**"Is AI destroying education?" | Middle Ground — Transcript & Summary | SozAI**
Source: https://sozai.app/transcript/ai-destroying-education-middle-ground/

A nuanced discussion on AI's impact on education, college costs, student experiences, and the evolving value of higher education.

## Key Takeaways

- AI can be a powerful educational tool if used responsibly, not a replacement for critical thinking.
- The cost of higher education is often disproportionate to its perceived value and outcomes.
- Community colleges play a vital role in accessible education and reducing societal stigma.
- Higher education offers important social and professional networks beyond academics.
- Student mental health and campus culture need more attention alongside academic concerns.

## What the video covers

- AI should be integrated responsibly in education, similar to calculators, to enhance learning without undermining critical thinking.
- Students express mixed feelings about social media's impact on focus and gratification in learning.
- The rising cost of college tuition and associated expenses often do not reflect the quality or post-graduation wages.
- Community colleges offer accessible alternatives and reduce stigma, especially in states like California.
- Higher education provides more than just knowledge, including networks, shared experiences, and personal growth.
- There is concern over whether universities remain gatekeepers of knowledge given the public availability of information.
- Student loans and financial barriers heavily influence educational paths and decisions.
- Professors and administrative roles are crucial in facilitating knowledge beyond just delivering content.
- Mental health challenges and campus culture significantly affect student well-being during their studies.
- Critical thinking and ethical use of AI and information sources are essential skills for modern students.

## Chapters

1. 00:00 Responsible Use of AI in Education
2. 02:58 Facilitation of Knowledge and Administrative Roles
3. 06:27 Cost and Value of College Education
4. 08:43 Student Perspectives on Tuition and Financial Barriers
5. 11:43 Critical Thinking and Ethical Use of AI
6. 19:54 Campus Culture and Student Well-being
7. 30:48 Access, Stigma, and Community College Benefits
8. 51:08 Mental Health Challenges and Support Resources

Answers

## Questions about this video

How is AI compared to other educational tools in the video?

AI is likened to a calculator, a tool that can have significant societal impact if used responsibly, enhancing learning without replacing critical thinking.

What concerns do students express about the cost of college?

Students feel that the high cost of tuition, room, board, and fees often does not match the quality of education or future wages, leading some to regret not choosing community college.

What role do community colleges play according to the discussion?

Community colleges are seen as accessible and valuable alternatives that reduce stigma and provide important educational opportunities, especially in states like California.

## Full Transcript — Download SRT & Markdown

00:00

Speaker A

I think you have to enable students to use AI in a responsible manner. It's almost like a calculator. It's just another potential to create as significant of a consequence in our societies as we've seen AI.

00:15

Speaker A

I think I'm a good student. So, I don't think social media is messing me up.

00:18

Speaker A

I think I'm a good student. So, I don't think social media is messing me up.

00:25

Speaker A

Like I do other things besides just like give in to like this call to just just sit and focus on on something that you would not have thought of yourself.

00:39

Speaker A

Like, it just depends on am I interested in what I'm learning or not. Social media feeds into that gratification, that self-indulgence.

01:03

Speaker A

college route because of kind of the stigma that society puts on community college. But I think California has a really good way of making it so that all of us can access community college. And so I do think that because of the

01:15

Speaker A

Like I do other things besides just like give in to like this call to just just sit and focus on on something that you would not have thought of yourself.

01:27

Speaker A

have to put in my body to function properly at school. I think sometimes it feels like it doesn't um reflect the wage that I'm going to get once I graduate.

01:38

Speaker A

[Music] College is no longer worth the cost of tuition. Like the college that I go to, I think is like an institution that costs a lot of money. And so I think sometimes I'm very, I regret not pursuing the community

01:49

Speaker A

know I could buy a new iPhone for every day that I'm here that is insane number to me and you know often times I think like education and you know information is more public than ever you know there's more news articles

02:00

Speaker A

college route because of kind of the stigma that society puts on community college. But I think California has a really good way of making it so that all of us can access community college. And so I do think that because of the

02:12

Speaker A

something that um you know attending school does give you that you have that shared bond with someone else you know um I will always have the Trojan family on my side in some regards um but I feel like the education itself I think about

02:24

Speaker A

university I go to, I feel like sometimes it's not worth all the money that I'm putting into it when it comes to like not just tuition but like room and board and then all these textbooks that I have to buy and then the food I

02:39

Speaker A

of other administrative fees, a lot of well let's add all these amenities, let's add all these other things that I'm just like we're just we're just students trying to get some good learning, some critical thinking. Do I think professors like a

02:53

Speaker A

have to put in my body to function properly at school. I think sometimes it feels like it doesn't, um, reflect the wage that I'm going to get once I graduate.

02:58

Speaker A

we're bringing in the facilitation of that knowledge um and also the librarians and all these things and I know there's a lot of administration that is involved behind the scenes um but I think as you're thinking about well what will my salary be after this

03:12

Speaker A

Yeah. Yeah. So, I go to a very expensive private school and so, um, I think about that number a lot, especially like the cost per day and so I like, I think I broke it down once and it's like you

03:25

Speaker A

that money get some like financial skills together. Um, do I also think like the opportunities and the network that you're talking about are so much more vast and different than you cobbling together, which is what I did.

03:37

Speaker A

know, I could buy a new iPhone for every day that I'm here. That is an insane number to me and, you know, oftentimes I think like education and, you know, information is more public than ever. You know, there's more news articles.

03:46

Speaker A

Did I learn amazing skills during that time that brought me to other opportunities that if I didn't do that and grad school and undergrad?" 100%.

03:59

Speaker A

It's not necessarily that universities are these, you know, um, you know, gatekeepers of knowledge as they maybe once were. And so I feel like, um, I think about that a lot that you, I do have access to an alumni network and that's

04:13

Speaker A

if we think about it only in terms of my value in the labor force well my institution for example has found that we really do have a really high ROI why for our students but I teach at a community college which I

04:28

Speaker A

something that, um, you know, attending school does give you, that you have that shared bond with someone else, you know. Um, I will always have the Trojan family on my side in some regards, um, but I feel like the education itself, I think about

04:41

Speaker A

worked so hard for you to come here you're going to go to a 4-year institution that's so interesting there is so much more that you gain from going through higher ed pursuits apart from just your degree And part of that is learning

04:57

Speaker A

that cost of attendance, um, every single day that I'm at school. Yeah. Yeah. I agree with you all completely. I took that really non-traditional path and student loans were the big deterrent for me and I think there, there's a lot

05:12

Speaker A

You know, it won't happen. So, we would stay within the confines of the birds of a feather effect and all of that. And unfortunately that does end up affecting the way we think, the way we buy, the way we vote

05:28

Speaker A

of other administrative fees, a lot of, well, let's add all these amenities, let's add all these other things that I'm just like, we're just, we're just students trying to get some good learning, some critical thinking. Do I think professors like a

05:44

Speaker A

about your value as a human and your ability to think critically, reflect, engage in discussion, learn how to manage time, learn about yourself as you are a student and all of that, I still think college is worth it. you know,

06:00

Speaker A

lot of that should maybe go to the prof? Yes, 'cause we are bringing in the passion.

06:18

Speaker A

and the more education you have, the truer that is. Um, but I do see the drawbacks to it. Um, I think they should be discussed.

06:27

Speaker A

We're bringing in the facilitation of that knowledge, um, and also the librarians and all these things and I know there's a lot of administration that is involved behind the scenes, um, but I think as you're thinking about, well, what will my salary be after this,

06:33

Speaker A

No. And I think that it's fair to say that it needs to be said. Um, I think people like me who have been out of college for a while, out of graduate school for a while, have to turn around and tell people it's

06:45

Speaker A

especially for a lot of fields, um, is really hard, especially like first-gen student or like that's the most amount of money I've ever seen, which is why I'm a big proponent of like take a gap year, figure out some stuff and then invest

06:56

Speaker A

Um, families that can't afford to go uh to have children go to college is another terrible thing. The fact that there should be more grants and scholarships available to people who want to go to school and federal student

07:08

Speaker A

that money, get some like financial skills together. Um, do I also think like the opportunities and the network that you're talking about are so much more vast and different than you cobbling together, which is what I did.

07:21

Speaker A

disagree. Yeah. Um I just want to say that I kind of was torn between if I agree or disagree just because um I used to get FAFSA. So my tuition was fully paid for when I was at community college and like half the time

07:31

Speaker A

Um, I was like, "Wo, this is a cheat code." After I got my undergrad, after I got my grad, I was like, "Oh, wow. I hustled for so many years.

07:37

Speaker A

So my dad has been helping me pay my tuition. And it's kind of like made me sit and be like, is this really worth it? Because like I guess before when I didn't have to worry about tuition being

07:45

Speaker A

Did I learn amazing skills during that time that brought me to other opportunities that if I didn't do that and grad school and undergrad?" 100%.

07:52

Speaker A

literally pay $4,000 one semester for me to go to school. I just I just sit with that. And then also there's like small things, right? Like uh tuition does go up. My professors don't they're their pay doesn't go up. So I wonder like

08:04

Speaker A

So many times it has. At the end of the day, there's a couple things I want to bring up first when it comes to return on investment. We have to really think about how do we define that return.

08:10

Speaker A

I really don't even know. So, I think those things make me like wonder, okay, yes, I do believe that me going to school is going to open options for me.

08:17

Speaker A

If we think about it only in terms of my value in the labor force, well, my institution, for example, has found that we really do have a really high ROI. Why? For our students. But I teach at a community college, which I

08:26

Speaker A

rates have went up. I have like peers that don't even park on campus. They park 40 minutes walking away to get to campus because they don't have $300 to pay on top of their $4,000 tuition on top of

08:35

Speaker A

didn't know there was a stigma, but that's as soon as you said stigma, we looked at each other like, yeah, do you know about this? I'm an immigrant. My mom is an immigrant. She did not want me to go. She was not, she was like, I,

08:43

Speaker A

how the system is, but I can still be in it. Like I'm still going to go get my I'm still going to go to grad school, things like that, but I can still talk about how I don't think the prices are

08:50

Speaker A

worked so hard for you to come here. You're going to go to a 4-year institution. That's so interesting. There is so much more that you gain from going through higher ed pursuits apart from just your degree. And part of that is learning

09:00

Speaker A

How do you guys think you're going to do? We'll find out. Here comes your first excerpt of text.

09:23

Speaker A

about work ethic. It's learning about time management. It's learning about how to navigate conversations with people that you might wholeheartedly disagree with, which outside of this classroom, if I gave you that choice, how many of you would sign up for a jubilee thing?

09:31

Speaker A

Yeah. Oo. Mhm. I think for me it comes down into like investigating different pieces of the writing. Like the phrase short circuit sticks out to me as something that I think AI would use a little bit more.

09:41

Speaker A

You know, it won't happen. So, we would stay within the confines of the birds of a feather effect and all of that. And unfortunately, that does end up affecting the way we think, the way we buy, the way we vote

09:51

Speaker A

of the terminology isn't quite human that I would expect. Well said. Yeah. The irony is it was the last part that gave me my clue. It says uh to create original ideas rather than just repeating information. That last part

10:05

Speaker A

and all of that. And studies have shown that the more educated you are, the more that gets impacted as well. So if we're just thinking about your value as an employee, I would disagree and say college is still worth it. If we think

10:14

Speaker A

All right, we'll see. Okay, turns out this was AI generated. Yes. Oh, no. I thought I did. I thought I did. I thought I got it right. Here's your next one.

10:31

Speaker A

about your value as a human and your ability to think critically, reflect, engage in discussion, learn how to manage time, learn about yourself as you are a student and all of that, I still think college is worth it. You know,

10:43

Speaker A

No. Tell me why. So, I think what makes me believe this is not AI is there's not an Oxford comma. I think that is a very stylistic choice. And so, I think that indicates something human about it. Um, I'll say

10:55

Speaker A

people who graduate, and it's true, it doesn't guarantee you a well-paying job, doesn't guarantee you employment, doesn't guarantee much of anything, even though studies do support, and these are credible ones, uh, studies do support that it improves the quality of life,

11:02

Speaker A

I also got bored by the time I got to the first one. And AI AI usually bores me. AI is making very mechanical writing. And every time a student writes, you can tell that there's more natural pauses like in their own thought

11:16

Speaker A

and the more education you have, the truer that is. Um, but I do see the drawbacks to it. Um, I think they should be discussed.

11:29

Speaker A

the problem with chat GPT is that it takes the identity out of it or and anything that makes us us is taken out of it and it's this incredibly neutral to the point of not standing for anything statement. So I

11:43

Speaker A

And again, even though college tuition has gone up, I don't think the quality of education has gone up with it.

11:58

Speaker A

Were they trying to mimic AI type of writing? Right out of my mouth. We're starting to write more like AI because we're seeing it all around us.

12:07

Speaker A

No. And I think that it's fair to say that it needs to be said. Um, I think people like me who have been out of college for a while, out of graduate school for a while, have to turn around and tell people it's

12:33

Speaker A

It seemed to incorporate a lot of information very succinctly and densely. Um, so it just seemed like that whole list thing like there was actually multiple lists in this one. Um, it was convincing. It actually didn't bore me because it

12:49

Speaker A

true. This is what's happening. And it's true. It's okay for people to be critical of it. And it's true for us to actually call it what it is. Student loan debt is a terrible thing.

12:54

Speaker A

I feel like this is something like along the lines of something I would write cuz I love to use a rather to like contrast what I said before and then like the collaborative transparent culture like just these words seem like something I've said or

13:06

Speaker A

Um, families that can't afford to go, uh, to have children go to college is another terrible thing. The fact that there should be more grants and scholarships available to people who want to go to school and federal student

13:10

Speaker A

Huh. Yeah. Okay. We tricked you a little bit. This is a mix of human and AI.

13:18

Speaker A

loans need to either be forgiven or at least, you know, people should get help paying for them for God's sake. You know, I mean, all these things, they do need to change. And I think that, you know, um, I didn't wholeheartedly

13:32

Speaker A

I think AI you know is reading over and can pick up on those things. And so especially when our grades are you know based on you know how many you know spelling errors you have I feel like there's an incentive to use AI to catch

13:42

Speaker A

disagree. Yeah. Um, I just want to say that I kind of was torn between if I agree or disagree just because, um, I used to get FAFSA. So my tuition was fully paid for when I was at community college and like half the time

13:49

Speaker A

That's actually super interesting. In one of my classes, I actually tell the students straight up that they can use AI for purposes like that where I say, you know, I don't want, you know, I want their ideas to come across. It's a

13:59

Speaker A

at Cal State Long Beach as well. Um, just this last semester, my FAFSA got cut off. So I've had to pay out of pocket.

14:09

Speaker A

Yeah. Vilifying it completely isn't the way to go. We've already opened up Pandora's box.

14:15

Speaker A

So my dad has been helping me pay my tuition. And it's kind of like made me sit and be like, is this really worth it? Because like I guess before when I didn't have to worry about tuition being

14:33

Speaker A

I don't think that it can be true as a blanket statement that it's always destroying students ability to think for themselves. Um I think if you're using it solely as the basis to like start or to get your ideas then yes like if

14:45

Speaker A

paid, like it was paid by the state or whatever, I was kind of, it was kind of like a thought that was kind of far away. But now knowing that my dad goes to work every single day and he has to

14:53

Speaker A

for me personally, I'll use it to guide me in a sense like or like recently I've been using it to help me like grasp a concept. So, then I can like actually write what I'm going to write. So, in

15:01

Speaker A

literally pay $4,000 one semester for me to go to school, I just, I just sit with that. And then also there's like small things, right? Like, uh, tuition does go up. My professors don't, their pay doesn't go up. So I wonder like,

15:06

Speaker A

Like it's really up to you. Like we're kind of responsible for how we use it and then the outcome is based on us. So, that's how I feel about that.

15:13

Speaker A

like I, I just wonder like where's that money going? Like are we being

15:27

Speaker A

something or like put something in there real quick. Um so I think it's a beneficial tool in that way. However, I think especially after co um I've been seeing kind of a decline in these critical thinking skills and I've been

15:41

Speaker A

seeing more of a reliance on like emotional responses even in discussions in class and things like that. So then when we're using chat GPT to create more of that bias or these echo effects from the algorithm, I'm like, I don't know if

15:56

Speaker A

this is the best. And I think that what you said about responsibility and like that discernment is key. So how can we start having that discussion about critical thinking with the use of chat, how can we cultivate responsibility with

16:08

Speaker A

the use of this really amazing tool, right? Yeah. I don't Yeah, I don't think it has to be that way. I think maybe because we're in like the beginnings of using chat GBT that we're kind of like new to

16:20

Speaker A

kind of like a baby like with a toy like we're just using it for everything right now. And I do think that could be like a slippery slope to us losing our critical thinking skills. And I think about like

16:29

Speaker A

when I'm in class and I have like my classmates chat gptting things that I feel like we could freely speak about like just from our own dome and just speak about how we feel. And I do think it's

16:40

Speaker A

it's limiting critical thinking skills, but I do think it's like a byproduct of the fact that I think the educational system also doesn't encourage us to critically think, just to get a grade.

16:50

Speaker A

Let's say from just an instructor, professor's point of view, you want the students to be able to generate information on their own and not depend on technology.

17:03

Speaker A

Um, I guess, you know, library research is a lost art in many ways. I do think that people's approaches to how we gather information, they've changed a lot.

17:14

Speaker A

And I think that the more students rely on chat GPT, the less likely it is that they're actually gleaning information and more likely that they're just getting it from somewhere. It doesn't even need to be fact checked or

17:26

Speaker A

anything. It could just be used and that's probably happening more and more often. So I do think that the ability to not only gather information but to fact check it, I think that's somehow gotten lost with this chat GPT

17:40

Speaker A

thing. I mean just to add some hope to like this whole narrative of that we don't go to libraries which I think is very true.

17:46

Speaker A

It's it's like dwindling but like I'm in a research class right now and like our professor has like guided us like we have to use a library to find our sources. Like we already talked to a librarian that came to our

17:55

Speaker A

class to like help us. So like it's still very much real if also I think it's not just like the students responsibility to like help us but also professors like our professors definitely lay out the rule like hey you

18:06

Speaker A

know you can use AI it's there we're not going to deny the fact that it's there but like don't use it to formulate your ideas you can use it as a guide to check grammar to check maybe like an outline

18:13

Speaker A

something like that but like don't go further than that so I definitely think it does help when the school as well is aware of how AI affects people so like like I said having us be kind of forced

18:23

Speaker A

to use libraries that helps like now we have to talk about Now we have to go find a librarian. Now we have to really like get into it how we used to have to.

18:30

Speaker A

So I think that's super super beneficial if you look at it like that. Do you guys think that it's possible to use AI like ethically in school?

18:37

Speaker A

It's possible. I think anything can be used ethically. If students need to figure out how to format their writing for instance in an English class or if you're trying to get background information that's kind of like a Wikipedia search.

18:55

Speaker A

uh then yeah, that's suitable. You know, you just are just starting out, you know, and it's possible you're going to end up with a subject matter that you know next to nothing about.

19:07

Speaker A

I think like I think the same way we demonize Wikipedia a lot, I think AI can be used in a similar manner of where it helps you with the initial like brainstorm by offering you the resources that you can then like look at and read

19:20

Speaker A

the same way that like a Wikipedia page has the resources they use. And so I feel like it could be a step towards the critical thinking where maybe you don't have like the access to like go and spend the time taking all of like all

19:35

Speaker A

the books and all the resources. I do think it's good as like a onestop shop to lead you to critically think.

19:40

Speaker A

Yeah, those critical thinking skills we can gather things critically with that support from the university from our professors. And I think creating these expectations at the beginning of class of like, oh, how have you guys been using chat GPT? Has this been helpful?

19:54

Speaker A

Has that not been helpful? What can we all agree on together? Cuz I love creating uh living syllabi together with students because you guys are there to learn and I'm here to facilitate that learning.

20:09

Speaker A

So using chat GPT to organize those brainstorms together, I think is a great starting point. And then I love to have one-on-one conversations with the students being like, "So, what have you found out?

20:19

Speaker A

Okay, how do we put this together? Is that exciting for you?" I'm like, "If it's not exciting or it's not bringing curiosity, then what are we even doing?" Right. Yeah.

20:29

Speaker A

How many of you students like to critically think right experience in my classroom, right?

20:35

Speaker A

So, I think you have the ones that have spoken already, you've articulated you don't want it to take away your critical thinking. And in my classes, the students are there. They want to learn how to critically think.

20:46

Speaker A

And I've actually done some reflective assignments with my students on AI where they've voiced exactly the same kind of things you've said. They talk about how they use it as a tool. They talk about the slippery slope and they realize that if they overrely

20:58

Speaker A

on it, it will take that away and they they really do want to preserve that aspect of themselves. That's what they're there to learn.

21:06

Speaker A

Um now, are there some students that just show up and somebody else wants to be them there, wants them to be there?

21:12

Speaker A

Sure, but that's not the majority of students, not the ones I see. I do believe that with AI, it's a whole new type of digital literacy.

21:23

Speaker A

And I agree with you that most of the time in my interaction with students, they have a desire to critically think and they use it more often than not as a tool to facilitate their their inquiries.

21:38

Speaker A

In most ways, AI has helped facilitate the knowledge that they have access to. Now, have I seen it used uh correctly and incorrectly? Yes, correctly. I've seen it from the undergraduate level all the way with my peers in the doctoral

21:54

Speaker A

level where before they used to teach you all of this really sophisticated software of SPSS and Strata, all of these things. And now I can take all of my survey data, plug it into Chat GPT, and say, "Make me a scatter plot, make

22:10

Speaker A

me this." and it can spit it out. So knowledge production is so much faster.

22:15

Speaker A

Now, however, to the same degree, can someone go into an AI search tool or software and say, "What are the negative effects of whatever and get the echo chamber that you were speaking of?" Absolutely.

22:31

Speaker A

But I would argue if someone's going into AI technology with that sort of intention, critical thinking was dead a long time ago for that person. But I I strongly believe that it is it is a whole new platform of finding primary,

22:49

Speaker A

secondary and tertiary sources. And now critical thinking falls a little bit heavier on now you look at the ethics of this information. Now you fact check that information because your credibility relies on the sources that you site. Yeah.

23:06

Speaker A

Mhm. Do So, do you guys think that schools are preparing students for an AI workforce? I definitely think that schools are doing a better job at preparing us for an AI enabled workforce. I think when I first entered college, the answer was no.

23:19

Speaker A

Don't use AI anything. It's a straight out stuff like that. Um, but all of my classes have began to lean into it. You can use AI in a responsible manner. And I think that's what I'm seeing like in

23:29

Speaker A

my internships. Like every internship I've had is like, oh, use AI can speed it up. that email that you had spent 5 minutes on before, just write it with AI. It's a lot faster. And so I think you have to enable students to use AI in

23:41

Speaker A

a responsible manner. And I think that's ultimately what we're seeing in the workforce. And so I think classes should adopt that same policy.

23:47

Speaker A

Okay. I think what you're describing too is it's almost like a calculator, right? So we all we all learn how to do arithmetic, addition subtraction multiplication, division, and you didn't get to use the calculator. But then what fourth grade? Something like that. Yeah,

24:02

Speaker A

they give you a calculator, you're like, "Oh my god, my world has changed." But I think what you're describing is the efficiency that comes with that. We use the calculators. And I think that if the students aren't prepared to be

24:13

Speaker A

working in that AI environment, then they'll fall behind because their peers are using it. And it's not that you can't critically think, but it's just another tool that you're able to use that makes you more valuable as an employee. And at my

24:25

Speaker A

college, we actually have a course, problem solving with artificial intelligence. My little school has that. I'm sure the big ones do, too.

24:35

Speaker A

I actually I want to bring up this calculator reference cuz I hear it. If I had a dollar for every time I had this calculator reference, the reason why I dislike that reference so much is because the calculator doesn't have the

24:50

Speaker A

potential to create as significant of a consequence in our societies as we've seen AI, right? And I'm not going to dive too far into that, but what I mean, you all understand what I mean. The the magnitude of the impact that AI can

25:06

Speaker A

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25:19

Speaker A

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25:34

Speaker A

and staring at a blank page. It shapes my ideas into coherent arguments without replacing them. It fills the gaps, keeps my writing authentic, and makes writing essays more fun. GBT0 is one of the AI tools used by more than 10 million

25:47

Speaker A

teachers and students around the world. They are also the official AI detector partners of the American Federation of Teachers. If you're using AI, use a tool millions of teachers trust. Check out the link in our description and redeem

25:58

Speaker A

code Jubilee for 30% off GBT0ero. Now, let's get back to middle ground. College students today are lazier than past generations.

26:10

Speaker A

Okay, can everybody step forward? That was interesting. That was interesting. How often does that happen?

26:23

Speaker A

First of all, we're taught not to be biased when we're in education. Okay. Um, I think blanket statements are very troubling in general. Um, I think accusing people of being lazy is always uh, yeah, it's always dangerous, you know. Um, there's students that have

26:43

Speaker A

a lot of difficulties, first of all, with even getting into college. And um every school I've ever taught in had to serve them.

26:51

Speaker A

Some more than others. And I think it's sad to think that anyone would accuse any of them of being lazy. You know, especially when transportation was already a serious problem for them. And they lived sometimes 40 minutes away

27:03

Speaker A

from school. Mhm. Second of all, you know, first in their family to go to college. Mhm.

27:09

Speaker A

You know, every year I've taught, um, I estimate that it was at least half of the students I had. In some semesters, it was 100% or close to it.

27:20

Speaker A

I think that it's normal for people to be interested in fields, normal for people to not be interested in things. The classes I struggled in, a lot of it was I wasn't interested in it.

27:34

Speaker A

But you know, I don't think I would have taken kindly to people calling me lazy when I was a college student. And um but that conversation was coming up when I was a college student. Um the other thing to say about it is it's not really

27:48

Speaker A

changed over time. It's just a process, you know, and I think it's probably as organic as everything else that's made us human, you know, to go through K through 12, graduate, and go to college after that and then probably pass that.

28:04

Speaker A

You know, I grew up in the South Bay and the culture there was very, very intense. It was very competitive. Um, everyone was kind of like in high school, everyone was like, "Oh, I have a startup already.

28:16

Speaker A

I I'm doing research at this like university already. I'm like cold emailing professors already to do research in high school. And that just creates a very very competitive environment where it's like, oh, I feel like I'm behind. I'm not doing all this. I'm not

28:32

Speaker A

like striving to like continue it. But in another sense, it also creates an environment where you feel a little bit more like motivated to do things, to keep up with your peers, to strive for something greater. When you surround

28:44

Speaker A

yourself with people who are like they tell you about these opportunities, you join clubs that they provide you with these opportunities. I feel like that gives you it's very motivating because you can get ahead. You can go pursue

28:55

Speaker A

things that you're very interested in even before you get to college. When I came to college, I was actually able to get into a research lab because I knew to cold email professors from high school experience. And I think without

29:08

Speaker A

those resources, I wouldn't have any idea how to do like any of this at all.

29:13

Speaker A

And I think what you're hitting on is engagement. I heard that from both of you actually. And I think engagement or a lack of engagement can sometimes be confused with laziness because we as a professor see somebody who's not engaging. But I think also

29:27

Speaker A

it's not just the students. I mean it could be a class that you're taking. You may just be taking it for your major. uh like I teach microbiology and on day one I ask them what do you know what are you

29:36

Speaker A

guys here for why are you in this class for my major okay that's a great starting point and I know that's going to be the answer but then my goal as a professor is by the time they're done with that class for

29:48

Speaker A

them to say I really enjoyed this and that's usually where I get with most of them similarly one of the classes that I teach and have taught over the past 12 years pretty often is public speaking and look it's

30:02

Speaker A

like trauma. Um, and very rarely do I have a student that says, "I I would love to take this class because I want to learn to deliver my thoughts in a coherent and articulate manner and all of that."

30:17

Speaker A

Glossophobia, the fear of public speaking, is such a high social anxiety. And to that effect, you know, it's about stimulating their thinking and and engaging and letting them have a paradigm shift of certain subjects in ways that they may

30:37

Speaker A

not have thought it. Does that mean that they're lazy if they're not excited about the subject? No. It just means that we have to figure out a way to shift the curriculum. Um, and also frame it in a way of listen, it's not always

30:48

Speaker A

about the end product. It's about the process. It's about the work ethic. It's about the little things you learn along the way. One of the things that we need to check is our level of privilege when we make those sorts of judgments on

31:00

Speaker A

people if they're lazy or entitled or they think this is going to be handed to them because we don't know what their story is when they come into our classroom. We don't know what their days, you know, and that's one of the reasons I went

31:11

Speaker A

into community college was because it was always a reality check for me like what my students come with.

31:18

Speaker A

Yeah. And often I saw more of myself than anything else. And both my wife and I are not from here. We're both immigrants and our house is a very like interthnic intercultural household. So this is one of the things that really

31:33

Speaker A

bound us was this passing of judgment. And what a detriment that can have when it's like you have no idea the privileged lens through which you are evaluating me.

31:43

Speaker A

Mhm. And that was one of my big things in becoming a professor was no matter what if you come into my classroom that doesn't happen. If you are being lazy, you'll get called out as lazy. But by the time that comes up,

31:59

Speaker A

there is so much other discussion. Yeah. There's so much other also like reflection of as a professor, why did I assign this?

32:08

Speaker A

What was the purpose of this assignment? Yeah. you know, and that requires you to also have kind of like an existential thing of who am I as a professor, grades, am I doing this because my department wants me to, you know, all of

32:21

Speaker A

these other things. But I just really I appreciated that story that you had because it's really important to shed light on one side to then also be able to reflect on the other sides and all the sides and positionalities in

32:33

Speaker A

between. Yeah. I don't I don't think we're lazy at all. I think a lot of us are very overwhelmed and I think it's the same for professors too. I think like society there's like I don't know I think there's like an

32:45

Speaker A

issue of like all of us being overworked and underpaid. And so I think in college that's happening. We're like we're overworked and none of us know if we're actually going to use our degree once we graduate or if we just spent all

32:57

Speaker A

this money and now we're in debt and now I'm going to still go have a job as a barista. And so I think that like sort of sentiment makes some of us not feel like it's worth it a little bit. And so I don't

33:10

Speaker A

Yeah, I don't think any of us are lazy. I think we're just overworked and there's like a lot of things society too and like politically that are happening that are like over stimulating and it's kind of like where

33:19

Speaker A

do you even what do you do first? Like should I focus on school or should I focus on like actually saving our country and like focus on like the politics that are going on in this world? So I think it's

33:29

Speaker A

a it's a lot. at the end of my freshman year, um I think we saw at the end of 2024 a lot of encampments on um college campuses and I go to an institution in which LAPD was um you know on campus

33:41

Speaker A

breaking those up and so I think especially during that final season it was really hard for me to engage like I was worried about if my classmates were going to get arrested and so like I'll straight up say like my finals that

33:52

Speaker A

semester were not that great because I was worried about like the safety of the people around me and so I think we are so like politics are so in our faces to students and I couldn't even imagine what it's like right now to feel like

34:03

Speaker A

you know is my visa going to get revoked like those students cannot even like engage in class because I would worry for my safety and so I feel like politics more than anything or in the face of students and detracting from our

34:14

Speaker A

learning more than ever the current education system prepares students for the future I feel like yes, it does prepare us for the future just because I mean that's why I'm there. It's to I'm I'm thinking about the hope of my future, right? I'm

34:36

Speaker A

there to give myself a better future. Um I do think it can be subjective though.

34:41

Speaker A

Like I think the major I'm in, my professors are definitely preparing me for the future. Like to be able to go into the world and apply what I've been learning. Yes, I'm going there to like think about the jobs, but like what if

34:50

Speaker A

we take the job outcome out of it? Like I think I'm just going to be a better person in general. So like yeah, I'm going to be a better person to my kids, my family, the people around me. I'm

34:58

Speaker A

already like sharing my knowledge. So like I'm already like helping the future and for other people and myself.

35:02

Speaker A

So I'm already there. Um I was involved in re-imagining a degree we have at my college. So we made three new courses that I was involved in making.

35:13

Speaker A

So it's not necessarily that we're always right on top of it. We might be a little bit slow to change, but we are consulting with outside people. As a two-year school, we talk to the four-year schools.

35:24

Speaker A

Yeah. Yeah. Most schools are probably talking to employers to find out what skills the employers are looking for.

35:29

Speaker A

So, we're doing our best that we hit the mark all the time. Uh probably not, but I think we're doing a pretty good job.

35:35

Speaker A

Yeah. Feel like a lot of jobs that used to be there for people are disappearing or have disappeared already. And I just I'm concerned. I'm I'm a parent. Mhm.

35:46

Speaker A

My daughter is in her last year of high school. I'm concerned about her future. And um just knowing that jobs pay less than they used to, but the cost of living's gone way up. Uh the cost of housing in

36:00

Speaker A

California is ridiculous. Same. Yeah. And uh the cost of food keeps going up. The cost of utilities keeps going up.

36:08

Speaker A

Every cost keeps going up. And um at the same time, I don't think our infrastructure is improving well enough to accommodate young people getting into the workforce. It's it's our fault.

36:21

Speaker A

People like me, people that are older than me, people that are retiring. Um yeah, and that's the concern I have, the biggest concern I have. It's not really related to education at all. I do think that all of that is true and I

36:36

Speaker A

think all of you feel that and I see the optimism and the social impact that your generation is doing that is really inspiring for me as a burntout millennial that was like the future and entrepreneurship and you know

36:55

Speaker A

the social skills the soft skills that you all are bringing into this new workforce future societ society, all the above. Um I think is going to be a really creative uh landscape, creative solutions that you all are coming in at

37:11

Speaker A

a very different emotional awareness level about the problems that we have in society. Not that I'm putting more pressure on you guys, but working all together about that and getting the knowledge from professors, from the libraries, and looking at

37:26

Speaker A

history, seeing like what has worked, what can we do that's different. Don't be scared.

37:34

Speaker A

Okay. No. Um, I think I want to like start by saying that I don't I don't believe that my personal experience is going to ever like defy a general statistic, but I do personally feel that I know I have a lot

37:49

Speaker A

of friends and family that aren't college educated that are very very well-rounded individuals because of their travel, because of the culture they come from. I don't think education or like being a well-rounded person always has to come from like this sort

38:01

Speaker A

of western education. And so I I know a lot of people at my school that I would not call well-rounded people probably because of the school I go to that we exist in a vacuum I think and all of us

38:11

Speaker A

are uh are amplifying each other's ideas. And I also think that I guess maybe I thought of the question not as just higher education but like the general American education system does it prepare us for the future? Sure. And I

38:24

Speaker A

was thinking about people that don't make it to higher education when I was thinking about the question that I think that the American education system does prepare black and brown people to go to jail. I don't think it prepares us to

38:36

Speaker A

even pursue higher education. I feel like there's definitely like a barrier where when you're in school, you don't have access to the same AP classes depending on where your school is located. You don't have the same textbooks. You don't have the same

38:47

Speaker A

teachers that have the same salary to have the same passion to teach you. And I think that often times these students don't um have the the uh environment to even do well in school. And I think it does lead to you doing sort of bad

39:05

Speaker A

behavior to put you in jail minus the fact that I think the school system is set up to where you have a kind of prison system where you have teachers that behave as wardens and you have a school bell that's going to ring every

39:17

Speaker A

couple hours for you to go to lunch for 30 minutes to go back to class. And I do think it sets you up to either go to jail or to become an employee. And so I think but I think that's very specific

39:27

Speaker A

to like black and brown people in this country. And so I was just thinking about the education system as a whole.

39:34

Speaker A

But I think before we even go to higher education, there's definitely like a a barrier. And even so, like even for the student that does do really really well and somehow like that black student that does surpass all of these barriers

39:46

Speaker A

within um like uh high school and junior high, I think when you then get accepted into these schools, at least in my experience, it was like I could not afford to go to these schools. Like I literally could not regardless of the

39:57

Speaker A

GPA, I worked so hard to get, I couldn't afford to go to this prestigious school I really wanted to go to. I felt like I really worked hard for. And so I don't know if I think our current education

40:07

Speaker A

system sets us all up for the future that we want. Maybe the future that society wants to put us in.

40:13

Speaker A

That's so I'm just thinking of like a real experience cuz what you just said about how like you get accepted say like you're a black student or something. You have these barriers already in place.

40:21

Speaker A

You get accepted. Like my home girl, she got accepted to NYU. Super happy for her. She's she was ecstatic, right? She wanted to go there for so long. She got accepted for her master's program. She doesn't have housing. She doesn't have a

40:30

Speaker A

way to pay for the school. She has been like just scrambling, making GoFundMes, trying to figure out a way to get to New York, a way to just make ends meet. So that really spoke to me because I was

40:39

Speaker A

like, damn, that's sort my homework. One of my best friends literally cannot go to NYU cuz she doesn't have the finances. So she's taking care of her mother, her sister, like she's their caregiver. She can't go.

40:48

Speaker A

So it's like, what do you do at that point? She's still working, you know what I mean? Like minimum wage job trying to make it work, but she has the ability, all the capabilities to do it, but she just can't go because of money.

40:57

Speaker A

So it's like, what do you So is it preparing us for the future sometime?

41:01

Speaker A

It really depends. Some people know. It's really not. It's kind of like the ethos in America is you have to go to college, whether it's community college or four-ear college. And it's kind of like that's where the conversation starts. But

41:12

Speaker A

that's not always the case. Well, my brother did not finish college. He's doing very well for himself.

41:18

Speaker A

And it's still you still gain those experiences in life that you don't actually you don't need college for. I just kind of think of it like an accelerant where it's g like you know you're going to be exposed to those things or you

41:29

Speaker A

could reasonably expect to be exposed to them in college but if you navigate life without it you can still be very successful.

41:36

Speaker A

I don't think college like gives you these gifts. Like I think that I was talented and then I went to college.

41:41

Speaker A

It's not that college made me talented. Like it's a confirmation in some regards. And so I think it's important to recognize that and like I think many of you have referenced I feel like college is not the path for everyone.

41:51

Speaker A

Um, like my older brother went off to a 4-year university and he ended up failing out. He's still highly successful now. He's a firefighter paramedic. Like he pivoted and I think he's extremely intelligent, but college wasn't him for him then at that point.

42:04

Speaker A

And so I feel like it's important to recognize that college isn't for everyone. You can be successful without it. Um, and I think students need to recognize that it's okay to pivot.

42:12

Speaker A

And I think too being a community college, we see a lot of adult learners.

42:16

Speaker A

At least at mine, we do. So I also want to add my adult students.

42:19

Speaker A

It might not be for everybody but it also might not be for you at that time.

42:23

Speaker A

Yes% that part. I just want to give testimony. My dad got his PhD and he's 68.

42:29

Speaker A

So like so like there's no timeline. It's really like that's like a madeup thing as well.

42:35

Speaker A

Like there's a timeline you got to go high school. No I don't like even after I graduate now I want to take a gap year just to or gap years. I don't know how long but I don't think I have to be

42:43

Speaker A

rushed into like the next step cuz who made that up and why do I have to follow that? Like that's made up. We don't have to be overworked. Like I have agency to not be over. What if I want to chill?

42:52

Speaker A

What if I want to sit with the knowledge that I've got and just let it let it marinate in my mind. Like I can do that.

42:56

Speaker A

So like really seeing what my dad has done in my family like it doesn't even my mom she went to go get her bachelors at 40 40 some 50ome. I think 50 some 50 some but like just shows there's no age.

43:06

Speaker A

There's no timeline at all. So for sure. Yeah. Colleges don't care about student mental health.

43:19

Speaker A

Hi. I'm torn. I think when we're talking about schools, I do not think that they do they do not care for students mental health. I'll say it like point blank period. They do not. And I think what informs my opinion on this is I think

43:37

Speaker A

when I hear the word schools, I think of the institution and the institution does not care for us. We are paying to be there. We are just a payroll to them. I think like professors on an individual level do care for students. You know us,

43:49

Speaker A

you know that we're stressed. You know that we're whole entire people. But I think when I think of universities, colleges, and all that, there's so much administration. And I think at the end of the day, they don't care if I'm

44:00

Speaker A

having a good time or they're just worried if I'm paying tuition or not. And so, yeah, I'm a number on a paper to an institution at the end of the day.

44:08

Speaker A

Yeah, you literally took the words out of my mouth. That's why I was hesitant because I was like, "No, all these professors over here do care about my mental health." And I was like, I the professors aren't the institution

44:18

Speaker A

and I don't think they care about my mental health. If I was to say that I could not pay for tuition because I'm not having a good month mentally, I would get kicked out of school. So, I don't think that they Yeah, I think you

44:31

Speaker A

are definitely like incredibly correct about that. Yeah, I think as you were talking about like symbolically the institution um and I think also the more prestigious the institution um there are different pressures there are different um hoops to jump through.

44:49

Speaker A

I do see smaller universities that are and it may be biased as a counseling university that there are accommodations that there are talks of disability that there are talks about systemic oppression but my experience has been kind of the a little bit like that's the

45:07

Speaker A

exception. Um, and seeing the more prestigious spaces where I have been, the amount of just the normalization of suicide attempts during finals week is atrocious. Um, that I've had even colleagues that went to these institutions and they're like, I had to

45:24

Speaker A

drop out because it's I needed a month off. This is just too much. Then to mention any vulnerability is is considered a weakness.

45:32

Speaker A

And to not get a good grade or you're missing an assignment is considered a weakness. So when we're talking about like the other things of are our institutions setting us up for the workforce like what kind of workforce

45:44

Speaker A

are we setting ourselves up for? Right? Is startup culture the norm? You know um that's a lot of really problematic thing. Do we do we want some pressure? Right. So we can grow yes but not so we break.

45:57

Speaker A

Just to add to that I did come a little bit late just cuz I was kind of conflicted um after I heard what you said. I definitely came over here thinking of like the institution as like a system. No, I don't think it's worried

46:07

Speaker A

about how we feel. And it's No, it's not. It's not worried about that. And something that like just been sticking out in my head is like I think two semesters ago, um it was like so I'm in a semester based like type of school. So

46:17

Speaker A

Cal State Long Beach, we have a semester system, so it's 16 weeks. And I remember like two semesters ago, I was like, dang. Like it was like week 13 or something. I was like, we're not done.

46:24

Speaker A

Like this just feels so long. And it's like who made that system? So my my point is I feel like like how you're saying that we we can be challenged. I want to be challenged. I want to be

46:34

Speaker A

pushed, but I don't want to break. I feel like by week 16, I'm broken. So, it's like something as small as like maybe instead of having 16 weeks, can we have 12? Like to make it more manageable for manageable for people. Like instead

46:44

Speaker A

of just being so overworked. So, that really spoke to me everything y'all said cuz like I literally feel that. I literally asked myself, why am I still here after 4 months of being here every single week, no breaks, like I'm tired,

46:53

Speaker A

I'm broken, like I like I'm smart, I got it, I understand all the concepts. Why am I still here?

46:58

Speaker A

So, that's that's how I feel literally. I just I I think that the education system also doesn't really care about the mental health of professors either.

47:05

Speaker A

Like at least specifically like speaking to my institution and what they've done recently with our teachers union, I think they do not care about anyone's mental health, I think really like financial gain is their main priority. And so that's definitely led

47:22

Speaker A

me to stepping. I feel like this was the best ad campaign for community colleges.

47:33

Speaker A

I have to say I I've taught at oh god five community colleges. Again this is dependent you know public private that matters. The state matters.

47:46

Speaker A

The culture of the campus and the district it's in matters. All of this is important to research when you're looking for a school to go to. It's not just the program. It's, you know, what culture do I want to be

47:57

Speaker A

embedded in for the next four plus years of my life or however many years you decide to stay there. But I have to say at my school it if there's any I mean I can praise them on many things but one

48:10

Speaker A

of them for sure students first that is literally in our philosophy and the students from the professor to the administration to the staff to our accessibility concerns of students that have any learning needs that need to be met. Um it is like embedded through the

48:28

Speaker A

fiber of the institution. So it very much is in the culture. It's not just isolated in the silos of the particular classrooms in which a student can feel like I'm being heard here.

48:41

Speaker A

So that's why I speaking from my experience I can't say that I I agreed that that schools don't care about mental health. I can't speak on behalf of four years and I definitely cannot speak for anyone outside of LA County. I

48:54

Speaker A

really can't because my positionality doesn't allow me that. I don't have credibility to do so. Um, I think the truth is the resources are pretty they they're they're spread thin.

49:08

Speaker A

They're threadbear. Um, but yes, um, I think that's how schools are. Everybody does their part to make sure that the well-being of the student, including the mental health stuff, uh, is taken seriously. And I think that that's really what I need to tell everybody,

49:25

Speaker A

you know, even based on my own experiences. And I feel like it is important though for it to be talked about more. It's not talked about enough.

49:34

Speaker A

And it is important for us to realize that um mental health, physical health, those kinds of things are things that we need to emphasize more in society in general. But I think schools have a bigger onus to do it than outside

49:49

Speaker A

because schools are insulated from the outside and there's a lot more anxiety producers now including the presence of ice throughout the country.

50:00

Speaker A

And that's affecting neighborhoods that are disproportionately minority and immigrant. Mhm. And it is those kinds of things where yeah, again, universities do they they I think people need to step up. Universities and colleges can step it up a little bit

50:18

Speaker A

more, but I do think that's what's happening. And I do think that people take it seriously. I don't think it's fair to say it's it's not taken seriously. That's my definitely my opinion.

50:29

Speaker A

Yeah. Yeah. And I think that's so important because professors, they are the ones that are seeing the students like on a daily basis. They're like the first line of like they can notice this issue, especially if the student um a lot of

50:43

Speaker A

times they feel ashamed because of society. They feel ashamed that they need to go out and ask for help. They feel like maybe they're a little bit less worthy because they need to go ask for additional help. Um, and I also

50:55

Speaker A

wanted to add on a point about you were talking about um, increasing like education about these issues and I think like recently with our generation that's been really good in the way that social media has allowed a lot more people to

51:08

Speaker A

be like you're able to be so much more aware of these issues that it's become such a problem to be able to get help because they're really it the resources are really spread thin.

51:19

Speaker A

Yeah. I just want to thank everybody. Um, I think this was a unique opportunity.

51:25

Speaker A

Students need to be listened to more. Mhm. And I think this gave us a chance to have that um opportunity that that that networking chance.

51:35

Speaker A

The only thing I would just add is take advantage of office hours. Yeah. I feel like, you know, one of you said, "Oh, my professors are so busy." And yes, we are. But we're in we are professors because we care about our students.

51:51

Speaker A

And every time my office hour is empty, I'm like I I I have to get I have to get more students in here. And and now like the first day class I'm like you guys can come come talk to me about class and

52:00

Speaker A

you could take that to your exam. That's good advice. I was like but come talk to me about anything.

52:05

Speaker A

Come talk to me about your relationships. Come talk to me about your family, what you're happy about, what you're sad about. And I've had students do that. And it's a really like a very humbling experience. And it makes

52:16

Speaker A

me feel like I'm honored that they come to talk to me about those things. Now I say take it with a grain of salt. I'm not an expert. Not like anatomy and physiology everything.

52:27

Speaker A

I'm really impressed by like the like your passion in your work. I wish that all professors could in fact like maybe take a page out of your guys' book because I think my I I wish that the professors at like all of them at my

52:40

Speaker A

school would understand none of us are coming into class with our worst intentions or wanting to disrupt class wanting to not pay attention but that we are like human beings and we all want to learn. Sometimes it's just difficult. So

52:53

Speaker A

I really appreciate what you guys do and I I thank you. Yeah. [Music]

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