently going through their greatest trial. They are being tested on the main religion of love for one another. If we return to that and start avoiding this division

88:47

Speaker A

—the Armenian people, one could say, have become divided in recent years. They started categorizing people. Baku Armenians, Karabakh Armenians, Gyumri Armenians, and so on. So, it was as if there was some sort of forced division of the Armenian people. As if some

89:08

Speaker A

negativity and rejection of one another were being cultivated. If we all realize that, in essence, we have nothing to divide and we own nothing.

89:21

Speaker A

We only own our souls. We carry this love. If we share love, if we respond less to aggression with aggression. I don’t want to sound like I’m, I don’t know, acting like some kind of saint. I have also had all the trials

89:44

Speaker A

in my life. I have also gone through challenges. I, too, may have been aggressive at certain moments, maybe a few years ago. But I have noticed on my spiritual path in recent years that when someone directs negativity or

90:02

Speaker A

aggression at me, I do not respond in kind. I used to try to respond. I thought that if a stone was thrown, I had to answer somehow.

90:13

Speaker A

Now, I just walk on by. They said what they said; that is their perspective.

90:19

Speaker A

But there were, of course, periods, especially periods of, let's say, spikes in difficult Russian-Armenian relations. And when I felt negativity directed at me, I tried not to escalate that negativity or respond with the same. And the people who were

90:38

Speaker A

aggressive around me gradually fell away, fell away, fell away. I mean, it's like I’ve created this little world of my own around me, and I’m comfortable in it. And I realized that people in Armenia, the Armenian people —I was convinced, and I remain

90:57

Speaker A

convinced, that the Armenian people are a God-chosen people after all. If Armenians understand this, that they carry this love, then everything will be fine. But Armenia will endure, no matter what. You said quite a thing just now. I mean, that’s enough for

91:15

Speaker A

another podcast, you know? That’s another two hours, which, unfortunately , we don't have, but you’ve touched upon a very important topic. I really hope we’ll have another chance to talk, because you have so much to say.

91:29

Speaker A

You really are—and I say this sincerely—a unique person to me. I admire you. Well, most likely, we are unique precisely in the fact that we are ordinary. And what you said, about the Armenian people needing to realize they

91:51

Speaker A

are chosen by God, that is very important, a crucial point, because there are so many misconceptions about it. People think that being chosen means being superior. But this being chosen is about something else entirely . It’s exactly what you are talking

92:11

Speaker A

about. You can respond to aggression with aggression, or respond to the same energy with that same energy. But if you realize and accept that this " chosenness" is exactly about being able to respond with love, to love your

92:31

Speaker A

neighbor. Chosenness isn't about being on a pedestal and showing off or using it to justify your own, let's say, dishonest actions. It is precisely about responding to evil with love.

92:48

Speaker A

Because if we see anger, it’s not about us, it’s about the person and what is happening inside them. And when a person shows anger, they are essentially crying out, "I need even more love." And the more—and I am

93:02

Speaker A

sure that the Armenian people, having lived through so much, all this history , it's not for nothing, because we have the capacity to give this love. It is precisely in this way that the universe and divine forces tell us, "You are

93:18

Speaker A

capable of love." That is exactly why you want to scream out of anger. But why? Because you are capable of love.

93:29

Speaker A

And so, we will wrap up here, because this is a very important topic, but we will definitely talk about it again, because I think you show this "us versus them" mentality, this division, so powerfully—not just in Armenia, but in the whole world. what is

93:52

Speaker A

happening in the world right now, because we were just talking about Armenia, but I want our viewers to understand that this isn't just about Armenia. Yes, we used Armenia as a topic of conversation, so to speak, but this is about the whole world. It is

94:08

Speaker A

about what is happening between people. It is about what is happening all over the world. We are not divided. This is humanity's greatest illusion. You, your experience, and your journey prove that there is no "us" and "them." You can

94:24

Speaker A

have a homeland, be born there, and love it. You can acquire another homeland, love it, and see your connection to it. Yes, see your connection to it and live it. Len, thank you so much for who you are, for

94:40

Speaker A

the fact that people like you exist. Thank you for what you told us, and for me personally. For me personally, you have opened up completely new horizons.

94:51

Speaker A

I have realized so much for myself as well. I will likely continue to process all of this and, perhaps, share some of my insights with you. And I am sure that our viewers also enjoyed spending this time with you. Thank you so much,

95:11

Speaker A

my dear. Maria. Thank you for the invitation. And I would also like to say a final word in our pleasant, soulful, and candid podcast. The time has come to gather stones. Oh, I would like to give you a stone from

95:34

Speaker A

Mount Ararat. Oh, my god, please take a piece of Ararat's heart. I also have an interesting story. Every time I come from Ararat, I bring a bag of stones.

95:50

Speaker A

And at the border, at the Georgian border, the Georgians asked me several times: "What is this?" I say, "Stones." "From where?" I say, "From Ararat." They say, "When will you finally take it apart stone by stone?" Thank you so much, Len. I am speechless

96:05

Speaker A

. Thank you. This and, of course, from Ararat, I want to give you a horseshoe. For luck, shaped like a heart. The horses that carry heavy loads up to the 4200 camp are shod with these special, flat, heart-shaped horseshoes. And the Kurds

96:27

Speaker A

who help us with the ascent, they provide the base camp there—I say base camp, I mean mountain camp, the kitchen where they cook, feed us, and set up our tents. Their horses, as I already said, carry heavy things. And

96:44

Speaker A

they said that there is a belief: if you find a horseshoe on Ararat, take it , it is for your good luck. And every time I return from Ararat, I bring horseshoes and give them to people for good luck. This one is for you.

96:59

Speaker A

Oh, and thank you so much. Honestly, I'm speechless. And, and this painting, too. Let’s show it right now, because it’s Thank you.

97:12

Speaker A

It’s a dot-art painting. I painted it recently after returning from my latest climb of Ararat. For me, the summit, the eternal ice of Ararat, is what I see in these colors. This is for you too.

97:30

Speaker A

This is extraordinary. Thank you so much. It’s, it’s very beautiful. It’s very precious to me. And for now , I have no words. And when I have no words, it means I am experiencing something truly very, very, very

97:43

Speaker A

precious. Thank you so much. Thank you. Yeah.

Topics: Armenia Elena Yagine mountains Ararat Aragats spirituality homeland ethnography mountaineering Nagorno-Karabakh

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